Strongest placebo ever

[magiccarpetride]

I've recently decided to be open-minded (for a change;), so I'm now into cheap-ass tweaks. A friend managed to talk me into this story how, due to certain piezo-electrical properties, some crystals can affect low voltage circuitry, blah blah blah. To cut the long story short, I took some of the crystals that my wife has lying around in her studio (rose quartz and amethyst, mostly), and installed them on the AC power cables and interconnects, etc.

Listening impressions: weird. It's not that I could hear any new, previously unheard details, it's just that the well known details in well known songs appear to contain more depth. Not depth in the sense of deeper soundstage, but depth in the sense of deeper sound, sound with more sparkle and presence. In general, more enjoyable sound quality.

I'm sure it's nothing but a very strong placebo verging on self-hypnosis, but I'm still curious if anyone else had ever experienced something similar. Also, I must insist here that I'm not all that prone to placebos, as I've demonstrated, on more than one occasion, that glitzy, ultra-expensive hi fi gear can leave me totally cold. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not easily falling for good looks when it comes to hi fi gear... That is, until now.

[Stratmangler]

I'm sure it's nothing but a very strong placebo verging on self-hypnosis .....

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

[sburrell]

I took some of the crystals that my wife has lying around in her studio (rose quartz and amethyst, mostly), and installed them on the AC power cables and interconnects, etc.
:worthless:

[Thing Fish]

AS above. I can't wait...

[synsei]

I read your post with interest Alex and it set me thinking... :scratch:

I hope you don't mind but I took your idea one step further and it was so successful I'm thinking of patenting the result... :stalks:

PREPARE TO BE AMAZED BY...


-<{}{}{}{}>- The Stereode -<{}{}{}{}>-

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/Stereode.jpg

:cool:

[Alex_UK]

Interesting thread (as always, Alex!) I've never tried Amethyst/Quartz in a hifi context, but I always used to have a small selection of amethyst around my computer monitors in the CRT days, as I was told by someone "into" crystals that they absorb the energy being kicked out. On the other hand, I also recall vaguely being told to be careful about quartz, as this can amplify the energy.

Maybe try with just the amethyst, and then just the quartz, and see if there is any difference between the two?

PS - this is NOT a pi$$ take - I personally am not sure if I believe in the "mumbo jumbo" around crystals, but given that I think they look lovely, I was always happy to have some on my desk whether they did any good or not!

[magiccarpetride]

PS - this is NOT a pi$$ take - I personally am not sure if I believe in the "mumbo jumbo" around crystals, but given that I think they look lovely, I was always happy to have some on my desk whether they did any good or not!

I personally tend not to buy into any of the more refined tweaks. But I was proven wrong on a couple of occasions (the last one was when I finally caved in and cleaned my contacts -- holly excrement, what an improvement!)

With crystals, I'm on a fence. On one hand, despite the rationalistic explanation that they do indeed possess piezo-electrical yadda yadda yadda, me thinks that these properties might be too feeble to truly affect anything. So, I'm not denying the works, I'm just skeptical about the magnitude of the proposed effect. Can we really truly hear it?

On the other hand, I just can't afford to ignore what my ears are telling me. Why would I? If it feels good, I'm not gonna kibosh it just so that I can claim that I'm a man of principles.

[magiccarpetride]

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

A sophisticated person is someone who can entertain a thought without necessarily accepting it.

[Werner Berghofer]

Can we really truly hear it?

Without any doubt: of course! Place one of the crystals on your Beresford Caiman DAC, but not before the DAC has been burnt-in for exactly 666 hours. For best results make sure the crystal was broken out of the rock by a nude virgin in a cloudless full moon night.

I can assure you: the new sound experience will blast through your skull.

[Tim]

:lolsign:

I don't want a crystal Werner, but can I borrow some of them there nude virgins?

[Stratmangler]

A sophisticated person is someone who can entertain a thought without necessarily accepting it.

Woof, woof !

[Werner Berghofer]

can I borrow some of them there nude virgins?

Really interested? I can honestly testify that the dynamic range dramatically is extended if the stone breakers are not completely nude and no virgins anymore.

[Tim]

A sophisticated person is someone who can entertain a thought without necessarily accepting it.
Double think;

"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them...."

George Orwell

;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I'd happily take on board any conclusive proof one way or another about this stuff working or not working ... Until then an open mind with a hint skepticism is the only sensible route to take with this sort of thing ... Basically watch your walet, but why not give it a go ... It might do somthing, if it works, even if it's all in ya head then so what ... It's not harming anyone!
I can't understand people blindly writing this stuff off ... It's as mad as blindly accepting it... With no conclusive evidence either way there is only one logical position for me and that the one I have just mentioned!

[Erik van Voorst]

Hi Alex,

Since you seem to mention pretty much the same equipment as I have in your signature :lol:.......I can only agree.;)

I share your experience indeed it does the same things for me so for us it is not a matter of discussion anymore...IT DOES EFFECT...your music.

However it is like cooking, I find that your system can benefit hugely from wood-stones-cotton-silk and all the other "snake-oil" to non-believers aga non-listeners.:ner:.....but it IS like cooking meaning you can also degrade your wishfull effects by overdoing it...

The best thing for me is implementing it for a couple of weeks and changing back again to do a proper comparative listening...

My personal experience that every now and then I do not like to implement a "sudden effect" long term after all...:eyebrows:

[magiccarpetride]

Basically watch your walet, but why not give it a go ... It might do somthing, if it works, even if it's all in ya head then so what ... It's not harming anyone!

Precisely. That's why I said that I've decided to be more open-minded for once in my life. Meaning, I'm only going to use free, or near free stuff (like, I've recently spend $11.00 on the contact cleaning spray; works wonders on my system!) Crystals came free for me, because my wife's been collecting them for aesthetic reasons, so I thought to myself: "Hey, why not?"


I can't understand people blindly writing this stuff off ... It's as mad as blindly accepting it... With no conclusive evidence either way there is only one logical position for me and that the one I have just mentioned!

Like I've mentioned, the problem lies in the fact that some people seem incapable of entertaining a thought without feeling compelled to accept it. And that prospect scares the excrement out of them.

[magiccarpetride]

Hi Alex,

Since you seem to mention pretty much the same equipment as I have in your signature :lol:.......I can only agree.;)

I share your experience indeed it does the same things for me so for us it is not a matter of discussion anymore...IT DOES EFFECT...your music.

However it is like cooking, I find that your system can benefit hugely from wood-stones-cotton-silk and all the other "snake-oil" to non-believers aga non-listeners.:ner:.....but it IS like cooking meaning you can also degrade your wishfull effects by overdoing it...

The best thing for me is implementing it for a couple of weeks and changing back again to do a proper comparative listening...

My personal experience that every now and then I do not like to implement a "sudden effect" long term after all...:eyebrows:

Finally, I meet a colleague who also has the best possible system. Great minds think like they don't think.

[magiccarpetride]

Double think;

"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them...."

George Orwell

;)

That's hard-core lunatic asylum talk. I explicitly forbid it here!

[magiccarpetride]

I read your post with interest Alex and it set me thinking... :scratch:

I hope you don't mind but I took your idea one step further and it was so successful I'm thinking of patenting the result... :stalks:

PREPARE TO BE AMAZED BY...


-<{}{}{}{}>- The Stereode -<{}{}{}{}>-

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/Stereode.jpg

:cool:

That picture is worthless without a thread.

[Reid Malenfant]

I read your post with interest Alex and it set me thinking... :scratch:

I hope you don't mind but I took your idea one step further and it was so successful I'm thinking of patenting the result... :stalks:

PREPARE TO BE AMAZED BY...


-<{}{}{}{}>- The Stereode -<{}{}{}{}>-

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/Stereode.jpg

:cool:
4740 :clap: Nice one Dave! :lolsign:

[magiccarpetride]

4740 :clap: Nice one Dave! :lolsign:

I agree. Looks like a giant vulva.

[Alex_UK]

I agree. Looks like a giant vulva.

Hey, it looks nothing like one!

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/playboy_volvo.jpg

Oh, you said VULVA!

[Reid Malenfant]

It's the same colour! :lolsign:

[Tim]

Oh, you said VULVA!
:scratch: . . . what's a Vulva Uncle Alex?

[Alex_UK]

:scratch: . . . what's a Vulva Uncle Alex?

:lol:

[Reid Malenfant]

:scratch: . . . what's a Vulva Uncle Alex?
Hey, it takes two to tango ;)

[Alex_UK]

Hey, it takes two to tango ;)

Oh, its a dance!

[Tim]

Oh, its a dance!
Of course :doh: silly me.......

KsrrXZzzegw

[Alex_UK]

Of course :doh: silly me.......

KsrrXZzzegw

:D

Now if my wife caught me googling "dancing vulva" I would be in serious trouble...

[synsei]

ROFLMAO... :cool:

[zanash]

come on chaps ...thought you'd at least have the wit to accept what the original poster experienced.

To just say can't happen its impossible or just take the proverbial ..shows a distinct lack of open mindedness with great dolops of ignorance ...

I'm not going to say I've heard similar ..because I haven't but I can appreciate that there are some damn strange things out there.

to those who say it can't effect the sound ..prove it !

For those that have tried it ....just because it did not work for you does not mean that there is no effect , it just means you were unable to hear it ...nothing more [I fall into this catagory]

for those who have had an effect from this sort of thing ..well done for being open minded enough to try it !

[Stratmangler]

come on chaps ...thought you'd at least have the wit to accept what the original poster experienced.

To just say can't happen its impossible or just take the proverbial ..shows a distinct lack of open mindedness with great dolops of ignorance ...

I'm not going to say I've heard similar ..because I haven't but I can appreciate that there are some damn strange things out there.

to those who say it can't effect the sound ..prove it !

For those that have tried it ....just because it did not work for you does not mean that there is no effect , it just means you were unable to hear it ...nothing more

for those who have had an effect from this sort of thing ..well done for being open minded enough to try it !

No-one has said that crystals used in this way can't affect the sound.
In fact I actually agreed with the OP over a possible scenario hypothesis that [I]he came up with (a point lost on the OP, I must add).

So please read things carefully before you accuse people of being ignorant.

[synsei]

I read 'crystals' and considering I was staring at a Geode whilst reading the post, the first image that came into my head was the one I posted. I thought it was very funny, but I don't think the OP saw it that way. I guess not everyone has my sense of humour, but hey ho... :rolleyes:

[HighFidelityGuy]

I've seen photos where people had glues rose quartz crystals inside their amps for supposed benefits. It looks like madness to me but I don't like to completely discount things as nonsense until I've tried them so who knows, maybe this works. :confused:

For people that don't know, a piezoelectric crystal is a crystal that when physically "excited" (hit with something) produces a voltages. Or when a voltage is applied to them they vibrate. They are used in various applications from cigarette lighters to cooling/heating plates.

So it appears to me that if these rose quartz crystals are effecting the audio signals though a piezoelectric effect, then it should either be that the presence of a nearby electrical signal is causing the crystal to vibrate, or the presence of vibrations in the room/system are causing the crystal to produce a voltage. The latter seems very unlikely to me as I don't think the vibrations in the room would be strong enough to cause this effect but I'm no expert so who knows.

If the effect is being caused by a piezoelectric effect then it would seem logical that the same effect or an even more pronounced one could be gained from the application of some proper piezoelectric crystals like those found in piezoelectric transducers, peltier coolers or in some fag lighters.

I personally don't have time to strap fag lighters to my hi-fi so I'll leave that to someone else. ;)

Joking aside, that's about all I can hypothesise on the subject but I'd be interested to hear other peoples thoughts or experiences. :cool:

[Tim]

No-one has said that crystals used in this way can't affect the sound.
In fact I actually agreed with the OP over a possible scenario hypothesis that he came up with (a point lost on the OP, I must add).

So please read things carefully before you accuse people of being ignorant.
I think he mistook our joviality as more than what it was, just a bit of AoS fun which I am sure Alex (OP) took in the spirit it was intended..... ;)

[magiccarpetride]

:scratch: . . . what's a Vulva Uncle Alex?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulva

[magiccarpetride]

I've seen photos where people had glues rose quartz crystals inside their amps for supposed benefits. It looks like madness to me...

If we care for the safety of our children, if we at all care for our jobs and for our country, we ought to coral these individuals who glue rose quartz crystals inside their amps and drag them to the court of law. They need a fair trial, to be found guilty as charged, and to be sentenced under the current law, as a telling example of what awaits those who dare do silly things such as these.

Failing to do that would mean that the terrorists have already won.

[synsei]

I can reliably report that :lol: has been the unwitting victim of a brutal murder on this thread :deceased: :scratch:

Adios amigos :hmm:

[Marco]

Did I hear someone mention vulva? Now that reminds me of a terrible draught I once experienced.......

:eyebrows:

Marco.

[Yoga]

I read your post with interest Alex and it set me thinking... :scratch:

I hope you don't mind but I took your idea one step further and it was so successful I'm thinking of patenting the result... :stalks:

PREPARE TO BE AMAZED BY...


-<{}{}{}{}>- The Stereode -<{}{}{}{}>-

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/Stereode.jpg

:cool:

Brilliant :¬)

Crystals do have some very interesting (and provable) properties. Can this effect audio clarity?

No idea, but I'm open to the possibility.

The fact you're not even 'physically' sitting at your PC, reading this right now, is enough to keep my mind open to anything :¬)

Edit: LOL @ vulva antics!

[idc]

There are certain hifi products where they may be something in them which causes people to experience a difference in the overall sound.

Crystals is not one of them.......unless they are of the type that are used to keep time due to their highly accurate, regulated vibrations..... but does that mean crystals can suffer from jitter...have I just accidentally created more audiophile psuedoscience........ bugger!

[Effem]

Our house is brim full of crystals, what with the missus being a crystal healer anawl that.

Have been racking my brain how the magic carpet man has " installed them on the AC power cables and interconnects, etc." and in my mind's I eye I see great big lumps sellotaped onto to all the wiring. Ooer missus.

If this man could enlighten us how he did it I am prepared to give it a lash :eyebrows:

[technobear]

I agree with Frank. The method of installation needs to be made crystal clear :)

As to how it works, I expect the explanation will have many facets :eyebrows:

[nat8808]

to those who say it can't effect the sound ..prove it !



Proving a negative is impossible - and used by people with no proof for the positive as evidence.

You need to prove the positive, i.e. that it DOES effect the sound.

MagicCarpetRide has proven it to himself.. which is of course no real proof to others. Need to prove it to yourself.

I've no idea either way.. and don't think I'll bother to find out just yet, not before I'm done with box swapping anyway.

[nat8808]

Our house is brim full of crystals, what with the missus being a crystal healer anawl that.

Have been racking my brain how the magic carpet man has " installed them on the AC power cables and interconnects, etc." and in my mind's I eye I see great big lumps sellotaped onto to all the wiring. Ooer missus.

If this man could enlighten us how he did it I am prepared to give it a lash :eyebrows:

That's probably it, lashed to the cables.

I've seen little (expensive) bags of stones sold as similar things, tied to the cable. Of course it was part of a derisory thread of such things and everyone was lol-ing all over the place...

[nat8808]

I've seen photos where people had glues rose quartz crystals inside their amps for supposed benefits. It looks like madness to me but I don't like to completely discount things as nonsense until I've tried them so who knows, maybe this works. :confused:

For people that don't know, a piezoelectric crystal is a crystal that when physically "excited" (hit with something) produces a voltages. Or when a voltage is applied to them they vibrate. They are used in various applications from cigarette lighters to cooling/heating plates.

So it appears to me that if these rose quartz crystals are effecting the audio signals though a piezoelectric effect, then it should either be that the presence of a nearby electrical signal is causing the crystal to vibrate, or the presence of vibrations in the room/system are causing the crystal to produce a voltage. The latter seems very unlikely to me as I don't think the vibrations in the room would be strong enough to cause this effect but I'm no expert so who knows.

If the effect is being caused by a piezoelectric effect then it would seem logical that the same effect or an even more pronounced one could be gained from the application of some proper piezoelectric crystals like those found in piezoelectric transducers, peltier coolers or in some fag lighters.

I personally don't have time to strap fag lighters to my hi-fi so I'll leave that to someone else. ;)

Joking aside, that's about all I can hypothesise on the subject but I'd be interested to hear other peoples thoughts or experiences. :cool:

That would be an interesting concept - something that kind of absorbed electro-magnetic fields of wires by either turning the electro-magnetic energy into kinetic vibration or perhaps resonating electro-magnetically with the field but with enough time-lag to pull any smearing further back in the time domain so that it didn't confuse the brain so much.. if you see what I mean (probably talking nonsense). Would that be similar to a ferrous ring too?

See, once the idea becomes more tangible, I become more interested..

[magiccarpetride]

Our house is brim full of crystals, what with the missus being a crystal healer anawl that.

Have been racking my brain how the magic carpet man has " installed them on the AC power cables and interconnects, etc." and in my mind's I eye I see great big lumps sellotaped onto to all the wiring. Ooer missus.

If this man could enlighten us how he did it I am prepared to give it a lash :eyebrows:

We're now entering the voodoo/witchcraft territory. Sort of like audiophile-grade snow (including the yellow audiophile-grade snow). Snow makes everything sound better, because it's a soft cover on the ground, dampening many unwanted incendiary noises, such as the car alarms going off out on the street.

With crystals, there's more than one school of thought. In general, the near-consensus seems to be that crystals should be grouped using lumps varying in size. Furthermore, one theory insists that such grouping should be lubricated -- some people even use machine oil for that;)

The rationale is that, as the system is playing and vibrating and RFI is happening, crystals vibrate too, and thus generate tincy wincy tiny little piezo electrical impulses. Somehow (don't ask me how), these are beneficial for reducing the interferences in the electrical signal, or something.

Usually people bundle their crystals in little plastic bags (Ziplock?) and then affix those to various parts of electronic equipment. I was told that the most bang for the buck is to be had at the point where power cables attach to the components. Also, any other points of contact such as where the interconnects attach to the output or to the input sockets, etc.

Finally, complete crackpot nuts tend to open their components and install crystals inside, most likely place would be the transformers in the power amp, etc.

You can go mental about these things, but the bottom line is to strictly verify any changes with your own ears. You will find that some (most?) changes make no audible difference whatsoever, some changes on the other hand may make the sound appear more liquid, more pleasing to the ear.

In case you're a complete skeptic (which we all are), there is a relatively easy test to convince you that something might actually be going on there. That test is called overdoing it. Yes, it is possible to overdo the crystals and to get to the point where you actually royally fuck up the sound. Backing out of that fuckup is easy, just keep removing the darn crystals until your ears feel a much needed relief.

Happy crystallization!

[jostber]

This one has it all:

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/12/08/gla-55-speakers_2zLEM_22974.jpg

http://www.wirefresh.com/harman-kardons-gla-55-wedge-wallopin-crystal-speaker-system-hits-the-uk/

[Marco]

Hey, Alex, good to see you again, dude! Where ya been hiding? :)

Marco.

[aquapiranha]

Oh ffs.

[technobear]

Oh ffs.

:ner:

[magiccarpetride]

Hey, Alex, good to see you again, dude! Where ya been hiding? :)

Marco.

Hey Marco!

I'm becoming very active at the live music scene. Been playing live gigs like crazy, enjoying it more than I could've ever imagined. I'm fortunate to have hooked up with some fine young musicians, and we're playing up a storm!

[Marco]

Nice one, dude - glad to hear things are going well! :cool:

Marco.

[magiccarpetride]

Nice one, dude - glad to hear things are going well! :cool:

Marco.

I forgot to tell you, I'm becoming a huge fan of rampant stupidity:)

[Yoga]

Hey Marco!

I'm becoming very active at the live music scene. Been playing live gigs like crazy, enjoying it more than I could've ever imagined. I'm fortunate to have hooked up with some fine young musicians, and we're playing up a storm!

Sweet. What do you play (both instrument and genre)?

[magiccarpetride]

Sweet. What do you play (both instrument and genre)?

I play guitar. I'm very fortunate that my band consists of kick-ass schooled musicians, so we can play all kinds of eclectic repertoire -- from Creedence Clearwater Revival (two and a half chords), to Thelonius Monk and beyond (approximately 126 chords per tune, give or take a few dozen chords). Plus, we have two great looking female vocalists with incredible pipes -- these girls can blow! Moreover, they're also fabulous dancers, so it's one of the most entertaining acts on the contemporary scene.

[Alex_UK]

Plus, we have two great looking female vocalists with incredible pipes -- these girls can blow! Moreover, they're also fabulous dancers

:worthless:

(And a YouTube link if you can manage it! :eyebrows:)

[Marco]

Any 'oral' skills are not to be sniffed at! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[magiccarpetride]

Any 'oral' skills are not to be sniffed at! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Oh yeah. And I forgot to add -- they're very eager to blow!

[Alex_UK]

Oh yeah. And I forgot to add -- they're very eager to blow!

I refer the honourable gentleman to my last post above! ;)