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CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 01:45
This article is to visually document on how to install the Mike New Bearing Base Plate into your beloved Technics SL-1200 Mark 2 Turntable. Given that I have twins, I purchased two from Mike. The purpose of this visual article is to give guidance on how to attach the base plate to your TT with very little difficulty. If you have questions about the undertaking of this project, you should always ask for guidance. If there are any conflicts with the answers you get, Mike New (not Mike as in me) has the final say since it is his product.

I take no responsibility on how your project turns out. Unless of course the results are spectacular :eyebrows:, then of course, I take full credit. If you are a DIY'er, you should not have any difficulty, or very little difficulty at most, if you follow the steps outlined.

This document will be broken up into several sections for clarity.

The project took me 3 hours to complete for the first TT, 2 hours for the second. I was not in any hurry to complete the project. Your time may vary.

The tools I used to complete this project is:
Plyers or wrench - have 2 handy
Screwdriver and bits
Drill
Drill Bits - 5 and 10mm are recommended (yes you will need two different sizes)
Flashlight - in case you loose them screws somewhere
Allen or Hex Key
Smoothing File
Ruler
Eye Protection

If you need to remove the external power supply (which is recommended by Mike New to use his Bearings) you may need the additional parts to remove the wiring:
Soldering Iron
Solder
Solder Remover

A recommendation someone had was to use clamps to hold the TT in place during drilling. If you have them, you may want to make them available.

Now with all this said, let the "fun" begin.

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 02:09
One of the base plates came with the Bearing attached to it as it is shown in picture 1. The other was just the plate itself, but has cutouts drilled to attach the Bearing.

Unfortunately, if you purchase the Base Plate and Bearing seperate, the Bearings do not have the holes drilled to attach it to the Base Plate. The steps will not change either way, and it will not change the outcome of this project. You can see this in picture 2.

I drew arrows in the pictures to show where the screws attach the bearing to the plate in pictures 3 and 4.

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 02:16
It is time to remove the tonearm, the platter, the top cover and the electronics from the TT - having only the chassis exposed. If necessary, desolder the PSU wiring from the circuit board.

Here is how the TT looks. And as a bonus, there is a close-up area of the Bearing area of how it looks - pre-drilled. Notice how the screw taps are elevated above the bottom of the chassis. This will need to be drilled or "shaved" to where it is leveled to the chassis. This allows the bearing base plate to be flushed to the chassis.

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 02:22
Now it is time to take your drill and insert the 10mm drill bit into it. Drill the tips of the three bearing taps where it will be shaved down to where it is level to the chassis. It is important to keep an eye out that you do not over-drill (or overshave) the bearing taps. You may want to have a small ruler or something small and level to sweep across the shaved bearing taps. If the ruler does not sweep across the bearing area uniformly, drill accordingly until it does sweep across. You want to insure that the taps are not under-shaved as the idea is to have the bearing base plate flush with the bottom of the chassis. Remember to use optical protection when drilling.

When drilling is completed, take a smoothing file and shave off any bits left over from the drilling.

See pics for details.

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 02:38
This next step will require the use of a 5mm drill bit. I recommend that you screw the bearing base plate into the bearing area using the enclosed black bolts that Mike N. enclosed. This will keep the bearing alligned to the drilling area on the chassis when drilling. I also recommend removing the bottom rubber from the TT before starting this procedure, but keeping the inner cavity attached to chassis.

Seperating the rubber from the TT insures you will not drill into or through the rubber.

To keep the chassis stable while drilling, you may want to clamp the chassis and cavity together to keep it steady if you have it at your disposal. I used a round-plastic waste basket, placing the chassis and cavity on top of it while placing the rubber underneath the wastebasket. This worked well for me.

Now drill into the chassis where the 5mm holes are on the bearing base plate. This is where you removed the 5 screws that came attached to the BBP.

A special note if you are using a hand-drill bit as opposed to a plunger drill. Try to keep the drill as steady and level as possible when drilling. If you have a bubble-level on your drill as I do, make use of it!!! Again - keep the drill as level as possible during this process. Although allignment is not critical, I feel it is important for this step. We are looking at drilling through two pieces of material which attach to one another, which makes this detail something that should not be overlooked.

Dont worry if you drill into and through into the cavity. You will want to drill into part into the cavity at a minimum to leave drill marks (in case you decide not to drill all the way through at this time). The drill marks will be used as an outline since you will need to drill into and through the cavity at these spots.

In the next step, you will drill through the cavity, making bigger holes.

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 02:51
Now remove the cavity from the chassis. Where you left drill-marks is where you want to drill. You will need the 5 and 10mm drill-bits for this step. Note that in this step, if you have a bubble level avaiable on your drill bit and you are using a manual-drill like I did (as opposed to using not a drill plunger), make use of it to try to keep the drill steady!!! It is important to keep the drill level as best as possible since allignment, although it is not critical, is important since the holes need to be alligned well for the nut to clear when you attach the cavity back to the chassis.

I recommend that if you did not drill through the cavity when it was attached to the chassis, take the 5mm drill bit and drill until it goes through. Then take the 10mm drill and drill through these same spots making it bigger. Resist using only the 10mm bit to drill through the cavity if you did not drill through using the 5mm bit. Using just the 10mm drill to drill through all the way will take more time to drill through.

Dont worry if there are only 4 spots to drill into the cavity. The 5th screw may not have moulding around its area as it was in my case - the unmoulded area is the Transformer Area.

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 03:02
Now take the 5 screws that you removed from the BBP and screw it in from the BBP into the chassis. The screw pattern tightning should be done in a star-pattern for best results.

When you are finished screwing, you should check to make sure the BBP is flush with the bottom of the chassis. There should be no space or air-gaps. If there are, remove the screws and check to make sure you fully shaved the bearing taps to where they are level to the bottom of the chassis. Remember to use a small flat ruler (or something flat) to check. If the bearing-chassis area is level, then check that the chassis surface is clean and level, and that the bottom of the BBP does not have any debris on it to prevent it from being flush. If all checks out, check your screw pattern.

If all checks out, attach the cavity back to the chassis. The nuts should clear the new cavity holes that were just made.

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 03:30
Attach the rubber and feet back to the chassis, making the TT whole again.

I leave it to you to decide when it's best to attach the tonearm back to the TT - before or after the rubber is attached. When to attach the arm back to the TT can differ from arm-to-arm that you use with the TT. For SME arms, I recommend attaching it back after the chassis is put back together. Those using the stock tonearms may find its best to put the arm back before the rubber is put on - I leave it to your best judgement to decide. Your experience may differ.

Remove the long black bolts from the BBP (or BBP+Bearing unit). Now attach the Bearing to BBP if they were purchased seperately. The bearing will be attached to the BBP if they both were purchased together. Either way, make sure the black bolts are removed.

Before placing the circuitry back into place, run the long wire clip that attaches to the top of the PCB as it was before you removed it, so that the wire runs underneath the circuitry.

Now place the circuitry back into the chassis and solder the DC leads if necessary. Note - this will be a great time to relocate the negative DC cable to the true earth - screw it at the lower left hand corner where the ground cable goes to. Do this if you have not done this already. The instructions provided with the Timestep PSU does not have the DC ground wire located at the optimum area. This is well documented elsewhere on this forum.

The BBP package will come with 3 spacers and screws which may be brass coloured. These spacers are necessary to use since the PCB will be elevated from the taps. Place these spacers between the taps and screw the PCB with the longer screws provided by Mike New.

Now screw the black bolts back into the circuitry where the Bearing is. You should be able to screw the bolts all the way so that they are flush with the stator ring. Connect all electrical wiring back to the circuit board.

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 04:03
Now, if you have not done so already, attach the tonearm.

If you are using the stock or Mike New platter, attach it first to make sure it is level. If it is not, remove it and check your work - relating to the black bolts, circuit board, stator area, the Bearing, and the BBP areas.

If all is level, you can attach the black cover that sits below the platter - assuming you are using the stock platter - and then the platter and mat back on the TT.

If you are using the Mike New Platter, you should leave the black cover off as it can interfere with the platter. (But I am sure you knew that already :eyebrows: ).

Check again to make sure that the platter is level. Adjust accordingly.

Now that you have your TT back together, adjust the VTA on your tonearm as the new bearing base plate will elevate your platter. I have taken pics but am not sure if it will reveal its elevation.

If you purchased the Platter together with either the bearing base plate, or BBP + Bearing Combo, Mike New may have made adjustments to your platter so that the platter is even to the chassis surface. If this is the case with your platter, the adjusted platter can only be used with Mike New's bearing base plate and bearing. (I am sure you knew that already.)

:lolsign:

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 04:05
So how does it sound? Stay tuned tomorrow!!! It is midnight and I have to get to work tomorrow. I am pushing 3 hours spent so far between the picture work and the thread.

JazzBones
25-08-2011, 10:44
Well done Mike (CableMaker1):), a clear, pictorial with accompanying instructions for anyone contemplating this mod. Thanks for the time and effort taken. One question: did you clamp or restrain movement of the turntable when your performed the drilling process to prevent rotational movement of the alloy chassis also how did you achieve this?

Ron

CableMaker1
25-08-2011, 17:15
Hello Ron.

I did not have any clamps available to use on my TT when I drilled. I discovered that the TT stayed rock steady when I was performing the drilling. The secret is to put the TT chassis and cavity on top of a round-bedroom wastebasket and put the rubber underneath the wastebasket to dampen any movement. Make sure the wastebasket is plastic and durable!!!

However, you do bring up a good point which makes a good suggestion - if you have clamps at your disposal which you are confident that it will not leave marks on the TT, especially during the drilling process, see if you can make use of it to keep the TT steady during the drill process.

More to comment later.

Whoever is responisible for making this thread a sticky - thank you! I planned to request this at some point after completing my article.

Marco
25-08-2011, 17:31
Hi Mike,

Just a quickie, and totally off-topic, but where is Westchester? :)

Marco.

REXTON
25-08-2011, 18:47
This brings back memories when I did mine! Great article.

CableMaker1
26-08-2011, 00:49
So... how does it sound with the Bearing Base Plate? My first impression, is that I was blown away! When I dropped the needle for the first time, I heard no surface noise what-so-ever!!! I could not wait to hear the music to hear how it would sound. I can tell you that the BBP works so great that all I heard was dead-silence!!! Litterally!!! I thought that either I went deaf or that Mike New's BBP is quite a music damper.

So now at this point, I had to go back and check my work. Surely, everything looked fine with the TT. After further investigating, I found the problem area. I took a picture to show. Only the trained eye would be able to spot the problem.

CableMaker1
26-08-2011, 01:02
What you are looking at is the phono-pre-amp where the power was disconnected. All the wiring you see is the wiring I made, and in use. The wiring you see is a power cord, inter-connects, and my tonearm cable, all made by me. The results are quite stunning - it sounds beautiful in my system.

(Shameless plug of my work. :eyebrows: )

When I got everything up and running, I did notice less surface noise and rumble when the needle dropped down on the record. This translates to more top-end sound and even more clarity compared to using just the MN Bearing alone. If you do not have the Mike New Bearing and you are reading this article, all I can ask is what are you waiting for??? This coupled with an external PSU will transform your TT to a higher level!!! The BBP will elevate your vinyl experience even further. And my tonearm cabling and interconnects will all but max-out your TT. A new tonearm and dedicated Phono-Preamp takes your vinyl experience to the max, for a 3-Dimensional Sound!!!

Anyone using this combination on their TT gives you the athority to use the Real-3D logo, which cannot be achieved by DVD or CD playback.


:lolsign:

Marco
26-08-2011, 10:22
Nice one, Mike - great write up, and I'm pleased that the base plate has been a success :)

Could you please clear this up for me?


Hi Mike,

Just a quickie, and totally off-topic, but where is Westchester?


If Westchester is located somewhere outside of the UK, then please put that info on your profile location details.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

RobbieGong
26-08-2011, 13:19
HI, Yes as already said thanks for taking the time to offer up this step by step write up as well as details and pics :) . Could you kindly let me or us know what the base plates fundamental funtion is ie: is it to provide a better and more stable platform for the bearing to sit ? (Sorry if you've expressed this already and i've missed it - I'm at work reading and typing this up fairly quickly during my lunch break ). I have the Mike New bearing too and yes it is great. I'll be putting something up about my findings at some point re: this and external psu together.
I'd love to have fitted the base plate too, it kind of missed my radar until your thread. Now I've had the deck undone and put back together with external psu and Mike New bearing fitted I'm not sure if I want to undo everything including arm (I have KAB damper fitted too) and get rid of the Mrs and kids :lol: while I undertake what would be a labour of love :eyebrows:. Are the differences or benefits that significant to justify those of us with Mike New minus baseplate in place taking on a fair 'pull up' of the techy gubbins and parts ?

JazzBones
26-08-2011, 14:40
HI, Yes as already said thanks for taking the time to offer up this step by step write up as well as details and pics :) . Could you kindly let me or us know what the base plates fundamental funtion is ie: is it to provide a better and more stable platform for the bearing to sit ? (Sorry if you've expressed this already and i've missed it - I'm at work reading and typing this up fairly quickly during my lunch break ). I have the Mike New bearing too and yes it is great. I'll be putting something up about my findings at some point re: this and external psu together.
I'd love to have fitted the base plate too, it kind of missed my radar until your thread. Now I've had the deck undone and put back together with external psu and Mike New bearing fitted I'm not sure if I want to undo everything including arm (I have KAB damper fitted too) and get rid of the Mrs and kids :lol: while I undertake what would be a labour of love :eyebrows:. Are the differences or benefits that significant to justify those of us with Mike New minus baseplate in place taking on a fair 'pull up' of the techy gubbins and parts ?

Robert, this was the question I had in mind as I too have the Mike New bearing, I was a very early adopter of this bearing when there was alot of controvesy going on about it, and before the MN base plate came into existence. I also have the TimeStep HE outboard PSU but I have a Kondo silver wired Linn Ekos arm worked on by Audio Origami. I have retained the original platter but augmented it with a constrained layer sub platter (copper, damped aluminium, 5mm Acromat) thus making the overall platter inert and well damped. The MN platter and Funk Firm acrylic platters at circa GBP600.oo a piece is an expense to far for me, but who knows maybe one day?

Getting back to the bearing base plate, if you dig around here you will find that Marco took his highly hot rodded Tekko, minus the base plate over to MartinT also with a highly spected up Tek plus MN base plate installed and Marco could detect hardly any difference? Of course this was some time ago and maybe Marco can jump in here and advise whether he eventually had the MN base plate installed?

What I strongly believe is that the 12XX can only be taken so far before the laws of diminished returns bite with a vengeance, all okay if you're a Mr or Mrs Moneypockets but I have to live in today's real world :( Having taken my deck apart on a number of occassions one last time to install the base plate would be it, there after lock it and throw the key away! :eek:

Get your T/table to a standard that you enjoy and then forget about the 'what if I do this or buy that for it' syndrome or you'll forever be on Hi Fi's merry go round :rolleyes:

Ron

MCRU
26-08-2011, 15:59
Nice one, Mike - great write up, and I'm pleased that the base plate has been a success :)

Could you please clear this up for me?



If Westchester is located somewhere outside of the UK, then please put that info on your profile location details.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Who cares where it is dude, what possible difference can it make? :ner:

Marco
26-08-2011, 16:10
Hi Ron,


Getting back to the bearing base plate, if you dig around here you will find that Marco took his highly hot rodded Tekko, minus the base plate over to MartinT also with a highly spected up Tek plus MN base plate installed and Marco could detect hardly any difference? Of course this was some time ago and maybe Marco can jump in here and advise whether he eventually had the MN base plate installed?


Nope, mate, not yet. But it's something that I may consider doing in future. I'm not really in any hurry to start dismantling my T/T again; I'm more interested in just enjoying the music it makes :)

However, the fact that I didn't really hear any difference at Martin's, with the bearing base plate, I'd suggest isn't indicative of it not making any, but rather the presence of many other variables (the different tonearms on both T/Ts being one such case in point) making it impossible to arrive at any firm conclusions.....

My advice for anyone intending on buying one of Mike's bearings, would be if possible, to buy the bearing and base plate together in one hit, thereby ensuring optimum performance, and the removal of any niggling doubt that one hasn't maxed things out, which is precisely what I would've done had the base plate been available when I bought the bearing, and had it fitted to my T/T, by DC :cool:

Marco.

JazzBones
26-08-2011, 16:57
Hi Ron,



Nope, mate, not yet. But it's something that I may consider doing in future. I
.............................................
My advice for anyone intending on buying one of Mike's bearings, would be if possible, to buy the bearing and base plate together in one hit, thereby ensuring optimum performance, and the removal of any niggling doubt that one hasn't maxed things out, which is precisely what I would've done, had the base plate been available when I bought the bearing, and had it fitted by DC :cool:

Marco.

Thanks Marco, thats exactly what I would have done had there been a MN base plate available when I installed my MN bearing, we must have got ours around the same time, thats what ya call a pioneering spirit. I endorse buying the base plate and bearing together both and I would have done this too, its a tedious job forever having to dismantle and then reassemble any turntable, at least with the El Tekko you don't have three springs or more to faff about with to get the bounce perfect :steam:

Ron

RobbieGong
26-08-2011, 22:03
Robert, this was the question I had in mind as I too have the Mike New bearing, I was a very early adopter of this bearing when there was alot of controvesy going on about it, and before the MN base plate came into existence. I also have the TimeStep HE outboard PSU but I have a Kondo silver wired Linn Ekos arm worked on by Audio Origami. I have retained the original platter but augmented it with a constrained layer sub platter (copper, damped aluminium, 5mm Acromat) thus making the overall platter inert and well damped. The MN platter and Funk Firm acrylic platters at circa GBP600.oo a piece is an expense to far for me, but who knows maybe one day?

Getting back to the bearing base plate, if you dig around here you will find that Marco took his highly hot rodded Tekko, minus the base plate over to MartinT also with a highly spected up Tek plus MN base plate installed and Marco could detect hardly any difference? Of course this was some time ago and maybe Marco can jump in here and advise whether he eventually had the MN base plate installed?

What I strongly believe is that the 12XX can only be taken so far before the laws of diminished returns bite with a vengeance, all okay if you're a Mr or Mrs Moneypockets but I have to live in today's real world :( Having taken my deck apart on a number of occassions one last time to install the base plate would be it, there after lock it and throw the key away! :eek:

Get your T/table to a standard that you enjoy and then forget about the 'what if I do this or buy that for it' syndrome or you'll forever be on Hi Fi's merry go round :rolleyes:

Ron

Hi Ron, Valid and fair point. I've actually been thinking this for a while. Money is money at the end of the day and if you've got it to indulge then why not go as far as you want and can I believe, its addictive and a buzz for sure. Nothing can match that feeling when your deck / system is sounding superb and singing in a way that brings a smile. That said, It certainly can be a merry go round, wanting more, getting further in, trying and wanting everything towards vinyl sonic heaven. It takes time, patience, fiddling, culling, changing, trying, liking, hating, adding, removing, setting, re-setting, pull up, put back lol - not to mention a heck of a lot of chi ching !! and then you sometimes still find you dont feel your quite there yet :scratch:- ha ha Hence I aint going through all the forementioned stuf to add a baseplate to my techy at this stage, three hours or so major surgery for how much benefit ??. I'm fairly happy with mine at the mo and may look at something to help the stock platter and give me hopefully even nicer sonics and insight in the future - I still have stock mat and I know the hassle of trying mats can be a right frustration too - Any recommendations for me anyone re: platter / mat improvement ? :eyebrows: - Please dont suggest MN platter - I'm skint !! :lolsign:

CableMaker1
27-08-2011, 00:10
I still have stock mat and I know the hassle of trying mats can be a right frustration too - Any recommendations for me anyone re: platter / mat improvement ? :eyebrows: - Please dont suggest MN platter - I'm skint !!
:lolsign:

Platter/Mat combo?
For the stock platter - The Herbies Mat Performed well - most economical. To move a step up, Funk Firms Achromat. After that, a copper mat - which adds mass to the platter. Whoah... $$$$

Someone suggested here that they had great results with sending their stock platter to have it copper-topped and bonded to the platter by Vantage Audio. I do not know the cost or the final results of doing that vs. getting a copper mat, but you may want to ask around.

And of course if you want to move up to audio nirvana, why not break the bank on purchasing the Mike New Copper-Top Platter ? :eyebrows: With everything that I read on this forum, people are most satisfied with their platter. Sounds like you cant go wrong if you have the funds to get the platter.

At the moment, all the mods I made to my TT has been for the better.

Of course, there are economical upgrades, middle-of-the-road, and the all-out upgrades. It all depends how far you want and/or can afford to take it.

CableMaker1
27-08-2011, 00:24
HI, Yes as already said thanks for taking the time to offer up this step by step write up as well as details and pics :) . Could you kindly let me or us know what the base plates fundamental funtion is ie: is it to provide a better and more stable platform for the bearing to sit ?

The Bearing Base Plate primary function is to give the Bearing more stability to the turntable. It adds stability by using 5 additional nut/bolt combo by clamping it down to the chassis.

Note that you CANNOT use the Bearing Base Plate with the stock Bearing without doing some work. This is because the original stock bearing is keyed as you can see when removing it from the housing. And you cannot use it with the stock Transformer in place - it needs to be removed.

My primary reason for purchasing the BBP is because I wanted to raise the platter to use it with a copper mat and an SME arm. The Mike New solution allows for that to happen.

Unfortunately, the SME arm does lower itself enough to make contact with the record when using a copper mat. Using a Herbies Mat with the SME arm does not have that problem. But if you want the very best, sometimes you have to make sacrafices.

CableMaker1
27-08-2011, 00:44
Thanks Marco, thats exactly what I would have done had there been a MN base plate available when I installed my MN bearing, we must have got ours around the same time, thats what ya call a pioneering spirit. I endorse buying the base plate and bearing together both and I would have done this too, its a tedious job forever having to dismantle and then reassemble any turntable, at least with the El Tekko you don't have three springs or more to faff about with to get the bounce perfect :steam:

Ron

I too was one of the early adopters of Mike New's bearing. I found out about the BBP by Mike himself last year when he was working on the platter - bringing it from prototype to reality. I kept the BBP in the back of my mind wondering if I should go for it. I finally realized a need for it when I went from a Herbies Mat to a copper mat.

Mike

CableMaker1
27-08-2011, 01:05
Hi Ron, Valid and fair point. I've actually been thinking this for a while. Money is money at the end of the day and if you've got it to indulge then why not go as far as you want and can I believe, its addictive and a buzz for sure. Nothing can match that feeling when your deck / system is sounding superb and singing in a way that brings a smile. That said, It certainly can be a merry go round, wanting more, getting further in, trying and wanting everything towards vinyl sonic heaven. It takes time, patience, fiddling, culling, changing, trying, liking, hating, adding, removing, setting, re-setting, pull up, put back lol - not to mention a heck of a lot of chi ching !! and then you sometimes still find you dont feel your quite there yet :scratch:- ha ha Hence I aint going through all the forementioned stuf to add a baseplate to my techy at this stage, three hours or so major surgery for how much benefit ??. I'm fairly happy with mine at the mo and may look at something to help the stock platter and give me hopefully even nicer sonics and insight in the future - I still have stock mat and I know the hassle of trying mats can be a right frustration too - Any recommendations for me anyone re: platter / mat improvement ? :eyebrows: - Please dont suggest MN platter - I'm skint !! :lolsign:


Ron -

Here is something to consider - from my experience, and from all the threads posted so far regarding the avaliable Technics Mods - I have never come across a bad upgrade for my Technics TT. Nor have I heard anyone experience a bad upgrade with upgrading their Technics. This is true especially if you use products from Mike New, Vantage Audio (from what I heard from others on this forum so far), Oyaide products, Funk Firms Achromat, Paul Hynes, SME, Jelco, or even - yes... Dave Cawleys Timestep PSU (no grunting please - I have to say it to be fair although despite the fact where I read that he marginalized Mike New. I do have the PSU and I have not read anyone complaining about the performance it offers).

Perhaps the satisfaction level is so high with these mods is because the people behind these products do extensive research before endorsing their mod for the specific application - in our case - our beloved Technics TT.

Any thoughts?

Marco
27-08-2011, 08:45
Mike (Cablemaker1),

I'm normally a reasonably patient person, but you're either selectively blind or deliberately ignoring me, for some unknown reason, but I've asked you about FOUR times now were Westchester is (and to add that info to your profile), which you've so far failed to do.

Therefore, I will ask you ONE FINAL time, as ignoring me is NOT AN OPTION.....

WHERE IS WESTCHESTER???

Your failure to answer the question this time (and add the info to your profile) will result in a week's ban. I do hope I've made myself clear!!

Marco.

StanleyB
27-08-2011, 10:10
Isn't Westchester in Illinois?

The Grand Wazoo
27-08-2011, 10:27
New York State, I think?

StanleyB
27-08-2011, 10:35
For New York that would be Westchester County. Either way, they are both in the US.

DSJR
27-08-2011, 10:36
For a cheap mat option which gives around 3mm height, what about cork? The plain floor-tile made ones I use are great and the sonics can be easily tuned by either using the flatter side up, or the rougher one. No rubber in mine that I can see, but they do work well for me and cost very little relatively speaking (and my home made ones don't even have a label recess - doesn't matter really in the wide scheme of things IMO as the cork is soft). These work without any form of clamp or weight too I find.

JazzBones
27-08-2011, 11:26
The Bearing Base Plate primary function is to give the Bearing more stability to the turntable. It adds stability by using 5 additional nut/bolt combo by clamping it down to the chassis.

Note that you CANNOT use the Bearing Base Plate with the stock Bearing without doing some work. This is because the original stock bearing is keyed as you can see when removing it from the housing. And you cannot use it with the stock Transformer in place - it needs to be removed.

............

What actually is the work needed on the base plate when using it with the early installation of the MN bearing on its own? I have the latter and I am considering the former? Were you referring to the Technics stock bearing that others (not MN) are still using as the housing for their upgrades, viz: TimeStep, Vantage Audio and so on? In otherwords if you want the MN base plate it can ONLY be used with the MN bearing and for the moment and forseable future none other!? Sorry if my light bulb is a flickering on this one :scratch: Having an out board PSU there is no contact fouling likely to happen.

This has been a very informative thread and once again thanks :interesting:

Ron

Oh bugger, on re-reading your post I see that you were referring to the Stock platter but I'll push the send button anyway. :sorry: a senior moment!

Marco
27-08-2011, 11:29
For New York that would be Westchester County. Either way, they are both in the US.

Cheers, chaps. I suspected that it was somewhere in the US, but I don't know why the hell Mike couldn't just have said so, after I'd asked him the question four times!! :doh:

On AoS, we like our members to know where each other comes from, and as this is a UK-based site, 'foreign' locations (towns and states) not ending with the country of origin, may be unfamiliar to some people.

Therefore, if Westchester is in, say, Illinois, then the correct way to display one's location details would be: "Westchester, Illinois, USA".

That is the layout I would like everyone to follow, especially those whose geographical location may not be instantly well-known to the majority :)

Marco.

chris@panteg
27-08-2011, 11:34
For New York that would be Westchester County. Either way, they are both in the US.

Westchester NY , some pics from Wikipedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Philipsburg_Manor%2C_Sleepy_Hollow%2C_New_York.JPG/800px-Philipsburg_Manor%2C_Sleepy_Hollow%2C_New_York.JPG


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/New_Rochelle_Davids_Island2.jpg/800px-New_Rochelle_Davids_Island2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/New_Croton_Reservoir.jpg/800px-New_Croton_Reservoir.jpg

Marco
27-08-2011, 11:43
Looks very nice indeed, Chris! But does Mike live in the Westchester in NY or Illinois? :scratch:

That's my point! ;)

Marco.

Macca
27-08-2011, 11:51
Looks very nice indeed, Chris! But does Mike live in the Westchester in NY or Illinois? :scratch:

That's my point! ;)

Marco.

I think the Illinois one is West Chester - i.e two seperate words so I am going for the county in up state New York . Although IME some of our American cousins seem to have a fairly scanty knowledge of geography so you should consider the possibility that Mike is not entirely sure himself as to exactly where he is :lol:

chris@panteg
27-08-2011, 11:54
Looks very nice indeed, Chris! But does Mike live in the Westchester in NY or Illinois? :scratch:

That's my point! ;)

Marco.

Indeed , and it is a reasonable request , I'm sure he will be happy to comply .

Marco
27-08-2011, 11:54
I think the Illinois one is West Chester - i.e two seperate words so I am going for the county in up state New York . Although IME some of our American cousins seem to have a fairly scanty knowledge of geography so you should consider the possibility that Mike is not entirely sure himself as to exactly where he is :lol:


:doh: :lolsign:

At least, with all this discussion, he'll now be sure to clear up the confusion!!

Marco.

chris@panteg
27-08-2011, 12:00
I think the Illinois one is West Chester - i.e two seperate words so I am going for the county in up state New York . Although IME some of our American cousins seem to have a fairly scanty knowledge of geography so you should consider the possibility that Mike is not entirely sure himself as to exactly where he is :lol:

:eyebrows: That's a bit harsh .

JazzBones
27-08-2011, 12:34
Sometime back I had an interesting email from Dr Michael Krug in Vienna. He gets an excellent result from his 12XX by retaining the stock platter but augmenting it with the latest Isoplatmat (SDS) which fits within the lip of the stock platter and then the Herbies mat on top. Now I know that others have tried the Isoplatmat and found it wanting, hollow sounding was one comment, but the new one at a diam of 285mm is slightly thicker than the old one and is a perfect fit within the lipping of the 12XX platter. It lays flatter than a punctured wide rimmed tyre. Price is GBP87.50 plus 5.50 for P & P within the UK (www.sounddeadsteel.com I have the original at a diam of 288mm but not in use. The new one, which I have bought, most certainly takes out any ringing of the stock platter and as I have a Herbies mat in my library of mats I can say that it works, thanks for the info Dr Mike :). Of course experimentation with other mats, cork etc, can easily be tried out if you have the will and mind to do so :rolleyes:

Now this is what I am using at the mo atop the stock platter. First the SDS 285mm, then the Rubato copper and finally the Acromat. These three layers have been bonded together (but not to the main platter), using the the old petroleum jelly method, into one constrained layer sub platter. Note please: this is not recommended if you are starting from scratch as buying these three units in one hit is costly and you are likely (?) to be better served by spending a bit more and go for the MN platter or Funk acrylic one. I had all the above mats etc in possession over a period of time so that the expenditure had been spread over the past years and could be used for experimental purposes, geddit?

I wanted this idea of a main plus a substantial sub platter, taking my thinking from the separate inner and outer platter of Linn, Thorens, AR etc. I do certainly hear clearer instrumentation coming to me than when I used only the Copper Rubato and Acromat bonding. The swishing of Joe Morello's and Shelly Manne's brushs on the snare drum, the kick of the bass drum, is clear, so very clear. The deep, fat sonority of Ray Brown's walking double base, the sweet, lyrical and celebral playing of the alto sax from Paul Desmond, the sheer musicality and deep tones of Mulligan's and PepperAdam's baritone saxs, the percussive playing of Dave Brubeck's piano playing to the lilting touch of Bill Evans. As for trumpet, Chet Baker, Miles, Arturo Sandaval, Dizzie's, goose bumps man! As for voices, Ella's through to Krall's and for the fellas, Jimmy Rushing, Billy Eckstein through to Mel Torme are so much more enjoyable that I forget to drink the red vino within finger reach let alone top up the glass :cocktail: And as for acoustic and electrical guitar, how the hell did that guy get into my house!

Phew, as Dino said 'wheres the couch?'

:thumbsup:

CableMaker1
27-08-2011, 14:29
I think the Illinois one is West Chester - i.e two seperate words so I am going for the county in up state New York . Although IME some of our American cousins seem to have a fairly scanty knowledge of geography so you should consider the possibility that Mike is not entirely sure himself as to exactly where he is :lol:

Macca has it right - i dont know where i live. :scratch:
But Mike New knows. :lol: So according to the packing slip that came with the BBP, I live in NY. :lolsign:

Which for the next couple of days, I am in the destructive path of hurricane Irene. So I have to get ready to bear down and go shopping before it swings by for a visit starting tomorrow. I will sleep better knowing that the added weight of BBP will keep my TT secure during the storm.


There are also West Chester Cities in Ohio and Pensylvania.

It seems that this thread has turned from the installation of the Mike New BBP to a geography lesson to where I live. I get the sense that Marco is really into geography, wants to stop by my place, or both.

I have to go now, but keep the questions (or laughs) coming. There may be a delayed response because of the circumstances. For the questions I did not get a chance to answer, I will answer later.

Reporting from Westchester -

Mike

keiths
27-08-2011, 15:14
Best of luck - hope Irene gives you a miss.

Marco
27-08-2011, 15:23
It seems that this thread has turned from the installation of the Mike New BBP to a geography lesson to where I live. I get the sense that Marco is really into geography, wants to stop by my place, or both.


Nope, Marco is simply interested in all members providing understandable information on their account profiles, as per the requirements of the site, particularly such as that pertaining to real names and geographical locations, which if you'd answered my question before, without me having to ask four times to obtain the information (in the end provided via third parties), wouldn't have caused this hoo-hah! ;)

Stay safe from hurricane Irene and enjoy your Techy :)

Marco.

CableMaker1
27-08-2011, 20:46
Nope, Marco is simply interested in all members providing understandable information on their account profiles, as per the requirements of the site, particularly such as that pertaining to real names and geographical locations, which if you'd answered my question before, without me having to ask four times to obtain the information (in the end provided via third parties), wouldn't have caused this hoo-hah! ;)


Now now Marco, you were speaking too fast for me to understand. I also sometimes have a hard time understanding peoples accents.

I still sense you have a vested interest in geographical locations, so I did this just for you. Lets see if anyone can find Westchester. :cool:

Marco
27-08-2011, 20:53
Lol.... The only Chester I know, is the one down the road from me in England, which is where I thought you might originally be referring to (the west part), of course!! :lol:

Marco.

CableMaker1
27-08-2011, 21:09
What actually is the work needed on the base plate when using it with the early installation of the MN bearing on its own? I have the latter and I am considering the former? Were you referring to the Technics stock bearing that others (not MN) are still using as the housing for their upgrades, viz: TimeStep, Vantage Audio and so on? In otherwords if you want the MN base plate it can ONLY be used with the MN bearing and for the moment and forseable future none other!?

Hello Ron.

The Bearing Base Plate was meant to be used with the Mike New Bearing. It does not matter whether you are using an earlier or later verison of his bearing.

The Bearing Base Plate was not meant to be used with the standard Technics stock bearing. The stock bearing is keyed, which the chassis has a keyhole to prevent the bearing to be placed any other way. The keyhole was meant to add stability to the bearing, preventing or restricting movement (which the 3 bearing posts would prevent) while the TT is in use.

The Bearing Base Plate does not have this keyhole in case anyone is thinking of using the stock bearing or a modified version of the stock bearing with the BBP. It will not work as-is.

You can see the keyhole on the chassis where the stock bearing would be keyed. It is right next to the screw tap in the lower right corner.

CableMaker1
27-08-2011, 21:13
Lol.... The only Chester I know, is the one down the road from me in England, which is where I thought you might originally be referring to (the west part), of course!! :lol:

Marco.

I am a little further west from the Chester location you are refering to, which involves going over a slightly oversized "pond".

I am sure if I were from that area, you would be stopping by for a visit. It would have given us the chance to have a TT showdown.

Marco
27-08-2011, 21:18
Hey, Mikey, if Westchester wasn't famous before, it sure as hell is now!! :eyebrows:

Anyway, if you're ever in the land of the sheep, over that wee puddle you're referring to, you'd be very welcome to cruise by for a sesh! ;)

Marco.

CableMaker1
27-08-2011, 21:29
Hey, Mikey, if Westchester wasn't famous before, it sure as hell is now!! :eyebrows:

Anyway, if you're ever in the land of the sheep, over that wee puddle you're referring to, you'd be very welcome to cruise by for a sesh! ;)

Marco.


Hee hee. How close are you to London? My sis was there earlier this month.

Today may be my last day of communication for some time pending on the severity of the storm. The arm of the hurricane is over us which has bought some rain earlier today. Full brunt is expected tomorrow. NYC subways are closed. There is talk of shutting down the electrical grid in downtown NYC. The elevator in my building has been shut down and although it is not official, I do live in a flood zone where I expect to be surrounded by water. I lost my car earlier this year due to a flooding by rain.

Alex_UK
27-08-2011, 22:35
Fingers crossed for you Mike. :( (Loved the map, BTW! :lol:)

Spectral Morn
27-08-2011, 22:45
Fingers crossed for you Mike. :( (Loved the map, BTW! :lol:)

+1 I hope its not too bad a storm and you pass through to the other side unharmed, as I do all the citizens of the USA who may be caught up in this.


Regards D S D L

Marco
27-08-2011, 22:58
Hee hee. How close are you to London? My sis was there earlier this month.


About 200 miles north! But that's a mere 'stroll down the shops' for you guys! ;)

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo
28-08-2011, 00:01
I too was very interested in the map. I found it rather intriguing that Westchester has such neat 90 degree corners - not like any County in the UK.

Also, it's dead straight river near the coast and the large circular mountain range in the middle seemed to remind me of somewhere or other, though I can't quite work out where - maybe it was that Japanese mountain range that's 1200 metres above Sea Level.

Alex_UK
28-08-2011, 06:16
I too was very interested in the map. I found it rather intriguing that Westchester has such neat 90 degree corners - not like any County in the UK.

Also, it's dead straight river near the coast and the large circular mountain range in the middle seemed to remind me of somewhere or other, though I can't quite work out where - maybe it was that Japanese mountain range that's 1200 metres above Sea Level.

I see what you did there! :lol:

Wouldn't it be great if the Straight Line along the bottom of the county was 1210 miles?

CableMaker1
28-08-2011, 16:09
I too was very interested in the map. I found it rather intriguing that Westchester has such neat 90 degree corners - not like any County in the UK.

Also, it's dead straight river near the coast and the large circular mountain range in the middle seemed to remind me of somewhere or other, though I can't quite work out where - maybe it was that Japanese mountain range that's 1200 metres above Sea Level.

Our highways have the unique distinction where sometimes you go around in circles with a distinct red glow.

CableMaker1
28-08-2011, 16:12
Well, you can drop by. My address is:
1200 Technics Way
Matsushita, NY 01200
USA

:stalks:

MCRU
28-08-2011, 16:23
Mike (Cablemaker1),

I'm normally a reasonably patient person, but you're either selectively blind or deliberately ignoring me, for some unknown reason, but I've asked you about FOUR times now were Westchester is (and to add that info to your profile), which you've so far failed to do.

Therefore, I will ask you ONE FINAL time, as ignoring me is NOT AN OPTION.....

WHERE IS WESTCHESTER???

Your failure to answer the question this time (and add the info to your profile) will result in a week's ban. I do hope I've made myself clear!!

Marco.

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/pram.jpg

CableMaker1
28-08-2011, 16:26
+1 I hope its not too bad a storm and you pass through to the other side unharmed, as I do all the citizens of the USA who may be caught up in this.
Regards D S D L

The hurricane looks to be clearing out. I did see sun for about 10 minutes or so. Luckly no (major) power outages or destruction in NYC/Westchester my area that I know of right now. But there is lots of rain to go around.

We did not get the full blast of winds that were promised in our area. Long Island (the tip that sticks out at bottom east of the NY map) always gets hit the hardest during any major storm since they are costal.


Its been a pretty eventful week for New York and the Eastern Seaboard in the USA.

Earthquake: Check
Hurricane: Check
The New York Yankees becoming the first Major League Team to hit 3 Grand Slams in a single game: You bet we have that covered.

Rumor has it that the sizmic activity that impacted the Eastern Seaboard earlier in the week has the epicenter in Westchester due to some guy drilling into his TT. Again, this is just a rumor.

CableMaker1
28-08-2011, 16:30
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/pram.jpg

I think you missed the answer. In addition - stop playing with my toys!!!
(Cute pic)

Besides - how do you get the picture in the quote? I tried following the instructions in the FAQ, but I think I am missing something. I upload pics to the album on this forum, but i never see an arrow when I add the pics to a quote. And I do not have a website to upload the pics to.

CableMaker1
28-08-2011, 16:49
Hmmm... lets try this...

Nope, not working the way I expect it to.

This is what I copied and pasted from the FAQ when doing a search on pictures. I get stuck on this part - I have a manage attachments where I see the file uploaded to the post/reply to thread, and the file is there. But no arrow to click on to attach the image to the reply the way I see in other posts. Wait, lets see if this works.

5204


How do I add an image to a post?
If you have uploaded an image as an attachment, you can click the arrow next to the 'Attachment Icon' and select it from the list. This will be inserted into your post and can be located where you want it displayed.

OK, I got it now.

Mike_New
29-08-2011, 05:31
Now that Mike is safe and sound and still alive in one of the three Westchesters; I will try to explain the philosophy behind the ‘Bearing Base Plate’ and how it was designed to integrate with my Bearing and Copper Bonded Platter.

I designed and manufactured my first batch of High Precision Bearings some three years ago now. It was evident to me at the time that the existing platform for the bearing could be improved so as to provide a more rigid mounting onto the Alluminium chassis, and also provide a more positive clamping for my bearing using larger bolts, which can be effectively tightened up onto the coil stator assembly. This is possible because the new 1/8” Whit hex head bolts, are now threaded into the 6mm thick steel Base Plate, they are not self taps.

I designed the prototype Bearing Base Plate and provided the first unit to Mike in CAL USA. who is a mechanical person of great ability as a result of his connection with aeroplanes of the aggressive type!

We also discussed the advantage of such a Base Plate in raising the effective height of the “assembly” so that VTA (for other arms) could be more easily obtained by virtue that the Base Plate was 6mm thick.
However my concern with the bearing Base Plate was the level of average DIY skill required to install it. However all those who have received one have had no problems and have said that it is not that difficult, which is satisfying as I did try to optimize the positioning of the bolts for ease of drilling and to avoid the strengthening ribs underneath the chassis.

Mike in this thread, has made mention of the raised portion around the three holes which he calls taps. These are in fact the plain holes which take the long self-tapping bolts which normally secure both the bearing and the coil assembly to the chassis. You can see from his pics that the holes are surrounded by raised lugs on the edge of the bearing well.

Now if you purchase only my bearing, as most people do; then you will be using these long self-tap bolts to secure your new bearing to the chassis in the normal way, nothing changes. The large majority of people who have chosen this first option are happy with the greatly improved sonics the bearings provides and stay at this point on the upgrade path.

Now to address the real objective of this post:

The Bearing Base Plate serves essentially two functions,
a) to provide a more rigid foundation for my bearing. and
b) to effectively raise the whole assembly up by 6mm ( the thickness of the Base Plate) so as to provide more room for the adjustment of VTA on the various arms that are now being used with the SL1200.

Now for those people who are not interested or inclined to carry out the work required to fit the Base Plate, then the purchase of the bearing on it’s own is the obvious option and is certainly the choice of the majority of SL1200 people. The Base Plate does not form a mandatory part of my bearing assembly, purely an option.

If you are contemplating the purchase of one of my platters in the future and /or require to raise up the platter for easier VTA adjustment on the tone arm of your choice, then you may wish to obtain a Base Plate. The choice of upgrade path is up to the person concerned.
My Copper Bonded Platter will run very happily without the Base Plate.

The Base Plate has been designed so that it can be fitted later, in keeping with my objective to provide an upgrade path according to the finances and inclination of the particular enthusiast. If you buy the Base Plate at a later date after you have installed my Bearing (as many people have done) then you will also get the new bolts, which will fit directly into the threaded holes in the Base Plate. Thus more securely clamping the bearing and coil assembly together.

Mike also talked about the notch in the chassis, which fits a protrusion on the OEM bearing, he showed a pic of it. The notch and protrusion do not have anything to do with the operation of the bearing assembly or it’s location or rotation, as the three bolts do all this.
Rather, they were probably included by the original designers as a way of quickly locating the bearing into the chassis so that the three self-tap bolt-holes would quickly line up for insertion of the long bolts during production-line assembly.
Remember they were probably producing many thousand a week and would be using air driven screwdrivers for speed of assembly.

I did consider providing a notch in the Base Plate to locate the OEM bearing, however this would be a somewhat hollow exercise as the Base Plate would be a useless overkill when used with the OEM bearing or any modified version which uses the original soft fragile alluminium alloy casting.

In conclusion I must state that the fitting of my High Precision Bearing and a replacement external Power Supply of your choice are the most important upgrades that will immediately show considerable sonic improvements.
Whichever you choose to do first is optional, although I would think that replacement of the power would probably be the first choice.
Then if finances and/or inclination permit, you can get the Bearing Base Plate and at a later time the Platter.

Some however may wish to approach the problem with a big bang, and fit all the upgrades at the one time as many have, thus enjoying the immediate results of the sum total combined improvement in sound quality.

Spectral Morn
29-08-2011, 06:51
The hurricane looks to be clearing out. I did see sun for about 10 minutes or so. Luckly no (major) power outages or destruction in NYC/Westchester my area that I know of right now. But there is lots of rain to go around.

We did not get the full blast of winds that were promised in our area. Long Island (the tip that sticks out at bottom east of the NY map) always gets hit the hardest during any major storm since they are costal.


Its been a pretty eventful week for New York and the Eastern Seaboard in the USA.

Earthquake: Check
Hurricane: Check
The New York Yankees becoming the first Major League Team to hit 3 Grand Slams in a single game: You bet we have that covered.

Rumor has it that the sizmic activity that impacted the Eastern Seaboard earlier in the week has the epicenter in Westchester due to some guy drilling into his TT. Again, this is just a rumor.

Glad you are ok Mike and while a lot of damage has been done (including some deaths :() Irene did not quite damage America as badly as had been feared.

However seeing some of the streets of New York under a few feet of water was quite a dramatic thing to see.


Regards D S D L

CableMaker1
29-08-2011, 23:43
Glad you are ok Mike and while a lot of damage has been done (including some deaths :() Irene did not quite damage America as badly as had been feared.

However seeing some of the streets of New York under a few feet of water was quite a dramatic thing to see.

Regards D S D L

Thanks for the well-wishes D.

I had to work from home because the rail line I take to go to work was not operational today. There was flooding in a near-by station that my rail passes through, so passage was not going to be possible on my line. The rail line was so bad that they had to stop service on all three of their lines. Two of those lines are now back in operation, but my line is still up in the air for tomorrow.

There is also a highway which runs parallel to my station stop. This highway (along with a few others) was completely shut down due to flooding.

Power outagaes are scattered throughout NY. I am pretty fortunate that the hurricane did not impact my area.

Life should return back to normal by the end of this week for most who has been impacted throught this ordeal.

Mike

Macca
29-08-2011, 23:53
Good to hear you are all okay Mike :)

keiths
30-08-2011, 00:01
Good to hear you are all okay Mike :)

+1 Glad it wasn't quite as bad as some were predicting. We all complain about the weather over here in the UK, but we don't get much extreme stuff.

Paul Hynes
30-08-2011, 10:28
Keiths,

We get some heavy Atlantic storms in the Western Isles from time to time. A few years back before we moved here, a storm blew in and the wind speed was measured at 140 MPH. It caused widespread damage and some unfortunate people lost their lives over on the North end of the Isle of South Uist.

Paul

Pete
01-09-2011, 02:18
Mike New,

Wasn't that me who got the prototype base plate? ;)

Your bearing w/baseplate, platter, and SME armboard are still making wonderful music on my SL1210 :)

Mike_New
01-09-2011, 03:04
Hi Pete,
Yes it was you, I must have had a seniors moment, or too much red!!

MartinT
29-09-2011, 17:53
Nice one, Westchester Mike. For some reason I missed this thread completely, but you may be interested in comparing your installation with mine - I think I may have Mike New's prototype version :)

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=148988#post148988

colinB
30-09-2011, 09:43
I just read a piece on the Technics 1200 mk6 , which of course never happened.
The significant tweek seemed to be " improved damping to the motor".
I would speculate the base plate would have a similar effect.

REXTON
30-09-2011, 12:13
I just read a piece on the Technics 1200 mk6 , which of course never happened.
The significant tweek seemed to be " improved damping to the motor".
I would speculate the base plate would have a similar effect.

Colin,

Can you copy a link to this article?? It may well be that we could all use this tweek and improve our techies!!

Mike_New
01-10-2011, 00:02
I just read a piece on the Technics 1200 mk6 , which of course never happened.
The significant tweek seemed to be " improved damping to the motor".
I would speculate the base plate would have a similar effect.

My personal SL1200 is a MK6 (black) which I got from Japan fitted for 120V which of course did not worry me. I had a close look at the PCB and could not detect any real difference between it and a MK5. In fact there seems to be no difference between the MK6 and the MK5.

CableMaker1
20-10-2011, 00:57
Nice one, Westchester Mike. For some reason I missed this thread completely, but you may be interested in comparing your installation with mine - I think I may have Mike New's prototype version :)

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=148988#post148988

Hello Martin.

I do not know the differences between the prototype versus the production type bearing base plate that Mike New is offering. Mike would be the source to go to if you are intruged to find out.

I only went over it briefly, but Your thread looks like a condensed version of my thread. :eyebrows:

Your platter looks elevated from the base compared to mine. Perhaps you ordered the platter before or after purchasing the base plate? Nice work by the way!!!

The one thing your thread is missing compared to mine (which may explain why your thread is a condensed version of my thread) is the geography lesson of your location. :stalks: Remember - include pictures and exact co-ordinates when any of us wants to stop by to hear your Dynavector!!!

Is an armboard manufactured to allow Dynavector arms to be used on the Technics?

MartinT
20-10-2011, 08:47
Hi Mike

Yes, the platter is elevated and I believe Mike has changed the design slightly since then so that it sits slightly lower.

About the geography lesson - see, I just kept my head down and hoped that everyone knew where Basingstoke is. However, based on my visits to the US some of you guys don't even know where the UK is :lol:

I had my arm board custom machined in Germany but I'm sure it could be reproduced without too much difficulty and the DV website gives all the dimensions and offsets. Do you fancy one?

Mike_New
20-10-2011, 09:35
Hi folks,
In actual fact I can produce my Copper Bonded Alluminium Platters to any height, (whithin reason) The only restraining parameter is the subsequent weight. What I have tended to do for all users is to produce a platter which is about 2mm above the nominal height of the OEM platter.
But remember my Bearing Base Plate has the affrect of raising the whole assembly up by 6mm by virue of it's thickness.

The main constraint in regard to platter height (thickness) is the fact the higher we go the greater we move above the ideal level of the centre of gravity. The spindle taper really limits what we can do in this regard.
My main objective is to get the centre of gravity as low as possible with respect to the existing design contraints.
In this regard it would appear that I have been very successful , if one can judge from the number of happy users.

I have designed a new bearing which would overcome these contraints, and in fact would protrude below the existing bearing well, ( a longer bearing) but the problem is that it would never be compatible with the existing geometry of the SL1200 system. For instance the taper diameter would be much larger and therefore both the bearing and a matching platter would have to be invested in at the one time, which would entail a much higher immediate investement cost.

CableMaker1
20-10-2011, 16:20
Hi folks,
In actual fact I can produce my Copper Bonded Alluminium Platters to any height, (whithin reason) The only restraining parameter is the subsequent weight. What I have tended to do for all users is to produce a platter which is about 2mm above the nominal height of the OEM platter.
But remember my Bearing Base Plate has the affrect of raising the whole assembly up by 6mm by virue of it's thickness.

The main constraint in regard to platter height (thickness) is the fact the higher we go the greater we move above the ideal level of the centre of gravity. The spindle taper really limits what we can do in this regard.
My main objective is to get the centre of gravity as low as possible with respect to the existing design contraints.
In this regard it would appear that I have been very successful , if one can judge from the number of happy users.

I have designed a new bearing which would overcome these contraints, and in fact would protrude below the existing bearing well, ( a longer bearing) but the problem is that it would never be compatible with the existing geometry of the SL1200 system. For instance the taper diameter would be much larger and therefore both the bearing and a matching platter would have to be invested in at the one time, which would entail a much higher immediate investement cost.

And how many people are alredy lined up to buy Mikes new Bearing and Platter combo???

CableMaker1
20-10-2011, 16:27
Hi Mike

Yes, the platter is elevated and I believe Mike has changed the design slightly since then so that it sits slightly lower.

About the geography lesson - see, I just kept my head down and hoped that everyone knew where Basingstoke is. However, based on my visits to the US some of you guys don't even know where the UK is :lol:

I had my arm board custom machined in Germany but I'm sure it could be reproduced without too much difficulty and the DV website gives all the dimensions and offsets. Do you fancy one?

My twins are quite happy with their SME arms installed. (I would have prefered a silver finish on the arms though.) Had I known that it would be possible to put a Dynavector on the Technics, I would have taken that route.

Have you ever had a bakeoff between an SME versus your Dynavector? If so, what were the results?

And of course all Americans know that the UK is located somewhere in Great Britiain, which is located on the 5th planet of our Solar System. (And some people think the world is round. Sheesh...)

MartinT
20-10-2011, 20:54
Have you ever had a bakeoff between an SME versus your Dynavector? If so, what were the results?

Not directly, no. I used to have an SME IV and a thing of beauty it was, too. However, it never achieved the kind of awesome sound that the DV creates, albeit on a different deck.

CableMaker1
20-10-2011, 23:44
How does the Dynavector handle warps? My only complaint performance wise about the SME vs. the Technics is that the SME does not handle warps well.

MartinT
21-10-2011, 04:29
the DV is a warp king and tracks them with seeming impunity. You can't even hear them most of the time. It's the low mass stub-arm that achieves it.

REXTON
21-10-2011, 09:40
How does the Dynavector handle warps? My only complaint performance wise about the SME vs. the Technics is that the SME does not handle warps well.

How have you got your SME set up, mine tracks perfectly.

misterharrison
28-11-2011, 20:44
8fq_U_eGr-Y

REXTON
30-11-2011, 21:52
Relevance??:scratch:

misterharrison
30-11-2011, 23:06
He's from Westchester!





Keep up at the back... :doh:

Spectral Morn
30-11-2011, 23:11
How have you got your SME set up, mine tracks perfectly.


As does mine :scratch:


Regards D S D L

REXTON
01-12-2011, 15:23
As does mine :scratch:


Regards D S D L

Glad to hear it! :scratch:

RobbieGong
15-11-2014, 18:05
Anyone in the London area fitted the Mike New bearing baseplate ??

CableMaker1
15-11-2014, 18:49
I am not from London, but if you are thinking of investing in the Mike New Baseplate, I highly recommend it.

maybe Marco may be using the baseplate as he is much closer than I towards London. From what I last remember, he is nearly 200 miles away from London. I am just a mere few thousands of miles away.

CableMaker1
15-11-2014, 18:50
Can someone make this a sticky again?

Mike_New
15-11-2014, 21:52
Martin Taylor fitted one of the first batch of Bearing Base Plates that I made using the bolting method rather than the epoxy method now used.
He lives near Newbury I believe.

Marco
15-11-2014, 22:18
Hi Mike,


Can someone make this a sticky again?

Done! :)

Yup, I use one of the baseplates, but am quite a distance from London. Aside from that, the BBP offers a significant and fundamental sonic improvement for the Technics - and your pictures earlier in this thread show precisely why…...

Marco.

RobbieGong
15-11-2014, 23:02
I know I'm more than competant enough to do this myself. I fitted my external psu, Mike New bearing and ETP platter without any issues. The bearing baseplate 'feels' a bit more involved going by the instructions I received with it and the instructions and pics on this thread. I really dont think there's much margin for mistakes with dismantling of pcb and gubbings, drilling, gluing with strong epoxy and putting pcb and bits back. I'll tackle it soon as I'm sure it will be a very worthwhile upgrade :)

Marco
15-11-2014, 23:23
You’ll love the effect, Rob.

I mean just look at how little of the chassis is properly supporting the bearing, without the BBP in place, as it teeters on the edge of a big hole, ‘floating’ rather precariously on top of three raised screw threads:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/CLqBUn.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/5V8ZC6.jpg


How can that possibly offer a secure foundation for supporting the bearing? It is a fundamental weakness of the Technics, and as is shown below, the BBP solves it:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/xDf68X.jpg


…by allowing the bearing to sit flush on top of the chassis, and thus be firmly coupled to it, as is the case on all other properly engineered high-end turntables, such as for example, on a Garrard 301:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/907/qBdiFs.jpg


The difference this makes over the stock arrangement on the Technics, in terms of bass weight and authority/lowered noise-floor, has to be heard to be believed!

Marco.

CableMaker1
15-11-2014, 23:33
Thanks much Marco!!!

RobbieGong
16-11-2014, 16:27
You’ll love the effect, Rob.

I mean just look at how little of the chassis is properly supporting the bearing, without the BBP in place, as it teeters on the edge of a big hole, ‘floating’ rather precariously on top of three raised screw threads:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/CLqBUn.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/5V8ZC6.jpg


How can that possibly offer a secure foundation for supporting the bearing? It is a fundamental weakness of the Technics, and as is shown below, the BBP solves it:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/xDf68X.jpg


…by allowing the bearing to sit flush on top of the chassis, and thus be firmly coupled to it, as is the case on all other properly engineered high-end turntables, such as for example, on a Garrard 301:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/907/qBdiFs.jpg


The difference this makes over the stock arrangement on the Technics, in terms of bass weight and authority/lowered noise-floor, has to be heard to be believed!

Marco.

I agree Marco. The stock arrangement is certainly not ideal for something as robust and well engineered as the MN bearing.

RobbieGong
29-11-2014, 16:18
Right guys, I'm gone in ! :eek: Stuck at first hurdle :doh: Could someone kindly tell me exactly what Mikes instruction are referring to under Disassembly, item f) it says ' Carefully remove the three plugs attached to the cable forms from the main circuit board. One on each side of the board, (top, bottom and right hand side, when viewed from above.) Note: you may need to clip the cable clamps on the bottom cable form to give more freedom'. Any pics showing this would be much appreciated. As you can imagine, any f ups during this job could prove costly so better extra safe than sorry!

RobbieGong
29-11-2014, 16:29
On a side note. I'm beginning to realise even more just how involved this is and that the pcb and all the wires (basically all the Techies gubbins have to come out and then be re: attached). I'd appreciated advise on the easiest way to do this. (I dont like messing with loads of wires, for fear of mixing them up, plus having to put them all back, but in this case I know I have to and so be it)

Marco
29-11-2014, 16:40
One tip, Rob, with wiring, is to take a nice close-up picture of things as they are before you start the dismantling process, then you have a guide as to how they should be when you’ve finished.

Sorry I can’t help you with anything else, but good luck! :)

Marco.

RobbieGong
29-11-2014, 17:15
One tip, Rob, with wiring, is to take a nice close-up picture of things as they are before you start the dismantling process, then you have a guide as to how they should be when you’ve finished.

Sorry I can’t help you with anything else, but good luck! :)

Marco.

Great idea Marco - Thanks, Will defo do that. Looking down at my pcb with all the wires / plugs attached, I can see that I basically need to carefully unplug the plugs from the pcb and unsolder the wires which come from the external ps to the circuit board as per the instructions. Then unscrew the three black screws which hold the bearing in place and carefully lift the circuit board upwards and remove the bearing. Not gonna rush any of this. Pity it's dark now as I have to be at my sisters for 7pm to celebrate my twin niece and nephews birthday so I'll tackle this a bit at a time, as and when time permits :)

RobbieGong
30-11-2014, 10:18
Hi Mike,

On your instructions you refer to an arrow marked top. My base plate has no markings or arrow on it whatsoever - Is this ok ?

Mike_New
30-11-2014, 21:16
Hi Robbie,
Did you get your Base Plate from Dave??
In the earlier version of the Base Plate when it was attached to the chassis with bolts, an arrow indicating "UP" was placed on the Base Plate, as the bolts holes were not symetrical about the centre.
In the newer version which is attached to the chassis with epoxy resin there are only the three Bearing bolt holes to worry about,
However it was sugested that one of the three possible positions be marked "UP" so as not to cause any confusion, "to wit".

RobbieGong
30-11-2014, 21:22
Hi Robbie,
Did you get your Base Plate from Dave??
In the earlier version of the Base Plate when it was attached to the chassis with bolts, an arrow indicating "UP" was placed on the Base Plate, as the bolts holes were not symetrical about the centre.
In the newer version which is attached to the chassis with epoxy resin there are only the three Bearing bolt holes to worry about,
However it was sugested that one of the three possible positions be marked "UP" so as not to cause any confusion, "to wit".

Cool Mike and thanks. Yes, mine will be a newer one. The three bearing bolt holes are nice and symmetrical as you've pointed out so I've nothing to worry about, just thought I'd check. Didn't want to ask after epoxy applied and well and truly set :eek:

worrasf
13-12-2014, 19:42
I have had my MN bearing a goodly while and am more than happy with how much it has improved the SQ over the stock and Vantage bearing. I have angsted over the base plate as I can totally see how it would improve SQ still further but I just don't want the platter lifted higher (Funk and bonded achromat) and if I'm honest didn't want to shell out any more dollar. So, after much thought and trepidation I decided I would permanently bond the bearing to the chassis thereby realizing the sonic benefits of improved structural rigidity. This is not for the timid as it is irreversible but having done it I can report definite improvement in low level detail (especially instruments "well back in the mix") and tighter, deeper bass - plucked double bass in particular.

I wanted to take the deck down to remove the pitch control as I've just bought a new top plate with no cut outs for the pitch control or 45rpm adapter so this was the ideal opportunity to "do the bearing"

Having totally dismantled the deck and removed the bearing I thoroughly cleaned the bearing case and the bearing well with acetone before pouring 25ml (20ml would be better I think) of mixed fibre glass resin into the bearing well. This has about 5 minutes of working time and sets in 20 minutes so you need to be nifty. Having partially filled the well I then gently placed the MN bearing into the resin and secured as usual with the 3 motor bolts and PCB screws - you need to fit the PCB because there is a deal of play in the bearing with just the 3 bolts. The bearing will displace some resin out of the well which will fill the void between the undersurface of the bearing and the chassis which results from the 3 proud mounting lugs. All the bolts and PCB screws were fully tightened and the assembly left for 60 minutes for the resin to fully harden.

There is no going back after this! If you FUBAR the deck is scrap!! There is no way to remove the bearing. Like as not you will also find that the 3 bolts will be fixed solid as a bit if resin will find its way into the threads even if like me you remove, clean and reinsert them. However, this is not FUBAR because if you do need to remove the PCB in future you can drill out the bolt heads and slip the PCB off and then (probably) remove the bolts with a mole grip.

Having reassembled the motor fired up no problem ( phew) and the improvement in timing and detail and bass was instantly obvious. So this "tweak" worked out very well but as I say does have the potential to seriously spoil your day if you get it wrong.

As a bonus having removed the pitch control I connected the earth wire that was previously attached to it and the arm board so that the arm board was earthed direct to the PCB earth screw instead - this totally removed the little bit of hum I was getting previously since installing the Croft MC headamp. previously with no music playing there would be audible hum with the volume pots above about 5, now I can wind them right up with no hum at all!

So all in all a very worthwhile few hours

Not attached and piccies as there really isn't anything to show

Andrei
13-12-2014, 21:26
Not attached and piccies as there really isn't anything to show
Go on, show us your new top plate and I'll give you a wine gum.

Very innovative idea Stephen. It should not have been too scary for you though. If you pull peoples faces apart for a living ... somewhat more 'mission critical'?
You have got me thinking though! The idea would not work for the standard bearing as that should have the option of removing it every now and then for a service. There may be other things that could be plugged into the bearing well that would increase rigidity. hmmmmm

worrasf
13-12-2014, 21:36
Too kind!
Definitely wouldn't work with the standard bearing or any variant with an "open thrust plate" design as the resin would foul the bushings - only an option with a fully enclosed design like the MN
I'll get some piccies together shortly

Mike_New
13-12-2014, 21:56
I honestly do not like the idea of permanently bonding my Bearing into the chassis, as you say Stephen it is rather radical, whether you use epoxy resin or fibre glass resin. There are many reasons why you just might want to remove the bearing or disassemble the whole unit.
My Bearing Base Plate is not expensive and although permanent when installed, is does allow the removal of the Bearing and PCB with ease. It also permits the use of the special steel bolts which allow for much heavier clamping force onto the Base Plate. You must understand that these bolts not only hold the Bearing down, they also serve to clamp the stator assembly of the actual motor to the Base Plate. (or the chassis in the OEM state)
Secondly the BBP covers a very large central area of the chassis which is the weakest area and so it offers greater rigidity as a mechanical structure.

worrasf
13-12-2014, 22:14
Hi Mike.
Wouldn't disagree with any of that. My "tweak" comes with a health warning but definitely works in terms of improved low level detail retrieval and bass extension and control which I understand is what the base plate offers,
This is clearly an "off licence" solution and I can totally understand why you would not support it. However, I'm a Black Country man living in Yorkshire so have short arms and deep pockets :wink:

Marco
13-12-2014, 22:16
My Bearing Base Plate is not expensive and although permanent when installed, is does allow the removal of the Bearing and PCB with ease. It also permits the use of the special steel bolts which allow for much heavier clamping force onto the Base Plate. You must understand that these bolts not only hold the Bearing down, they also serve to clamp the stator assembly of the actual motor to the Base Plate. (or the chassis in the OEM state)
Secondly the BBP covers a very large central area of the chassis which is the weakest area and so it offers greater rigidity as a mechanical structure.

Indeed, Mike - and quite simply, it allows the bearing itself to perform to its full sonic potential. I was shocked and stunned at just how much more ‘grown up’, weighty and purposeful sounding my SL-1210 was after fitting the BBP, having up until then used one of your bearings (and loved it), but not realising *just* how good things could get!! :)

Marco.

Mike_New
13-12-2014, 22:19
How can I argue with a man from Yorkshire especially one with short arms.

Audio Al
14-12-2014, 06:43
especially one with short arms.

And short legs :lol: ;)

worrasf
14-12-2014, 07:20
I'll have you know my legs are perfectly proportioned :rolleyes:

Audio Al
14-12-2014, 07:28
I'll have you know my legs are perfectly proportioned :rolleyes:

Opps !

Thought we were referring to our leader

Ammonite Acoustics
14-12-2014, 07:47
I have had my MN bearing a goodly while and am more than happy with how much it has improved the SQ over the stock and Vantage bearing. I have angsted over the base plate as I can totally see how it would improve SQ still further but I just don't want the platter lifted higher (Funk and bonded achromat) and if I'm honest didn't want to shell out any more dollar. So, after much thought and trepidation I decided I would permanently bond the bearing to the chassis thereby realizing the sonic benefits of improved structural rigidity. This is not for the timid as it is irreversible but having done it I can report definite improvement in low level detail (especially instruments "well back in the mix") and tighter, deeper bass - plucked double bass in particular.

I wanted to take the deck down to remove the pitch control as I've just bought a new top plate with no cut outs for the pitch control or 45rpm adapter so this was the ideal opportunity to "do the bearing"

Having totally dismantled the deck and removed the bearing I thoroughly cleaned the bearing case and the bearing well with acetone before pouring 25ml (20ml would be better I think) of mixed fibre glass resin into the bearing well. This has about 5 minutes of working time and sets in 20 minutes so you need to be nifty. Having partially filled the well I then gently placed the MN bearing into the resin and secured as usual with the 3 motor bolts and PCB screws - you need to fit the PCB because there is a deal of play in the bearing with just the 3 bolts. The bearing will displace some resin out of the well which will fill the void between the undersurface of the bearing and the chassis which results from the 3 proud mounting lugs. All the bolts and PCB screws were fully tightened and the assembly left for 60 minutes for the resin to fully harden.

There is no going back after this! If you FUBAR the deck is scrap!! There is no way to remove the bearing. Like as not you will also find that the 3 bolts will be fixed solid as a bit if resin will find its way into the threads even if like me you remove, clean and reinsert them. However, this is not FUBAR because if you do need to remove the PCB in future you can drill out the bolt heads and slip the PCB off and then (probably) remove the bolts with a mole grip.

Having reassembled the motor fired up no problem ( phew) and the improvement in timing and detail and bass was instantly obvious. So this "tweak" worked out very well but as I say does have the potential to seriously spoil your day if you get it wrong.

As a bonus having removed the pitch control I connected the earth wire that was previously attached to it and the arm board so that the arm board was earthed direct to the PCB earth screw instead - this totally removed the little bit of hum I was getting previously since installing the Croft MC headamp. previously with no music playing there would be audible hum with the volume pots above about 5, now I can wind them right up with no hum at all!

So all in all a very worthwhile few hours

Not attached and piccies as there really isn't anything to show

I would have used beeswax instead - it's still used for temporary mounting of accelerometers since its vibration transmission characteristics are rather good.

worrasf
14-12-2014, 08:17
I would have used beeswax instead - it's still used for temporary mounting of accelerometers since its vibration transmission characteristics are rather good.

Before this intervention I used the KAB thrust plate support wax which is very similar to the bees wax. As I posted previously it did indeed improve over no support but the "resin bonded" solution resulted in a significant improvement over the KAB wax. The main areas are in low level detail retrieval and improved timing

worrasf
14-12-2014, 12:16
Indeed, Mike - and quite simply, it allows the bearing itself to perform to its full sonic potential. I was shocked and stunned at just how much more ‘grown up’, weighty and purposeful sounding my SL-1210 was after fitting the BBP, having up until then used one of your bearings (and loved it), but not realising *just* how good things could get!! :)

Marco.

Having listened to the deck a few hours this morning with the "bonded bearing" I am astounded just how much better all music genres are sounding now. It's not just the bass that benefits. There is a tangible improvement in grip and timing across all frequencies resulting in a more lifelike and natural presentation - these improvements are not subtle IMO.

I would hesitate to say ( but I will) that the improvement is so great due to the greater rigidity and stability of the bearing that anyone considering a MN bearing should give serious consideration to getting a base plate at the same time and have done with it.

Because of the irreversible nature of the way I have mounted my bearing I would not suggest this is a route many would want to follow and would support Mike's view that the base plate is the preferred option but I can categorically say that my "bonded bearing" solution gives a significant improvement in SQ - actually it's remarkable how much better it is.

Steve

REXTON
14-12-2014, 12:33
Having listened to the deck a few hours this morning with the "bonded bearing" I am astounded just how much better all music genres are sounding now. It's not just the bass that benefits. There is a tangible improvement in grip and timing across all frequencies resulting in a more lifelike and natural presentation - these improvements are not subtle IMO.

I would hesitate to say ( but I will) that the improvement is so great due to the greater rigidity and stability of the bearing that anyone considering a MN bearing should give serious consideration to getting a base plate at the same time and have done with it.

Because of the irreversible nature of the way I have mounted my bearing I would not suggest this is a route many would want to follow and would support Mike's view that the base plate is the preferred option but I can categorically say that my "bonded bearing" solution gives a significant improvement in SQ - actually it's remarkable how much better it is.

Steve

Steve,

I did this mod years ago and have never looked back. Welcome to the club.

worrasf
14-12-2014, 12:53
Steve,

I did this mod years ago and have never looked back. Welcome to the club.

Outstanding!
Glad I'm not just guilty of "emperors new clothes" syndrome.
Did you use liquid resin like I did or epoxy?

CageyH
14-12-2014, 13:45
Would wax not do the same thing, with the added advantage of being able to be removed?

worrasf
14-12-2014, 13:55
Would wax not do the same thing, with the added advantage of being able to be removed?

Nope! See post 115 above for my experiences with both

Marco
14-12-2014, 16:20
Having listened to the deck a few hours this morning with the "bonded bearing" I am astounded just how much better all music genres are sounding now. It's not just the bass that benefits. There is a tangible improvement in grip and timing across all frequencies resulting in a more lifelike and natural presentation - these improvements are not subtle IMO.


Eventually, sometimes later rather than sooner, the message hits home... ;)


I would hesitate to say ( but I will) that the improvement is so great due to the greater rigidity and stability of the bearing that anyone considering a MN bearing should give serious consideration to getting a base plate at the same time and have done with it.


Precisely my thoughts, Steve. Why own a superbly engineered bearing, but only be able to realise 80% of its sonic capability? :)

Marco.

REXTON
14-12-2014, 17:09
Outstanding!
Glad I'm not just guilty of "emperors new clothes" syndrome.
Did you use liquid resin like I did or epoxy?

Epoxy, and a mini spirit level to make sure the bearing sat true.


Would wax not do the same thing, with the added advantage of being able to be removed?

Wouldn't wax eventually dry out?

RobbieGong
21-12-2014, 16:33
I got some time on Saturday and set to installing the MN base plate bearing in time for Christmas. My deck has been out of action since earlier in the year so I'm desperate to get it up and running again. All was good initially, psb removed etc. The problem I've encountered is at the stage in Mikes instructions, where you put the bearing inside the base plate hole, put the pcb over and on top and then secure these together with the three long slim black Allen headed screws / bolts supplied. I spent literally hours trying to get all three screws to locate into the baseplate. I'd maybe get two in but the third would be nigh on impossible to locate. I think I just about managed it once but no matter how delicately and slowly I turned the screws, one after the other it would cause the base plate to lift away from the flat shoulders of the bearing. Basically the plate would just not stay flat and flush against the flat of the bearing shoulders. As I say this was the one time I could get all three screws to locate / bite. After that I just could not get the third screw to locate / bite no matter how much I tried. I gave up in the end with very sore fingers after all the screw turning and allen key rotating - Extremely frustrating.

I am most certainly not inept at this sort of thing having fitted my MN bearing, MN ETP platter and removed the stock psu and fitted my external psu. I can only conclude that maybe the holes in the base plate are not perfectly accurate. They may seem to be by eye. As a result, I think that the most minute discrepancy is causing there to be maybe a need for the minutest degree of flex in the base plate I have which of course being very solid brass there wont be.
I emailed Mike last night and still await his expert view. In the meantime, Has anyone else encountered anything like this with their baseplate / install ?? :(

Mike_New
22-12-2014, 08:25
Hi Robert,
Firstly I did not know that DB was making the Base Plates from Brass. My specification was to use Mild Steel plate as this privides a much stronger thread for the three steel bolts. Do not force the bolts otherwise you will strip the threads, although it would seem that the threaded holes are not exactly positioned, either as to the angular position (120deg) or the diametric distance.
You will have to get DB to send you a replacement.

RobbieGong
24-12-2014, 23:18
Right ! I've just applied the epoxy :eek:

worrasf
31-12-2014, 14:56
Go on, show us your new top plate and I'll give you a wine gum.



I claim my wine gum Andrei :)

Just gotten around to taking a photo of the top plate sans slider and disc adapter cut outs.

I'm very pleased with the looks.

Steve

Macca
31-12-2014, 16:00
That does look very classy, Stephen.

worrasf
31-12-2014, 16:35
Thanks

Marco
31-12-2014, 17:04
That looks superb, Stephen! Did you do the work yourself, and if so, would you consider doing it for others (for an appropriate fee)? I’d quite fancy something like that myself :)

Marco.

worrasf
31-12-2014, 17:14
Thanks Marco. All I did was remove pitch assembly etc. I bought the top plate off a guy on eBay - he did it as a "special" but still only charged £45 inc p&p which I think is darn good. I sourced the Technics logo plate from an eBay seller in Australia.

Marco
31-12-2014, 17:28
Cool… Got a link to the ebay ad you used? :)

Marco.

worrasf
31-12-2014, 17:40
They trade under the name "chill grills.com" they fabricate specialist grilles for VW's as well as these plates. If you go to their website the link to the Technics top plates is on the home page. All of the various styles are shown. They didn't list what I wanted ie plane without cutouts for pitch and disc adapter so I just emailed and they did a special. Very helpful
Steve

worrasf
31-12-2014, 17:41
www.chillgrills.com

Tarzan
31-12-2014, 19:42
That cover does look sweet Steve.:cool:

Andrei
01-01-2015, 10:12
I claim my wine gum Andrei :)

Just gotten around to taking a photo of the top plate sans slider and disc adapter cut outs.
I'm very pleased with the looks.
Steve
You do seem to come up with some interesting ideas Steve. That is a pretty decent faceplate - certainly worth a packet of winegums, and half a pound of acid drops, nigger balls & mackintosh toffees. I would get one but I've done my dash for the moment with a new amp, pre-amp and a pair of telefunken valves.

Andrei
01-01-2015, 10:17
double post

Marco
01-01-2015, 12:49
They trade under the name "chill grills.com" they fabricate specialist grilles for VW's as well as these plates. If you go to their website the link to the Technics top plates is on the home page. All of the various styles are shown. They didn't list what I wanted ie plane without cutouts for pitch and disc adapter so I just emailed and they did a special. Very helpful
Steve

Interesting, Steve. If I bought all the bits, would you remove the pitch control and stuff on my T/T and then fit the new top-plate? I’d bring my T/T to you and we could tie it in with a music sesh, as West Yorkshire isn’t too far away! I’d also pay you for your trouble :)

PM me, if you fancy it :cool:

I’m thinking brushed stainless steel, or even gloss white could be cool….

Marco.

JazzBones
01-01-2015, 13:06
I claim my wine gum Andrei :)

Just gotten around to taking a photo of the top plate sans slider and disc adapter cut outs.

I'm very pleased with the looks.

Steve

Just seen this, looks stunningly good in the photo and I would imagine in reality... do tell? Would the Company who made this for you do a similar one but also blank out the barrel on/off switch and the pop up target light leaving just the squared of holes on the bottom left for On/Off and 45+33rpm speed selection, in other words just cut outs for the latter and of course the arm mounting plate? If they do I will be ordering one minus the Techy logo as technically (no pun intended :eyebrows:) with all the mods and upgrades I have done in the past five years, it isn't strictly speaking a Techy as such anymore. By the way is your top plate bonded to your deck of just friction fitted?

As for irreversibly bonding your MN bearing to the main chassis you are a brave man. I was one of the early adopters of the MN bearing and base plate and when I bought my BBP direct from MN he drilled three additional countersunk holes alongside the five fixing bolt holes so that I could further secure my MN bearing to the base plate first prior to fitting the entire assembly to the main chassis with the addition of breakable automotive gasket paste should I ever wish to renew the bearing but I guess the bearing is going to outlast me! Somewhere in the historic and ancient vaults of AoS Marco did publish my work relating the foregoing but I guess by now its long gone... I was motivated my Cablemaker1 of this parish who had also published details of his work on a sticky here.

Your deck, as it stands, now looks a true classic.

All the best for 2015,

Ron

worrasf
01-01-2015, 14:08
Thanks Ron - I'm really pleased with the way it's turned out both sonic and visual. I'd be pretty confident that they could do you a "special" from what I can gather the factory has a press to fabricate these and they can change the die settings - drop them a line on their website. Regarding bonding they supply some double sided tape but I elected to leave it as a simple friction fit in case I needed to get at the OEM top plate or put it back into original spec (pretty rich seeing as I bonded the MN bearing in)
BTW the logo was sourced from a different supplier so no worries for you on that front
Steve

JazzBones
01-01-2015, 14:33
Thanks Ron - I'm really pleased with the way it's turned out both sonic and visual. I'd be pretty confident that they could do you a "special" from what I can gather the factory has a press to fabricate these and they can change the die settings - drop them a line on their website. Regarding bonding they supply some double sided tape but I elected to leave it as a simple friction fit in case I needed to get at the OEM top plate or put it back into original spec (pretty rich seeing as I bonded the MN bearing in)
BTW the logo was sourced from a different supplier so no worries for you on that front
Steve

Thanks Steve, useful info for me as all I have to do now to my Tech is to improve the appearance overall, at the moment I have used Carbon fibre sheet cut to correct tolerance and thence bonded but I now want to move away from this to something more classical as per your endeavour. I shall let the festive season finish and then get in touch with 'chillgrills.com', in the meantime I shall give consideration as to a final look that I want... Marco mentioned stainless steel but that would clash with the shine of my MN Cu/Al platter. With piano black I would imagine that finger marks would eventually irritate, maybe a powdered grey/black finish to match my classic Naim amps should be considered, what think you?

Cheers mate, now back to my tumbler of Scotch... just to see in 2015 of course :)

PS: Who did your logo for you and I'm assuming it come with adhesive backing?

Ron

worrasf
01-01-2015, 15:41
Hi Ron

name plate from here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261688732826?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT - yes adhesive backing.

Happy New Year

Steve

JazzBones
01-01-2015, 16:28
Hi Ron

name plate from here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261688732826?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT - yes adhesive backing.

Happy New Year

Steve

Mucho thanks Steve for the info and in response to my queries.

Happy and content 2015 to you and yours.

Ron

RobbieGong
31-03-2015, 22:02
Hi guys, At long long last I'm a position to give a genuinely critical analysis / evaluation of the Mike New bearing base plate in my system or more to the point, how my system now sounds with the addition of the bearing base plate. I actually fitted the base plate a while back but couldn't evaluate for a number of reasons. 1. The BBP raises the platter by 6mm so what I found was that I needed more height at the back of the arm. So courtesy of Speedy Steve a new ebony armboard was ordered with a lesser dishing of 4.5mm as opposed to 8mm of my original. 2. Finding the sweetspot for the 2M Black is a PITA and has taken me an absolute age, fiddling and adjusting vta via on the fly BUT at long long blinking last I've hit it. So....

The Sound - I've listened to about 4 sides so far Dennis Brown - Love has found it's way lp and Bobby Caldwell's self titled lp from 1978. These are sides I'm very familiar with. First thing I noticed was darker / blacker quiet passages. Then the more I listened it was clear there was more insight into the recording ie: a genuine human being in front of a mike, the breaths, the expression, much more tangible and real as if the speakers have got out of the way. Same with the instruments, individual textures but in a life like sense. The other thing is there is an evenness to the overall frequency range ie: more flat / neutral, no frequencies are over emphasised, the balance is so welcome. There's a real sense of the individual playing of instruments as in someone playing not just music playing. So addictive, I really dont know what else to say apart from this is not all down to the BBP alone, however it is absolutely obvious to me that the BBP has taken things to another level in terms of how things sounded prior to install and that was damn good anyway let me tell you.

I would recommend the BBP with the MN bearing without hesitation as together we are talking 'audiophile' genuine hi-fidelity - honest not glossed over vinyl replay, which is what happens whenever a 'proper' component part is installed alongside the removal / replacement of resonant parts / noise inducers etc. That 'rightness' in replay starts to come through and it's why I've never stopped upgrading the Techie cause you dont half get back what you put in.

In terms of install, I'd say that it isnt hard but it takes care and concentration. Take it nice and easy and follow the instructions carefully ! Applying the epoxy was a squeaky bum moment as it's a kind of ' this baseplate really really needs to be dead centre' moment !!! :eek: Cant tell you how glad I am that I did it though. Marco said I'd love it and boy was he right !! :D :D :D
(btw - you know things are good when you find yourself thinking 'I'd never sell this deck!') :exactly:

I'm in big trouble now as I cant stop playing music and should really go to bed. I've started a new role in my organisation and have a training sesh in the morning etc etc oh boy !! :rolleyes: ;)
Bless
Rob

Mike_New
31-03-2015, 23:26
Hi Robert,
Yea your right in observing that the only tricky part is ensuring that the Bearing Base Plate is central when you leave the epoxy to set.
But if my Instructions are followed carefully using the three bolts to locate the position of the BBP, people should not have any problem.

CageyH
01-04-2015, 05:37
Does the plate have to raise the platter by 6mm, or could a thinner plate be manufactured?
I am assuming that it's a 6mm plate in the statement above, so it sounds like it's capable of taking a direct hit from a ballistic missile.

The only reason I ask is that I don't have an additional 6mm of adjustment available.
I am also not sure that a new armboard for my arm will be that easy to manufacture.

Mike_New
01-04-2015, 06:21
I decided on a thickness of 6mm as this provides the maximum amount of solidity for the bearing whithout being any thicker.
A lot of people complain that they cannot get their new tone arms down low enough so it's difficult to cater for all combinations.

CageyH
02-04-2015, 11:03
Mike,

I understand it's difficult to cater for all combinations.
By using a 4mm plate would there be a loss in rigidity?

It could make the difference between doing the project, or forgetting it due to requiring an expensive armboard upgrade.

Mike_New
02-04-2015, 12:01
i could certainly offer 4mm thick Base Plates if that is what people want.

ChrisKemp
03-04-2015, 19:26
I claim my wine gum Andrei :)

Just gotten around to taking a photo of the top plate sans slider and disc adapter cut outs.

I'm very pleased with the looks.

Steve
What is that big metal sylynder on top of your tonearm?? Mine is just a small screw lid for the oil well....s that an upgrade part??

Mike_New
24-08-2015, 07:28
Hi Folks,
I wish people would ask me these questions here instead of by email.
I have been asked if the Bearing Base Plate can be painted. The answer of course is YES.
Excepting than the underside which is epoxied to the chassis must not be, for obvious reasons.

ChrisKemp
09-10-2015, 09:19
Any bearing base plates left, Mike:eyebrows: I sent you an email...

Mike_New
09-10-2015, 10:58
Yes I currently have 2 available at this time and one more blank to be machined.
These may be the last as it is not sensible to keep on making one-offs every 6 weeks or so.

Mike_New
10-11-2015, 03:16
Instructions for Bonding the Bearing Base Plate to the SL1200
Issue:-- 3 (01-04-14)

Note: These Instructions should be read and understood before proceeding with fitting the Bearing Base Plate.

Every effort has been made to ensure that these Instructions are clear and unambiguous; follow them carefully.

Note: These Instructions assume that the customer has replaced the Technics Power supply with an External Power Supply and that the old transformer and small circuit board have been removed. Also that the customer has fitted my ‘High Precision Bearing’

Tools required:
a) Posidrive screwdriver to remove the three black bolts that hold down the coil assembly and bearing. (a Phillips screwdriver may be used with care.)
b) Allen Key to fit the new 1/8” Whit bolts for the bearing and coil assembly.
c) 10mm or 3/8” drill
d) Power Drill (optional)
e) Soldering Iron (to remove PS wires if required)
f) Clean workbench on which to carry out this exciting task, the kitchen work-top is ideal!!! (check with she who commands)
g) Large soft towel (to protect Platter top)
h) Smooth file (without handle)
i) Sheet of course sand paper or emery cloth.
j) Araldite Two Part High Strength Epoxy
k) Acetone or Metholated Spirits

Disassembly

a) Remove all power from the SL1200 before proceeding

b) Remove the top Hinged cover if you have one

c) Clamp down the Tone Arm and fit cover to stylus.

d) Remove the platter by inserting fingers into the two holes and pulling upwards.

e) Remove the five screws holding the large black cover (with radial slots for ventilation) remove the cover.

f) Carefully remove the three plugs attached to the cable forms from the main circuit board. One on each side of the board, (top, bottom and right hand side, when viewed from above.) Note: you may need to clip the cable clamps on the bottom cable form to give more freedom.

g) Now unsolder the wires, which come from the external power supply to the circuit board. Mark which is positive and which is negative. If it is a ‘Time Step’ power supply, the Negative (earth) should be connected to the bottom left hand corner of PCB. (If this is not the case, it should be relocated to this position on re-assembly.) The positive will be connected at the top of the board, note the position for re-soldering. In the case of the ‘KAB’ PS the DC power is connected to the two pins at the bottom left hand corner of the PCB. next to the big capacitor.
In the case of the Paul Hynes power supply, you will need to decide the best way to disconnect the wiring depending on the options you have.

h) Now remove the three self-tapping screws, which hold down the circuit board (Top Right, Bottom Right, and Bottom Left hand corners.) Use the correct size Posidrive or Phillips screwdriver.

i) Now remove the three long screws equally spaced around the motor coil assembly, these are black in colour. (these screws clamp the coil assembly and bearing to the main chassis.)

j) Carefully lift the circuit board upwards and remove the Bearing from the bearing cavity while observing how the bearing housing fits into the three curved slots of the main circuit board.

Note: You may be fitting the Base Plate to an SL1200, which already has my High Precision Bearing. In which case the following Instruction are valid also.

If you are fitting my Bearing and Bonded Base Plate as a kit, which replaces the original bearing; then the following procedure must be carried out.

With small side-cutters or nail scissors carefully trim the component wires that poke through on the soldered-track side of the circuit board, in the area of the circular body of the new bearing housing. Nip the wires neatly to immediately above the solder dome. There will be three sets of 6 wires.

Installation of the Bearing and Bearing Base Plate.

a) Firstly we need to remove the top surface of the three lugs, which protrude above the level of the chassis at the edge of the bearing well where the three bolts fit. This is easily done, by using the 3/8” (10mm) drill, to drill them out. You can either use the drill in the hand by twisting as you push down, or use a power drill, remove just enough to make them level with the bottom of the chassis.

b) Now with the file laid flat onto the surface, clean off any rough parts to the work just done.

c) Place the three long tensile bolts into the holes and screw down until they protrude below the bottom of the Base Plate by about 2mm

d) Place the Base Plate onto the cast alluminium alloy chassis so that the three protruding bolts on the underside of the Base Plate locate into the three holes in the lugs, which you have just leveled off. Make sure that the arrow marked “TOP” is pointing to the rear of the chassis. (the top is when looking down onto the unit)

e) NOTE: There may be some instances where the old Power supply has been left in position. In which situation the Base Plate will be prevented from locating correctly by the transformer and small circuit board. If you are adamant that you require to leave the old power supply in position then you will need to cut away that part of the Base Plate which interferes with the power supply. The Base Plate has been designed for maximum effectiveness as it is, cutting some of it away is not the preferred option!!

f) Now with the base plate located in position by the three protruding bolts, mark around the base plate with a felt pen.

g) Remove the Base Plate and proceed to totally remove the grey paint inside the circle with course sand paper or emery paper.

h) NOTE: On some chassis’s there may be lettering molded into the die-casting which falls within the circle marked out in (f) above. Remove this lettering with a Dremel grinder or the sharp end of a file. A sharp knife will also do the job.

i) Remove the three bolts in the base plate and set to one side.

j) Now Clean the underside of the Base Plate and the chassis area with Acetone.

k) Insert the bearing into the central hole of the Base Plate. Make sure which is the top surface of the Base Plate.

l) Now position the Base Plate so that the arrow is facing away from you and place the PCB onto the bearing, ensuring that the three Bearing posts correctly locate into the slots in the PCB.

m) Now insert the three long bolts supplied into the holes in the coil assembly lamination stack and lightly tighten.

Note: Coat the end of the threads with Vaseline before inserting.
You will now have the PCB, Bearing and Base Plate securely held together.
There should be about 1mm of thread protruding from the bottom of the Base Plate.

n) Now mix an amount of Extra Strength Araldite Epoxy Resin, making sure that equal amounts are used. Coat the bottom of the chassis within the circle you marked out, with a thin layer of epoxy resin.

o) Now coat the underside of the Base Plate with a thin layer of Epoxy.

p) Now carefully place the PCB, Base Plate and Bearing assembly into the bearing well of the chassis. Lightly press down and twist to seat the Base Plate onto the Epoxy.

q) Now ensure that the three holes in the corners of the PCB accurately align with the three locating posts in the chassis. This ensures that the Base Plate is correctly positioned over the bearing well and located centrally in the chassis. (You should be able to feel the ends of the three long bolts which protrude from the bottom of the Base Plate locate into the original holes around the Bearing Well)
(Try doing this before you apply the epoxy so that you know what you are doing.) The three supplied self tap screws can be inserted into the holes and lightly tightened to ensure the correct location.

When you are happy that the Base Plate is located correctly, do not disturb for 24Hrs.

r) The PCB and Bearing can now be removed from the Base Plate and a coating of Vaselene applied to the flange of the Bearing (where it sits on the Base Plate) before re-assembly, then tighten up the three long bolts progressively until fully tightened.

s) Using the three brass spacers, fit these to the three corner holes on the PCB, with the spacers underneath the board. There must be an earth connection lead to the bottom left hand corner position, do not forget this!! If the self-tap screws are not long enough, then obtain some longer ones (usually they are OK)

t) Now re-solder any power connections that were previously removed.

u) Now refit the three cabling plugs into their respective sockets on the main PCB

v) Check that the external power supply is correctly connected

w) Replace the platter and check that it rotates at the correct speeds. If this does not happen then you have an electrical connection problem of some sort. Carefully check all connections.

x) Before final running, add three or four drops of the bearing oil supplied, to the top of the bearing.


Final Considerations

The new Base Plate will have radically altered the VTA setting, so you will now need to reset your arm before spinning some vinyl.

The platter needs to be carefully leveled in all directions for maximum benefit. A short level placed on the platter will give the best results. Rotate the platter and check for level in all directions.

Note: The standard feet on the SL1200 are a loose fit in their threads and are unsuitable for the best results. Tightly screw all four feet into the base as tight as possible. Now use shimming to level the platter, pieces of plastic, cardboard etc will do the job. Alternatively use the ‘Isonoe’ feet, which provide excellent support.


GOOD LISTENING

ChrisKemp
19-11-2015, 12:29
A video of the whole prosess would be a big help. I will order after new year, Mike! I just loved what the ETP platter did to the sound in my set up! With the base plate and maybe a ebony armboard will be the final two pieces:)

Mike_New
19-11-2015, 21:21
The one thing that you have to be careful of, is to ensure that the threaded holes in the base plate are exactly on top of the original holes in the small boss's. This will ensure that the Bearing and coil assembly (PCB) is positioned correctly.
I guess a video would be useful, but so far no one has had any real problems.

jostber
06-01-2016, 03:47
A video of the whole prosess would be a big help. I will order after new year, Mike! I just loved what the ETP platter did to the sound in my set up! With the base plate and maybe a ebony armboard will be the final two pieces:)

There is a picture series with detailed descriptions in the first page of this thread.

Mike_New
06-01-2016, 05:31
Hi Folks,
The picture series referred to by Jostein is now obsolete and no longer relevant.
The Base Plate is now fixed to the chassis with epoxy glue, which make it a much easier method. Able to be carried out by almost anyone.
The SL1200 chassis assembly does not need to be dismantled and the tone arm can remain in place.
I should have caught up on this correction a long time ago, sorry about that, perhaps it should now be deleted.

CableMaker1
23-03-2017, 21:15
Hi Folks,
The picture series referred to by Jostein is now obsolete and no longer relevant.
The Base Plate is now fixed to the chassis with epoxy glue, which make it a much easier method. Able to be carried out by almost anyone.
The SL1200 chassis assembly does not need to be dismantled and the tone arm can remain in place.
I should have caught up on this correction a long time ago, sorry about that, perhaps it should now be deleted.

You mean... my instructions are no longer valid????

Sniff Sniff....
Sobb Sobb....

Mike_New
23-03-2017, 23:08
I posted my comments on this over a year ago.
Where have all the people gone long long ago!!!

RobbieGong
24-03-2017, 00:05
Get the bearing base plate if you've only got the bearing - the base plate provides an ideal platform for the precision MN bearing, allowing it to perform to it's optimum :thumbsup:

Dubster68
24-03-2017, 14:00
Get the bearing base plate if you've only got the bearing - the base plate provides an ideal platform for the precision MN bearing, allowing it to perform to it's optimum :thumbsup:

Rob does this give a major improvement over what I now have. I am liking the new platter and bearing but it comes at a cost but worth it.

CageyH
24-03-2017, 15:56
I would seriously doubt it would be a "major" improvement. It is more likely to be a "minor" improvement.

Dubster68
24-03-2017, 16:23
I would seriously doubt it would be a "major" improvement. It is more likely to be a "minor" improvement.

Thanks Kev. Don't want to keep pulling turntable part if there is no major gain.

CageyH
24-03-2017, 16:26
It will be the final piece in the jigsaw for sure, but irreversible from a mod point of view, so unless you have two identical decks, back to back tests will be very difficult.

If it made that much difference, I would seriously question the design of the bearing in the first place. However, the bearing is seriously over engineered and would probably survive a direct hit from artillery.

CableMaker1
24-03-2017, 17:04
Rob does this give a major improvement over what I now have. I am liking the new platter and bearing but it comes at a cost but worth it.

Being the author of this original post outlining the detail on how to mount the baseplate to the TT, the base plate brings improvement in ensuring additional rigidity between the turntable base and the MN Bearing. It ensures that there will be no mechanical minute vibrations between the MN Bearing and the turntable base. It will add additional weight to the turntable when adding the baseplate.

Does it bring an improvement where it translates into audible results? That was not my goal to ever state that or give an impression when I created this post. The goal was to give great pictorial detail on how to install MN Baseplate in an effort to show what is involved, the tools one would need, and to make it easier for others should they decide to go down this route, to add rigidity when coupling the MN Bearing to the TT base.

If you are looking to know if adding the base plate will give a day-and-night audible difference to your TT experience - it will not. Does it bring a bang-for-your-buck audible difference? No. It is not designed for that. It will bring that one last piece of the puzzle together for those of us who want to reach audio nirvana - the ultimate statement for the complete SL-1200 experience.

If you are looking for an audible improvement to your TT experience, you will better off starting here - in no particular order (others may have different precedence on reaching audio nirvana):
New Tonearm with armboard (Jelco, SME, Ortofon)
MN Bearing (or the Ian Bearing)
Phono Cartridge
MN CopperTop Platter
Funk Firm Mat (Is the name Achroplat?)
Isonoe Feet
DEDICATED PHONO PREAMP !!! I cant stress this enough people !!!
And for some - replacing the caps.

CableMaker1
24-03-2017, 17:10
I posted my comments on this over a year ago.
Where have all the people gone long long ago!!!

Its been a few years since I have been on this forum. I am back to see what has changed in the SL-1200 world.

CageyH
24-03-2017, 17:18
Being the author of this original post outlining the detail on how to mount the baseplate to the TT, the base plate brings improvement in ensuring additional rigidity between the turntable base and the MN Bearing. It ensures that there will be no mechanical minute vibrations between the MN Bearing and the turntable base. It will add additional weight to the turntable when adding the baseplate.

Does it bring an improvement where it translates into audible results? That was not my goal to ever state that or give an impression when I created this post. The goal was to give great pictorial detail on how to install MN Baseplate in an effort to show what is involved, the tools one would need, and to make it easier for others should they decide to go down this route, to add rigidity when coupling the MN Bearing to the TT base.

If you are looking to know if adding the base plate will give a day-and-night audible difference to your TT experience - it will not. Does it bring a bang-for-your-buck audible difference? No. It is not designed for that. It will bring that one last piece of the puzzle together for those of us who want to reach audio nirvana - the ultimate statement for the complete SL-1200 experience.

If you are looking for an audible improvement to your TT experience, you will better off starting here - in no particular order (others may have different precedence on reaching audio nirvana):
New Tonearm with armboard (Jelco, SME, Ortofon)
MN Bearing (or the Ian Bearing)
Phono Cartridge
MN CopperTop Platter
Funk Firm Mat (Is the name Achroplat?)
Isonoe Feet
DEDICATED PHONO PREAMP !!! I cant stress this enough people !!!
And for some - replacing the caps.

Or one of the other aftermarket bearings, platters or feet currently available.
There are a couple to choose from.

CableMaker1
24-03-2017, 17:27
I forgot to add -

For those who don't wish to replace their tonearm - there is a more economical solution to elevating the sound of your turntable:
Replacing the stock cable with a KAB solution and really good RCA jacks - which will allow you to use any cable you wish. It really works !!!!
And for MK2 owners who are willing to put in the work - replacing the tonearm wire with a pure copper tonearm wire. These wires that are in those tonearms are tinned wires.

I believe the MK5 uses copper tonearm wire.

RobbieGong
24-03-2017, 17:38
Rob does this give a major improvement over what I now have. I am liking the new platter and bearing but it comes at a cost but worth it.

Sorry Mick just seen this.

The truth is that where and how the MN bearing sits without the base plate really is not ideal for the solid, well engineered precision thing it is.
Have a look at posts 3 and 4 here and you'll see that three screws basically screw to the aluminum floor body http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?12959-The-Mike-New-Bearing-Base-Plate

If you look closely at posts 7 and 8 you'll see that the applied 6mm base plate provides a far better, firmer more solid foundation for something like the substantial MN bearing, which can only allow it to function, optimally I'd say.

Sound wise it would be hard for me to say as I'm known to often change more than one thing at a time which was the case here.
I wanted all the right upgrades and this was part of that for me.
As well as the sense of knowing that the bearing is secured, solidly, firmly, towards optimum from that great bearing, I'm in no doubt that it is of further benefit and improvement where it matters which is the music, no matter how small an equation it adds to the whole picture so to speak ;)

I'd advise anyone doing the bearing to also do the bearing base plate, cause it makes sense and not every upgrade provides big improvement to the ears like cable a cart or speakers as not all upgrades work that way :)

Dubster68
24-03-2017, 19:28
Sorry Mick just seen this.

The truth is that where and how the MN bearing sits without the base plate really is not ideal for the solid, well engineered precision thing it is.
Have a look at posts 3 and 4 here and you'll see that three screws basically screw to the aluminum floor body http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?12959-The-Mike-New-Bearing-Base-Plate

If you look closely at posts 7 and 8 you'll see that the applied 6mm base plate provides a far better, firmer more solid foundation for something like the substantial MN bearing, which can only allow it to function, optimally I'd say.

Sound wise it would be hard for me to say as I'm known to often change more than one thing at a time which was the case here.
I wanted all the right upgrades and this was part of that for me.
As well as the sense of knowing that the bearing is secured, solidly, firmly, towards optimum from that great bearing, I'm in no doubt that it is of further benefit and improvement where it matters which is the music, no matter how small an equation it adds to the whole picture so to speak ;)

I'd advise anyone doing the bearing to also do the bearing base plate, cause it makes sense and not every upgrade provides big improvement to the ears like cable a cart or speakers as not all upgrades work that way :)

I suppose it's a thing I will have to do. I have come this far and as said structurely it will pull it all together. Has anyone attempted to make one as it's not a thing you see on sale to often.

RobbieGong
26-03-2017, 14:34
I suppose it's a thing I will have to do. I have come this far and as said structurely it will pull it all together. Has anyone attempted to make one as it's not a thing you see on sale to often.

No you wont see it on sale as once it's bonded that's it.
Not sure how much they are now.
I paid about £80ish if I remember but that was when Dave of MCRU acted as a supplier here in the UK.

Mike New might confirm cost if he see's this.

Mike_New
26-03-2017, 23:14
Hi Robert,
I do not have any Base Plates in stock and I am reluctant to make just the one off.
As we all know, interest in upgrades for the SL1200 has now all but ended.
If there were more than one person wanting a base plate then I would consider providing them
The price would be $385.00

Dubster68
05-10-2017, 22:02
With Mike not making these anymore has anyone got the plate measurements etc as I will see if a local metal fabricator can make me one.

Dubster68
07-10-2017, 19:27
Anyone ? This is the last piece of the jigsaw people so its important:lol::lol::lol:

Mike_New
07-10-2017, 22:43
If you get one made do not use the self tap long screws. As these could snap like carrots if you try to
screw them into steel. Use threaded 1/8 Whit bolts or UNF.
I have looked around my large workshop but it seems that I do not even have an old one laying around.
I would be willing to make up 5 if you can find any takers.

Dubster68
07-10-2017, 23:00
If you get one made do not use the self tap long screws. As these could snap like carrots if you try to
screw them into steel. Use threaded 1/8 Whit bolts or UNF.
I have looked around my large workshop but it seems that I do not even have an old one laying around.
I would be willing to make up 5 if you can find any takers.

Hi Mike thanks for that.

What price we looking at each if we get 5 members ?

Also any takers to get Mike to come out of retirement :lol:

Mike_New
07-10-2017, 23:26
Hi Mick
Firstly the cost for 5 off Base Plates would be $385.00 inc postage (They are heavy!!)
"Coming out of retirement" That would still be possible after all I am only 78.
However having enough buyers for my Upgrades is the single problem.
I have only had three enquiries for my Bearing in the last year and for one platter.
Sadly not sufficient to be engaged in production at a commercial level.

Dubster68
07-10-2017, 23:38
Mike I fully understand at 78 yrs young:D. You cant make odd ones now and again but I appreciate your offer if I can get another 4 people. The 1210 is still very popular but most people are happy to buy and home DJ the 1210 and are not bothered about making the turntable better. It looks like only a select few. Anyway thanks again for all your efforts over the years and supporting the evolution of turntables:) Your bearing and ETP platter are well worth the time and money as they have transformed the turntable.

Anyway fingers crossed I find another 4 people.

Mike_New
08-10-2017, 00:42
Maybe the SL1200 wheel will rotate again and there will be a resurgence in interest for my upgrades to transform the
SL1200 into a truly excellent TT for a new generation of audio enthusiasts.
However it seems from what I read in the media that Vynal has now peaked out.
The immediacy of online digital for the new generation has transcended every other medium.

kambo_z
15-11-2017, 16:39
I will have one if you decided to make in the future. thanks

tdlt02
14-07-2019, 20:32
Looking for opinions and guidance folks!

I am now in the lucky position to own two Technics 1210 turntables with the upgraded Mike New extra bits.
One deck has the bearing and the copper topped platter, and the other deck (RobbieGong's one) has the bearing, bearing base plate and the ETP platter. Both decks have the same upgraded Micro Seiki MA-202 tonearms on them.
My question really is as the Mike New copper metal platter is heavier, do you think that would benefit more placed on the deck I purchased from Rob that has the baseplate also attached, as opposed to the deck with only the bearing attached?

Maybe nothing really in it, but would appreciate the knowledge gained by you guys who have gone down the Mike New path long before me...:)

Regards
Mark

Dubster68
21-07-2019, 13:41
I don't know if there are any real differences you would notice. Only your ears will tell if its a worthwhile swap or not. And if you have Robs old turntable its already a winner.

Spectral Morn
21-07-2019, 13:51
I always was dubious about the base plate, so never went down that path. I had a metal platter but it widn't have the copper mat on top. I moved my platter on as overall I felt the Funk mk1 plater sounded better.

I know back in the day there were some concerns expressed re the whole thing being too heavy and maybe effecting speed stability, and in time Mike went down the path of making platters from ETP. Was that done to address the weight issue or simply it being sound quality lead. I am sure if you go back to when all of this started there will be info in those threads discussions. Too much time has gone by for me to recall all the details.

REXTON
21-07-2019, 16:22
Looking for opinions and guidance folks!

I am now in the lucky position to own two Technics 1210 turntables with the upgraded Mike New extra bits.
One deck has the bearing and the copper topped platter, and the other deck (RobbieGong's one) has the bearing, bearing base plate and the ETP platter. Both decks have the same upgraded Micro Seiki MA-202 tonearms on them.
My question really is as the Mike New copper metal platter is heavier, do you think that would benefit more placed on the deck I purchased from Rob that has the baseplate also attached, as opposed to the deck with only the bearing attached?

Maybe nothing really in it, but would appreciate the knowledge gained by you guys who have gone down the Mike New path long before me...:)

Regards
Mark

The baseplate was designed to give further stability to the bearing and is a known methods of stabilising a bearing. It will have no impact on the ability of the bearing to handle heavier platters. I have tried both ETP and the Cu topped platters with the baseplate and noticed very little (if any) difference.


I don't know if there are any real differences you would notice. Only your ears will tell if its a worthwhile swap or not. And if you have Robs old turntable its already a winner.

The ETP was marginally better (to my ears) than the Cu topped platter but i just could not justify the extra cost at the time for ETP at the time.


I always was dubious about the base plate, so never went down that path. I had a metal platter but it widn't have the copper mat on top. I moved my platter on as overall I felt the Funk mk1 plater sounded better.

I know back in the day there were some concerns expressed re the whole thing being too heavy and maybe effecting speed stability, and in time Mike went down the path of making platters from ETP. Was that done to address the weight issue or simply it being sound quality lead. I am sure if you go back to when all of this started there will be info in those threads discussions. Too much time has gone by for me to recall all the details.

The Cu platter DID not effect speed stability and many thought the funk replacement platter a poor and cheap substitute for Mike's work. The standard technics motor and Mike's bearing (without) the collar can easily spin very heavy platters and to perfect stability within Technics specs.

Spectral Morn
21-07-2019, 17:35
The baseplate was designed to give further stability to the bearing and is a known methods of stabilising a bearing. It will have no impact on the ability of the bearing to handle heavier platters. I have tried both ETP and the Cu topped platters with the baseplate and noticed very little (if any) difference.



The ETP was marginally better (to my ears) than the Cu topped platter but i just could not justify the extra cost at the time for ETP at the time.



The Cu platter DID not effect speed stability and many thought the funk replacement platter a poor and cheap substitute for Mike's work. The standard technics motor and Mike's bearing (without) the collar can easily spin very heavy platters and to perfect stability within Technics specs.

At the time a number of industry people, including if I recall correctly some one who had exprience working for Technics felt the platter, metal platter with copper mat was too heavy. It was not proved one way or the other.

The first Funk platter was/is very good, more people expressed issues with the ETP later on in the day, despite a few moving from Funk to ETP. Anyway all of this is in the relevant threads if Mark wants to go and look.

tdlt02
31-07-2019, 11:47
Helpful information guys, much appreciated. 😄