Westminsters

[simonms]

Thought i would post the system as it stands, the tt is only placed where it is as i still need to get to the backs of the speakers for fine tuning.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8433/7655481228_5a354b4b53_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/7655481228/)
DSCN0825 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/7655481228/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7260/7655482530_e1e4b394fd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/7655482530/)
DSCN0826 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/7655482530/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8157/7655480000_b142cf4449_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/7655480000/)
DSCN0824 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/7655480000/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

Cheers Si.

Puffin, you are very welcome:)

[MartinT]

Looking great, Simon.

[daveskis]

Dave,
Are you still using that QED Silver Anniversary inside your speakers? If so, can I suggest you try experimenting with something else? It need not be expensive, but I would really recommend you try an alternative - you might be surprised.

Chris
Yes still using QED inside and to the amp. Open to any suggestion. I did read an interesting claim that wire should be thinner. What do you suggest as a start Chris

[daveskis]

Dave,
Are you still using that QED Silver Anniversary inside your speakers? If so, can I suggest you try experimenting with something else? It need not be expensive, but I would really recommend you try an alternative - you might be surprised.


Hi Dave,

Am using the original cross overs as it stands, am living with them fine but do have an active cross over on its way which should be interesting.
Very happy with these speakers as it stands, they now measure very well especially in the bass and low mids which i have been told is testament to the build quality. I used to use an LP12 but now have a Well Tempered which suits me, it is a deck that i would find hard to fault.
Am looking into a Audio Note DAC 3 for future digital source and also am starting another speaker build.
I have not experimented with internal wiring but as Chris mentions may well be worth a play, i might have a go at that to...are your drivers hard wired?

Very Best,

Simon.

Simon
Drivers are not hard wired although it probably is an obvious improvement if I experiment with a change to internal cable.
I'm intrigued Simon what enclosures next.

[vencel]

Hello,

First of all let me congratulate both of you on your wonderful and professional work.

I would like to ask if the 15" Monitor Golds could also be used for such a project or the cabinets and/or the crossovers should be modified?

Thanks!

[Marco]

Hi David,


Yes still using QED inside and to the amp. Open to any suggestion. I did read an interesting claim that wire should be thinner. What do you suggest as a start Chris

Hope you don't mind me butting in, but when I modified and upgraded the crossovers on my Monitor Golds I used Van den Hul CS-14 Hybrid internal speaker cable, to superb sonic effect. See here:


http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2562/tannoycrossovers.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/tannoycrossovers.jpg/)


http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5278/tannoycrossovers2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/tannoycrossovers2.jpg/)


It's specifically designed for the job, thin, therefore easy to work with, sounds superb (synergising beautifully with the sonic signature of the Tannoys), and is very cost effective. Basically, there's nothing not to like! :)

See here for more details: http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AF.aspx

Marco.

[FFL]

And now to build the Equipment Stand! 5668

5669
A review of the sound next.

I can say my vinyl collection has new life. The dynamics and drive from these Speakers is truly remarkable, you don't just hear the music, you feel the music entering the room.

Great work David ! :youtheman:

[simonms]

Hi David,



Hope you don't mind me butting in, but when I modified and upgraded the crossovers on my Monitor Golds I used Van den Hul CS-14 Hybrid internal speaker cable, to superb sonic effect. See here:


http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2562/tannoycrossovers.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/tannoycrossovers.jpg/)


http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5278/tannoycrossovers2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/tannoycrossovers2.jpg/)


It's specifically designed for the job, thin, therefore easy to work with, sounds superb (synergising beautifully with the sonic signature of the Tannoys), and is very cost effective. Basically, there's nothing not to like! :)

See here for more details: http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AF.aspx

Marco.

Thanks Marco,

Thats really handy to know, nearly got these cross overs sounding right for the cabinets now but will certainly try this wire. The original cross overs were fine really but there are improvements with a bit of patience and measuring and off course listening. Will post when finally complete.

Best Si.

[Marco]

No worries, Si. Glad to be of help. Hope it all works out well for you :)

Marco.

[daveskis]

Hi David,



Hope you don't mind me butting in, but when I modified and upgraded the crossovers on my Monitor Golds I used Van den Hul CS-14 Hybrid internal speaker cable, to superb sonic effect. See here:


http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2562/tannoycrossovers.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/tannoycrossovers.jpg/)


http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5278/tannoycrossovers2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/tannoycrossovers2.jpg/)


It's specifically designed for the job, thin, therefore easy to work with, sounds superb (synergising beautifully with the sonic signature of the Tannoys), and is very cost effective. Basically, there's nothing not to like! :)

See here for more details: http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AF.aspx

Marco.

Hi Marco
Thanks for the advice mate. I am just bout ready to go again with some modifications to the Xovers. Any ideas could be gold, I'm so amazed by the stream of excellent ideas offered up by you guys.
David

[daveskis]

Great work David ! :youtheman:

Hi Ferenc
If I am not mistaken it was from your plans-photos that inspired me to build the Westies.

[FFL]

Hi Ferenc
If I am not mistaken it was from your plans-photos that inspired me to build the Westies.

Hi David, yes that is my work ;)

[daveskis]

Hi David, yes that is my work ;)

I have sent you a private message Ferenc

[FFL]

I have sent you a private message Ferenc

There is no message from you in my Inbox - try to send it again

[daveskis]

Cheers Si.

Puffin, you are very welcome:)[/QUOTE]

Simon
I just checked your posts out on Wammers for your build. I had no idea you had so much trouble getting the sound up to speed mate.
Did you locate the probem in the end was it the altered xovers.

[daveskis]

Yes it doesn't seem long enough since the last one........however in the twelve months, boy oh boy Santa, have I been good.

I have added an Audio Research LS26 Pre and borrowed a very kind friends AR D130 Power Amp. A Hercules Power Supply added to the Linn. Made a little sweeter with the addition of a Linn Felt Mat.
A slab of Bluestone has been inserted between the Granite and the Trampoline Mk2 on the base of the LP12.
The Westminsters have had a bit of attention. The old four pin plugs have been briskly removed and rewired more sensibly. New Xovers built and removed to somewhere external, with boxes to enclose them probably built before next xmas.
Non active cavities have been filled with sand, the two outer panels on the left and right of the speaker have been braced with 25mm square ply in four places too increase stiffness for each of the outer panel and more carpet glued in behind the rear baffle board.

[daveskis]

Oh and the cones have been re-dyed with black and the rolled surrounds painted with a preservative lacquer. 7888

7889

[realysm42]

Gorgeous. Nuff said.

[simonms]

Cheers Si.

Puffin, you are very welcome:)

Simon
I just checked your posts out on Wammers for your build. I had no idea you had so much trouble getting the sound up to speed mate.
Did you locate the probem in the end was it the altered xovers.[/QUOTE]

Hi Dave,

Sorry for the late reply, have not checked in for a while. It came down to couriers damaging the units on two occasions so picked them up by hand and they are now fine thankfully.

Although i was happy with them i am building some more from BB birch to see how the materials used effects the sound, the front horn lips in to the drive unit a bit further a kin to the originals and i have spent a long time laminating the curved sections with a vacuum press and former which means they can be veneered with a vacuum press as they are not built in to the cabinet, they have to be machined on all 4 sides but with a few jigs and patience they fit perfectly.

Anyway Happy Xmas all,

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8071/8280978431_753fc0b3b3.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8280978431/)
DSCN0993 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8280978431/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8358/8280980335_8ebc58bf03.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8280980335/)
DSCN0991 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8280980335/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8208/8280981243_01cbb262a6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8280981243/)
DSCN0990 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8280981243/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8502/8282041348_99124a9989.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8282041348/)
DSCN0986 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8282041348/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

Had to build jigs for a few parts but this is the one to add 11 degrees onto my saws max. of 46 to get the necessary fit for the flat sides of the horn.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8337/8280986019_775601f553.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8280986019/)
DSCN0985 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8280986019/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

The pics show parts dry fitted.

Cheers Si.

[simonms]

Happy new year! Spent a lot of my Xmas break working on these which has been very nice indeed and have now finished the first horn section using my new method of construction.
I am really glad i went to the effort of building this way, they are rock solid and its very satisfying running your hand over the curve... they have taken substantially longer though.

I am considering the molding in these pictures for the surrounding finish of the horn area, any thoughts? Its either this or a more simple half round.

Anyhow here are some pics of the results, they are bare 26mm ply at the moment so no finish applied yet.

Dave, i hope you don't mind me posting on your thread, i can start my own if you like, nice to share though as we are on the same build(s).

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8076/8334212804_5abcc62cab.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8334212804/)
DSCN0997 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8334212804/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8216/8333146425_d8c5ac628d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333146425/)
DSCN1002 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333146425/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8213/8333147749_f6fb7a0b77.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333147749/)
DSCN1001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333147749/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8080/8333149105_2ccfef2d45.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333149105/)
DSCN1000 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333149105/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8084/8333150325_1806132b79.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333150325/)
DSCN0999 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333150325/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8357/8333151607_b7042679c4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333151607/)
DSCN0998 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8333151607/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

Cheers Si.

[skydog]

Dave hello,

Another Westminster addict is joining. Need your advise as to HPD filter you use in WM. In mine newly made I installed Golds 15" and immediately LF overwhelms all. Can you help with your experience how you altered the filter to avoid such unbalance?

Vlad

[daveskis]

Hi Simon
No problem lets just keep it going it may end up being a sticky. What with 18k in hits, there is no denying the interest.
However nice build love your work Simon. Bracing is not needed in my opinion around the horns at all. I have braced as you can see with my photos inside the driver box with triangular blocks. Damping(carpet or such) is required on the rear baffle top and bottom. And bracing most recently applied on the panels outermost to help reduce a very slight boom to the bass. As I indicated sand helps where you can fit it. Use bags in case you ever have to remove it. And Simon Happy New Year mate

[daveskis]

Dave hello,

Another Westminster addict is joining. Need your advise as to HPD filter you use in WM. In mine newly made I installed Golds 15" and immediately LF overwhelms all. Can you help with your experience how you altered the filter to avoid such unbalance?

Vlad

Hi Vlad and welcome to the very small club of WM Builders. I am surprised that 15" Golds(my drivers 15" HPDs)would be lacking in mids and highs, however we rebuilt the Xovers to restore some treble and midrange, with remarkable results.

[simonms]

Hi Simon
No problem lets just keep it going it may end up being a sticky. What with 18k in hits, there is no denying the interest.
However nice build love your work Simon. Bracing is not needed in my opinion around the horns at all. I have braced as you can see with my photos inside the driver box with triangular blocks. Damping(carpet or such) is required on the rear baffle top and bottom. And bracing most recently applied on the panels outermost to help reduce a very slight boom to the bass. As I indicated sand helps where you can fit it. Use bags in case you ever have to remove it. And Simon Happy New Year mate

Happy New Year to you to Dave, looking a bit warm over in your neck of the woods.
I had some damping in the areas that you identify but ended up with none at all, on the new pair that i am building i have used 3mm cork down the whole of inside of panel that sits inside of the sides-the one with the least possible bracing to see how that may influence things but its all removable.
Once i am settled on the best sounding cabinet materials i will build my final incarnation in some fine veneer. I am hoping the slightly tweaked baffle/horn area will improve things further.
I have had a lot of different amps in and out of the system and found that the KT88 worked very well especially on the lower frequencies and hope to try a New Audio Frontiers amp finally before i take the plunge and buy something. I am using a 22wpc pp design as it stands which is great for the time being.
Vlad, there is a lot of discussion at the moment on the Tannoy Yahoo Groups site regarding cross overs for HPD385's and MG's, have a look in. Also there are some great threads on here, one by Blackadder about his experiments with cross overs and Tannoyman's thread regarding upgrades for the Westminster is excellent.
Am machining up the trim in Maple today so will post when thats done but here are the Birch ply cabs as they stand.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8076/8353175525_37aee059fb.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353175525/)
DSCN1024 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353175525/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8084/8354235658_3508834a43.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354235658/)
DSCN1025 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354235658/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8492/8353180685_fcff5f070e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353180685/)
DSCN1020 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353180685/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8372/8353182113_02e9c1f2a2.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353182113/)
DSCN1019 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353182113/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8190/8354255634_5d61df8ece.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354255634/)
DSCN1010 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354255634/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8501/8353192387_41bc497935.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353192387/)
DSCN1011 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353192387/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8192/8354234276_3245a148f5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354234276/)
DSCN1026 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354234276/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

Cheers Si.

[MartinT]

I just can't believe the craftsmanship of some of our members. Outstanding work, chaps!

[The Black Adder]

Simon... They are looking absolutely smashing!!

I can bet the ply version to bring much more solidity in the sound. I can also imagine that the amount of internal wadding may need to be altered/revised slightly to accommodate the more rigid build.

[simonms]

Simon... They are looking absolutely smashing!!

I can bet the ply version to bring much more solidity in the sound. I can also imagine that the amount of internal wadding may need to be altered/revised slightly to accommodate the more rigid build.

Cheers Joe,

I ended up with no internal damping on the first pair after much experimentation and waiting for the drivers to settle in. They sound really nice the way i have them, the originals had no damping so i thought this may be the outcome. I suspect the same will be the case for these. Ferenc, the fellow who's build gave Dave the inspiration to build these used a lot of internal wadding but i found i preferred the sound on my build without...i have about £150 worth of various damping materials that are now redundant but will try them again on the new pair and do some measuring again.
I hope that the more solid curved sections and the ply will be a nicer sound through these but will have to wait and see...must chat re. cross overs at some point again, will be in touch in a few months:)

One reason for the curves being built outside and not into the cabinet is that veneer can be vacuum pressed onto them so a nice veneer needs to be chosen for my third and final pair.

Cheers Si.

[The Black Adder]

Cheers Joe,

I ended up with no internal damping on the first pair after much experimentation and waiting for the drivers to settle in. They sound really nice the way i have them, the originals had no damping so i thought this may be the outcome. I suspect the same will be the case for these. Ferenc, the fellow who's build gave Dave the inspiration to build these used a lot of internal wadding but i found i preferred the sound on my build without...i have about £150 worth of various damping materials that are now redundant but will try them again on the new pair and do some measuring again.
I hope that the more solid curved sections and the ply will be a nicer sound through these but will have to wait and see...must chat re. cross overs at some point again, will be in touch in a few months:)

One reason for the curves being built outside and not into the cabinet is that veneer can be vacuum pressed onto them so a nice veneer needs to be chosen for my third and final pair.

Cheers Si.

No probs matey... Just let me know.

No internal damping?... woow!... There must be plenty of air in there to compensate, that is swish! :)

[daveskis]

Cheers Joe,

I ended up with no internal damping on the first pair after much experimentation and waiting for the drivers to settle in. They sound really nice the way i have them, the originals had no damping so i thought this may be the outcome. I suspect the same will be the case for these. Ferenc, the fellow who's build gave Dave the inspiration to build these used a lot of internal wadding but i found i preferred the sound on my build without...i have about £150 worth of various damping materials that are now redundant but will try them again on the new pair and do some measuring again.
I hope that the more solid curved sections and the ply will be a nicer sound through these but will have to wait and see...must chat re. cross overs at some point again, will be in touch in a few months:)

One reason for the curves being built outside and not into the cabinet is that veneer can be vacuum pressed onto them so a nice veneer needs to be chosen for my third and final pair.

Cheers Si.
Hi Simon
Yes I can see where you are heading with this, I also removed all the dampening from all the horn paths. With the result that the music opened up considerably. Over some months also experimented with various equipment.
With no obvious path to follow(we don't have concise and proven plans for covers, drivers or cabinets)it is very much feel your way along. For this reason I think it is a great idea to share our knowledge as to individual results with this experiment.
I filled the space above the driver with sand bags and the enclosure on either side as well. Attach carpet squares to the rear baffle directly behind the driver enclosure and the enclosure below. The cabinet has much less resonance now particularly with the addition of stiffening the outer panels.
The xovers have without a doubt had a very significant change to the sound. I can't stress enough how important this is.
Of course the addition of an Audio Research PH5 Phono Pre made a huge difference to the result as well.8022

8023

[steviej233]

Guys, these speakers look AMAZING :stalks:. I saw some at a show and i am so jealous that i do not have a set of these in my life....

[daveskis]

Cheers Joe,

I ended up with no internal damping on the first pair after much experimentation and waiting for the drivers to settle in. They sound really nice the way i have them, the originals had no damping so i thought this may be the outcome. I suspect the same will be the case for these. Ferenc, the fellow who's build gave Dave the inspiration to build these used a lot of internal wadding but i found i preferred the sound on my build without...i have about £150 worth of various damping materials that are now redundant but will try them again on the new pair and do some measuring again.
I hope that the more solid curved sections and the ply will be a nicer sound through these but will have to wait and see...must chat re. cross overs at some point again, will be in touch in a few months:)

One reason for the curves being built outside and not into the cabinet is that veneer can be vacuum pressed onto them so a nice veneer needs to be chosen for my third and final pair.

Cheers Si.

Hi Simon
You must have these up and purring along by now or should that be growling.
I was sitting and listening to vinyl yesterday. The sound coming from the WM places the voices and instruments through the soundstage. The sound is dynamic and demands your attention. You may think you can read the latest Stereophile while playing a track or two, but before long you are engaged in the music again. The ability Simon, of the Westies to distract you back to the music is amazing.

[daveskis]

Finally, at last, the Crossovers are external and located inside a couple of Tasmanian Blackwood boxes, sanded and bees waxed to death.
I would not have believed the sound could gain so much, the depth and the soundstage is incredible. It was suggested by a couple of audio mates that the Alnico magnets could have a not too wonderful affect on the xovers. So moving the xovers from the previous location on top of the Westies to just about anywhere else will improve the music. Oh yeah?
If only I had known how significant this was to be. 10001

[Ali Tait]

Like the use of springs!

[daveskis]

Like the use of springs!

Yes energy is everywhere. Trying to isolate the box as much as possible. The speakers produce quite prodigious bass and these boxes are picking that up despite this isolation. Im wondering where does it stop. Should I dampen the interior of the Crossover Boxes as well. Probably, the improvement is already remarkable.

[Ali Tait]

It's common for manufacturers to damp their components.

[daveskis]

It's common for manufacturers to damp their components.
Yes I think this could produce results

[daveskis]

Yes I hear you asking but what are you going to do about the cabinet resonance on the outer wall of the Westies. Well not one to leave well enough alone. I thought I would fix lead lined Plywood or MDF.....haven't decided which yet.
I'm hoping this will further tighten and deepen the bass. But first I may have to stop that annoying rattle from one of the windows when playing Miss Riddle-Boz Scaggs. Or maybe I should turn it down a smidgen.

[daveskis]

Yes the lead lining was a mini disaster. It seems the cabinets need the resonance of the outer panels as does a Double Bass for deeper notes. The treble was more pronounced but that could have been because I wasn't hearing lower notes.
The mini part of the disaster was removing the lead sheeting OMG.

[awkwardbydesign]

Or maybe I should turn it down a smidgen.
No.

[daveskis]

No.

I didn't Richard

[daveskis]

Anybody but Simon built a pair of these. I see amongst 28,000 hits someone, surely someone took the plunge. I would be particularly interested if that someone changed the design in some way.

[Audio Advent]

Happy New Year to you to Dave, looking a bit warm over in your neck of the woods.
I had some damping in the areas that you identify but ended up with none at all, on the new pair that i am building i have used 3mm cork down the whole of inside of panel that sits inside of the sides-the one with the least possible bracing to see how that may influence things but its all removable.
Once i am settled on the best sounding cabinet materials i will build my final incarnation in some fine veneer. I am hoping the slightly tweaked baffle/horn area will improve things further.
I have had a lot of different amps in and out of the system and found that the KT88 worked very well especially on the lower frequencies and hope to try a New Audio Frontiers amp finally before i take the plunge and buy something. I am using a 22wpc pp design as it stands which is great for the time being.
Vlad, there is a lot of discussion at the moment on the Tannoy Yahoo Groups site regarding cross overs for HPD385's and MG's, have a look in. Also there are some great threads on here, one by Blackadder about his experiments with cross overs and Tannoyman's thread regarding upgrades for the Westminster is excellent.
Am machining up the trim in Maple today so will post when thats done but here are the Birch ply cabs as they stand.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8076/8353175525_37aee059fb.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353175525/)
DSCN1024 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353175525/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8084/8354235658_3508834a43.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354235658/)
DSCN1025 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354235658/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8492/8353180685_fcff5f070e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353180685/)
DSCN1020 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353180685/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8372/8353182113_02e9c1f2a2.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353182113/)
DSCN1019 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353182113/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8190/8354255634_5d61df8ece.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354255634/)
DSCN1010 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354255634/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8501/8353192387_41bc497935.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353192387/)
DSCN1011 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8353192387/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8192/8354234276_3245a148f5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354234276/)
DSCN1026 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48329457@N06/8354234276/) by simon ms (http://www.flickr.com/people/48329457@N06/), on Flickr

Cheers Si.

Just seen this thread..

Simon, did you know that there is someone in Brighton with a pair of Westminsters?

About 4 years ago I bought a turntable from a guy. He was actually selling on behalf of his mum, the turntable was his fathers who had passed away years before and he was a pretty wealthy audiophile. His wife (this guy's mum) had caught the bug, kept the system going and I think even had upgraded some bits.

From memory was Westminsters powered by Boulder amps. Other than that it was a custom 7-box pre-amp, Esoteric CD/DAC, some Sirius turntable with Mission Mechanic.. yes, serious stuff! And an old lady with readiing glasses on a chain. Was a block of turn of the century flats right on the sea front, perhaps more Hove. maybe near a leisure centre or something? You never know, perhaps there's a way to find her via an audiophile group and take a look at them by invitation.

Sadly, I was too polite to ask to listen to the system...

[daveskis]

Hi Sam
I am yet to hear a pair of Westminsters myself. Though not for want of trying. Eerily I have an Esoteric Cd/DVD player, but alas no reading glasses on a chain.

[daveskis]

Recently moved the Westies to a new home and dedicated Music Room. Early report is they are sounding wonderful now that I have a solid concrete slab under them.

[danilo]

I Lusted over Westies for Years.
Open Babble claimed them Better than Sex!
Wanted to cobble up my own pair 'for ever'.
Finally heard a pair a couple of years back.
Bit of a letdown TBH.
Yes they sounded 'nice'. But hardly near what the Folklore suggested Claimed.
OR better than what my Tannoys at home sounded like
A bit Boomy and of odd / not quite right balance.
Could have been setup or ancillary gear or even both.
Irrelevant though: less than expected sounds.
Notably.. one does hear seriptitious Emperors clothes statements on these. Praise ain't Universal.
Short story: I won't be building any more Tannoy Ersatz horns.
After having once wasted too much time and effort on IMO rather poor sounding Rect GRFs.

But Hey! we all have dreams :-)

[daveskis]

Hey Danilo
Yes I understand where you are coming from. I heard a pair of GRF at a mates place a year or so ago......disappointing is what I would say. And these built after waiting a year on special order by a famous Japanese Legendary Hi Fi House.
I have yet to hear a pair of factory built Westminsters. So I have the advantage of just auditioning mine. Boomy no, engaging, very, sharp and detailed yes. But I have the knowledge of my own build and the tweaking that makes any system your own.
The drivers I purchased way back in 1975/6 would I part with them for something more modern or new. Nuh!
Build your own the journey is half the fun.

[danilo]

Thank you..for that.
In truth.. I've yet to hear 'Genuine' Westies.
Few if any got shipped/bought out to the wet coast of north america
Always wondered what the genuine article sounded like.
DIY can be wildly variable ... certainly so in my hands.

[daveskis]

What surprises me constantly. The source, ie; vinyl, CD or streaming makes a great deal of difference. I recently played an audiophile vinyl Anne Bisson, Winter In Montreal(outstanding detail) Where the music takes you to another level.

Dave

[IslandPink]

I think there are one or two asking for listening impressions on the later models. I can offer that I heard the Westminster Royal HE's ( or maybe the SE's ? ) somewhere between 2003 and 2005 at the Manchester show where Noel Keywood was demo-ing a new pair, with a good analogue front-end with WAD phono and the WD KT88 PP amp. I still think they are the best commercial speakers I've heard. Noel was apologising for the bass not being quite 'there' as they were barely run-in, but they did sound so good in other ways that it didn't seems to be a problem ( although I suppose they were a touch bass-light ).
The quality of tone on vocals and instruments was very classy, this combined with a precision on dynamics and a feeling of effortless presentation that I now know is due to the horn loading ( from my own experiments ) . I would definitely recommend them to anyone with that kind of money to spend, which I can say is rare even in the world of other speakers in the £25k class.
There didn't appear to be any rough edges on female vocals, in the amount of time I spend listening there.

[daveskis]

Hi Mark well as I sit here I am still yet to hear any incantations or replica's of Westies. But as always with the speaker being the end of the hi fi chain, you get out what you put in. And the subtlety of for instance piano notes......which are difficult for a speaker to reproduce accurately, are sensational. I wouldn't admit to mine being bass-light. Anything played back like Yello will have the walls vibrating on the other side in the next room.
One of the members of my Audio Club here in Melbourne has offered up an audition of some. I must remind him of that again.
Cheers mate
Dave

[daveskis]

22667I have agonised over the Serbian/Croation plans posted on DIY Audio and link posted on AoS. While I thank the guy for the plans, muddled as they are. If not for him I wouldn't have started.

So I have discovered that the Horn section behind the Driver in his plans is WRONG. The photo indicates how it should be built. Simon if you are still around. Apply this modification. Then be amazed.

[The Black Adder]

Hi Dave. Don't you get the crossovers vibrating on the back being behind the driver?

I've often thought about trying it on my cabinets (Lockwood Majors) as the cabling could be cut down dramatically.

Also, what type of internal wiring are you using?

Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk

[daveskis]

Hey Josie
Very nice speakers I'm told. I have no issue with vibrations on the Xover boxes. But my driver is dampened by sand all around the internal box, very thick rear baffle around 40mm. Also these speakers are braced with wooden dowels premium glue and screws everywhere. You can feel slight vibration only. The internal wiring is QED Silver.
Dave

[daveskis]

Hi Dave. Don't you get the crossovers vibrating on the back being behind the driver?

I've often thought about trying it on my cabinets (Lockwood Majors) as the cabling could be cut down dramatically.

Also, what type of internal wiring are you using?

Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk

Hey Josie Just realised you thought the photo was the back of my Westies. No it is not. This a factory built Westminster Royal SE or HE. My reason for adding same is to stress my point that the the rear of the horn starts here. I will add some photos of mine to indicate change. The results are amazing.

[daveskis]

Hi All I do not regularly check in to follow my build. That is the Westminster Royals I built way back in 2011. But I find it comforting to know quite a few have been inspired to build these amazing speaker cabinets (hello Simon)since what I think were the first posted in English at least, on the web. I should explain again. My plans were drawn from a Croatian/Serbian post on one of their DIY Forums. In Croatian, no less. I used Google Translation to English. Yes I was pretty keen to build them.
It goes a little deeper than that. The guy that ultimately posted the plans didn’t build them. A friend did so for him.

So where are we today. As I most recently posted. There was a mistake in the Croatian Plans. At the back of the driver no less. This I discovered from photos posted on Jeff Days page re Westminster’s. Mine are now changed to reflect this. My Xovers are external and hang from springs mounted on the rear of the cabinets. Two days ago a good friend of mine, thanks Dave, fitted Mundorf EVO Oil Caps on the HF side only. My friend Simon in the Uk was not all that impressed at completion of his Westies build, with the resultant sound. Wrong Simon. Nirvana is something you have to work at. I’m getting close with the Mundorfs.

[AJSki2fly]

Absolutely wonderfully done, you should be really proud, I bet you can't wait to hear them, really interested to know what the end result is. I'd love a pair but think I would fail with negotiation with SWMBO.:)

[daveskis]

Adrian go for it. Such fun to build and not overly difficult with a few wood working skills. Interpreting the plans as scant as they are is the most difficult part.
The result is something you will never Part with. These drivers HPD385’s I have had since 1973 in various speaker designs that I built. I feel they have arrived as it were now they are in the Westies.

[daveskis]

Upgrades
So having lived with these massive boxes now for almost ten years. OMG is it that long since I constructed in my garage in another place. Weirdly now I have a Workshop with a Saw Bench twice as many tools, the garage is twice the size of the previous. A good friend suggested I up grade the components of the Xovers. There is a lot of activity on the Tannoy Web Sites re Xovers improves.
So two stages. First was High Range. Changing all the caps to Mundorf EVO Oil. This change is the most remarkable I have witnessed at any time from the build overall. Perhaps I will document in a later post.
However this was not the end of it and yes you guessed Low Range is now blessed with the same Capacitors. I listen every day for one to two hours to a whole new collection of music. And no I haven’t splurged on whole lot of new vinyl or CDs, I’m just hearing stuff on them I haven’t heard before. How good is this hobby.

[daveskis]

Ho ha I wonder what people will make of the above title. I was compelled to comment after telling a friend just now here in the high alps of North Western Italy about my Tannoy construction and the Westminster Royals that have pride of place in my Music/Media Room. A dedicated space for an audiophile or to contemplate the world each morning at 5am(I have two cats) The build all those years ago has quite a number of visits, over 91,000 OMG.
Tannoy people are like cricket fans, rusted on. I think I should make more regular comments here; a new years resolution if you will.
Cheers Daveskis
PS Yes I am skiing, wining and dining.

[hornucopia]

Wishing I still had my Klipschorns now!!(or the ones currently on eBay?)

[daveskis]

Wishing I still had my Klipschorns now!!(or the ones currently on eBay?)

Hi Chris
The Kipschorns were my original motivation way back. I heard a bass drum test record at a Hi Fi Show in Melbourne, Australia and I was visibly moved. The huge bass sine wave passed straight through my body. That was the day I decided to chase a sound, a speaker, anything to get that in my living room. If you have followed what I have written here it has taken several different cabinets to get to the Westies and now we are at 51 years. In other words those HPD 385's 15" are 51 years old. Amazing now I think about it. They cost me a mozza when I brought them. Doesn't seem anything but a bargain now though.
Dave

[hornucopia]

I’ve now got DIPTYQUE DP77s, plus ZU Method sub (twin 15 inchs!) so a rather different way. Driven by domestic requirements,having lost my Audio room.
Reminds me to sell my infamous (?) hanging chair that sat -hung -at the sweet spot.
The Klipschorns these days would have to have a warehouse space attached!
Current split-level house not suitable-no useable corners.31460