Wolfson Dual Differential DACs 8740 chip

[nbaptista]

I find out that Rega Saturn and Cambridge DacMagic use the same chip( Wolfson Dual Differential DACs 8740). Is not weird that a top end cd player and a budget dac use the same chip?Anyone could me explain this?It seems that DacMagic is not so a budget DAC as some suggest it is!

[oldson]

i am no tech in this area.
but there is more to a dac than the chip?
i too fell in to this same trap (way of thinking).

[Reid Malenfant]

The DAC chip is pretty cheap in all honesty, it's the implementation that makes things sing as Simon mentioned. How good this is is where the money goes at the end of the day ;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Same job in my majik dsi I think...

[nbaptista]

Same job in my majik dsi I think...
same Wolfson chip?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Think so .. I'm not to clever at these things but it's de a something 8740
Here you go bunch of linnys banging on about how much it doesn't matter what chip is in it ... http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=4842
I seem to remember understanding that the caiman has the dac chip that the akurate and klimax have ... But I might be way off ... As I said I'm my hot on this stuff, I'm more worried about what it sounds like really

[nat8808]

It's all down to implementation.. and marketing of course!

I mean the Audio Note DAC 5 uses the same dac chips as a budget synthesiser does, the Nord Micro-Modular for example and the synth has 4 of them inside, the Audio Note just the one. The Nord can be picked up for £200 and the AudioNote about £12000. The chips are still doing the same job in both, converting digital to analogue..

Rarely are highly specialised, expensive audio DAC chips used these days - just different implementations of cost effective chips.

You will also start to realise how often things are priced because of how they sound rather than their build cost. If it sounds good, a manufacturer will try to charge as much as they can get away with or over engineer the casing and market it as 'high-end' with a pricetag to match.

[leo]

The dac chip is the heart of the unit so you will always get a slight signature of the particular chip used, more so with a voltage out chip which does the I/V internally for convenience. If the internal I/V is poor your performance will always be compromised. Current out dac chips require an external I/V stage which can add its own problems making the circuit more complex and expensive.
All dac chips will heavily rely on the quality of PSU's,regulation and analogue output stages, some are more sensitive to supplies than others.
There is very good voltage out and current out dacs, plenty to suit anybody's design.

[nbaptista]

There is very good voltage out and current out dacs, plenty to suit anybody's design.
what DAC´s? could you mention a few?and about the DacMagic?Is it well built?I was thinking to upgrade to a Rega

[Vincent Kars]

There are very expensive DACs (box)
However if we look at the DACs (the chipset) the price is moderate.

E.g. the WM8741 is priced at $6.71 in 10-k piece lots.
http://www.en-genius.net/site/zones/audiovideoZONE/product_reviews/avp_102907

[BTH K10A]

All mass produced DACs are cheap if the quantity purchased is large enough. Quality of the other components, casework and development is where the money goes.

The WM8740 is Wolfson's high performance stereo offering so is at the top of their 2 channel CD/DVD range. My Pioneer PD-D9-J has the WM8741 which is similar and can handle DSD too.

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/#multi_channel_dacs

[StanleyB]

The various components might be cheap in 10K quantities, but who is currently selling a DAC with those kind of production quantity? Most production runs would be around 1K at a time on the really big sellers I reckon, or even lower in the case of my own stuff and no doubt many others. I for one could not afford to sit on U$50K to U$150K of component stock for the year to year production of a product line.
Many people want to buy at component cost plus a small manufacturing fee, and the Chinese DAC builders are obliging. But lack of support and the quality of the result will soon drive buyers of those kind of products to look at something a bit/lot more expensive.
So the DAC that many want at cost of components plus small manufacturing fee turns out to be a waste of time if you want to buy a more expensive DAC in less to no time. What would be a better idea to look for is a DAC that is well designed and sounds good. If you have to worry about the cost then you can't afford it.

[nat8808]

The various components might be cheap in 10K quantities, but who is currently selling a DAC with those kind of production quantity? Most production runs would be around 1K at a time on the really big sellers I reckon, or even lower in the case of my own stuff and no doubt many others. I for one could not afford to sit on U$50K to U$150K of component stock for the year to year production of a product line.
Many people want to buy at component cost plus a small manufacturing fee, and the Chinese DAC builders are obliging. But lack of support and the quality of the result will soon drive buyers of those kind of products to look at something a bit/lot more expensive.
So the DAC that many want at cost of components plus small manufacturing fee turns out to be a waste of time if you want to buy a more expensive DAC in less to no time. What would be a better idea to look for is a DAC that is well designed and sounds good. If you have to worry about the cost then you can't afford it.

AKM? They turn up in anything from cheapish home studio soundcards to Berhinger gear to music streaming kit to more expensive high-end hifi. The 4395 chip for example. And of course turn up in lots of Chinese Dac kits.

[StanleyB]

When you mention AKM, do you mean a chip or a finished product?

[trane]

A silly question it may be but I wonder whether a 1pc.-WM8740-based circuit could be modified to employ 2pcs. of the same DAC, one for each channel, just by connecting the right pins to their proper connections, and leaving all the other parts of the circuit untouched?

[StanleyB]

It's possible, but some more changes than that need doing. See the datasheet and in particular the MOD8X connection method.

[trane]

Thanks for your valuable input, Stanley. I reckon I will give a try to it to see what a Rega Apollo is capable of with the 2.pcs WM8740s, 3 transformers, much better PSU elkos, and a decent clock on board...

BTW, don't you mind checking this thread> http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12187 , please?

[StanleyB]

BTW, don't you mind checking this thread> http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12187 , please?
I couldn't find any spelling mistakes and the grammar seems fine:scratch:.

[trane]

I couldn't find any spelling mistakes and the grammar seems fine:scratch:.

I meant a comment on the enquiry, Stanley, please... ;) Thanks for the spelling/grammar check, though :) , I am a teacher of English LOL

[lurcher]

Thanks for your valuable input, Stanley. I reckon I will give a try to it to see what a Rega Apollo is capable of with the 2.pcs WM8740s, 3 transformers, much better PSU elkos, and a decent clock on board...

Stick a CPLD in front of a bunch of DAC's and you can play all sorts of games, but its all wasted if the power supply board layout and analog stage is not done with care and understanding.

[StanleyB]

I am not into external clocks. They don't improve things. They only make it sound different.

[nat8808]

When you mention AKM, do you mean a chip or a finished product?

Late reply I know....

I mean chips - seem to be in loads of gear from cheaper semi-pro A/D D/A boxes to some high-end boutique expensive DACs, mostly AKM 4395/6/7 or 4393 in cheaper stuff.

As an aside and back to Wolfson - I've an Arcam DAC board from a CD82 that uses 2 x 8740 chips and I think inverts phase to one and sums both outputs to cancel noise etc - not entirely sure. It was taken out as the owner upgraded to the CD192 board instead and I intended to use it for a DAC project.

[jon1]

I bought one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320642110375&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT...and change the opamps works a treat;)


jon

[Ali Tait]

How does it sound?

[jon1]

How does it sound?






Ali the imagine and clarity are excellent swapped out all the original op amps and replaced them with AD797...some more pics and info here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/166013-i-just-received-my-wolfson-4-0-biy-dac.html


jon

[Ali Tait]

Cheers, looks interesting.

[jon1]

Cheers, looks interesting.





Well worth it;)



jon