Beechwoods' Den - June 2011. The Technics Edition. [Archive]

Beechwoods

07-06-2011, 17:11

Not that Technics...

... this Technics!

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods_den/file-1.jpg

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods_den/file-5.jpg

The Technics RS1500. Quarter inch 2-track record, switchable 2 and 4 track playback. Direct drive, fantastic isoloop transport. Fantastically smooth tape play, fantastic record and playback... can you tell I'm loving this machine :lolsign:

Well so much so that I've reorganised my room around it...

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods_den/file-2.jpg

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods_den/file.jpg http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods_den/file-3.jpg

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods_den/file-4.jpg

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods_den/file-6.jpg

I'm still using my lovely old Quad 33-303 and Rogers JR149's... a great combination for a small room. No urge to upgrade anything now :yay: How cool is that :)

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods_den/file-7.jpg

The Grand Wazoo

07-06-2011, 17:28

FWOOAAAR!!!
About time too!
Looks good in that room, Nick. You must be chuffed to bits

Marco

07-06-2011, 17:41

DSJR

07-06-2011, 17:42

Oh bloody hell, how much did that rarity cost you? A mate bought one from Sound org in York for several hundred quid around twenty years ago. I shudder to think how much one of these would be now...

At the time, although the transport was truly wonderful, I cabn't remember if this machine was worth nearly double the cost of a Revox B77 in playback quality. It was so long ago now and I suspect both machines would benefit from an update.

Glad you'll give it a great and loving home. A true classic in anyone's language and it works properly too :)

Beechwoods

07-06-2011, 18:20

The Technics is a thing of beauty, Nick! You must be chuffed as a badger. Great pics... But where's yer Lenco? Us vinyl nuts would like to see some T/T 'porn', too! ;)

Request: a big loving close-up of yer Lenco, please :)

Will do! And I am, chuffed as a badger that is!

P.S What's that, as well - a Tascam CDP? And what's that 'graphic equaliser' thingy under your Quad kit?

Oooh... graphic equaliser?! No it's a Behringer 8-way rackmount mixer. I use it to manage the umpteen sources vying for the 2 inputs on the Quad 33. I don't use it as a mixer per-se, just to route the source I want into the 'Aux 1' on the pre. Aux 2 is reserved for a single source connected directly. It's a necessary evil when it comes to having so many sources available at the same time. I also use the dbx200x to handle 3 tape sources into the 1 tape loop on the 33.

The Tascam machine is a HD-P2 Solid State recorder. It's a fantastic 24 bit 96khz sample rate capable digital recorder that records to Compact Flash cards. I use it for any Analogue > Digital transfers I need to do; at the moment it's plugged directly into the 2nd pair of Line Outs on the Techie. It's fab; one pair go into the dbx200x for routing into the amp, the others go directly into the recorder for short-wire recording to digital.

Oh bloody hell, how much did that rarity cost you? A mate bought one from Sound org in York for several hundred quid around twenty years ago. I shudder to think how much one of these would be now...

Glad you'll give it a great and loving home. A true classic in anyone's language and it works properly too :)

Dave, you're going to kill me. £575 plus a tank of petrol and a 7 hour round trip to pick it up. A very lucky right place right time eBay purchase from an excellent gentleman who had bought the machine from it's first owner four or five years ago. He still had an RS1700 and a number of other - pro - machines and was rationalising his collection. My luck was as much down to 'local pickup only' as anything. The seller didn't want it damaged in transit. I've no idea how the Technics compares to the Revox, but it beats my Pioneer and Tandberg machines. I *love* the transport as well, so gentle to the tape.

Spectral Morn

07-06-2011, 18:38

Beautiful Nick, beautiful....really beautiful.

I am just a tad green but it could not have gone to a better home, well done.

Regards D S D L

Beechwoods

07-06-2011, 18:57

Thanks Neil. I know I was a little green when you got your B77! This helped me get over it you might say ;)

Alex_UK

07-06-2011, 20:35

Lovely, Nick. Enjoy!

Beechwoods

07-06-2011, 21:32

P.S What's that, as well - a Tascam CDP?

:doh: Just thought - you're probably actually referring to the Tascam DA-20 MkII DAT machine (under the Toshiba XR-Z90 CDP and Uher 4400 Report Monitor portable reel to reel machine?) I'd forgotten about that! I only tend to use it for quick previews of DAT's I come across these days... I have a Sony SDT-9000 DAT drive connected to my Mac for serious DAT transfers... and the HD-P2 makes it obsolete when it comes to digital recording :hifive:

Rare Bird

07-06-2011, 22:13

That Techy is beautifil Nick..

Beechwoods

07-06-2011, 22:19

Thanks Andr'e. It really is a work of art. I swear it killed my back getting it upstairs though!

Spectral Morn

07-06-2011, 22:32

Thanks Neil. I know I was a little green when you got your B77! This helped me get over it you might say ;)

Happy to swap the B77 for that there Technics if you like ;) lol

Regards D S D L

Rare Bird

07-06-2011, 22:48

Nick: O dear no good me trying then, my backs broken already :eyebrows:

Neil :lolsign:

Techno Commander

08-06-2011, 07:26

Stunning machine. :)

Erik van Voorst

08-06-2011, 10:47

I once heard a beautiful track of Duncan Brown ("Take me to the wild places")
dominating the HIFI shop in a pleasant way !!!!!

When I looked around it was the Technics deck in a Demo ...oooohhhh this deck in full glory ..I was stunned by the looks and that sound quality ....never forgotten !!!

For me it was that particular day with a final push to ditch my top Sony cassette deck and went to buy a reel to reel. (an A77 which I still have;))

Beechwoods

08-06-2011, 18:31

I'm happy to be able to bring those memories flooding back Erik!

I hope your Revox is still getting some good use :)

chris@panteg

09-06-2011, 08:13

Congrats from me Nick , i think i know how much it means to you !

You could make some great live recordings of local bands with that , but i can imagine that's a bit impractical and not why you bought it.

WOStantonCS100

09-06-2011, 20:07

Nice one, Nick!

So the next step is the J Corder custom treatment, right? :eyebrows:

Beechwoods

10-06-2011, 05:55

So the next step is the J Corder custom treatment, right? :eyebrows:

JCorder, Bottlehead or EAR / Tim de Paravicini :eek: It would be a dream to upgrade the electronics with custom head amps and transport refinements. Clearly the RS1500 is a gift that can keep on giving!

MartinT

10-06-2011, 09:51

The Technics looks simply fab, Nick. Does it sound as good as it looks? Are you able to get blank tape easily enough?

Beechwoods

10-06-2011, 12:47

I think it does Martin!

You can get new tape if you know where to look. RMG and Zonal still have new tape stocks and you can still buy new tape on eBay. I think RMG are still manufacturing tape and it's good stuff too.

Ali Tait

10-06-2011, 15:26

That's a seriously nice machine you have there Nick. I want one!

WOStantonCS100

10-06-2011, 17:02

RMG, to my knowledge, is not only making tape; but, several different varieties. In 1/4" I believe that includes LPR35, SM900, SM911 and SM468. I've been using LPR35 (1 mil.) and it's great. My deck was calibrated for SM911, which probably would sound even better.

In the states, ATR makes it's "Master" series. It is also a fantastic tape; however, it costs a bit more.

Stefaan

12-06-2011, 23:18

What an absolutely stunning piece of glamourous equipment. Thanks for sharing.

Lodgesound

13-06-2011, 07:11

Very cool machine indeed Nick - I must get mine out of the flight case and dust it off.....

The story of how I got mine is quite weird - I was 17 years old and up at a shop in West London - saw a guy walk in to said shop with one - they offered him £15.00 for it - yes you did hear me right. So at huge personal risk (you do that when you're a kid) I offered the guy £50.00 and he took the offer - so that's how I came by the one that I still have - just ended up nearly ripping my arms off carrying it nearly 5 miles on trains and tubes to get it home.

Beechwoods

13-06-2011, 16:40

That's a cool story... and they do weigh a ton, nearly. You'd certainly need to be a youngster to get one five miles on the train! Worth it though.

What's your main analogue machine these days, or does the 'D' do it all for you?

Lodgesound

13-06-2011, 18:33

Hi Nick;

My main 2 analogue machines are an Otari MTR12 that used to belong to The Eurythmics and a Nagra T audio - both have Dolby SR.

I also use the D which gives an incredible sound as well though it tends to get used more for shows these days..

MartinT

13-06-2011, 18:41

an Otari MTR12 that used to belong to The Eurythmics

http://www.phuncity.com/Media/MTR-12%204%20track.jpg

:stalks:

Beechwoods

13-06-2011, 18:45

Just what I was thinking Martin! Nice one :hifives:

Lodgesound

13-06-2011, 19:03

....that's the fella......

Butuz

17-06-2011, 15:40

Wow awesome collection there.

Butuz

Beechwoods

17-06-2011, 16:20

Thanks Butuz!

macvisual

19-06-2011, 14:40

Reel to reel lush'ness!

wOOw

jazzpiano

15-10-2011, 17:35

Thank you for the greetings. Love your highly-personalized approach to hi-fi.
It's great when you can be involved w/out feeling the need to constantly upgrade. Reel-to-Reels have always had a high lust factor for me. Unfortunately, folks are trying to pair the JR 149 image w/ Rogers LS3/5as and I've seen the prices creep up (not that they don't deserve it). Have you explored the cross-over mods for the 149s?

Best,
Barry

Beechwoods

15-10-2011, 18:31

Hi Barry, and thanks for your comments! I definitely go my own way when it comes to my system, I like it and that's what counts! I have a real thing about tape and reel to reel in particular, which is driven more by my curiosity for how these things sound and work moreso than trying to find one single set of bits that work simply as a system... I always wanted a decent reel to reel machine when I was a kid, and seeing as I can't decide which, I've got a few!

I've not read about the 149 crossover mods - how do they work, and how do they alter the sound? I love my speakers, they punch well above their weight in my opinion.

synsei

15-10-2011, 19:35

That Techy is a thing of beauty Nick. I've always hankered after a reel to reel deck but they go for so much these days :eyebrows:

Reid Malenfant

15-10-2011, 19:48

That Techy is a thing of beauty Nick. I've always hankered after a reel to reel deck but they go for so much these days :eyebrows:
Then try finding decent tape & factor that in on top :eek:

If you want to try & recreate the RTR sound pick yourself up a decent quality hifi video recorder ;) You'll get CD quality recording & reproduction as long as it's in good condition/adjustment.

Fettling them is a pain in the arse, but once all is set up right the equivalent of nearly 2M per second (yes 2 meters per second!) of tape speed can give superlative performance ;)

E2A:- Which reminds me i must get a hifi video back in my rack as i have soooo much music on VHS tapes :)

Macca

16-10-2011, 08:52

If you want to try & recreate the RTR sound pick yourself up a decent quality hifi video recorder ;) You'll get CD quality recording & reproduction as long as it's in good condition/adjustment.

Fettling them is a pain in the arse, but once all is set up right the equivalent of nearly 2M per second (yes 2 meters per second!) of tape speed can give superlative performance ;)

E2A:- Which reminds me i must get a hifi video back in my rack as i have soooo much music on VHS tapes :)

Any chance of you posting some tips on this, Mark? I have a nice 6 head Philips sat around doing nothing - I bought it about 3 months before DVD hit the shelves :doh:

Ali Tait

16-10-2011, 09:12

Then try finding decent tape & factor that in on top :eek:

If you want to try & recreate the RTR sound pick yourself up a decent quality hifi video recorder ;) You'll get CD quality recording & reproduction as long as it's in good condition/adjustment.

Fettling them is a pain in the arse, but once all is set up right the equivalent of nearly 2M per second (yes 2 meters per second!) of tape speed can give superlative performance ;)

E2A:- Which reminds me i must get a hifi video back in my rack as i have soooo much music on VHS tapes :)

Aye, I used to have a top of the range Sony VCR that I used to use for music too, it sounded excellent, and made great recordings. Can't remember which model it was.

John

16-10-2011, 15:50

I hear this is a great way to get great recorded sounds Mark any tips around Machines etc I be greatful. Perhaps if you can start a new thread
Nick I really like what you done with your room must be sounding awesome

Reid Malenfant

16-10-2011, 17:04

Any chance of you posting some tips on this, Mark? I have a nice 6 head Philips sat around doing nothing - I bought it about 3 months before DVD hit the shelves :doh:
Ok, will do in the not too distant future ;)

Aye, I used to have a top of the range Sony VCR that I used to use for music too, it sounded excellent, and made great recordings. Can't remember which model it was.
I have used various, in fact i still have them all :doh: Akai x 1, JVC x 3, Panasonic x 1.

I hear this is a great way to get great recorded sounds Mark any tips around Machines etc I be greatful. Perhaps if you can start a new thread.
Sure thing John, as i mentioned to Martin i'll get something on the go shortly :cool:

synsei

16-10-2011, 17:18

Macca

16-10-2011, 18:02

There was a postgrad way back when I was at college (1980s) who had one of the early NICAM VCRs and he had all of his music on VHS, I always though it was a pretty neat idea.

Marco

16-10-2011, 18:09

Reid Malenfant

16-10-2011, 18:28

I used a Marantz six head VCR years back to record dance music mixes and they went down well at parties. I got a lot of comments from party goers about the quality of the sound amidst some stunned expressions that it issued from a VCR ;)
Indeed, i don't think virually anyone has much of an idea of the audio quality that can be obtained from a hifi VCR. The specs are up there alongside CD, over 90Db signal to noise & 20Hz - 20KHz bandwidth. The fact that you can also put eight hours of music on a single tape is not to be sniffed at...

There was a postgrad way back when I was at college (1980s) who had one of the early NICAM VCRs and he had all of his music on VHS, I always though it was a pretty neat idea.
Before stand alone CD recorders were generally available (i didn't have a PC until about 6 years ago) it was all i used from about 1990 ;)

Yay... Another triumph for old technology over new! ;)

Marco.
They do sound very good Marco & yes the storage capability & audio quality are way up there with the best reel to reels, except it's in a nice neat kind of cassette :eyebrows:

Anyway, i'm not going to thread crap on Nicks thread any more. What i'll do is drag one of my VCRs out & pull the lid & explain what goes on along with some pictures :eyebrows: I'll get something up in the analogue section within 3 or 4 days to get us going ;)

Lodgesound

16-10-2011, 18:33

Lodgesound

16-10-2011, 18:38

In terms of comparison against open reel machines available domestically yes in theory they had the potential to massively outstrip them however they were plagued with dropout problems (a slight FM dropout sounded like a massive splat or fart on the audio track) and the machines were often let down by woefully poor audio electronics which did affect their S/N ratio.

The Sony PCM encoders for home VCR's addressed all of the above issues by actually recording a PCM code as a monochrome vision signal thus using the tape transport of the VCR only as a carrier medium. These encoders were based on the Decca PCM machines of the early 1970's which used IVC video tape transports.

MartinT

16-10-2011, 18:55

If you want to try digital recording with a VCR, try to obtain a used Sony PCM-F1. Many commercial recordings were made with one and they sound pretty good. Lovely bit of kit, anyway.

http://www.palsite.com/newgif_bg/pcm-f1.jpg

Beechwoods

16-10-2011, 19:23

I have a Beta-HiFi which was used in conjunction with those to record Phil Collins' No Jacket Required, if I remember correctly.

It can record full-track stereo audio, non-digital though IIRC, it sounded fantastic versus regular Hi-Fi VHS.

Tracking error was a bastard with VHS though, you could hear the field switching as the tape wore over time, or after it had declined while in storage. And it wasn't easy keeping the heads aligned. And dropouts, as Stuart says, are not handled gracefully.

My machine was bought in 1984 though, and it still works, which is quite something. When it was new it a fantastic piece of kit.

Compared with analogue reel to reel the reel to reel is way more robust than VHS. Try playing a 30 year VHS recording back and compare it with a 30 year old reel. No contest!

Reid Malenfant

16-10-2011, 19:35

A very big problem with all HiFi VCR's was the companding network used to reduce noise (yes even at the relative head to tape speed they still produced it) and the "breathing" that it would introduce to quiet passages of audio which could sound like very poorly aligned DBX noise reduction.
Well seeing as Nick has joined the fray :eyebrows:

There is no companding network on hifi videos that used seperate record level controls, only on the ones which don't have any ;) The first one i purchased i made sure that it had record level controls precisely because of what you mention. Much like a cassette deck with no control it'll be all over the place :rolleyes:

I'm in total agreement about using video tapes in other machines though. Unless things are precisely aligned there will be potential problems that will effect the audio quality. The simple answer is to use it in the machine it was recorded on & keep that machine clean & aligned.

As for Nick & his stretching :eyebrows: Well much like a new cassette i always ran the blank tape through the machine a few times to take up the initial slack & make sure the whole thing was spooled correctly on the machine it'd be used on...

Yes you may get a bit of mistracking occasionally, but it's over pretty quickly & no worse than having a few clicks & pops on a record... & then you are back to CD quality again ;)

E2A:- Oh, & use decent tape as well, don't use cheap crap! BASF, TDK, JVC are all good... Memorex does what it says on the tin, rex it :lol:

jason

20-10-2011, 08:15

Very nice system, those rogers look great..

DSJR

20-10-2011, 08:20

Compared with analogue reel to reel the reel to reel is way more robust than VHS. Try playing a 30 year VHS recording back and compare it with a 30 year old reel. No contest!

Unless the tapes are those (certain Ampex?) which shed their oxide over time due to the adhesives breaking down. So many analogue masters from the 70's and 80's all but lost because of this. I know they can be played once after baking, but don't know if they can be ever baked and played again...

Lodgesound

20-10-2011, 13:41

Once baked I can confirm that if stored properly (ie. in bone dry conditions) that the tapes tend to play almost perfectly with virtually no shedding at all.

The best tapes available today are old stocks of BASF 911, AGFA PEM 468 and almost anything EMITAPE from the 1970's. The value of quarter inch tape stock in good condition is starting to go through the roof now.

RMG actually bought the entire BASF plant and moved it to Holland and actually make the same tape under their own banner. A 10.5 inch reel of RMG 911 retails at around 40 - 55 pounds.

Beechwoods

20-10-2011, 19:25

Yep, baked tapes do keep. And yep, Ampex tapes from the late 70's and early 80's are notorious for sticky shed. They are the only tapes that have done this though in my own personal experience. I have tapes from the late 60's that still sound great..., and despite much playing.

DSJR

20-10-2011, 20:55

I liked the BASF Pro tape too, but gave all my tapes away when I sold my last Revox some time ago now.

Lodgesound

20-10-2011, 22:49

I think a lot of people either forget or did'nt realise that open reel machines were lined up to suit a specific REEL and not just TYPE of tape when recordings were done - even on the same brand of tape the variation in settings for bias and eq were always quite surprising.

On studio machines all of the adjustments were easily accessible so rapid line up by an engineer was easily possible. Later generations of open reel machines actually calibrated themselves to a tape via a processor controlled sequence.

All proper recordings should be preceeded by 30 second sections of 1 KHz tone, 10 KHz tone and 100 Hz tone to enable level, azimuth and eq to be set on the replay machine along with the relevant Dolby signals if noise reduction is being used. This enables rapid and completely faithful calibration of the replay machine to the recording on the tape.