View Full Version : Hi-Fi Choice mag to vanish?
Hi Griffo,
I get the 'pouring over pictures of expensive kit' thing, even though it isn't my bag, but why would any sane person buy hi-fi equipment as a "status symbol"? :scratch:
It's simply a tool with which to enjoy your favourite music - no more....!
And most of the 'hi-fi jewellery' one reads about, in the likes of Plush, is completely unknown to the general public, so flaunting your new Continuum turntable or Magico speakers, to Betty and Bobby, next door, is not likely to achieve much more than being faced with their bewiderment! Perhaps if it were a new Bose or B&O system, it might be different? ;)
I would never buy any expensive luxury item (and I own quite a few things which qualify as such) for it to be a "status symbol"; I'd buy it purely and simply because I loved its looks, build quality, and/or its functionality, or whatever. I wouldn't give a flying feck what folk thought of me for owning it, and what "status" I had, as a result!
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who buys luxury goods (hi-fi equipment or otherwise) as a "status symbol", to show off, displays significant social inadequacies and a major insecurity complex, as well as being a detestable snob!! :rolleyes:
Marco.
griffo104
11-08-2011, 14:08
Hi Griffo,
I get the 'pouring over pictures of expensive kit' thing, even though it isn't my bag, but why would any sane person buy hi-fi equipment as a "status symbol"? :scratch:
It's simply a tool with which to enjoy your favourite music - no more.... And most of the 'hi-fi jewellery' one reads about, in the likes of Plush, is completely unknown by the general public, so flaunting your new Continuum turntable or Magico speakers, to Bobby next door is not likely to achieve much other than be faced with his bewiderment! Perhaps if it were a new Bose or B&O system, it might be different? ;)
I would never buy any luxury item (and I own quite a few things which qualify as such) for it to be a "status symbol"; I'd buy it purely and simply because I loved its looks, build quality, and/or its functionality, or whatever. I wouldn't give a flying feck what folk thought of me for owning it, and what "status" I had, as a result!
In short, I would only concern myself with what I thought of the item(s) concerned - whatever other people thought would be of zero importance.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who buys luxury goods (hi-fi equipment or otherwise) as "status symbol", to show off, displays significant social inadequacies and a major insecurity complex, as well as being a detestable snob!! :rolleyes:
Marco.
I wouldn't argue with you at all on anything you've said there but sadly it does happen.
there are three incidents that spring to mind.
1. A friend of mine spent a small fortune on hifi and yet has a collection of music that barely hits double figures, he just wanted something expensive - simple as but he's wants something that the hifi fraternity will know, who wants a B&O much better to have something so much more expensive when they have to admit they've never heard of it.
2. Another friend who's in to his watches looks down his nose at my Seiko sub, a great affordable automatic that keeps great time, but it hasn't got a Swiss made movement so must be rubbish.
3. I had a bake off last year, one of the guys coming over admitted he turned his nose up at the thought of listening to small speakers - as they can't do so much. He seemed to enjoy himself when he was there. His speakers cost 3 times what my car cost new.
It does happen. I think if you hang around hifi forums long enough you soon get to notice in a lot of cases the quieter rooms include the music room. There are people who I've known through forums for 5+ years and yet I've no idea what music they like or listen to. They will argue it's all about the music but why do they never want to talk about it ?
I think I'm similar to you, performance first and if you get it at a great price even better. Sadly I know a lot of people who need to tell me how much their latest stuff cost. Maybe I hang around with the wrong people :scratch:
hifi_dave
11-08-2011, 14:24
2. Another friend who's in to his watches looks down his nose at my Seiko sub, a great affordable automatic that keeps great time, but it hasn't got a Swiss made movement so must be rubbish.
I have a Rolex Submariner (now vintage), an Oris Titanium Diver's watch and a Seiko Submariner with the wizzy, re-chargeable battery, quartz drive gizmo movement.
The nicest and most accurate of the three is the Seiko, followed closely by the Oris and trailing a long way behind is the Rolex. Needless to say, the Seiko is by far the cheapest..:scratch:
Anyway, true afficianados would say that they are all cheap crap and you should have a Patek or Breitling or something..:rolleyes:
Hi Griffo,
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who buys luxury goods ... as a "status symbol", to show off, displays significant social inadequacies and a major insecurity complex, as well as being a detestable snob!! :rolleyes:
Marco.
Are we talking about 'designer' bog roll still? :lol:
"who wants a B&O much better to have something so much more expensive when they have to admit they've never heard of it".
But aren't B&O and Bose the best hifi in the world? That's what a work mate said to me some years ago. Great advertising and marketing brainwashes :eyebrows:
griffo104
11-08-2011, 15:07
"who wants a B&O much better to have something so much more expensive when they have to admit they've never heard of it".
But aren't B&O and Bose the best hifi in the world? That's what a work mate said to me some years ago. Great advertising and marketing brainwashes :eyebrows:
There are those driven by the brand and will buy something that most perceive as the best/expensive. there are then those that want to have something more expensive that their clique haven't heard of. almost like enjoying the fact that their peers haven't heard of it, and then of course if you have to ask how much...
Everyone knows about rolex due to the branding but as hifi Dave mentions there are better watches at less on brands not actually perceived as the same league as Rolex and then you have the Pateks which are way above them but not everyone knows about them. All down to branding and perception.
As an enthusiast of hifi I know of brands such as Dartzeel for example but the bloke next to me who bought his B&O has no clue, this applies to your peers who think the B&O is the dogs wotsits but won't raise a smile at the Dartzeel and there are those who know of another brand giving 90% of the Dartzeels performance at a quarter of it's cost.
Enthusiasts know these details the man on the street is oblivious to them.
It's another reason why hifi is no longer regarded as an aspirational purchase like it was back in the 70's. the branding wins over the better quality gear.
Hi-fi World has been doing articles on vintage gear for almost 20 years, I guess you never read it?
That should verify a real commitment to promoting vintage hifi.
Maybe I hang around with the wrong people :scratch:
Lol - far be it for me to tell you who your friends should be, but you might be right! ;)
There are those driven by the brand and will buy something that most perceive as the best/expensive.
For me, that is a total nonsense and completely alien to my way of thinking.
No offence intended, but people who behave as you describe do so because they're not really comfortable with who they are or what they've got, so they need to surround themselves with expensive possessions in order to feel better about themselves, and more importantly, inflate their "social status" in the eyes of their peers - all rather sad! :rolleyes:
We own original paintings by some very well-known artists and various antiques which are worth many times what my hi-fi system cost, and other bits and bobs, but most of it isn't even displayed, as we have no need to 'show it off'. We live in a nice old lodge house, with no mortgage, which is full of character, but it doesn't look in any way ostentatious.
I drive around in an old Mercedes, even when I could go out and buy a brand new one, simply because I like the way mine is built inside, and how it drives, compared to the latest models, and the fact that it's long since bought and paid for, when of course a new one would look much better sat on our driveway... And my wife drives a Morris Minor Traveller - again, not because she couldn't afford something 'better'...
When you're comfortable with your existence and are happy with your lot in life, quite simply, you don't need to show off your 'social status'; in fact, where I come from, it is frowned upon and considered as rather vulgar!
Marco.
griffo104
11-08-2011, 16:31
When you're comfortable with your existence and are happy with your lot in life, quite simply, you don't need to show off your 'social status'; in fact, where I come from, it is frowned upon and considered as rather vulgar!
Marco.
completely agree. If you are ever down this neck of the woods I'll take you a drive to a very nice pub. Within minutes you'll see that parts of where I work/live don't quite frown up on it :lolsign:
Do they ever feature any vintage gear? :)
Not that I've ever seen, but there have been some great features including one about a company in New York setting up for LP production, having bought some second-hand record presses. The hoops they had to jump through to get good production quality made for some great reading.
griffo104
11-08-2011, 17:02
Not that I've ever seen, but there have been some great features including one about a company in New York setting up for LP production, having bought some second-hand record presses. The hoops they had to jump through to get good production quality made for some great reading.
Stereophile has reviewed vintage gear, pretty sure a couple of years ago they did several reviews.
Speaking of vintage a few years ago Art Dudley in his Stereophile column went to great detail on bringing a TD124 up to date, ESL 57's up to date and also did the same with a Quad amp.
In all cases he bought the kit of ebay or some other such thing and documented what he did in the process of reviewing the mods other's were making to bring these designs back to life.
It was excellent reading from one of the best commentators out there in the printed hifi world.
completely agree. If you are ever down this neck of the woods I'll take you a drive to a very nice pub. Within minutes you'll see that parts of where I work/live don't quite frown up on it :lolsign:
Sounds good, mate - as long as it's not full of 'key-jangler', social climber types! ;)
Marco.
Not that I've ever seen, but there have been some great features including one about a company in New York setting up for LP production, having bought some second-hand record presses. The hoops they had to jump through to get good production quality made for some great reading.
Now that's an article I would've loved reading! :)
Marco.
Sounds good, mate - as long as it's not full of 'key-jangler', social climber types! ;)
Wife swappers?
Stereophile has reviewed vintage gear, pretty sure a couple of years ago they did several reviews.
Speaking of vintage a few years ago Art Dudley in his Stereophile column went to great detail on bringing a TD124 up to date, ESL 57's up to date and also did the same with a Quad amp.
In all cases he bought the kit of ebay or some other such thing and documented what he did in the process of reviewing the mods other's were making to bring these designs back to life.
It was excellent reading from one of the best commentators out there in the printed hifi world.
I would be very interested in reading that article. Back issues of Stereophile in now available on line. Do you have the date, or number of that particular Stereophile issue containing Dudley's piece?
Thanks
When you're comfortable with your existence and are happy with your lot in life, quite simply, you don't need to show off your 'social status'; in fact, where I come from, it is frowned upon and considered as rather vulgar!
Marco.
My philosophy entirely! If you've got it - don't flaunt it.
Too many people are obsessed with Gaudy Trinkets, even if they cost the earth.
A trinket is a small showy ornament or something that is a mere trifle
Vulgar...simply vulgar.:lol:
Wife swappers?
I see you've been to the parties! :eyebrows:
Marco.
hifi_dave
11-08-2011, 21:58
I would be very interested in reading that article. Back issues of Stereophile in now available on line. Do you have the date, or number of that particular Stereophile issue containing Dudley's piece?
Thanks
I believe it was earlier this year.
He has also recently done a couple of Garrard 301 re-furb articles.
griffo104
12-08-2011, 10:49
I would be very interested in reading that article. Back issues of Stereophile in now available on line. Do you have the date, or number of that particular Stereophile issue containing Dudley's piece?
Thanks
Barry,
one of the TD124 articles: http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/508listen/index.html
and Garrard
http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-98
Beobloke
12-08-2011, 11:47
Perhaps if it were a new...B&O system, it might be different? ;)
Whilst I know what you mean, and this certainly isn't directed at you, Marco, I can't help chuckling sometimes at the audiophiles who instantly dismiss B&O as being a lifestyle trinket, whilst merrily ignoring they fact that they have made some superb equipment over the years. It is also often the case that the detractors have never actually heard any of the B&O equpipment they're slagging off, either....
Surely this is just a different type of snobbery in action?!
Whilst I know what you mean, and this certainly isn't directed at you, Marco, I can't help chuckling sometimes at the audiophiles who instantly dismiss B&O as being a lifestyle trinket, whilst merrily ignoring they fact that they have made some superb equipment over the years. It is also often the case that the detractors have never actually heard any of the B&O equpipment they're slagging off, either....
Surely this is just a different type of snobbery in action?!
:clap:
I think that last point is very valid Adam, and I'm certainly guilty of similar - I know I'm very guilty of poo-pooing iPod dock "hifi" systems, but to be honest, have never properly listened to one of the "decent" ones like the B&W Zeppelin or Arcam rCube - but they're lifestyle products, so they must be crap, mustn't they?
griffo104
12-08-2011, 12:59
Whilst I know what you mean, and this certainly isn't directed at you, Marco, I can't help chuckling sometimes at the audiophiles who instantly dismiss B&O as being a lifestyle trinket, whilst merrily ignoring they fact that they have made some superb equipment over the years. It is also often the case that the detractors have never actually heard any of the B&O equpipment they're slagging off, either....
Surely this is just a different type of snobbery in action?!
I've heard B&O many times. The Linn dealership I bought several bits from. In fact I originally went there to listen to a B&O system as at the time I never knew he had other hifi upstairs.
B&O are nice but sonically I never fealt they justified their but having said that I've looked at 2nd hand ones for a bedroom system.
This dealer told me that he never really had to demo B&O becuase epeople just came in said they wanted one, almost holding the money out to him.
Downstairs there was no listening room where the B&O stuff was and yet upstairs where the Linn, Pioneer, Denon, Arcam and Marantz stuff was, there was a very nice little listening room. This is the way I always thought it worked and why B&O get clumped with the lifestyle brigade.
Ironically it now an B&O only boutique in Leamington Spa and I don't think they sell any other hifi so just goes to show you where the business really was.
I'd always be happy with a B&O as a 2nd system but never as a first one as I still feel you can get better sound quality for less.
griffo104
12-08-2011, 13:01
:clap:
I think that last point is very valid Adam, and I'm certainly guilty of similar - I know I'm very guilty of poo-pooing iPod dock "hifi" systems, but to be honest, have never properly listened to one of the "decent" ones like the B&W Zeppelin or Arcam rCube - but they're lifestyle products, so they must be crap, mustn't they?
sorry to disagree here but the B&W Zeppelin is something you buy for your kids. It's really not hifi. It's something quite expensive aimed at a market who want a dock but feel buying something from a hifi company is going to be better. It's really not.
Whilst I know what you mean, and this certainly isn't directed at you, Marco, I can't help chuckling sometimes at the audiophiles who instantly dismiss B&O as being a lifestyle trinket, whilst merrily ignoring they fact that they have made some superb equipment over the years. It is also often the case that the detractors have never actually heard any of the B&O equpipment they're slagging off, either....
Surely this is just a different type of snobbery in action?!
Lol - well, it would've been, if that's the way I had meant it! ;)
What I meant was that the chavvy next door neighbours of your average badge-snob would more likely have heard of Bose or B&O, than Continuum or Magico.....
Therefore, if you're a shallow-minded idiot who equates 'social status' with the type of hi-fi gear you own, far better to 'show off' your new B&O system to Chantelle and Charlie next door, than some 'obscure' hi-end kit that they won't know!! :eyebrows:
It wasn't meant as a reflection on the quality (or otherwise) of B&O kit.
As for B&O, I like some of their vintage gear (some of which was groundbreaking in design), but so far I haven't heard any of their current stuff that I'd give house room.
Marco.
Beobloke
12-08-2011, 13:27
more likely have heard of Bose or B&O, than Continuum or Magico.....
Who? ;)
sorry to disagree here but the B&W Zeppelin is something you buy for your kids. It's really not hifi. It's something quite expensive aimed at a market who want a dock but feel buying something from a hifi company is going to be better. It's really not.
Well you're not really disagreeing with me Simon - I haven't properly listened to one, so I can't really say whether they are crap or not - but as I said, my inner-snob assumes they must be... Maybe my inner-snob is right, but that doesn't mean it is right for me to dismiss something without listening to it for myself, if that makes sense.
griffo104
12-08-2011, 14:27
Well you're not really disagreeing with me Simon - I haven't properly listened to one, so I can't really say whether they are crap or not - but as I said, my inner-snob assumes they must be... Maybe my inner-snob is right, but that doesn't mean it is right for me to dismiss something without listening to it for myself, if that makes sense.
I see your point, you are right not to judge without listening, but sometimes your inner snob is giving you some pretty good advice so don't always ignore it.
As for my mp3, I spent £15 on an interconnect cable and hook it up to my hifi that way, no dock needed.
I've got an old Creative Zen Jukebox which also allows me to record, via the same cable, from the tape outs on the amp as it has a built in MP3 decoder, so I don't need to go anywhere near a computer to rip stuff, I just switch it on when I listen to the album I want to rip. Easy-peasy. the same input can be told it's digital and you can record direct from the optical out of the cd player but you need another cable for that and I'm a cheapskate.
Of course it's pig ugly so can't be as good as an ipod :ner:
Lodgesound
12-08-2011, 15:59
However - retro / vintage and highly technical-looking (in a straight-out-of-a-set-from Flash Gordon) kind of way is the new chic...........well at least in my mind.
Who wants bland-looking new stuff with the usual touch-screen interface anyway? The trouble is that it all looks the same these days.....almost sterile....(rushes off to find the 2 giant volt meters in the shed).
Spectral Morn
12-08-2011, 16:49
The B&O Beolab 5 speakers and are very impressive.
http://www.bang-olufsen.com/beolab5
As are the Beolab 3's
http://www.bang-olufsen.com/beolab3
I approached them with as open a mind as I could (I had reservations) but they were in fact very good at what they were doing and its a pity I could not hear them elsewhere and on the end of equipment I knew but alas I don't think that is possible as they are designed to match B&O gear.
I know Stereophile reviewed the Beolab 5's a few years ago and managed (just) to hook them up to non B&O equipment with pretty good results.
Regards D S D L
griffo104
12-08-2011, 16:59
The B&O Beolab 5 speakers and are very impressive.
http://www.bang-olufsen.com/beolab5
As are the Beolab 3's
http://www.bang-olufsen.com/beolab3
I approached them with as open a mind as I could (I had reservations) but they were in fact very good at what they were doing and its a pity I could not hear them elsewhere and on the end of equipment I knew but alas I don't think that is possible as they are designed to match B&O gear.
I know Stereophile reviewed the Beolab 5's a few years ago and managed (just) to hook them up to non B&O equipment with pretty good results.
Regards D S D L
I think these have B&O's ICE power modules in them for the active amplification, along with DSP for adjusting based on room acoustics.
I've not heard these particular speakers but brands such as Bel Canto also use the ICE modules in their amplification and I'm not particularly keen on them. I've also heard some Danish power amps which use the modules, their name escapes but a Wmmer has them, and again they can sound nice but seem bleach the sound a little too much.
Not sure B&O themselves implement their own technology to see if these are preferable to the others I've mentioned above.
Spectral Morn
12-08-2011, 17:25
I think these have B&O's ICE power modules in them for the active amplification, along with DSP for adjusting based on room acoustics.
I've not heard these particular speakers but brands such as Bel Canto also use the ICE modules in their amplification and I'm not particularly keen on them. I've also heard some Danish power amps which use the modules, their name escapes but a Wmmer has them, and again they can sound nice but seem bleach the sound a little too much.
Not sure B&O themselves implement their own technology to see if these are preferable to the others I've mentioned above.
Visit any B&O dealer as I did (the now sadly closed Perth Scotland branch, run by a lovely lady) and have a listen.
Regards D S D L
B&O have the facilities to make some of the finest audio gear in the world, but form has often come before function inmuch of their 80's stuff especially. Things began a definite improvement in the mid 90's and appears to continue, which can only be a great thing, especially since they contracted down to concentration on their "core competences" to put it in Beospeak.
B&O's stuff has always been well put together and much of it is long lasting. Their top-line 1970's gear is still desirable and I was very pleased with the beolab 1700 tuner I bought for peanuts a few months ago, only the limited tuning scale (up to 104 and not 108) being the issue for me...
Look, B&O isn't cr@p in any shape or form. Their stuff may not appeal to audio hobbyists like us, but it has a very definte place in the audio scheme of things and sometimes can be truly innovative, like their current top speaker models..
Lodgesound
12-08-2011, 19:49
Let us not forget whilst on the subject of B&O that they actually invented HX-PRO which was then licensed to Dolby...
The system which in essence was "servoed bias" for tape machines hugely improved the S/N ratio of the humble cassette as well as professional machines.
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
12-08-2011, 19:55
Its all image before substance, but in about 70 to 80% of cases image is the substance for the potential customer. A discerning customer is the oddity, so why should the big companies aim for the minority market.
They say that the UK invented capitalism but the yanks made it work by giving everyone the opportunity to become the feeder instead of the fed upon. The classic US marketing philosophy that I think was coined by a Chicago meat salesman in the early 50's was "never mind the taste, sell the sizzle" and that is American style capitalism in a nutshell, and it has polluted the world for about 100 years and we are going to see a new take on it for the next 100 years from the Chinese.
The day of the craftsman will never die, but he will never be mainstream. So just make a choice, do you want to be part of a craftsman based hobby, which will always be small and select, and something for others to eventually aspire to. Or do you want to be part of the dross who devote their lives to image. It will be the choice, all you have to do is make it. BUT understand any company entirely based on the profit / market motives, especially if they have shareholders pockets or directors pension pots to fill can never be part of the former as the corruption is absolute.
You waste you time by trying to make people understand or join us, they have to get disillusioned, they have to wish to seek it. That is the way the world will go, be it food or Hi-Fi, it matters not. It only becomes important when it matters. Just thank on-line that the alternative will always be visible for people who want to look.
sq225917
12-08-2011, 20:50
Different people have different priorities, just because we typically put function over form in hifi doesn't mean others who favour form over function are wrong, they just have different priorities. I'd take a well engineered mass produced product built to exacting standards, as my father Beogram 1200RG obviously was over some shed cobbled functional piece of visual cluster F_ck any day of the week.
We don't all want hairshirt looks, some of us want looks and performance.
Hi Simon,
Was that a poke at Richard's equipment? If so, cut it out, as I don't want to see that stuff here!
What if you can get stunning looks, superb engineering, and utterly OUTSTANDING sonic performance, with specialist bespoke equipment, totally divorced from the mainstream, without paying through the nose for the 'prestige value' of a known hi-end badge?
My, hand-built from scratch, Tube Distinctions Copper amp ticks all those boxes, but it was chosen FIRST AND FOREMOST because of how it sounds, not how it looks ;)
Here's my mate, daftee-boy, posing amongst some Copper amp porn (my amp is the second one on the right with the green transformer covers):
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5599/bezas.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/bezas.jpg/)
...not to mention some even more stunning Soul-Mate monoblocks, in the background, designed by the same chap, Anthony Matthews.
It's just a pity his talents in interior design don't match those he has in electronics! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Its all image before substance, but in about 70 to 80% of cases image is the substance for the potential customer. A discerning customer is the oddity, so why should the big companies aim for the minority market.
They say that the UK invented capitalism but the yanks made it work by giving everyone the opportunity to become the feeder instead of the fed upon. The classic US marketing philosophy that I think was coined by a Chicago meat salesman in the early 50's was "never mind the taste, sell the sizzle" and that is American style capitalism in a nutshell, and it has polluted the world for about 100 years and we are going to see a new take on it for the next 100 years from the Chinese.
The day of the craftsman will never die, but he will never be mainstream. So just make a choice, do you want to be part of a craftsman based hobby, which will always be small and select, and something for others to eventually aspire to. Or do you want to be part of the dross who devote their lives to image. It will be the choice, all you have to do is make it. BUT understand any company entirely based on the profit / market motives, especially if they have shareholders pockets or directors pension pots to fill can never be part of the former as the corruption is absolute.
You waste you time by trying to make people understand or join us, they have to get disillusioned, they have to wish to seek it. That is the way the world will go, be it food or Hi-Fi, it matters not. It only becomes important when it matters. Just thank on-line that the alternative will always be visible for people who want to look.
Excellent post, Richard. We are in 100% agreement! :)
Marco.
Hi Simon,
Was that a poke at Richard's equipment? If so, I don't want to see that stuff here!
What if you can get stunning looks, superb engineering, and utterly OUTSTANDING sonic performance, with specialist bespoke equipment, totally divorced from the mainstream, without paying through the nose for the 'prestige value' of a known hi-end badge?
My, hand-built from scratch, Tube Distinctions Copper amp ticks all those boxes, but it was chosen FIRST AND FOREMOST because of how it sounds, not how it looks ;)
Here's my mate, daftee-boy, posing amongst some Copper amp porn (my amp is the second one, on the right):
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5599/bezas.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/bezas.jpg/)
...not to mention some even more stunning Soul-Mate monoblocks, in the background, designed by the same chap, Anthony Matthews.
It's just a pity his talents in interior design don't match those he has in electronics! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Oh come on Marco. To most people, that copper stuff looks absolute sh*te! While you're wetting yourself over the TD greatness on show, most people out there would look at that stuff as middle-aged boys' (who should know better) toys... I'm not saying I agree with that point of view mind :lol:
Quick example, I played a CD my wife likes (:eek:). She looked at the Croft totally bemused, not knowing how to set the volume controls, let alone set the input with all those switches on the front.. Apologies, but most people just want to take, say, a CD, place it in the slot/on the drawer/whatever, press one button and off you go.. Wifey would rather use the panasonic boom-box we have in the kitchen to play her CD's on :(
I'm reminded of an MD of a Ford dealer years ago, who got to drive a Ferrari summatorother. He complained about the cramped interior, the heavy clutch and gear-change, the (wonderful - to me) howl of the twin camshafts a few inches behind his head and the terrible ride, not forgetting the total lack of space to put anything. Now, to an enthusiast, the engine would be glorious in it's "musicality," the ride and handling sharp, sensitive and "sensual," the whole car would try to be an extension of the driver.. See what I mean?
Sure I do, but I'm only concerned with what true enthusiasts think (the people AoS is aimed at), not the plebs in the general public! :)
The point I was making to Simon was that performance-first bespoke audio equipment from small manufacturers needn't be, I quote, a "shed cobbled functional piece of visual cluster F_ck" ;)
The poor boy does have an unhealthy obsession with sheds!! :lol:
Marco.
Alan Sircom
13-08-2011, 09:28
Sure I do, but I'm only concerned with what true enthusiasts think (the people AoS is aimed at), not the plebs in the general public! :)
The point I was making to Simon was that performance-first bespoke audio equipment from small manufacturers needn't be, I quote, a "shed cobbled functional piece of visual cluster F_ck" ;)
The poor boy does have an unhealthy obsession with sheds!! :lol:
Marco.
But we do ourselves no favours by making audio so grotesquely inaccessible. Richard's absolutely correct that enthusiasts grow out disillusionment with the norm, but products that are so dysfunctional they drive away those proto-enthusiasts in the process, no one benefits. The extreme products shouldn't be neglected, but they are the enthusiast's enthusiast's product and are extremely off-putting for those on the nursery slopes of enthusiasm.
(And no, this isn't a sly dig at Richard's products. Far from it - I think he has the balance about right; the products are enthusiast-led without being too tweaky)
We can be absurdly reductionist about this - the 'how do you turn it on, dear?' test isn't really relevant, because enthusiasts are always prepared to suffer a little for their art. However, if you find the ritual of playing a disc involves 10 minutes of genuflecting before a series of components, and having to scrabble round on your knees to load a disc, you might have gone too far.
There's a sense of balance that we seem to be losing, as what we view as 'enthusiast' other enthusiasts view as 'eccentric'.
However, if you find the ritual of playing a disc involves 10 minutes of genuflecting before a series of components, and having to scrabble round on your knees to load a disc, you might have gone too far.
That's a good test of whether you are focused solely on the equipment or actually enjoy listening to music. For me, I like stability and don't like messing with my setup unless I have a strong inkling that it's going to improve things. I want to be able to play music and enjoy the experience without having to reconnect cables or perform the rites-of-12-controls.
Hi Alan,
I get what you're saying, but what can be less "grotesquely inaccessible" than a system-building policy of 'keeping it simple, stupid'? :)
What I value is equipment which sounds wonderful, is superbly engineered, reliable, looks good, and is simple to use - and where the bulk of what you're paying for is out-and-out audio performance, not 'bling', superfluous frippery/gadgetry, or the mark-up of ridiculously overpriced 'hi-fi jewellery'.
And it only takes SECONDS to play a CD (or a record) on my system! ;)
If your argument is that hi-end audio can be "grotesquely inaccessible" to your average punter, then perhaps it's time to educate them on the benefits of the K.I.S.S principle and how to achieve it?
Marco.
:lol: Your Del sounds like a lovely lady - and extremely tolerant too :D
OK, I'm not a "we" and enter your listening room with all the gear switched off - unlikely probably but bear with me... I want to play a CD I've just bought. What do I have to do?
I suspect I'd have to fumble round the back of the power amp to find the power switch, flick another on the preamp, which I believe is much easier to use than mine and al this before I find the CD player is in two boxes FFS :) See where I'm going? The fact that the pre and power amp need to "warm up" too, if only for 30 seconds or so and hot glowing valves aren't everyone's idea of safe usage..
Any "ordinary" person would have run a mile by now. Compare this with some of the more tradidional B&O style gear...
Walk up to the unit we used to call the "Ouverture," the glass doors slide sexily apart, press "load" and the clamp glides gracefully upwards, place disc on "platform" and press CD/Play. The clamp comes down, the speakers switch on automatically, there's music within a very few seconds, by which time you're sat and ready. These days with their current gear, all the music is stored on hard drive (I think).
OK, this latter way of doing it isn't what "enthusiasts" want, as we like to get down and dirty with our gear, but I hope you see what I mean :lol:
Since my system is solid state and is left permanently on, I go up to the SACD player, open the drawer, place a disc in and press 'Play'. :)
Alan Sircom
13-08-2011, 11:22
Hi Alan,
I get what you're saying, but what can be less "grotesquely inaccessible" than a system-building policy of 'keeping it simple, stupid'? :)
What I value is equipment which sounds wonderful, is superbly engineered, reliable, looks good, and is simple to use - and where the bulk of what you're paying for is out-and-out audio performance, not 'bling', superfluous frippery, or the mark-up of ridiculously overpriced 'hi-fi jewellery'.
And it only takes SECONDS to play a CD (or a record) on my system! ;)
If your argument is that hi-end audio can be "grotesquely inaccessible" to your average punter, then perhaps it's time to educate them on the benefits of the K.I.S.S principle and how to achieve it?
Marco.
So... housing a top-loading CD player underneath a valve power amplifier counts as 'accessible', then? ;)
Who does that, then? Not me - I don't own a top-loading CD player! :)
Dave, I'll get to your post in a minute.....
Marco.
Alan Sircom
13-08-2011, 11:56
Who does that, then? Not me - I don't own a top-loading CD player!
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5599/bezas.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/bezas.jpg/)
That Shanling player in the lower right hand shelf is hardly in the K.I.S.S. position.
Lol - that's not my system, daftee! :eyebrows:
Does it resemble what I have in my signature below? ;)
It belongs to Anthony TD, the designer of my valve amp. The Shanling is sitting on a spare shelf, as it's only occasionally used for SACD duties (and removed then from its current position accordingly). The main CDP (a heavily-modded Eikos) is sitting on the top shelf of the centre rack, and obscured by my mate, Ian.
Marco.
Hi Dave,
OK, I'm not a "we" and enter your listening room with all the gear switched off - unlikely probably but bear with me... I want to play a CD I've just bought. What do I have to do?
As the CDP/DAC and turntable are permanently switched on, all you'd have to do is flick two switches (one for the preamp and the other for the power amp), select a CD or record, 1000s of which are on shelves in alphabetical order, within inches of the system (by which time the amps will be ready to use), and play your format of choice - simples.
Within seconds, you'll have music! :cool:
It's a damn sight more straightforward to use than some computer audio set-ups!! ;)
Marco.
It's a damn sight more straightforward to use than some computer audio set-ups!! ;)
Well I won't argue too much, as you did say 'some computer audio set-ups' ;)
However, once mine has booted, that's it - just a few mouse clicks. If I left it on and in hibernation when idle, I would have to do no more than move a mouse. As I control it remotely and spend a lot of time at my desktop PC whilst listening to music, I don't have to do anything to play music other than select an album in Foobar. I can play hundreds of differing tracks/albums without getting off my fat butt :eyebrows:
Of course arriving at this point did take me many hundreds of hours of ripping, building and testing, but now its done it's the simplest way I have ever known of enjoying music, other than switching on a radio and foregoing sound quality.
Lol - thanks for letting me off! :eyebrows:
However, once mine has booted, that's it...
That's the thing, though, some set-ups take rather longer to boot-up than others, and far longer than it takes for me to pop a CD in my CDP and press play!
And what happens when the system crashes, or there's a problem with the hard-drive, or this or that or the next 'doo-dah'/thingy? ;)
Sorry, dude. I like to be the one in control of the act of selecting and playing my music (via physical means), not a bloody computer! I hate being reliant on the damn things. It's all personal taste, though, so let's not turn this into a computer audio vs. traditional hi-fi debate :)
Marco.
It's all personal taste, though, so let's not turn this into a computer audio vs. traditional hi-fi debate :)
Wouldn't dream of it Marco and nothing was farther from my mind. The pleasure is finding what works for the individual in the pursuit of playing beautiful sounding music. It matters not one jot how we get there and I agree about the methodology itself too, I'm lucky being comfortable building such a thing as a music server and maintaining it, but give me a bunch of valves and a valve tester and I'm quickly out of my depth - all personal taste as you say and computer audio is definitely not suitable for everyone.
:cool:
So is there any hifi mags that has a good in-depth coverage of valves and valve components, f.ex. Hifi World or Hifi News?
Hi Dave,
As the CDP/DAC and turntable are permanently switched on, all you'd have to do is flick two switches (one for the preamp and the other for the power amp), select a CD or record, 1000s of which are on shelves in alphabetical order, within inches of the system (by which time the amps will be ready to use), and play your format of choice - simples.
Within seconds, you'll have music! :cool:
It's a damn sight more straightforward to use than some computer audio set-ups!! ;)
Marco.
If it was me, I'd lock meself in your listening room, set up a bed in the secret cupboard and be in heaven for a good long while :lol:, but as you know, I was trying to put you in the position of an audio numpty who would barely know a flick-switch from a push-button ;)
Hi,
Has anyone heard anymore on what may happen to HiFi Choice?
Hi,
Has anyone heard anymore on what may happen to HiFi Choice?
In the original news article in Guardian from the 20th of July it said that Future Publishing should sell or close 8 magazines including HFC. As selling is more profitable usually, I guess that is what Future intend to do over the course of some months. The article also says that it's a large downturn in the US part of their business who has lead to their need to downscale in the UK. In US it seems like Future will go completely digital.
Alan Sircom
14-08-2011, 17:11
In the original news article in Guardian from the 20th of July it said that Future Publishing should sell or close 8 magazines including HFC. As selling is more profitable usually, I guess that is what Future intend to do over the course of some months. The article also says that it's a large downturn in the US part of their business who has lead to their need to downscale in the UK. In US it seems like Future will go completely digital.
The closure of Borders in the US - and Barnes & Noble's forced march from newsstand to NOOK Newsstand (B&N's version of Kindle) - has made the idea of selling magazines to American readers on a traditional newsstand impossible. Unless you are in one of the really big cities or one of the really big airports in one of the really big cities, print is limited to subscriptions and a few variations on the theme of People magazine.
That, plus the 'charge like a wounded buffalo' abilities of many surviving printers over there makes the move to digital an inevitability.
We face different troubles here. Sales are weakening but newsstand is still strong (generally here, at least four out of five magazines sold are sold through newsagents) and the newsagents both know and exploit this fact.
Some more on the timeline:
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/jarratt-first-to-jump-from-future-publishing/082602
Seem's that HFC has new owners now, the current Editor of said publication used one of his 'days owed' to conviently miss the "meet your new boss pow wow" :lol:
Should prove interesting for the current Jurno's on HFC books :stalks:
Hi Tony,
Who are these new owners?
Hello Dean,
Hifi Choice is now the property of Hifi News along with Home cinema choice and What Satellite.
With Paul Miller as group editor
Very interesting. I wonder if Paul Miller will step back as editor of HFN, then? John Bamford, maybe?
this is good news for the publication imho.
http://www.mediaweek.co.uk/News/MostEmailed/1098125/Future-sells-three-audio-visual-titles-MyHobbyStore/
Paul I susepct will be very much at the fore of the HFN without question, how HFC will now evolve will be the key.
I also suspect that the current editor of HFC may not follow the rest of the staff over to my hobby store.
Hi,
It should be interesting to see what happens to Hifi Choice now.
Spectral Morn
15-10-2011, 06:59
This months News is almost a 100% rehash of previous HiFi News issues. Perhaps PM was too busy with HFC to be bothered presenting the magazine buyers with an actual issue of HFN this month; with new current content. This month anyway the mag should be called Old HiFi News.
I suppose there might be a few out there who did not buy any issues during the previous year so it will be all fresh to them, to those who have move on by, nothing to see here......:(
I had started to look forward to HFN again and this current issue is a real kick in the guts and imho is a rip off.
Not the worst issue though, that one was under a previous editor, where the whole issue was based around the ISEA awards and was nothing but large photos and very little text :steam:
As long as HFC continue doing the Collection I will be happy enough but other than that I don't buy it anymore.
Regards D S D L
StanleyB
15-10-2011, 07:12
I had started to look forward to HFN again and this current issue is a real kick in the guts and imho is a rip off.
Not the worst issue though, that one was under a previous editor, where the whole issue was based around the ISEA awards and was nothing but large photos and very little text :steam:
A picture tells a thousand words ;), and HIFI porn relies on loads of pictures.
Do you chaps think HFN and HFC will merge? Seems to make sense, given the still contracting audio-retail market out there...
This months News is almost a 100% rehash of previous HiFi News issues. Perhaps PM was too busy with HFC to be bothered presenting the magazine buyers with an actual issue of HFN this month; with new current content. This month anyway the mag should be called Old HiFi News.
I suppose there might be a few out there who did not buy any issues during the previous year so it will be all fresh to them, to those who have move on by, nothing to see here......:(
I had started to look forward to HFN again and this current issue is a real kick in the guts and imho is a rip off.
Not the worst issue though, that one was under a previous editor, where the whole issue was based around the ISEA awards and was nothing but large photos and very little text :steam:
As long as HFC continue doing the Collection I will be happy enough but other than that I don't buy it anymore.
Regards D S D L
Hi,
There current issue is the Yearbook issue. They do this every year. It is mainly a reveiw of a number of items that got good reviews. The next issue (December issue) is out in 2 weeks time.
I too like looking a Hifi Choice's collection issue.
Do you chaps think HFN and HFC will merge? Seems to make sense, given the still contracting audio-retail market out there...
Hi,
I do think this could happen but not straight away. I think the owners will give it a bit of time to see if they can revamp the mag.
Hi,
There current issue is the Yearbook issue. They do this every year. It is mainly a reveiw of a number of items that got good reviews. The next issue (December issue) is out in 2 weeks time.
I got my first HFN issue in the mail with this one, and it then was a fine overview for my part.
HFN and Choice will NOT be mergering one thing you can be sure of here!
sq225917
16-10-2011, 16:26
Hifi news has been rocking of late, much improved over the Av wilderness years.
Agreed, it's my second best read after Stereophile.
Lol - I love HFN, but I don't get on much with Stereophile.
It's too 'American hi-end' for me (understandably of course), but their biggest sin is that they don't do vintage hi-fi, which for me, because they cover the subject so well, with top-notch and interesting articles every month, is one of the main reasons why HFN is currently undergoing a resurgence.
The other one I like is HFW, but they need to give Haden Boardman more stuff to review, and less to Noel Keywood (who does come out with some primo tripe sometimes), as I like Haden's taste in kit and his style of writing, as I do that of Adam Smith and David Price.
Hi-fi Choice is of little interest to me (it's gone too mainstream for my tastes), but I wish them well all the same :)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
16-10-2011, 20:18
Lol - I love HFN, but I don't get on much with Stereophile.
It's too 'American hi-end' for me (understandably of course), but their biggest sin is that they don't do vintage hi-fi, which for me, because they cover the subject so well, with top-notch and interesting articles every month, is one of the main reasons why HFN is currently undergoing a resurgence.
The other one I like is HFW, but they need to give Haden Boardman more stuff to review, and less to Noel Keywood (who does come out with some primo tripe sometimes), as I like Haden's taste in kit and his style of writing, as I do that of Adam Smith and David Price.
Hi-fi Choice is of little interest to me (it's gone too mainstream for my tastes), but I wish them well all the same :)
Marco.
Stereophile has done vintage gear quite a bit in Art Dudleys column.
Regards D S D L
Is that something fairly new, Neil? As far as I remember, they didn't used to cover vintage :)
Marco.
hifi_dave
16-10-2011, 20:39
They've done vintage for some years -- Garrard 301, Thorens TD 124, SPUs, EMTs, Deccas etc.
Lol - it's been years since I've read a copy!
What sort of percentage of the mag is devoted to vintage kit? Are there in-depth articles, like HFN do, covering several pages of the magazine, or is it merely a token gesture to keep vintage lovers 'on side'?
Marco.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.