Flexible surround sound?

[dave2010]

Does anyone have systems which allow flexible playback of multi-channel recordings? I have CDs, SACDs and DVDs, not to mention other media formats. Some of the SACDs and DVDs are multi-channel. Some are 3 channel with a fill in centre (e.g. RCA or Mercury recordings from almost 50 years back), some are 4 channel, with a couple of rear channels, and there are maybe even some 5 channel or more.

I more or less gave up worrying about all this a couple of years ago, because of the upheaval it would cause moving everything around just to play a 3 channel recording, (with further upheaval if then a 4 or 5 channel recording is played) but I do wonder if others have found ways of making it work.

I sometimes run "record" evenings for a music society, and it'd be good to be able to show off some of the recordings in multi-channel formats, but unless the recordings are all in the same format that might be difficult.

Apart from the space and speaker placement issues, switching inputs and outputs also seems to present problems. Personally I'm not desperate to go down the AV route, as I don't think a lot of AV kit is good enough, or if it is, then it's probably going to be very expensive. However some AV kit does have possibly useful features, such as control over delays etc.

I'm not particularly interested in cinema style presentation, but more concert hall, live venue style.

Having said that, I think some multi-channel recordings are fake (remixed versions of recordings which just happen to have been multi-miked), but some may be genuine, made with mikes placed in appropriate spatial locations, or an Ambisonics style microphone. Such recordings could be worth presenting properly.

Perhaps solving this problem isn't really sensible for a domestic environment, but I wonder if others have tried.

[Reid Malenfant]

I guess the easiest way around it all is to use 4 speakers, front left & right & rear left & right. This way you cover just about any eventuality.

What you do is set up the player & in the menu you tell it you only have the 4 speakers (set them to large!). If you get a 3 channel mix with centre it'll downmix the centre into the left & right front speakers.

If you happen to be playing some 5.1 stuff the sub (0.1 channel) will be likewise be downmixed into the left & right front speakers along with any centre channel stuff.

In the case of 7.1 the very same will occur except that the rear surrounds output will be mixed into the surround output.

It's simply a case of setting the equipment up correctly & it'll take care of the rest :)

[dave2010]

I guess the easiest way around it all is to use 4 speakers, front left & right & rear left & right. This way you cover just about any eventuality.

What you do is set up the player & in the menu you tell it you only have the 4 speakers (set them to large!). If you get a 3 channel mix with centre it'll downmix the centre into the left & right front speakers.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Some of the 3 channel recordings may have been made using spaced microphones, so the optimum really is to use 3 front speakers. Experiments done between 1930 and 1960 suggest that 4 channels was pretty good (at the front), 3 less good, and stereo (what we have now) just about bearable!

Mixing down to 2 channels is something I'd like to avoid, if I'm going to attempt that at all. I think most SACDs have a 2 channel mix down anyway if that's wanted.

[Reid Malenfant]

Well it is up to you at the end of the day after all. What i was getting at was the simplest setup that would do any & every surround type but mixed down to just 4 speakers.

I thought judging by the question that that is what you were asking about? :scratch:

Can't say i didn't try :)

[Macca]

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Some of the 3 channel recordings may have been made using spaced microphones, so the optimum really is to use 3 front speakers. Experiments done between 1930 and 1960 suggest that 4 channels was pretty good (at the front), 3 less good, and stereo (what we have now) just about bearable!

Mixing down to 2 channels is something I'd like to avoid, if I'm going to attempt that at all. I think most SACDs have a 2 channel mix down anyway if that's wanted.

The SACD multi-channel recording will be optimised for playback on a standard multi-channel system so the pick up from the centre mic will be replayed over the centre speaker. If you replace the usual a/v horizontal MTM speaker with one identical or very similar to your two front speakers it should do exactly what it says on the tin.

If you don't have a muti-channel amp you will need a mono preamp and power amp for the centre, stereo pre/power for the front L and R and then connect up from your SACD player using the 5 channel analogue outs instead. You could use one channel of a stereo amp for drive the centre instead as it is a mono signal.

[dave2010]

Martin

Thanks - yes I've thought of that (using a spare or mono amp for the centre channel) but not tried it yet. Problem is the set up time. Maybe I'll try over the summer, as may eventually have more time.

I do also have a Blu Ray surround sound system, but although this gives reasonable effects on DVDs and Blu Rays, it doesn't deliver high quality. It does work with DVD-As played back on an SACD player with DVD-A capability connected via an optical link, but unfortunately not with SACDs. I think it doesn't even deliver very good quality if I substitute better speakers which I have tucked away.

One other issue is that the surround sound system is set up for the TV. In our room we'd really want this rotated by 90 degrees for audio. As I said, a lot of the problems are due to the hassle of moving speakers around, and having to reconnect different amps and other equipment. Not something I'd want to do when demonstrating except perhaps to very tolerant and dedicated enthusiasts. Others indoors might object, too!

[Beechwoods]

I have a second stereo amp and speakers connected to the rear channels on my SACD player for 4 channel quad playback. The second amp sits under my sofa and doesn't get in the way. It's a solution that works nicely for me.