compromised hearing and best approach to speakers

[jtay]

I'm an occasional visitor to these forums but I've got a question which is bugging me and would be interested to hear suggestions.

I did a high frequency sweep test today and discovered that my high frequency hearing is very compromised. I can even link it, in my mind at least, to when it happened - a visit years ago to a club when the music was so loud and I was close enough to the dancefloor and speakers that I was left with tinnitus for a couple of weeks. My hearing has never seemed quite the same since then. Lesson learned too late.

The frequency test showed that I stopped hearing a frequency above about 13khz at best. And so frustrated was I that I tried to see if by turning the volume right up I could hear more - blew the bloody tweeters in my castle isis!! and could hear no more frequency range, just the damage done. As an aside, if anyone can help with getting these speakers repaired I'd appreciate help - Castle referred me to Quad to old Castle repair guy, but no joy there and no spare tweeters for me.

So, digression aside, it gets me to where I am now, wondering that for those like me, middle aged and with compromised hearing, if there's a particular approach to buying speakers that should be kept in mind, aside from the obvious of listen before you buy (ebay purchases don't allow this). I'm wondering whether there is more to consider than just accept the loss. Would different speaker sonics help to balance the sound better or otherwise make a positive difference? It could influence the way ahead.

As I say, I come and go on here, but will check back to see if anyone has thoughts/advice.

Thanks

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi there,
Not sure what to call you as your name's not on your post - would you mind doing a couple of things? Could you edit your profile so it shows your name and a rough location first of all.
Secondly, would you mind posting a new thread in the Welcome section, then we can all get to know you a bit better. Tell us a bit about yourself, your system (apart from your nadgered Castle Isis') and your taste in music.

It's a really good question & I sympathise with your plight as I'm currently suffering from a mono head! Get the housekeeping stuff sorted & then we'll take a look at your problem, eh?

Thanks a lot.

[Marco]

Hi mate,

Before we go any further, things have progressed since you joined in 2009.

We now require all members to supply their real first name (which should be added to their profile), along with an approximate geographical location. Also, all members should pop into the Welcome area and introduce themselves to the community by listing what system they use and saying what music they like.

This is done simply to provide more of a sense of community, and thus real people interacting with each other, rather than the bland anonymity of a 'bulletin board'.

I trust that you understand our reasons for this, so if you could do that, I'd be much obliged. Once done, your thread here can progress in the normal way :)

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

[Marco]

Ah, I see Chris has beaten me to it! :)

Marco.

[jtay]

Profile amended, and it's Chris :-)

I'm not a newcomer to this forum - more an infrequent flyer. I dip my toes in, then I'll be off for weeks/months. My days of obsession with hifi have faded - not necessarily a bad thing for me. So I drop by as things crop up.

Glad you think the question has merit - I've not seen it raised as such elsewhere.

Chris

[Ali Tait]

Frankly I wouldn't worry about it, there's very little if any musical information up at and above those frequencies. People lived for many years very happily with speakers that struggled to get that high.

[DSJR]

May be worth having your ear canals checked by your local Practice Nurse, just in case of blockage or infection..

The tweets for the Isis may have "Castle" front-plates, but did they make their own? I suspect not in all honesty. If the tweeters cannot be dismantled, the likes of Wilmslow Audio or Falcon Acoustics may be able to supply you with compatible spares which may spoil the cosmetic a little, but at least keep you going.

By the way, a blown tweeter indicates a clipping amp as much as anything else, as well as an overheated voice coil, so tread carefully :)

[jtay]

there's very little if any musical information up at and above those frequencies

Mmmm? How does that reconcile with use of super tweeters and higher resolution music (SACD) where higher frequencies are claimed to add to the sound. I've come across reviews (I'll never remember where exactly) which claimed that e.g supertweeters don't just add to the top end but 'reinforce' other frequencies. This sort of ties in with my curiosity that maybe a speaker can somehow compensate for listeners with compromised upper frequency hearing.

As you're implying, I think that the mid range is 'where it's at' with sound and it's interesting that people fixate on extreme highs and lows to the extent they do.

[jtay]

DSJR - funny you say about ear issues - I have had soreness on one side. Maybe trip to nurse called for.

Your tweeter comments are appreciated and I'll contact the companies mentioned. As for clipping, I know of clipping with distortion at higher volumes, but am I missing something in your advice to 'tread carefully'. I did admittedly, turn the volume right up to see if it delivered any sound (I know it sounds daft now). I don't normally go anywhere near that high on the volume. I use a T amp variant c.40watts per channel type fyi.

Chris

[John]

Generally the super tweeters eem to add more air, you tend to notice the difference when they gone
I went to over a 2000 HM gigs so my hearing is probarly fucked

[jtay]

I went to over a 2000 HM gigs so my hearing is probarly fucked

:lol:

John, even though you've got problems with higher frequencies, do you still notice improvements from a supertweeter?

Chris

[John]

yes but more if not their

[Lodgesound]

Hi Chris;

I'm not sure how old you are (you implied middle-age) but honestly if you are around 40 - 50 13 Khz is really quite good - some of the worlds top mastering engineers can't hear much above 10 Khz - it is a natural part of ageing. As has already been said there is'nt a great deal going on above 10k in most music anyway - if you don't believe this download a free spectrum analyser emulator and look at the response of a wave file extracted from your most dynamic sounding tune - you will be quite surprised at the result.

[lurcher]

As you're implying, I think that the mid range is 'where it's at' with sound and it's interesting that people fixate on extreme highs and lows to the extent they do.

Its easy to hear if a system has more highs or lows that another, dealers love to use that to differentiate between systems, but once you get past the HiFi-ness, the magic is in the middle.

[John]

Its easy to hear if a system has more highs or lows that another, dealers love to use that to differentiate between systems, but once you get past the HiFi-ness, the magic is in the middle.

+1

[Lodgesound]

Also remember that a proper hearing test should be conducted with headphones under tightly controlled conditions by an Audiologist as it is very very easy to cause hearing damage with sinusoidal tones at fixed frequencies.

The use of headphones avoids the colouring of the results by artifacts such as room nodes and anti-nodes which can greatly affect the accuracy of the results.

Try and resist the temptation to do these tests yourself as they can honestly be quite dangerous.

[jtay]

some of the worlds top mastering engineers can't hear much above 10 Khz - it is a natural part of ageing.

Sounds like I'm in good company then. Perhaps the nature of their work means they have even worse hearing than others outside the industry?! I shall follow your advice about frequency testing in future. Didn't provide me with much other than a damaged pair of speakers (and a little more wisdom)

Chris

[Alex_UK]

Maybe I shouldn't have started the "test your frequency response" thread then... :doh:

[Ali Tait]

Mmmm? How does that reconcile with use of super tweeters and higher resolution music (SACD) where higher frequencies are claimed to add to the sound. I've come across reviews (I'll never remember where exactly) which claimed that e.g supertweeters don't just add to the top end but 'reinforce' other frequencies. This sort of ties in with my curiosity that maybe a speaker can somehow compensate for listeners with compromised upper frequency hearing.

As you're implying, I think that the mid range is 'where it's at' with sound and it's interesting that people fixate on extreme highs and lows to the extent they do.

Yep, I don't disagree regarding supertweeters, and in fact have heard this for myself. Given the frequencies they operate at though, it's more likely to be harmonics rather than the fundamental notes that cause the difference, which may be why we can hear a difference. Try it for yourself and see what you think.

I'd agree with John's experiences, they seem to add more air and space, and you do indeed notice when they are removed.

[DSJR]

many so called "Super Tweeters" actually come in at 8KHz or so, so will be very audible. The early Tannoy one was tested as coming in sharply at 7 to 8KHz and rolling away at 27KHz, a very low figure and bettered by many modern standard examples.

Having an extra tweeter can assist or control the dispersion up top and this is possibly even more important perhaps?

[Stratmangler]

Supertweeters have quite a profound effect on the attack of bass instruments, so they have to be operating on the harmonics of the note fundamental.

[alfie2902]

It’s fairly common for people who are over 25 years of age to not be able to hear above 15kHz! Here's a little test

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/

[Stratmangler]

It’s fairly common for people who are over 25 years of age to not be able to hear above 15kHz! Here's a little test

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/

funnily enough there's a thread about it http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11622

[John]

Supertweeters have quite a profound effect on the attack of bass instruments, so they have to be operating on the harmonics of the note fundamental.

Thanks Chris I always wanted to understand what was happening here
:)

[dave2010]

Chris

I heard that these people in Wembley are good at fixing speakers - http://www.wembleyloudspeaker.com/

Re your hearing- do keys jingle, jangle or merely clunk?

Dave