What's going on?

[kininigin]

I have just noticed a somewhat strange phenomena whilst listening to some music.

When i listen to music,i usually sit right back on my settee,as i was today.

My phone was on the floor,so i lent forward to pick it up.As i did i noticed that kick drums sounded full and hit harder,bass was deeper and the overall focus was sharper.

So now im bobbing my head forward and backward like a dememted chicken trying to suss out what is causing this.I only need to move my head forward 1ft and everthing sounds so much better.So i thought i would pull the settee out 1ft.Still had the same effect,tried another 1ft,same effect again.

Now the back of the settee is about ear height,but in the middle where i sit,there is a raised profile which is the same height as the top of my head.
Is this the source of my phenomena?

[Slippershod]

... I only need to move my head forward 1ft and everthing sounds so much better.So i thought i would pull the settee out 1ft.Still had the same effect,tried another 1ft,same effect again.




well, well ... I've had exactly the same experience here - it's always puzzled me particularly - in the light of the 'sound will be bassier / middier the closer to the rear wall you are' received wisdom (at least I thought it was so...) :scratch:

[WAD62]

I have just noticed a somewhat strange phenomena whilst listening to some music.

When i listen to music,i usually sit right back on my settee,as i was today.

My phone was on the floor,so i lent forward to pick it up.As i did i noticed that kick drums sounded full and hit harder,bass was deeper and the overall focus was sharper.

So now im bobbing my head forward and backward like a dememted chicken trying to suss out what is causing this.I only need to move my head forward 1ft and everthing sounds so much better.So i thought i would pull the settee out 1ft.Still had the same effect,tried another 1ft,same effect again.

Now the back of the settee is about ear height,but in the middle where i sit,there is a raised profile which is the same height as the top of my head.
Is this the source of my phenomena?

I get a similar effect, my settee is in the centre of my room, if I slither down to the floor and rest my head against the settee, looking towards my speakers, I find the bass is particularly better.

My guess is that I need some acoustic damping at the back of my room, and when I'm sat normally on the settee (with no protection from my rear wall), I'm experiencing the cancellation effects of my rear wall, particularly with the bass...if that makes sense. ;)

[Dominic Harper]

Gawd! You wanna see me, bobbin front and back, side to side. My missus thinks I have some bloody disorder!:lolsign:

The reason behind all this is because different frequencies have differing wavelengths. These are bouncing off the walls, floor and ceiling and reaching you at different times. Moving around means you can pick up the differing wavelengths. I'm sure someone will elaborate further or correct me if I'm wrong.

[kininigin]

So acoustic treatment is the answer? It would be cheaper than a new settee i suppose.

I might have a play around with speaker/sitting position to see if that helps,although i don't relish this as the speakers and stands probaly weigh about 45kgs and are a right bastard to move.Also im limited to how much i can move them.I think i just talked myself out of it :lol:

[kininigin]

So im not the only one experiencing this.Is this down to just the rear wall?

My place listening room doesn't really have a rear wall to speak of as it leads into the kitchen and has a open space in the wall (im sure there's a proper name for this but cannot think what it is :scratch:)

I suppose the kitchen wall is the rear wall then.

Think i post a picture and see what you think.

[kininigin]

well, well ... I've had exactly the same experience here - it's always puzzled me particularly - in the light of the 'sound will be bassier / middier the closer to the rear wall you are' received wisdom (at least I thought it was so...) :scratch:

I'll have a play around with positioning,wisdom recieved :)


I get a similar effect, my settee is in the centre of my room, if I slither down to the floor and rest my head against the settee, looking towards my speakers, I find the bass is particularly better.

My guess is that I need some acoustic damping at the back of my room, and when I'm sat normally on the settee (with no protection from my rear wall), I'm experiencing the cancellation effects of my rear wall, particularly with the bass...if that makes sense. ;)

yeah makes sense,i think i've just opened a can of worms and am going to get obssesed with this now as it sounds significantly better when i lean forward.


Gawd! You wanna see me, bobbin front and back, side to side. My missus thinks I have some bloody disorder!:lolsign:

The reason behind all this is because different frequencies have differing wavelengths. These are bouncing off the walls, floor and ceiling and reaching you at different times. Moving around means you can pick up the differing wavelengths. I'm sure someone will elaborate further or correct me if I'm wrong.

That being the case I wonder how you get to the stage where you can sit still and have the optimum listening position.

Sounds like im missing something fundamental to how i have set up my hi fi :scratch:

[WAD62]

So im not the only one experiencing this.Is this down to just the rear wall?

My place listening room doesn't really have a rear wall to speak of as it leads into the kitchen and has a open space in the wall (im sure there's a proper name for this but cannot think what it is :scratch:)

I suppose the kitchen wall is the rear wall then.

Think i post a picture and see what you think.

It's probably a combination of many things, but I'm guessing that my rear wall is my main culprit...big flat and only one window with blinds, the other walls are taken up with my collections so aren't so flat/reflective.

I put a budget system in at my in-laws house in Spain, and was staggered by how good the bass was...I think it was down to their room, the back of which opens out into a mezzanine level above with a very high pointed roof (a bit hard to describe in words), so there was limited 'reflection' in the listening area.

Well that's my guess anyway, so I'm looking for a large sound absorbent piece of artwork for the back of my living room...either that or egg boxes ;)

[Dominic Harper]

Speaker position can be critical. Try toeing in or out, width speakers are apart, distance speakers are from side walls etc. You can get as anal as you like with this kind of mucking about!
BTW, Rockwool is as near a perfect sound absorber as you can get.

[WAD62]

Speaker position can be critical. Try toeing in or out, width speakers are apart, distance speakers are from side walls etc. You can get as anal as you like with this kind of mucking about!
BTW, Rockwool is as near a perfect sound absorber as you can get.

Yes I find toeing my speakers in a bit helps, and they're about 2 foot from the side walls...not sure the missus would be too keen on rockwool, hence my search for some artwork...a Banksy mural on rockwool perhaps, now where did I put his number...:)

[kininigin]

Well im off for a play,hope i don't end up weeping in the corner of the room at the end of it :lolsign:

[Alex_UK]

Need to see a photo Darren, but I reckon it could well be the sofa. Speakers as the transmitters sound better (generally) in free-space, and I reckon it is the same for the receivers - our ears. If I sit on the floor then bass is enhanced too, but I think it is artificial - generally, tweeters in line with ear level is the best bet, and toed in speakers does help too as has been said.

[kininigin]

Need to see a photo Darren, but I reckon it could well be the sofa. Speakers as the transmitters sound better (generally) in free-space, and I reckon it is the same for the receivers - our ears. If I sit on the floor then bass is enhanced too, but I think it is artificial - generally, tweeters in line with ear level is the best bet, and toed in speakers does help too as has been said.

Right here's some pics of my room and listening position.

This is the sofa in usual position
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/kininigin/PICT0007-1.jpg

This is my speaker position
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/kininigin/PICT0013.jpg

The rest are of around the listening position
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/kininigin/PICT0008.jpg

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/kininigin/PICT0009.jpg

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/kininigin/PICT0011.jpg

When im sat on the box i get the best sound,it's about 6" lower than sofa
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/kininigin/PICT0014.jpg

Having moved the speakers about and the sofa,im inclined to agree with you alex and it's the sofa,not sure i want to sit on a box everytime i want to listen to something though :lol:

[Thing Fish]

I placed 2 large sound panels behind my sofa and the results were staggering. They were professionally built for Sony but a piece of good luck meant I acquired them for nowt. Which was nice...:)

They are plain at present but one day I might get them printed with some art work.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pMmdA0hUvE4/TgsvUjVVMNI/AAAAAAAABUg/_QQ3cd4llJA/s288/IMG1.jpg

[kininigin]

I placed 2 large sound panels behind my sofa and the results were staggering. They were professionally built for Sony but a piece of good luck meant I acquired them for nowt. Which was nice...:)

They are plain at present but one day I might get them printed with some art work.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pMmdA0hUvE4/TgsvUjVVMNI/AAAAAAAABUg/_QQ3cd4llJA/s288/IMG1.jpg

They are crying out for some artwork on them,do they have to be behind you or can you place them to the sides as well?

My room layout means as it is,stairs on my left,no solid wall behind me,i would only be able to put something like that on the wall on my right.

[Dominic Harper]

Those panels can be made quite easily. Make a simple wood frame, fill with Rockwool, and staple some canvas etc over the top.
Very cheap trick to help room acoustics.

[Alex_UK]

Those panels can be made quite easily. Make a simple wood frame, fill with Rockwool, and staple some canvas etc over the top.
Very cheap trick to help room acoustics.

That's a really good idea - I put a 3 panel canvass up immediately behind/above my listening position to try and help absorb stray waves, so filling them with rockwool could be done easily and hopefully improve on just the canvass.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/Living%20Room/IMG_4472.jpg

[colinB]

I live in a studio with a shower at the other end of the room from the system
If im in the shower with some bassy stuff on i feel like im in one of those cars with the subwoofer in the back. Calms right down if i toe in the speakers.

Nice system Darren and good taste in whiskey. Shame about the coffee though.

[WAD62]

Those panels can be made quite easily. Make a simple wood frame, fill with Rockwool, and staple some canvas etc over the top.
Very cheap trick to help room acoustics.

Nice tip chap, definitely worth pursuing... :cool:

[kininigin]

Those panels can be made quite easily. Make a simple wood frame, fill with Rockwool, and staple some canvas etc over the top.
Very cheap trick to help room acoustics.

I'll look into making some.


I live in a studio with a shower at the other end of the room from the system
If im in the shower with some bassy stuff on i feel like im in one of those cars with the subwoofer in the back. Calms right down if i toe in the speakers.

Nice system Darren and good taste in whiskey. Shame about the coffee though.

cheers colin,im strictly a tea drinker,wouldn't know a decent coffee if it hit me in the face.

[alfie2902]

Hmmm... Good old room modes!

I have a problem very similar to the OP in that where SWMBO wants the sofa is in mode where there is a bass drop out, I guess from out of phase reflections or standing waves/room modes. I pull the sofa forward by about a foot & a half & the bass is back, so this is what I do for longer listening sessions!

Bass modes are harder to deal with as thay are a product of your rooms dimentions. Bass traps can help though.

here's a couple of pages that don't get to deep about room acoustics..

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-mtDYn6eBh8b/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_roomacoustics.html

http://www.marktaw.com/recording/Acoustics/AcousticsCrashCourse1-Mod.html

There's some calculators on last 2 of 5 pages on the 2nd link, that help you to work out room modes. Interesting stuff, but working out what to do after is a bit harder!

[Thing Fish]

Mine work best behind my listening position but I suggest if you have some try moving them around to get the best position.

I have a wall hanging on one of the side walls. This helps as well.

Its all a case of suck it and see (;)) A bit like equipment isolation I suspect.

Room acoustics is very necessary in my opinion. A few hundred pounds well spent can have the same effect as a very expensive new amp/speakers/cartridge or dare I say it all three.

[kininigin]

Hmmm... Good old room modes!

I have a problem very similar to the OP in that where SWMBO wants the sofa is in mode where there is a bass drop out, I guess from out of phase reflections or standing waves/room modes. I pull the sofa forward by about a foot & a half & the bass is back, so this is what I do for longer listening sessions!

Bass modes are harder to deal with as thay are a product of your rooms dimentions. Bass traps can help though.

here's a couple of pages that don't get to deep about room acoustics..

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-mtDYn6eBh8b/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_roomacoustics.html

http://www.marktaw.com/recording/Acoustics/AcousticsCrashCourse1-Mod.html

There's some calculators on last 2 of 5 pages on the 2nd link, that help you to work out room modes. Interesting stuff, but working out what to do after is a bit harder!

Cheers,i'll have a read up on it.I can freely move my sofa about,but i allways get the same situation when moving my head forward.


Mine work best behind my listening position but I suggest if you have some try moving them around to get the best position.

I have a wall hanging on one of the side walls. This helps as well.

Its all a case of suck it and see (;)) A bit like equipment isolation I suspect.

Room acoustics is very necessary in my opinion. A few hundred pounds well spent can have the same effect as a very expensive new amp/speakers/cartridge or dare I say it all three.

Don't have any yet,plan to make a couple and see how i get on(probaly take me awhile knowing me).

Im sure my room is not ideal and your probaly right that the room is a fundamentle part of the hi fi system so it needs to be addressed.

There's allways something to address :lol:

[Thing Fish]

Too true Darren. Too true...:)

[electric beach]

I have a wall hanging on one of the side walls.


WTF!!!??? :lolsign:

[Thing Fish]

WTF!!!??? :lolsign:

Having reread that it does sound strange...:lol:

[Alex_UK]

Reminds me of when as kids we used to ring random numbers on the 'phone, and ask for Mr Wall...

"Is Mr Wall there?"
"No"
"Well is Mrs Wall there?"
"No"
"What about Miss Wall then?"
"NO!" (getting irritated)
"Well have you got ANY Walls there?"
"NO!!!
"Well how do you keep the f******* roof up!"
[Clunk.... bzzzzzzzzzzz]

:)

[kininigin]

A word of warning to people who may decide to move heavy objects incorrectly,

DON'T,when i decided to have a play with the position of my speakers,i got lazy and left the speakers on the stand,forcing me to arch my back over and setting off my sciatica which took me about 8 months of pain everyday to get over.

And especially don't do it if your chosen career path is a snowboard instructor :doh: :(