View Full Version : SACD decoding
ursus262
03-07-2011, 17:47
I'm frustrated to discover that SACD Digital outputs can only go via HDMI and not via the optical outputs of the player, due to licencing restrictions.
That means that I can only use the player's own DAC and output via RCA connectors. I wanted to output the signal so that an external DAC can do the decoding instead. But I can't do that. Most frustrating.
Does anyone have an idea of how to circumvent this?
I'm frustrated to discover that SACD Digital outputs can only go via HDMI and not via the optical outputs of the player, due to licencing restrictions.
That means that I can only use the player's own DAC and output via RCA connectors. I wanted to output the signal so that an external DAC can do the decoding instead. But I can't do that. Most frustrating.
Does anyone have an idea of how to circumvent this?
Nigh on impossible I think, due to the design, for piracy protection I believe.
Stratmangler
03-07-2011, 18:03
Sony BDP http://www.sony.co.uk/product/blu-ray-disc-player/bdp-s370#pageType=TechnicalSpecs and an HDMI switch with optical output http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204port_toslink.htm
Apparently the player will convert the DSD to PCM and output it over HDMI.
ursus262
03-07-2011, 22:08
Thanks guys.
Sony BDP http://www.sony.co.uk/product/blu-ray-disc-player/bdp-s370#pageType=TechnicalSpecs and an HDMI switch with optical output http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204port_toslink.htm
Apparently the player will convert the DSD to PCM and output it over HDMI.
is this common to all blu-ray players?
Stratmangler
05-07-2011, 19:43
is this common to all blu-ray players?
No.
dave2010
07-07-2011, 12:14
No.I have a DVD/SACD player which will apparently convert the SACD stream and output over HDMI. Not much use to me though, as I don't have an AV amplifier which will take an HDMI input.
In any case, for the units (DVD/SACD/Blu Ray) which do that - do they only convert to 44.1kHz 16 bit or some other "lower resolution" format, or do they convert to something more in keeping with SACD quality levels?
My unit will send out audio from DVD-As without problems over SPDIF, but getting an output from SACD seems nigh on impossible, except via the HDMI and buying more kit.
Seems to me that the SACD people didn't really want the format to survive, as by getting so uptight about protection, rip off and DRM, they made sure that no one would actually buy them! Great business model. Even Microsoft aren't that stupid!
Stratmangler
07-07-2011, 12:27
SACD output over HDMI is usually transcoded to 24/88.2 or 24/176.4 PCM.
DVD-Audio has always been capable of being output over S/PDIF, but not necessarily at it's highest resolutions - I have a couple of DVD-A discs that have 24/192 stereo tracks on them, and my player can only output 24/96 over S/PDIF, so the data gets downsampled to permit these discs to output to external decoders.
What's needed is a player that will output the raw DSD stream vis HDMI into a high resolution DAC that will then decode it. Oppo players will do this, I don't know about any others. You will then get SACD quality sound and not DSD converted to PCM which is not going to sound as good
Stratmangler
07-07-2011, 12:30
What's needed is a player that will output the raw DSD stream vis HDMI into a high resolution DAC that will then decode it. Oppo players will do this, I don't know about any others. You will then get SACD quality sound and not DSD converted to PCM which is not going to sound as good
I think you'll find that the Oppo players convert the DSD stream to PCM.
There are not many DACs capable of processing a DSD stream, at least not in the consumer field.
I think you'll find that the Oppo players convert the DSD stream to PCM.
Not the claim made for it by it's owner! (not me I hasten to add). I'll check on this at the weekend it is an interesting point.
Stratmangler
07-07-2011, 12:43
[QUOTE=Stratmangler;231921]I think you'll find that the Oppo players convert the DSD stream to PCM.
[QUOTE]
Not the claim made for it by it's owner! (not me I hasten to add). I'll check on this at the weekend it is an interesting point.
Just spotted this over on Oppo's site
SACD - The BDP-95EU plays Super Audio CD (SACD) and supports both stereo and multi-channel high resolution audio programs. Users can select whether to output the DSD (Direct Stream Digital) signal in its native format over HDMI or convert it into high resolution PCM.
I'd be interested to to know which DAC's (other than dCS) can cope with raw DSD.
[QUOTE=Macca;231926][QUOTE=Stratmangler;231921]I think you'll find that the Oppo players convert the DSD stream to PCM.
Just spotted this over on Oppo's site
I'd be interested to to know which DAC's (other than dCS) can cope with raw DSD.
Well my buddy uses a top of the range Onkyo AV amp which does this with its inbuilt high rez DAC but couldn't give you a model number off the top of my head. It's a couple of years old so you can probably get them for around£500 s/h now - and you get 7 channels of amplification and a pre-amp too!
I'd be interested to to know which DAC's (other than dCS) can cope with raw DSD.
Some of the Esoteric DACS do.
Stratmangler
07-07-2011, 16:43
Some of the Esoteric DACS do.
Yes, but like the dCS stuff they use a proprietary connection, so you'd need to use an Esoteric transport with and Esoteric DAC - you're locked into a single manufacturer for your entire DSD playing experience.
Yes, but like the dCS stuff they use a proprietary connection, so you'd need to use an Esoteric transport with and Esoteric DAC - you're locked into a single manufacturer for your entire DSD playing experience.
This is true, of course.
Stratmangler
07-07-2011, 16:55
Well my buddy uses a top of the range Onkyo AV amp which does this with its inbuilt high rez DAC but couldn't give you a model number off the top of my head. It's a couple of years old so you can probably get them for around£500 s/h now - and you get 7 channels of amplification and a pre-amp too!
This is a decoding development that had passed me by - actually it stands to reason that if you can output DSD via HDMI from a player................:doh: :lolsign:
[QUOTE=Macca;231931][QUOTE=Stratmangler;231928]
This is a decoding development that had passed me by - actually it stands to reason that if you can output DSD via HDMI from a player................:doh: :lolsign:
It sounds bloody good too. Even with red book CD. I've tried to buy the Oppo of him a couple of times but he won't sell and it's the older non-blu-ray model and no longer available anywhere:(
ursus262
08-07-2011, 16:38
This is a decoding development that had passed me by - actually it stands to reason that if you can output DSD via HDMI from a player................:doh: :lolsign:
Oh, yes. My Cambridge 650BD outputs SACD DSD via HDMI. Not much use really :steam:
Stratmangler
08-07-2011, 16:58
Oh, yes. My Cambridge 650BD outputs SACD DSD via HDMI. Not much use really :steam:
Can it convert the DSD to PCM over the HDMI ?
ursus262
10-07-2011, 17:04
Can it convert the DSD to PCM over the HDMI ?
Well, I've had a look at the system settings, and the option exists to output the stream as a PCM over the HDMI, so the answer to your question is 'yes'. The question is: is it worth separating the signal to use a PCM as there are bound to be filtering taking place in the DAC.
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