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Historicus
24-10-2008, 09:40
I own a Sony SCD777ES SACD that could never beat my analogue equipement. The up to 20.000 Hz cut of the cds practically eliminates the balance of sound, the timbre of instruments, etc that are present on analogue recordings. Cds sound to me as perfect snapshots of a part but the combined snapshots miss all the balance of the original sound. Other bad things happen with the lots of microphones used by modern sound engineers ...
Anyway, I have read that Marco tweaked his Sony X-777ES by the english company Audiocom that offers various upgrades with different prices. I would be interested in what you have done.
In Italy there is a company Audiocom owned by engineer Alberto Ingoglia that offers this upgrade to this player - in his opinion one of the best together with the SCD 1ES - but he suggested not to change the original clock because it is very good and the improvement by the change isn't so sure. On the other hand the output state final of the player. Here in italian what he offers: " riprogettazione dello stadio di uscita e la sua sostituzione con un circuito totalmente a discreti, senza controreazione, pensato proprio "ad hoc" (anche il livello di uscita rimane standard) con linee di amplificazione totalmente separate per le uscite bilanciate (optional per il 777) e sbilanciate. Anche l'alimentazione di tale nuovo stadio viene di fatto riprogettata (sullo stesso circuito originale) a MosFet senza controreazione per la stabilizzazione, così come l'alimentazione del convertitore (pure a MosFet). Il cablaggio è interamente in cavo argentato ad alto spessore isolato in teflon.
E' un lavoro di altissimo livello, unico nel suo genere, e le prestazioni sonore crescono in maniera vertiginosa, raggiungendo davvero livelli assoluti, magari potrebbe iniziare a riconsiderare il confronto con la sua catena analogica... ".
The price isn't exactly cheap (about 813 pounds) for all the upgrade.
Here are some picture of the upgraded SCD1ES http://www.aurionaudio.it/Galleria%20foto%201.htm if you, please, take a look at it.

Grazie, and sorry for the quoting in italian ...

Filterlab
24-10-2008, 10:02
Just to make it easier for our non-Italian speaking members, that quote as translated by Babelfish:


"Redesign of the output stage and its substitution with a circuit totally to discreet, without feedback, thought own " ad hoc " (also the level of escape remains standard) with lines of amplification totally separated for the escapes balanced (optional for the 777) and canted. Also such feeding of new stage comes of fact redesigned (on the same circuit originates them) to MosFet without feedback for the stabilization, thus like the feeding of the converter (also to MosFet). The wiring is entire in cable silverplated to high thickness isolated in teflon. A job of highest level, only in its kind, and the sonorous performances grow in breathtaking way, catching up indeed absolute levels, could even begin to reconsider the comparison with its analogic chain"

shane
24-10-2008, 10:50
Howcome Italian is so damn sexy, even when you know it's about something as unsexy as a DAC, and you don't understand a single syllable?

Filterlab
24-10-2008, 10:53
How come Italian is so damn sexy?...

Steady on, you'll get Marco all excited! :eyebrows:

Historicus
24-10-2008, 11:41
Filtertlab thanks for the translation.
Babelfish translates better from italian to english then the opposite! Anyway this time I couldn't laugh so much as after reading a translation in italian in a previous message about Denon DL103

Shane, britt' politicians could try to speak in italian to sugar the pill for the crowd. A sort of modern Monthy Pyton, that we italians simply adore!

Marco
24-10-2008, 13:12
Howcome Italian is so damn sexy, even when you know it's about something as unsexy as a DAC, and you don't understand a single syllable?

Hehe... We're just a damn sexy nation, mate, language and everything else :lol:

Before I got married you've no idea how 'handy' is was being able to speak in Italian to women ;)

Rob,

All I need to get 'excited', mate, is look at that picture of you with your keyboard. You is hot, baby! :eyebrows:

:lolsign:

Marco.

Historicus
24-10-2008, 13:20
All I need to get 'excited', mate, is look at that picture of you with your keyboard. You is hot, baby! :eyebrows:

:lolsign:

Marco.

Isn't it a guitar instead of a keyboard? A great phallic metaphor, indeed!

Ragazzi una doccia fredda!
A cold shower guys!

Marco
24-10-2008, 13:33
Haha... Indeed, Piero. No this is something different. I'm referring to a picture Rob knows about when he was young and, erm, 'gay'... ;)

Perhaps he'll post it again here and you'll see what I mean :eyebrows:

Marco.

Filterlab
24-10-2008, 14:04
Rob,

All I need to get 'excited', mate, is look at that picture of you with your keyboard. You is hot, baby! :eyebrows:

:lolsign:

Hehehehehe, damn right baby!

Here I am in all my young glory looking hot and hunky with my keyboard. Ooooh, the early 90s were great! I don't think Esther would agree with the 'gay' bit though, she has a different opinion! :lol:

http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/random_stuff/Me2-1.jpg

Marco
24-10-2008, 14:13
Hehe...

Piero, è proprio bello lui, da vero? :lolsign:

Marco.

Filterlab
24-10-2008, 14:16
Hehe...

Piero, è proprio bello lui, da vero? :lolsign:


Now don't start going all Scotch on us! :confused:

Historicus
24-10-2008, 16:00
A real Armani man!

But how to insert pictures here?

I posted one with the link to the URL but nothing appears in my message?


http://flickr.com/photos/historicus/378164775/in/set-72157608336891757/


Anyway I hope to receive Marco's answer on the german AAA-Forum it would be impossible to post so many off topics without getting banned, killed and soaped!

Filterlab
24-10-2008, 16:44
What image are you trying to display?

Historicus
24-10-2008, 17:04
a photo that I shot that is on flickr of an armani man in India

Filterlab
24-10-2008, 17:30
Weird one that, it won't display using the conventional tags for some reason, maybe there's a hotlink prohibitor on it. Even on Photobucket it wouldn't host in GIF format, I had to do a screen grab and save then upload to show it. I've hosted it for you anyway:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z121/Filterlab/armani.jpg

Audiocom AV
24-10-2008, 19:49
Anyway, I have read that Marco tweaked his Sony X-777ES by the english company Audiocom that offers various upgrades with different prices. I would be interested in what you have done.
In Italy there is a company Audiocom owned by engineer Alberto Ingoglia that offers this upgrade to this player - in his opinion one of the best together with the SCD 1ES - but he suggested not to change the original clock because it is very good and the improvement by the change isn't so sure. On the other hand the output state final of the player. Here in italian what he offers: "

Hello,

I am Mark Bartlett from Audiocom International (UK). The Sony SCD-777ES & Sony CDP-x777ES as you may be aware are very differently designed players. In my opinion, the x-777ES is far better engineered to play CD but the digital & analogue circuits have many weaknesses which we overcome with our modifications. The x-777ES uses a pair of the CXD2552Q DAC’s, with an active op-amp analogue stage (I/V, filter & buffer stages). A top feature with the x-777ES is the discrete regulation used for the digital & analogue circuits; most CD players even expensive ones use the 78xx & LM317 variety. The older DAC’s like the 2552 had poorer Power Supply Rejection Ratio (PSRR) around -60 to -70db compared to a modern DAC which can achieve -100db, so the low noise regulation enables the player to produce a more ‘analogue’ sound with less grain, compression than is generally heard from CD players. The clock in the x-77ES is a Pierce oscillator based on a 74HCU04 with a quartz crystal strapped across the input/output of one of the logic gates. Contrary to advise you have been given, this type of clock is not very good; it is jittery and has high phase noise, and the additional logic gates make this type of oscillator noisy. We replace this with Superclock 4-S which has very low jitter, fast rise time and high PSRR; and makes a significant improvement to sound quality. The CDX2552 DAC’s require current-to-voltage converters (I/V), this translates the current output from the DAC to voltage and is done actively with a pair of op-amps (AD712), we have found the LM4562 to give the optimum results for active I/V stages. Similarly, we have research the best solution for replacing the active filter & buffer stages; servo control, digital & analogue decoupling, input bypassing, etc. I also highly recommend the Bybee Quantum Purifiers which we use in our upgrades for AC, DC supplies & signal applications. With the Bybee Purifiers the audible gains are never a law of diminishing returns but rather continuous performance increases because although they work exceptionally well singularly or in pairs, when you use several you get a larger ‘collective’ affect. We can complete upgrades as I have listed here for GBP 530.00 inclusive with more comprehensive upgrades at a higher premium of GBP 800 – 900. The Sony CDP-x777ES once modified by Audiocom is capable of delivery a compelling musical, engaging sound, highly resolute, dynamic and free of the typical digital bugbears that distant it from a good vinyl source. If you have any questions please ask.

Best Regards,
Mark Bartlett

Historicus
24-10-2008, 20:39
I've hosted it for you anyway:


Yes, you're right I had an Ad remover software installed that censored even my posting. Anyway this picture, taken in India, remembers me such an Armani man from whom I spoke about before.


Mark (from Audiocom) thanks for your answer! I made a big confusion between the Sony models.
I own only the 35kg heavy SACD SCD-777ES and the upgrade by the italians was referred only to this player and not (Marco's) CDP-x777ES, so can I ask you now if you have any upgrade for this model and, above all, if it is worth to upgrade it?
Regards, Piero

Audiocom AV
25-10-2008, 09:56
Mark (from Audiocom) thanks for your answer! I made a big confusion between the Sony models.
I own only the 35kg heavy SACD SCD-777ES and the upgrade by the italians was referred only to this player and not (Marco's) CDP-x777ES, so can I ask you now if you have any upgrade for this model and, above all, if it is worth to upgrade it?
Regards, Piero

Hello Piero

OK, for the Sony SCD-777ES please take a look at available upgrade options from our website;
http://www.audiocom-uk.com/mod_inner.asp?id=33

We have been upgrading the Sony SCD-1 & SCD-777ES since 1999/2000 and our latest modifications give the very best sound. The principle ideas behind the SCD-777ES are lowering jitter by upgraded the factory clock, adding a dedicated clock power supply, replacing multiple 78xx/79xx regulators on the audio board, upgrading I/V & filter op-amps, bypassing & decoupling capacitor upgrades, installing Bybee Quantum Purifiers. The level-2 upgrade gives the optimum balance between cost and performance, the high level-3 is worth the additional investment if you want to hear Sony’s Flagship SACD player deliver its best.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Best Regards,
Mark Bartlett

Historicus
25-10-2008, 10:24
Grazie Mark sounds good. I found an elder review of your superclock on the italian web magazine TNT. http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/sclock_e.html
May I ask if you upgrade even the output stage of this player on level 2 that is one of his known weakness?

Is it, at last, possible to add a firewire exit to this player that could be recognized from some software, so it could be possible to play wav files? At the Roman High End this year I saw the Jakob Ludvig DAC that converted from cd or a MAC through a firewire port. Sound was excellent from both sources (the Spectral SDR4000Pro against the WAV File). After the use of their audio software the wav file sounded even better) Cost today of this DAC 30.000 Eur (!!!), the Spectral cost a little less .... but in about 5 years it will cost less then 1000 Eur because it's the future of hi-fi market. http://www.tangerinetech.net/

Saluti Piero

PS Marco and your comments after upgrading your player. I would know your opinion referred to the analogue part of your equipement. Can the cd anyway compete with them?

Audiocom AV
25-10-2008, 12:23
Hello Piero

The TNT review was of the orginal Superclock version 1, the Superclock is now on version 4, Superclock 4-S; 4 generations of continued research & design. We do upgrade the analogue output stage, the current-to-voltage converters & filter active stages are upgraded; I also reccomend a pair of Bybee Slipstream purifiers for the +/- analogue supplies, this is in additional to the level-2 priced adding an extra GBP 141.00 to the price. The analogue output stage is a weak area in the 777ES but far less an offender than the clock oscillator and 7807/7907 which supply the DAC’s.

We do not have Firewire upgrades available for CD players.

Best Regards,
Mark Bartlett

Historicus
25-10-2008, 15:20
Hello Mark,
your upgrades seems much more studied (I mean they have an history!) then the late comers in this sector of the market)
Referred to my player the main problems are shipping the heavy equipment from Italia to Britannia with all risks and costs.
Isn't it possible to do an upgrade by ourselves, a sort of upgrade-kit, as Audionote does with their products? I suppose that the answer will be "no" because it's not possible to find the necessary know-how in an average hi-fi technician.
Kind regards,
Piero

Audiocom AV
26-10-2008, 09:12
Hello Mark,
your upgrades seems much more studied (I mean they have an history!) then the late comers in this sector of the market)
Referred to my player the main problems are shipping the heavy equipment from Italia to Britannia with all risks and costs.
Isn't it possible to do an upgrade by ourselves, a sort of upgrade-kit, as Audionote does with their products? I suppose that the answer will be "no" because it's not possible to find the necessary know-how in an average hi-fi technician.
Kind regards,
Piero

Hello Piero

There is a company in Italy who have started to use our products and modify equipment like the Sony SCD-1 and Electrocompaniet EMC-1. I have contacted the owner reagrding your enquiry and I am waiting on a reply. This is a new company to us so I do not have any history with there upgrades, services and after sales support. A modification for the SCD-777ES does require a high skill level and I would want to ensure a high standard and professional install can be made before endorsing another company. I appreciate that shipping does involve risk, but we have taken in several Sony SCD-777ES over the years from various parts of Europe and never had any problems. We have a customer from Germany who has shipped his Sony SCD-1 on three seperate occasions for custom upgrades. We can supply certain parts of the upgrade for DIY install such as clock, clock power supply, regulators, Bybee Purifiers. Several years ago we sold comprehensive kits for the Sony SCD-1 with instructions but our approach has changed and we discount the parts for an upgrade package and add a labour charge so the end cost it closer to the DIY price.

Best Regards,
Mark Bartlett

Historicus
26-10-2008, 13:12
Hello Mark, I think that the best would be if we have private mail contacts because I suppose not everyone here is interested in Audiocom upgrades from Italy.
kind regards,
Piero

Marco
26-10-2008, 13:16
On the contrary, Piero. That is what this section of the forum is about. It means that useful information exchanged is available to any members interested. However, if you wish to conduct your business privately, that's entirely your choice :)

Marco.

Rare Bird
05-12-2008, 06:59
To Mark Barklett

I'm presently using a Sony XB-930E-UK Spec fixed mech till i get unought money together to buy a Snoy SCD-1 machine.I'm actually very happy with the 930 sound even though it's obviously mid-market machine....

The SCD-1 is a truly beautiful machine if not the best looking high end machine this decade.I understand your mods & wanting to promote them, this aside whats your views between the two machines minus SACD?. Please be open as i don't intend spending money on Audiocom upgrades.Please note i have no intentions about playing SACD discs.

Steve Toy
06-12-2008, 04:49
Mark,

I think RB means to ask what you think of these players in standard form.

Audiocom AV
06-12-2008, 13:18
Hello Rare Bird,

I have upgraded many Sony SCD-777ES/SCD-1 units and they fair very well on CD playback when modified. My opinion when combining CD with SACD is that the ultimate performance of CD is compromised, whether it be because of the more complex analogue filtering used for SACD (as per SCD-1), or the front end digital signal processing. I have always found that a ‘CD only’ player does CD better. The best option with the SCD-1/777ES is to modify it as ‘transport only’ and add an external DAC like the Benchmark DAC1, this combination has very good synergy.

Best Regards,
Mark Bartlett

(Thanks Steve!)

Historicus
23-12-2008, 20:05
Hi, I just want to ask if you transform the SCD-1 & SCD-777ES as transport only with an external DAC would it be still possible to hear SACDs bypassing the DAC?

Thanks a lot for your answer!

Audiocom AV
24-12-2008, 10:16
Hi, I just want to ask if you transform the SCD-1 & SCD-777ES as transport only with an external DAC would it be still possible to hear SACDs bypassing the DAC?

Thanks a lot for your answer!

Hello

If we upgrade the SCD-1 & SCD-777ES as a transport only you can still use the analogue outputs for CD & SACD. Although the focus of the upgrades is on the 'transport' section of the player (digital), the benefits of this (new clock, Bybee purifiers, etc) will be heard when using the players internal DAC's for listening to CD & SACD.

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

Historicus
24-12-2008, 13:02
Hello Mark, thanks for your kind reply, but can't I simply use my SCD-777ES/SCD-1 as transport combined with a DAC through the existing digital output with a good digital cable without any tweak on the player? Certainly the SCD-777ES/SCD-1 wouldn't have the benefits of a direct upgrade (to listen the SACD) but in this way it could be for me much easier.
Can you confirm me about the quality of the Benchmark DAC because some here in my country has some doubts on this product (maybe because Benchmark is a more computer involved company as actual hi-fi producers that, referred to their prices, change as Midas king in pure gold). Maybe I must listen to different DAC to find the right one on my gear. Here everyone prices the low costing Oppo players but, in reference to the original SCD-777ES/SCD-1 they don't sound as bad but even worse!

Merry Xmas,
Piero

Audiocom AV
24-12-2008, 15:00
Hello Mark, thanks for your kind reply, but can't I simply use my SCD-777ES/SCD-1 as transport combined with a DAC through the existing digital output with a good digital cable without any tweak on the player? Certainly the SCD-777ES/SCD-1 wouldn't have the benefits of a direct upgrade (to listen the SACD) but in this way it could be for me much easier.
Can you confirm me about the quality of the Benchmark DAC because some here in my country has some doubts on this product (maybe because Benchmark is a more computer involved company as actual hi-fi producers that, referred to their prices, change as Midas king in pure gold). Maybe I must listen to different DAC to find the right one on my gear. Here everyone prices the low costing Oppo players but, in reference to the original SCD-777ES/SCD-1 they don't sound as bad but even worse!

Merry Xmas,
Piero

Hi Piero

Absolutely, you do not have to modify the SCD-1/SCD-777ES to get better sound, adding the Benchmark DAC1 will do this. You will hear a substantial improvement in CD quality once you have added the DAC1. The Benchmark DAC1 is a truly excellent product, design, engineering and sound quality are first class.

The opinions of Hi-Fi are subjective, including my own. We do not sell the Benchmark DAC1 and you have an unbiased opinion based on listening to a wide range of audio products over several years. That said, the DAC1 is that good we may include it to our product range next year. The Oppo is a good product but not in the same class as the SCD-1/777ES + Benchmark DAC1.

Have a good Christmas

Best Wishes
Mark Bartlett

Historicus
25-12-2008, 21:50
Ciao Mark, thanks for your interesting note. I must simply hear Benchmark Dac 1 with my equipment! Even the new USB version (why not a firewire port?) sounds really cool and opens the widest musical perspectives. Bypassing the preamplifier is another incredible feature of DAC1 for a better sound.
I found lots of qualified reviews (TAS, Stereophile, etc.) on Benchmark's site that now I'm reading with lots of interest. I saw that you (Audiocom) proposes even upgrades on Dac1 to make it sound even better.
For many audiophiles that aren't so used to hear a jitter free sound they found that this converter hasn't a great presence and lacks on basses but I don't know how they are used to hear music.

I saw that a lot of people from GB bought from an ebay seller in Taiwan the very low priced (USD 180) DAC Valab NOS USB with 8 parallel TDA1543 - a good sounding Philips chip abandoned since years for the great jitter - (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290284943021&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR4 0%26_trksid%3Dm38.l1313%26_nkw%3D290284943021%2509 %26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1) as a sort of little provocation I ask here what do you think about it?