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sburrell
11-08-2011, 19:59
Hi,

I recently bought a Samsung SyncMaster F2380M monitor to use as a main display for my FreeSat box and notebook (when playing DVDs).

One thing I read about in a review was that, without the right settings, the F2380M can suffer from some noticeable ghosting. I applied the settings recommended in the review, and on the whole I'm satisfied.

But sometimes there seems to be noticeable ghosting or smearing when I watch a FreeSat broadcast, such as for example Star Trek: TNG on CBS Action. Is this a result of the broadcast, or my display? It happens even with small movements.

I also sometimes experience what I can only call, "purple smearing," when people move across the screen - a noticeable purple after-effect coming most noticeably from people's eyes. It was most prominent in a recent HD broadcast of Penn & Teller's Fool Us, but also happens with DVDs played from my notebook over a different cable and through a different interface on the TV.

This display is very well reviewed and I am pleased with the colour reproduction, but I have to figure out whether there's something wrong with it before too long so I can request an exchange etc.

Cheers all.

Tim
11-08-2011, 21:31
Hmmm, never experienced anything like that with my Panasonic, the freesat HD programmes are scarily pin sharp. Isn't that a PC monitor rather than a TV though - not sure you will be able to achieve the quality you desire through a monitor, or at least that's been my experience with monitors?

Reid Malenfant
11-08-2011, 21:39
Turn alll the bells & whistles off & see how the picture looks...

sburrell
12-08-2011, 20:52
Hey Tim,

I think what monitors lack (as opposed to TVs) is sophisticated upscaling hardware (oh, and obviously a tuner :eyebrows:) and I suspect this is what's responsible for some of the effects I'm seeing. It does present itself more in SD broadcasts that HD (if at all), which would make sense.

The purple smearing, though, I accept is a display issue that occurs in heavily red scenes (eg. Twin Peaks or Penn and Teller). I'm going to have to get in touch with Samsung to find a solution.

Oh, Mark, yeah, the first thing I did was turn off all the "bells and whistles" (I think Dynamic Contrast was the only one, actually). This was recommended by one of the reviews.

I'll chat to Samsung. Cheers dudes. :)

sburrell
17-08-2011, 21:39
Samsung uplifted the monitor yesterday under their warranty scheme. There's definitely something wrong with it - I'm using my Apple Cinema Display (same size, higher resolution) to watch TV in the meantime, and I'm getting absolutely none of the problems associated with the Samsung.

Fingers crossed.

By the way, Sharp have a new TV out, 32'' for 199, the LC32SH130. It has a built-in PVR feature, all you have to do is provide the storage via USB. Anyone any experience with it? Otherwise, what would people recommend for a 720p TV for no more than 250? Second-hand?

Thanks.

Reid Malenfant
17-08-2011, 21:55
If i remember correctly i bought a 28" but 1080P for about that price or less given fleabay discount vouchers over a year ago? :scratch: Might have been 27" though, no matter it had a good spec & a 3 year warranty :eyebrows:

I wouldn't bother with any 720P or 768P TVs or monitors nowadays.. Everything is being thrown at 1080P so that is where the best picture will be with modern processing ;)

sburrell
17-08-2011, 21:57
Does it matter that I won't be using any 1080p material? I don't have blu-ray or a 1080p console, and FreeSat HD is all 720p.

Reid Malenfant
17-08-2011, 22:02
Hmm, in that case you may well be better off with a native 720P TV/monitor as it won't have to process a thing. Apologies as i can't comment on Freesat picture quality as i haven't seen it.

Sky on the other hand use either 720P or 1080i, if you were watching that i'd suggest a 1080P TV as de-interlacing isn't too dificult & on 1080i material you'd get a vastly superior picture ;)

sburrell
17-08-2011, 22:06
Aha, I didn't know that Sky did actually broadcast some shows in 1080. Ach, I'll never get Sky, I'm too stingy. Besides, I'm happy with FreeSat HD. I guess a 720p TV it is! :)

Thanks Mark.

Oh who's the chappy in your avatar? Your good self?

Reid Malenfant
17-08-2011, 22:12
:lolsign: No, not me, i hope i don't look quite so stroppy :eyebrows:

Mr Brian Williams, AKA (B) Lustmord (http://www.discogs.com/artist/Lustmord)... Love his music, but i guess it's kind of dark & mysterious in certain ways.

Kind of how he looks :eyebrows: I'm not too far off, just no goatee :lolsign:

Stratmangler
17-08-2011, 22:18
You sure about the 720i bit ?
IIRC my Panasonic Freesat equipped TV displays 1080i in the top left of the screen when there's a dish attached and the Freesat selected to view.

chris@panteg
20-08-2011, 16:25
1080i and 720p are more or less the same resolution , all HD is currently broadcast in 1080i but its not the same as 1080p ! The bandwith is too large , only bluray offers 1080p.

Themis
20-08-2011, 16:40
HD is broadcasted in 720p in US, plus Belgium and Norway. ;)

chris@panteg
20-08-2011, 16:48
I think Japan is the only country to broadcast in 1080p , no surprises there lol.

ursus262
20-08-2011, 17:04
I have a Samsung SyncMaster 2450 as my main TV display, because it is connected to my Humax HD PVR and so don't need a TV as such.

It does indeed sound as if the monitor is faulty, because I get stunning HD and SD pictures on mine. I actually got best results setting the monitor to Intelligent Colour on AV mode. The results are breathtaking, so I wish you luck with the replacement

And if you need to share notes about setting it up, then do PM me and we can talk it through so you get the best results.

Dave

sburrell
20-08-2011, 17:05
I think it's about time there were respectable reference materials presented in a thread like this (instead of tid-bits from - no offence - people who may or may not know what they're talking about), so how about we start with this, from the European Broadcasting Union website:
Technical Report 005 - Information Paper on HDTV Formats (February 2010) (http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/techreports/tr005.pdf)
A very interesting (and concise, so don't worry) read.

The conclusion is that 720p offers a better subjective experience for the viewer, especially with fast-motion content (eg. football).

1080p/50 is mentioned only as a future format, not a currently available format, though of course being only a European paper it doesn't take into account innovations and production improvements in Japan (for example).

I'd like it if people could similarly back up their statements with equally respectable sources. I'll repeat: no offence intended; however, this is a technical discussion now, so genuine citations would be nice. :)

sburrell
20-08-2011, 17:19
ursus262: aha, someone else who took the monitor-as-TV-display route. I checked out that model and it sounds nice, especially the 2ms response time. Mine's only quoted at 8ms, but according to the review that sold me on it (http://www.digitalversus.com/samsung-syncmaster-f2380m-p357_6293_36.html) it should have been more than ample for my purposes. *shrug*

You know, it's funny: internet purchasing makes products cheaper because stores have lower overheads, but because you can't view the product first it's a bit of a crapshoot. OTOH, brick and mortar stores are more expensive because of the overheads, but whilst it's possible to view the products prior to purchase, so few of them set up the TVs with any kind of view to optimising the display for viewing purposes, it defeats the purpose.

Both funny and sad, really, like much of Life... :eyebrows:

Reid Malenfant
20-08-2011, 17:31
1080p/50 is mentioned only as a future format, not a currently available format, though of course being only a European paper it doesn't take into account innovations and production improvements in Japan (for example).
It also doesn't take into account what can be had out the back end of a quality scaler like the Calibre Vantage HD2. This will happily double the frame rate of 1080P images.

If you aren't happy taking my word for it then go look at the specs (http://www.calibreuk.com/Vantagehd2.php) ;) Oh, it'll happilly do the very same with 24P as well (48P) :cool:

chris@panteg
20-08-2011, 17:55
I think it's about time there were respectable reference materials presented in a thread like this (instead of tid-bits from - no offence - people who may or may not know what they're talking about), so how about we start with this, from the European Broadcasting Union website:
Technical Report 005 - Information Paper on HDTV Formats (February 2010) (http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/techreports/tr005.pdf)
A very interesting (and concise, so don't worry) read.

The conclusion is that 720p offers a better subjective experience for the viewer, especially with fast-motion content (eg. football).

1080p/50 is mentioned only as a future format, not a currently available format, though of course being only a European paper it doesn't take into account innovations and production improvements in Japan (for example).

I'd like it if people could similarly back up their statements with equally respectable sources. I'll repeat: no offence intended; however, this is a technical discussion now, so genuine citations would be nice. :)


Ok , well Japan is most certainly ahead of the rest of the world as far as HD is concerned , Fact !

http://www.hdtv-news.com/news/super-hi-vision-broadcast/

:ner:

Reid Malenfant
20-08-2011, 18:03
Ok , well Japan is most certainly ahead of the rest of the world as far as HD is concerned , Fact !

http://www.hdtv-news.com/news/super-hi-vision-broadcast/

:ner:
Chris, i think you'll find it's otherwise known as 4K & i might be wrong, but i'm sure the Yanks have been broadcasting it for a couple of years on selected stations & transmitters ;)

E2A:- 4K broadcasting (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&cp=15&gs_id=1m&xhr=t&q=4k+broadcasting&pf=p&sclient=psy&biw=1159&bih=640&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=4k+broadcasting&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=ce1c2996fcfd54a3). You might like to look up UHDTV as well ;)

sburrell
20-08-2011, 18:06
lol, I like that they had to create a special lens just so that the light hitting the sensor was good enough. So, if Japan starts broadcasting S.H.V. by 2020, I imagine the rest if us European retards can expect it by century's end.

You can get NHK in HD on FreeSat, if that's your bag, Chris?

chris@panteg
20-08-2011, 18:08
Chris, i think you'll find it's otherwise known as 4K & i might be wrong, but i'm sure the Yanks have been broadcasting it for a couple of years on selected stations & transmitters ;)

E2A:- 4K broadcasting (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&cp=15&gs_id=1m&xhr=t&q=4k+broadcasting&pf=p&sclient=psy&biw=1159&bih=640&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=4k+broadcasting&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=ce1c2996fcfd54a3). You might like to look up UHDTV as well ;)

Well it did state it was the 1st of its kind .

4K appears to be 3840x2160/25p , this Japanese system is higher than that @ 7680-by-4320 pixels

chris@panteg
20-08-2011, 18:13
This seems to be a very good explanation to the European HD standards .

http://www.burnyourbonus.info/hdtv-faq/faq2.html

Reid Malenfant
20-08-2011, 18:14
You may well be right ;) I haven't done much research as if it's not available there doesn't appear to be a lot of point in filling my head with worthless information :eyebrows:

chris@panteg
20-08-2011, 18:17
lol, I like that they had to create a special lens just so that the light hitting the sensor was good enough. So, if Japan starts broadcasting S.H.V. by 2020, I imagine the rest if us European retards can expect it by century's end.

You can get NHK in HD on FreeSat, if that's your bag, Chris?

Lol its not my bag , you asked if people could be more factual ! I'm trying to be factual :eyebrows:

Bog standard HD is good enough for me at 720p or 1080i :)

sburrell
20-08-2011, 18:37
Mark, 4K, it turns out, refers to ~4000 pixels horizontally (BroadcastEngineering.com (http://broadcastengineering.com/news/ebu_argues_case_for_4k_hdtv_06132011/index.html)), whilst (as Chris has subsequently posted) the NHK IP broadcast is greater than 4000 pixels in the vertical.
According to this article (http://tech.ebu.ch/news/4k-comes-to-nab-19apr11), the ITU-R (http://www.itu.int/ITU-R/index.asp?category=information&rlink=rhome&lang=en) (International Telecommunications Union - Radiocommunication sector) is, as of April 2011, still standardising the 4K format, whilst also researching the successor, 8K.
The reason, by the way, for 4K specifying the horizontal resolution as opposed to the vertical (as we, as consumers, are accustomed to) is:

because this made it easier to handle the many different aspect ratios, which could then be addressed by varying the vertical resolution. (link (http://www.etcenter.org/2011/06/european-broadcast-union-argues-case-for-future-4k-hdtv/))
Interesting, huh? Tell you what, it makes me keen to know which cinemas in my area use 4K projectors.
EDIT: Chris - I'm not sure I believe in facts any more, only statements that are either more or less convincing - after all, we as individuals decide what we believe (see Michel Foucault). That's why I recommended "respectable reference materials". Thanks for trying, though! :)
DOUBLE EDIT: Makes me glad I'm sticking to DVD just now - I'll wait for 4K to take off for consumers before replacing my collection I think :)

Reid Malenfant
20-08-2011, 18:47
Tell you what, it makes me keen to know which cinemas in my area use 4K projectors.
Hi Simon, i gave up on cinema years ago :eyebrows:

Ok, so it's nothing new but i have a nice 120" screen with a 1080P projector... No people in the way, no idiots making noise or crunching on popcorn :rolleyes: I can pause it & go to the loo if needed, i can have a cigarette when i want :)

I guess i do have an odd TV though which is superb with widescreen stuff! I guess it'd be called 2.56K :lol: (2560 x 1080).


Having said that though, if you pick your time right......

E2A:-I should add that i no longer watch any kind of broadcast signal either, what's on TV these days honestly doesn't interest me a great deal :)

sburrell
21-08-2011, 18:28
120''? 10 Feet? That's the width of my entire front room. I'm a little confused though - you say it has a 1080p projector, but then refer to it as a "TV". Is it a screen/projector combo or an all-in-one unit (eg. back-projection)?

Reid Malenfant
21-08-2011, 18:33
If you look at my signature Simon you'll see i have both a 1080P projector (Mitsubishi HC5000) & a Philips 21/9 superwidescreen TV ;)

So both in the same room :cool: In fact if i remember right you can click on the bit that says "main system" & it'll take you to my gallery thread where you can see them both (& in action)..

sburrell
21-08-2011, 19:10
:stalks:

e9Qjpvfh9Ec

Kind of sums it up for me…

Reid Malenfant
21-08-2011, 19:21
:scratch: All i see is a blank white rectangle :eyebrows:

sburrell
21-08-2011, 19:26
Do you have Flash installed?

Reid Malenfant
21-08-2011, 19:28
Yes ;)

Themis
21-08-2011, 20:43
:scratch: All i see is a blank white rectangle :eyebrows:
Same here. Bad url, probably. ;)

sburrell
22-08-2011, 00:52
No, 'twas my first time embedding a Youtube link, and I thought you had to include the whole URL between the tags - I was wrong! Working now... :)

sburrell
26-08-2011, 17:02
Here's a video of the issue I'm experiencing with my Samsung. Looks even worse connected to my Mac:
OL77ip_Nulc
You can see the red trails especially around Katy Perry's hair, some further atrocious ghosting demonstrated by the way the dark guy's hair elongates quite obviously and finally white trails from the white 6.5 rating in the bottom right.

Bloody engineers had my display for 5 days and didn't notice this??????

Themis
26-08-2011, 19:22
You can see the red trails especially around Katy Perry's hair, some further atrocious ghosting demonstrated by the way the dark guy's hair elongates quite obviously and finally white trails from the white 6.5 rating in the bottom right.

Bloody engineers had my display for 5 days and didn't notice this??????
:doh: