Energy costs-is it possible to save money?

[Covenant]

I have been with British Gas for two months, they set my dual fuel cost at £125 a month, slightly less than my previous provider. I have just received an e-mail from them telling me the monthly figure is increasing to £185. Thats a 45% increase!
I have a modern detached house with cavity wall insulation 325mm insulation in the loft, double glazing and a condensing combi boiler. Some of the cost may be attributable to electronics-3 TV's are often on in the evening.
I just wondered if any one has managed to significantly reduce there energy usage or does everyone pay whopping amounts like me? :scratch:

[Reid Malenfant]

If you are paying by direct debit then they'll always pull out far more money from your account than they need to ;) Simple really, while they have multiple millions in the bank they'll be making huge amounts of interest on this because of the sums they have in the bank....

Bunch of ars**oles imo... You could try getting in touch with them & tell them to stick it up their backsides & you'll only pay the extra which covers price increases, IE about 17% (which should cover gas & electricity) :eyebrows:

I know people that have done the very same & got what they wanted ;)

[Reid Malenfant]

Oh, while i think about it i wish you good luck with your condensing boiler :eyebrows: While it may be 20% more efficient than my old thing you'll soon regret it once one bit of grit jams an electric valve & you need to get all the radiators power flushed (about £400 for an average house). On top of that the control PCBs often give up the ghost, that'll be at least another £150 :eek:

Me, i'll stick to my old but slightly more inefficient boiler that has given no real grief for over 15 years. The worst that has happened is the circulating pump packed up... Modern boilers may well be efficient, but feck do they cost the owner some cash to keep running :rolleyes:

I'll not be changing no matter how many people ring up with so called juicy offers :lol:

[Covenant]

Had a Worcester boiler for 17 years until it was condemned. I bought a decent Vaillant one and have had the magnetic filter thingy installed. That reminds me, must get it serviced.....

[Tim]

I cut my costs a year or so ago by taking the time to actually find out what I was using by buying a watt meter. It astonished me how much some things use and how little others do. As an example my Pure Evoke3 radio on standby was using 17W and my TV about 1.5W. Amazing really, considering the fuss they make about TV's on standby. Even my switched off computers and microwave were using power. So I have identified the worst offenders and they get switched off at the socket when not in use. I saved quite a lot by pulling out phone chargers, radios and such like and I don't have any bulbs now other than energy saving ones. Kettles are buggers too, anal I know but I have lines on the window that mark out amounts for making tea and coffee, so I never boil anything more than I'm going to use :eyebrows: Everything I buy now has it's power consumption taken into consideration before purchase.

So it is possible to reduce costs and I don't pay anything near your monthly direct debit, about half the first figure actually and I'm always in credit.

[Covenant]

Well I do have an energy meter thing supplied by BG. Its got a face on it that either smiles or grimaces depending on your energy use. Mostly the latter, at least as night.
I guess having two grown up kids at home doesn't help. I have just gone into my son's bedroom to turn off his computer but he is downloading something.
I really think there is nothing I can do but work seven days a week.:(

[Reid Malenfant]

Aye Tim, i think my combined electricity & gas bill adds up to about the same as what you mention, maybe a bit more in the winter :eyebrows:

Averaging it out though over the year i'm in agreement with you, no way is my gas & leccy near on £1500 :eek:

Nearer & less than £1000 a year, probably about £800 i reckon :)

[goraman]

We had a problem here in the states with new meters (smart meters)
They where found to run amuck sending bills through the roof!
They refused there was a problem even though homes with everything turned off at the main and no one living in them had huge bills.
Finally after an investigation they are dealing with it.
Are the meters any different?
http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-05-31/news/21651552_1_smartmeter-program-silver-spring-networks-pacific-gas

The RF these things produce are now making people very sick too.
http://www.smartmeterdangers.org/index.php/smartmeter-facts/116-switching-supply-problem

[Reid Malenfant]

We had a problem here in the states with new meters (smart meters)
They where found to run amuck sending bills through the roof!
They refused there was a problem even though homes with everything turned off at the main and no one living in them had huge bills.
Finally after an investigation they are dealing with it.
Are the meters any different?
The RF these things produce are now making people very sick too.
http://www.smartmeterdangers.org/index.php/smartmeter-facts/116-switching-supply-problem
I actually have a problem with these so called smart meters before they are even installed :lol:

Take the gas meter for instance... It measures the amount of gas used as we know. The thing is though imo is this. As it's a "smart meter" it needs to be connected to the mains electricity so every so often it can do it's mobile phone impression & let the gas company know what you have used ;)

So who is paying for the electricity that the meter uses? :scratch: Putting it bluntly i'm f***ed if i'm going to!

[sq225917]

look at all the things in your house with a clock on them in standby, video, dvd, pvr, microwave, cooker etc all of them are piss takes, stick them on switched sockets and turn them all off.

[slate]

Tim; standby consumption were a problem previously. The EU made a regulation about standby consumption that took effect in 2010. For basic appliances they are allowed max 0,5W in standby.
So any modern TV should comply to that.

Around here there has been some talks in the local forums as the Samsung 3106 cable box that yousee.dk provided back in 2008 uses 28W when in use and the same when in "standby".
Someone provided a link to a EU document with the rules. Basic 0,5 W but a product can be allowed a bit more depending on functionalities; lets say a VCR needs to be online on the internet to keep precise clock for recordings. Then they could be allowed +1W or something like that... there were a table in the EU document with all of the exceptions.

Anyway this part is of little benefit to me as I always turn my TV&stereo completely of when not in use.

I have heard talk that EU would also set goals for the consumption of plasma TVs. Plasma's have also improved but are still way high compared to a LED LCD.
My 32" Sony LCD use 65W in daily use. Today you can find 46" LED LCD at that level; a plasma still uses 220-250W.

At work I have an older 24" LCD monitor... 80W!! it nice and warm in the winter time. At home my 24" Acer S243HL (LED LCD) use 17W; it was a parameter when I looked for a 24" monitor.

On the other hand my stationary PC gave me a chock when I connected it to a killawatt... 140W in idle...
Granted I like to play a round of BattleField BC2 once in a while and I expect it to consume while playing. But 140W while surfing, coding or while in the kitchen for lunch.!!!
Turned out my old ATI 4850 graphics was the culprit. As it also struggled with BC2 I now had 2 reasons for upgrading ;-)
Went for a 6850 and my idle dropped to 100W.

Then one evening I looked into undervolting; using TurionPowerControl I cut further 10W of my idle, and 35W when all cores are firing... without cutting performance.
Besides the power savings there are other benefits; when playing BC2 my CPU temp runs cooler hence my CPU fan dropped 450 RPM => less noise

Actually my idle have since dropped yet 5W down to 85W, as my 6 year old 250 GB 3,5" datadrive had problems and got replaced with a new 500 GB 2,5"

Regarding my house; it is from 1952 and it needed work when I bought it.
It had cavity wall insulation and I later upped the loft insulation to modern 300mm. Heating was provided with an oil furnace and a water heater provided hot water. After 3 years the guy doing the yearly maintenance (about 125£) announced that it needed a new blower; that kicked of my first renovation.
Furnace and electric heater out; hooked up onto District Heating(?) and new windows with "high energy" glas.
The DH in this county have a booster plant down the street so the ingoing temp is the highest the plumber had seen.
The year after my energy bill had dropped 100£, about 8% back then.

BTW the meters we have now measures energi used.
The old one just cubic meters. In my parents old house that was a problem. It was the last house on the string of 100 houses. In the morning you had to let the water run to drain the pipe all the way to the street and you would still only get 62 degree Celcius on the ingoing... money for nothing

[Covenant]

We have a 43 inch Plasma TV that is about 5 years old. Another culprit may be a 10Kw electric shower in the en-suite.
How can I measure individual consumption of appliances?

[Tim]

We have a 43 inch Plasma TV that is about 5 years old. Another culprit may be a 10Kw electric shower in the en-suite.
How can I measure individual consumption of appliances?
There are two ways, an individual watt meter that you plug an item into and get a read out. The other is something like an Owl, which you put at the consumer unit end. There are lots of different ones on the market

Owl CM119 Wireless Energy Monitor (http://www.ethicalsuperstore.com/products/2-save-energy/owl-119-wireless-energy-monitor/?PCode=FSGESS15&gclid=CPSej7GmzqoCFUMf4QodjFaH0g)

Plug-In Power and Energy Monitor (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plug-In-Power-and-Energy-Monitor/dp/B000Q7PJGW)

[Covenant]

Thanks Tim,
I shall get one of the plug-in ones and try to find the expensive to run appliances. Hope its not my hifi.

[worthingpagan]

Another culprit may be a 10Kw electric shower in the en-suite.
How can I measure individual consumption of appliances?


These use massive amounts of electricity, if you've got a condensing boiler you can run a shower straight from the bath taps and get good pressure. Try another supplier, I saved a bundle when i switched over from British gas to Atlantic ;)

[Covenant]

Yes, its something I will do (I already have a thermostatic shower in the main bathroom) but it will mean feeding a hot water supply into the shower cubicle and retiling so not a cheap remedy.

I only changed to BG two months ago but if they are going to shaft me with a 45% increase then I will be changing supplier.

[Reid Malenfant]

I have a power shower (not one that blasts you from every direction like some do :eyebrows:) which is basically a high pressure pump that feeds off of the hot water cylinder. As soon as you turn on the water the flow activates switches which turn the pump on.

Effectively this is the cheapest way of doing it ;)

[Covenant]

I just checked the cost of using the electric shower for 5 minutes and it was about 25 pence. Not as bad as I would have thought.

[Reid Malenfant]

I just checked the cost of using the electric shower for 5 minutes and it was about 25 pence. Not as bad as I would have thought.
Ouch, that's bad enough no? :eyebrows: My quarterly gas bill for this time of year is about £70, that's only me as i'm the only one here. If you have a family that could add up to a lot. My gas central heating only heats hot water for 1 hour in the morning & half an hour late afternoon & i get all the hot water i need for clothes washing (twin tub), dish washing (manual in the sink) & me washing :lol:

[Tim]

. . . for clothes washing (twin tub)
A twin tub :stalks:

Here's too ya :cool:

[Reid Malenfant]

:lolsign: Yeah i thought that might raise a few eyebrows :lol:

Stuff automatics, these wash & dry better as well as using less water :)

[Covenant]

Do you put your clothes through the mangle afterwards?

[Reid Malenfant]

Read twin tub, washer & spinner :ner:

[Covenant]

Ah but a mangle would get those long johns a bit drier before you stick 'em on the line.

[Reid Malenfant]

:lolsign:

[DSJR]

Do you chaps have Economy 7? Saves us a fortune and, according to our supplier (E.On), it's the standard electricity rate that's the killer on increases. The low rate is increasing by a tiny amount in comparison... Our dual fuel bill is currently £119 per calendar month and it's the computers that take up much of this.

[Reid Malenfant]

No economy 7 here Dave, only thing operating at those times of the night would be fridge & freezer. Economy 7 is perfect for storage heaters though, but i have gas central heating ;)

[Covenant]

No, in my case. When does the cheaper rate apply from? I guess we are a typical family with the house filling up from about 4pm and appliances being turned on during the evening. I suppose the washing machine (used every day) could be put on later.

[DSJR]

No economy 7 here Dave, only thing operating at those times of the night would be fridge & freezer. Economy 7 is perfect for storage heaters though, but i have gas central heating ;)

So so we, with a newish Vaillant condensing boiler (and magnaclean) but stick the washing machine on a timer (or get one with a timer on it) and you'll meet the minimum standards I reckon. I did just this when living alone and the suppliers accepted this..

[Reid Malenfant]

I'm not sure but it could be from 00:00AM to 7:00AM :scratch: Never had it so i'm just guessing :eyebrows:

[Reid Malenfant]

So so we, with a newish Vaillant condensing boiler (and magnaclean) but stick the washing machine on a timer (or get one with a timer on it) and you'll meet the minimum standards I reckon. I did just this when living alone and the suppliers accepted this..
You ever see a self loading twin tub :lolsign:

Just not possible, maybe Wallace & Grommit can make me a washomatic :eyebrows:

Nice thought Dave... It just isn't going to happen though.

[Trickie_Dickie]

We don't have Gas. Only Electricity and a coal fired Roomheater with backboiler for hot water and central heating.This time of year, our leccy bill was over £300 per quarter. With the fire out, all our hot water was provided by an immersion heater which was on 24 hours. By fitting a timer, set for three 1 hour sessions, we've cut our leccy bill to £200 per quarter. (We have a modern washing machine, tumble drier, dishwasher and electric cooker.)
Economy 7 isn't as good as they say unless you don't use much leccy during the day eg 7am till Midnight. Switching suppliers isn't much good either as they all put up their prices anyway. And don't forget.....you're also paying extra for all those claiming the Feed-In-Tariff payments.

[DSJR]

No, in my case. When does the cheaper rate apply from? I guess we are a typical family with the house filling up from about 4pm and appliances being turned on during the evening. I suppose the washing machine (used every day) could be put on later.

The low rate is supposed to be from midnight till 7am in the Winter and 1am until 8am in the Summer months. seriously, if you do loads and loads of washing, as we three seem to get through, you'd save a fortune doing the washing overnight if possible.

By the way, you lot aren't the type to use tumble dryers all through the year, are you? Our neighbours in Northants were so snooty, one way of showing their superiority was to tumble dry EVERYTHING, come sun and wind all year round, because they were "too busy" to hang the bloody stuff out for a few hours to let it blow dry in the fresh air - and to show they could afford to as well methinks :rolleyes:

[Reid Malenfant]

What's a tumble drier :scratch: :lol: My clothes go on an airer all year round, so much cheaper & strangely i get the same results :rolleyes:

[Tim]

I live in a flat and don't have a garden to hang stuff out, but would never tumble dry anything - ruins your clothes, just hang them on an airer... simples.

[Covenant]

A good development today. I took Mark's advice and phoned British Gas with the latest readings. They immediately agreed that they had set the monthly figure too high and reduced it to £135.
I still seem to pay far more than most people so I am going to get a power meter and spend some time finding what is expensive to run.