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Marco
14-10-2008, 00:14
With money no object, what would be your ultimate turntable? Please provide a picture of it or a link to a picture of it.

If I had the room, and there was one available at the right price, this is what I'd buy:

http://www.shawsounds.com/of_interest

Somewhat 'utilitarian' and industrial looking perhaps, but I just *know* it would sound awesome. I love the arm and cartridge, too. I must admit that I adore high-quality classic broadcast equipment.

Does anyone know if this is what the likes of BBC Radio 1 would have used to broadcast the chart show on Sunday nights during the very early 80s before CD was invented? I think they even used Garrards at one time...

I always thought the sound quality on the chart show was superb during that era (I used to tape it regularly - sad I know! :eyebrows:), not like now at any time on commercial radio! You can hear the thin sounding compressed MP3 recordings and playback equipment used nowadays.

The EMT 950 and Denon DP-100 are the only T/Ts on the planet that I'd swap my KAB 1210 for :)

Guys, what is your ultimate T/T?

Marco.

John
14-10-2008, 06:11
Here is mine totally over the top but should really make some wonderfull noise!!!
http://www.oswaldsmillaudio.com/products%20-%20saskia.html

Togil
14-10-2008, 06:36
Well someone had to mention this

http://www.transrotor.de/code/de/produkte/plattenspieler/gravitatmd.html

Before you say " completely unnecessary " ( which I have seen on this forum ) please note that it has the lowest rumble measurements of any TT

Beechwoods
14-10-2008, 07:08
If money were no object I'd love to have one of these to play with.

http://www.elpj.com/main.html

I have no idea how it sounds, but it is apparently quite resistant to surface noise, which is attractive to me. Not to mention the reduced wear on your collection :)

pure sound
14-10-2008, 08:21
I heard the laser TT at a CES show a few years ago. Despite being played through some mediocre electronics & speakers you could tell that it was very good. It did require the records to be scrupulously clean.

I was also impressed when two halves of a broken 78 were put together on its platter and it played the disc without a problem!

There was an interesting story behind its development too. Several companies and millions of dollars were involved. They'll never get that back.

Marco
14-10-2008, 13:07
Some nice examples there, guys, some of them I haven't seen before :)

So what makes a turntable 'special' for you? What turns you on design-wise, provenance, or in terms of sonic/musical presentation?

Marco.

griffo104
14-10-2008, 13:46
Simply too many turntables that I would want.

Speaking of DD decks I've always wanted a Trio L07D but they are pretty rare and go for too much money 2nd hand at the moment.

I'd like a Brinkmann LaGrange

I'd like a Rockport Sirius III - which I was lucky enough to hear at a hifi show a long time ago.

I'd like a Kuzma Stabi XL

I'd like something by Simon Yorke.

I own a Michell deck - I've always loved the look and quality of the design, even though I know bouncey decks aren't everyones cuppa. I'm happy to be able to own something I'd admired from a distance and doubt I'll ever get rid of it.

I'd like to hear what all the fuss about the Caliburn deck is all about - I rather like it's retro US diner looks as well.

I'd like to get to hear one of the Immedia decks, I get to read about them in Stereophile but they don't seem to have really been available over here.

I want to hear the GP Monaco

I loved the Avid Acutus when I heard it many years ago now.

So many turntables, so little time (and most importantly so little money). I just adore the design and craftsmanship og turntables.

I can only think of 2 cd players I would really want.

Now don't get me started on the arms and cartridges I would want as well.

It's no wonder vinyl has still lived on, albeit in a niche. They are just so much more interesting and enjoyable than any digital source component I've yet to come across.

John
14-10-2008, 16:48
Many aspects of a turntable that makes it special
First of I like a turntable that realy communicates the music with enrgy and sophiscation not an easy balance to achieve but must be capable of blowing my socks of when needed and seducing me also
Think design is important also I like what Idler drives does the 401 with slatedeck and the Terminator tonearm created magic for me!! even more so than the Brinkmann Lagrange and Raven AC both special decks I am sure a direct drive will have similar results but yet to hear what a good direct drive can do.
I also like it to be a bit exotic if you spending money to that degree I would want a certain X factor, being relatively obscure helps
A clear rationale to its design also helps me to understand the thought and care that went into designing and building the turntable.
But it will come down to sound how much i just sink into the music and how much I can feel in my body I been to so many concerts so like how music can also be felt as well heard

Here are a few more I would love also
http://www.goldmund.com/products/reference/
and the Trio L07D http://vantageaudio.com/photo/kenl07dd.jpg



So what makes a turntable 'special' for you? What turns you on design-wise, provenance, or in terms of sonic/musical presentation?

Marco.

niklasthedolphin
14-10-2008, 19:02
With money no object, what would be your ultimate turntable? Please provide a picture of it or a link to a picture of it.

If I had the room, and there was one available at the right price, this is what I'd buy:

http://www.shawsounds.com/of_interest

Somewhat 'utilitarian' and industrial looking perhaps, but I just *know* it would sound awesome. I love the arm and cartridge, too. I must admit that I adore high-quality classic broadcast equipment.

Does anyone know if this is what the likes of BBC Radio 1 would have used to broadcast the chart show on Sunday nights during the very early 80s before CD was invented? I think they even used Garrards at one time...

I always thought the sound quality on the chart show was superb during that era (I used to tape it regularly - sad I know! :eyebrows:), not like now at any time on commercial radio! You can hear the thin sounding compressed MP3 recordings and playback equipment used nowadays.

The EMT 150 and Denon DP-100 are the only T/Ts on the planet that I'd swap my KAB 1210 for :)

Guys, what is your ultimate T/T?

Marco.

I know you have this pasion for DD TT's whatever the compromise.
However, did you ever actualy hear the EMT monsters?

I've been working with those things in broadcasting studios and was offered different models at a few occasions for my self.
But listening to music for enjoyment on these machines is a little like driving a tractor in an F1 race.

Klink-klonk-rumble around- hummmmm-bzzzzzz-ding-katjang.

They don't realy deserve many stars for the good sound but they last well if you are aware of components tending to burn out.
These were build for regular maintainance.
Therefor no reason to stuff them with super components.
Mechanics are heavy and sturdy just needing heavy duty grease - the one you also use on your Massey Ferguson.
:lolsign:

"dolph"

Marco
14-10-2008, 19:09
Each to his or her own, dude. I know plenty of very happy EMT owners, as I do SP10 and 1210 owners. I think satisfied Systemdek owners are fairly thin on the ground, though - maybe they're all fed up changing their worn-out elastic bands? :lol:

Belt-drive T/Ts: savour the waver!

;)

Marco.

niklasthedolphin
14-10-2008, 19:21
Each to his or her own, dude. I know plenty of very happy EMT owners, as I do SP10 and 1210 owners. I think satisfied Systemdek owners are fairly thin on the ground, though - maybe they're all fed up changing their worn-out elastic bands? :lol:

Belt-drive T/Ts - savour the waver!

;)

Marco.


Well

What an ignorant attitude.
tsk tsk

"dolph"

Marco
14-10-2008, 19:23
I'm winding you up, dafty - just as you were me about EMTs... ;)

You like what you like and I'll like what I like. Simple!

Marco.

pure sound
14-10-2008, 20:45
Steady on, one of the best TT's I've heard was belt drive. This one. (tape drive actually)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/morsianionTT.jpg

I think the uncertainty/instability that can sometimes be heard is as much a function of the suspension system reacting against the belt drive as the belt drive itself. Fixed, heavy belt drives don't tend to wobble.

One I'd like to hear would be the rim drive Teragaki Sigma. I've seen pictures of various of this outfit's creations over the years. He's obviously barking ;) but you have to admire the effort.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/sigma.jpg

and some of the prototypes

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/sigmaproto.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/tera_proto1.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/tera_proto2.jpg

More here. I don't know if Vantage actually have one of these beasts.
http://vantageaudio.com/info/sigma.htm

Marco
14-10-2008, 20:48
Bloody hell, there's some bling and over-complicated 'fifth-year science projects' in there, Guy :eyebrows:

Interesting pictures though!

Marco.

pure sound
14-10-2008, 20:59
I think the second prototype down is actually built (or placed) atop an off the shelf 'active' isolation table as used for electron microscopes & suchlike in laboratories.

Given what some people spend on fancy racks & expensive turntables I'm surprised more people don't investigate these. By 'audiophile' standards they aren't that expensive.

http://www.techmfg.com/products/labtables/20series.htm

& watch the little video here

http://www.minusk.com/content/home.html

Marco
14-10-2008, 21:06
I think the second prototype down is actually built (or placed) atop an off the shelf 'active' isolation table as used for electron microscopes & suchlike in laboratories.


Indeed. They'd look far more at home in a lab than a living room! I'll stick with the 'functional simplicity' of the 1210...

I'll check out the video - cheers :)

Marco.

Ali Tait
14-10-2008, 21:15
Not that I pretend to know anyfin bout turntables,but haven't I read about peeps using video tape as a belt on suitable decks as it doesn't stretch?

niklasthedolphin
14-10-2008, 21:47
Not that I pretend to know anyfin bout turntables,but haven't I read about peeps using video tape as a belt on suitable decks as it doesn't stretch?

Belt driven TT's with non-stretchable belts are plentyfull and also a modification possible on almost all BD's.
If you think it sounds better.
That's not always the result.

"dolph"

pure sound
14-10-2008, 22:03
it won't sound better on a suspended deck as it will severely compromise the isolation afforded by the suspension system in the lateral plane.

dmckean
15-10-2008, 00:08
I think the second prototype down is actually built (or placed) atop an off the shelf 'active' isolation table as used for electron microscopes & suchlike in laboratories.

Given what some people spend on fancy racks & expensive turntables I'm surprised more people don't investigate these. By 'audiophile' standards they aren't that expensive.

http://www.techmfg.com/products/labtables/20series.htm

& watch the little video here

http://www.minusk.com/content/home.html


Do the tables make any noise?

shane
15-10-2008, 00:41
Do the tables make any noise?
No, but if it needs an 80psi air supply, that'll make an almighty din in your sitting room!.
Actually they do make a little noise. If you lean on one it will sink slightly, followed by a click and a hiss as it jacks itself back to level, taking you with it. A very strange sensation if you fall asleep over your semiconductor inspection microscope at 4 in the morning on a night shift.

griffo104
15-10-2008, 07:33
I think the second prototype down is actually built (or placed) atop an off the shelf 'active' isolation table as used for electron microscopes & suchlike in laboratories.

Given what some people spend on fancy racks & expensive turntables I'm surprised more people don't investigate these. By 'audiophile' standards they aren't that expensive.

http://www.techmfg.com/products/labtables/20series.htm

& watch the little video here

http://www.minusk.com/content/home.html

Michael Fremer has reviewed similar platforms in his column in Stereophile.

Marco
15-10-2008, 08:32
If money were no object I'd love to have one of these to play with.

http://www.elpj.com/main.html

I have no idea how it sounds, but it is apparently quite resistant to surface noise, which is attractive to me. Not to mention the reduced wear on your collection :)

Like Guy, I heard one of these at a show and was impressed with its performance, not just in terms of sound quality but how it played damaged records extremely well. It's undoubtedly a clever bit of technology.

However, it's not for me because a) it's as fugly as sin and reminds me of an old laserdisc player from the 80s, and b) for me it takes all the fun and 'romance' out of owning a T/T and playing records because there's no arm or cartridge to use or 'fiddle' with. I love dicking around with different cartridges, and hearing their effect, so for me it's a no-no.

I guess it's a bit like automatic transmission cars - very practical, but in general about as much fun to drive as a Lexus on a rally track.

Marco.

Marco
15-10-2008, 08:59
Simply too many turntables that I would want.

Speaking of DD decks I've always wanted a Trio L07D but they are pretty rare and go for too much money 2nd hand at the moment.

I'd like a Brinkmann LaGrange

I'd like a Rockport Sirius III - which I was lucky enough to hear at a hifi show a long time ago.

I'd like a Kuzma Stabi XL

I'd like something by Simon Yorke.

I own a Michell deck - I've always loved the look and quality of the design, even though I know bouncey decks aren't everyones cuppa. I'm happy to be able to own something I'd admired from a distance and doubt I'll ever get rid of it.

I'd like to hear what all the fuss about the Caliburn deck is all about - I rather like it's retro US diner looks as well.

I'd like to get to hear one of the Immedia decks, I get to read about them in Stereophile but they don't seem to have really been available over here.

I want to hear the GP Monaco

I loved the Avid Acutus when I heard it many years ago now.

So many turntables, so little time (and most importantly so little money). I just adore the design and craftsmanship og turntables.

I can only think of 2 cd players I would really want.

Now don't get me started on the arms and cartridges I would want as well.

It's no wonder vinyl has still lived on, albeit in a niche. They are just so much more interesting and enjoyable than any digital source component I've yet to come across.

Griffo,

Too right! Digital is so lacking in tactility and positively 'frigid' in comparison!

I'm with you in most of your choices above (as they're interesting designs), save the GP Monaco, but you know my thoughts on the GPM. I understand the pride of ownership factor of these items, and I too value this, but ultimately it's the mark-up of paying for an 'audiophile badge' which sticks in my throat most. I don't mind paying for out-and-out performance (within reason) but not for a brand's perceived 'prestige' value!

The fact is it's the 'audiophile badge' which adds more to the cost of 'super high-end' gear than anything else, and I just won't play the game even though I have the financial wherewithal to dabble in that market. This type of gear must be 'seen' as expensive to appeal to the sensibilities of certain audiophiles. That's just not where I'm at with hi-fi, and why one can often find equipment in the professional sector of audio which offers comparable or superior performance at far more realistic prices simply because it's free from high-end hi-fi marketing bullshit.

However in saying that the turntable which intrigues me most at the moment, and which is non-direct drive, is this:

http://www.continuumaudiolabs.com/

I think it looks absolutely gorgeous, as it has both a retro (which I love) and contemporary feel to its design - I love for example the look of the tonearm. Apparently it sounds fabulous, too!

On a somewhat simpler level, I admire the Dr Feickert designs, and of course the georgous Platine Verdier. Another I like are the Scheu Analogue range of turntables and tonearms. I imagine this, for example, would sound superb:

http://www.scheu-analogue.com/gallery/premier1.jpg

Marco.

niklasthedolphin
15-10-2008, 10:16
Griffo,

Too right! Digital is so lacking in tactility and positively 'frigid' in comparison!

I'm with you in most of your choices above (as they're interesting designs), save the GP Monaco, but you know my thoughts on the GPM. I understand the pride of ownership factor of these items, and I too value this, but ultimately it's the mark-up of paying for an 'audiophile badge' which sticks in my throat most. I don't mind paying for out-and-out performance (within reason) but not for a brand's perceived 'prestige' value!

The fact is it's the 'audiophile badge' which adds more to the cost of 'super high-end' gear than anything else, and I just won't play the game even though I have the financial wherewithal to dabble in that market. This type of gear must be 'seen' as expensive to appeal to the sensibilities of certain audiophiles. That's just not where I'm at with hi-fi, and why one can often find equipment in the professional sector of audio which offers comparable or superior performance at far more realistic prices simply because it's free from high-end hi-fi marketing bullshit.

However in saying that the turntable which intrigues me most at the moment, and which is non-direct drive, is this:

http://www.continuumaudiolabs.com/

I think it looks absolutely gorgeous, as it has both a retro (which I love) and contemporary feel to its design - I love for example the look of the tonearm. Apparently it sounds fabulous, too!

On a somewhat simpler level, I admire the Dr Feickert designs, and of course the georgous Platine Verdier. Another I like are the Scheu Analogue range of turntables and tonearms. I imagine this, for example, would sound superb:

http://www.scheu-analogue.com/gallery/premier1.jpg

Marco.


For once I will agree with you.
The Caliburn TT is amazing, looks amazing and I gues will also sound amazing.

I have yet to hear it though.

"dolph"

Marco
15-10-2008, 10:50
Yes, Dolph, the Continuum is undoubtedly a beautiful thing but ridiculously priced. I would love to know how the final retail price is calculated for such items. I know that this type of equipment is hugely expensive to make, but a big part of the final pricing is quite simply ascertaining what the market will stand, and that's when the 'audiophile badge' and commensurate price tag comes in...

I consider the process as somewhat 'inventive' ;)

Marco.

Beechwoods
15-10-2008, 18:54
Like Guy, I heard one of these at a show and was impressed with its performance, not just in terms of sound quality but how it played damaged records extremely well. It's undoubtedly a clever bit of technology.

However, it's not for me because a) it's as fugly as sin and reminds me of an old laserdisc player from the 80s, and b) for me it takes all the fun and 'romance' out of owning a T/T and playing records because there's no arm or cartridge to use or 'fiddle' with. I love dicking around with different cartridges, and hearing their effect, so for me it's a no-no.

I guess it's a bit like automatic transmission cars - very practical, but in general about as much fun to drive as a Lexus on a rally track.

Marco.

I think that for me half the attraction is that it is different. I love these cul-de-sac technologies. You mention laserdisc, and I've occasionally toyed with the thought of getting an old CED player which was a videodisc that relied upon a grooved disc read by an electronic stylus... kind of fascinating. The same with this all-analogue laser turntable. The only thing that puts me off is a) price and b) the fact that discs need to be fastidiously clean.

I personally quite like the look of it, but then I have a DA-20 MkII DAT machine and like the look of that so in some respects my tastes could be said to be 'niche' :)

Oh, and I drive an automatic (http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i29/2924_6lo.jpg) but have to say that in 4wd, on dodgy ground, I'd want to be in nothing else :)

dmckean
16-10-2008, 00:32
No, but if it needs an 80psi air supply, that'll make an almighty din in your sitting room!.
Actually they do make a little noise. If you lean on one it will sink slightly, followed by a click and a hiss as it jacks itself back to level, taking you with it. A very strange sensation if you fall asleep over your semiconductor inspection microscope at 4 in the morning on a night shift.

http://minusk.com/content/products/standard/bm-8.html

This looks better than the air table and looks as though it would fit in better with the living room decor.

griffo104
16-10-2008, 08:15
Yes, Dolph, the Continuum is undoubtedly a beautiful thing but ridiculously priced. I would love to know how the final retail price is calculated for such items. I know that this type of equipment is hugely expensive to make, but a big part of the final pricing is quite simply ascertaining what the market will stand, and that's when the 'audiophile badge' and commensurate price tag comes in...

I consider the process as somewhat 'inventive' ;)

Marco.

I really can't think of another deck I really want to hear. I have the original review in Stereophile where Fremer goes in to detail of the research and design of the decks, the designer did stuff for nautical applications and built decks for a hobby until someone with money came along and asked him to do it on a larger scale. I mean have you seen the arm that matches with this deck ?

There's a dealer in the UK now advertising that they stock it so it must now have UK distribution. The deck has a lot on it including a very clever vacuum platter and the table that comes with it costs about $15k :doh:

What this deck does highlight though is another thing I like about turntables. Most decks, especially hifi badged ones, are the result of one person trying to design something for themselves more than any genuine financial reasons. It's their take on the art form. Let's admit it SME did arms and decks because one person, who happened to be in charge, loved vinyl, it's not their main business but was lead by a passion, the same with comapnies like Michell. I doubt we'll ever see a complete new design from them now that John Michell is sadly no longer with us.

I think this is why so many high end turntables cost what they do. they are produced in small numbers, normally by companies or people involved in engineering of some sort, require high tolerances and quality manufacture if they are to be successful.

I find the Monaco design very interesting and again their main business is in the motor car racing business not hifi. I'm sure the design and manufacture of the deck isn't particularly cheap and I doubt they'll even sell in volumes of four figures. All this ups the final cost when it hits retail.

I'm sure a deck like the SL1210 would cost a lot more if thousands of djs hadn't gone out and bought it. You will always pay mpre for a cartridge from Lyra or Koetsu where it's design and manufacture is performed by one person than a cart by Denon who have huge economies of scale. I have a very sofy spot for Lyra because Jonathon Carr comes across as a genuine music lover interested in people's views. He was on PFM for a while and came across as a top bloke who really wanted to understand what users (and potential users) of his carts wanted from them and the applications they used them in. Not many designers of high end gear take the time and interest to do such things.

niklasthedolphin
16-10-2008, 10:56
http://minusk.com/content/products/standard/bm-8.html

This looks better than the air table and looks as though it would fit in better with the living room decor.

Devices like these are needed for people who neglect the quality of soft sprung subchassis TT's.
:-)

"dolph"

Marco
16-10-2008, 16:03
This is also rather nice and ticks the right boxes. It definitely comes under the category of a 'proper' turntable:

http://www.toneimports.com/shindo/garrard301.html

Love the tonearm (and of course the lovely SPU attached)!

Marco.

Cotlake
17-10-2008, 01:01
Hi Marco,

Hmm, I suspect those three pictures are computer montage. If they are, what faith could you have in the real product without physical trial?

Best wishes,

Greg

Marco
17-10-2008, 06:22
Hi Greg,

Interesting, but I don't think that's the case, apart from perhaps the first image, which I admit does look computer-generated probably for effect... What makes you think they all are? I've bought stuff from Tone Imports before (my A23 step-up transformer) and have exchanged dialogue with the German chap who runs the company. He's a genuine person and a hi-fi enthusiast of many years.

I'll pass on your comments to him and post his reply here if you like :)

I think that 301 looks the dog's bollocks!

Marco.

griffo104
17-10-2008, 07:43
Hi Greg,

Interesting, but I don't think that's the case, apart from perhaps the first image, which I admit does look computer-generated probably for effect... What makes you think they all are? I've bought stuff from Tone Imports before (my A23 step-up transformer) and have exchanged dialogue with the German chap who runs the company. He's a genuine person and a hi-fi enthusiast of many years.

I'll pass on your comments to him and post his reply here if you like :)

I think that 301 looks the dog's bollocks!

Marco.

I agree that table looks bloomin' lovely.

Shindo make some excellent 'old style' valve amps. Art Dudley dedicated his column to a couple of them in Stereophile. After reading that column I'm not surprised Shindo have produced a table like that. The designer firmly believes in the old school way of doing things, his amps are designed very much using valves and technology that was fashionable in the 50's.

I would expect a turntable they produced to be very similar ethos.

Marco
17-10-2008, 08:57
Griffo,

Yep, it's precisely that sort of ethos I like because it harks from the days when hi-fi equipment (particularly turntables) was built properly with little or no expense spared. Unlike so much of todays cheap, mass-produced stuff... And that tonearm is bloody gorgeous!

With turntables I like things which look as if there's some serious engineering gone into the design, as let's face it, that's what a T/T is about and what makes it tick. It's not difficult to hear the sonic benefits when you listen. That's why flimsily made T/Ts (in comparison) like Regas, Pro-Jects, Systemdeks (sorry Dolph!), LP12s etc, don't do it for me because in terms of solid engineering they're quite simply toys in comparison to Garrards, SP10/1210s, and a host of other classic turntables.

Nowadays you have to pay fortunes for similar standards of engineering, so that's why I champion the values of classic turntables (and other classic bits of kit) so much. There hasn't been as much progress with hi-fi equipment in the last fifty-odd years as people might think!

Marco.

griffo104
17-10-2008, 11:07
This is another nice arm that would do the job on that 301 :

http://www.toneimports.com/emt/tonearm.html

Marco
17-10-2008, 11:26
Too right! EMT tonearms are quality. I'm going to see if I can get one of the 9" ones to fit my 1210, or perhaps one of the new Ortofons:

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2382

and partner it with an EMT XSD-15:

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/emt/xsd-15.shtml

or a nice SPU Royal:

http://www.coolgales.com/store/cart.php?target=product&product_id=175&substring=ortofon+spu

with matching transformers, once (or if) I get fed up using the modified Technics arm and the various DL-103 variants. And the whole lot will be housed in a nice Slatedeck plinth.

Do you approve? :smoking:

Marco.

griffo104
17-10-2008, 11:34
Do you approve? :smoking:



You have my FULL approval :eyebrows:

Marco
17-10-2008, 11:49
You know that makes all the difference, dahling ;)

Marco.

griffo104
17-10-2008, 14:48
You know that makes all the difference, dahling ;)

Marco.

Marco's Wife : Hm dear have you been buying new analogue equipment for the turntable, methinks there's a new tonearm and cartridge on that deck.

Marco : hmmmm there might be, not sure where they came from :confused:.

Marco's wife : so they just appeared from out of fresh air ?

Marco : It's ok Griffo gave his approval

Marco's Wife : Oh very good, pour the wine and slap a record on the deck and place the needle in the groove, let's rock.

I'm sure this works in most domestic situations ;)

Need and excuse for hew hifi - get Griffo's approval and that's everything sorted. Sweet.

Marco
17-10-2008, 15:44
Hehe... You know me so well, baby ;)

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo
05-12-2010, 23:18
From The Grave
Here's one that should get a few folks Googling and posting. There are plenty of new folks who should have something to add to this one.

Darren
05-12-2010, 23:44
Back in the eighties, the Music Room at Manchester were invited to put together a system for one of the magazines. They chose a pink triangle with Syrinx PU3 and Koetsu Black. Amps were Audio Research Sp8 and D115, while speakers were Dahlquist DQ10.
The reviewer loved this taste of the High end and I've wanted to hear it, especially the front end ever since.
As a matter of fact I've got a pink triangle just waiting for a bit of resto before being used in my work system.

If I had the money, I'd also approach someone like Tom Fletcher and ask him what he would make if cost were no object.....
I always fancied one of those Anna-log turntables he used to make to order. They were strange looking things but fascinating.

Darren
05-12-2010, 23:58
Just one more thing.....
I've owned a few Audio Note products and they've all been wonderfully musical and natural sounding. So i guess that Peter Qs top of the range TT3 must be the bollocks:
http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/analogue/tt-3_01.shtml

Peter's own vinyl collection is legendary.... So i bet this TT has had plenty of development time....

The Grand Wazoo
06-12-2010, 00:04
Darren,
You obviously don't know that Tom Fletcher sadly left us just a few weeks ago...........

chris@panteg
06-12-2010, 09:28
I was thinking of a something a little different :scratch:

If money was no object (lottery as if:lolsign: )

I would ask Simon Yorke to build me a one off , after some consultation of course and end up with something totally unique :)


http://www.recordplayer.com/

Tea24
06-12-2010, 09:34
Well for me it has to be Notts Analogue, with the proviso of a speed controller to get the speed 'sphincter tight'. Why? Heavy mass, unsuspended; all it consists of is a fabulously engineered bearing and a heavy mass platter; simplicity itself! I can only afford (& have) the entry level Junior model coupled with a Pro-ject speed box, but with The Notts arm & a good cartridge it really sings! I too would love an Anna Log; also quite like to try a VPI.

MartinT
06-12-2010, 11:59
SME Model 30 with my Dynavector arm :)

Rare Bird
06-12-2010, 13:10
My Ultimate turntable was my old late model Logic 'DM101' (i distinctly remember this as my 40th turntable at that time)..I certainly wouldnt buy a new turntable nowadays if i were to ever go back to vinyl (fat chance of that happening)..I believe i came as far as i possibly could with that deck as all the new stuff that came after was just de-grade after de-grade for me.. i've heard a few flashy decks over the last ten years in which i wouldnt give shelf space tbh.

Marco
06-12-2010, 19:40
SME Model 30 with my Dynavector arm :)

You're not serious, surely? Sonically, that would be a downgrade from what you've got now (and I am serious)!! ;)

Marco.

Dave Hewitt
06-12-2010, 19:48
I would love a garrard 301 just to look at,a friend got two from a car boot recently for 10 offered him 15 for them but he wouldnt bite.Well I can always dream.
Dave.:doh:

Techno Commander
06-12-2010, 20:10
I always lusted after a black Gyrodec.
But if I had the necessary, any of these would be nice to own.

Basis "Work of Art" ($150K!!)
http://futuremusic.com/news/images/basis_audio_work-of-art.jpg

Clearaudio Champion II
http://www.lonestarbottleheads.org/gallery/albums/011908/Dsc_0108.jpg

Pioneer plc-590
http://onepixeldesign.com/stereo/PLC590.jpg

Baasner turntable. Dont know how it works, or what it does. But seems strangely compelling
http://www.wists.com/thumbnails/2/f6/2f6cf6a73573aba90acc56e2b6e7d530-orig

However, I would be more than happy with a Technics SL 1610.
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_pic.php?pic_id=15372&full=true&user_id=35810

MartinT
06-12-2010, 20:16
You're not serious, surely? Sonically, that would be a downgrade from what you've got now (and I am serious)!! ;)

You could well be right, Marco, I was just citing a dream from years ago. Actually, I am very satisfied with what I have now ;)

Marco
06-12-2010, 20:40
Lol - I'm very confident I am right... ;)

Once you get your SR5, if you want to upgrade from what you've got then, it's one of these you'll need:


http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3531/106continue.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/106continue.jpg/)


Marco.

Ian Walker
06-12-2010, 20:47
I would love a garrard 301 just to look at,a friend got two from a car boot recently for 10 offered him 15 for them but he wouldnt bite.Well I can always dream.
Dave.:doh:

Bloodyell Dave your a reet mingebag...you couldve at least offered 20:rolleyes:

Ian Walker
06-12-2010, 20:50
Lol - I'm very confident I am right... ;)

Once you get your SR5, if you want to upgrade from what you've got then, it's one of these you'll need:


http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3531/106continue.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/106continue.jpg/)


Marco.

Yuk that is bloody ORRIBLE:(

pure sound
06-12-2010, 21:02
Lol - I'm very confident I am right... ;)

Once you get your SR5, if you want to upgrade from what you've got then, it's one of these you'll need:


http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3531/106continue.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/106continue.jpg/)


Marco.

A rubber band powered deck Marco? Are you sure? ;)


Conceptually I like the Rockport Sirius with its directly driven platter supported by a frictionless air bearing spindle. However I've only heard one at a show & couldn't comment on its merits based on that. As I'm unlikely to find one or afford one I'll have to see whether something similar can't be realised.

I (and a couple of others) have the bearings. It's the air supply & control electronics that'll be the fun part.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/airbearing2.jpg

Marco
06-12-2010, 21:25
Lol - it comes in different finishes, Ian :)

Guy, I know, what was I thinking of!! :eyebrows:

In any case, I only used the Continuum as the example because at 120k (or so) it's one of the most expensive you can buy!

Not exacty a 'looker', either, but I'd have Ritchie (Frog-n-Oatcakes' - he's just joined) Denon DP-100 as my 'ultimate T/T', any day:


http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4121/p1060943.jpg (http://img507.imageshack.us/i/p1060943.jpg/)


http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4158/p1060927.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/i/p1060927.jpg/)


I just *love* top-notch professional broadcast T/Ts (and anything with VU meters)!!!


Or, most definitely a 'looker', but perhaps not necessarily any better sonically than my Techie, this utterly gorgeous Garrard 301 (love the tonearm, too and of course the cartridge is a classic ;)):


http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4162/3013.gif (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/3013.gif/)


:cool:

Marco.

P.S As an aside, check out Richie's Leben preamp for sale: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=169020#post169020

Have you ever seen anything so GORGEOUS? :stalks:

MartinT
06-12-2010, 21:34
The Caliburn is quite something...

Marco
06-12-2010, 22:48
Yes, I love some of the novel engineering concepts of its design, but I've never heard one.

My heart still lies with the 'built like a brick shithouse' vintage D/Ds and idlers, though :)

However, since fitting the Mike New platter to the Techie, the sound is so utterly stunning that I'm not in the least bit thinking about any of the above, or what I might be 'missing out' on (not in the slightest)!

Btw, how did you get on with your mat shenanigans? I never did hear the outcome. I'll be summarising my thoughts on my own trials in that area on the other thread tomorrow - meant to do it today, but got caught up in a few other things :cool:

Marco.

MartinT
07-12-2010, 06:48
Btw, how did you get on with your mat shenanigans? I never did hear the outcome. I'll be summarising my thoughts on my own trials in that area on the other thread tomorrow - meant to do it today, but got caught up in a few other things :cool:

I haven't had much time at home in the evenings of late so I'm still comparing. I'll hopefully finish up tonight and will summarise.

Alex_UK
07-12-2010, 08:52
Never heard one (except on the Tomb Raider film, but I doubt it was really playing) - this would be mine:

Clearaudio Master Reference with Reference TQ-1 linear tracking tonearm:

http://www.avpartner.com.hk/images/photo/Clearaudio%20Master%20Reference.jpg

DSJR
07-12-2010, 09:30
You guys have got it all wrong you know :lol: The better the deck really is, the more limiting the vinyl becomes, unless you only play test records, 12" singles or excellent direct cuts... :ner:

You need one of these -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/e922e7c9.jpg

- or something very similar :D

In my opinion, so many of these fancy decks are like sledgehammers trying to crush a grape. I admit to preferring the simple approach - NAS for me and Technics for many others of you. The rest, to me admittedly, are just mugs eyefulls ;)



P.S. You lot really ought to hear a vintage record player or two to fully appreciate just how good your stereos are...

Spectral Morn
07-12-2010, 10:49
Never heard one (except on the Tomb Raider film, but I doubt it was really playing) - this would be mine:

Clearaudio Master Reference with Reference TQ-1 linear tracking tonearm:

http://www.avpartner.com.hk/images/photo/Clearaudio%20Master%20Reference.jpg

Very nice TT a friend of mine has one but he uses a Graham Phantom on his.

regards D S D L

chris@panteg
07-12-2010, 10:52
You're not serious, surely? Sonically, that would be a downgrade from what you've got now (and I am serious)!! ;)

Marco.

Hi Marco

Better than a model 30 ? in the words of John McEnroe ' er well you know the rest :)

Such a statement will need backing up ! don't get me wrong Marco i love the 1210 and do believe and have heard how much better it can get after modification but jeez i would not make any huge claims for it .

The thing is ! no matter how much money you throw at this SL1200 or 1210 it will always retain a certain sonic flavour which will not suit all taste's and its limited by its chassis construction .

Just my two pennies worth :)

DSJR
07-12-2010, 13:07
When I last heard the SME 20 and 30, all I could hear were the flaws in the records themselves, the decks not seeming to mask or embellish what was there in the grooves as lesser turntables can. The better the disc being played, the better the sound I found, rather than the homogenised sound many other decks plonk on everything. Totally insane pricing though and I didn't even feel the finish was up to top Jap standards either, certainly not at the prices asked.

Tea24
07-12-2010, 14:03
I agree with Dave R (as I said above) I look at and hanker after the likes of Garrard & Thorens TD24 etc, but then I look again & think " Bloody Hell, however well made, that's a complicated bit of kit, with levers & cluches & brakes etc. to link up & fall out of kilter". Tom Fletcher's idea with just a small motor, a heavy platter, a well engineered bearing (and IMHO a speed controller) and nothing to go wrong!. OK, so there must be a bit more than that to give the fine sound they do, but that's the basics and any fule can change the oil once a year (that's right I do it twice as often as recommended, just like my car oil). It'll see me out - - easily.:lolsign::violin:

Spectral Morn
07-12-2010, 14:18
Hi Marco

Better than a model 30 ? in the words of John McEnroe ' er well you know the rest :)

Such a statement will need backing up ! don't get me wrong Marco i love the 1210 and do believe and have heard how much better it can get after modification but jeez i would not make any huge claims for it .

The thing is ! no matter how much money you throw at this SL1200 or 1210 it will always retain a certain sonic flavour which will not suit all taste's and its limited by its chassis construction .

Just my two pennies worth :)

I too wonder about statements like this and it is for that "wondering" that I embarked on getting a Techie myself...to see what is what. The problem though is one man's gold is another man's lead. System synergy, taste etc are all factors in this.

At the moment though to be honest I am just feeling my way through the various Technics related items I have gathered up to see what suits my system and tastes before swinging into full comparison mode.

At some point in time (I don't know when.... way too many things on the go at the minute) I will compare my Technics 1200 to my SME Model 20. That will be very interesting but as I only have one SME 5 arm this will /would require arm swapping :(. Thought The Model 20 with a Graham Phantom (how I normally use it) would make an interesting comparison but I sort of suspect that combination will/would be better in enough areas to make it overall better but I guess that is pre-judging things too much.

Ideally I would love to stick the Graham on the Technics but I think this will be impossible as the side VTA tower may stick out to much and thus not sit in the correct place.

My Graham has an SME base but you have to move the arm to get the correct setting unlike the SME which moves along an inner section of its own base. Because of this the base would have to be flat and would quite likely have to forgo the 5mm drop which other armboards for the Technics have. When I remove my SME 5 from that armboard I will try and see if the Graham will sit on it with correct positioning. All this at some point in the future......

Regards D S D L

MartinT
07-12-2010, 14:30
Ideally I would love to stick the Graham on the Technics but I think this will be impossible as the side VTA tower may stick out to much and thus not sit in the correct place.

Neil, if I could get my Dynavector on the Techie, you surely should have a go at getting the Graham on. Just a small crowbar required... :)

Gerry
07-12-2010, 14:34
I've go to say I've been thinking of an SME recently, a 20 or 30 without the arm

I'm not so sure that belt drives are so bad. Certainly my Alphason Sonata with 2 motors give some of the DD a real run for their money, it's flaw if there is one has always been the Linn mounting. But with a HR100 that' no bad thing. It also weigh a considerable amount 25KG or so!!!

I think an SME with my Audio Craft would be very interesting combo....similar to Neil's (DSDL) SME 20 with a the Phantom. I would be interested to know more Neil.

Spectral Morn
07-12-2010, 14:38
I've go to say I've been thinking of an SME recently, a 20 or 30 without the arm

I'm not so sure that belt drives are so bad. Certainly my Alphason Sonata with 2 motors give some of the DD a real run for their money, it's flaw if there is one has always been the Linn mounting. But with a HR100 that' no bad thing. It also weigh a considerable amount 25KG or so!!!

I think an SME with my Audio Craft would be very interesting combo....similar to Neil's (DSDL) SME 20 with a the Phantom. I would be interested to know more Neil.

I felt that the SME Model 20 with SME 5 arm had a very sat on and safe sound....very matter of fact. With the Graham on it the sound is more open, detailed and has more life to it. By saying that I don't mean its brighter or up front just that music reproduced via that combination feels more alive whereas the SME/5 combination feels less alive.

Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
07-12-2010, 14:53
Neil, if I could get my Dynavector on the Techie, you surely should have a go at getting the Graham on. Just a small crowbar required... :)

Not being able to see all angles of your arm mounted on the Technics but I suspect it is more straight forward that the Graham with SME base,

The VTA side tower sits to the side of the arm and is part of the base rather than sitting above the SME part of the arms bottom....this is the problem. I think that there is not enough space to the side of this tower to sit in the armboard recess on the Technics to give the 5mm extra depth and perhaps the tower might sit too far over to even fit in the arm board mounting area. I will have to try the SME armboard I have and see if anything is possible. Then of course the arm is very big/tall and the cable junction box is huge :doh: Bob does not make it easy to use this excellent arm on a wide range of TTs I had quite a job getting it to go on my SME Model 20 the arm cable is the problem, in that case, as it needs to either come straight out or if it is a right angled plug then you need to be able to reconfigure the angle. New Graham IC70 arm cables have that facility but my older one does not.....but I got it to work by removing the grub screw and allowing the inner part of the plug to move till it sits at the right angle to allow the cable to lie across the inner lower part of the model 20s base.

http://www.analogueseduction.net/pub/files/tonearms/1276445506_PHANTOMS.jpg
Grahams own base mount.

http://www.coolgales.com/store/images/pi_144.jpeg
SME Mount

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s23/darqueknight88/Phantom-bearing6x4.jpg
Close up of bearing with Graham mounting


The Graham may well sit too tall as well, so VTA may be impossible without a pile of stuff sitting on the Technics platter......

Regards D S D l

Marco
07-12-2010, 14:59
Hi Chris,


Better than a model 30 ? in the words of John McEnroe ' er well you know the rest :)

Such a statement will need backing up ! don't get me wrong Marco i love the 1210 and do believe and have heard how much better it can get after modification but jeez i would not make any huge claims for it .

The thing is ! no matter how much money you throw at this SL1200 or 1210 it will always retain a certain sonic flavour which will not suit all taste's and its limited by its chassis construction .

Just my two pennies worth

Lol - well, it uses an elastic band! Need I say more?? ;)

Seriously though, it's not a case of making "huge claims", but simply speaking from a position of experience, which you should know I always do.

Like Dave, I've heard a couple of SME 20s and 30s and, build quality and operational 'feel' aside (which is quite stupendous), sonically they've never really blown me away, because to my ears they share the same 'overtly controlled', somewhat 'straight-laced' voicing of their tonearms (mainly with the sort of cartridges I like to use), and simply lack the fun factor with music I'm used to from my modded Techie.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with them at all; just simply that music played on the SME T/Ts I've heard so far has failed to engage me.

Neil's right, though, there are lots of variables to consider, especially at this rarefied level, so more than ever it's definitely a case of 'YMMV' :)

I think it's true to say though that once your ears are attuned to the unique sonic presentation and musical attributes of a top-notch direct-drive motor unit, nothing else will do. However, I can also imagine some belt-drive T/T aficionados feeling the same way.....

Make no mistake, though: the addition of the Mike New Copper Composite platter propels the Techie into an altogether superior league, sonically; the effect of which you've yet to experience. Martin will know what I'm talking about here from when he heard his T/T with the SR5 PSU.

However, if you're coming to Scalford Hall in March, then hopefully I'll be able to demonstrate what I’m talking about! :cool:

As an aside, look out for a summary of my conclusions on all the mats and platters later. I’m just in the process of finishing writing it.

Marco.

MartinT
07-12-2010, 15:03
LOL, sounds a nightmare. Keep us informed.


I felt that the SME Model 20 with SME 5 arm had a very sat on and safe sound

This is where the DV is so impressive. It has a live, dynamic sound - anything but sat upon. It works impressively well with the Technics, almost made for it (but a tight squeeze).

Marco
07-12-2010, 15:15
I felt that the SME Model 20 with SME 5 arm had a very sat on and safe sound....very matter of fact. With the Graham on it the sound is more open, detailed and has more life to it. By saying that I don't mean its brighter or up front just that music reproduced via that combination feels more alive whereas the SME/5 combination feels less alive.


I completely agree, and indeed have just said as much! :)

*That* is precisely what I don't like about SME T/Ts (and their tonearms when used with the wrong cartridges: read as sonically mismatched), and also precisely what is so different about a modded (or even stock) Techie: music is just so much FUN to listen to, and positively bristles with vim and vigour!

SME T/Ts are too polite sounding, 'holding things in check' way too much for my liking, and to an extent, strangling the life out of music. However, like Neil says, much of that effect is ameliorated with the choice of tonearm and cartridge, although the inherent 'house signature' remains.

Marco.

Darren
07-12-2010, 19:13
Darren,
You obviously don't know that Tom Fletcher sadly left us just a few weeks ago...........

Hi Wazzer,
I certainly didn't know that. Though I did know that he had health problems - he was a great character and a very amusing raconteur. I'm sure Tom will be missed by many, many people.

DSJR
07-12-2010, 20:17
He will, he is, but NAS hasn't been his concern for some time now, I believe since his illness became manifest.

Rare Bird
08-12-2010, 22:13
Lol - well, it uses an elastic band! Need I say more?? ;)



Yer bum's oot the windae :lol:

flapland
08-12-2010, 22:53
Andre

I assume your turntable has three pistons driving the turntable in a delta(ic) formation as per your Signature photo.

Sadly not seen the prototype since it left the Science Museum but did get to see some of the others at Barrowhill.

Marco
08-12-2010, 23:04
Yer bum's oot the windae :lol:

Aye, dropping a wee jobbie on yer daft heid!

:lolsign:

Marco.

flatpopely
08-12-2010, 23:46
A fully NAIMed Phonosophie P3 would be something!

topround
09-12-2010, 01:00
My friend owns a Continuum labs Caliburn with the Cobra arm.

Best TT I have heard to date.
Super quiet, detailed and dynamic, tons of prat. Just a music making beast, sitting in his chair, one does not listen to recordings, but the recorded event!
It really brings you that close to the studio. AS if you were in the room with the artists during the recording.

Many tables have gone thru his system but that is the best that I personally heard. Of course there are so many I have not heard so I am no authority by any stretch.
I have another friend that has a big Redpoint TT with a Kiseki arm and a Triplanar arm.
Another killer table.

I am rich in friends but a poor chap myself, so I consider myself fortunate to have friends with such nice gear!

Prices are truly ridiculous and with the latest batches of LCR phono pre's coming down the pike...get ready for some crazy numbers!!

Mike

chris@panteg
09-12-2010, 08:40
Hi Mike

I would love to see and hear the Caliburn , you lucky thing is all i can say .

What table do you have ? and don't worry about it not being super high end ! hey i'm a poor man too:)

DSJR
09-12-2010, 08:47
A fully NAIMed Phonosophie P3 would be something!

Why would you cripple the P3 so?????? Times has moved on a very long way since 1977 Andrew ;)

flatpopely
09-12-2010, 09:27
Why would you cripple the P3 so?????? Times has moved on a very long way since 1977 Andrew ;)

Time has moved on yes! NAIM P3 is still a mighty fine thing though :lolsign:

Marco
09-12-2010, 10:07
I agree with Andrew, as I've heard a Naim P3. It is very good indeed! :)

So we've moved on a very long way from 1977, have we? Not for me - I don't think we've moved on much, in terms of the out-and-out sound quality of most audio equipment, from bloody 1957!!! :eyebrows:

Marco (who rates the older Naim kit, sonically, much more than the current stuff).

Rare Bird
09-12-2010, 13:26
So we've moved on a very long way from 1977, have we? Not for me - I don't think we've moved on much, in terms of the out-and-out sound quality of most audio equipment



Yeh weve come a long way NOT too right Marco

DSJR
09-12-2010, 21:53
Preamps and phono stages have moved on since 1977 I think, as the valve ones of the period sounded thick and stodgy from memory and ss types sounded veiled. SS power amps have improved out of all recognition IMO as powerful jobbies don't need a bank of low power trannies now, and star earthing coupled with increased use of local rather than global feedback have given them a chance of competing with the better valve amps on listenability and utterly trouncing them on measurements/low bass quality. As for speakers, the efficient ones of 1977 were colured and often squeaky - and that includes Tannoys and JBL's *of this period - unmodified -.* The ineficient ones were better toned, but sapped all the life out of the music if you weren't careful. Turntables were still being bought on their W&F figures and the Linn was entertaining, but very crude and with a pre-fruity "cupped-hands" colouration back then.

No, I think we have it far better now, with analogue and digital sources far closer sonically to the original mastering session IMO, valve and solid state amps performing better than ever, speakers having the potential to sound fantastic for peanuts oh, i haven't even begun to discuss the wires we connect it all up with or the better components we update the old classics with...

P.S. I have it on very good authority that current Naim shows a return to mellower times.

P.P.S That bloody Phonosophie is a Thorens in drag :eyebrows:

flatpopely
09-12-2010, 22:47
P.P.S That bloody Phonosophie is a Thorens in drag :eyebrows:

And that's a problem why?

Would you like to be invited to the first 'RubiKon' public demo or is a deck designed in '73 not worthy?


Andrew.

chris@panteg
09-12-2010, 23:07
Hi Andrew

So the Rubikon is good to go as it were , a few sales just before Xmas then ' you must pretty excited about how its going to be received :)

flatpopely
09-12-2010, 23:30
Hi Andrew

So the Rubikon is good to go as it were , a few sales just before Xmas then ' you must pretty excited about how its going to be received :)

Very close and yes excited!

I think the first batch is all but spoken for.

Andrew.

Marco
09-12-2010, 23:37
I wish you the very best of luck with it, Andrew :)

Marco.

flatpopely
09-12-2010, 23:47
Thanks Marco.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

Only those eating the pudding will decide if the RubiKon is worth the wait.

Andrew.

DSJR
10-12-2010, 08:00
And that's a problem why?

Would you like to be invited to the first 'RubiKon' public demo or is a deck designed in '73 not worthy?


Andrew.

Thorens is the root of all the trouble IMO :lol: The fruitbox has most of its roots in 1968 with the TD150 (the AR's from even earlier never quite "made it" over here by comparison sadly).

I also with you great success with the Rubykon, but I'm too far out and tied here to venture far for a Hifi reason I'm afraid.

shane
10-12-2010, 19:36
Having been fooling around with turntables for the best part of 40 years, I 've ended up with a pretty good idea of what I'd build if I had limitless skill and resources.

Then I found out that Vic had already built it.

http://www.trans-fi.com/turntables.htm

Sting
16-12-2010, 17:54
Epson Seiki prototypes...

Marco
16-12-2010, 17:59
Hi 'Sting',

Welcome to AoS :)

Before we answer your query, could you please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community, by providing your real first name (which I'm sure "The" isn't ;)), system details and music tastes, as this is the required procedure for new members on AoS.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Sting
16-12-2010, 18:27
Correct... This was not The, in fact certainly not "The Police"...
;)
Are you ok now?

John
16-12-2010, 18:56
Having been fooling around with turntables for the best part of 40 years, I 've ended up with a pretty good idea of what I'd build if I had limitless skill and resources.

Then I found out that Vic had already built it.

http://www.trans-fi.com/turntables.htm
Have you heard it yet Its pretty awesome Vic got it sounding even better and perhaps more to come The great thing about the Salvation it really shows every subtle change Vic makes. The other great thing about this TT is the cost and the level it performs at. IMHO the best sound per pound TT around and one of the best regardless of price. Now if only someone would review it

trio leo
06-03-2012, 17:02
If money were no object I'd love to have one of these to play with.

http://www.elpj.com/main.html

I have no idea how it sounds, but it is apparently quite resistant to surface noise, which is attractive to me. Not to mention the reduced wear on your collection :)

Hello Beechwoods,
Years ago I brought this t/table into the UK from Japan, in the hope I could sell them. it was then called the Finial and it was 20,000, maybe they have improved it since then but the one I had at home was extremely revealing in all the musical ways possible, however it also faithfully revealed every click, pop and scratch, granted there was no contact with the record and the 5 lasers were extremely accurate, but it was a bit dissappointing, I didn't sell any and sent it back to Japan.

regards Al

vouk
06-03-2012, 19:32
VYGER Atlantis with Vision parallel tracking tonearm. Having heard it - sublime.

DSJR
06-03-2012, 19:48
I know I've totally lost the plot now, but I'm getting such lovely sounds from my records these days I genuinely don't feel the need for a w@nker's delight kind of bling deck - or even the need for a NAS Dias, which was a deck I'd love to have owned not too long ago. maybe that's just as well, but the Dual 701/Spacemat and V15 III/M20 FL Super do sound so basically good together I don't feel the need to hunger after better. CD players though are a different story however at present, although again, the freaked out Digit Opto continues to surprise me :)

RobbieGong
06-03-2012, 21:44
Wont lie, If I had the money I'd just have to FULLY mod my 1210 MK5g by trying the funk arm (You guys know I wouldn't want to lose the on the fly vta and think it is a gem) or at least the best arm that would fit with on da fly vta included. I would try out a good few upgrade platters as well as commission Paul Hynes and Richard (Vantage) to produce the very best external psu that they could come up with without it being the size of a breeze block :lol:. Finally I'd buy a Ortofon Cadenza Black, PW Winfield and the A90 mc's, set it all up to within an inch of my Techies life and then spend my life grinning :D everytime I saw someones jaw drop :eek: at the sheer sonic beauty and realism of music portrayal coming from a 1210 - Honestly I would and if only I could :lol: :D

MartinT
07-03-2012, 10:08
Go on Rob, you know you'd like a Dynavector arm :)

I'd have everything I have now but would upgrade my PSU to an SR7-27 and my cartridge to a Shelter Harmony.

Dominic Harper
07-03-2012, 10:38
What about one of these

http://www.higherfi.com/ttlist/ttlist.htm

Providing money was no object of course.

Natalie;)

hifi_dave
07-03-2012, 10:45
I like the way they are voting for the best turntable when (maybe) only twenty or so have heard them.:scratch:

MartinT
07-03-2012, 14:35
I'd lay odds that the 'cheap' Continuum would leave them all for dead. Quite astonishing turntable.

Dominic Harper
07-03-2012, 14:47
I like the way they are voting for the best turntable when (maybe) only twenty or so have heard them.:scratch:

Yes I know what you mean, but you would try before you buy.

Natalie;)

RobbieGong
07-03-2012, 17:18
Go on Rob, you know you'd like a Dynavector arm :)

I'd have everything I have now but would upgrade my PSU to an SR7-27 and my cartridge to a Shelter Harmony.

Yes and would pay you to fit and show me how da heck it works cause dat oil rig resembling wonder arm sure looks scientific :lol:

(BTW, read about da Shelter Harmony, very nice high end cart indeed, so I'd add one of them to the list of carts too, money being no object and all that :eyebrows:)

Marco
08-03-2012, 11:17
What about one of these

http://www.higherfi.com/ttlist/ttlist.htm

Providing money was no object of course.


Sorry, Natalie. In my opinion, all the T/Ts in that list are utterly hideous and represent no more than audiophile jewellery for shallow-minded snobs, more interested in owning a 'status symbol' than a proper turntable! :nono:

I wouldn't give any of those monstrosities house room.

If I were ever to replace my gorgeous sounding modded SL-1210, the only T/T, other than a nice TD-124, I'd consider replacing it with, is either this Denon:


http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4064/p1060943v.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/p1060943v.jpg/)


http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/4158/p1060927.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/p1060927.jpg/)

Woo hoo... Look - VU meters, too! :wowzer:

Or a lovely EMT 950:


http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6323/dsc07034ezr.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/dsc07034ezr.jpg/)


I'd fit one of these arms and cartridges to it:


http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2109/emtw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/emtw.jpg/)


And another view:

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/602/emt950342goodezr.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/emt950342goodezr.jpg/)

'Industrial chic' at its best!

There is quite simply nothing to beat the sound of a quality broadcast turntable, which let's not forget the TD-124 was once, and the design of the SL-1200/1210 was based upon :)

Marco.

Dominic Harper
08-03-2012, 11:37
I know, I was just joking with the bling. Anyway, funny you should show the pics of the EMTs. Dom has just received 3 EMT 948s. He is going to have a look at them this weekend and get at least one of them up and running. But they are something else.

My fav is the 401 as it is. I could mention things are very high end which are very nice but I would love, as well you know Marco a TD124 in slate next to our 401.

Natalie;)

Marco
08-03-2012, 11:45
Indeed, and the 401 (and 301) were once professional broadcast turntables, used by the BBC.

Think about it... ;)

They make most 'domestic' turntables look and sound like toys!

Marco.

Rare Bird
08-03-2012, 12:16
I've changed my preferences over the years. I would dearly love another Transcriptor or J.A.Michell Hyd/Fluid arm just for keep sake..

but i'm ever more determined to get my hands on a Sony 'TTS-3000' motor unit, i would settle for the 'TTS-2400/2500' tho..I would easily choose the '3000' over the Garrard '401'.. ;)

Dominic Harper
08-03-2012, 12:47
Horses for courses as they say.

Natalie;)

Beobloke
08-03-2012, 12:54
I still want a Nakamichi TX-1000 and a Thorens TD224 and frankly, I don't care what they sound like!

If my lottery numbers came up, however, rather than buying something new as my reference deck, I'd probably just send my 301 to Dominic at NW Analogue with a blank cheque...

bigmoog
08-03-2012, 18:46
I know I've totally lost the plot now, but I'm getting such lovely sounds from my records these days I genuinely don't feel the need for a w@nker's delight kind of bling deck - or even the need for a NAS Dias, which was a deck I'd love to have owned not too long ago. maybe that's just as well, but the Dual 701/Spacemat and V15 III/M20 FL Super do sound so basically good together I don't feel the need to hunger after better. CD players though are a different story however at present, although again, the freaked out Digit Opto continues to surprise me :)



hang on a minute Dave, the BM has a w@nker's deelite chrome bling machine :D

and with associated top notch tonearms with modified deccas and denons, my masturbation machine rilly pleases me:stalks::ner:

high mass thread drive is the future and the past

and i speak as a former Linn fanboi....im alright now of course

chelsea
08-03-2012, 18:57
Voyd reference or soopped up 301.

Alex_UK
08-03-2012, 20:24
Every time I read your signature BM I laugh so much a little bit of widdle comes out! :D

Lynn Olson
08-03-2012, 23:23
Sorry, Natalie. In my opinion, all the T/Ts in that list are utterly hideous and represent no more than audiophile jewellery for shallow-minded snobs, more interested in owning a 'status symbol' than a proper turntable! :nono:

I wouldn't give any of those monstrosities house room.

If I were ever to replace my gorgeous sounding modded SL-1210, the only T/T, other than a nice TD-124, I'd consider replacing it with, is either this Denon:


http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4064/p1060943v.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/p1060943v.jpg/)


http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/4158/p1060927.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/p1060927.jpg/)

Woo hoo... Look - VU meters, too! :wowzer:

Or a lovely EMT 950:


http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6323/dsc07034ezr.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/dsc07034ezr.jpg/)


I'd fit one of these arms and cartridges to it:


http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2109/emtw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/emtw.jpg/)


And another view:

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/602/emt950342goodezr.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/emt950342goodezr.jpg/)

'Industrial chic' at its best!

There is quite simply nothing to beat the sound of a quality broadcast turntable, which let's not forget the TD-124 was once, and the design of the SL-1200/1210 was based upon :)

Marco.

It was hearing the EMT 930, combined with Ortofon arm and SPU cartridge, that confirmed my impression that the high-industry has truly lost its way over the last 30 years. Before hearing the EMT at Christian's place in Zurich (http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/europe.html), I felt there was something wrong with the over-the-top TT's in the high-end - they sounded slow, ponderous, and did not do justice to recordings of the Fifties and Sixties (most of my record collection).

They were "interesting" on modern audiophile discs - space, air, all the audiophile buzzwords you see in the magazines - but fell on their face if I put on The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, or an early RCA or Columbia classical recording. In a strange way, the high-end turntables drew your attention to all the flaws in the recording - or pressing - while subjectively slowing down the music and flattening out the tone colors. This, in turn, subtly forces the owner of the TT to favor audiophile records instead of real music. If your hifi only sounds good on 20 or 30 audiophile-approved records, something is very wrong with your system.

But the EMT sounded "right" in the way I remember my Thorens TD125 or Dual 1229 - only more so, with the unstoppable momentum of a German locomotive going down the tracks. And built like one, too, making other TTs look (and sound) like toys.

That's when the spell of the high-end was really broken. The EMT 930 was better, and the stuff in the magazines was just plain wrong. And if that was so, what about direct-drives, which were also made by EMT?

Marco
08-03-2012, 23:35
Hi Lynn,

What a brilliant article about Christian's place in Zurich - gosh, such a thing would be just right up my street! The event contains many of my favourite passions in life.

I completely agree with your sentiments about quality broadcast turntables versus the piss-poor efforts posing today as supposedly 'high-end' turntables - and at ludicrous prices! :rolleyes:

However, I'm just off to bed, but will comment more on this tomorrow!

Marco.

sq225917
09-03-2012, 08:21
I'd probably settle for a modded version of what i currently have. I'd need to maglev the main bearing, probably add another motor and belt and then come up with some simple and clever isolation set-up.

Like most on here I doubt I'd ever use any deck enough to require the overbuilt qualities of a broadcast deck. I'm lucky If I play 500 hours a year.

Alex_UK
09-03-2012, 08:23
Hi Lynn,

What a brilliant article about Christian's place in Zurich - gosh, such a thing would be just right up my street! The event contains many of my favourite passions in life.

I'll second that - the whole write-up about your trip to Europe was brilliant Lynn, thoroughly absorbing! Thank you!

WOStantonCS100
10-03-2012, 03:32
I would take far too many tables, joyously, if given to me: EMTs, Garrards, Thorens, Rockports, Gates, on and on and on...

But, cost no object, knowing myself, I would probably only purchase two:

Technics SP-10MK3
http://audio-heritage.jp/TECHNICS/etc/sp-10mk3.JPG

and

ELP Laser ("upscale version")
http://www.elpj.com/images/highend-800px.jpg

Lynn Olson
11-03-2012, 05:11
I'll second that - the whole write-up about your trip to Europe was brilliant Lynn, thoroughly absorbing! Thank you!

Well, it certainly broke the spell of the modern high-end ultra-heavy acrylic-platter, DC-motor with belt-drive turntables. DC motors seem to have high vibration levels (you can feel them vibrate in your hand), and without a servo-feedback system, can drift away from speed.

By contrast, AC-synchronous motors are phase-locked to the AC line, so if the platter momentarily slows down, the motor will actually speed up so it won't lose phase-lock, just like a servo-feedback system. There's a reason that cutting lathes always used either AC-synchronous or direct-drive motors; both a phase-locked to an external reference frequency.

So it only makes sense to use a turntable with the same technology when the record is played back; that way, it is effectively phase-locked to the original recording.

A motor that "loses speed" when the platter experiences momentary drag (from stick-slip friction in the main bearing or high levels of HF modulation on the record increasing stylus drag) may keep 33.3 rpm on average, but when you look at the total playing time of the whole side, may be slightly longer since it has no way of internally detecting momentary speed variations and correcting for them. This is unacceptable on a cutting lathe, and on reflection, is just as bad on playback. You really do want the record/play times to be exactly the same, which is a requirement for broadcast applications.

Marco
11-03-2012, 07:48
An excellent and informative post, Lynn :)

I completely agree with this, and is indeed what I've learned from my own experience:


By contrast, AC-synchronous motors are phase-locked to the AC line, so if the platter momentarily slows down, the motor will actually speed up so it won't lose phase-lock, just like a servo-feedback system. There's a reason that cutting lathes always used either AC-synchronous or direct-drive motors; both a phase-locked to an external reference frequency.

So it only makes sense to use a turntable with the same technology when the record is played back; that way, it is effectively phase-locked to the original recording.


There's a distinct 'sound' (inaccuracy of pitch and general ponderousness) with low and medium-mass belt-drive T/Ts, which to my ears sounds 'wrong', in comparison with top-notch direct-drive T/Ts, and it could well be because of what you refer to above.

As a result, there's no doubt in my mind that the former are ultimately more coloured. It won't stop people enjoying listening to them, though - and nor should it.

Marco.

WOStantonCS100
11-03-2012, 07:49
There's a reason that cutting lathes always used either AC-synchronous or direct-drive motors...

:) :) :) :) :)

That point, in particular, has never been lost on me, not since I was nine years old. And, I have often been branded a heretic for even broaching the subject.



I read your write up as well. Nice.

Lynn Olson
11-03-2012, 09:23
Well, you have to think about the torque curve of the motor. If the motor had infinite torque, the speed versus load curve would be flat. Real-world motors - that are not synchronous or servo-corrected - have slanted torque curves, which is another way of saying they slow down with load.

Synchronous or servo-corrected motors have a flat torque curve with a sudden break-point where the motor falls out of the correction range - a synchronous motor will start bucking as it slips a cycle or two, and the servo system will indicate an error condition to prevent motor damage.

Aside from platter sonics (a completely different matter that is unrelated to speed), all a platter and belt do is create a 2-pole (12 dB/octave) lowpass filter for motor vibration. The belt is a compliance (a spring), and the platter, of course, is a mass. Very much like a damper/shock absorber in an automobile.

If the motor has a lot of vibration, a 2-pole lowpass filter is essential for high-fidelity use. It's pretty easy to tell if the motor needs mechanical filtering: when you hold the motor and spin the rotor, does it cog? Believe it or not, a lot of the motors seen on high-priced audiophile turntables are actually stepper motors, and the cogging is very obvious when you hold them in your hand and spin them. Other motors are free of the cogging, but have obvious levels of vibration when they are powered (if you can feel it vibrating when it powered on, yes, it has too much vibration). The smallest groove modulations are comparable to the wavelength of visible light; how acceptable is motor vibration so gross you can feel it in your hand?

So instead of relying on a crude 12 dB/octave mechanical filter, why not improve the motor? This isn't rocket science. Motor vibration is caused by asymmetric waveforms and unequal amounts of current for each motor phase. A motor isn't "intelligent"; like a loudspeaker, it merely converts current into power, nothing more. And if the current is not delivered smoothly, the motor will vibrate.

The typical 4-pole AC motor seen in a lot of turntables connects one phase directly to the incoming AC line (with no filtering), and delays the other phase (about 90 degrees) with a single capacitor. This is no different than the system used on an air-conditioner; that's what the big metal-can "motor-run" capacitor does. There's a problem with the incoming AC power, though; 5% or greater waveform distortion is common, thanks to switching devices and other gizmos on the AC line. When these harmonics pass through the phase-shift capacitor, they are no longer in a 90-degree relationship with the direct-connected phase, so the motor vibration level goes up. A lot. This is why feeding a generic AC motor with a clean 50/60 cycle sinewave reduces the vibration level; it allows the 90-degree phase-shift capacitor to operate in the "textbook" mode with a 50/60 cycle waveform that is free of harmonics.

Does using a DC motor make it better? Well, it's true the motor is no longer exposed to the dirt on the AC powerline - it'll need some kind of power supply with regulation - but DC motors are not quite what they appear. They don't run on DC; instead, they are internally commutated (with either mechanical carbon-brush commutator or Hall-effect switches) and run off the internally generated AC waveform. Which is a square wave, hardly the smoothest way to run a motor. The motor is not exposed to the noise from the AC powerline, true, but it isn't necessarily low vibration, either.

Which is where 3-phase AC comes in. These industrial types of motor can be almost vibration-free, since 3-phase current flow is very close to 100% constant current flow. That's why 3-phase AC is the system of choice for power generation, transmission, and industrial application - it is the most efficient and wastes the least heat. And as a side benefit, rectifies most effectively to smooth DC, and provides motors with the lowest level of vibration. The 50-hp electric motor in my Prius is powered by 3-phase 500V AC, and has less vibration than many turntable motors! This makes sense when you think of it: if a shop-floor motor has any significant amount of power go into vibration instead of rotary shaft power, it will rip itself off the mounts. Instead, they rotate very smoothly, the hallmark of good 3-phase power.

Guess what type of motor are used in direct-drives? You guessed it, 3-phase with independent power for each phase, with servo control of overall frequency. That's why vibration levels are low. Improve the power for the motor, and the turntable will sound even better, since the motor, like a loudspeaker, will faithfully reflect the current that drives it.

A little different than brute-force filtering with a 50-lb platter and belt, isn't it? Like so much in audio, it comes down to good engineering, rather than copying what has always been done. That's why I admire EMT, Thorens, Denon and Technics; it's obvious that the products are designed by engineers that have analyzed the problems, and used innovative ways to solve them.

Ammonite Audio
11-03-2012, 09:40
What's my ultimate turntable? I really don't know, having travelled a path that really started with the LP12, via Nottingham Analogue, Technics and Kenwood DDs, to my current TD124. If you'd asked me a couple of years ago whether I would be blown away by an old idler deck, I would have scoffed. Now I like to keep an open mind, but I do very much admire the design and engineering in the Audio Note TT3 Reference (http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/analogue/tt-3_01.shtml), which is a remarkable thing to hear, when running properly. I particularly like the fact that its polycarbonate platter is very lightweight and the rotational masses are in effect transferred to the massive motors instead; also the belt arrangement provides perfectly symmetrical damping for the sprung sub-chassis (which is designed to be naturally balanced). I don't think I could live with a 'high mass' turntable after experiencing the TT3, even if high mass does have its advantages.

http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/analogue/images/tt-3_01.jpg

Artifolk
11-03-2012, 09:47
I already own the two decks Linn/Techy , but if someone out there wants to part with their Trio/Kenwood L-07D, and someone else wants to part with a Dynavector 507mkII, i may be tempted to part with the above two..:D

bogle111
11-03-2012, 09:56
:) :) :) :) :)

That point, in particular, has never been lost on me, not since I was nine years old. And, I have often been branded a heretic for even broaching the subject.



I read your write up as well. Nice.

I could not have said this better, and yes, a very good write-up Lynn, and your article on motors. Very interesting.

I have over the years "hoarded" in their boxes some of what I considered to be the better of affordable turntables (DD) when many were buying BDrive. Three of them mentioned in this thread as now desirable by different people, yet they all sold very few numbers of them in the UK or Europe as a whole.

Some said we have come a long way since '77? A very few different materials maybe, but the physics, criteria and ultimate goal are still the same.

Where we have come a long way is the acceptance of DD as a good basis for reproduction, which is a great leap forward IMHO.

Regards
Peter

chris@panteg
11-03-2012, 11:46
What's my ultimate turntable? I really don't know, having travelled a path that really started with the LP12, via Nottingham Analogue, Technics and Kenwood DDs, to my current TD124. If you'd asked me a couple of years ago whether I would be blown away by an old idler deck, I would have scoffed. Now I like to keep an open mind, but I do very much admire the design and engineering in the Audio Note TT3 Reference (http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/analogue/tt-3_01.shtml), which is a remarkable thing to hear, when running properly. I particularly like the fact that its polycarbonate platter is very lightweight and the rotational masses are in effect transferred to the massive motors instead; also the belt arrangement provides perfectly symmetrical damping for the sprung sub-chassis (which is designed to be naturally balanced). I don't think I could live with a 'high mass' turntable after experiencing the TT3, even if high mass does have its advantages.

http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/analogue/images/tt-3_01.jpg

The Evolution of the Voyd Reference , never heard this deck but I've heard the old Voyd Ref , magnificent performer .

MartinT
11-03-2012, 12:20
I already own the two decks Linn/Techy , but if someone out there wants to part with their Trio/Kenwood L-07D, and someone else wants to part with a Dynavector 507mkII, i may be tempted to part with the above two..:D

Hmm, an L-07D with a Dynavector arm. That would be truly stunning :)

Marco
11-03-2012, 13:00
Indeed, Martin, but you might be surprised at how close your Techy is now to one, or indeed if it has even surpassed it ;)

I intend to find out where mine is at, in that respect, with a visit soon to Dave's place in Chester. It's been a while since we did the comparison! :cool:

Marco.

Artifolk
12-03-2012, 21:00
Hmm, an L-07D with a Dynavector arm. That would be truly stunning :)

This would be a dream... God knows what cart I'd go for though.

This ones a little to cluttered for me.
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h419/Artifolk/normal_IMG_8546.jpg




I intend to find out where mine is at, in that respect, with a visit soon to Dave's place in Chester. It's been a while since we did the comparison! :cool:

Marco.

This sounds very interesting, considering the spec of your Techy, Vs some alternative decks.
Any idea which decks/spec you'll be going up against?

Look forward to your conclusions.

MartinT
12-03-2012, 21:13
Indeed, Martin, but you might be surprised at how close your Techy is now to one, or indeed if it has even surpassed it ;)

Oh I dare say it's close or better. I simply lust after the Kenwood for its looks :)

gx502
14-03-2012, 10:57
The Evolution of the Voyd Reference , never heard this deck but I've heard the old Voyd Ref , magnificent performer .

Hi Chris,

I had a listen to this deck, at my local hifi (melbourne) hifi show, late last year. It had the TOTL Io-Gold cartridge on it.

(Also AN, did have many cables that cost many multiples the price of my car!!!)

It was the best TT i heard at the show, but i did find that the price was totally obscene. I don't think I would do it even if I was Mr Microsoft, or Mr IKEA, I don't think my conscience would leave me alone.

But it did sound E-X-T-R-E-M-E-L-Y natural. They played "Ghost of Tom Joad" by Bruce S. I would have said that it sounded eerily real, apart from the fact that the AN speakers were very strangely positioned in the demo room (??).

My dream decks are Trio L-07D (I just love the looks), and for listening maybe an EMT (I also grew up listening to BBC-R1 FM transmissions and my mind boggled that it was a tiny diamond being dragged across a 7inch 45rpm single made from re-cycled comb's that was making those beautiful transmissions. I also have a soft spot for ye olde LP12 in a Chris Harban plinth, and selected 3rd party parts (the latest parts from Linn also make my conscience tremble in terms of their pricing).

My comments are fairly light-hearted, so no irritation intended :)

Final note: I am happy with my Technics, and all the decks I listened to at the hifi show, did indicate to me that I am not missing much (even when I heard an AVID Acuutus Ref playing DSOTM on a audiophile pressing, being played with the TOTL Avid phono stage and Ayon amplifiers).

chris@panteg
14-03-2012, 11:27
Hi Chris,

I had a listen to this deck, at my local hifi (melbourne) hifi show, late last year. It had the TOTL Io-Gold cartridge on it.

(Also AN, did have many cables that cost many multiples the price of my car!!!)

It was the best TT i heard at the show, but i did find that the price was totally obscene. I don't think I would do it even if I was Mr Microsoft, or Mr IKEA, I don't think my conscience would leave me alone.

But it did sound E-X-T-R-E-M-E-L-Y natural. They played "Ghost of Tom Joad" by Bruce S. I would have said that it sounded eerily real, apart from the fact that the AN speakers were very strangely positioned in the demo room (??).

My dream decks are Trio L-07D (I just love the looks), and for listening maybe an EMT (I also grew up listening to BBC-R1 FM transmissions and my mind boggled that it was a tiny diamond being dragged across a 7inch 45rpm single made from re-cycled comb's that was making those beautiful transmissions. I also have a soft spot for ye olde LP12 in a Chris Harban plinth, and selected 3rd party parts (the latest parts from Linn also make my conscience tremble in terms of their pricing).

My comments are fairly light-hearted, so no irritation intended :)

Final note: I am happy with my Technics, and all the decks I listened to at the hifi show, did indicate to me that I am not missing much (even when I heard an AVID Acuutus Ref playing DSOTM on a audiophile pressing, being played with the TOTL Avid phono stage and Ayon amplifiers).

Hi Rav

Yes obsene is possibly the right word :eyebrows: it must be getting on for 30k just for the deck now ?

I do miss my Voyd.5 , it was only lacking the huge motors of the Reference , great sounding deck ! I don't miss fitting the drive belt though , that was a proverbial PITA :steam:

Just wondering what spec your Techy is at the moment ? The Acutus is a mighty fine record player , the original psu for it was actually designed by Guy Adams (Voyd)

My 1210 is sounding good but it still falls quite a bit short of my old Voyd ! But then the .5 when new was 4500 , my 1210 with mods is about 850 , great value for money !

gx502
14-03-2012, 11:45
Hi Rav

Yes obsene is possibly the right word :eyebrows: it must be getting on for 30k just for the deck now ?

I do miss my Voyd.5 , it was only lacking the huge motors of the Reference , great sounding deck ! I don't miss fitting the drive belt though , that was a proverbial PITA :steam:

Just wondering what spec your Techy is at the moment ? The Acutus is a mighty fine record player , the original psu for it was actually designed by Guy Adams (Voyd)

My 1210 is sounding good but it still falls quite a bit short of my old Voyd ! But then the .5 when new was 4500 , my 1210 with mods is about 850 , great value for money !

Hi Chris,

my SL1210 is kind of middle of the road: SL1210MK5, MN bearing, Jelco SA-750D, Ortofon LH-6000, Ortofon Kontra-B, Isonoes, TS-STD PSU.

EDIT: recently received Hugo's excellent custom collar for the Jelco, but have not fitted it yet. But, I have not had any azimuth issues at all, my arm has been very consistent. I set azimuth using a piece of 0.5mm pencil lead taped to the top of the headshell and a plastic ruler. I find azimuth is correct across the entire arm's sweep.

(To my suprise the Kontra-B works well in the Jelco, but it does not like my P75 MK2 phono stage. Both the cart and the phono stage are very energetic so it becomes too much of a good thing. The Jelco arm really is a king in the vfm stakes.)

Recently a good friend lent me the Oyaide MJ-12 mat/weight also (these parts give a pretty good boost. My buddy also lent me his Nighthawk phono stage, which also loves the Kontra-B.)

I have not listened to my Techie, since I returned the loaned parts, I might be in for a nasty shock :doh:

In any case the Techie is good enuf, for me not to want for more. Will be happy to buy some more records. (I do have a SME-IV arm, but have not done anything with it yet, I am quite a ditherer !!!!!.)

BTW, was it your SL1200, that I listened to a Thomas Dolby needle drop of from PFM. (It was a techie with a 309 and a Panasonic MM cart). If so sounded good when I played it through my DAC - thanks for that it was quite informative, it told me that SME arms have a very extended bass response, but are not perhaps as 'lyrical' as some other arms...

EDIT2: I am not saying my Techie is a match for the AVID, but I do recall distinctly that I was totally underwhelmed when I heard the AVID, the Audio-Note TT set an extremely high standard. The AVID had a SME-V and a Dynavector DRT XV-1s cart on it.

my kind thanks to you for your generosity, and general thoughtful and honest posts

chris@panteg
14-03-2012, 11:56
Hi Chris,

my SL1210 is kind of middle of the road: SL1210MK5, MN bearing, Jelco SA-750D, Ortofon LH-6000, Ortofon Kontra-B, Isonoes, TS-STD PSU.

(To my suprise the Kontra-B works well in the Jelco, but it does not like my P75 MK2 phono stage. Both the cart and the phono stage are very energetic so it becomes too much of a good thing. The Jelco arm really is a king in the vfm stakes.)

Recently a good friend lent me the Oyaide MJ-12 mat/weight also (these parts give a pretty good boost. My buddy also lent me his Nighthawk phono stage, which also loves the Kontra-B.)

I have not listened to my Techie, since I returned the loaned parts, I might be in for a nasty shock :doh:

In any case the Techie is good enuf, for me not to want for more. Will be happy to buy some more records. (I do have a SME-IV arm, but have not done anything with it yet, I am quite a ditherer !!!!!.)

BTW, was it your SL1200, that I listened to a Thomas Dolby needle drop of from PFM. (It was a techie with a 309 and a Panasonic MM cart). If so sounded good when I played it through my DAC - thanks for that it was quite informative, it told me that SME arms have a very extended bass response, but are not perhaps as 'lyrical' as some other arms...

:) oh wow , yes i would agree about the SME , in some respects i think the stock Techy arm is better on the 1210 , certain LP's I've been playing of late seemed more enjoyable with the STD arm and DL160 I used to use :scratch: But others sound way better with the 309/33EV . Funny old world .

Oh i think this deck will certainly do though :)

gx502
14-03-2012, 12:07
Chris, I edited my post with some more random ramblings -sorry a bad habit of mine, I go for the trigger first, and then refine my thoughts as time passes.

Hey ! - at least I am not trying to crank up my post count :)

chris@panteg
14-03-2012, 12:21
Chris, I edited my post with some more random ramblings -sorry a bad habit of mine, I go for the trigger first, and then refine my thoughts as time passes.

Hey ! - at least I am not trying to crank up my post count :)

:)

I'm not surprised you were underwhelmed compared to the TT Reference , the Acutus/SME V might sound very understated compared to the AN , though it could actually be more accurate ?

When i last heard the Voyd Reference , it sounded very powerful with what seemed like huge amounts of energy and bags of expression ! not sure if it was really accurate but it was bloody marvelous to listen to :) It was with an Audionote arm (Helius based) and IO ltd ,and that is probably my fave all time cart .

gx502
14-03-2012, 12:56
Hi Chris,

perhaps you are right, and it could have been the case that when i reached the AVID room, that i was suffering from hifi show fatigue. I recall really looking forward to the hifi show, and doing a bunk from work, but when I was at the show after 2-3 hours I was maxxed out.

But the AN TT allied to an all valve AN amplification chain, sounded so sweet, a kind of golden tonality, with a sound that was illuminated from within. I say it sounded natural, because the sound did not have any graininess associated with it.

Other mega-buck systems heard on the day made you feel that they wanted to sonically rip your head off your shoulders. And it was a surprise to me how many distributors did not bother to run in their equipment before the show. I heard many pieces of gear that I am familiar with sounding sub-par because I knew darn well that the piece on demo was fresh out of the box.

Ho hum!

Yiangos
16-03-2012, 07:21
OK guys , stop posting lame pics.Here's THE turntable ! :)http://www.stellavox-japan.co.jp/10techdas/index.html

Barry
17-03-2012, 02:04
Shite! - there's more than enough supposed decks that inspire one to 'wank off'. Few live up to the expectations of being a really good deck. Get behind the looks and look at the design and build quality!

Marco
17-03-2012, 05:10
:lolsign:

Barry, stop holding back like a girl and tell it like it really is!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

twelvebears
17-03-2012, 08:27
:lolsign:

Barry, stop holding back like a girl and tell it like it really is!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

:lol: