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View Full Version : Subwoofer thrills and spills



colinB
12-06-2011, 21:35
I ve been living with my AVI Neutron 2.1 for a few months now but it surprised me tonight. Just finished The Social Network blu ray and im sure the neighbours are happy.
Theres a scene where the Napster founder is talking with the facebook guy in a club. My system just took of while i scrambled for the remote to turn it down. My flat turned into Ministry of Sound for 5 mins. This is my first home cinema and i had no idea it was capable of that :eek: Very impressed.

Macca
12-06-2011, 21:46
You can't beat watching a film with 'proper' sound :)

Jac Hawk
12-06-2011, 22:00
If you like to get the windows rattling try any of the Star Wars movies or the War of the Worlds when the alien ship emerges from the ground, totally awesome;)

Reid Malenfant
13-06-2011, 20:32
If you really want to push the boundaries & you have sub that can cope (preferably sealed box as 95% of reflex subs will unload the driver) then watch Sunshine :) It has serious output down to 10Hz, yes you read that correctly 10Hz :eyebrows: Apart from it's a class sci fi from Danny Boyle the music or should that be ambient score is incredible ;)

Check out the Home Theatre Shack & look for the Databass Of Movies with Deep Bass :eyebrows: DMDB :cool: Besides which i know from experience :smoking:

tannoy man
13-06-2011, 20:37
You can't beat watching a film with 'proper' sound :)

I'v got my DVD going through the Arden's. during Saving Private Ryan it feel's as if there's a Tiger Tank in the room:eek:

Mark Grant
13-06-2011, 20:47
Nothing like a good subwoofer with movies :)

I still have a paradigm servo 15, had it for about 7 years and no need to upgrade.

http://www.paradigm.com/products/paradigm-reference/archives/servo-15/servo-15

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_3/paradigm-servo-15-subwoofer-7-2005-part-1.html

Probably better models available these days, but it's great.:)

Reid Malenfant
13-06-2011, 20:50
Cracking sub Mark :) I use a Paradigm DSP-3400 for now but it'll be totally out classed as soon as i get my own work done :eyebrows:

Might take a while though ;)

Mark Grant
13-06-2011, 20:57
It does sound like real thunder sometimes :)

Years ago they where on clearance offer at Richer sounds, something like £399 or £499 which was crazily low at the time, the one I bought was the last one and 'open box' so I got it for even less... :eyebrows:

Reid Malenfant
13-06-2011, 20:59
Is it the original or V2?

Mark Grant
13-06-2011, 21:11
Not sure without looking but probably a 15A, which means there is an even better one the v2 :eek:

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15240

Reid Malenfant
13-06-2011, 21:18
Aye, the V2 is a sealed box with servo amp that controls the cone (like the earlier version) but has a 15" bass driver with +/- 25mm excursion ;) with a 3KW amp :eek: Not quite sure what the original was but 15mm springs to mind, which will still kick some proverbial botty even in a sealed box & less power :eyebrows:

The V2 has also been superceded :eyebrows:

electric beach
13-06-2011, 21:55
Subs get a bum rap in my opinion, partly through their association with home cinema, partly through the difficulty to integrate one (or two) with a stereo pair of speakers and partly with the obsessing over theatrical fireworks.

I use a sub to compliment my stereo, a Rel Strata2, and use the same system for music and films. Of course they do low frequencies but what has most potential is their effect on the perception of the whole frequency range. Any sound is just more real and natural if the lowest harmonics (maybe I don't mean that) are reproduced.

In Inception there is the scene where the shop windows are blowing out, into the street and into the room. Had me ducking for cover from the shards of glass sything through the air. That was the sub, not a supertweeter.

Even the ambient acoustic or a delicate sound that superficially contains no low frequencies, just doesn't sound so real without a sub.

And I now find one to be essential in my two channel preference for music - regardless of the low frequency prowess of the main pair. It aids locking the sound to the room, hints at live presence and weight, and increases the 3D effect of the soundstage.

Thinking about it, I've not noticed anyone else here using a 2.1 setup for music, but I'm sure there must be.

Jac Hawk
13-06-2011, 22:30
Subs get a bum rap in my opinion, partly through their association with home cinema, partly through the difficulty to integrate one (or two) with a stereo pair of speakers and partly with the obsessing over theatrical fireworks.

I use a sub to compliment my stereo, a Rel Strata2, and use the same system for music and films. Of course they do low frequencies but what has most potential is their effect on the perception of the whole frequency range. Any sound is just more real and natural if the lowest harmonics (maybe I don't mean that) are reproduced.

In Inception there is the scene where the shop windows are blowing out, into the street and into the room. Had me ducking for cover from the shards of glass sything through the air. That was the sub, not a supertweeter.

Even the ambient acoustic or a delicate sound that superficially contains no low frequencies, just doesn't sound so real without a sub.

And I now find one to be essential in my two channel preference for music - regardless of the low frequency prowess of the main pair. It aids locking the sound to the room, hints at live presence and weight, and increases the 3D effect of the soundstage.

Thinking about it, I've not noticed anyone else here using a 2.1 setup for music, but I'm sure there must be.

I started down the 2.1 route back in the late 80's with a set of KEF 101's and a Rogers Super Woofer, now in a big room those little Kef's needed the help of a sub, and i would agree with you when you say that a sub adds weight and presence even with large speakers. At the moment my living room system is a 5.1 setup with Mordaunt Short MS 45ti's front, MS 10's rear, a Polk Audio centre, and a Yamaha YST SW80, the sub needs replacing TBH it's great for music, but way out of it's depth for movies, but listening to music in 5.1 IMHO is great and gives a concert type feeling to the music that i've still not experienced to the same degree with a 2 or 2.1 setup, that said it's not perfect, sound quality tends to suffer a bit and it's not as easy as a stereo system to set up and the listening position is more critical.

Overall i would agree with you steve / val, subs and anything home theatre tends to take a bit of a beating from our twin box purists

Covenant
14-06-2011, 07:37
My sub is not too shabby:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/velodyne.htm
The digital room correction (adjusted on the TV) is great, means you can stick it anywhere.

colinB
14-06-2011, 08:14
Im surprised how easy it was to set mine up and yes its a sealed unit. I put it between the speakers and stuck the tv on top. Made a DIY platform from scraps of auralex and adjust the sub volume with a remote control. No going back now.
The new version has Lh inputs and a link for a AV processor but i will never have the room for 5.1. The version i have has a usb dac input which i use for spotify.
Also has analogue inputs for the turntable and 3 x 100w amps which are easy on the ear. Very happy.

keiths
14-06-2011, 10:47
Thinking about it, I've not noticed anyone else here using a 2.1 setup for music, but I'm sure there must be.
I'm using a REL Strata with my Mission 771es for music at the moment. Very impressed by how it sounds.

colinB
14-06-2011, 11:31
Out of all the RELs the strata seems to be the one for music and movies.

SpeakToTheHand
22-07-2012, 01:36
Subs get a bum rap in my opinion, partly through their association with home cinema, partly through the difficulty to integrate one (or two) with a stereo pair of speakers and partly with the obsessing over theatrical fireworks.

I use a sub to compliment my stereo, a Rel Strata2, and use the same system for music and films. Of course they do low frequencies but what has most potential is their effect on the perception of the whole frequency range. Any sound is just more real and natural if the lowest harmonics (maybe I don't mean that) are reproduced.

In Inception there is the scene where the shop windows are blowing out, into the street and into the room. Had me ducking for cover from the shards of glass scything through the air. That was the sub, not a supertweeter.

Even the ambient acoustic or a delicate sound that superficially contains no low frequencies, just doesn't sound so real without a sub.

And I now find one to be essential in my two channel preference for music - regardless of the low frequency prowess of the main pair. It aids locking the sound to the room, hints at live presence and weight, and increases the 3D effect of the soundstage.

Thinking about it, I've not noticed anyone else here using a 2.1 setup for music, but I'm sure there must be.

I agree completely.

Subs really do get a "bum wrap" and most people don't have them set up correctly. Everything from room placement, crossover settings or their ability to integrate well into existing speakers is all vitally important. A mate of mine had his AVR crossover set to direct all the Low Frequency Effect [LFE] to the sub under 100Hz and his sub crossover set to only start at under 80Hz. Leaving a 20Hz void in bass integration between the speakers and the sub:doh:. That's something that the owners of 2 channel towers generally don't need to worry about.
IMO the bass extension a well setup sub can deliver to a room will in most cases out performs what "big woofer" tower speakers can produce.
The reasons are:
Location - Large tower speakers is mainly set to achieve the right stereo sound stage. Unfortunately this speaker location does not always suit the standing wave - [LFE] that the woofer has compared to the listening position. A sub gives more placement options and once you have the sweet spot sorted you can stack up multiple subs.
Wattage- The amp does not have to "load up" to supply the grunt for large woofers as the sub looks after its own requirements.
I use The Hurt Locker movie to show very good solid LFE with my 3x M&K subs (http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g10/R107roadster/MKsubbystack.jpg) [5x 12" drivers @ 600w RMS]

Cheers:cool:

sq225917
22-07-2012, 07:40
The Strata was just a good price point, the bigger subs were better, just way expensive. I used to run the Strata 3 with my Kef ref 203 and with my Es14's. Ynwan still runs a Rel Stadium with his ES14's.

realysm42
22-07-2012, 08:33
I use a 2.1 for my music right now. After playing with the low pass filter, it fits in happily with the rest of the system, I can't imagine not having it.

YNWaN
22-07-2012, 09:30
As sq writes, I use a REL Stadium with my ES14's and only for music - there is only my hi-fi in that room. I've gone to a lot of trouble to integrate the sub with the speakers and it certainly isn't a five minute job. The output level on my sub is set very low - if you do turn it up you can determine the resonant frequency of pretty much everything in the room!

flatpopely
23-07-2012, 12:31
As sq writes, I use a REL Stadium with my ES14's and only for music - there is only my hi-fi in that room. I've gone to a lot of trouble to integrate the sub with the speakers and it certainly isn't a five minute job. The output level on my sub is set very low - if you do turn it up you can determine the resonant frequency of pretty much everything in the room!

And I'm still not convinced by it!

YNWaN
23-07-2012, 13:27
Yeah, yeah

electric beach
23-07-2012, 22:09
As sq writes, I use a REL Stadium with my ES14's and only for music - there is only my hi-fi in that room. I've gone to a lot of trouble to integrate the sub with the speakers and it certainly isn't a five minute job. The output level on my sub is set very low - if you do turn it up you can determine the resonant frequency of pretty much everything in the room!

You need a bit of TLC, sorry, DSP from an Antimode Mark :eyebrows:

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/anti-mode-s.htm

The test sweeps are very useful for finding and eliminating rattles and vibrations that get excited so fleetingly that you don't realise what they are. I found a loose screw in my fire surround and vibration/ buzzing in a hollow internal door!

The main issue I have with a 2.1 system is the variation of deep bass on the recordings, which means a bit of adjustment to the sub volume level despite having it integrated. I'm sure a lot of music isn't monitored with a sub (possibly most actually); I often find bumps and thumps from the studio that would definately have been killed if they were noticed.