SUT with an AT33PTG ?

[Peter Stockwell]

I'm casting around for my last phono stage. Currently I'm using a Clearaudio Nano with a Bob's Devices Cinemag SUT, on loan, at present, from Martin T (Thanks Martin)

I'm in denial, I suppose. It sounds great, but seems complicated because I'm adding more wires.

I'm thinking of spending, say, £500 to £700 on a phonostage, preferably MC only. But, am I on the right track ?

I'm seeing hints, here and there, that the best compromise is a superlative MM stage, with an SUT in front.

So what choices do I have if I were to keep the SUT, and just go with a better MM stage ?

[Dominic Harper]

Hi Peter, this is my opinion on your dilema.
If it were me, assuming that the SUT is optimised for your cartridge, I would just get the best mm stage you can. MC stages can be good, but bear in mind they have a lot more electronics to amplify the signal, whereas a SUT has none. Far better to have an extra set of cables that a circuit.
I' m expecting some opposition to this, but a good SUT is far better than mc stage, and I mean a good one.
The only downside is the SUT will only suit a small number of cartrides, whereas a MC stage will be a bit more flexible if you change carts as often as I do.
Dom

[Peter Stockwell]

I' m expecting some opposition to this, but a good SUT is far better than mc stage, and I mean a good one.
The only downside is the SUT will only suit a small number of cartridges, whereas a MC stage will be a bit more flexible if you change carts as often as I do.
Dom

Dom,

I intend to keep the AT33PTG or a derivative for a long time.

So no real worries there.

[scoobs]

I have recently bought a cec ph53 which uses the same design as the aqvox 2ci. I bought it having discovered that the mc input via xlr invokes some load rejecting jiggery pokery that enables any LOMC to be used without the need for adjustment, reading deeper reveals that this design loves low impedance coils like my 14ohm 103r and Ortofon SPU which I aspire to one day. I understand that the PTG is pretty low at 10ohm??

In listening I'm most impressed with it, although I had to rewire the external cable on my tonearm to xlr, which is pretty simple. the unit can then output either single ended or balanced to your amp. The unit also has the ability to adjust for mc with dip switches when using single ended input, it also supports mm.

Compared to my old valve mm / A23 sut rig, this phono has negligable background noise and more impactful dynamics and bass slam and no less analogue magic.

[Marco]

Hi Peter, this is my opinion on your dilema.
If it were me, assuming that the SUT is optimised for your cartridge, I would just get the best mm stage you can. MC stages can be good, but bear in mind they have a lot more electronics to amplify the signal, whereas a SUT has none. Far better to have an extra set of cables that a circuit.I' m expecting some opposition to this, but a good SUT is far better than mc stage, and I mean a good one.
The only downside is the SUT will only suit a small number of cartrides, whereas a MC stage will be a bit more flexible if you change carts as often as I do.


That's also what my current experience tells me, Dominic. The bit in bold is interesting, and something I hadn't considered before....

Peter, I'll add more meaningful comment après mon repas de ce jour! :)

Marco.

[Peter Stockwell]

MC stages can be good, but bear in mind they have a lot more electronics to amplify the signal, whereas a SUT has none. Far better to have an extra set of cables that a circuit.

So a straight, hmmm, coiled, wire with gain is better than an amplifier ;) (yeah, I know they are transformers, so two coiled wires)

btw, the SUT is no longer on loan, it's staying!

[Gerry]

I'm casting around for my last phono stage. Currently I'm using a Clearaudio Nano with a Bob's Devices Cinemag SUT, on loan, at present, from Martin T (Thanks Martin)

I'm in denial, I suppose. It sounds great, but seems complicated because I'm adding more wires.

I'm thinking of spending, say, £500 to £700 on a phonostage, preferably MC only. But, am I on the right track ?

I'm seeing hints, here and there, that the best compromise is a superlative MM stage, with an SUT in front.

So what choices do I have if I were to keep the SUT, and just go with a better MM stage ?

Speak to NickG and ask if you can try his phono stage. It is valve based, doesn't use SUTs (Oamps instead) but is really quite something with the ATs.

Highly recommended, close to your budget. I have CineMags and I'm considering the change.

[Peter Stockwell]

Speak to NickG and ask if you can try his phono stage. It is valve based, doesn't use SUTs (Oamps instead) but is really quite something with the ATs.

Highly recommended, close to your budget. I have CineMags and I'm considering the change.

It's a beauty I've seen some photos, but difficult to try, since I'm in France.

[DSJR]

I'm sure that there are good transistors now which have low noise and high gain which can be carefully used in a simple but effective circuit for MC cartridges. The lack of ringing in such circuits can remove a certain "halo" which vinyl reproduction can add to the proceedings, imo. Having said that, really good transformers seem like hen's teeth and cost the earth for a variety of reasons.

I still haven't given up on a pair of Sowters as I have the box and sockets all ready for them, together with an optional damping network across the secondaries if necessary, but the lure of an SAS stylus for one of the Shures beckons too, as I really like their honesty - blunt and ruthless in original trim sometimes, but apparently much refined with the SAS stylus option from Jico.

What worries me as always is that a simple electronic circuit doesn't need a huge power supply, does it(?), merely a quiet one I think, yet these phono stages, fitted with good but standard components a lot of the time, cost more than many good integrated amplifiers. Oh, of course, I forgot the "intellectual property" involved in these things, which suddenly mean that online-only products can sell for "full retail price - and then some," yet with no dealer taking his fair share (I repeat that small independant dealers DON'T make huge margins usually, only the chains who often have to discount much of this away in "deals.."

[Reid Malenfant]

I'm sure that there are good transistors now which have low noise and high gain which can be carefully used in a simple but effective circuit for MC cartridges.
2SB737 springs to mind ;)

[MartinT]

How are you getting on with the SUT, Peter? Have you tried any more phono stages?

[Peter Stockwell]

Hi Martin,

I bought a new phonostage, one that's completely off the radar! I bought the "Audiophile" virtual battery version :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Quality-Phono-Stage-amp-preamp-MM-MC-BRAND-NEW-/130540077942?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item1e64cb8376

This and the SUT are really, really good together. Tuesday night I went to see John Mellencamp live. Great show, been wanting to see him live for 20 years or more. One thing about the show was how they'd EQ'd for lots of impact with the bass and drums, too much I thought.

Anyway, for the craigh, I pulled out "Whatever we wanted" on vinyl and gave it a whirl last night. My jaw perceivable moved in the direction of the floor ;) !

My little system gave me a taste of what it was like to be at the show, obviously it wasn't as loud, nor as deep in the bass, but it really got the essence of what the tonal signature was in the Olympia Hall in Paris tuesday night!

The phonostage is a real bargain at about £150!

[MartinT]

Hi Pete

I'd heard that the Angle Audio phono stage was rather good. Very pleased that you've experienced the MC + SUT sound. Once you've achieved it, you don't want to let it go :)

[chris@panteg]

Hi Peter

I've been looking at that same Angle phono stage as an upgrade in my 2nd system.
Pleased its worked out for you.:)

[Peter Stockwell]

I hadn't played vinyl for some time, but the SUT and the New phonostage are very compelling arguments :) As it stands, whether it's CD, Streaming or LP, I usually want to finish the whole album before moving on to another recording.

The last bit being the BetterAudioCompany (Colin Boardman) Van damme interconnects.

[Tarzan]

Pete, can you give any more thoughts on the Angle Audio phono stage- this looks great VFM!:)

[Peter Stockwell]

I can't say a lot more because it's only been "on" a couple of days, and Chris Gittins (I think that's how it's spelt) the designer/maker suggests that at least 100hrs of on time is required to get the best from it.

All I can say is that I was looking at as much as £700 for other choices, and quite by accident I stumbled across this phonostage. I think someone else who posts here has the basic version (there was a link to the "wam") in the ebay ad, and I recognised the "call sign".

All I can say, as I mentioned in the post about John Mellencamp, is that in the context of the Teccie with an SME IV (I wouldn't buy one of those at today's prices!) and the AT33PTG I don't think it's a weak link. OTOH i'm not comparing to a £2k phonostage either. I also added the linear power supply option, not sure, if the phonostage is essentially running off the battery, how much advantage to that there is.

I made the calculation if that I'm buying direct, that Chris probably makes these up in his high tech workshop (Kitchen, spare bedroom ...), that in parts and workmanship it has to be the equivalent of something at 3 times the price retail, I suspect at the price he sells he's able to the sell them without VAT (I believe there's threshold of £60k as a small business where no VAT registery is required - Richard would know about that)

He also has a no quible guarantee, didn't think I could loose.

[Canetoad]

I wonder how it compares with a CA 640P? :scratch:

Sounds like it might be a useful update.

[keiths]

I'm thinking about one to replace my CA 540p. Don't know which one yet - I suspect my lowly Technics SL1500/Nagaoka MP11 doesn't justify the top 'audiophile' version.

[Peter Stockwell]

I suspect my lowly Technics SL1500/Nagaoka MP11 doesn't justify the top 'audiophile' version.

I intend going back to MM when I can be arsed to take the time to get ;it all set up, and I have a brace of MP11 borons as candidates.

You don't have much to lose if you try the audiophile version, no quiblle guarantee, etc

[Canetoad]

I'm thinking about one to replace my CA 540p. Don't know which one yet - I suspect my lowly Technics SL1500/Nagaoka MP11 doesn't justify the top 'audiophile' version.

Mines a 1210 with an MP150 so not much difference. Might be worth a punt. :)

[keiths]

I suspect you're right. I could have bought the cheap one right away, but I think I'll wait 'til next month and get the top one.

[Peter Stockwell]

I suspect you're right. I could have bought the cheap one right away, but I think I'll wait 'til next month and get the top one.

I bought the "top" one with the Virtual Battery ("VB"). The VB has some quirks, in that if you leave it on, even when connected to the mains, the battery will flatten after 6 hours or so. Most of the time I'll listen to LPs for a couple of hours at a time, maximum, so it's not really a problem just flick the On/off switch to "charge" and it'll be fine for the next session.

(I might be missing something, there's a 3 position switch, and I may have been using it battery only, instead of battery and mains. I'll have to check again in the manual)

[keiths]

Thanks for that info Peter. Have you noticed much improvement when it's running off battery as opposed to mains?