PDA

View Full Version : PSU's for Technics Deck - Sonic Benefits Please



RobbieGong
08-08-2011, 11:58
Hi guys - I've decided to add another thread in response to loads of stuf regarding external PSU's for the Technics turntable that a number of us have been digesting for some time. There are now a good number of PSU's and PSU options including make your own, Richards Vantage options, Timestep, Paul Hynes, Audio Fidelity, Origin Live, Mains Cables R Us etc. The various threads have resulted in a lot of technical info regarding the internals, talk of 'chokes' and all sorts of tec speak which although useful doesn't necessarily help the regular Joe like myself who is generally influenced by info re: sonic benefits, changes, influences to the sound etc. (After all, these things are a fair outlay for most of us) So what have people found to be the benefits to overall presentation or not as the case may be?? :scratch:

I've lifted the following from a previous AOS PSU related thread, posted yesterday which says quote:
I'm with the people who trust their ears so I'm not asking for measurements but when can someone post some before/after PSU-mod sound files? I can post some recordings I've made of my Technics with the stock PSU and the CD release of the same track for comparison and I reckon the vinyl recordings sound better. I'm not convinced an external PSU is going to add anything but I'd love to hear evidence to the contrary.

As a result could any AOS members please offer up their own experiences of any sonic benefits or changes, positive or otherwise, including the PSU used which I think could be pretty useful to a lot of us and I guess pretty interesting too. Some of us have 'upgraded' from say Timestep to Paul Hynes etc - what were the sonic changes experienced ? Obviously any comments are general as we are aware that this is all subjective and like all things hifi, fairly system dependant. As I say comments are likely to be interesting and useful all the same. If we could keep to sonics that would be great as we've already covered a lot of ground from a technical aspect I think - Thanks and here we go :)

MartinT
08-08-2011, 13:17
I wrote about my Paul Hynes SR5-21 from this post onwards:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=172317&postcount=37

RobbieGong
08-08-2011, 15:08
Thanks Martin :)

RobbieGong
11-08-2011, 22:35
A large number of psu's out there, numerous folk out there like me curious as to what others have found any of these external psu's have added to the sonic presentation. We can't really try them, there not cheap (400 maybe 500+) and only Martin has expressed his findings. :scratch: Ok, I can only assume that the changes are not that big, obvious or so subtle they are hard to define ? - Not particularly encouraging for techy modders who were already not in a hurry to spend this sort of money over other improvements ie: good cartridge, isonoe feet, mat etc and an awful lot of tunes ! without even some encouraging reviews / recommendations - At least some !! As I've already said, I can only assume........................ :confused:

MartinT
12-08-2011, 07:09
Sorry you're not getting the postings here, Robbie, but do try using the search facility as there are reams of material on Techie power supplies. There is no doubt that the overwhelming experiences are positive with improvements ranging from significant to bloody hell!

The Technics tends to respond to upgrades such as the PSU and bearing very well, improving on its base benefits of timing and rhythm with greatly uplifted dynamics, better tonal neutrality and a very structural, solid feel to music compared with many belt drive decks. I'll leave others to speak of their findings, but please do take a look around as the wealth of material is very rich.

The Vinyl Adventure
12-08-2011, 08:31
I bought the original timestep when it was basically the only option ...
It was a stunning upgrade!
This is a few years back now so this is all distant memory, but I do remember being stunned by the difference!
Not by any stretch was it subtle!
The sound was significantly more open!

I don't know much about this sort of thing but I always got the impression that a lot of the difference was down to having the psu outside of the turntable ...
I'm sure a lot of people will jump on me here and tell me not to speculate when I didn't hear any of the other options, but I'd bet the difference between different psu's is a lot less than the difference between having and internal and external psu!
With that in mind, I have suggested to people outside of the forum to try and just externalise the current psu... It wouldnt cost hardly anything, you just need to find someone to tell you how to do it ... Safely ...

I'm well out of the techie loop now having sold mine a while ago, and frankly I always get a little fearful posting in techie threads ... So sorry if this treads on any toes or is old ground ... Just thought I'd chuck it in there as budget seems to be a concern!

Marco
12-08-2011, 09:15
You're absolutely right, Hamish.

The biggest difference fitting an external PSU makes is in removing that magnetic field-inducing, sonically degrading, big lump of ferrous metal (known as the PSU) from underneath the Techy platter, providing of course that it is removed, as some folk who fit a Timestep PSU, or whatever, merely disable the stock PSU and leave it in situ, thereby virtually negating the point of doing the job in the first place!! :doh:

For details of how to externalise the stock Techy PSU, see Sonddek's post here (#18): http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8118&page=2

However, externalising the PSU aside, there are still major sonic gains to be had by employing the use of high-quality off-board PSUs, like the Vantage Audio or Paul Hynes SR5, simply because of the superior quality of the components used, particularly the huge over-specified transformers, in the case of the Paul Hynes.

It's about achieving extremely effective noise reduction and allowing the superb Technics D/D motor to realise its full potential - and that's where top-notch external PSUs come into their own.

Let's not forget that the Techy was built to a price, so a turntable which cost 500 new is not going to have 500 worth of power supply inside it, is it? ;)

Robert, trust me, fitting the likes of a Vantage Audio or SR5 PSU, is one of the most fundamental huge upgrades you can do to an SL-1200/1210!

Marco.

drrd
12-08-2011, 11:09
Still for all the opinions I can't find any sound files posted to demonstrate the improvements of an external PSU. As I mentioned in one of the many other PSU threads my deck sounds the same with the power off or on and even with a 70db gain phono amp there is no audible hum when moving the arm over the deck. I plug everything into an Equitech balanced transformer so that may explain my findings and in that case I'm sorted. I recall 20 years ago a friend used to dj with Technics decks that there was audible hum as you moved the tonearm over the platter (towards the internal transformer) and this was with a MM so much less gain.

Marco
12-08-2011, 11:29
Hi Russell,

You're not likely to get many (if any) sound files "demonstrating" the difference because:

A) People who fit an external PSU just want to get the job done ASAP, without messing around recording files with their T/Ts with and without and external PSU, to post on forums, and once the stock PSU is removed, there's no quick way of going back.

B) Recorded files prove very little and as such are not reliable as definitive judgement criteria, as you'll have noticed if you've listened to some of the 'needle-drops' posted elsewhere, where the sound processed digitally through a computer (and thus corrupting the analogue signal to a degree) does not accurately resemble how T/Ts *actually* sound 'live' in someone's system.

Therefore the files you're looking for would likely tell you very little.

Also, it's not really about reducing hum - it's about removing a magnetic field from around the operating area of the cartridge above, particularly if it's a low-output MC design, as the field generated by the PSU underneath the Techy platter, interferes with the high-frequency response of the cartridge, making it sound 'veiled' and 'thick', in comparison to how the cartridge would sound if the PSU (and its associated magnetic field) wasn't there.

Removing the ferrous PSU from underneath the platter (and the magnetic field with it) 'frees-up' the high-frequency response of the cartridge and allows it to 'breathe', and the resulting sonic benefits are far from subtle!

However, the best way of assessing this for yourself is to move from pontificating, to having actual practical experience and using your own ears... *That* is where you will find your proof.

Most external T/T PSU manufacturers offer a money back guarantee, so try it yourself and report back, or spend the rest of your life farting about looking for non-existent 'proof' and wondering "What if?" The choice is yours! ;)

Marco.

MartinT
12-08-2011, 11:45
Still for all the opinions I can't find any sound files posted to demonstrate the improvements of an external PSU. As I mentioned in one of the many other PSU threads my deck sounds the same with the power off or on and even with a 70db gain phono amp there is no audible hum when moving the arm over the deck.

It's not about removing hum, Russell. That would be a rather basic problem and we are talking about much more fundamental changes to the deck's music making abilities. As Marco says, moving the 'iron' from under the platter helps, but also bypassing that dreadful regulator transistor bolted to the chassis by feeding +21V direct to the PCB makes a big difference to the ripple seen by the motor drive electronics.

The fact that the Timestep, SR3 and SR5 all had increasingly improved detail, dynamics, soundstage, air and bass impact proved to me that PSU regulation (the ability to hold voltage no matter what the current draw) is an important criterion and makes it worthwhile buying the best you can.

I can't give you before and after needle drops to listen to, but I doubt that converting the precious analogue signal to digital would give you the full story anyway. What I can say is that adding an external PSU will make your jaw drop, in a way that many of us have already experienced. You may have to make a leap of faith - or else find one of us that lives close to you and come and have a listen :)

RobbieGong
12-08-2011, 11:56
Thanks guys for contributions, appreciated. I'm also curious as to whether David has tried or heard his own mains r us rather tasty looking techy psu (yes i know, I'm a bit fickle and looks matter - a bit :eyebrows: ) I think David has the Paul Hynes SR5 ? - I'm curious and would love his views, experience or findings in relation to these ;) and maybe why he's chosen one over the other. Also I know he did have a Timestep at one point - what differences or improvements did you find David when changing over, please :)

The Vinyl Adventure
12-08-2011, 11:58
I'm gonna chip in again ... :)
There are a lot of things in hifi where people say "night and day" that are frankly bollocks! This is not a bollocks upgrade!
If you can be arsed, dig back through my threads, I'm sure I posted one about te timestep ... It makes it like a new bit of kit!

Marco
12-08-2011, 12:05
You may have to make a leap of faith - or else find one of us that lives close to you and come and have a listen


Good shout, Martin. There must be a modded (PSU) Techy user on AoS, who lives in the SW of England, who could demonstrate the difference to Russell :)

Marco.

P.S When are you fitting your new silver DC lead to your SR5? I'd do it ASAP, mate, as the improvement isn't subtle!

drrd
12-08-2011, 12:11
You're probably underestimating what digital gear is capable of but I take your point. Actually with the gear I use I've found recordings indispensable. Some of these deck changes take a few minutes or maybe a lot longer. With a recording I can directly A-B. It's helped a great deal with mats, cartridge loading, VTA etc etc. I would expect these to be quite subtle changes compared with the descriptions of a PSU swap and a quick A-B makes them fairly obvious. What I have learned though is sometimes 'different' and 'better' aren't the same thing.

The Vinyl Adventure
12-08-2011, 12:11
P.S When are you fitting your new silver DC lead to your SR5? I'd do it ASAP, mate, as the improvement isn't subtle!

Its not that sort of upgrade Russell ... Marco and Martin have crazy hifis that reveal alsorts of stuff ...
The psu upgrade is the sort of upgrade you could hear on a more common level of hifi!

Marco
12-08-2011, 12:27
You're probably underestimating what digital gear is capable of...


Nope, I've used digital gear to do needle-drops of my T/T, so I'm speaking from experience. What came out with the files, whilst good (despite some set-up issues) is not a facsimile of what I hear from my T/T in my own system.

Therefore, it's not unreasonable to assume that the same would apply when comparing files from a T/T, via a computer, with and without an external PSU. The results would not necessarily be conclusive.


Actually with the gear I use I've found recordings indispensable. Some of these deck changes take a few minutes or maybe a lot longer. With a recording I can directly A-B. It's helped a great deal with mats, cartridge loading, VTA etc etc.


Whose recordings are you referring to - your own or someone else's?


I would expect these to be quite subtle changes compared with the descriptions of a PSU swap and a quick A-B makes them fairly obvious. What I have learned though is sometimes 'different' and 'better' aren't the same thing.

Well, as others who *know* have said, the sonic effect of removing the stock PSU from an SL-1200, and fitting a quality external one, is FAR from subtle and most definitely comes under the category of better!

So what's your next move now from here? You took a punt on your MN bearing, so you should also do the same with an external PSU - you won't regret it :)

Marco.

MartinT
12-08-2011, 12:44
P.S When are you fitting your new silver DC lead to your SR5? I'd do it ASAP, mate, as the improvement isn't subtle!

It's on my job-list Marco, possibly next week.

MartinT
12-08-2011, 12:46
Russell - where are you in SW England? If you're within a shout of Basingstoke, then you'd be welcome to come over and have a listen.

drrd
12-08-2011, 13:49
I think at some point I'll have to just get hold of one and try it for myself :) I have a small project to sort on my phono amp first then I'll look into it.

Marco
12-08-2011, 14:33
I think at some point I'll have to just get hold of one and try it for myself :)


Always the best way, muchacho. Use your own T/T and system as the testing template, and your ears as the final arbiter!

Just make sure that when you fit the external PSU of your choice, that the stock PSU is removed from underneath the platter, otherwise you won't get the same 'hit'...

Which external PSU do you fancy trying? :)

Marco.

RobbieGong
12-08-2011, 16:43
Always the best way, muchacho. Use your own T/T and system as the testing template, and your ears as the final arbiter!

Just make sure that when you fit the external PSU of your choice, that the stock PSU is removed from underneath the platter, otherwise you won't get the same 'hit'...

Which external PSU do you fancy trying? :)

Marco.

You've a heck of a lot of choice out there Russell, hence the reason for my thread and plea for folk to post their personal sonic findings. We've had some responses re: Timestep and Paul Hynes (Thanks again guys) and as Martins pointed out there'll be stuf on the forum somewhere re: some of the others ie: Vantage Audio etc. would be great to get something up on the Origin live, mains r us and even the Audio Fidelity external psu's for our treasured techies.
I added my Timestep at the same time as the Mike New bearing so hard for me to give findings based on Timestep alone. One thing I will add though, listening to tunes as we speak is that the whole presentation has changed no doubt. It actually at first gets some getting used to because these two upgrades together really are big and take you to that 'audiophile' place where playback becomes quite true in respect of the actual recording on the vinyl. I'm sure this has been pointed out and expressed before that as a result bad recordings are not glossed over and presented tidier or less true but you know it is a not so good recording rather than your system not playing well so to speak, samely good recordings are truer and a joy, nuances and all those other little things coming through as they really are - no two tunes really sound the same even on the same lp because you are hearing the truth of the recording etc. I know Marco, Martin and others who have really travelled the techy modding journey will confirm exactly what i'm saying ;) - Addictive !! ;) once you're at this stage you just could never go back, absolutely no way cause your hearing more than just the music :dance:

MartinT
12-08-2011, 17:14
It is very addictive, Robert. One thing that still makes me smile is this idea that vinyl only ever sounds warm or adds euphonic distortions or lacks detail or whatever.

No way! It sounds to me every bit as tonally neutral and detailed as my SACD player, but with more soundstage cues, a very clean top end and dynamics that even my Ayre has trouble matching.

RobbieGong
12-08-2011, 17:32
It is very addictive, Robert. One thing that still makes me smile is this idea that vinyl only ever sounds warm or adds euphonic distortions or lacks detail or whatever.

No way! It sounds to me every bit as tonally neutral and detailed as my SACD player, but with more soundstage cues, a very clean top end and dynamics that even my Ayre has trouble matching.

For real Martin !! Vinyl on a 'proper' turntable ie: sorted techy (within a decent system) is so true that it's not about coloured or glossed over but can in fact be all the things you've pointed out so that the character of each instrument steps forward sounding as it should or does, coupled with this is that due to things playing as they are each track brings it's honesty and as I've said your not getting this false samey, tidy glossed over presentaion to everything - True is it and true is addictive big time, your a witness as is Marco and so many others no doubt. I've spent near on 1300 which includes the wonderful 2M black, Timestep, Mike New bearing, KAB fluid damper etc and getting to where it's now taken me has been worth every penny regardless of any frustration which the modding journey can be cause when it comes together... well I've already said :) ;) :eyebrows:

REXTON
12-08-2011, 18:52
I've got a TimeStep HE which I've lived with now for about 8 months. It's a great piece of kit, simple to fit and made from reasonable quality components. I'll soon be upgrading to the SR7 which is Paul's top end power supply. I'll also be sourcing some new power leads (pure silver) and then I think i'll stop with the cables and then start internal pcb regulators :lol: Anyway, back to topic. I'm listening to Miles Davis (Kind of Blue) i can hear every band member, I can follow the decay of the double bass or Bill Evans on Piano, I have a wide soundstage filling my room. Miles is slap bang in the centre of the room.
I bought this album in Nottingham today whilst there I also visited superfi which is a hi-fi shop. Pride of place in the entrance was the new Marantz pearl CD / SACD player playing some tosh in the background. All i can say is give me my 1210 + mods any day of the week. It can get very addictive modding the 1210 but the performance you get will bowl anything over.

RobbieGong
12-08-2011, 20:37
Spot on, I still have the stock arm, mat and platter in place and I can here the differences between every tune, no two tunes sound the same and I can follow the playing of individual instrument parts, especially after fitting the Timestep and Mike New bearing together, heaven only knows what some of you guys must be gettin, (the blinkin musicians tappin you on the shoulder and givin you a wink !? - :lolsign:) honestly. I also have the base Timestep. I have the rated Marantz CD63 KI Signature and still much prefer listening to my vinyl. I want more of the where people are placed but I want to keep the stock arm as it works a treat with the very very good 2M black - the fantastic fly on the wheel vta adjust is just excellent on the stock arm. Dont really want to change the platter either really. I'm sure there are a couple of things I could do to squeeze even more of the 'in the studio with them ' or the
' they're right here in the room with me' stuf out of the techy ie: maybe a quality cable for the Timestep? Anyway back to topic :) !!

REXTON
13-08-2011, 14:47
The extrinisc power supply also gave me a greater sense of Bass. If you dont want to spend any more money on your deck and want to play with the power supply a good quality screened power cable may help, try placing your power supply as far away from your deck as possibe and onto something which may isolate vibration from it. A cheap silver fuse (you can buy them for 1ish on the net) may also help for your power lead. You really do need to read and search the numerous threads on how to mod your 1210. One piece of advice I will give you is to learn how the characteristics of your deck. By doing this you will be able to see if a new tweek or upgrade has been beneficial. Finally I have a marantz CD63SE (yes I just slagged marantz off:lol:), but this trumps my other CD player a Quad 77. My marantz cost 35 from cash converters. I have some home made silver IC's and it sounds great!! :cool:

RobbieGong
13-08-2011, 21:14
Cheers man and thanks for the advise. I've been modding slowly but surely for a while now and she's always sounded good even as things have changed. I'll look into the silver fuse and moving my power supply away from where it currently sits which is directly next to my techie. I also may well take David from mains r us up on his offer to borrow a demo model of the technics external psu they do, just so I can see what improvements over my Timestep there's may bring (It does look very nice and on paper looks like quality, just need to hear if it 'sounds' as good as it looks). In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy the music for a bit ;)

REXTON
14-08-2011, 08:54
Silver fuses can be bought for bewteen 65p to 99p in the net if you look around but that dosent included p&p

RobbieGong
14-08-2011, 13:07
Silver fuses can be bought for bewteen 65p to 99p in the net if you look around but that dosent included p&p

Hi Rexton (Andrew), Thanks for that, so how do these silver fuses help?, I'm being educated all the time and that's cool cause I know ignorance means you learn nothing ;) I can well imagine that any improvement here is likely to be fairly subltle but better all the same ? Cheers !
P>S: Noticed you have this Nordost tonearm cable - Did a google search and nearly had heart failure when I saw the price :stalks: :stalks: :eek: Good Golly Miss Molly !! You guys are serious with a capital S (Not to mention a tad more minted that I :lolsign: ) Nice !!

MCRU
14-08-2011, 15:47
Silver is the best electrical conductor known to man, next is copper, so silver plating a fuse will improve conductivity, even better if the fuse has pure silver wire in it but that is a different story! Read The Conductivity of Metals used in Hi-Fi (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/content/7-downloads-links) as it will give you a better idea of which metals are used in hi-fi and what their merits are.

Robbie I will send you some silver plated fuses gratis just pm your address dude.

MCRU
14-08-2011, 16:14
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/chart3.jpg

colinB
14-08-2011, 17:34
If brass is so bad a uk plug must be the first bottle neck in the system.

REXTON
14-08-2011, 17:39
Hi Rexton (Andrew), Thanks for that, so how do these silver fuses help?, I'm being educated all the time and that's cool cause I know ignorance means you learn nothing ;) I can well imagine that any improvement here is likely to be fairly subltle but better all the same ? Cheers !
P>S: Noticed you have this Nordost tonearm cable - Did a google search and nearly had heart failure when I saw the price :stalks: :stalks: :eek: Good Golly Miss Molly !! You guys are serious with a capital S (Not to mention a tad more minted that I :lolsign: ) Nice !!

I must admit I have no experience with using silver fuses, this is going to be the next stage in upgrades for me. In the next 4 weeks I'll have a system that is completely silver (balanced interconnects, power cords). As for the tonearm cable, well, that was a pressie to myself a few years ago. You could always try using pure silver on your stock techie tonearm with Eichmann silver bullets. The benefits would be massive, it probably cost you a couple of hundred quid but you would NEVER need to mess around buying different tonearm cables ever again. I can make you one up if your interested. They are very easy to fit, how good are you with a soldering iron??

MCRU
14-08-2011, 17:51
If brass is so bad a uk plug must be the first bottle neck in the system.


quite right hence silver plated, gold plated and rhodium plated uk plugs

I even made a batch of rhodium plated over silver plated for one customer

:)

colinB
14-08-2011, 18:03
quite right hence silver plated, gold plated and rhodium plated uk plugs

I even made a batch of rhodium plated over silver plated for one customer

:)

Have to ask. Did you notice the difference?

MCRU
14-08-2011, 18:28
Have to ask. Did you notice the difference?

The plug has to be connected to a cable so it's difficult to say which one sounds best as everyone uses different cables, until I started selling my Ultimate cables I was using silver plated MK toughplugs for years on all my cables with neotech mains cable (I have used 10-15 cables over the years) and that sounded very good, then when I started selling Furutech I used their mains plugs and as they only sell gold or rhodium plated I had little choice other then to try both (the Furutech are the only sensible plug able to accept thick diameter cable), with the ultra pure copper used in the ultimate cable rhodium plated plugs sound best by a country mile, I was able to hear things I never heard before in my favourite records and the voices were far closer to me which I presume is the sound stage widening.
Others who use pure silver cables (I have used those as well) will prefer silver plated plugs with them I guess as I have never come across rhodium plated copper cables yet!
I sent a pure silver cable out to a customer in Huddersfield a few weeks ago when I went to listen to his concrete speakers, he was flabbergasted how good the cable was and that one had an Oyaide rhodium over silver IEC and one of my reference silver played plugs on!
So Colin if you look at what your mains cables are made of, if it's copper I reckon rhodium will sound good, it it's silver plated copper or pure silver then silver plating or even pure silver IEC is possible, there are 1000's of combinations and I have tried many of them, the best mains lead I have ever heard and used has rhodium connectors and plugs on so at the moment I am a fan of that until something better comes along, Marco will agree 100% with me on that score.:)

colinB
14-08-2011, 18:48
Interesting Dave , thanks. I couldnt afford to replace all of my Merlin cables, to many other things i want to change in my system, but the IECs are rubbish and ive read many times the state of standard uk plugs compared with european shukos. Have to modify some time.

MCRU
14-08-2011, 18:57
Interesting Dave , thanks. I couldnt afford to replace all of my Merlin cables, to many other things i want to change in my system, but the IECs are rubbish and ive read many times the state of standard uk plugs compared with european shukos. Have to modify some time.

Most of the merlin range have the schurter iec fitted, up-grading to an IeGo will bring immediate improvements. In case you have not heard of IeGo they are ex furutech and use pure copper as the base metal for their IEC connectors, they then plate over the copper or if you want the best (apart from the 230 Furutech carbon fibre IEC) then IeGo make a pure silver IEC. Providing you like the sound silver imparts of course! You could always try one to see if you like it first.

colinB
14-08-2011, 19:03
Its the IeGo plugs ive been looking at funnily enough. Bloody good price compared with inferior constructed Wattgates

MCRU
14-08-2011, 19:17
Its the IeGo plugs ive been looking at funnily enough. Bloody good price compared with inferior constructed Wattgates

I have to sell wattgates because some people want a branded product, if I had my way I would stop selling them tomorrow as the IeGo (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/9_iego) knocks the pants off them, yes OK the 320i is less than 20 but it's not much good IMHO of course, the IeGo base model is 29.50 and uses pure copper instead of brass or phosphor bronze which is what others use. Silver plated wattgates are better but you still have the inferior base metal, interestingly neither the wattgate or RA website say what the base metal is????

colinB
14-08-2011, 19:24
Seems daft for RA to use brass pins with high purity copper Kimber.

MCRU
14-08-2011, 19:35
Seems daft for RA to use brass pins with high purity copper Kimber.

Talking of daft, this sells for 2630.00, unless I am mistaken it is fitted with a 13 industrial grade clipsal plug un-treated? :)

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/ruaaaaaaa.jpg

colinB
14-08-2011, 19:58
Thats insane. Mind you ive seen inside those wooden things and how they connect each individual core. Looks like a bastard to wire.

MartinT
14-08-2011, 20:24
That 16A Hubbel connector wouldn't fit in my Chord power amp as the socket is so deeply recessed. It's a bastard getting a cable made up for it (I ended up filing the Hubbel connector's case to get my Kimber Powerkord to fit).

RobbieGong
14-08-2011, 22:13
I must admit I have no experience with using silver fuses, this is going to be the next stage in upgrades for me. In the next 4 weeks I'll have a system that is completely silver (balanced interconnects, power cords). As for the tonearm cable, well, that was a pressie to myself a few years ago. You could always try using pure silver on your stock techie tonearm with Eichmann silver bullets. The benefits would be massive, it probably cost you a couple of hundred quid but you would NEVER need to mess around buying different tonearm cables ever again. I can make you one up if your interested. They are very easy to fit, how good are you with a soldering iron??

V tempting to take you up on the offer of using pure silver cable on my stock techie arm. I have the MK5g with the improved wire as standard and as well as not having the funds just at the mo, I dont know if I could be asked with pulling everything up if you know what I mean :scratch:

REXTON
15-08-2011, 13:00
No worries mate, its all in your own time!

kcc123
16-08-2011, 23:51
Its the IeGo plugs ive been looking at funnily enough. Bloody good price compared with inferior constructed Wattgates

I have been using IeGO pure silver wires, plugs and sockets for many years with great satisfaction, highly recommended!

IeGo pure silver cables for speaker connection
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/CD118.jpg

IeGo pure silver power plugs
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/LP191.jpg

IeGo pure silver IEC socket
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/IeGosilverIECsocket.jpg

IeGo pure silver wires for the power cable
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/LP192.jpg

worrasf
17-08-2011, 18:22
I have tried many of them, the best mains lead I have ever heard and used has rhodium connectors and plugs on so at the moment I am a fan of that until something better comes along, Marco will agree 100% with me on that score.:)

I note that this thread was originally about external PSU's for the Technics but seems to have gone off topic a bit with a discussion on mains cables - anyhow that's what I want to pose a question on so if this is seen to be inappropriate maybe Marco will move it into the Blank Canvas ;)

Now then, I can buy into the "quality" of the mains supply being of fundamental importance and to this end I have installed a fully balanced mains supply to my systems and can attest to the significant improvement it has made in all areas but particularly with respect to lower noise, more detail and clarity. I can understand that I need the best possible conductor-conductor interface where (for example) the power plug goes into the BMS outlet socket or for that matter wherever a cable interfaces with a plug or socket to minimise voltage drops - especially in low voltage circuits. But what I can't get my mind around is how changing the final 1m (say) of cable that has come all the way from the power station down the national grid and been "interfered with" on it's journey from substations/transformers various into my house then (in my case) down the heavy gauge twin and earth cable from the BMS transformer to the wall sockets can make any appreciable difference to the quality (emphasis on quality) of the electricity going into my kit. I can also understand the benefits of shielding against stray EM interference. I can understand that different conductors have different characteristics and can change the sound accordingly but surely that's analogous to "tuning" or "shaping" sound (a bit but not strictly the same as tube rolling does) and the resultant will appeal to some not others - there being no fundamental "best" in this area of tonal subjective preference. So when I look at the numbers after the sign being asked for some of these mains cables I just can't see the justification when folk comment that this cable is "better than this one" or that this cable is "the best" :scratch:

Now, I reiterate the title - I am absolutely not being confrontational or judgemental but I would really like someone to give me a scientific (or at least quasi objective) reason why the terminal 1m of cable can command such (IMHO) ludicrous prices :mental:

Steve

REXTON
17-08-2011, 19:57
I note that this thread was originally about external PSU's for the Technics but seems to have gone off topic a bit with a discussion on mains cables - anyhow that's what I want to pose a question on so if this is seen to be inappropriate maybe Marco will move it into the Blank Canvas ;)

Now then, I can buy into the "quality" of the mains supply being of fundamental importance and to this end I have installed a fully balanced mains supply to my systems and can attest to the significant improvement it has made in all areas but particularly with respect to lower noise, more detail and clarity. I can understand that I need the best possible conductor-conductor interface where (for example) the power plug goes into the BMS outlet socket or for that matter wherever a cable interfaces with a plug or socket to minimise voltage drops - especially in low voltage circuits. But what I can't get my mind around is how changing the final 1m (say) of cable that has come all the way from the power station down the national grid and been "interfered with" on it's journey from substations/transformers various into my house then (in my case) down the heavy gauge twin and earth cable from the BMS transformer to the wall sockets can make any appreciable difference to the quality (emphasis on quality) of the electricity going into my kit. I can also understand the benefits of shielding against stray EM interference. I can understand that different conductors have different characteristics and can change the sound accordingly but surely that's analogous to "tuning" or "shaping" sound (a bit but not strictly the same as tube rolling does) and the resultant will appeal to some not others - there being no fundamental "best" in this area of tonal subjective preference. So when I look at the numbers after the sign being asked for some of these mains cables I just can't see the justification when folk comment that this cable is "better than this one" or that this cable is "the best" :scratch:

Now, I reiterate the title - I am absolutely not being confrontational or judgemental but I would really like someone to give me a scientific (or at least quasi objective) reason why the terminal 1m of cable can command such (IMHO) ludicrous prices :mental:

Steve

Steve,

RANT ON

Just a few comments. I used to subscribe to the idea that paying 's would give the best results. This is of course pure Bull$hit. I simply look at the science and try and interprept in such a way that its kind to my wallet and more importantly beneficial to my 1210. Some of these cables cost 's because they use "the best" components available. Take furutech for example. I seriously do not think that a set of carbon fibre furutech XLR male/female connectors will work any better than the 3 quid silver plated aluminium based ones available from Maplins. The Maplins XLR's give me everything I need, silver coated connection, aluminium to give some RF/EM interference protection and a little mechanical / vibration protection. My cables are (admittedly) ONHO 6N pure silver, currently the most pure you can buy which are housed in teflon dialetic. Its not expensive if you know where to look. :eyebrows:


I hand clean and deoxidise each solid core before soldering. Each IC is then housed in a copper and aluminium braided sheath to further protect againsy RFI and EMI. Job done, cost? Try less than 30 for a pair of balanced IC's with the same components as balanced IC's costing several thousand 's. I can't prove that these are any better than other cables out there but thats not what it's about. I gained enjoyment from sourcing the components and building the IC's, and they make my system sound better.

One last word about being able to prove the validity of one cable being better than another. Well, it simply will never happen. To get meaningful results in any experiment you need replicatable variables. We all have differing systems (just check our signatures) meaning what happens in one system will vary from another. This is the concept of infinite variability!! Common sense should surely prevail. Isotek charge (i think) 900 for a DC mains blocker. Circuit diagrams to produce such a cable are available free on the net :eyebrows: I bought some 2nd hand ferrite cores for 25 (24 in total) and installed them on my various current cables and can see a subtle improvement in clarity and microdetail. I've tried cables costing 1000's claiming to do the same thing but did bugger all. In a nutshell buy the best quality components you can find on the net and make your own!!! :cool:

RANT OFF

MCRU
24-08-2011, 16:28
1m of cable can command such (IMHO) ludicrous prices

It's only ludicrous if it does not do what you expect, if it does then it's good value I would say?

Some people are happy with a metre of belden or lapp cable and brass plugs and iec's on either end, others want more.

I have visited many houses whilst selling mains leads as the owners take delight in showing off their systems and I commend that, I actually enjoy listening to other people's systems immensely, it has been a rarity so far not hearing an improvement when I plug my cables in, of course I always find out what is in place currently before I go along with my offerings.

The subject of the last metre of cable from the wall will still be debated long after we are all gone but I think mobile phones, wall warts and wi-fi are the 3 mains culprits. No one has been able to actually prove why changing a bit of wire makes the system sound better, Furutech have a few good papers on their site about purity of wire etc, etc and I firmly believe that is part of the explanation.

REXTON
24-08-2011, 18:19
I'm a great fan of Colin Chapman with the idea of making things as light and simple as possible. I've taken a similar philosophy with cables. Everything that needs to be unplugged and removed from my rack is. Anything that can be hard wired (phonostage, TimeStep HE etc) will be so that the IEC outlet is removed. When the time comes I'll have a seperate rack with every plug hard wired into it so therefore removing the fuses. But like most things time and money held these things up. I must admit that I didnt think that my power cabling would look as weird or as wonderful as it does at the moment! :lol:

sonddek
28-08-2011, 07:48
No one has been able to actually prove why changing a bit of wire makes the system sound better...

...or even that it does sound better.

MartinT
28-08-2011, 08:00
...or even that it does sound better.

You have to prove that for yourself, no-one else can do it for you.

MCRU
28-08-2011, 11:21
...or even that it does sound better.

Like Martin says listen for yourself, hotly debated subjects like wanky wires (reading off an AOS members signature which I found amusing) will go on for decades until wireless mains supply becomes reality (it has been touted as possible) then I will probably be dead anyway so it won't matter to me, no doubt the quality of the mains supply will still be argued about even then...:)

Macca
28-08-2011, 11:37
The way things are going we won't be able to afford to use electricity in the future anyway so the quality of the supply will become an irrelevance :lol:

CableMaker1
29-08-2011, 23:16
Like Martin says listen for yourself, hotly debated subjects like wanky wires (reading off an AOS members signature which I found amusing) will go on for decades until wireless mains supply becomes reality (it has been touted as possible) then I will probably be dead anyway so it won't matter to me, no doubt the quality of the mains supply will still be argued about even then...:)

It would be interesting to know who that forum member is. I have never encountered an analogue wireless signal sounding as good as a medium or high end wired signal.

woodchamber
12-09-2011, 08:17
After my seach there are quite a few PSU's for the Technics, but what would be a good recommation price/value wise?
The price range i found so far is from 170 to +500...

MCRU
12-09-2011, 08:19
Correction 100 (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/333-mains-cables-r-us-dc-power-supply.html) to 500+

woodchamber
12-09-2011, 08:25
Correction 100 (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/333-mains-cables-r-us-dc-power-supply.html) to 500+

Sorry :doh:

MCRU
12-09-2011, 08:43
Sorry :doh:

No problem as not many people know at the moment that I have a 100 PSU for the Technics, it is a good replacement for the stock PSU as it is widely known removing it brings instant sonic benefits.