View Full Version : Hi res BBC3 proms
Excuse my ignorance but i want to watch the proms and take advantage of the bbc3 sound quality, I could link my pc using usb connection i have in my amp.
Its only a 16/44 dac though and im wondering if there is a better way. My other inputs are optical.
I read somewhere of using foobar but didnt understand the application.
amdismal
22-07-2011, 21:37
Excuse my ignorance but i want to watch the proms and take advantage of the bbc3 sound quality, I could link my pc using usb connection i have in my amp.
Its only a 16/44 dac though and im wondering if there is a better way. My other inputs are optical.
I read somewhere of using foobar but didnt understand the application.
16/44 exceeds the Radio 3 spec - they call it HD, but that means 320kbps AAC, not true HD. So you can just plug your PC into the DAC and it will be fine. Sounds nice too.
dave2010
23-07-2011, 08:07
16/44 exceeds the Radio 3 spec - they call it HD, but that means 320kbps AAC, not true HD. So you can just plug your PC into the DAC and it will be fine. Sounds nice too.
This isn't quite right, but pretty close. Technically aac can generate samples which are more than 16 bits, as can most of the lossy compression formats. Some people believe that the extra bits might make a difference.
The only way you can check this for yourself is to compare with a higher resolution DAC. Generally 16 bits should sound good, but there'd be little point in designers and suppliers point in making higher resolution devices if some people didn't think they are going to give better results.
Stratmangler
23-07-2011, 09:39
It's been possible to access the "HD" streams on R3 from a Squeezebox for ages, and yes, the sound is a considerable improvement over the standard stream.
I run my Squeezebox Touch using a seperate computer running Squeezebox Server.
I'm not sure if you can access the "HD" streams if you use the Touch as a standalone device.
Stratmangler
23-07-2011, 09:49
Excuse my ignorance but i want to watch the proms and take advantage of the bbc3 sound quality, I could link my pc using usb connection i have in my amp.
Its only a 16/44 dac though and im wondering if there is a better way. My other inputs are optical.
I read somewhere of using foobar but didnt understand the application.
To get back on topic - you'd be likely to suffer synchronization issues if you stream your audio in from another source, and I can imagine nothing more frustrating that watching the band start off and the sound of that arriving 3 or 4 seconds later.
What TV are you using ?
Does it have an optical output for connecting to an external HTR/DAC ?
dave2010
23-07-2011, 15:13
It's been possible to access the "HD" streams on R3 from a Squeezebox for ages, and yes, the sound is a considerable improvement over the standard stream.
I run my Squeezebox Touch using a seperate computer running Squeezebox Server.
I'm not sure if you can access the "HD" streams if you use the Touch as a standalone device.Chris
Can you or some others around here suggest or write a short "idiot's guide" to using the BBC R3 HD with a Squeezebox. I only have the Classic SB3 model, so I guess I'd have to have a computer (could be my iMac) running as a server.
I should be able to figure this out myself, but if others have tips already, it might save some time.
Stratmangler
23-07-2011, 16:51
Chris
Can you or some others around here suggest or write a short "idiot's guide" to using the BBC R3 HD with a Squeezebox. I only have the Classic SB3 model, so I guess I'd have to have a computer (could be my iMac) running as a server.
I should be able to figure this out myself, but if others have tips already, it might save some time.
In your case it's simple - upgrade SBS to the latest version, and after do that all you need to do is navigate to it either with the remote control the web interface or a Smartphone if you've got Squeeze Commander installed.
It's under the BBC iPlayer heading.
SBS is currently up to 7.5.5
amdismal
23-07-2011, 21:26
To add to the above:
1 - Yes you do need to have a server running - I don't think the BBC is available from MySB for the SB3.
2 - You need to have the "BBC iPlayer" plugin installed. To do this, go to Server Settings > Plugins and have a look for it - probably under "recommended 3rd party plugins". Tick it and Apply at the bottom. SBS should ask to restart; when it does, BBC iPlayer should be in the "Internet Radio" section. Radio 3 HD is in the Listen Live bit.
Im running iplayer from my laptop to the dac using usb. Dont have a optical out only inputs on the amp/dac. Couldnt listen to rite of spring tonight, didnt sync.
Im not sure what you mean as server .
Stratmangler
23-07-2011, 22:27
Im running iplayer from my laptop to the dac using usb. Dont have a optical out only inputs on the amp/dac. Couldnt listen to rite of spring tonight, didnt sync.
Im not sure what you mean as server .
Only relevant to a Squeezebox user.
Will it be higher res through foobar??
Stratmangler
23-07-2011, 22:37
Will it be higher res through foobar??
No.
The Radio 3 HD stream is here, if you don't want to access it by clicking the HD button on the webpage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls
320 kb/s AAC
Cut and paste the link into any player that will handle an AAC Stream.
Foobar, VLC, Songbird . . . even iTunes.
You will find it already listed in iTunes as BBC Radio 3 (High)
I listen on my Squeezebox Classic using Triode's iPlayer Plugin.
If for any reason you can't get that the WMA stream at 192kb/s is nearly as good
http://bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3.asx
dave2010
26-07-2011, 10:09
Finally got the R3 HD stream going using my iMac and SB3 Squeezebox. I also tried to get Spotify working, and since I failed at both I wrote to Triode - the author of the plugin for both the iPlayer and Spotify - and his reply prompted me to check everything more carefully, and I now have the BBC R3 HD channel working.
For the BBC HD - this appears under Internet Radio ->BBC iPlayer -> Listen Live -> BBC Radio 3 HD
The originally installed Logitech access to BBC stations is still under My Apps - and is unaffected AFAIK. This might be confusing - as it was to me. It is probably still useful for when the server is not running on my iMac, allowing a connection to the mysqueezebox.com site.
Re Spotify, there is a component called spotifyd which needs to be given access via the iMac firewall. In my case to get Spotify to work I had to reboot my system - which happened this morning at startup. Trying to configure Spotify without a full system reboot caused the plugin to disappear altogether. Once that is done, the plugin settings need to be accessed again from the Preferences panel in order to enter your Spotify username and password.
Once done, Spotify appears under My Apps.
This is only necessary for a few Squeezebox models. The Radio and Touch models can use the Spotify app from Logitech. If you don't have a Radio or Touch model, then at present it's probably best to go straight to triode's plugin. Some people report that attempting to install Logitech's first, then triode's, may give problems, and the suggestion is then to delete the Logitech one. More likely is that users don't notice which version is installed.
The sound quality of the R3 HD stream does seem to be much more transparent.
dave2010
27-07-2011, 10:18
According to Triode re the location of BBCiPlayer in the Squeezebox menus, if you upgrade to 7.6 then the plugin does appear under My Apps. It was not possible to do this in 7.5.
dave2010
29-07-2011, 22:35
Anyone here succeeded in recording from the HD streams yet? I know it can be done, but not figured it all out yet.
Stratmangler
29-07-2011, 22:37
Anyone here succeeded in recording from the HD streams yet? I know it can be done, but not figured it all out yet.
Yep :)
If it can be played through a sound card it can be captured.
dave2010
30-07-2011, 05:44
Could use software from Appian Technologies apparently, or HiDownload Platinum Edition which offers a free trial for a while. There may be free software which will capture the streams, but don't know much about that.
Anyone here succeeded in recording from the HD streams yet? I know it can be done, but not figured it all out yet.
Here is a relatively simple digital recording method that uses free software.
VLC Media Player
If you do not have a copy download from here
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/#download
The process is entirely automatic.
1. Start VLC.
It will probably start after installation.
2. From "Media" menu select "Convert/Save"
3. Click on "Network" Tab and copy the BBC R3 URL
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls
into the "Network URL" field. Then click on "Convert/Save" button at bottom.
You have now chosen the source of the recording, you must now specify the place to store it.
4. You now have a "Convert" dialog box with BBC3 URL in "source" field. Enter a file name with directory (e.g. "C:\BBC\SatConcert.flac") into the "Destination file" field.
More expert computer users will need no more instruction than above; but to expand. You now need to give the VLC Player a place to store the recorded music, and to give this recording a name.
In the "Convert" Pane that is now open, to the right of the "Destination" box, click "Browse". On the left scroll down till you see "Computer". Supposing you have only one Hard Disc click "Local Disc C". Click the RIGHT mouse button in the right side of the open window. You will now be offered options. Click "New" and then "Folder". Give the folder a name by typing in the highlighted box, and LEFT click on the box. Keep it simple. Maybe "BBC"? You now have a new folder on your hard drive (C:\BBC\) for storing your recorded radio programmes. This will serve for all future recordings.
Now your must give your first recording a name. Just below where you have made your new folder you will see a box called "File Name". Type in a unique name for the file you are about to record. eg Concert1.flac, BachPno.flac SatPM.flac Notice they MUST all end dot flac (.flac)
In future you may chose not to use the "Browse" button, but just type in the FULL name for a new recording
e.g. C:\BBC\WaterMus.flac , C:\BBC\SunJazz.flac C:\BBC\RecordReview11_06_11.flac
5. In "Settings" and "Profile" select "Audio - Flac" and also check the "Deinterlace" box. Then click "Start"
You have chosen a recording source, the BBC R3 HD stream off the Network; you have chosen a place to put the recording, and you have chosen a format in which to store it. The source started as a stream in high quality AAC format, which is a "lossy" format for efficient transmission over the internet. Now you want to store it without further lossy compression. You could store it as an uncompressed WAW file and the advanced features of the VLC player allow that, but FLAC is fine. It will store the recording without further loss and do it in half the space.
6. VLC screen will appear and no music will be played just the elapsed time incrementing if stream is converted.
7. Click stop button to stop conversion (recording).
To play your recording go to the "Media" tab on the VLC player and chose "Open File". If you do not see the file you have just recorded on the right use the left of the pane to go to "Computer/Local Drive C:/BBC" or whatever path (address) you chose earlier.
Click the file and it will play.
I have just tried all this, connected my laptop to my DAC by USB and the recording sounded very fine.
I am assured this recoding method does not modify the bitream in any way - what goes into the recording comes out.
If further help is needed post on this thread.
Please remember the Radio 3 HD stream accessed using the URL in this post is "experimental" and may come and go.
Acknowledgement: With many thanks to BPA on the Squeezebox Forum. His instructions to me are in bold.
camtwister
30-07-2011, 09:40
Brian - this is a very helpful post, thank you.
For those unfamiliar with the French not-for-profit VideoLAN Organization: they offer a powerful encoder and streamer amongst other software, called the VPL Player, which is open source and licensed under GNU GPL v.2. Thus it gets this from me: :thumbsup:
I advise that you tread carefully when discussing some potential applications of the application (poor pun intended) on a public forum such as this.
You'll want the full-fat version of the player, which is now v1.1.11.
Brian's link sent me to the Lite version (which may be territory dependent) but you can choose installer packages here:
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/#download
Have fun.
technobear
30-07-2011, 10:04
The best way to enjoy high quality sound from TV is to connect the optical digital output of your TV or Video Recorder to a suitable DAC.
Note that TV sound is 24 bit and 48k samples per second. If your DAC will only handle 44.1k samples per second then it will not handle the signal from a TV.
Next best option is to connect the left and right audio outputs of your TV or Video Recorder to your amplifier.
If even that isn't available, you can try the TV headphone output straight into your amplifier.
Failing that, all bets are off.
Simulcasting of radio and TV was possible in the days of analogue broadcasts because the time from transmission to speaker was fixed and equal. With digital broadcasting and the need for decoding and processing, this is no longer the case. If we introduce streaming over the internet this makes it worse still.
You'll want the full-fat version of the player, which is now v1.1.11.
I have edited my link. I did have the full version installed.
I know the VLC player will do a fantastic range of things, almost all of which I have not tried, and would not know where to begin.
Recording an internet radio stream for personal use is relatively easy, and no different in principle to making a tape recording from an FM tuner output, which we have all done for years.
UK law is less explicit in this area than equivalent legislation elsewhere.
Hi Brian,
One more post until you reach your 1000th, so make it a good 'un! ;)
Marco.
Hi Brian,
One more post until you reach your 1000th, so make it a good 'un! ;)
Marco.
I wish I had not sold my Tannoy 10" DCs 22 years ago.
Ha - well, they'd certainly be better than a pair of ADM9s! :eyebrows:
You'll be wanting a nice valve amp next ;)
Marco.
You'll be wanting a nice valve amp next ;)
To warm my feet with the Therms or my ears with the even order harmonic distortion?
I have been looking at the Croft Hybrids.
Shall we stop there? :)
Lol... At least your taste in speakers is decent! ;)
So why the harking after your old Tannoys?
Marco.
So why the harking after your old Tannoys?
I always liked them, but even my big Quarts were easier to place and to move - and I was in the Army.
They made active sisters
http://www.hifi-wiki.de/index.php/MB_Quart_985_S_Aktiv
which I didn't buy. They would have been irreparable by now, but the passive 980s I still have.
Aren't we off thread?
Lol - yes, but don't blame me. It was your post #25 which started it ;)
Marco.
dave2010
31-07-2011, 03:28
UK law is less explicit in this area than equivalent legislation elsewhere.This could be because of a principle: "you are allowed to do anything which isn't explicitly denied"' (my words)' which apparently differs from other jurisdictions which operate on a permissive principle. Thus the USA often legislates to make it possible to do something, such as to rip CDs to computer, iPods etc. The UK doesn't bother as you can do it anyway until the law decides that you can't.
Having said that, recent amendments to UK copyright legislation have now made ripping for use on iPods legal (explicitly).
Where things get interesting is if restrictive legislation is attempted. For example, if the BBC decided to prosecute home recording enthusiasts and won (now unlkely - for personal users), this would set a precedent and Case Law would then apply for future home recordings. Another way that the law could change would be by explicit Act of Parliament.
The recent case between BT and MPA is slightly interesting - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14322957 because although it went against BT it does set a precedent in which organisations which wish to block web sites have to do so by court order. They do not get an automatic right to request that ISPs block links.
Re home recording, if you make a recording, then try to sell copies in the market or at car boot sales, there is legislation to invoke penalties against that.
I am not a lawyer or legal expert. I am only passing on what I have read, so I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong in this.
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