View Full Version : Well ..... I dunno. Is THIS really the ultimate vintage DD turntable?
Neil McCauley
14-06-2011, 20:46
From what I've read through the years, then yes - quite probably. If only I had the room. Meanwhile> http://london.craigslist.co.uk/ele/2439722326.html
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
14-06-2011, 21:02
No this was.
http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/player/p3a-e.html
Neil McCauley
14-06-2011, 21:05
No this was.
http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/player/p3a-e.html
Well, you may be correct. A very interesting product which before your posting I had no idea existed. Thank you
Howard
Just a quick warning about that craigslist ad: I've seen those photos at least twice on Ebay before from different sellers (yes the exact same!) with the last being closed down and also the very same photos being used in other small ads on gumtree/craigslist..
Maybe it was on here, but it's been pointed out before as a scam..
Great looking deck though!
Seems like it's been used for scams on and off for years:
www.audioasylum.com (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/85/858001.html)
Can't comment on the sound quality of either, as I haven't had the pleasure of listening to them, but I'd hope that the Denon sounded better (as a motor unit), as the Pioneer looks bloody hideous in that shiny 'faux Rosewood', the Japs unfortunately seem to love! :spew:
I much prefer the 'bomb-proof' industrial looks of the Denon, and the fact that it has a professional broadcasting heritage, somewhat like an EMT :)
Marco.
pure sound
15-06-2011, 08:42
Said it before but worth repeating. I once turned down the offer of one of those Denons back in about 1990. £200 I think it was, in a shop in Eindhoven. It looked a bit big, difficult & ugly. :doh: :doh: :doh:
Ah the ignorance of youth!
Not a fan of the DD EMT's though.
Lol - I'd have probably done the same! :rolleyes:
With regard to EMTs, I wouldn't write them all off, as my understanding is that they're extremely susceptible to the benefits of being correctly 'fettled' (I'm talking here about mechanical adjustment, not set-up in terms of your system), and won't perform optimally unless they are 'spot on'.
And also, of course, results will vary depending on which model of EMT it is. I have my favourites :)
Btw, are you planning to do the Manchester show later in the year? If so, please bring your SP10, so we can do a Techy shoot-out, chez-moi :cool:
Marco.
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
15-06-2011, 09:15
This is a Japanese TT test from 1980 where the Pioneer and the EMT came equal top. The page doesn't open properly, so if any computer buffs can get in and get the pictures and reports it is well worth it.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/MISCELLANEOUS/SS1980TT/SS1980TT#
Ah, you have to click on the TVK v2 beta test button and the pics come up.
This is a better page on the TT http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-Exclusive_P3.html it was consistently considered in Japan to be the best TT they ever made, and as can be seen the *real* Rosewood plinth and *real* glass cover and cover can be removed if you want the butch look.
Go to the home page http://www.thevintageknob.org/ to link through everything.
Beobloke
15-06-2011, 09:30
True filth!
However, my favourite of the monster DDs that i've never heard and am probably never likely to hear is still this one -
http://knisi2001.web.fc2.com/gt-2000x.htm
Those are just pure T/T sex! :drool: :drool:
You might find, though, that the Pioneer and Yamaha are in some way related.... The drive system and plinth on the Exclusive P3 certainly look like what could be called 'adequately engineered' :eyebrows:
However, I'm not loving the tonearm. It looks rather lightweight and flimsy for the type of cartridges I'd want to strap to it!
Marco.
pure sound
15-06-2011, 09:56
People often refer to that test. In fact the EMT used was a 930 idler drive if I'm not mistaken not one of their DD's. Also it compared complete systems such as the Pioneer with its arm or the EMT with its arm with others where an arm was added. The SP10 Mk2 in that group was tested in the less than stellar obsidian plinth iirc. Even the LP12 used was an old rubber mat pre Valhalla version. It's safe to say that turntables (& thinking on plinths) and tonearms have moved on in the 30 or so years that have since elapsed. The other aspect was the use of the Thorens Rumble measuring device. Some recent experience of this suggests that its a far from definitive method of appraising the self noise of turntables. So while it was an interesting review it should really be seen as an historical document rather than anything that has too much relevance today.
BTH K10A
15-06-2011, 20:35
The Pioneer Exclusive P3a is one hell of a turntable package.
While EMT's are great I have to say the P3a is as good as it gets. I've only seen and heard one example in a fabulous system in Germany. The owner had gone through a number of serious turntables before aquiring it and rated it as the one piece of kit he would never part with. He had about 5 interchangable tonearm wands with it too. Apparantly it cost him a lot of money though.
http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/player/p3a-e.html
It's surprising but nice to see that the EMT 930 was considered the equal of the P3 though ;)
... the Pioneer looks bloody hideous in that shiny 'faux Rosewood', the Japs unfortunately seem to love! :spew:
Marco.
that'd be the same "faux" rosewood that clad your spendor wardrobes you used to sit in front of marco :)
pure sound
15-06-2011, 22:04
Weren't the Spendors nearer to being tree derived than the formica clad Lockwoods? ;)
that'd be the same "faux" rosewood that clad your spendor wardrobes you used to sit in front of marco...
Lol - they were very different, actually, dude.
First of all, the Spendies had a REAL, solid Rosewood veneer, and secondly, the finish was matt (understated and classy looking), and not the cheapo looking 'plastic shiny' finish of the Pioneer.
Hey, even your Zebrano 'bread bin' looks classier than that!! :lol: ;)
Marco.
Weren't the Spendors nearer to being tree derived than the formica clad Lockwoods? ;)
Exactly! But I know which ones I'd rather have!! :eyebrows:
Btw, the SP100s in Rosewood now cost just under £6k. I paid £3.5k for mine, brand new, in 2003. I had a lot of fun with them.
Marco.
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
15-06-2011, 22:15
The plinth on the P3a is actual polished Rosewood, it is not a veneer, so I am told by a Japanese company who were selling one second hand and I was contemplating buying it, it is very highly polished like a Rolls. The lid is glass not plastic.
solid and veneer...of course :scratch:
That may well be the case, Richard, but I just think it looks gaudy and tacky. I guess it's a personal taste thing. The only highly polished wood finish I like is piano black or white :)
Marco.
solid and veneer...of course :scratch:
Well, the cabinets on the Spendors weren't solid Rosewood, through and through, otherwise they'd be about double the price! Quite often speakers have a non-solid wood veneer, such as vinyl, which is made to look like a wood effect.
The SP100s had a solid Rosewood veneer over, more than likely, MDF.
Marco.
alfie2902
16-06-2011, 00:57
That would a nice positon to be in! Choosing between a Denon DP-100 or an Exclusive P3a!!
I think I'd ebay one of the kids & keep them both :lol:
Vinyleyes
16-06-2011, 01:56
The P3a ... has anyone here ever heard one .. up against say an SME20 with MkV tonearm .... I must say that Rosewood would soon settle down into something liveable with once it'd been through a few all nighters ,,, :eek: ,,,,, :cool:
pure sound
16-06-2011, 09:12
If I had the choice I'd prefer one using the old Rockport Sirius airbearing spindle & drive. From the 90's but vintage enough?
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/rockport.jpg
Haha, that's just bonkers! :eyebrows:
Btw, Guy, Puresound amps are being discussed on this thread and some queries are being raised which you may wish to address:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=224694#post224694
:)
Marco.
I would imagine this guy has heard and compared a lot, this includes Rockport on the right, Thorens Reference, Micro Seiki and it goes on!!!!
http://www.tubebbs.com/attachments/day_091202/0912020020e262a062611dcee9.jpg
His arms and cartridges....
http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh/2009d/IMG_1147t.jpg
http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh/2009d/IMG_1142t.jpg
OMG, I'm just about to have a seizure!! :stalks: :stalks: :eek: :eek:
Aside from anything else, I'd kill to have those cartridges....!
Marco.
Marco,
Just imagine the length of your signature - at least a screens worth :)
Alex
Aside from anything else, I'd kill to have those cartridges....!
There's at least two I'd fight you for! :spank::chainsaw:
Hehehehe... I bagsy the three at the front - and I've even got a tonearm arm to fit them to! :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Hehehehe... I bagsy the three at the front - and I've even got a tonearm arm to fit them to! :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Nope, sorry... get yer gloves on yer puff! :finger:
Gloves are for puffs - I use me bare knuckles and scratch and bite like a girl! :ner:
Is the candy-stripe one a Kiseki? I've heard a Lapis Lazuli, and it was phenomenal, but that one looks even more exotic.
Marco.
Ha - he's only got one more arm than me! But what a collection of arms and a none too shabby collection of cartridges to boot. :eek:
Welcome back, Barry... Nice 4000th post, btw! ;)
Marco.
Gloves are for puffs - I use me bare knuckles and scratch and bite like a girl! :ner:
Well, I'll put the gloves on, I wouldn't want to hurt you too much! :lol:
Is the candy-stripe one a Kiseki?
Might be, can't you tell? :eyebrows:
I'm pretty certain it is - bloody lovely looking thing!
Anyway, have you got a new tonearm yet? I liked the sound of that one you described to me :)
The new AudioNote ones I mentioned are also very good, albeit not quite as sexy - have a squinto:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9702
Marco.
jantheman
17-06-2011, 12:24
I thought porn was frowned upon..........
pure sound
17-06-2011, 15:01
I'd take the two central ones. The Kiseki is one of the 'lesser' Agate models. The LL was the top of their range. I had a Goldbug Brier once. I don't think you'd have liked it Marco, a bit on the lean side of neutral.
WOStantonCS100
18-06-2011, 06:03
http://www.tubebbs.com/attachments/day_091202/0912020020e262a062611dcee9.jpg
http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh/2009d/IMG_1142t.jpg
@#*&@! Soiled meself.
Ha - he's only got one more arm than me! But what a collection of arms and a none too shabby collection of cartridges to boot. :eek:
Are you also counting the arms that are fitted to the TT's? ;)
LOL - I like the preamp on a portable trolley so he doesn't need to get up!
As for those beautiful arms, I do hope they get some occasional use.
Are you also counting the arms that are fitted to the TT's? ;)
Ah - I hadn't thought about them! :(
OK, I'll try again: he's only got three more turntables than me. :rolleyes:
Think nothing of it - I'm insanely jealous, not just of the gear but of his listening room as well.
I bet he only plays Des O'Connor and Mantovani records!
Regards
Any idea what speakers he is using?
Slippershod
20-06-2011, 11:38
with reference to marco's comments above - check out the pic of the p3a
in the bottom right hand corner on this page - although I do like wooden plinths, I think it looks incredible without - much better:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-Exclusive_P3.html
with reference to marco's comments above - check out the pic of the p3a
in the bottom right hand corner on this page - although I do like wooden plinths, I think it looks incredible without - much better:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-Exclusive_P3.html
Is this what you mean?
http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1236091163.jpg
Slippershod
20-06-2011, 19:45
yes - thanks Gerry - couldn't save the image from the webpage.
RochaCullen
21-06-2011, 10:13
LOL - I like the preamp on a portable trolley so he doesn't need to get up!
As for those beautiful arms, I do hope they get some occasional use.
The trolley is cool, but the couch is a bit on the uncomfortable looking side. I suppose for ultra serious listening one shouldn't be too comfortable. :eek:
Is this what you mean?
http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1236091163.jpg
That's exactly what a top-notch T/T should look like and be about: serious 'no compromise' engineering, without unnecessary frippery (and the Pioneer looks so much better without its tacky faux-rosewood 'skirt')!
Marco.
pure sound
21-06-2011, 14:44
Conceptually not that different to what I do with the SP10 (actually that picture was the inspiration) although I imagine the Pioneer will be a good deal lighter! Having a sprung suspension with one of these heavyweight DD's is a good thing imho.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/doubledeckeronsprings.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/frontview.jpg
65 Kg bouncing at around 2 Hz makes it fairly earthquake proof.
How come you never demo it at shows like that? ;)
Agreed on the sprung suspension thing - it's one of the reasons why Isonoes work so well on the Techy....
Marco.
P.S I'm liking the Michell clamp. Is that a recent addition?
pure sound
21-06-2011, 14:58
I do have 2 SP10's. This one is just too large & heavy to move around. Once it gets installed somewhere it tends to stay put! I'd also need to build a custom crate to pack it in for transit. The other deck in the corian plinth is a good deal more portable.
I've been using the Michell clamp for a long time. I prefer this approach (I also have the old rubber Revolver PIG that works quite well) rather than stacking another heavy weight onto the label area. That really is asking for additional bearing noise to be generated imho.
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