The 'AudioFlat' Forum

[flatpopely]

Hello everyone.

We have started a forum to talk about AudioFlat products.

http://www.audioflat.co.uk/phpBB3/index.php

The LP12 will feature highly so if you love or hate it you might want to pop in and have a look.

Thanks very much to Marco for allowing me to post this thread.

Andrew.

[Alex_UK]

Good luck with it Andrew. Not being an owner or a hater I probably will abstain, but there should be plenty of interest. :)

[flatpopely]

Thanks Alex.

Its a very tight forum, not many topics and I have done it like that as I would like it to be a forum about our products. If it develops then all well and good.

Andrew.

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Andrew, while i understand you are now manufacturing this beautiful looking (& i'm sure performing) bit of kit to upgrade the LP12 i & i'm sure a good few others probably have no idea what else you might be up to upgrade wise? :scratch:

If we don't know we might find no reason to take a peek so to speak ;)

Good luck with it anyway chap, & with the previously mentioned bit of kit, the Rubycon :)

[flatpopely]

We have a stand and isolation stuff in mind, but TBH it going to be a bit of a RubiKon-LP12 love fest to being with. Its taken us 2 years to get to this point so new products need to come along when we have things on an even keel :lol:

[Reid Malenfant]

Cheers Andrew, i might pop in then ;) I can understand how long it took to develop the Rubycon, it's a magnificent bit of engineering ;)

[Neil McCauley]

Surely this has been covered on:


"PFM"
"Walking-wallet" and
The "Owner as Zombie" threads?


Can there being anything left to say that is concurrently both credible AND interesting on this bygone era?

From my perspective, and I speak only for me, everything the Linn ethos delivers, as distinct from claiming to deliver, is both outdated and increasingly irrelevant. And yes, I still play vinyl. But I use hype-free products such as Pink Triangle and Denon direct-drives.

On the other hand in the current climate, such effort deserves congratulations. I still believe though that an analogy might be a enthusiast site for Slide Rule owners or, advocates of surgery prior to the invention of Anesthetics – or anything else where tradition is both sacrosanct and therefore immune to rational observation. How about a forum to advocate gas-illumination on airport runways, or human-powered galleys to replace trans-Atlantic liners? Or the Icarus approach to international flight? Or Cannon & Ball / Little & Large as the epitome of sophisticated TV comedy?

[flatpopely]

Surely this has been covered on:


"PFM"
"Walking-wallet" and
The "Owner as Zombie" threads?


From my perspective, and I speak only for me, everything the Linn ethos delivers, as distinct from claiming to deliver, is both outdated and increasingly irrelevant. And yes, I still play vinyl. But I use hype-free products such as Pink Triangle and Denon direct-drives.

On the other hand in the current climate, such effort deserves congratulations. I still believe though that an analogy might be a enthusiast site for Slide Rule owners or, advocates of surgery prior to the invention of Anesthetics – or anything else where tradition is both sacrosanct and therefore immune to rational observation. How about a forum to advocate gas-illumination on airport runways, or human-powered galleys to replace trans-Atlantic liners? Or the Icarus approach to international flight? Or Cannon & Ball / Little & Large as the epitome of sophisticated TV comedy?

Howard.

Pop into one of our dealers and listen to a RubiKon equiped LP12. It's a very modern beast, not what you might expect.

Andrew.

[Neil McCauley]

Howard.

Pop into one of our dealers and listen to a RubiKon equiped LP12. It's a very modern beast, not what you might expect.

Andrew.

Andrew – Thank you. Yes, I accept the possibility that indeed this might be so. But I do recall Ivor telling me personally in 1982 accompanied by his Irish thug-like enforcer (Charles or Charlie I seem to recall) that, and I quote precisely "The Sondek can NEVER be improved"

If he was correct then then what gives today?

If he was wrong then, then why trust anything from them today?

Linn have I suspect improved on what is still arguably outdated form of vinyl reproduction technology. Both Garrard from aeons back, and Michell Eng. today offer both musically credible reproduction AND value. And they are far from alone. Arguably everything that Linn stood for and stands for is increasingly of minority interest to audiophile and music lovers who have the capacity to think for themselves

Sincerely

Howard

[flatpopely]

Ok Howard.

I guess the LP12 aint for you.

Andrew.


Thank you. Yes, I accept the possibility that indeed this might be so. But I do recall Ivor telling me personally in 1982 accompanied by his Irish thug-like enforcer (Charles or Charlie I seem to recall) that, and I quote precisely "The Sondek can NEVER be improved"

If he was correct then then what gives today?

If he was wrong then, then why bother with anything from them today?

[Neil McCauley]

Ok Howard.

I guess the LP12 aint for you.

Andrew.

Andrew, no – not quite.

If my scepticism and utter loathing for everything that Linn (the Company) has represented in the past in my direct experience as their #4 retailer in the 1980s were not so intense then I might be able to consider their product in an open-minded manner. Regretfully I have to admit though that I just don’t have that capability.

But I have to say that the ittock was a terrific bit of kit.

Incidentally, re the launch, every dealer on the Linn dealer "A" list had to:


Order 12 arms as the opening order – or would have been deemed to have resigned and ..
Had no opportunity to examine or test prior to paying upfront for the 12. You see - A/B testing as advocated in public by these bullies did not extend in private to Linn's direct customers - the resellers!


As Mr Orwell said: ""All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

Quite so - as I told Ivor at the time. He seemed a bit miffed!

Again, sincerely

Howard

[YNWaN]

Howard, I understand where you are coming from but we are not Linn (I'm not sure that even Linn are the company your posts refer to any more). Both Andrew and I do share many of the ideals that the Linn/Naim axis revolved on, but as you said, time has moved on and the LP12 Ivor said could not be improved, has changed significantly (and for the better in my opinion).

[Marco]

Hi Howard,

Do please remember that this discussion is taking place in the trade room, where our trade members (you included) are allowed to champion their products without undue scrutiny or criticism..........

That sort of stuff is reserved for the main forum. I trust you appreciate where I'm coming from, old chap? ;)

Marco.

[Neil McCauley]

Hi Howard,

Do please remember that this discussion is taking place in the trade room, where our trade members (you included) are allowed to champion their products without undue scrutiny or criticism..........

That sort of stuff is reserved for the main forum. I trust you appreciate where I'm coming from, old chap? ;)

Marco.

Ah yes. Thank you. I hadn't considered this. Good point. Will do.

Sincerely

Howard

[Barry]

Surely this has been covered on:


"PFM"
"Walking-wallet" and
The "Owner as Zombie" threads?


Can there being anything left to say that is concurrently both credible AND interesting on this bygone era?

From my perspective, and I speak only for me, everything the Linn ethos delivers, as distinct from claiming to deliver, is both outdated and increasingly irrelevant. And yes, I still play vinyl. But I use hype-free products such as Pink Triangle and Denon direct-drives.

On the other hand in the current climate, such effort deserves congratulations. I still believe though that an analogy might be a enthusiast site for Slide Rule owners or, advocates of surgery prior to the invention of Anesthetics – or anything else where tradition is both sacrosanct and therefore immune to rational observation. How about a forum to advocate gas-illumination on airport runways, or human-powered galleys to replace trans-Atlantic liners? Or the Icarus approach to international flight? Or Cannon & Ball / Little & Large as the epitome of sophisticated TV comedy?

Forsooth - Methinks the Gentleman doth protest too much!

Regards

[flatpopely]

Andrew, no – not quite.

If my scepticism and utter loathing for everything that Linn (the Company) has represented in the past in my direct experience as their #4 retailer in the 1980s were not so intense then I might be able to consider their product in an open-minded manner. Regretfully I have to admit though that I just don’t have that capability.

But I have to say that the ittock was a terrific bit of kit.

Incidentally, re the launch, every dealer on the Linn dealer "A" list had to:


Order 12 arms as the opening order – or would have been deemed to have resigned and ..
Had no opportunity to examine or test prior to paying upfront for the 12. You see - A/B testing as advocated in public by these bullies did not extend in private to Linn's direct customers - the resellers!


As Mr Orwell said: ""All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

Quite so - as I told Ivor at the time. He seemed a bit miffed!

Again, sincerely

Howard


Howard.

Our dealer terms are very friendly. We are a new company and I know what dealers need and don't need.

Andrew.

[Marco]

But I have to say that the ittock was a terrific bit of kit.


Damn right... Hence my post here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11887

Now that, in terms of sound-per-pound value, is a bloody bargain! :)

The Ittok was designed in the days when Linn produced top-notch kit at reasonably realistic prices, and that looks like a nice clean example.

Marco.