DIY cables - CAT5

[nat8808]

Just a quick question..

I'm having a clearout and have a load of CAT5 cable I found with the idea it would be good for DIY interconnects (speaker cables too?)..

It takes a lot of space, this massive nest of cable - shall I bother keeping it or throw it out? (I've no need to use it for networking either).

[Stratmangler]

No.
Throw it out.

[nat8808]

I've added a poll for fun.. (I've voted already and kind of agree mainly because there's lots of it - sure I saw somewhere some DIY cables with multiple lengths used - TNT website or somewhere.)

[lurcher]

It makes great speaker cable.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html

[HighFidelityGuy]

It makes great speaker cable.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html

But it isn't suitable for all amps as it's very high capacitance. For example Naim and NVA amps can be damaged by using high capacitance cables. So just be careful if you do decide to make up some speaker cables out of it. I have heard it can work well though, so it might be worth a try if your amp is suitable. :)

[Ali Tait]

Yep agreed, it's very good if you follow the TNT recipe.

[ursus262]

It all sounds a bit of a faff to me :mental:

[Stratmangler]

This should be ok as speaker cable http://www.soundlightuk.com/shop/products/Red-6A-2192Y-Oval-2-Core-PVC-Flex.-100m-Reel.html

[sq225917]

What HFG said above. It will make a high capacitance cable so is 'terminally' unsuitable for use with some amps.

[nat8808]

Thanks for your input people.

It is all a bit tangled and scrappy, dirty cable pulled from some building so I think maybe I'll put it in the electronics recycling area after all (may keep a bit for actual network duties). Unless anyone should want it of course? Probably close to 100m at a complete guess in two tangled lengths.

AND I also recently found the end of a drum of good quality, all copper coax as per TNT UBYTE-2 DIY cables (http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ubyte2e.html) so perhaps that will be a better bet for speaker cable at least. 20m I'd guess

Great having a proper electrical recycling area on my estate - all sorts turn up.

[HighFidelityGuy]

I've just had a quick read through that TNT article about the coax speaker cable and I'm not sure I agree with their recommendation of using "low loss" coax cable as this is some of the worst quality copper coax cable available. Here's and article about coax types from the point of view of using them for TV/Sat broadcasts: LINK (http://www.aerialsandtv.com/cableandleads.html#3maincabletypes)

Obviously the application is a little different but I think the principal is the same. :)

[nat8808]

I've just had a quick read through that TNT article about the coax speaker cable and I'm not sure I agree with their recommendation of using "low loss" coax cable as this is some of the worst quality copper coax cable available. Here's and article about coax types from the point of view of using them for TV/Sat broadcasts: LINK (http://www.aerialsandtv.com/cableandleads.html#3maincabletypes)

Obviously the application is a little different but I think the principal is the same. :)

You are right in terms of what to use but then what TNT actually use isn't the "low loss" stuff in the link you describe either.

Think it probably is real low-loss cable as opposed to in the article you point to has it in "" as if it is a claim made by the manufacturer and but in reality is the cheapest and most lossy!

What he describes:


It also has a full copper foil shield (not metalised film or aluminum - never use these) with a relatively sparse plain copper braid over the Copper Foil. If it does not have the copper foil, it's NDFG (could be read No Darn Flipping Good) for our purposes

is actually the Copper foil type “satellite cable” which is what they say is best in the link you gave too.

Luckily that's what I've found - some good stuff. Left over from a professional building job i suspect, not home stuff.

[HighFidelityGuy]

You're quite right, the cable TNT use is much better than the crappy low loss stuff you get now. If you've got copper foil shielded cable than I'd definitely say it's worth making into some interconnects at least and possibly some speaker cables. :)

[MartinT]

Been there, tried it and not worth the effort.

Now then, lighting twin + earth is a different matter. Makes great speaker cable.

[Alex_UK]

There was another thread recently where I told my tale of woe - the blisters and RSI weren't worth it, IMO!

[nat8808]

Are you both, MartinT and Alex_UK talking of the CAT5 as per my initial question or the coax cables just mentioned?

Think the CAT5 may well be on its way over to the recycling area at the weekend..

[nat8808]

Been there, tried it and not worth the effort.

Now then, lighting twin + earth is a different matter. Makes great speaker cable.

The thick stuff? How about kitchen, solid core wire?

[Alex_UK]

Are you both, MartinT and Alex_UK talking of the CAT5 as per my initial question or the coax cables just mentioned?

Think the CAT5 may well be on its way over to the recycling area at the weekend..

To be fair Nat, I tried a different "recipe" to the TNT cable - I never tried the TNT stuff, as I had lost the will to live and the use of my limbs after making the first pair!

Just found my previous post on it - here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=228710&postcount=5)

[nat8808]

To be fair Nat, I tried a different "recipe" to the TNT cable - I never tried the TNT stuff, as I had lost the will to live and the use of my limbs after making the first pair!

Just found my previous post on it - here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=228710&postcount=5)

Haha - that must have been a lot of work! One intricate and thick friendship band.

In the bin then - I'll concentrate on the satallite coax instead.

Townshend's Isolda cable started off as coax cable, several (9?) lengths of 50ohm coax in parallel to get its impedance down to near 8 ohms. You can see it in his demo video on his site.

[MartinT]

Are you both, MartinT and Alex_UK talking of the CAT5 as per my initial question or the coax cables just mentioned?

I was talking about CAT5.

[MartinT]

The thick stuff? How about kitchen, solid core wire?

Never tried it, but 6A twin + earth I used to use a lot. Strip it out of the sheath, discard the earth wire, twist the red & black cores in a hand drill bit until tightly wound with the cores crossing each other at close to 90 degrees. The result: low inductance speaker cable, cheap and sounds good.

[Welder]

I can’t find the info atm but I was under the impression that there was a change in construction standard from Cat5 and 5e variety at the introduction of Cat6; something to do with the increased bandwidth requirements.
Anyway, as I understand it the dielectric changed and the copper wire used was 100% oxygen free, whatever significance that has :scratch:

I should point out here that I have at least one foot in the objectivist, use a coat hanger faction; best to ignore the cable pics in my galley and anything I’ve written about the endless cables I’ve made.

Well, like the OP, what does one do with piles of bits of wire if not twist them all together weld them and try to electrocute oneself at times of intense boredom ?

Course, if AlexUK had persevered instead of whimping out after a few turns due to wrist ache we would now be being regaled with stories of his wrist power in more pleasurable pursuits. Every cloud and all that....;)

Ahem, I digress.
Twisting together the little bits of pretty wire enclose inside the Cat cable, first in pairs and then pairs to quads etc can give interesting results and its less tiring on the wrist for those of you who may have moved into the novelty adult toy department and not require any further wrist strength.

Even more exciting is to twist together differing thicknesses and shapes of cable into your Cat6 config.

In short, bin them.

[HighFidelityGuy]

I can’t find the info atm but I was under the impression that there was a change in construction standard from Cat5 and 5e variety at the introduction of Cat6; something to do with the increased bandwidth requirements.
Anyway, as I understand it the dielectric changed and the copper wire used was 100% oxygen free, whatever significance that has :scratch:

From what I understand the main difference between CAT6 and earlier types is that CAT6 has thicker insulation on the conductors. The thicker insulation also results in the overall cable diameter being thicker. On cables I have it also has an X shaped plastic former that runs down the centre of the cable to allow the 4 twisted pairs to be separated from each other. This all reduces crosstalk (in TCP/IP applications) between the twisted pairs. This X shaped former also makes CAT6 cables much stiffer than CAT5 or 5E. I think the conductor gauge is also bigger in some CAT6 cables.

With the conductors being more spaced apart I would expect the capacitance of CAT6 cable to be slightly lower than that of CAT5 or 5E but that's just a guess.

[Stratmangler]

From what I understand the main difference between CAT6 and earlier types is that CAT6 has thicker insulation on the conductors. The thicker insulation also results in the overall cable diameter being thicker. On cables I have it also has an X shaped plastic former that runs down the centre of the cable to allow the 4 twisted pairs to be separated from each other. This all reduces crosstalk (in TCP/IP applications) between the twisted pairs. This X shaped former also makes CAT6 cables much stiffer than CAT5 or 5E. I think the conductor gauge is also bigger in some CAT6 cables.

With the conductors being more spaced apart I would expect the capacitance of CAT6 cable to be slightly lower than that of CAT5 or 5E but that's just a guess.

I instal data cabling for a living - the wire gauge specification for Cat5e and Cat6 is the same 22AWG - 24AWG.
It's high purity copper too, but not specified as OFHC copper.

The twisting in the pairs has a higher turn/metre ratio with Cat6 for better RF rejection.
The four pairs of wires are also separated in Cat6, with an X shaped former, and this provides greater crosstalk rejection between the pairs.

Cat6 cable has a slightly larger cross sectional diameter than Cat5e, and this is due to the X shaped former.

Something that often gets overlooked is that most Cat5e installations are capable of supporting Gigabit working, as the improved wiring spec is only part of the story.
Gigabit networking uses all four cable pairs, whereas 10Base or 100Base only requires the use of two pairs.