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{Ad temporarily removed until user complies with registration procedure -- Marco}
Hi Denis,
Welcome to AoS :)
Before any new members are allowed to use our free advertising facilities, they are required to pop into the Welcome area and introduce themselves to our community, outlining the system they use and the music that they like.
Jumping in simply to post a free ad is, as I'm sure you'll agree, rather rude.
Therefore, your ad has been temprarily removed until you comply with the registration procedure, so we would be obliged if you did so on your next visit, after which your ad will be fully restored.
Cheers! :cool:
Marco.
ok... sorry about that...
I certainly didn't thought that it could be perceived as "rude"...
sounds a bit like entering someones private home...
I confesse that the use of forums is a new thing for me...
although I have read lots of posts/opinions over the past 2/3 years to guide me in my hifi understanding & purchases...
my computer skills are a bit clumsy too... so I dont like typing that much...
my system (Rega dac, PL Dialogue2, audio Note an/j) is in flux at the moment...
I do not feel it to be balanced i a way that entirely satisfy so writing about it in a negative way is not the most encouraging stimulant to start a "persona" on a forum...
will get a Leben this week that will, I hope, provide the ingredients that I am looking for...
maybe then I will make the uber-effort to write something about it...
writing about my musical taste is another matter...
music for me is a private/intimate thing...
it has been a personal cerebral and individual journey...
I do not feel the need to share/display it with many/other people...
besides I do not remember having ever read anytime on a forum that vaguely interested me...
that sound rather hermetic...
but thats far from the case : i supply my curiosity with a network of radios/programs from around the world via the net ; mainly France, Germany, & the US...
I am fluent in those 3 languages..
that has allows to expend beyond the somewhat narrow pop/rock and the very very conservative classical national musical scene...
ok... thats enough for now... for someone that does not like typing...
kind regards
Denis
Hi Denis,
ok... sorry about that...
I certainly didn't thought that it could be perceived as "rude"...
No problem - it's perhaps because you're new to forums, or in this case, our community of audio and music enthusiasts.
Obviously this site has running costs which have to be paid for, and although we don't charge our members for advertising their wares, we do however ask that they put something into the site, rather than merely take from it...
Therefore, in that respect, I'm sure you can understand that joining purely and simply to take advantage of our free advertising facilities is rather discourteous, although I accept that being rude wasn't your intention.
If you also check the instructions you received during the registration process, you'll see that we ask all new members to post in the Welcome area FIRST, before doing anything else.
However, if you can do me a favour and copy the bit you've written below, and post it as a new thread in the Welcome area, perhaps also including what music you like, in terms of your favourite groups (or composers), I will restore your ad with immediate effect. This will show that you're willing to contribute something to our community and deserve to have access to our free facilities :cool:
my computer skills are a bit clumsy too... so I dont like typing that much...
my system (Rega dac, PL Dialogue2, audio Note an/j) is in flux at the moment...
I do not feel it to be balanced i a way that entirely satisfy so writing about it in a negative way is not the most encouraging stimulant to start a "persona" on a forum...
will get a Leben this week that will, I hope, provide the ingredients that I am looking for...
maybe then I will make the uber-effort to write something about it...
writing about my musical taste is another matter...
music for me is a private/intimate thing...
it has been a personal cerebral and individual journey...
I do not feel the need to share/display it with many/other people...
besides I do not remember having ever read anytime on a forum that vaguely interested me...
that sound rather hermetic...
but thats far from the case : i supply my curiosity with a network of radios/programs from around the world via the net ; mainly France, Germany, & the US...
I am fluent in those 3 languages..
that has allows to expend beyond the somewhat narrow pop/rock and the very very conservative classical national musical scene...
ok... thats enough for now... for someone that does not like typing...
kind regards
Marco.
i did asked you yesterday in a private message to remove my profile from this site...
please could you do so...
thank you and I wish you all the best
Denis
Hi Denis,
And I replied to your visitor message (to view it, simply click on your username on this page, then on 'View Public Profile', and scroll down). The message was that, sorry, we don't remove people's profiles. Why not just post in the Welcome area, as requested? You've already done most of the hard work....
It won't hurt, I promise! ;)
Marco.
oh dear...
never mind....
What's the big problem, mate? :)
Marco.
HighFidelityGuy
14-07-2011, 13:57
People rarely seem to read the rules when they join a new forum and many people probably just want to join for more casual lurking and thread reading. Not everyone wants to do the whole community thing. So when presented with a bunch of initiation rules to comply with they probably feel that they don't care enough to comply with the requirements. I guess it depends on what you want out of a forum and how familiar you are with a particular forum before joining.
Personally I usually spend quite a while reading posts on a forum before I decide to join it. So I'm already quite familiar with the rules and general etiquette and subtleties. I'm sure that others simply stumble across a forum and join quite quickly. In which case there are always going to be a few people that can't be bothered to comply with the joining rules or feel that the rules are over the top. It's just one of those things. A lot of people like the internet because it allows them to be anonymous and individual, so obviously community orientated forums like AoS won't be to their liking. That's the way I see it anyway. :)
I think that you're completely right, Dave, and I agree. However, that doesn't change how we like to do things here, therefore new members either embrace and accept how we do things here, when they're made aware of it, if necessary, or not. It's entirely their decision. AoS was never meant to be all things to all men. Oh, and we don't 'do' anonymity :)
Marco.
HighFidelityGuy
14-07-2011, 14:10
I think that you're completely right, Dave, and I agree. However, that doesn't change how we like to do things here, therefore new members either embrace and accept that, when they're made aware of it, or not - it's entirely their decision :)
Marco.
And I think that's the way it should be.
As Al Murray would say, "Where would we be if we didn't have rules? France!" :lol:
I don't think you'll see him again, his membership appears to be for an advert only :¬)
I'd also agree with that Dave - though I think the "rule book" tends to come out when someone joins, and their first post is to either advertise something for sale, or look to buy something another member is selling - if this was Craiglist or Gumtree then I don't think that would be a problem, but as far as I see it, the "classifieds" here are very much a service for members and incidental to the general forum chatter - so some involvement in the latter is encouraged before taking advantage of the free services. As someone once put it - "if you want to sit round the fire you have to get up and put a log on it"
Anyway, don't be scared off Denis - we're a pretty friendly bunch, come on in - you might enjoy it! :)
As someone once put it - "if you want to sit round the fire you have to get up and put a log on it"
Anyway, don't be scared off Denis - we're a pretty friendly bunch, come on in - you might enjoy it! :)
Indeed!
Marco.
camtwister
14-07-2011, 14:33
I welcome the approach of the Moderators. I too consider the AoS classifieds to be a bonus of forum membership, and having bought and sold via them, enjoy the increased peace of mind that comes from having some prior acquaintance with other contributors.
I welcome the approach of the Moderators. I too consider the AoS classifieds to be a bonus of forum membership, and having bought and sold via them, enjoy the increased peace of mind that comes from having some prior acquaintance with other contributors.
An important point, John - and one of the main reasons why we insist that people introduce themselves properly, and participate in our community a little, before using the classifieds section.
I'm considering imposing a rule, whereby only members with a minimum of 30 posts, inclusive of a proper introduction in the Welcome area, and who thus represent a 'known quantity', are allowed to access the Private Exhibitions area.....
Would anyone have any objections to this?
Marco.
worthingpagan
14-07-2011, 14:57
An important point, John - and one of the main reasons why we insist that people introduce themselves properly, and participate in our community a little, before using the classifieds section.
I'm considering imposing a rule, whereby only members with a minimum of 30 posts, and who thus represent a 'known quantity', are allowed to access the Private Exhibitions area.....
Would anyone have any objections to this?
Marco.
Marco, with respect, anyone can post 30 odd posts in a day, it don't mean you know anything about them. Personally i feel there should be some kind of time frame along with a postage minimum. Does that sound fair and workable, or draconian and unhelpful? :)
selfaddict
14-07-2011, 14:58
I think this is a good idea, it would also take some of the repetitive posting work off the moderators.
I'm considering imposing a rule, whereby only members with a minimum of 30 posts, and who thus represent a 'known quantity', are allowed to access the Private Exhibitions area.....
Would anyone have any objections to this?
Marco.
Would anyone have any objections to this?
That's a very good idea Marco. I used to belong to a travel forum that required 25 (good) posts before they could use certain sections of the forum. This was also subject to Moderator approval, as anyone can post 25 smilies or 'yeah man, that's great!' It stopped the constant single posting by some who just wanted something out of the forum, but weren't prepared to give anything back.
I must admit to joining the Gearslutz forum just to advertise - the talk there is far too geeky and over the top studio-nerdy for me to ever join in.
However, the classifieds aren't even viewable until you've contributed and been on their for a while, let alone advertise anything..
It is a massive forum and attracts even acclaimed producers and engineers so I guess they have a more exclusive feel to it all to uphold..
.. should that be relevent.
HighFidelityGuy
14-07-2011, 15:20
I've been a member of forums that require minimum post counts and/or minimum membership periods to access the classifieds section. It's a fairly common practice and in my opinion a completely acceptable one.
Sorry if I'm speaking out of turn here but can I just say that there are probably a few people out there like me that spend a bit of time just reading through postings. For me it is to learn how to get the most from my love of music. Not Hifi. I would have very little to add to most of the conversations that take place, due to my lack of knowledge. I could not really tot up 30 "worthy" postings unless someone really wants to know how to play a power fade with a golf ball or maybe squash strategy.
But, I use the classifieds to buy and sell, from trustworthy people, using the knowledge gained on the forum.
I know you are right and need to keep the great attitude on this forum but I thought i should just remind you that there are some little guys out there that need AoS more than it needs them.
ta,
Hugh.
Very good point Hugh - and one reason why it hasn't been imposed before I suspect. I think maybe a combination of time and posts would work - the other side of the coin is that we don't want to stifle outside interest for members sales, or not attract people who may well find us through a classified, but then go on to enjoy the forum.
camtwister
14-07-2011, 16:17
I would have very little to add to most of the conversations that take place, due to my lack of knowledge. I could not really tot up 30 "worthy" postings unless someone really wants to know how to play a power fade with a golf ball or maybe squash strategy.
I consider your comment a "worthy" post. I would not claim to be knowledgable about many topics discussed at AoS, but an important contribution can still be made as a non-expert.
The ultimate objective is to get the new folks to jump in and participate :)
Countless excellent threads over the years have begun with innocent questions from newbies, so get stuck in ;)
The forum rules is the forum rules - end of. Not too much to ask for a name and an intro is it?
ursus262
14-07-2011, 17:07
As Al Murray would say, "Where would we be if we didn't have rules? France!" :lol:
:lol:
Stratmangler
14-07-2011, 17:09
The ultimate objective is to get the new folks to jump in and participate :)
Countless excellent threads over the years have begun with innocent questions from newbies, so get stuck in ;)
The forum rules is the forum rules - end of. Not too much to ask for a name and an intro is it?
Sadly it seems that in this case it is too much, as the OP appears to have buggered off :rolleyes:
Surely we're not all that scary ?
ursus262
14-07-2011, 17:10
Countless excellent threads over the years have begun with innocent questions from newbies, so get stuck in ;)
Oh, all right then. What's this I hear about changing cables being a load of old bollocks? :lol:
Other forums specify 50 posts before advertising is allowed, and some require a subscription beforehand. Both are valid ways forward: after all, what are the options for selling gear? Untrustworthy sites such as G*mtr** or Cr**gl*st, both riddled with scammers: ePay and their now exhorbitant charges, mags that take an age to get to newsstands, etc.
Forums are a GREAT way of meeting fellow music nutters when exchanging gear: I think it's akin to a valuable public service, and I'd have no problem with the Moderators setting some boundaries.
I'm considering imposing a rule, whereby only members with a minimum of 30 posts, inclusive of a proper introduction in the Welcome area, and who thus represent a 'known quantity', are allowed to access the Private Exhibitions area.....
Would anyone have any objections to this?
Marco.
+1 :thumbsup:
Steve
...and I say that after having posted mostly mindless bollocks mind 54 times :)
Oh, all right then. What's this I hear about changing cables being a load of old bollocks? :lol:
You aint a newbie :ner:
ursus262
14-07-2011, 17:31
You aint a newbie :ner:
I'm newer than you! So there! :lolsign:
Sorry if I'm speaking out of turn here but can I just say that there are probably a few people out there like me that spend a bit of time just reading through postings. For me it is to learn how to get the most from my love of music. Not Hifi. I would have very little to add to most of the conversations that take place, due to my lack of knowledge. I could not really tot up 30 "worthy" postings unless someone really wants to know how to play a power fade with a golf ball or maybe squash strategy.
But, I use the classifieds to buy and sell, from trustworthy people, using the knowledge gained on the forum.
I know you are right and need to keep the great attitude on this forum but I thought i should just remind you that there are some little guys out there that need AoS more than it needs them.
ta,
Hugh.
I do agree too - must have been years lurking before I actually posted on a forum mainly because there's a big time gap between listening to music, playing about with hifi and eventually having views on the gear that people might want to hear..
I think actually my very first post on any forum was to Jerry (Jandl100) on HifiWigWam because he wanted to know what a pair of Tandberg Studio Monitors sounded like ... and I had a pair to sell!! HAHA suck that! Now look where that's got me, posting when I should be working or doing things.
Greg2010
14-07-2011, 19:47
I have been a 'member' since '09, a daily reader, and like Hughmc2, my knowledge is minimal and therefore my post count is low. I have seen little abuse of the classifieds section, or really any other parts of the forum. This suggests to me that the work of the moderators is generally very successful. Intervention only arrives when absolutely necessary, which gives a feeling of freedom to this forum that many others lack.
If there is to be a requirement for a certain number of posts, would the moderators then be tasked with a 'bollocks posts' assessment ensuring the validity and integrity of the poster?
Maybe a case for "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
Also, a thank you, to those who are able to pass on their knowledge and experience to us lesser mortals :) and to the mods for their work. Oh and thanks to that quiet retiring chap who owns the forum
Regards
Greg
...and I say that after having posted mostly mindless bollocks mind 54 times :)
you got some catching up to do to beat me cause thats all i post being a dumb ass no nothing
So, we have been party to much external lurking by voyeurists who don't post but enjoy reading the tripe we type on this forum :scratch:
Surely we should be making a shilling or two from these lurkers for the entertainment value? :eyebrows:
you got some catching up to do to beat me cause thats all i post being a dumb ass no nothing
Yesh, but you contribute invaluably to the collective daftness of the daftees, which is vitally important! :eyebrows:
Thanks for the compliments, Greg :)
Marco.
So, we have been party to much external lurking by voyeurists who don't post but enjoy reading the tripe we type on this forum :scratch:
Perhaps they should be know as peep-hole people
:D
...and I say that after having posted mostly mindless bollocks mind 54 times :)
Aha, so it's you that has been RAISING the standards above the rest of us? :whippin:
I wondered who was doing it :D
Yesh, but you contribute invaluably to the collective daftness of the daftees, which is vitally important! :eyebrows:
Marco.
I'm flattered i am
Greg2010
14-07-2011, 20:12
Originally Posted by Effem
So, we have been party to much external lurking by voyeurists who don't post but enjoy reading the tripe we type on this forum
Surely if we are members it's internal lurking, which paints an entirely different picture :ner:
Greg
jandl100
14-07-2011, 20:17
I think actually my very first post on any forum was to Jerry (Jandl100) on HifiWigWam because he wanted to know what a pair of Tandberg Studio Monitors sounded like ... and I had a pair to sell!! HAHA suck that! Now look where that's got me, posting when I should be working or doing things.
Good lord. Really?
So ... it's all my fault, is it? :doh: :ner:
... I didn't buy those Tandbergs ... it took me quite a while to actually buy something from you, but you got my £££ in the end. Most pleased, I am, most pleased. :)
Jac Hawk
14-07-2011, 23:32
An important point, John - and one of the main reasons why we insist that people introduce themselves properly, and participate in our community a little, before using the classifieds section.
I'm considering imposing a rule, whereby only members with a minimum of 30 posts, inclusive of a proper introduction in the Welcome area, and who thus represent a 'known quantity', are allowed to access the Private Exhibitions area.....
Would anyone have any objections to this?
Marco.
Great idea mate, and it might put people off like Denis who just want to advertise for free, the frikin cheek:eek: of it astounds me
Trickie_Dickie
15-07-2011, 05:57
Maybe a case for "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
Also, a thank you, to those who are able to pass on their knowledge and experience to us lesser mortals :) and to the mods for their work. Oh and thanks to that quiet retiring chap who owns the forum
Regards
Greg
I don't think it needs changing. He buggered off quick, didn't he. Job done. :lol::cool:
Who would have thought… a casually misplaced add could generate such heat… a mini tragicomic soap opera… and so revealing….
well I had to ad my take on it…
First thing first. Yesterday evening at 8 a young guy came to pick up that 3 tier hifi shelf I advertised here for 20 quid. I had no use for it for a while and was more interested in getting rid of it than making a profit. The guy was very pleased and felt that it was a bargain. Which is what it was. We had a chat about things hifi, how he couldn't afford the stuff that he wanted, he talked of his experience with home made cables... He took it away in the bus, back to Camden where he lives.
Meanwhile, 3 millions light years way, on planet AoS, my benign add provoked an identity crises ! A call to order ! A public reading of the verses ! "Something had to be done about it". The beehive was under threat !
Initially the moderator, the virtual matron, felt that I was "rude" to enter the site without talking about myself. I should have identify myself. Display a few platitudes of my system, what kind of music I like. He felt that I was "taking out" (from the site) and "not giving anything back". Really ? Almost a crime then ?
Today I just read all those posts. Christ oh mighty ! Who belongs ? Who doesn't ? Under what criteria ? Who sets the criteria ? Concerns of disintegration if the rules are becomes to vague. "We need stricter rules", "anyway who is really one of us in the first place?". One post said "don't worry he is not coming back". Pfff… the danger has past… What is all that anxiety about ? That fear of loosing control ? Control of what ? That insistence for a border control (a few names dropping) start to really makes sense. No doubt I should have read the instruction manuel. You should always do so before plugging it in. But none of the other sites asked futile questions like that. So I didn't bother. They appreciate, I guess, that a lively, rich, classified section is a valuable asset. Who cares who sales what on it as long as it is appropriate and useful to someone. They don't take any responsibility for it anyway. If members want to use other facilities in a more public way, participate in debates about plotting the next audio revolution, or sharing why they feel God is important in choosing the right interconnect cable, they can do so if they wish. What is the problem in having only a limited interest in a forum, in having no interest in confessing publicly a damaging obsession with Nana Mouskouri ? Moderator have a role for sure. I seen them intervene at times. But rarely so. There is on the whole an organic self regulation in forums, and on the net in general, that does not require that much intervention.
AoS differs from similar sites in that those who run it conceive of it as a group. Or a club. The ethos is not so much about providing a service but more akin in managing a private property, A club's private bit of of virtual land. It requires some control at the point of entrance. You got to pass the bouncers first. And there is nothing wrong with that, once you know what you are getting into. It's just a different state of mind. Thats why it is so important to present some kind of persona when joining. You need an approval. A little assessment, judgement, classification. Stereo-typing ? You got to show that you can be appropriated. Archaic, for sure, and pretty pointless too, but it confers to the owner/manager their rightful purpose and validates their position. The paradox, even the contradiction, is that in order to be successful and survive there is a need open and give access to non members. Namely to those who are not exactly affiliated with the group. And probably never will be. That is where I come in. ("hello everyone… who wants a 20 quid 3 tier shelf ?" "AHHH no no no…. thats not allow ! who are you ? and how dare you walking in here without kneeling first… don't you know who I am ?"). Some site have indeed specific entry requirements. You get an approval via email first. If you have not completed properly the entry form or if you are dimmed inappropriate for joining they will inform you before gaining or refusing access. None of that was required when subscribing to AoS. So ? Its a kind of club, with an identity and a specific purpose. But anyone can come in after a little parody a kinship. What ever…Why not…
At the heart to identity there is paranoid schizophrenia. It's inherent to it. It defines invariably not only what it is but what it is not. There is always within it a dislike of that which is different. Difference, or the unknown, is lived as a threat to it existence because it potentially contains the undoing of its constituent. Anonymity, for exactly the same reasons, is too the opposite of/to it. "You got to be vigilant". And that has to be played out on a stage. In front of the audience/subscribers. Roles are taken, the script may changes, as does those who do the acting, but it always ends in the same way. The point is not to arrive at something new but to preserve as long as possible "the same". There is no reason why this should be different in (some) audio community. Thats what was so clearly expressed in many of the posts above. And thats why, I regret to say, my mistake was made so public. As was the refusal to erase my profile. It is (I am measuring my words) verging on the nasty. Its about making an example. Affirming power and re-establishing unequivocally those who posses it. And that is also what is at the heart of identify and groups.
To me, enjoying anonymity, to seek and stay in the margin when ever possible, is not a dislike of people, its a platform for freedom. Groups, clubs, communities are about rules, laws, hierarchies. You got to conform, submit and obey. I just cant be asked. Its nothing to do with identity but all to do with personality. Not quiet the same thing. I do not need or look for an ersatz.
And know I got to work…
All the best
.
LOL! May I refer you, Denis, to what you wrote earlier:
ok... thats enough for now... for someone that does not like typing...
Well, that last 'epistle' of yours must have hurt like F*CK!! :lol: :lol:
Anyway, AoS is AoS. You either accept it, or you don't. Your choice! What kind of music did you say you liked, again? :eyebrows:
Marco.
why dont you erase my profile like I asked you to ?
what is the point of getting on with this ?
what is it that you want Marco ?
Nothing. You're the one who is dragging this out. We don't erase profiles - end of. Therefore, simply accept that fact, move on elsewhere and STFU, or stay and contribute, as per the rules of our community.... :)
Marco.
i got nothing to contribute I'm afraid...
not yet, not for the moment, and certainly not under those terms...
I understand that this is not how that site operate...
it doesn't really mater if you cant or wont erase my profile...
the ride was instructive and fun...
i am sure other will have found entertaining too...
ok... I will leave to that... i think everything has been said...
This bloke is great!
Can we keep him, Marco - please? - we'll look after him and play with him every day I promise!
the ride was instructive and fun...
Indeed... Rarely have I experienced such learned dialogue and rampant hilarity on a humble 'message board'. Clearly, your varied and eventful life excedes the limits of my wildest comprehension - if only mine contained such unfettered excitement. Anyway, don't spend the £20 you got for your shelf all in the one shop, will you?
Cheerio! :wave: :wave:
Marco.
Neil McCauley
15-07-2011, 12:17
Nothing. You're the one who is dragging this out. We don't erase profiles - end of. Therefore, simply accept that fact, move on elsewhere and STFU, or stay and contribute, as per the rules of our community.... :)
Marco.
+1
Marco has a point, which if you stick around you might, as indeed I have, you might come to appreciate. I write as a non-conformist, anarchistic, somewhat aggressive and rather odd (so I’m reliably informed) individual.
Yes, the rules and so on did make bristle a bit – for a while in fact. But then I came to realise through observation that there is at AoS a rather different attitude and culture afoot here. It appeals to me and the others but no one would claim it’s universally applicable nor universally attractive.
What I can tell you is that the moderation is consistent and even-handed. Remarkably so in fact. And yes, I've pissed them off a bit from time to time. Sometimes severely. But their responses were handled with such good grace and politeness then I felt obliged to respond similarly.
I hope this isn’t falling on deaf ears. But like all of us, there’s a choice. If you (like I did initially) just observe from the sidelines for a while, you might be very pleasantly surprised from time to time. That’s it. Thank you.
Sincerely
Howard.
Spectral Morn
15-07-2011, 12:40
+1
Marco has a point, which if you stick around you might, as indeed I have, you might come to appreciate. I write as a non-conformist, anarchistic, somewhat aggressive and rather odd (so I’m reliably informed) individual.
Yes, the rules and so on did make bristle a bit – for a while in fact. But then I came to realise through observation that there is at AoS a rather different attitude and culture afoot here. It appeals to me and the others but no one would claim it’s universally applicable nor universally attractive.
What I can tell you is that the moderation is consistent and even-handed. Remarkably so in fact. And yes, I've pissed them off a bit from time to time. Sometimes severely. But their responses were handled with such good grace and politeness then I felt obliged to respond similarly.
I hope this isn’t falling on deaf ears. But like all of us, there’s a choice. If you (like I did initially) just observe from the sidelines for a while, you might be very pleasantly surprised from time to time. That’s it. Thank you.
Sincerely
Howard.
Great post Howard.
It was this uniqueness of attitude, approach, actual moderation + the high quality of the posts and discussions here (including yours by the way)that persuaded me to stay a member of AOS, join the community, get stuck in and then become part of the team. AOS is unique among audio forums and while it does not work for everyone I am for one glad it is the way it is.
Regards D S D L
Thing Fish
15-07-2011, 13:25
:goodthread:
Well put Howard from another odd ball :)
joethebus
15-07-2011, 20:04
Sychophants of the world unite, whydoncha?
The bloke hasn't really put a foot wrong yet you've all decided to gang up on him. Mostly because, though you have avoided saying so in so many words, his written English leaves a bit to be desired.
Reminds me of being sent away to a new school at the age of thirteen two years after everyone else got there. Not a pleasant experience, and the wounds took quite a while to heal.
Then a couple of years after that I was a bit more established and another new boy came along and we all picked on him. I'm not proud of the part I played in that, and having thought it through have concluded bullying in all its many forms is indefensible and extremely unattractive.
Just sayin'!
Joe
Indeed it is a good thread!
Your last large paragraph was particularly good Denis - I'm the same in that sense. Conforming to a group or tribe or seeing others do it, well it's not something that sits well with me - I normally start to disinvolve myself if I feel it happening around, a preservation of self identity and desire for freedom from the constraints of other people's self-filtered, tribally-filtered ideas of who I am and their expectations of me.
Forum-wise, oddly enough and counterintuitively and as Howard has said already, AoS does end up being LESS tribal than most of the others (well, hard to tell with a couple, with the tumbleweed rolling and blowing about). I think the overall open-mindedness that is promoted actively by moderators is the key.
However, I joined before the introduce yourself rule and it may have put me off to be honest precisely because of the above.. I introduced myself a couple of years in..
Also, personally I have no problem with people coming on only to advertise as long as it is just personal stuff and doesn't get too business-like. BUT the forum has been set up by Marco as he wants it - it's his baby so to speak and its image in the eyes of users (and non-users) and the feel of it needs to be shaped by him to his ideals and we can join in or not I guess..
jandl100
15-07-2011, 20:13
Hi Joe
No, I don't think that's fair at all.
He was just invited to play by the local rules and has declined to do so.
I hope he changes his mind. :)
Yes, some of the denizens here had a bit of fun. But that's all part of the ethos here as well. And in no way did I feel that was connected with his ability to communicate - which I felt he did particularly well, btw!
Good lord. Really?
So ... it's all my fault, is it? :doh: :ner:
... I didn't buy those Tandbergs ... it took me quite a while to actually buy something from you, but you got my £££ in the end. Most pleased, I am, most pleased. :)
I am really glad you're enjoying the DPA - it's a matter of pride to have provided something to the famous boxswapper Jerry that he want's to keep!
I in the meantime continue the treacherous path of trying others (Manley Junior is grabbing my attention more than the AS DAX unexpectedly, although subtley, even though it's a simpler take on the same chip - might be a superb DAC to add a valve output stage to)
I had been lurking around, mainly on vinylengine or DIYAudio, but yes, your very words resonated accross the search-engine ether and tweeked my purely commercial sentiments.. and I discovered there were other people trying all this stuff out too and talking about it!
Sychophants of the world unite, whydoncha?
The bloke hasn't really put a foot wrong yet you've all decided to gang up on him. Mostly because, though you have avoided saying so in so many words, his written English leaves a bit to be desired.
Reminds me of being sent away to a new school at the age of thirteen two years after everyone else got there. Not a pleasant experience, and the wounds took quite a while to heal.
Then a couple of years after that I was a bit more established and another new boy came along and we all picked on him. I'm not proud of the part I played in that, and having thought it through have concluded bullying in all its many forms is indefensible and extremely unattractive.
Just sayin'!
Joe
Hi Joe,
Point taken, but Denis really brought this upon himself.
It's very simple:
Before joining a forum, you observe the rules of the site carefully beforehand, one of which here (posting in the Welcome area before doing anything else) is clearly stated in the instructions given during the registration process.
If you don't agree with the rules, then don't join or contribute to the forum - simples.
And if you join and contribute regardless, then don't moan like a girl when those who run the site politely ask that you comply with the rules, particularly when the motive for joining an on-line community is purely for financial gain. Denis set the tone by the uncooperative and sarcastic nature of his subsequent responses.
If he had done as he was asked, there would've been no problem. If he didn't want to do that, then he shouldn't have been there in the first place!
Perhaps you could explain why I, as the person who pays the running costs of this site, should simply sit back and allow our free advertising facilities to be raped by freeloaders?? Are AoS and I here simply to subsidise complete strangers advertising their gear for sale???
Marco.
... allow our free advertising facilities to be raped by freeloaders??
:lol:
Found that amusingly over the top.. You probably had to literally* wipe your screen after your fingers spat out those words!
Can understand the passion, which is good.
Sorry, back to you, Marco.
* Seemed a good place to incorrectly use 'literally' - maybe you typed with such passion that saliva really did appear..
Lol!
Well, Nat, it's just the sheer cheek of people like Denis that rips my knitting, and folk like Joe (sorry!) who think that he was in some way hard done by!! :doh:
Perhaps I should bill them for the annual running costs of the site, and see whether that would change their attitude on the matter? ;)
Marco.
icehockeyboy
15-07-2011, 22:55
Analogy time..........Man want's to join a club, any club, golf, drinking, social, whatever.
To get in, he agrees to abide by the rules.
Once in, he decides to whinge that he isn't going to abide by them.
He gets thrown out.
As the meerkat would say......"Simples" :lolsign:
In a nutshell, dude - YUP!
And anyone who doesn't have the wherewithal to grasp that simple philosophy should join the club for the hard of thinking (or the blind)!! ;)
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
15-07-2011, 23:10
It should also be remembered that all we're asking for is a bit of a natter - it's not like the membership fees make it an exclusive club.
A moment spent looking at other people's Welcome messages will show that everyone gets a warm welcome.
Indeed - it's hardly a major sacrifice, is it?
And to compound things further, ol' 'Denis the Menace' made the ludicrous assertion that he doesn't like typing :rolleyes: So why the f*ck then join an Internet forum, when typing stuff is what you'll mostly be doing? :mental:
That would be akin to joining a book club and saying that you don't like reading.... :lol:
Muppetry of the highest order... The bloody world is full of zoomers!
Marco.
Trickie_Dickie
15-07-2011, 23:29
Denis, I was just wondering.......when you go to a party, do you introduce yourself to other people, like, y'know, stick out your hand and " Hi, I'm Denis. How's it hanging". Or do you just sit in a corner playing with your iphone. :cool:
Jac Hawk
16-07-2011, 01:18
Totally agree with you Marco
I, as the person who pays the running costs of this site, should simply sit back and allow our free advertising facilities to be raped by freeloaders?? Are AoS and I here simply to subsidise complete strangers advertising their gear for sale???The guy was simply looking for a free place to advertise his unwanted gear, obviously a bit of a penny pincher, and when he was rumbled he didn't like it. If it was me I would have a minimum amount of posts, and i know from reading earlier on in the thread that some members like to read and not write too much, which is fine, but this isn't a copy of HiFi World either, it's a forum which survives only because people start threads and submit replies, you don't have to be Yoda or a great sage, just have an opinion or a burning question that you may need some answers for, as Marco says simples.
So as far as i'm concerned if the sole reason you have for joining the AoS is cheap advertising of yer gear, then JOG ON:ner:
Totally agree with you Marco The guy was simply looking for a free place to advertise his unwanted gear, obviously a bit of a penny pincher, and when he was rumbled he didn't like it. If it was me I would have a minimum amount of posts, and i know from reading earlier on in the thread that some members like to read and not write too much, which is fine, but this isn't a copy of HiFi World either, it's a forum which survives only because people start threads and submit replies, you don't have to be Yoda or a great sage, just have an opinion or a burning question that you may need some answers for, as Marco says simples.
So as far as i'm concerned if the sole reason you have for joining the AoS is cheap advertising of yer gear, then JOG ON:ner:
I don't agree with your assesment - he reads the posts because he's interested in music and wants to learn about hifi to get more out of it.
As he says, he doesn't know so much about hifi and more interested in the music anyway (weirdo! :) ) so why would he feel he could post necessarily even if he wanted to?
He also says he's not the type to get all chummy and over the top enthusiastic with others about his personal taste in music and have self congratulatory discussions about each other's taste. Neither am I and so don't do that either and on forums it all reads quite badly anyway, often as if people are trying to out do or proove to each other something, in a tribal way. Not my scene either and so keep myself to myself when it comes to personal taste and passions.
So he's happy reading the forum! Doesn't have to say anything does he? Are lurkers banned?
Then he has a stand hanging around that he wants to clear and asking only a measly £20 - to someone here because we're all in to hifi - and people jump down his throat!
Fair enough it was more his reaction to the introduction part that caused a problem but I also sympathise with that too as I had to force myself to do it to get it out of the way - my intro was vague musically (because I pretty much like any genre as long as there's something intersting in it) and any mention of my system was just a snap shot cos it changes so much, so kind of pointless too. But I said hello at least as per the rules!
Maybe the thread's dragging on now though - was good in the middle somewhere - I liked Dennis's long post. Going over old ground now.
AoS is only what it is because of the way it is run - it is SFA to do with "tribalism" or the other drivel that has been written in this thread.
10, 20, 50, 100 posts, typing a short ditty, tap dancing with a Hippo, or paying a sum of money are all entrance fees of some sort or another which the forum owner has the right to ask.
All that is asked from someone who wants to sell an item in the classifieds is a short introduction like "I am Bert, I likes me stereo, Joan Armourplating and that Bruce Windscreen bloke is me favourite artistes". It doesn't even have to be real, it doesn't have to be a 1,000 words long, but it is the price being asked on AoS for a freebie advert. I have no doubt at all in my mind that there is a goodly percentage of our "members" that have done just that, we will never hear from them again and that it will continue on regardless unless the rules are changed.
Denis didn't feel the need to do any of that and he had a choice to make. What brought it all up to the surface is the amount of paranoia I saw about removing his identity and subsequently the accusations that there is some sort of tribal gang operating here where we have secret handshakes, rolled up trouser legs, have to expose a breast and playing the Bongo drums with our willy for some sort of "acceptance" into the club. They put signs up all around the National Grid which says "danger of death" but the numptys will still scale the fences with hacksaws and wire cutters, so little surprise when they fry, so the OP didn't read the signs here . . . . .
Grow up Denis.
Nat, you're starting to annoy me now. Your last post beggars belief and completely misses the point! :rolleyes:
The fact is, Denis didn't read the rules of the site before he joined, and when he was asked to comply with them, instead of respectfully and politely doing that, he got all arsey and indignant about it, which set the tone for the following responses - ALL totally *his* fault, not ours.
You can't just wander in here and do what the hell you like!
He also joined the site for one selfish reason only: to sell his equipment support, and as Mike says, didn't like it when his sole intentions were 'rumbled', which is why he asked for his profile to be removed.
Why on earth should I pay the costs of running this site just for some selfish clown to advertise his gear free of charge? It makes no difference if it's a £20 shelf or a £20,000 system. Financial gain (however paltry) was the ONLY reason why Denis was here, so if you think that his actions were in any way justified, then you and I are on different planets!!
People must learn to GIVE, and not only take, from AoS.
So he's happy reading the forum! Doesn't have to say anything does he? Are lurkers banned?
No, but quite frankly, we don't encourage "lurkers". Why join a forum if you just want to "lurk"? You may as well not bother, as you can just as easily read the forum, and put no effort in, as a non-member.
If everyone just lurked, there would be NO forum! We want people to join AoS who then contribute as often as possible and become a regular part of our community, and if that means that there are fewer members overall, then so be it. Quality must always come before quantity.
I'd rather have 300 people who contribute regularly to the forum, in the manner that we outline in our ethos, than 3000 "lurkers" who do sweet FA to develop our community.
Now please accept that, Nat, and be done with it. You really do have a bad habit sometimes of not knowing when to say your piece in a debate and then bow out gracefully. I will allow a few more replies to this thread, if anyone feels that they've got something desperately important to say, and then it will be locked.
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
16-07-2011, 07:44
The man wanted to sell his stand for £20. Crikey, he must be hard up to bother with a poxy 20 quid. And, you know, Marco is RIGHT: it's so BLOODY RUDE to just butt in on a forum with something for sale and then oink like a stuck pig when it is politely pointed out that it's bad manners to just poke your snout in without an intro. Bugger off if you don't like it.
John
StanleyB
16-07-2011, 08:09
There are a lot of audio related forums out there, but when you use one of the search engines for more information on a particular type of gear, AoS frequently turns out to be the main or only source that has anything on it. I am sure that didn't happen by chance. It was the input from the members, and the mention in the introduction that they own a particular piece of kit, which turned AoS into a reference point. So the usefulness of that rule is more than just politeness. It's for many the last straw in their search for someone who has firsthand experience with a particular piece of kit.
Mind you, I wish that all dealer posting in the trade section would also be asked to have some sort of discount scheme for members. Other forums ask for hard cash before dealers can even mention their product in a thread. But I frequently see some dealers showing up on AoS just to plug a new product or offer on their own site. It's something that should also be looked at more closely I reckon.
Interesting point Stan perhaps one we should think about in the future
The site is not an advertising site its a site for people to talk about audio and music mostly. The private ads is an act of good will to the members so they have another place to sell goods. In this case it was being abused and rightly stopped
The site is not an advertising site its a site for people to talk about audio and music mostly. The private ads is an act of good will to the members so they have another place to sell goods. In this case it was being abused and rightly stopped
Indeed... And so hopefully this thread will serve its purpose as a warning as to what we expect from people who join our community.
In fact, I'm making it into a sticky, so it will remain as a permanent reference!
<Thread now closed>
Marco.
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