PDA

View Full Version : Solar Power - A Cautionary Tale.



DaveK
15-08-2011, 19:53
Hi Guys,
Having just read the last few posts on the subject of saving power costs I thought one or two of you may be bored enough to be interested in my story.
A few of you will recall that I have expressed interest in these 'free' solar power (PV) systems. I have a large (bungalow) roof sloped at 25deg and facing due south with no (see later) restrictions to shade any area of the roof so you would think it was ideal for this application.
I first approached 'A Shade Greener', filled in their on line application form and sat back and waited. Soon afterwards I got a phone call saying that they had studied the Google Earth image of our property and confirmed the property was suitable - could they send a surveyor to check meter position, loft space and insulation etc.? At the agreed time he turned up, had a thorough look round, took loads of measurements and photos of loft, the property in general and surrounding area and gave us the thumbs up. He said we would soon receive an offer from the company and the rest was up to us. So far, so good.
We soon afterwards got an e-mail from the company confirming all this, followed 24 hours later by another one informing us that a mistake had been made and our property was not now considered suitable. I responded by asking why and received a response that their Technical Director, presumably sat on his arse in front of a PC monitor in a comfortable office somewhere, had looked at the Google Earth image and using trigonometry had decided that some trees about 20m to the S.E. of the property would partially shade the roof.
I said that this was arrant nonsense (politely of course ;)) and invited him to visit the property personally to see for himself, an offer that was declined.
Shortly after this our next door neighbour with an identical roof to ours in terms of size, slope and orientation but with a 2 story house immediately to the south, had the same company but a different surveyor survey their property for suitability - they were turned down because of the shading caused by the property to the south. I took the opportunity to ask the surveyor to comment on the trees to the south east which had caused my earlier application to be refused - he firmly indicated that they were not a problem.
I then went back to the company by e-mail and asked if, in the light of the findings by two separate surveyors from their company that the property was indeed suitable would the Technical Director reconsider his decision. I got an e-mail respose shortly afterwards informing that the Technical Director had reviwed his decision and the result was unchanged because, this time he had identified 'scaffolding issues'. When I asked what the 'scaffolding issues' were and could I professionally organise the scaffolding myself, I got no real response.Shortly afterwards the scaffolders for the same company were erecting scaffolding on another neighbour's identical property (many south facing bungalows on our avenue :) ) so I asked the guy if he could spare a few moments to assess the potential scaffolding on my property, which he did. His opinion was that there was absolutely nothing unusual about the job and he would be quite prepared to erect said scaffolding. He also said he was the only scaffolder working for 'A shade Greener' in this area so he looked forward to seeing me later :) (OWTTE) . I again approached 'A Shade Greener' with this further information, only to be told that their decision was final and non-negotiable, so don't bother asking us again :( .

I then approached e-on, went through exactly the same process with them and received confirmation that my property was suitable and I would receive a firm contract in the post which I should read, sign and send back to them, but could they draw my attention to a couple of points which made my proposal slightly different: -
1) instead of the normal 20 panels that all other similar properties on the avenue had got (one has even got 21 with a smaller roof than mine :mental: ) they could only put 12 on mine because of the spacing needed around the panels - they actually had space to put 14 panels on the roof but unfortunately they only offered systems with 10, 12, 16, 18 and 20 panels - make sense of that :steam: :mental: .
2) because they would need access to my flat roof garage abutting the south side of the property I would need 'Class 3 scaffolding' (IIRC) and there would be a charge for this of £199.00 !!!
Meanwhile our neighbours, they with the ajacent 2 story building about 4m to the south, have approached another company, Green Energy Power solutions, who immediately approved their application, fitted them with 20 panels for a one off legal fee of £99 (something to do with reviewing their deeds) and they are now taking some of their power from the sun. Their surveyor, at my request, took a quick look at our property and confirmed that his company would do the same deal for us.
I am at a total loss to understand the differing technical, practical and legal criteria that different companys offering the same service seem to apply. I suspect that the way these companies make money from these schemes means that such matters are almost irrelevant.
Needless to say I have now asked Green Energy Power Solutions to formally quote for putting their panels on our roof.
Any comments, advice or explanations would be gratefully received.
Cheers,
Dave.

Reid Malenfant
15-08-2011, 20:05
:scratch: :lol:

The only thing you need to remember before actually going ahead with this is that the power you get from the panels will be less than what you are quoted. In other words it'll take you much longer to repay the cost of installation that what they are telling you!

Remember that they may well be talking about 15 - 20 years to recoup the installation costs as photovoltaic panels are in no way cheap!

Oh, you'll need to keep them as clean as possible as well to generate maximum power ;)

I wouldn't ever consider the idea in all honesty. What is the lifespan of the invertor that converts the DC from the panels to AC mains? Are you storing power in batteries or thinking of feeding it back into the mains & getting paid for it?

You must remember that these people will be blinding you with science, or baffling you with bullshit :lol:

DaveK
15-08-2011, 20:20
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your quick response.
The deal would be that I get the panels for free and the company providing them guarantee to maintain all the system, panels, wiring and inverter for the full 25 year life expectancy. I get to use the free power generated and they get their reward by selling all units generated back to the power supply company. Loads and loads of houses around here are getting them on their roof so lots of people seem to think it's a no brainer - I wonder - no such thing as a free meal, or kilowatt, is there?
FWIW our property is built on a concrete raft 4 feet below floor level, in other words we have a 4 foot cellar. I have thought that this would be an ideal place to put some sort of electricity storge system, or even a thermal solar hot water storage system, but I have no idea whether such a system is either practical or available - a build up of hydrogen under the floor boards from lead acid batteries does not appeal :lol: .
Cheers,
Dave.

hifi_dave
15-08-2011, 20:24
Saw a programme on the TV a couple of weeks ago which stated that you need approx 5-6 pnels to boil a kettle and that is on a bright, sunny, Summer's day. You can forget that on the average cloudy day. Apparently.

Reid Malenfant
15-08-2011, 20:29
Hmmm, sounds too good to be true doesn't it! You get everything for free (never heard of such a thing) & excess electricity goes into the grid...

Who is to say what excess is though? Lets assume you are home all day & run a pair of Krell KMA 500 :eyebrows: Are these people going to be happy supplying you with free electricity to power them & have nothing left over to feed into the grid?

I think you need to look at the small print very carefully indeed ;)

vinylspinner
15-08-2011, 21:08
Dave,

This reminds me of the double glazing scene in the early 80,s these guys are out to make a quick buck, I agree, no such thing as a free lunch, please double check the small print before signing anything, trust me, no one gives anything away for free, someone makes money some where, usually from the guy who signs the contract :(


Nigel

Alex_UK
15-08-2011, 21:17
It's all about the feed-in Tariffs - a full installation will pay for itself in 6-10 years, but the government payments are guaranteed for 25 years - they pay for your system, get their money back, and then pure profit for 15-19 years... IMO, it is only worth doing if you have the money available to fund it yourself, and take the full profit - in fact, a bloody good investment if you can afford to pay for the system up front - bloody ugly, though...

vinylspinner
15-08-2011, 21:25
Check the condition of your roof, felt , tiles and all, they need to be in good condition, just imagine if you need to refelt in 5 years, all the panels may have to be removed to carry out the job.

Reid Malenfant
15-08-2011, 21:25
but the government payments are guaranteed for 25 years
:lolsign: Have you noticed that governments change Alex :rolleyes: Change their minds on a whim to!

I'd have even more doubt about the viability of this scheme now you mention that.... Jeez :rolleyes:

DaveK
15-08-2011, 21:29
Hi Guys,
Thanks for your inputs. Believe me it's particularly difficult to separate a Yorkshireman from his money but an awful lot have signed up for the deal. Frankly I'm surprised you guys seem to be so unaware of the schemes on offer. You may be interested in having a look at this site to see if any flaw jumps out at you - the scheme is government backed, supported and funded: -

http://www.ashadegreener.co.uk/apply-now/

and

http://www.eonenergy.com/In-Business/Sustainable-Energy/Latest+news/News+Articles/free+solar+panels+nottingham.htm

and

http://www.freesolarpanelsuk.co.uk/are-eon-solar-panels-free-with-their-solarexchange-scheme.php

if you would like further information - hope this is of interest.
Cheers,
Dave.

vinylspinner
15-08-2011, 21:31
25 years,

Most roofs need re-felting in that time span, also , do you notice any government buildings going pv as we speak?

Reid Malenfant
15-08-2011, 21:36
I'll look at all this early tomorrow evening Dave (getting a bit bladdered here :eyebrows:).

There is no something for nothing though, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is is what the damn goverment & police keep telling you...


So now you trust them? Hmmmm...

Not me m8 :eyebrows:

As i say, i'll take a look later... I still smell a rather large rat though :drugs:

HighFidelityGuy
15-08-2011, 21:51
It might be worth checking out Ploughcroft Solar (http://www.ploughcroftsolar.co.uk/). They recently featured on Dragons Den and got a big investment. They sounded pretty legit and had been in business for 13 years. I'd probably be more inclined to trust them rather than one of these new companies that are just cashing in on the recent green power fad. :)

DaveK
15-08-2011, 21:52
25 years,

Most roofs need re-felting in that time span, also , do you notice any government buildings going pv as we speak?

Good point well made - mmm, interesting, wonder why? :scratch:
Dave.

DaveK
15-08-2011, 22:04
It might be worth checking out Ploughcroft Solar (http://www.ploughcroftsolar.co.uk/). They recently featured on Dragons Den and got a big investment. They sounded pretty legit and had been in business for 13 years. I'd probably be more inclined to trust them rather than one of these new companies that are just cashing in on the recent green power fad. :)

Thanks Dave,
I caught a bit of that programme but was fairly certain that I was going with e-on at the time - big name company likely to be still around in 25 years time, even though I may not be ;) , and then forgot about them when I got their unacceptable quotation this morning.
I've just applied on line for them to quote so we'll see what happens.
Thanks again,
Dave.

DSJR
16-08-2011, 08:51
We have a perfect unobstructed south-facing roof in one little area that gets more sun than most (our little peninsula does have one or two benefits :)). I'd thought of looking up the E.On offer for £99, but having seen the above, I don't think I'll bother :mental:

Covenant
16-08-2011, 18:20
I read an article recently which claimed that the energy saving of P.V systems was exaggerated. It said £70 P.A was a typical figure.
I would imagine that the government, in reality, have very little control over the companies that do the hard sell and installation despite them belonging to some kind of controlling organisation.