Justin & Jerry's Hifi Blog

[jandl100]

Hee hee - yeah, I knew you'd say something like that, Marco.

Well - yep, I agree.
But I've yet to hear an amp, or any component, that can do it all.
If you want to capture the outer dynamic envelope on Big Music, then you really do have to sacrifice some of the low level subtleties that amps like my Viva excel at.

And as for someone who objects to tonal colourations who then chooses to listen thru Tannoys .... :whistle: :eyebrows:
... we all listen to kit with sonic errors which we find acceptable, while some other folk dislike or cannot tolerate them :exactly:

I agree that there are more compromises than usual in a 300B amp like the Viva, but I can imagine some folk just falling head over heels in love with it. I've been listening to some baroque vocal music this evening, a few instruments none of which really stretch to the frequency or dynamic extremes, with female solo vocals and a small chorus .... cor lummy, guvnor :drool: !!!!

[Marco]

Hi Jerry,


But I've yet to hear an amp, or any component, that can do it all.


It's not a case of doing it all, but rather minimising compromises as far as possible. Single-ended 300B amps have too many of their eggs all in the one basket; i.e. their compromises, IMO, grossly outweigh their benefits. That isn't the case, in my experience, with other types of valve amps. However, those compromises are significantly reduced when using them with uber-efficient speakers, which of course bring with them their own compromises. Sadly, there ain't no free lunch...


And as for someone who objects to tonal colourations who then chooses to listen thru Tannoys .... :whistle: :eyebrows:
... we all listen to kit with sonic errors which we find acceptable, while some other folk dislike or cannot tolerate them :exactly:


Exactly, but one expects the most technically flawed item in the audio reproduction chain (speakers), therefore to be the most coloured sounding, not the amp(s) driving them....! That scenario is a little 'arse about tit' ;)


I agree that there are more compromises than usual in a 300B amp like the Viva, but I can imagine some folk just falling head over heels in love with it.

Sure, and I completely agree.

They're just not for me, dude. A) they wouldn't drive my speakers properly, as big Tannoys need lots of grip from the partnering amp, in order to properly control those huge cones, b) their sonic strengths would only compliment about 30% of my music collection, and c) because they go against the principles of what I consider is necessary for a hi-fi system to be able to accurately reproduce 'real world' music.

However, enjoy the Viva, as no doubt you are doing already! :)

Marco.

[jandl100]

Yep, somewhat to my surprise, I've not gone back to the Parasound or Yaqin amps since plumbing the Viva in to my system last Sunday (4 days ago).

In fact, as new CDs arrive in't'post, I am now listening to recordings that I haven't any preconceptions about - and I have to say that in these circumstances the Viva is very enjoyable indeed. In particular, a CD of chamber music including flute, violin, piano sounds awesome!
An interesting result.

But sure, I anticipate that the Yaqin is a long term keeper (by my standards ;)), while I suspect the Viva will be moved on in the foreseeables.

[Marco]

In fact, as new CDs arrive in't'post, I am now listening to recordings that I haven't any preconceptions about - and I have to say that in these circumstances the Viva is very enjoyable indeed. In particular, a CD of chamber music including flute, violin, piano sounds awesome!
An interesting result.


Sure, but for me, hardly a surprising one, as that sort of music is exactly what a 300B SE amp would thrive in reproducing - the sort of music I'd listen to maybe once in a blue moon... ;)

Anyway, the good thing about this box-swapping malarkey is that you get to try different 'flavours' of kit, which you might not normally consider right? :cool:

Marco.

[jandl100]

Yep, that's what it is all about for me - trying different things.

The only true keepers are my speakers - a very large crowbar would be needed to separate me from my MBLs! :lol:

[Marco]

...or me from my Tannoys! ;)

Marco.

[RobsterD]

Hmmm :scratch:

I'm not sure now which type of EH 300B I have.

Looking at pics on t'web (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=eh+300b&hl=en&tbo=u&rlz=1T4DSGQ_en___GB480&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=xSb1ULCoMemY0QWR24FI&ved=0CEoQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=634) the standard EH 300B has black lettering, whereas mine are kind of gold-ish .....

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8428.jpg

So do I have EH Gold Grid 300B valves already? :scratch:

yep they're gold grids,not that brilliant in the grand scheme of 300b's IMO

[jandl100]

Ah, Ok - thanks Rob.

So you're not impressed!

One of the bloody things seems to be failing anyway! :(
... http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=402604#post402604

Any reccies for not-too-expensive 300B?

__________________

On the advice of an AOSer on the above-linked thread to not use the dodgy-seeming 300B, the Yaqin has now been put back in harness.

Oh boy - what a difference between the Viva!

OK, I can well believe the Viva may be coloured, but by gum the Yaqin seems kind of thin and pale in comparison!!

I suspect I just need to re-tune to the sound of the Yaqin - but there is real musical magic in them thar 300B hills! :eek:

[RobsterD]

Got a Fi X3 300B amp at the mo which came with some JJ 300B's ,they seem OK ,though get some Emission Labs they were lovely in my Audio Note Conqueror,what does the designer recommend ?

[jandl100]

Ooooo, this is rather nice!

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8578_zpsc6eb636c.jpg

A Coral MC-81 mc cartridge.

Shibata profile stylus tip, beryllium cantilever. 0.25mV. 1.8-2.3g.

Compared to my Zu/Denon 103, the sound is moire focussed and detailed, a bit lighter in balance, bass is leaner but tighter.

Yum! :drool:

[jandl100]

Any reccies for not-too-expensive 300B?


I bought a quad of JJ 300B from Hotrox.
Very very nice, so much better than the somewhat tired EH Gold Grids.

____

Using the Viva amp via its 'direct' input today, bypassing the pre-amp section ....

Fook me.

The wife and I watched a fave Gilbert and Sullivan operetta DVD this evening.

"That sounds different, is it a new amp?" ... she says after a short while (she's used to my boxswapping habit, but she almost never comments about the sound) ... "it's better, there's more detail and controlled power in the voices, that soloist doesn't sound like he is straining now " ... "the diction is much clearer".

She's quite right. It seems more powerful and in control, too. No top-end rolloff, and the bass is surprisingly deep and well controlled, the mids are stunningly natural.

In fact, it sounds superb as a power amp. It is the best amp I have had, and not by a little.
Hmm. :scratch: It isn't at all what I expected from a 300B-based amp now that the valves are sorted and the pre-amp section bypassed!

[Ali Tait]

Only heard them at shows, but I've always been impressed by the Viva amps.

[jandl100]

My Viva 300p is defo a game of two halves :eyebrows: -- the pre section is Olde Worlde valve; kind of warm, soft and cuddly. The power section (at least with EH 6NS7 and JJ 300B) is just amazingly resolved and neutral. I've used some very good amps with my MBLs, but the Viva power section easily wins the crown ... for now! :)

[jandl100]

New amp! :carrot:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8851_zps76a40822.jpg

I am absolutely stunned at how good this sounds driving my MBL speakers. :drool:
Limitless power, superb rez, total control, amazingly spacious. Not sweet, just accurate. ;)

It's a Krell KAV-250a power amp, suitably adorned with music and frog! :eyebrows:
Rated at 250wpc, but I recall a tech review which measured 330wpc.

:yay:

[MartinT]

Nice, Jerry. I didn't see you as a Krell lover. I think you have to be choosy, some of their amps are crackers and others are a little cold.

Hearing big KEF 105s being driven by a big Krell was an eye opener. I didn't think KEFs could sound like that - deep, tight and totally under control.

[jandl100]

Yep, I've had Krell before and loved them - KRC-2 pre, 400xi & 300i integrated, KPS-25c CDP/pre. All good.

Also had a KAV280 cdp and KSA50 mk1 power that I didn't really get on with.

As you say, you have to pick & choose from the range.

[MartinT]

I feel another power amp comparison coming on ;)

[jandl100]

Yeah! - I'm up for it!

... the Parasound was good - the Krell is better. ;)

[MartinT]

Would you mind telling me how much you paid for the Krell (by PM, if you prefer)?

[DSJR]

New amp! :carrot:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8851_zps76a40822.jpg

I am absolutely stunned at how good this sounds driving my MBL speakers. :drool:
Limitless power, superb rez, total control, amazingly spacious. Not sweet, just accurate. ;)

It's a Krell KAV-250a power amp, suitably adorned with music and frog! :eyebrows:
Rated at 250wpc, but I recall a tech review which measured 330wpc.

:yay:

You going backwards Jerry or what? Sorry to disagree with you but this amp is as hard toned as were all the cheaper budget Krells of this period, with etched deeeeetail that's totally unnatural and nothing like as gracious as the proper Krells available at the same time. Furthermore, the output stage is extremely fragile and the slighted hint of a short will take it out - EXPENSIVELY!!!!! Been there and dun-it guv'nor and the manager's face was NOT a pretty sight :lol:

Now, if you'd bought one of the original pre-CAST FPB models, which were on a different and higher plane of existance, I'd be jealous :)

[Sovereign]

Nice one Jerry

[jandl100]

Thanks, James. :)

_____________

Ah, good ol' Dave, you can always be relied on .... :doh:

Deaf as a deaf thing, arn'tcha?! - Martin Eisenach was here a couple of days ago, and went back to his Quad 63 etc system with much more than a hint of sadness saying his system sounded like watching TV rather than being at the event itself compared to mine. He went out of his way to particularly praise the treble as being oh-so natural.

If you'd actually heard my system I would have more respect for your views.

Then again - Krell sound is very dependent on speaker load, ime - give them an easy time and they can indeed sound etched and unnatural - give them something to chew on and it's a very different story. Maybe you just lack the necessary breadth of experience.

... and this amp is well over a decade old - if it's that fragile, why hasn't it died yet, eh? :scratch:

_____

Mods: Is it possible to ban specific people from posting on your own threads?

[MartinT]

Mods: Is it possible to ban specific people from posting on your own threads?

No Jerry, but you can always exercise your ignore options.

[jandl100]

No Jerry, but you can always exercise your ignore options.

Yes, but he'll still be spouting his crapola for others to read. :rolleyes:

ah well - that's part of the joy of forums, I guess.

[Marco]

Yeah, Dave, reign in the neggy vibes. please. There's nothing more annoying than someone pissing on your parade when you're over the moon listening to a new addition to your system. Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

[kenworthy100]

Superb amp, I always aspired to own one but never had a room or system large enough to explore its full potential. My main memory was a colleague who used this model with Martin Logan Aerius, a joy to listen to and extremely revealing.

[jandl100]

New speaker cables, too. Arrived yesterday.
Never heard of them before - but looked tempting on eBay auction. :eyebrows:
Silent Wire LS6 (http://www.silent-wire.de/en/speaker-cables/series-6.html) - made in Germany. Sort of a multiple solid-core design!
Very detailed and focussed; lovely soundstage, grain is noticeable by its absence, treble is hi-rez but very pure.
I like these a lot.

I should be getting RobsterD's VdH The Wind speaker cables next week - that'll be an interesting comparison.
My guess is that I'll go bi-wire, with the Silent Wire on mids and treble, and VdH on the bass, where they are said to excel.
We'll see! :)

[DSJR]

Yes, but he'll still be spouting his crapola for others to read. :rolleyes:

ah well - that's part of the joy of forums, I guess.

It looks as if posts have been removed? Let me confirm Jerry that ALL you need to do is compare one of these AV series amps with an FPB model as I suggested. THEN you can accuse me of crapola if you wish. By the way, I'm talking about the GEAR, not your good self.

[Marco]

It looks as if posts have been removed?

No posts have been removed, Dave. Jerry, however, may have edited one of his earlier posts.

Marco.

[jandl100]

Nope, not me, guv.

-- now how does that Ignore feature work?

[DSJR]

No need to ignore me - but there's nothing like a reasoned discussion about old gear though - I'll leave you to it on this one..

[jandl100]

Well, I started to describe my latest acquisition and the words kind of turned themselves into a stand-alone mini-review, so I have duly posted it here! http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=437542#post437542

Here's a teaser pic. :)
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8984_zps678afcf2.jpg (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/jandl100/media/DSCF8984_zps678afcf2.jpg.html)

[jandl100]

Ooo - my balanced power supply doohickey should be arriving today. Getting excited! :eek:

[User211]

Hm MAX have the matching KAV250 pre for £600 Jerry:)

[MartinT]

Hm MAX? Who are they?

[The Grand Wazoo]

Midland Audio Exchange (http://www.midlandaudiox-change.co.uk/)

[User211]

See Wam dealer classifieds.

[jandl100]

Yep, seen that. ... my old KRC-3 pre would knock spots off it. ;)

[User211]

Probably! Bet it cost more too. Was just thinking synergy on the cheap(ish).

[MartinT]

Thanks, Chris.

[jandl100]

Probably! Bet it cost more too. Was just thinking synergy on the cheap(ish).

No, I don't think I believe in same brand synergy - I think what you get is an accentuation of the particular quirks of a brand. It's like room resonances, they can't be avoided so it's better to spread them out rather than increase just one. :)

[MartinT]

No, I don't think I believe in same brand synergy - I think what you get is an accentuation of the particular quirks of a brand.

Yes, I agree with this Jerry. Looking at my system I have chosen each component individually and I don't display any brand loyalty except for acknowledging the particular strengths of a brand, for instance Nelson Pass is god when it comes to preamps which explains why I'm on my third.

[Ali Tait]

Yes, I have a diy B1 buffer pre which is very good.

[Marco]

No, I don't think I believe in same brand synergy - I think what you get is an accentuation of the particular quirks of a brand.

I would agree when it comes to full systems from the one manufacturer (Naim and Linn come to mind here in particular), but there are instances where combining the use of certain products from one manufacturer can produce significant sonic dividends, especially in the analogue/vinyl domain.

I've certainly achieved that with the use of Ortofon products, namely my RS-212-D tonearm, SPU and ST-80SE SUT, where the sonic synergy gained is obvious and immediately recognised (and appreciated) by everyone who has heard it :)

Marco.

[petrat]

No, I don't think I believe in same brand synergy - I think what you get is an accentuation of the particular quirks of a brand

I think I agree! At one point, I had two lots of pre/power amps in the house, one from Naim, other from EAR. I enjoyed the results best when I decided to try them 'mixed'.

[vouk]

No, I don't think I believe in same brand synergy - I think what you get is an accentuation of the particular quirks of a brand. It's like room resonances, they can't be avoided so it's better to spread them out rather than increase just one. :)

I tend to agree as well even though I am probably the poster boy for one make systems. But if you find the "quirks" or sonic signature of one company quite appealing, it does make some sense to first look through their line for additional gear. In my case it worked well, but only as far as the other individual components I was able to compare them to were concerned.

[DSJR]

I both agree with Jerry (:eek:) and also with Marco. I know Jerry probably doesn't agree with me here, but my experience of late 90s Krell showed me that even they couldn't decide on a "family sound" for their products as the cheaper models were poles apart (not necessarily worse) than the bigger and more desirable models. Naim too went from valvey-musical but slightly sloppy (bolt-up 250 and 120), to harsh and "dynamic" with the CB models, to beefy, punchy and ever-so-slightly-grainy with the current crop on the whole in my expoerience with the current models, which is a sort-of evolution I suppose? Linn went from bland, to hideous to lean-n-sharp with their mid period amps, although I don't know about the current crop, which doesn't seem to feature on anyone's radar for some reason (over-pricing?).

The thing is, with so much used stuff around at almost sensible prices now, it can be fun to play around with combinations and move on should you not like what you've done.

[jandl100]

Yes, the KRC-3 pre I used to have had a different sonic flavour to the KAV-250a power amp I am now besotted with.
The KRC-3 was slightly warm and dark, the 250a is very open and a bit brightly lit (but I love it with a passion!). I prefer things brighter rather than darker, it's just a personal preference.

Justin / user211 has heard my MBL-based system several times driven by a variety of valve and solid state amps, he'll be visiting Jerry Towers this Friday, I'm sure he'll be happy to post his impressions here of its Krell 250a-amped performance. :)

[MartinT]

I'll be interested in his (and your) comparison between the Parasound and Krell. I'm wondering if the Krell is a little more towards the gruntiness of my Chord, or is it different again?

[jandl100]

I'll wait for Justin to have a listen before giving my views on the Parasound / Krell comparison. :) ... not that he'd take a blind bit of notice what I thought, he's a chap not easily influenced by others! :eyebrows:

[DSJR]

Jerry, you're enjoying it. That's the most important thing isn't it?

[jandl100]

You can't leave it alone, can you! :doh:

[DSJR]

Sorry? I was being genuinely enthusiastic, not sarcastic in any way - honestly. You have repeatedly told us how the amp you now have suits your speakers, room and tastes right now and you've well sussed out the presentation it has and I was supporting that honesty, not trying to put-down, let alone compete :scratch:

[jandl100]

Sorry - but given the history, it came across as very patronising.

It really would be best if you took your own advice ...


I'll leave you to it on this one..

[jandl100]

Yay! - an excellent music and hifi sesh with Justin user211 today. Great to see you again. :)

Queens of the Stone Age "Lullabies To Paralyze" impressed hugely and has been ordered from Amazon. :hairmetal: :thumbsup:

Justin brought his new Cayin pre-amp round as well. Isn't it a beauty! T'was an interesting comparison with my own Tisbury passive pre-amp.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8998_zpse8dd4adf.jpg

You can see my little Krell power amp lurking in the background, suitably adorned with musical emblem. :)

I'll let Justin comment on sound quality aspects, if he feels the desire!

[jandl100]

I was hugely impressed by the Ming Da MC2006 valve phonostage when it was at Jerry Towers for review, it just blew me completely away - I was most distressed when it was taken back :( - but this little beastie arrived today, and I have to say that it is def in the same league. And it's mine, all mine !! :eek: Wowzer!

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8999_zps64d629d5.jpg

[Ali Tait]

Cayin looks nice. What's the valves in it?

[Ninanina]

All looks lovely to me

But I want a frog like that..... :lol:

[MartinT]

I want the treble clef!

[Sovereign]

How does your new mini max compare to the Yaqin??

[Alex_UK]

The frog rocks! :)

[jandl100]

yeah, the frog is the ultimate upgrade.

ribbit

[jandl100]

How does your new mini max compare to the Yaqin??

Nope, not the same types of beasties, James - the Minimax is a phonostage, our Yaqins are integrated amps. :)

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'm a toad man myself.

[jandl100]

I want the treble clef!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360606675535?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

;)

[MartinT]

Thank you, Jerry. Been looking for one for years. Bought a lovely window 'stained glass' clef many years ago in the Seattle market and left it behind when I moved house :(

[User211]

Cayin looks nice. What's the valves in it?

TJ Full Music 274Bs - which is a rectifier. Defo better than some NOS Brimar 5U4Gs I also have. Here's some info about the preamp I wrote for another fourm:

"Bought a couple of preamps to play with - I was getting bored, as you do.

One of them is an absolute peach. Mobile pic only - but I rate it quite considerably better than the EAR868PL I had a while back, however it doesn't have a phono stage like the EAR did. I'm not sensationalising here - it is hands down better in my system than the EAR was.

It is a modified Cayin SC-10. I'm not sure how it differs, but sonically it is top rate. I bought it blind 2nd hand off ebay as I was pretty astonished by this system I reported on a while back: Cayin based system at Silverstone 2009 (http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?9796-Silverstone-Hi-Fi-Show-2009&p=109642&viewfull=1#post109642)


Sales blurb: "This top of the line preamplifier features tube rectification and gain in a classic dual monaural layout. Totally transparent yet rich with detail, this all tube preamplifier sets a new benchmark in ultra high performance audio. Designed and engineered using the finest components, the SC-10 gives ruler flat response, tremendous bandwidth, huge dynamic range, and low levels of distortion. The SC-10 utilizes four 6922 and two 5AR4 tubes coupled with two separate power packs in a dual mono-configuration giving the SC-10 unsurpassed control over all types of sonic requirements. A true reference sound with typical Cayin value."

Just goes to show that some Chinese kit is very good indeed. I think this one will stay a while. Mine is running 274Bs rather than 5AR4s. It sounds like the bolded bits - really! Plus the soundstaging is absolutely first rate. Spacious and capable of projecting both forward and backwards - very 3D!

As always the same components in different systems/rooms give different results. But I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that this is a real contender, and it easily compares with expensive US and UK designs. It cost £900 odd purely because it has next to no recognition as a quality brand in the UK, I suspect. Casework build quality is very high. Much higher visually than the 845 amps or CD player featured in the show report link, for some reason.

BTW: when I say it is modified it was done by Cayin, and its model designation is C-100. It has an SC-10 remote. It has a marking stating that the modification was done for Hit Audio. It is physically huge and very heavy. Retail for a SC-10 seems to be 5000 Euro. Much less from some Chinese sellers, if you have the guts to trust one "

[Reffc]

I was hugely impressed by the Ming Da MC2006 valve phonostage when it was at Jerry Towers for review, it just blew me completely away - I was most distressed when it was taken back :( - but this little beastie arrived today, and I have to say that it is def in the same league. And it's mine, all mine !! :eek: Wowzer!

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8999_zps64d629d5.jpg

Yup, have to agree Jerry. Very impressed with the Minimax phono stage when we tried it in my system today. Compares very favourably with the EAR834P imho. Would be more than happy with the Minimax although we only tried the MM stage. Lovely build quality too. You should be very happy with that I reckon.

After you'd left, I switched back to the Croft phonostage and I think that the Croft may have a slight edge in definition but there wasn't much in it at all.

[User211]

Anyway, back to Jezzer's system visit.

I've been to Jerry's quite a few times. Last visit he had the Parasound A21, which he brought round to my place a while back. I subsequently bought one and used it with an EAR868PL - pretty good combo with oodles of power.

I've never told Jerry this, but I thought the A21 was much better in my system than it was in his! I really wasn't that keen on it driving the MBLs. I much preferred the Graaf 5050 he had a while back.

However, the Krell KAV250 is a totally different story - it sounded much more natural than the A21 did. Easily the best power amp I have heard with the MBLs - including my own 211 monoblocks. However, I reckon that McCormack CDP is damned fine as is the Tisbury. You just don't get results as good as I heard yesterday with something naff in the chain.

For my money the Cayin worked really well too and sounded fab on all but some Jake Bugg - which I checked out when I got back home and found the same to be true. Jake appears to like passive preamps!:D

However, on some Mad Professor "The Roots Of Dubstep" (fantastic - recommended) the Cayin blew the away the passive - injecting plenty of life, colour, vibrancy and dynamics.

No preamp does everything and I am not an advocate of any particular type. I think active solid state, passive, TVCs and tube designs all have positive virtues. However, of a particular type, some are much better than others. I own three types at the moment and am enjoying switching between them.

Anyway back to Jerry's system - if I couldn't run my Apogee Duetta Sigs I'd probably track down some 116Fs. Yesterday they just did everything brilliantly. Which worries me as I have never liked Krells. I heard a KSA 300 a couple of weeks before driving some Ushers. I suspect it is even better than the KAV250 TBH. That plus 116Fs could be truly awesome!

[User211]

BTW Jerry did I leave some fags at your place? Also Kev says can you post his 300Bs back?

[jandl100]

Yep & yep

[jandl100]

.... However, the Krell KAV250a is a totally different story - it sounded much more natural than the A21 did. Easily the best power amp I have heard with the MBLs - including my own 211 monoblocks. However, I reckon that McCormack CDP is damned fine as is the Tisbury. You just don't get results as good as I heard yesterday with something naff in the chain.
---
Anyway back to Jerry's system - if I couldn't run my Apogee Duetta Sigs I'd probably track down some 116Fs. Yesterday they just did everything brilliantly. Which worries me as I have never liked Krells. I heard a KSA 300 a couple of weeks before driving some Ushers. I suspect it is even better than the KAV250 TBH. That plus 116Fs could be truly awesome!

Hmmm, yup. I agree that the Krell is a better amp than the Parasound, although I did enjoy that.

A bigger Krell is on my To Do list, given the success of the 250a. But I think they do have a somewhat darker sound ... ? .... albeit more sophisticated. And they cost multiples of what the 250a set me back.
The box swapper's maxim is "there is ALWAYS something better, or at least interestingly different" - it wouldn't be fun otherwise! :)

[User211]

More on the "never liked Krells". A KSA50 was rubbish driving my Duettas. I'm sure a good valve pre would have helped in that situation. Also, at shows they nearly always seem to be driving Wilsons. That never works IMHO - much prefer Wilsons with big ARCs.

[User211]

But I think they do have a somewhat darker sound ... ? .... albeit more sophisticated.

I think that's the impression I got - might be a bit less lively too. That might NOT be what you want... but until you try...:)

[jandl100]

Hmm, I think I like things more on the brightly lit and lively side! -- has anyone got a Big Krell they'd like to hoik over to the lovely Forest of Dean in deepest Gloucestershire to hear what it sounds like with some very fine MBL speakers?! ;)

[jandl100]

Arrived today, and sounding very nice indeed! :)
Notable, at first listen, for its clarity and presence.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9013_zpsbed4dad7.jpg[/URL]

[Barry]

A lot of dust on that record Jerry! ;)

The Ortofon MC 25FL has many admirers (me included), and I would have one were it not for my collection of other, and possible better, Ortofons.

[jandl100]

Ah well, camera flash is a cruel exposer of undusted records. :eyebrows: - it sounded fine, though.

At least you're not saying my lovely new cart is utter shite and may well explode in a ball of flame. :lol:

[Barry]

Oh no - "utter shite" it ain't! :)

[User211]

U sure? I've had 3 Ortos and I haven:t thought that much of a single one of them LOL!

[jandl100]

U sure? I've had 3 Ortos and I haven:t thought that much of a single one of them LOL!

Yep, sure as sure can be - it's a fab thing. :)

I'll hang on to my Zu / Denon DL-103 until I get my new tt/arm, hopefully next week, and then see how it goes from there.

I reckon you'd lurv it, Justin! Stonking dynamics and clarity. :hairmetal:

[Reffc]

What TT/arm have you settled on Jerry?

[jandl100]

What TT/arm have you settled on Jerry?

Haha! :nono: me no say.

Mayhap a pic or two will appear next week. ;)

[Reffc]

Haha! :nono: me no say.

Mayhap a pic or two will appear next week. ;)


I'll hazard a wild guess...direct drive because I know you like your DDTT's (sounds like an alcohol addiction symptom :lol:)

Technics perchance? Got to be something a little more spesh than the ROTM ones as I can't see you buying a tenapenny version. Hmm:scratch:

Ditto the arm...perhaps a hybrid set-up? Tasty arm on something like an SP15? :eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:

Probably miles out and you've bought an Orbe :lol:

[jandl100]

Dansette ;)

http://www.vintageradio.me.uk/recordplayer/tn_dansette1.jpg

[Reffc]

Dansette ;)

http://www.vintageradio.me.uk/recordplayer/tn_dansette1.jpg

...and there was you saying that you'd never go high end on a vinyl set up again :ner:

[jandl100]

Well, this has been a surprisingly successful experiment.

When I was a lad in my late teens, the Shure V15iii was the cartridge for the young audiophile to own - but several of my friends already had one, and I was inclined to plough my own individual furrow as much 40 years ago as I am now! So I never owned one --- but always wondered. :hmm:

So, 40 years on, I thought I'd finally give one a go :)

The cart arrived in need of a new stylus, so I got one on the cheap - just one of the £20 jobbies of low repute to get an idea of the sound. To be honest, expectations were not high. But the stylus arrived yesterday and was duly installed in an Orty headshell in my new tt/arm combo.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9030_zps01a1a622.jpg

Well.
Well, well, well.
Very, very nice sound. I'm not usually a fan of mm carts, but this is sounding quite splendid. Open, clear, quite detailed and very nicely focussed. And tonally very neutral. No, it doesn't do dynamic scale and depth of field like a MC cart can do, but it's better than most MMs I have heard.
And it has a curious knack of separating LP surface noise from the music - the music is there, nicely formed and 'real', and if the LP is a bit noisy that somehow doesn't intrude. I've not quite heard this effect before.
Surface noise seems much quieter than usual as well.
And I now understand Shure's reputation for exceptional tracking ability.

Suitably encouraged, I've now ordered an Ed Saunders stylus from the US. I should get that in a couple of weeks.

[Reffc]

If you want to really see what it is capable of Jerry, the Jico SAS stylus is the best one to get. It's the only version which is quite possibly better sounding than the original. I had an Ed Saunders one for a while but I found it a little brighter than the NOS ones and not as good. It uses a different cantilever too.

Must admit that despite the poor press compared with the Mk111, I prefer my Mk4 with the NOS He stylus. Still have a Mk111 and may try it again sometime.

[jandl100]

Well, I'm not after the ultimate all in one go - just enjoying an ongoing journey of discovery.

It would be nice to try the Jico stylus sometime. :)

[jandl100]

If you want to really see what it is capable of Jerry, the Jico SAS stylus is the best one to get. It's the only version which is quite possibly better sounding than the original. I had an Ed Saunders one for a while but I found it a little brighter than the NOS ones and not as good. It uses a different cantilever too.

Must admit that despite the poor press compared with the Mk111, I prefer my Mk4 with the NOS He stylus. Still have a Mk111 and may try it again sometime.

It's OK, Paul! - thanks for the PM :) - but no offence was taken by your post!

If the Ed Saunders stylus is a bit brighter, that's fine by me - the Shure/stylus I have at the moment wouldn't mind being perked up a bit and made a bit livelier, it is a bit on the smooth side. I do like 'em nice and perky!

But yes, spend more and (if you are lucky and/or wise) you get more.
It's always been the way. :)

But depending on system synergy and personal taste and just the joy of trying something different that somehow just 'clicks' for you, you can still enjoy the cheaper options.

[Reffc]

It's no surprise if it sounds a little smooth or dull Jerry as it was designed for a low mass tonearm. Using them in medium mass arms often results in a compliance mis-match which dulls the sound slightly. They're also sensitive to capacitance loading.

[jandl100]

Yes, that's what I thought about the arm mass / compliance.
In the end, the sound you get out is all about overall system synergy.

[jandl100]

OK - thread suitably tidied after my over-reaction to Paul's post. ;)
Sorry Paul !!! :o

Here's my new LP spinner.

Perfect? No.
Enjoyable? Yes.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9025_zps61942b2e.jpg

Angus phonomac was the purveyor and, handy as he is with his lathe, he made me up a very nicely turned brass sleeve for the counterweight to allow the arm to accept my massive Zu DL-103 cartridge. That should also be suitable for an Ortofon SPU .... :hmm: !! Maybe I will do that sometime.

On first listen ..... oh dear :( I was very underwhelmed by the sound quality! It was just kind of drab and boring.
But I played around with the setup, as one does. And I found the cause of the unhappiness was the Reso-Mat that sounded so nice and lively on my Mitsubishi tt and my old Pioneer PL-71. It does not suit the SL150ii at all!
On went a massy and very lossy Dumpa mat and then atop that a floppy Herbie mat -- and now all is very well with the world indeed.
That platter rings like a bell when you flick it with a finger nail, but is dead as a doornail when suitably matted.

Excellent! I'm very pleased with it now. A very lively and open sound, fast with quite good dynamic punch, but subtley nuanced as well. The imaging is probably the best thing of all - beautifully focussed and fine 3D layering with my Zu cart. A Shure V15iii also sounds very fine indeed. And a Goldring 900IGC may well be turning up today. :carrot:

The only sadness being that I destroyed my lovely new Ortofon MC25FL cartridge when playing with the mats. I somehow managed to place the stylus on the mat without realising and it bent the cantilever way out of true. :( What a twat. Ah well.

[DSJR]

EsCo can repair, rather than 'just' replace said item, so don't despair Jerry...

[jandl100]

EsCo can repair, rather than 'just' replace said item, so don't despair Jerry...

Well, the cart only cost me about £120 -- I should think the 'repair' would be way more than that, so not really worth it?

[DSJR]

New, it would cost the best part of a grand, and I very much doubt technology has moved on so hugely (digs an even deeper hole and prepares to fall in...:rolleyes:). It was a very good cartridge at the time I remember, but assuming I'm wrong above, I wonder how it would compare to the current Vivo models at around £200 - £300?

[jandl100]

Joyous News ! :) -- I just went to take a pic to share of the skewed cantilever, and it's gone back to its correct position on its own. :scratch:

Playing it now, and it sounds great! :yay:

[Macca]

Cool looking deck Jerry. I'm guessing it sounds very similar to the SL1200, after all why wouldn't it? But I like the Space 1999 red LED display. Red LED is where it's at IMO :)

[jandl100]

Joyous News ! :) -- I just went to take a pic to share of the skewed cantilever, and it's gone back to its correct position on its own. :scratch:

Playing it now, and it sounds great! :yay:

Woo - lookitthat! Plumb dead centre .....

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9033_zps8f3fee80.jpg

.... it really was quite badly skewed to one side. :scratch:

[jandl100]

Cool looking deck Jerry. I'm guessing it sounds very similar to the SL1200, after all why wouldn't it? But I like the Space 1999 red LED display. Red LED is where it's at IMO :)

Yep, similar, but a bit of a different character to it. It's got a wooden base/subframe rather than the plastic / dense rubber that the 1210 uses, and I think that imparts a somewhat more relaxed and less overtly dynamic character to the sound.

Mind you, the AT-1010 arm probably has a lot to do with the sound as well! ;)

Red LEDs --- yeah! :D

[walpurgis]

Glad your MC25FL is OK, they're a lovely cartridge.

[jandl100]

A close-up of the AT-1010 arm ...

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9044_zps198708ea.jpg

[MartinT]

I always liked those AT arms, Jerry. To think that they were available cheaper (as well as the Acos Lustre) in the days when I lusted after an SME 3009-II. Ah well, we learn these things as we go. The SME is ok, but the AT would have lasted me a lot longer.

[jandl100]

Apparently, the AT-1010 was Audio Technica's top of the line model and was made by Audiocraft to Audio Technica's specification - so it's actually a rather fine piece of engineering. :)

[phonomac]

Hello Jerry,
Good news about the MC25FL - now give us your verdict on how it sounds :)

regards

Angus

[jandl100]

Hello Jerry,
Good news about the MC25FL - now give us your verdict on how it sounds :)

regards

Angus

Well, for some reason I am happy to be a serial box-swapper when it comes to pre and power amps, CD players, cables -- but loudspeakers are sorted now and for turntables I would rather just settle down with something for a good long while and just enjoy my charity shop LP hauls.
It's weird, I don't understand it for a moment, but that's just the way I feel about it. :scratch:

So - after finagling around with umpteen cheapish turntables over the last few years, I decided I'd like to get something that bit better and just let it be.
Hence my recent "what have you?" threads here and on the Wam - quite a few offers came in, as you'd expect.
Angus's offer intrigued me .... lid - check! Direct drive - check! Strobe - check! I just don't trust belt drives to keep a subjective steady speed, I'm afraid. Some do, some don't - and then the belt starts to imperceptibly stre-e-etch ..... Anyhow, I just feel happier with direct drive!

.... Interesting tonearm! :hmm: Audio Technica AT-1010. :hmm:
It sure looks the biz. Made by Audiocraft, too. :eek: Some Googling elicited the expected mixture of "love it / don't like it" opinions. I decided to trust to the "love it" side of the argument. :)

I had a nice long chat with Angus on the phone (what a nice guy!) and discussed my choice of cartridges - my Zu DL-103 is a massive beast - about 30g in its Sumiko headshell. Angus offered to make me a brass counterweight sleeve to allow the arm to accommodate the extra mass. Deal! :thumbsup: And a very nice job it is, too!

Soundwise, it is all that I hoped for.

Rock solid speed.

Imaging that is gen-u-ine high end. Laterally precise and very focussed. Extended images aren't crushed to a point - an orchestral violin section is laid out realistically starting from near the left speaker and extending to just left of centre. Depth is good, too, with MC carts - with a solid 3D feel. I'm afraid that ime MM carts just don't do the depth thing anywhere near as well.

Dynamics are good, but would probably not satisfy the Pimped-Techie1210 Brigade who like to be pinned to the rear wall. It's a tad more laid back than that - not wimpy or boring, just a bit more relaxed, less explosive. That suits me just fine, as I feel that lower level dynamic nuances are better portrayed, which is where the musical action is as far as I am concerned.

Bass is great, although heavily cartridge dependent. With my Shure V15iii, the bass is deep and powerful, but a little slack and loose. Slot in the Ortofon MC25FL and there is genuine tautness and a real sense of vibrancy.

Mid and treble presence is superb - I have some lovely harpsichord LPs - there is a real spang to the sound - skeletons copulating on a tin roof, Thomas Beecham called it! :eyebrows: Very fast and precise! Lovely.

So, yup, thanks Angus. :thumbsup:

A lovely turntable and arm, happy with a wide range of cartridges.
Most pleased, I am, most pleased. :cool:

[MartinT]

That's nice, Jerry. One more box you won't be swapping in future. The list is diminishing...

[User211]

Hm I got paranoid about speed on my 25 year old Orbified Gryodec about a year ago. Bet it is out, after all this time, I thought.

Slapped on a strobe disk - and - bang on and no drift.

That TT may be long in the tooth, but it is a good old tooth. I'm hoping it sees me out - I think it almost certainly will. Treated it to some Mobil 1 synthetic oil only yesterday. Vroooooom!

Enjoy your time with the Technics, Jerry.

[jandl100]

Yep, good solid pieces of engineering of the old school, those Gyros. I had one way back when and liked it a lot. A Voyd Point 5 was a significant step up in sq, though.
-- :hmm: -- argh! - no, what am I thinking? I'm not going on the high end turntable boxswap path again. :nono: I'm happier setting my sights lower in that regard.

Oh, and the other part of my tt upgrade was an aforementioned Eastern Electric Minimax valve phonostage. :thumbsup: I'd originally bought a TEAD Groove, but that hummed like b*ggery in my system. Happily the Minimax is silent and also sounds better to my ear.

LPs really do sound rather fine now. Yep, apart from playing 'pass the cartridge', for which the AT arm seems well suited, that'll do me nicely for quite some while. :)

[Marco]

Glad you're loving your Techy, Jerry... :)

I think the SL-150 is a lighter T/T than an SL-1200, overall, and particularly in terms of the construction of the plinth. Could you confirm?

If so, I'm curious how good it is in terms of acoustic feedback... If you place the stylus on a record, turn up the volume, and tap the top of the plinth, can you hear much through the speakers?

Marco.

[jandl100]

Yes, I think my 150ii is a bit lighter in construction. It has a largely wooden baseplate/plinth rather than the dense rubber composite sandwich of the 1210.
I think that affects the character of the sound as well as it's susceptibility to acoustic feedback (see below).

It is still quite a lump, mind you, no featherweight.

If I tap the plinth with stylus down there is a bit of a whoom from the speakers. It's not dead silent. I'm pretty sure my old 1210 was quieter in that regard.

[jandl100]

Looking at the specs - the 1210ii is 12.5KG - the 150ii is 10.2Kg - so not a massive (pardon the pun :eyebrows:) difference, but yep the 1210ii is heavier.

[Marco]

Cheers, it's what I suspected. Interesting that you haven't perceived the lack of isolation against feedback as having a negative effect on the sound?

One would've thought so, but of course the most important thing is that the overall sound of the T/T pleases your ears, and obviously it does, so I guess that the feedback 'issue' is moot :)

What mat are you using on your T/T?

Marco.

[jandl100]

I suspect part of the issue here is our (very) different listening habits. My listening tends not to push the outer dynamic or listening level envelopes :violin:, whereas Marco likes to be pinned to the back wall! :hairmetal:

[jandl100]

Ah - mats. Yep, a bit of a saga, there.

I started off with my ResoMat - and was horribly disappointed with the sound from my new 150ii. :( Bland and drab.

A quick experiment confirmed my suspicion - flick the 150ii platter with a finger nail and tinggggggg ! :doh:

But the solution was readily to hand. On went my hugely lossy Dumpa mat. Yep, much improved. Then on top of that went my lossy Herbie mat. No ting at all now.

The sound was transformed. Sorted! :thumbsup:

[jandl100]

I've not (yet) heard any feedback issues that I recognise as such when playing music. Clean and pure. :)

[Marco]

I suspect part of the issue here is our (very) different listening habits. My listening tends not to push the outer dynamic or listening level envelopes :violin:, whereas Marco likes to be pinned to the back wall! :hairmetal:

Lol! Most likely... I guess that if you don't listen too loudly, the lack of isolation shouldn't be a problem :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Ah - mats. Yep, a bit of a saga, there.

I started off with my ResoMat - and was horribly disappointed with the sound from my new 150ii. :( Bland and drab.

A quick experiment confirmed my suspicion - flick the 150ii platter with a finger nail and tinggggggg ! :doh:

But the solution was readily to hand. On went my hugely lossy Dumpa mat. Yep, much improved. Then on top of that went my lossy Herbie mat. No ting at all now.

The sound was transformed. Sorted! :thumbsup:

Yup, I had a feeling that your choice of mat was going to be crucial! ;)

I suspect that your T/T may also sound rather different, depending on where it is sited, and also respond well to some form of added isolation under the plinth, such as this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISOKINETIK-ISODEK-B1-TURNTABLE-ISOLATION-PLATFORM-/181107699589?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a2adc2f85


Or this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SILENT-STAGE-REGA-ISOLATION-PLATFORM-EXCELLENT-/330926508573?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item4d0cc1ca1d

I'd expect either of those to offer a worthwhile sonic upgrade. Why not give one a go and see? Might be an interesting one! :)

Marco.

[jandl100]

Hmm, OK.

They are just a pretty platform sitting on sorbothane footers?

I have some sorbothane footers in my drawer, I'll have a play with them going under the tt in some fashion later. :)

I generally don't like what they do to the sound of components, finding they overdamp the sound, but such an accusation has been made against my Dumpa mat (with some justification in some implementations!) and that works mighty fine with the 150ii.

[MartinT]

I've heard that said about sorbothane before, Jerry.

I don't believe you can 'overdamp' equipment by use of sorbothane. All you can do is add successive amounts of isolation (like I do by combining the Technifeet with Isonoes) to kill off the resonances that make you think the sound is more lively. What you end up with is insight, finer detail and a lower noise floor.

[jandl100]

Ha ha!! - no way, Martin.

We shall have to disagree on that one! :)

[jandl100]

... I do understand where you are coming from, though.

Perhaps it comes down to the question of how a component "should" sound.

Is it with isolation taken to the ultimate? Is that how the designer voiced the component? - 9 times out of 10, I bet it isn't! ;) Perhaps it was intended to have that extra bit of 'liveliness' in the sound.

[MartinT]

Artificial liveliness = distortion in my book!
Take it away and you get more of everything.

[jandl100]

Well, that doesn't address the designer's intention - but that's fine, I'm happy to disagree!

[MartinT]

Yep, I know where you're coming from. Isn't the Linn LP12 in its fruitbox 'tuned' state such a device, with designed-in liveliness? Probably why I dislike it as it sounds so artificial.

[jandl100]

Umm -- well, yes. But I dislike (actually, detest) the LP12 for that same reason.

So, where are we coming from here? - why the disagreement?

Ultimately, it's the sound that you hear in the room that matters. All else is just a means to that end.
I am happy to accept that you, Martin, have a more finely tuned system than me. We have a very different balance of component / ancilliaries in terms of budget.

So, yes, maybe in my system - which is far more of a 'plunk down and play' device - a little accentuation here or there is a good thing, subjectively, whereas with your relatively high priced regenerator, cables and ancilliaries providing the foundation for your system more of a purist approach is beneficial.
I've invested most of my money in the speakers; quite unbalanced, and it breaks some established 'rules' I am sure, but it does it for me. I've not heard a system I would rather listen to.

It really would be kool if you could pop in sometime, Martin, so you can hear where I am coming from in this. :)

[Marco]

Perhaps it comes down to the question of how a component "should" sound.

Is it with isolation taken to the ultimate? Is that how the designer voiced the component? - 9 times out of 10, I bet it isn't! ;) Perhaps it was intended to have that extra bit of 'liveliness' in the sound.

Yup, but the designer can't allow for the effects of the environment you put the T/T in, especially what it's sitting on... Therefore, that bit is an unknown quantity.

I think we're in danger of focussing too much on the isolation thing, since you're obviously enjoying the sound of the SL-150, but I can certainly guarantee from experience that *any* T/T prone to the level of acoustic feedback you've described, will definitely benefit when that effect is reduced, regardless of how that is achieved :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

It really would be kool if you could pop in sometime, Martin, so you can hear where I am coming from in this. :)

Still in my plans, Jerry. Hopefully sometime this summer when I next go to Malvern to visit family.

[User211]

Just thought I'd state the obvious - a Gyro with an Orbe upgrade kit don't sound like a Gyro anymore. It probably doesn't sound like an Orbe either but should be close to one ish I'd have thought.

TBH I am angry I sold my Gyro platter. It would have been nice to flick back and forth just for the hell of it. Might order one but we'll see if I feel the inclination. Really not spinning much vinyl these days. It's for those "retro" sessions really and TBH my setup is too good for the use it gets. But I'm not going to downgrade it.

It still makes me wonder sometimes as some pressings just sound so astonishingly good!:eyebrows:

[jandl100]

Oops, yep, I forgot you had the Orbe upgrade, Justin.

Me? - I'm playing more vinyl than ever at the moment, and really enjoying it.
For some reason the moving magnet Shure V15iii seems to have taken up residence in the arm :scratch: - it's definitely a bit lower rez than the MCs (Orty MC25FL and Zu DL-103), and doesn't have their imaging capability, but there's something just inherently nice about the sound. I dare say I'll get over it! :lol:

[jandl100]

Oh my gosh!
How cute can an amp get? :scratch:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9046_zps0eb17044.jpg

A nice little Ming Da 18wpc SET amp, with a couple of KT90 - intended for a 2nd system that is probably a couple of months (and about 70 miles) away.
This came up in the Wam classifieds, I'd heard it at a bake-off a few months back and had been impressed, to say the least.
I wasn't planning to start prepping the aforementioned 2nd system yet (best to buy the house first, really! :lol:) - but such a bargain I could not resist! :)

Not ideally suited to my MBL speakers, I plan to use it with some Usher X719 standmounts, but I'll be giving it a spin later on today, for sure!

[hoopsontoast]

Having heard that amp over at a wammers place before, its a bargain if you were looking for a new SET under £1k.
Played Dance/Electronic at higher volumes that I would usually do with some moderate efficient (~89dB) full-range speakers.
Plenty of drive and bass control. Did much better than my Decware in that system :P

[Sovereign]

I'd be interested to hear your take on the Ming Da especially compared to the Yaqin...

[jandl100]

I'd be interested to hear your take on the Ming Da especially compared to the Yaqin...

Hmm, yes, interesting comparison - and they are about the same £ used.

The Minging One has better 3D imaging.
And it had a horribly grainy edgy treble with the stock Chinese 12AU7 valves - a pair of JAN Philips 5963 has sorted that out, though!

The Yacky (in 65wpc UL mode) has faster and more powerful dynamics. Mind you, it has over 3x as much power on hand! It's a bigger and bolder sound all round.
Then again, my relatively inefficient 84dB/W MBL speakers are always going to be a challenge for a low powered (18wpc) SET amp when trying to flex the walls. It'll be fine into my 88dB/W Usher X719 standmounts, which are its intended partners.
The Yack in 30wpc Triode mode is not a contender as far as I am concerned.

The Ming edges the Yack in terms of tonal richness and variety of tonal colour, both are good, though.

Bass on both would surprise many folks who expect valve amp bass to be loose and flabby. ;) It's taut and powerful.

Rez is about the same - i.e. very good.

The Ming has remote control of volume and a pretty power gauge at the front. :D -- and is pukka UK voltage.

The Yack has external setting of power tube bias, the Ming requires you to poke conducting probes into high voltage. :mental:

The Ming is smaller and lighter - and better suited to my needs.

Both are very fine amps, imho, and stupidly good value at used prices. :thumbsup:

[Sovereign]

Thanks Jerry, really helpful !

[jandl100]

Copied from another thread, but relevant here -->

I'm halfway thru trying Vibrapods under my speakers.

See Abso!ute Sound review here (http://www.vibrapod.com/Reviews/tas.htm)

http://www.positive-feedback.com/ambackissues/images/vibrapod_copy.jpg

I ordered two sets of 4, but Analogue Seduction only sent 1 set :doh:, so I have 'pods under the rear of the speakers only at the moment (I have the speakers slightly tilted forward anyway). Hopefully the other set will arrive today.

To my surprise (I'm not a great believer in damping, in general, finding that it often sucks the life out of the sound) the results so far are very positive indeed. My wonderful speakers are a significant bit more wonderful!
Detail and imaging/focus are improved, and the top end is just a tad smoother (in a realistic kind of way). Very pleased, I am, and looking forward to trying the full Vibrapod treatment once the remaining 4 arrive.

[jandl100]

Well, the other set of 4 Vibrapods has arrived and duly installed under my speakers, so they are now entirely supported by 'pods.
The speakers do wobble a bit when prodded. :scratch:

Oops, not a good move.
The sound has now become vague and bloomy, losing it's focus and solidity.
Out they come!
... but the pair supporting the rear of each speaker are definitely staying. :thumbsup:

Now to see if the spare set of 4 Vibrapods can find a happy home under other components .....

[MartinT]

How do they cope with the weight, Jerry?

[jandl100]

How do they cope with the weight, Jerry?

Fine - you can get them in 5 grades of firmness - Model 5 is for supporting 22 to 28 pounds (lb) per Vibrapod. My speakers are 45Kg / 100lb. Spot on!

-- you'd need to double them up for monster speakers like yours, though, Martin!

[electric beach]

'mornin' Jerry

I use Vibrapods under a Vertex Targa distribution block, where despite the unit's instruction to be sited on it's rubber feet they transform the presentation. They give me more "out of the box" air and a freedom to the sound. This can be at the expense of some directness and perceived attack, but when the balance is right with other system settings then this decoupling performs a function that I haven't been able to reproduce any other way.

I don't think you'll keep the partial decoupling under your speakers once you get used to it though, you tend to notice the benefits first and then the negatives later. They don't work the same for the AG1500 unfortunately, RDC cones or rubber pads seem better and I haven't been able to get on with them under any electronics.

[jandl100]

Hi Steve! :)


'mornin' Jerry

I use Vibrapods under a Vertex Targa distribution block, where despite the unit's instruction to be sited on it's rubber feet they transform the presentation. They give me more "out of the box" air and a freedom to the sound. This can be at the expense of some directness and perceived attack, but when the balance is right with other system settings then this decoupling performs a function that I haven't been able to reproduce any other way.


Yes, "out of the box" describes the Vibrapod improvement well, but in my system it goes too far with full 'podding (is that a new verb?) and it becomes vague and amorphous, definitely a case of one step forward and about 5 steps back!
It's quite like taking a seat at the rear of a concert hall - I prefer to be a lot further forward.


I don't think you'll keep the partial decoupling under your speakers once you get used to it though, you tend to notice the benefits first and then the negatives later.

Well, time will tell - the partial 'podding is working very well for me at the moment. It's just a matter of perceived balance and personal preference. I can well imagine many folk enjoying the full "out of the box" airiness, but I like things to sound more focussed.
But yes, I agree, often the positives can get outweighed by longer term irritations that can develop with any change.

[electric beach]

I find vibration control on the power supply to have a similar effect but in a more balanced way. Try your AG, you might like it in your system. I remember being shocked by the Stillpoints treatment Shuggie posted under his power conditioner, but I've heard for myself now. My presentation is distinctly and sometimes frighteningly Front Row :eek:

[brian2957]

Steve , I have an AG500 . Can you please tell me what you are using to support it at the moment and what are the improvements / benefits . Ta .

[electric beach]

Brian, I use 3 RDC cones. As we are talking about vibration effects here, it is quite system dependent. Vibrapods may well suit you, as Jerry has illustrated you can have too much of a good thing and I haven't tried mine under the AG but without those under the distribution block.

Valerie summed up the effect as being more 3D.

[brian2957]

Thanks Steve , I tried some Foculpods under my gear and didn't like the effect . I was just wondering as I have some oak cones lying around somewhere . Think I'll leave things as they are for now :) Ta.

[MartinT]

Jerry - I won't change my speakers from cones because I love the impactful presentation they give. I was just interested in how they work for you.

Steve - I'm looking for supports to go under the P10 regenerator but I have very little room so am looking at RDC3 or possibly RDC5 (I'll have to measure how much room I have in its current bay). What do you think?

[electric beach]

Vibrapods for sure Martin, especially as your unit has a bit of weight. And you know someone with a few spare! ;)

[jandl100]

Vibrapods for sure Martin, especially as your unit has a bit of weight. And you know someone with a few spare! ;)

Hey, hang on -- I'll be trying them under my AG1500 later. ;)

I've now tried the Vibrapods under power amp, cdp - and nope, I don't like the changes. They send me further back in the hall, which is not where I want to be.
To be fair to them, I think my system sounds pretty damn stunning at the moment! - so any changes may will tip the overall shebang away from near-optimum, even if they are technically beneficial.
It's the sound in the room that matters - and that results from all the interactions leading up to it - all of that is just a means to an end!

[brian2957]

Can you please let us know how you get on with the AG1500 Jerry.

[Yomanze]

Hey, hang on -- I'll be trying them under my AG1500 later. ;)

I've now tried the Vibrapods under power amp, cdp - and nope, I don't like the changes. They send me further back in the hall, which is not where I want to be.
To be fair to them, I think my system sounds pretty damn stunning at the moment! - so any changes may will tip the overall shebang away from near-optimum, even if they are technically beneficial.
It's the sound in the room that matters - and that results from all the interactions leading up to it - all of that is just a means to an end!

Interesting perspective I prefer coupling strategies with equipment, which is why I use Mana and light spiked speaker stands. I find the sound is more 'live' and in the hall as you put it. Squishy things deaden the sound for me...

[jandl100]

.... Squishy things deaden the sound for me...

Yep, that's usually my thought, too.

Vibrapods under half a speaker may well be an exception that tests that rule, but as Steve has said, time will tell if it's a change I want to stay with.

[jandl100]

Interesting perspective I prefer coupling strategies with equipment, which is why I use Mana and light spiked speaker stands.

I agree with that, too.

Light stands / Epos. Yup.

But a pair of ProAc Response 2 I used to own demanded heavyweight stands if they were to sound anywhere near their best.

Horses for courses!

[electric beach]

Exactly Jerry, they're a tool for tuning a system and those pesky vibrations run around in an interactive way. Block a vibration path at one point and it can effect another. I find that special 'feet' rarely work for me under components and I draw the conclusion that the device was tuned with the supplied coupling and therefore I'm always skewing the tonal balance. An isolation platform has worked better for me but some time ago I stripped out the whole pack of cards and the overall result was much better balanced.

Obviously all these components are physically connected, and inter connected, by their power cords, so attention to power supply support seems to give a considerable yet balanced improvement.

OK, just tried a test...

1. Taking 2 Pods away from Vertex - immediately brought more attack and definition but a shouty quality.
2. Put 3 Pods under AG without any under the Vertex. Better, but basically a weaker version of the same effect.
3. 3 pods under the AG and 1 under the Vertex - mmm, could be a nice balance.

To be fair, I'm not taking any notice of the important weight recommendations for the pods to work properly (I probably have too little weight if anything) and the AG already sits on a rack whereas the Vertex sits on a sprung wooden floor.

[jandl100]

Can you please let us know how you get on with the AG1500 Jerry.

Whoops. Surprise time! :eek: ... again. :doh:

After their uber-floaty affect on my power amp and cdp I wasn't expecting much success from sticking Vibrapods under the AG1500 regenerator.
-- Wrong!! :lol:

Bloody hell - everything sounds more organised somehow, more under control and more purposeful, more lucid and better defined.
Not what I intended for the 2nd set of 4, but they ain't goin' nowhere! :D

I'm using 3 of them; 2 front, 1 centre rear. I might try with 4 later.

Will they do the same for your AG1500 in your system? I have no idea.
Would Vibrapods intended for lighter components be the same / better / worse? (I have Model 5 'pods, for the heaviest grade of component, intended for my 45Kg speakers). I have no idea.

They're £24 a set of 4 - well, worth investigation I would say.
eBay link (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290919867459?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)

[brian2957]

Cheers Jerry . I have a set of Foculpods lying around somewhere . I'll try them and post back.

[brian2957]

You may well have hit on something here Jerry . I placed four of these under my AG500 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DEFLEX-AUDIO-FOCULPODS-ISOLATION-DAMPING-PADS-FIT-NAIM-ARCAM-LEEMA-SONY-/150823562971?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item231dc8eedb
Initial impressions are similar to yours plus an improvement in focus . I didn't expect that . Requires further further investigation methinks.:eyebrows:

[electric beach]

Well, I didn't intend to spend the day tweaking - cheers Jerry ;)

I've settled on 2 Vibrapods under the AG1500 but with a third support of a Stands Unique brass/carbon fibre spike. This follows the Vertex idea of 2 compliant feet (to not transfer energy) and a single focussed exit point to drain vibrations - and they are lot cheaper than the Vertex option.

I think this is essentially what you've done with two Pods under your speakers Jerry - focussed the energy drain. And decoupling was a step too far. Decoupling the power conditioner may have stopped it becoming a vibration exit point, killed vibration cycles in the unit, sent vibrations down the power cable - who knows. It's so system dependent and all Vibrapods doesn't work in mine.

Happy we've all had a productive day and got a better sound than we had yesterday! :lol:

[brian2957]

Interesting observations Steve . I may try one or two oak cones under the AG500 when I've become accustomed to the changes brought about by the addition of the Foculpods . Nice improvement so far .

[MartinT]

Well chaps, I've done some measuring and I have a total clearance of 26mm (top plate to underside of rack, bottom of chassis to bottom of rack). The RDC 3 cones have a height of 23mm. So I've bought a set of three and will try them under the P10. For about £75 I thought they were worth the punt and I will report my findings in a new thread.

Thanks for the pointer, I was partly motivated by Hugo's findings of how well his P5 responds to supports.

[jandl100]

Good-oh, chaps!


...Initial impressions are similar to yours plus an improvement in focus .

Yep, I think that's what I meant by "better defined" - so we are pretty much in 100% agreement, I think. :)

Hmm, Steve mentioned his brass/carbon fibre spikes -- I've got some tucked away somewhere, I'll have to dig them out .....

Good fun, eh, what! :D

[brian2957]

Hah ! What What . Interesting way to spend a few hours :lol:

[jandl100]

Yep, you're right, we're all bonkers :mental: :eyebrows:

[brian2957]

If I ever get out of this padded cell you'll be in trouble for suggesting that matey :lol:

[Ali Tait]

So you've Sorbothaned the whole room now have you??

[brian2957]

Hey that's an idea mate :eek: I'll be back a week on Tuesday :lol:

[Effem]

Good-oh, chaps!



Yep, I think that's what I meant by "better defined" - so we are pretty much in 100% agreement, I think. :)

Hmm, Steve mentioned his brass/carbon fibre spikes -- I've got some tucked away somewhere, I'll have to dig them out .....

Good fun, eh, what! :D

Get "Chezi's balls" out and try them :eyebrows:

[Sovereign]

I have oak cones under everything, to me it makes the bass more defined and the top end sparkles. The best effect is that instruments just seem to hang in mid air.
I have never tried anything else, I have a spare pillow, I should see what difference that makes under my amps

[jandl100]

I have never tried anything else, I have a spare pillow, I should see what difference that makes under my amps

Be careful about blocking ventilation holes on the bottom of any amps - that might overheat them. ;)

[realysm42]

I've got RDC cones of varying types and combinations under everything in the system, except speakers.

When I had bookshelves, I put their spikes under the stand wow, what a difference! That was the single thing that really got me into trying other tweaks it worked so well! It'll be interesting to see what you find, Martin.

[jandl100]

Well, well - a "Sound Dead" steel platter has somehow made its way onto my Techie SL-150ii.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9100_zps769512e3.jpg

Quite a change in approach from the lossy mats I have been using with great success.
At first blush this is a very appealing sound - clearer with more solid imaging, a bit faster, but maybe a little 2D?
Lots more listening to do. :)

At the moment it's just plunked down onto the bare platter - might be interesting to try a lossy mat underneath it ...

[Sovereign]

Be careful about blocking ventilation holes on the bottom of any amps - that might overheat them. ;)

Errr..... I was joking 😳

[jandl100]

:lol: fair enough James - but there are a lot of loony people on AOS, including myself, so I couldn't be sure ....

[brian2957]

Shucks , I was waiting for you to post your findings James .:lol:

[Ali Tait]

The amp fell asleep...

[Sovereign]

I tried it and the sound was too fluffy for me

[brian2957]

:)

[Sovereign]

:)

Have you wired up your BPS yet?

[brian2957]

Don't have one mate . I use the AG500 , which I'm very pleased with . Gary ( Gazjam ) has a new BPS . He's just getting the wire / parts together to get it going . When it's had some use we will compare the AG500 V the BPS . I believe you have both James . What's your take on them ?

[Sovereign]

. I believe you have both James . What's your take on them ?

GREAT!
The AG1500 makes a great sounding hifi, the addition of the BPS made a HUGE difference! I don't know if it's the BPS that made such a big difference or the fact that I use them both together, I won't now until I take the AG1500 out of the chain.

[Ali Tait]

Be interested in what you hear when you do James.

[brian2957]

Interesting James . When Ali brought his home brewed BPS to one of our mini bake offs it was a bit of a revelation . For my part I wasn't entirely happy with some of the safety aspects of the BPS after doing some reading , so I went for the AG500 . However Gary ,in consultation with Ali , seems to have overcome these problems and his bespoke unit appears to be well protected. So may be one for the future James when funds become available.
Look forward to your findings mate.

[Ali Tait]

Mine is perfectly safe Brian, or at least as safe as I can make it, and believe me, I am paranoid in these matters, sadly having been to seven funerals of colleagues killed at work in the last 25 years.

[brian2957]

Understood mate . Looking forward to hearing Garys BPS when it's up and running . If it's half as good as yours it'll be a corker .:)

[Ali Tait]

I'm interested in how closely the secondaries match on the Airlink units. Can anyone measure for me please?

[Ali Tait]

Understood mate . Looking forward to hearing Garys BPS when it's up and running . If it's half as good as yours it'll be a corker .:)

Aye,it did well at Gary's, but then I expected that, given where he lives. It made less of an improvement here, though still an improvement.

[Sovereign]

I'm interested in how closely the secondaries match on the Airlink units. Can anyone measure for me please?

Spell it out four me, what do you want measured?

[jandl100]

:popcorn:

Oi!
You lot!!

Fook off from my thread, willya! ;)

[Tim]

:lol:

http://www.topos.ru/sites/default/files/article_archive/0211/09_13.jpg

[jandl100]

Jeez - it's like a lot of friendly neighbours marching uninvited into your living room, taking the best seats on the sofa and helping themselves to tea and my fave chocolate biscuits. :lol:

[Firebottle]

Got any real ale in the cool room? Count me in ;)

[jandl100]

Got any real ale in the cool room? Count me in ;)

Nah - if booze was mentioned, I'd never shift the buggers! :drinking: :comatose: :eyebrows:

[Tim]

Are the chocolate biscuits back here Jerry, I can't find them?

:sofa:

[jandl100]

Nah - the boogers have scoffed them all already, they're heading for the freezer now to get at the pizzas. :(

[jandl100]

This lovely thing arrived yesterday ...

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9134_zpsdb65bb35.jpg

A low mileage Ortofon Rondo Red. -- the camera flash lightens up the red colour and highlights the texturing - it's rather blander in real life!
It sounds very yummy - to my surprise the midrange is rich and supple, if memory can be trusted this is a rather more 'musical' and relaxed presentation than my old Orty Rondo Bronze (RIP :deceased:), the top end, too, is more, well, analogue than that rather analytical sounding device.

Jerry Towers is now a cartridge-rich zone, I reckon .....

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9144_zps88c9e75b.jpg

:mental:
-- although I am well aware, not as mental as many of you! :eyebrows:

From the left; Shure V15iii (still awaiting the arrival of an Ed Saunders stylus), Zu-DL103, Orty Rondo Red and Orty MC25FL.

Favourites? - well, new toys are always fun, and the Rondo Red was in residence last night.
It replaced the V15iii - there's something about that cart that is just plain nice to listen to. .... :scratch:

I want to keep them all -- and play them all at the same time. :D Which is a bit of a challenge, really. :lol:

[DSJR]

I wish Shure had continued with the HE and MR styli for the V15 III, since they really did add some more delicacy and almost 'sweetness' to the party in a manner far more than 'just' a diamond change IMO.. The Ed saunders elliptical should be good to go I think, as it sounds more like the original than the Jico SAS does.

[jandl100]

Stick the V15iii in a medium mass arm like mine, rather than a light arm which is a better technical match, and the gentle treble roll-off that ensues gives sweetness a-plenty -- a very "nice" sound, imo, which was a bit of a surprise. I could listen to it for hours, and often do.

Am much looking forward to trying the Ed Saunders stylus.

[jandl100]

It's been quite a while since my last update, and many changes have of course occurred. :)

So, here's the system today, fronted by one of my MBL 116F speakers ...

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/600x400q90/89/zdqo.jpg

And a close-up of the electronics ...

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/450x300q90/560/kswe.jpg

An AG1500 mains regenerator, feeding all but the high powered power amp.

A Vincent CD S7 has been doing sterling service for a few months, recently augmented by a Jolida FX3 DAC.

The Restek Consens pre has been here for a year or so. A medium/long term keeper for sure.

And my latest acquisition, a Chapter Audio Couplet 250S power amp - 225wpc into 8 ohms. Doubling into 4 ohms.

I have to say that I am most pleased, most pleased, with the sound. :thumbsup:

[stupinder]

Looking great, Jerry!

[MartinT]

And my latest acquisition, a Chapter Audio Couplet 250S power amp - 225wpc into 8 ohms. Doubling into 4 ohms.

Now then, there's a story behind Chapter Audio and I'm struggling to remember it. Only heard their gear once at a show and didn't form an impression.

So has the Parasound gone then, Jerry?

[jandl100]

Hi Martin :)

iirc, Chapter Audio was formed by ex-Chord chaps - so I suspect my new toy would be rather to your liking!

The lovely Parasound exited the JANDL100 demesne yonks ago! - well, early 2013, I think - replaced by a Krell KAV-250a power amp, you may recall, for which I was much chastised by our own Dave DSJR :eyebrows:. Lovely amp, in an upfront kind of way. I enjoyed it muchly. After a while, though, a dalliance with an eBay sourced Atoll AM80 power amp saw the Krell going to a most happy new owner. Then a Restek Challenger (currently on the spares shelf, thanks to the Chapter) - lovely amp, really good, and stupidly good for the money (£400). The only reason for its retirement was the influx of new hifi budget monies on Jan 1. :D

I put out an 'amp wanted' ad here and on the Wigwam for a more "serious" - i.e. expensive - amp and among many others was offered the Chapter amp at a rather good price (£1.1k for an as-new £6k rrp amp :thumbsup:). I'd had previous experience of an older Chapter amp (the Two +) via Steve 12bears, and had almost been won over to it then, superb in many ways but an overly creamy midrange had dampened my enthusiasm. Reports on the newer Chapters had implied this characteristic no longer applied, so I risked the Couplet amp - not really a risk at that price! - and it has turned out to be excellent and a fine match for my speakers. :) I'm still playing with cables to settle it in properly - like the high power Krell it seems to enjoy a MusicWorks mains cable straight from the wall (rather than via my AG1500 regenerator) from my current (pun intended) collection.

The Chapter Couplet 250S is a class D design and is current production http://www.chapteraudio.co.uk/products/hardback/couplet-250s/

[MartinT]

Ah - Chapter coming from ex-Chord employees, that was what I was trying to remember. It may well be to my liking, Jerry! Class D, though, so not really like the Chord's topology.

I had thought the Parasound was a keeper, much like the MBLs, back when you brought it over. Should have remembered your box-swapping tendencies :)

[jandl100]

I had thought the Parasound was a keeper, much like the MBLs, back when you brought it over. Should have remembered your box-swapping tendencies :)

Well, 18 months or so - that's a keeper by my standards! :)

-- mind you, the MBLs are coming up for 4 years now. :scratch:

[User211]

Get the matching CDP and spray the MBLs silver;)

Good amps those Chapters - best I've heard driving M&Ds - but then they were/maybe still are their show demo speakers.

[jandl100]

Slight system update ....

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/577/41cc.jpg

My Restek Consens pre-amp is now 'resting' - I've gone and bought a MF FBP A1 pre-amp - again. I had one a while back as some here may recall. I didn't go off it, I just fancied a change as one does, or at least as this particular boxswapper does :mental::). A great pre-amp for silly-low money - it cost me less than £400 del.
Jake / lordmortlock of this parish has been nagging me occasionally about that pre for ages - he reckons my system was at its best when the MF was in the loop with good old Halo Hal (the big Parasound Halo A21 power amp).
No, I shan't be getting another Parasound - the Chapter is better in every way for me.

It's interesting with the MF pre inserted - a rather fuller and more 'musical' tonality than the Restek once I'd messed a bit with mains cables (it seems to like the thin MusicWorks mains lead), but the imaging went to pot - a bit vague and blowsy. So after a little while I shoved the MBL speakers a little closer together, aha - yes, much more focussed now. I'll stay with this for a while, tweaking away, and see how I go.
A recently acquired pair of MCRU Signature i/c cables are also doing sterling work.
Slight speaker cable change as well - with the MF pre the system was a bit brightly lit, so rather than shotgunned Tellurium TQ Black & XLO Pro600, I now just have the TQ Black hooked up. Sorted.

Also, above the AG1500 mains regenerator, a Pioneer DV-636D DVD player used as a CD transport (my old Vincent CD S7 is now with a very happy new owner) - surely these old Pioneer DVD players are among the best CDTs on the planet! :thumbsup:

Oh, and an AudioQuest Eagle Eye digital cable has made a surprisingly large improvement to the fidelity.

Certainly a very enjoyable sound.

[MartinT]

Jerry - in your kit swaps, have you ever come across Red Dragon amps? They look most interesting.

[jandl100]

No - I've never even heard of them - they do look interesting!
http://www.reddragonaudio.com/collections/amplifiers/products/m1000-mkii
550w into 8 ohms .... :eek:

[MartinT]

Indeed, Rowland use the exact same B&O ICEpower modules and others, such as Mark Levinson, Halcro and NAD, use similar class D designs.

The Red Dragon amps look like sufficient bargains that they could be worth a try. I may look them up when I'm in the USA in August.

[Ali Tait]

At that sort of price, I'd be looking at the NC400 modules from Hypex, they seem to get great reviews generally.

[MartinT]

Who builds them into finished products, Ali?

[hoopsontoast]

Interesting to keep up Jerry :)

If you ever look for another CD Player, give the Sony S9000ES a go, they are a bit of a bargain for ~£100-£150 and I really love mine. :eyebrows:

[Ali Tait]

Who builds them into finished products, Ali?

Don't know of anyone Martin, but been told by someone who's ears I trust that they are very good indeed. They do power supplies too, so it would be pretty simple to put an amp together

[MartinT]

The thing is, for power amps I'd be wanting a power supply of the calibre of, say, Paul Hynes' SR-7 or similar. Add the cost of one of those with a pair of Hypex modules and the Red Dragons are starting to look not at all expensive for what they offer. And while I could build a power amp using modules no problem (hell, I've built amplifiers from component parts and made my own circuit boards), I could not attain the kind of build quality or finish of a good commercial product.

If I ever get a chance to try the Red Dragons, I will jump on the opportunity.

[User211]

I had a Hypex N400 amp in my system, with a JFET input stage. It was a prototype, but it was bloody good.

[Ali Tait]

Aye, heard good things about them. Like to hear them sometime.

[jandl100]

Boxswap update!

here's my system as of now ....

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/835/ieg5.jpg

The box on the left ready for shipping is the Chapter Audio Couplet 250S amp about to be sent off to its new owner in The Netherlands.
The original Wigwam owner suspected it would be "too refined" for me, and after an initial honeymoon period that has sadly turned out to be the case. It's not quite snappy and 'present' enough for my unsophisticated tastes. It's just a teensy bit boring in my system, for me.

So -- just peeking out from behind the Jolida DAC on the right is an Amptastic Mini-T.
Let me tell you, the system has regained its old and much loved 'palpable presence' and I am revelling in my music once again.
The wee fella does seem to need a top notch active pre-amp, like my Restek, to give of its best, though. It really brings out the t-amp's best qualities, imo.

Sure, it doesn't have the slam and control in the bass (although it is far from bad), and that is missed to a degree, but in every other way I don't miss the £6k rrp Chapter amp one little bit.
There's just something that sounds "right" about the Mini-T for me - it's the one piece of electronics (of all the many dozens I have owned) that is a pleasure to return to again and again - it makes me feel I am in the presence of live music making. :thumbsup:

[MartinT]

As you like the Mini-T so much (I like mine in my study system), perhaps you should seek out an ICEpower or Hypex power amp of greater potency?

[jandl100]

I have a 200wpc t-amp due for delivery tomorrow. :)

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?30567-Stonkingly-Good-Power-Amp-for-sale-Williams-Audio-£200-plus-postage

[MartinT]

That should do the trick!

It's not exactly, erm, pretty :eek:

[Ali Tait]

No, but sounds pretty good. It passed through my hands a while ago.

[nat8808]

That should do the trick!

It's not exactly, erm, pretty :eek:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6138/6006592190_7d43f222a2.jpg

Not pretty but I like the industrial-ness of it for sure! I like the well thoughtout design too with the heatsink in the centre with what looks like connection passing through the centre - guess the smaller section is for the amps, larger for the PSUs. The red screen print on the front is almost Bauhaus too (like Blaupunkt's original bauhaus design)

[Reffc]

Look forward to hearing your impressions Jerry. 35 miles down the road, there's been some changes too ;)

[tubehunter]

Yes, it was a case of form follows function. We don't listen with our eyes.

I enjoyed building it. Did some unorthodox tricks with the power supply on that one.

Duncan

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/big%20tripath/IMG_4945_zpsc797c307.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/halx00/media/big%20tripath/IMG_4945_zpsc797c307.jpg.html)

[nat8808]

So -- just peeking out from behind the Jolida DAC on the right is an Amptastic Mini-T.
Let me tell you, the system has regained its old and much loved 'palpable presence' and I am revelling in my music once again.
The wee fella does seem to need a top notch active pre-amp, like my Restek, to give of its best, though. It really brings out the t-amp's best qualities, imo.

Palpable presence is something that gets me going when it happens.. is that the same palpable presence as yours? Can you try to explain what you mean?

For me its an impact to percusive sounds which have fast enough beginings and endings that those sounds could well be in the room with you, somewhere..

As a generalisation, I often feel that to get that you need an especially rigid and fast mid driver (with cones) or well made dome mid or of course those on the MBLs probably move pretty fast due to their design.

Is the Amptastic particularly good or any old T-amp is similar? I've had a Bantam before but not with my Acoustic Energy AE2 Pros which give much more of that palpability..

[nat8808]

What amp modules are in it? (I'm jumping ahead to Jerry singing it's praises and me fancying trying out something similar).

I like the way you took the effort to countersink the bolts too - no lazy allen bolts sticking out all over the place (was that your pre-amp too that someone on hifiwigwam sold - ad where I took the photo from - with the lazy allen bolts sticking out?)

[MartinT]

What amp modules are in it?

I was about to ask the same thing. So I will!

[nat8808]

I was about to ask the same thing. So I will!

Go on then!

Do it! Do it! Do it!

[tubehunter]

A pair of genuine stereo Tripath EB-TA2022 evaluation boards ver 4.0, configured in bridged mode.


http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/Tripath/mXwtryw.pdf

http://g.dubuc.free.fr/pdf/TA2022.pdf

[jandl100]

Palpable presence is something that gets me going when it happens.. is that the same palpable presence as yours? Can you try to explain what you mean?

For me its an impact to percusive sounds which have fast enough beginings and endings that those sounds could well be in the room with you, somewhere..

As a generalisation, I often feel that to get that you need an especially rigid and fast mid driver (with cones) or well made dome mid or of course those on the MBLs probably move pretty fast due to their design.

Is the Amptastic particularly good or any old T-amp is similar? I've had a Bantam before but not with my Acoustic Energy AE2 Pros which give much more of that palpability..

Last question first - It's the Amptastic Mini-T that does it for me. I've heard loads of class D / t-amps - most do not have palpable presence.

Which brings me on to what I mean by pp ....
It's an immediacy, a liveness, a solidity, a ... well, palpability. A feeling of a real instrument in the room making the sounds within a 3D acoustic space. There's a jump-factor, a sense of musical pizzaz.

I guess it's a combination involving transparency, speed, the accurate tracking of low level as well as large scale dynamics.
For me, it's what makes reproduced music really come alive.

Most amps of my experience, regardless of cost, don't have it.
The Mini-T does.
Sadly, I don't think that Amptastic make that model anymore. They are bringing out a new model called the Mini-1.
The good news is that I have a finalised pre-release Mini-1 in my system now. :eyebrows:
The even better news is that, based so far on a very small amount of listening (3 minutes so far!) it does indeed have palpable presence at least as good as the Mini-T. :thumbsup:

[nat8808]

Cool, that's what makes things real and exciting to listen to for me too and why I always feel there's something missing with some err, "classic" speaker designs people pay lots of money for - they're all sweet and nice and all but lack some 3D reality.

Think I've called it "Tactility" before.. like you could reach out and touch something because the object sounds so solid.

I swapped between my Celestion SL700s and AE2 Pros a few times many months ago and each did their own thing with the SL700s very open, airy and spacious but the AE2s doing the delicious tactility thing even though a little darker. So I've ended up keeping the AE2s in use - all with a rather random integrated by a company called Higher Fildelity from about the 90s about which I can't find any info (not the integrated anyway).

[jandl100]

Yes, it was a case of form follows function. We don't listen with our eyes.

I enjoyed building it. Did some unorthodox tricks with the power supply on that one.

Duncan

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/big%20tripath/IMG_4945_zpsc797c307.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/halx00/media/big%20tripath/IMG_4945_zpsc797c307.jpg.html)


What amp modules are in it? (I'm jumping ahead to Jerry singing it's praises and me fancying trying out something similar).


:thumbsup: - a very nice, amp, very nice indeed. Powerful, lucid, controlled, articulate. And yes, a good helping of palpable presence.

What's a guy called tubehunter doing making such a fine sounding class D solid state amp? :eyebrows:
And I think it looks just fine, Duncan. :)

[Colin Wonfor]

A pair of genuine stereo Tripath EB-TA2022 evaluation boards ver 4.0, configured in bridged mode.


http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/Tripath/mXwtryw.pdf

http://g.dubuc.free.fr/pdf/TA2022.pdf

I see you solved the bass pumping with large caps, I did it with a SMPSU and a choke to dump the energy back to the sagging PSU, It worked well, also I used RM cores in the amp OP choke to reduce the winding enter radiation that you get from toroidals.
Nice work solid case. I like it.

[User211]

I'm just flummoxed as to why you like those T-amps with your speakers Jezzer. The Graaf 5050 and the Krell 250a were to my ears so far ahead... miles ahead.

It takes all sorts, and we agree on a lot of stuff, but that one has me puzzled.

Just sayin', like.:)

[jandl100]

I just love t-amps! :eek: Well, some of them. The best of 'em just sound more like real music to me than most valve or tranny amps, more palpable presence or tactility as Nat would have it.
We do have different musical genres as our main focus, Justin, maybe it's summat to do with that.
Funny old world, eh! :)

-- I do rather fancy that you'd like the new Williams Audio box - no lack of power there to ruffle your trouser legs. :D -- maybe I'll bring it round to you?

[User211]

Defo if you still have it when the trip will be worthwhile. Those new speakers are getting closer to reality...:eyebrows:

[jandl100]

A couple of years or so ago I obtained a Cyrus CD8X CD player in a swap deal.
Cyrus? - I didn't want the darn thing but I did want to move my less-well-known kit on and thought the Cyrus would be easy to sell on.
Well, blow me down - it sounded quite excellent! The "One Word Review" of the sonics would have been 'beautiful' - lovely full midrange tone and soundstage to die for.
Quelle surprise.
The bass was taut but a bit lightweight, buy hey, who around here is perfect? :)

So I've been kind of wondering about trying other Cyrus kit since then ....

.... and these arrived at Jerry Towers over the last couple of days.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/138/sap0.jpg

A Cyrus PRE XPd pre-amp/DAC with bolt on PSU box. About £1850-worth at full retail. I paid less, used. :)

The pre box itself only arrived yesterday, and 1st impressions were not good, just kind of bland and uninteresting. :(
-- but I left it playing and after an hour or so it started to come together.
Maybe it had been left unplayed for a while, or maybe it does like to be warmed up. The Cyrus instruction booklet does advise to leave it at least on standby.

The onboard DAC section is pretty good, but no real match for my tube-rolled Jolida. No real surprise there, I guess.
And (sadly, imo!) the PSX-R add-on PSU box really does make a worthwhile improvement to the rez and image focus.

Anyway, by the end of the evening I was really enjoying it - I'll wheel out some big musical guns today and see how it copes. :rock:

And there are another couple of amps arriving today! :carrot: Boxswapper Ho !!

[jandl100]

The Cyrus pre is already on gardening leave. :eyebrows:

This arrived today ....

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/208/h2fy.jpg

A vintage Technics SU-MA10 integrated amp - all 25Kg of it!

I have to say, it sound fantastic on 1st listen.

I am sorely tempted to get this lovely vintage bit of kit properly serviced and fettled - any reccies for who could do this?

[Reffc]

Try Will at Radford Revival Jerry. He'd do an excellent job.

[jandl100]

Thanks Paul - advice from elsewhere is that the Techie is young enough and quality enough that all is probably AOK anyway. What do you reckon? I'll see how it gets on.

System as of just now ...
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/811/xp41.jpg

Famous last words, of course, but I rather think this is settled now for some time to come. :) Well, maybe there'll be some tube rolling and cable tweaking! ;)

A Pioneer DV-717 DVD player feeds Red Book CD digital data to my Jolida FX3 DAC with Sylvania 6072A valves fitted, via an AudioQuest Eagle Eye digital i/c.

The Restek Consens pre-amp allows remote control of the Technics SU-MA10 integrated amp, cabled up with MCRU Sig i/c. The Restek is transparent enough, and I do like to keep my bum in the chair. :)

XLO Pro 600 speaker cables then feed the signal to my MBL 116F speakers.

Power is regenerated by an AG1500 and fed to all who need it by a mixture of Nordost Magus, MusicWorks and Isotek EVO3 mains cables.

Yep, it sounds very nice thanks!

I tried the Technics amp's onboard DAC, and that is surprisingly close (very close!) to the Jolida in the mids and treble, but is quite woolly sounding in the bass, sadly, so the Jolida stays. :thumbsup:

[User211]

I still haven't tried the M&Ds with the Restek - will do so later today.

My Luxman is miles nicer than that Techie any day...:ner:

[jandl100]

My Luxman is miles nicer than that Techie any day...:ner:

What's it weigh, then?
Can it beat 25Kg? :eyebrows:

[Marco]

Yes, he's put a brick inside it.... :eyebrows:

My Copper amp weighs 40kg. Are we having a 'fat bastard' amp contest, then? :D

Marco

[Effem]

The Cyrus pre is already on gardening leave. :eyebrows:

This arrived today ....

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/208/h2fy.jpg

A vintage Technics SU-MA10 integrated amp - all 25Kg of it!

I have to say, it sound fantastic on 1st listen.

I am sorely tempted to get this lovely vintage bit of kit properly serviced and fettled - any reccies for who could do this?

Lovely looking beastie :eyebrows:

Shame about yer odd knob Jerry :lol:

[walpurgis]

Shame about yer odd knob Jerry :lol:

Bit unfortunate having an "odd knob". Quite common I've been told. :eek:

[jandl100]

Well, at my age, you're grateful for any knob that works. :D

[Marco]

Do you still polish it, though? That's the question! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[User211]

What's it weigh, then?
Can it beat 25Kg? :eyebrows:

Don't be ridiculous. Everyone knows the best amps have tone controls and quadzillions of switches. Weight? Pah!!!

[nat8808]

How does the techie compare to the Williams? (Whisper in my ear if the answer might offend Mr Williams...)

[jandl100]

How does the techie compare to the Williams? (Whisper in my ear if the answer might offend Mr Williams...)

They are both very good - no, excellent - amps.
I don't plan to sell the Williams amp (yet) - but there is something about a naturalness to the Techie that is just plain "yeah, that's how it should go".
The Williams is a tad better at deep bass slam & control, but doesn't maybe have quite the rez in the mids ... maybe ... :scratch:.
I was very satisfied with the Williams amp - it really is a stonker - and then the Technics turned up!
I can't quite put my finger on why I prefer the Technics at the moment - mmm, a more natural midrange is my best guess - more listening required!
Maybe bi-amping with the Williams on the bass?

[jandl100]

Yep, listening through the Technics amp this evening, it's the midrange that's the key - exceptionally transparent with big, big dollops of that ol' palpable presence / tactility thing. :drool:

[Ali Tait]

Yes, he's put a brick inside it.... :eyebrows:

My Copper amp weighs 40kg. Are we having a 'fat bastard' amp contest, then? :D

Marco

WAD 300b PSE monoblocks - 26kg apiece. :ner: