Dual 1019 Turntable

[Canetoad]

I just won this turntable on ebay and it has a 5-pin DIN connection instead of RCA plugs. Can somebody give me some wiring details so I can convert to RCAs please?

I bought it as a project as it looks to be in very good condition from the description and photos. I must admit I am looking forward to using it as a piece of antique hifi equipment. Eventually a valve amp and some vintage speakers would make it something special I think. :eyebrows:

The cartridge on it is a Shure M75G. Is this stereo or mono? Any good? Any other suggestions?

I went onto VE and downloaded the documentation on this model as a starting point but any other information would be greatly appreciated, especially details of any problems they develop. :scratch:

Now I just have to convince my mother that she should give me her collection of 78s to play on it. :lol:

[Themis]

Something like this ? http://www.flashbacksales.co.uk/acatalog/din-phono-rca-audio-cables.html

[DSJR]

No, the 1019 is a pile of sh*te and you should donate it to me to dispose of it for you ;) The arm has huge friction and is too massive, the turntable rumbles like fugg and the clunky old switchgear is a mess. Ghastly thing :D

Now to reality :)

Many of these decks at the time used to earth the chassis of the deck via the signal returns and this could cause hum. if you're any good at soldering, I'd recommend taking a separate earth wire to the amp (as is convention these days) and keeping the signal screens separate.

Regarding the cable itself, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a fairly high capacitance type, as Shures often used to sound very natural and sweet in these dear old Duals. I've used Van Damme Pro-Patch mic cables as interconnects on the 701 and it works fine, as well as being flexible. Connect the outer screen to the return in the phono plugs and just the four inner conductors to the tonearm signal wires.

Despite my atrocious comments regarding the 1019 above (to try to put casual Googlers off, otherwise the prices will soar :(), it's a lovely slick old thing and as long as the cartridge isn't VTA sensitive, it'll sound great (been there with one of these and done it :)). Modern cartridges could easily be the Shure 97XE (using the stabiliser), Pickering VX15/625/Stanton 680E series, Denon 110/160 and other more "durable" types able to work with the arm mass. headshells and idlers turn up regularly too (the idler will need a good clean possibly) and hopefully this generation of mechanism doesn't have the notorious "steurpimpel" problems of the replacement ranges, failure of which causes the arm not to move around in auto mode (easy to fix, but a pita nonetheless).

Good luck and I hope you grow to love it as I do :)

[Canetoad]

Thanks for the link Dimitri. I hadn't thought of a conversion cable. I could probably make up my own actually. I just wanted the 5-pin layout. I guess I can figure it out when it arrives.

Dave, Glad I got myself such a pile of crap! :lol: :ner:

I am really looking forward to having a play with this. I was thinking of getting a Lenco GL75 as there are so many about, but now, having something a little bit more out of the ordinary is more appealing. I've checked out the manual and they look pretty robust to say the least.

I have some Van Damme Pro Patch cable already. I rewired my Techie with it. I'll make up a set of leads for the Dual as well. Thanks for the tip. It's good to know a few modern cartridges will work OK on it too.

I've also noticed the service manual on VE seems to be corrupted. Do you have a copy Dave?

[DSJR]

I don't have the service manual, but I'll see what I can do. It's testament to the design that it shouldn't be needed with any luck. The arm looks a clunky old thing, but friction should be very low, tracking and bias gauges are accurate and it works a treat with 1.5g+ trackers - a colleague used a K9 very successfully in his...

[Canetoad]

Well, the turntable arrived and I eagerly unpacked it.

Firstly, the cabinet/plinth is coming apart on two corners. I don't know whether to repair it or scrap it and build a new one. There's no brand name on it so I'm not sure about its origins.

The ad said that the cable was a 5-pin DIN but it has had a set of cheap RCAs fitted. The DIN cable was included in the box. It looks like it's had a new power cord fitted at some time too.

I plugged it in and put an old record on the platter and checked various operations. Everything works as required, which was amazing! It's still very smooth and there's no real noise associated with operations. Very impressed!

I switched on the amp and there is a loud hum coming from both channels. There's no earth cable fitted so there's definitely an earthing problem. Originally I thought the cantilever was damaged on the cartridge but, after resetting VTA, it was fine. Both channels play fine (except for hum) and I couldn't detect any appreciable wow or flutter.

Any advice on the hum problem would be greatly appreciated.

I'll remove the table from the plinth/cabinet on the weekend and see if I can re-glue it back together. I will also dismantle and regrease/oil all moving parts. What sort of grease should I use? What about oil for the spindle bearing? 80 weight gear oil? Should I lube the motor bearings as well?

The table itself is in very good condition cosmetically too. After a good clean it should be almost like new. I'm very happy so far with my purchase! :)

[DSJR]

Dual plinths weren't all that solid I remember, so if it can be repaired with re-inforced corners. so much the better.

Right, look at the wiring tag strip under the deck. The green and blue arm wires must not have a link to chassis as was custom for duals and Thorens of this era. if there is a link, cut it and take a separate soft-stranded wire from the chassis point to preamp/phono stage earth I got some cheap instrument wire from Halfords and some fugly spade terminals too. Works for me. Hope it does likewise for you as well :)

[Canetoad]

Thanks Dave. Much appreciated. :)

I'm going to take off the platter on the weekend and check the idler wheel for condition. I'll also remove the TT and see if I can sort out the plinth. While it's out I'll sort the earth wire.

I read the service manual and they recommend quite a few different lubricants for servicing the moving parts. I'll have to see if I can find them all. :scratch:

[Gromit]

What a sweet looking turntable! :)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/mrow2/Record%20Turntables/Dual1019cc-1.jpg

Will look forward to reading about how it sounds.

Would love to have something like this some time.

[DSJR]

Dual used to do a lubrication kit and it came with several little "bubbles" of oils and greases. The grease isn't so different from LM2 type grease I believe but the main one was the "Renotac 342" oil for the main bearing, which wasn't so much viscous a la EP80, but slippery in a way that "ordinary" clock type oil isn't. Please don't "WD40" things, nor use 3-in-1, as it's not really suitable and goes "orf" when it dries out, in this application.

I know the 1019 is a different animal to the 1229 I owned and loved, but their needs nowadays will be similar I think. Duals greases don't seem to dry out as badly as old auto Garrard's do in fairness, the Garrard's all but seizing up. The idler should be fine unless the deck has been left for years with it engaged with the motor pulley (taking the arm to its rest usually disengages and turns off the drive on these), but it may have crunge all over it.

By the way, PLEASE take care with the trims when removing the platter. I think the retaining clip is a "broken ring" style and should be easy enough to prise out.

[Canetoad]

Details from service manual for lubricants:

Fine bearing oil, Shell Clavus 17 for motor bearings and sintered bearings
Adhesive oil, Renotac for turntable and drive wheel
Molycote paste G where greater pressure or friction occur
Silicone rubber grease for the drive washer of the tonearm lift
Silicone grease
Thicker, non-gumming oil, Calypsol WIK 700 for other sliding and bearing points

:stalks: