Bantam Monoblocks

[electric beach]

The nice Postie man has delivered a new toy today. From the very nice man at Temple Audio.

Only just set up. Hard to write 'cos I'm drawn to listen. John made it a joy to part with my money, next day delivery. I think they are looking cute and classy. From the first notes I can hear something special flexing it's muscles and warming up. :eyebrows:

Gotta go......

[aquapiranha]

Excellent Steve! I assume you are still using the Sachiko's? You must let us know what you think, I am using a std. Bantam atm.

Steve

[Ali Tait]

You will like methinks.

[Peter Stockwell]

More to come from me on a similar subject. My Bantam Gold (power amp version) was shipped yesterday.

[electric beach]

Excellent Steve! I assume you are still using the Sachiko's? You must let us know what you think, I am using a std. Bantam atm.

Steve

Yeah, the Sachikos still reign supreme :eyebrows:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=65&pictureid=396

The drivers are only just starting to free up now. The Mini-T showed me why you found the Tripath technology such a match. My critic of the Mini-T was only for it's comparatively "light" presentation; something I heard consistently over a number of systems. The TNT review of the Bantam nailed it - a more mature sound was what I was looking for, the weight and solidity of my P/P valve amp with (most) of the transparency of the Mini-T.

I'm fighting not to mention the sound and combination with the Bantams yet as they deserve a day or two to settle.

[electric beach]

More to come from me on a similar subject. My Bantam Gold (power amp version) was shipped yesterday.

That's a good idea Peter, a stereoblock :lol:

I'm using an active tube pre with mine, as I did with the Mini-T.

I really didn't need the extra power of the monos but I doubted the inclusion of the volume control and I could hear the merit of two Mini-T amps driving a channel each rather than a single one.

I think the question has now gone beyond 'are these cheaper chip amps excellent performers in a second system?' (absolutely), to 'can the better/newer implimentations be a valid choice in a main system'? That's why I'm not judging the Bantams against the Mini-T in VFM terms, I'm just concerned with the potential sound quality within real world numbers. I certainly don't consider £320 to be excessive for the main amplification in a main system.

[Ali Tait]

Well I think they are more than good enough, if a decent PS is used, and a good valve pre.

[electric beach]

Well I think they are more than good enough, if a decent PS is used, and a good valve pre.

Would this be OK to use Ali? I have the 5A one. Would it power both monoblocks? The SMPS supplied each say Input 1.5A, Output 13.8V 3.5A

http://www.maplin.co.uk/13.8v-regula...ower-units-231

[Ali Tait]

Linky no worky?

[Gazjam]

Watching this thread VERY closely Steve, Im demo'ing a set of the mono's very soon, to be used with my Caiman as a pre.
Just waiting on someone getting back from his hols.. :)

Very interested in what you think of them and how you rate them in the overall scheme of things.

Nice listening room btw :)

[electric beach]

Linky no worky?

Sorry Ali, try this now. I bought it for the spec of the Mini-T but if it isn't right I can still change it, especially for a different model.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/13.8v-regulated-mains-power-units-231?ordercode=XM22Y

[electric beach]

Hi Gary

I saw that you'd ordered them. Will be a good comparison as you're running from the Touch also, which is quite new for me, and also you've compared to the Mini-T before with Ali.

[Ali Tait]

It'll power them ,but I'd say you are sailing a little close to the wind there, you really need 7A to power both. You are using the Sachikos though, which are very sensitive, so you won't be using many watts to drive them.

Having said that, you need to look at the specs of those power supplies, you'd need to buy the 10A version for it to supply 7A continuous, as the 5A version you have will only yield 3A continuous, not enough for even one mono at max demand. Does it have a thermal cutout?

Were it my choice, I'd go for the 10A version, just to be safe. You could probably use the one you have until the new one arrives though.

[electric beach]

It has short term overload protection. I'd like to try but I don't want to fry another one! :doh:

[Ali Tait]

I'm being my usual overcautious self Steve, it should be fine really, the Sachikos are so sensitive they'll probably never draw more than 5W from the amps.

[Peter Stockwell]

It'll power them ,but I'd say you are sailing a little close to the wind there, you really need 7A to power both. You are using the Sachikos though, which are very sensitive, so you won't be using many watts to drive them.

....

Were it my choice, I'd go for the 10A version, just to be safe. You could probably use the one you have until the new one arrives though.

Usual Disclaimer since I don't know Tchit from Tchinola, but John at Temple told me that the maximum draw on the Bantam Gold, it comes with a 15v/3A supply, was 1.25a. So I'm really surprised that the monoblocks current draw would be as high as 3 amps.

Best to ask John, no ?

[Ali Tait]

I just went with what Temple supply to power the monos with Peter, they would appear to overspec their supplies too, that being a sensible thing to do. Aside from the safety aspect, a PS that is working less hard will usually produce less ripple.

[Peter Stockwell]

I just went with what Temple supply to power the monos with Peter, they would appear to overspec their supplies too, that being a sensible thing to do. Aside from the safety aspect, a PS that is working less hard will usually produce less ripple.

I understand that logic, and that's how I started looking at a linear supply for the Gold. Turns out that 2 to 2.5 amps capacity would be fine if the maximum draw is 1.25amp. At least that's what the Electronics Engineer with whom I spoke, told me.

[Ali Tait]

Yes, sounds sensible.

[Peter Stockwell]

My Bantam Gold (Power amp version) is at the post office ...

[electric beach]

My Bantam Gold (Power amp version) is at the post office ...


:popcorn:



John has answered that he considers my CB supply to be perfectly OK to power both monoblocks, so I will try it next weekend (I'm working abroad this week).

[Ali Tait]

Good to know Steve.

Peter, let us know what you think.

[Peter Stockwell]

John has answered that he considers my CB supply to be perfectly OK to power both monoblocks, so I will try it next weekend (I'm working abroad this week).

There's only one output, so you connect in parallel ?

[electric beach]

There's only one output, so you connect in parallel ?


Should I not? I showed John the spec but he may not have noticed that aspect.

[Peter Stockwell]

Should I not? I showed John the spec but he may not have noticed that aspect.

I would have thought there was a slight danger to the PSU, if I can remember high skool physics well enough, parallelling the load will double the current draw.

If we assume that the maximum draw on the Monoblocks 1.5amps (the Gold is 1.25amps), then connecting two makes it 3amps. Which would be tough, I think, for the 3amp version. Should be ok for a 5amp version.

Somebody who's an EE will be along soon to put me right, if necessary.

Or buy two and be on the safe side ?

[Ali Tait]

As I said earlier, you need to look at the specs on the Maplin site, and see what each supply will give under continuous load. Also, yes, if there is only one output, it would be better to buy two, or at least one that can supply the required amperage continuously.

[Peter Stockwell]

I've had the Bantam Gold Power amp version in my system for a few days, but I've only been able to listen to music for a couple of hours in that time. The BG replaces an Avondale S100, considered by many to be superior to a NAP250 and rivalling a NAP300. The S100 has a more even handed touch than a NAP200, in any case, and opens a wider window to the music. Mine cost me about £1400. The BG costs £180.

The BG is not so open into the soundstage as the S100, I feel like there's some haze, I'm wondering if that is the SMPS that I'm hearing. On the other hand, the very moment I fired it up to listen to music I was struck by its direct way of communicating, and how, for instance, with vocals, it makes John Martyn understandable (ok, maybe no amp can do that ;) ). In fact I was in awe and laughing, because the amp is so tiny (125 x 130 x 40 mm, more or less).

Listened last night to Tom Jobim sings Vinicius (famous brazilian singer/composer singing the songs of another famous brazilian singer/composer), couldn't be sure if I had the same clarity as the S100.

Temple Audio, maker of the Bantam Gold, say that 3 days of 24 hours running, music or not, is required to make the BG come on song. It is a fine wee amp, I'm looking forward to trying it with a linear supply (I have one on order). It probably will not play at head banging levels, but I don't need that in my 24 sq metre appartment in a block of flats.

It's close enough to the S100 to make me consider selling the S100, although I haven't decided one way or another yet.

Today, if I was starting from scratch, I wouldn't bother paying more than the BG (ok, the Monoblocks are tempting).

More to come.

[John]

please keep us updated
I must admit I am bit worried about it not playing at headbanging levels that would be quite important for me if I was to go down the active route. What the sensitivity of your speakers

[Ali Tait]

I don't think you'll have a problem John, my OB's are about 95dB and go as loud as I could wish. That's with the Golds, which are a max of 25w/ch. The monos do 40 I believe.

[Peter Stockwell]

John,

They go loud enough for me, here's the data sheet from the website :

http://en.audium.com/produktmatrix.php

Sensitivity claimed as 90dB.


I just can't imagine the BG power amp (25w per channel into 4 ohms, maxi) being able to sustain long periods of very high level listening, I don't listen "loud" any more. It's not whisper quite, but the windows don't vibrate and the walls don't shake.

OTOH if you using high effeciency, say 94dB or better speakers then you'll be alright. One thing I forget to add, I'm not aware of any hiss when no music is playing, so for very high effeciency speakers this would be a great choice.

[John]

Thanks mine is similar db to Ali so sounds like no issues

[Ali Tait]

Yes indeed, that's another good thing with these amps- they are completely silent, unlike some Tripath amps I've heard.

[Peter Stockwell]

My preamp is essentially a tentlabs stepped volume control, with an active buffer on the backside (to the power amp). It's very transparent, maybe not the best there is in the world, but certainly better than a Naim 282 with a DualTeddyCapIII.

It's made by Colin at Chevron Audio, there used to be a vague reference to it on his website, but I can't find it anymore. Costs from £500, depending on options.

[roob]

Are these amps really that good to compete with the likes of the S100?There are plenty of stories littering the hifi world of these "giant killers" that are flavour of the month then six months later they are filling the classifieds.
Anyone remember the Shek Dac?

[Peter Stockwell]

Are these amps really that good to compete with the likes of the S100?

The BG is a nice little amp, in absolute terms with its SMPS I think it doesn't have such a quiet background to music as the S100. It does seem to do some things better in my context, and I don't miss the S100 when listening to music, at least not yet.

I listen to Jazz and small scale music mostly. If you are big orchestra and infra bass fan, I'm not sure it would fit the bill.

But when you consider what you get for less than £200, it makes you wonder where value lies.

[John]

Quite a few of the guys really like them
I only heard the mini t amp and just not enough welly even with 95db speakers for me but great with acoustic music and some rock and blues but put on anything that demanded more scale and you quickly heard it limits The Bantam gold and mono should overcome this. I guess a lot will come down to the sensitivity of the speaker. So far you do not see many being passed on ebay

[Ali Tait]

A good linear supply really improves these amps, and you can run them at a higher voltage for more power.

[Peter Stockwell]

A good linear supply really improves these amps

Can you qualify that ?

[Ali Tait]

From memory, a cleaner and deeper bass, and a more open mid and top. Blacker background too. All round improvement really Peter.

[electric beach]

Guys, these are definately interim impressions but they are staying pretty constant:

1. The Maplins CB linear bench supply worked without a problem but I couldn't live with it. Everything tightened up but the lovely textured and full bass that really drives the music along was completely lost. Along with the valve-like presentation. Kind of left me cold and uninvolved.

2. I agree about the transparency, although I've been spoilt with the Mini-T. I feel like I'm straining to hear into the mix and straining to hear the detail of the musician's phrasing.

3. This results in wanting to turn the volume up, which in turn is changing the wonderful relaxed yet punchy presentation into something quite shouty that I want to turn down. Frustrating.

4. My Fostex drivers are about 95db. On the 'normal' setting the amps are almost silent but not seeming particularly powerful or taking charge of proceedings. If I increase the gain setting then they hum quite a bit (can be heard 10 feet away), sound a little more dynamic and forceful, but I'm back to the original issue that I had with my P/P valve amp.
It's not my set up - the Mini-T was deathly silent at any volume.

5. I still think that everything written in the TNT review holds true. It is however, as always, about system matching. They sound to me a real class act but I'm struggling to set them free. They do have a mature sound, a bit like going from stand mounts to floor standers and I'm tempted to say they sound quite British, in a Creek amp kind of way.

I need another weekend of Hi-Fiddling to see if I can improve the synergy and balance in my system - not necessarily a task that others may find necessary within a different environment.

L8ers....

[Reid Malenfant]

<snip> 3. This results in wanting to turn the volume up, which in turn is changing the wonderful relaxed yet punchy presentation into something quite shouty that I want to turn down. Frustrating.
Unfortunately this is the nature of class T amplifiers ;) At low volume settings the output stage is being switched at frequencies approaching 1.5Mhz which results in super linearity & fabulous sound. However as the volume goes up there is a point where the output stage switching frequency is lowered to more normal class D switching frequencies of about 300KHz.

The reason for this is simply to give you the best of both worlds, finesse at low volume but greater efficiency at high volume. The output stage is happy doing silly frequencies at low power but at high power there would be too much power loss due to switching taking a finite time.

It's the nature of the beast :cool:

[Ali Tait]

I've always said they need efficient speakers to sound their best.

[electric beach]

Unfortunately this is the nature of class T amplifiers ;)

I don't doubt your technical assessment but I can only speak from experience. Valerie and I both noticed this aspect with the Bantams because with the Mini-T it was striking that we were playing at silly volumes yet quite happily chatting to each other. I've never achieved that with any amp technology before.

[WAD62]

I don't doubt your technical assessment but I can only speak from experience. Valerie and I both noticed this aspect with the Bantams because with the Mini-T it was striking that we were playing at silly volumes yet quite happily chatting to each other. I've never achieved that with any amp technology before.

Are you referring to the Bantam Classic, or the Gold?

If it's the classic then it's set at a +3 gain, in order to get some more volume, as it's only 15wpc.

I have a classic and a mini-t (20 wpc), and the classic does tail off in quality as one approaches max volume, certainly in comparison with the mini-t.

The Gold is a different beast again...:)

[electric beach]

Bantam Gold Monoblocks Will.

I thinK that one issue can be that we all talk in absolute terms when in fact we judge in the context of different system combinations, near or far field, different volumes, etc, etc, etc.

I use a sub and also drive that from the amp. I have 95db horns. I listen at the volume that connects with and fills the room. I sit some 10 feet from the speakers. If I isten near field then my judgement and comments are quite different.

I don't believe I am pushing these amps hard though.

[Peter Stockwell]

... in wanting to turn the volume up, which in turn is changing the wonderful relaxed yet punchy presentation into something quite shouty that I want to turn down. Frustrating.

Not hearing that, but I am hearing something I don't like with respect to the Avondale S100. The BG does present detail in a believeable way, but there's a kind of "fuzzy" background, it's really hard to describe iin analogical terms.

I don't hear this "fuzz" with the S100. On the other hand I hear a lighter, more textured, bass from the BG, which suits my room better, than the bass weight of the S100.

The BG is great with the TV though, no worries at all.

It'll be interesting to see what the Linear supply brings, probably have it next week.

[WAD62]

Bantam Gold Monoblocks Will.


...:doh: I suppose there's a bit of a clue in the thread title...

[Peter Stockwell]

...:doh: I suppose there's a bit of a clue in the thread title...

Except I've spammed it with Bantam Gold Poweramp version, which is Stereo.

[electric beach]

But we're still talking about the same chip and probably house sound. Implimentation is a little different though.

[Peter Stockwell]

From what I understand the Monoblocks use 4 amp modules, like the gold, but in mono.

[Ali Tait]

Yes, I think the monos are a bridged stereo amp.

[Peter Stockwell]

Yes, I think the monos are a bridged stereo amp.

I wonder how they do that because, for theGold each channel is essentially a bridged amplifier.


However All Temple Audio Amplifiers have Bridged outputs as standard and probably always will.

The Bantam Gold is comprised of 4 single ended amplifiers which are set up in 2 pairs.
When you connect the speakers to the back of the amp in a normal way it sets up a bridged configuration.

Its not like a class AB amplifier where different components are responsible for amplifying different parts of the signal.
In this design you have two identical amplifiers per channel, connected to either side of the speaker.
One pulls its speaker terminal high while the other pulls its terminal low.

From an exchange I had with John Clayton of Temple Audio

[Ali Tait]

I could easily be wrong Peter, I thought I'd read somewhere that the monos were bridged and that was how they got the higher power output using the same chip as the integrated.

[Ali Tait]

From their website-

Introducing the Temple Audio Monoblock.
The Monoblock is built on the same speaker output stage as the Bantam Gold.
But we have combined the outputs internally to produce a single, ultra high quality mono output.



Advantages of the Monoblock
The monoblock configuration offers a number of advantages besides the increased power.
A single speaker load is shared between two channels. Which results in less distortion.
Output impedance is reduced significantly, which further improves the damping factor, providing the most accurate reproduction of the recorded track.
Dual mono configuration also eliminates crosstalk and allows more flexibility in how you arrange your system.




Does that mean bridged? Dunno.

[Peter Stockwell]

The Monoblock is built on the same speaker output stage as the Bantam Gold.
But we have combined the outputs internally to produce a single, ultra high quality mono output.

Does that mean bridged? Dunno.

I think it does, but then I can't remember hardly anything about amplifiers, but what I was getting at that it looks like they manage to bridge four amp modules for the monos, just two for the Gold. The monos look like they halve the distortion, I wonder how they do that ?

[Ali Tait]

Paralled output? I would think that would make them less able to drive low impedance loads though.

[Peter Stockwell]

...hearing something I don't like with respect to the Avondale S100. The BG does present detail in a believeable way, but there's a kind of "fuzzy" background, it's really hard to describe iin analogical terms.

I don't hear this "fuzz" with the S100. On the other hand I hear a lighter, more textured, bass from the BG, which suits my room better, than the bass weight of the S100.

Really enjoyed listening to the BG last night, didn't hear the fuzz ... it must be my brain burning in!

Still can't bring myself to put the S100 back in, this weekend I'm going to a system rebuild. I do this anyway every couple of months, and I'm going to take the avondale off the rack, it's going to look wierd with the BG in it's place!!
:eek:

[aquapiranha]

I am really glad that people are seeing how good new, cheap technology can sound. I have been a fan of Tripath for years, beginning when I had a Trends TA10.1, and have tried a few including the (different tripath) Sure electronics 2050 and now I am using another Tripath (Bantam) I would love to try the gold, but the monoblocks look brilliant too. Maybe when I sort out some new speakers in the future I will give them a go. In the meantime I will have to be content with being jealous of those messing about with them!! :)

[Ali Tait]

Yes, agreed, I've been mucking about with them for a while too, and the SPPV is amazing. I do rate the Golds above any Tripath amp I've heard though.

[Reid Malenfant]

I can see what they have done :) Effectively they are running two channels in parallel & then bridging that. The parallel amps will allow a lower impedance load to be driven, but if standard impedance is used then distortion will actually lower. Damping factor would increase into a standard load as they mention.

They'd have to keep the DC offset of each amp pretty miniscule & the gain of each amp very accurate so they run happily in parallel, but it could be done ;)

[Peter Stockwell]

They'd have to keep the DC offset of each amp pretty miniscule & the gain of each amp very accurate so they run happily in parallel, but it could be done ;)

Would that mean very carefully selecting the amp chips for each module, or it something that could be adjusted ?

[Reid Malenfant]

Would that mean very carefully selecting the amp chips for each module, or it something that could be adjusted ?
Well i happen to have a couple of class D amplifier kits that i built not too long ago. The interesting thing about them was the vanishingly low DC offset on the output, both of them were just about the same at the end of the day.

I can't remember precisely what it was but each had a DC offset of less than 0.25mV or if you like 0.00025V which is practically unheard of :eyebrows:

I'd be quite happy to parallel them up just as long as the AC gain is as accurate & with no resistors on the output to current match them into a load (if i do use resistors i have a bunch of R05 or 50miili ohm 25W resistors i can use). I'm actually probably purchasing a couple more of these things as i plan to make a 1KW mains regenerator & i'll do precisely what these people have done except i'll be driving a transformer to step the voltage up to 240V AC @ 50Hz :eyebrows:

If these amps you mention are as close as these kit amps then they'll need no adjustment, besides which there is nowhere to adjust it on these kits & i doubt there is on the bought version you are talking about.

[electric beach]

I am really glad that people are seeing how good new, cheap technology can sound. I have been a fan of Tripath for years, beginning when I had a Trends TA10.1, and have tried a few including the (different tripath) Sure electronics 2050 and now I am using another Tripath (Bantam) I would love to try the gold, but the monoblocks look brilliant too. Maybe when I sort out some new speakers in the future I will give them a go. In the meantime I will have to be content with being jealous of those messing about with them!! :)

Steve, I wouldn't be seeing their potential if it weren't for the Sachiko speakers from you. They are really singing now, they are awesome and I'm forever in debt to you for the introduction to horns, high efficiency single drivers and the pairing with low powered amps.

[electric beach]

I can see what they have done :) Effectively they are running two channels in parallel & then bridging that. The parallel amps will allow a lower impedance load to be driven, but if standard impedance is used then distortion will actually lower. Damping factor would increase into a standard load as they mention.

They'd have to keep the DC offset of each amp pretty miniscule & the gain of each amp very accurate so they run happily in parallel, but it could be done ;)

Mark, would any of this explain the kind of restrained effect that I seem to be experiencing with 95db single driver horns? The single Mini-T amp seemed to fly free in comparison and despite any presentation shortcomings, this certainly felt 'matched'.

[Reid Malenfant]

Steve, are these things the same manufacturer? Are they using the same IC?

Sorry chap, i'm not that into these things so i don't know the different models etc :scratch:

[electric beach]

No, they are different manufacturers and more importantly different chips. The Mini-T is a Tripath 2020 and the Bantam is a UK one. I wondered if the driver damping and impedence matching could be key.

[Reid Malenfant]

It'll likely be a combination of factors then ;) Where do i start?

Output filter impedance & DC resistance. Available negative feedback. Where the feedback is taken from, pre or post output filter. Input capacitance of the IC output Mosfets & current to charge & discharge the gate capacitance. Overall chip architecture. Heatsinking & how hot the chip runs. PCB layout. Quality of components. Power supply impedance. Any input filtering. Input impedance. Loads more besides....

You beginning to get the picture? :lol:

[Gazjam]

Getting near to purchase time...

I'll be comparing the Bantam mono's/fully tricked out Caiman as Pre against the new Rega Brio-R when its available at my Glasgow stockist.

Let y'all know how I get on...

[aquapiranha]

Getting near to purchase time...

I'll be comparing the Bantam mono's/fully tricked out Caiman as Pre against the new Rega Brio-R when its available at my Glasgow stockist.

Let y'all know how I get on...

I will be very interested to see your findings, thanks.

[Peter Stockwell]

Don't rule out a Power amp version of the Bantam Gold. I'm using mine exclusively now, and it sounds mighty fine. Goes loud enough for me, but wouldn't want to claim that it will shake walls. Loads of transparancy and only £180! I prefer it on the low gain setting, which is fine with a source like a CD player or Dac putting out 2V.

According to Colin at Chevron the Paradox dac is 8dB lower than 2V, so what's that, something like 400mV?, can't quite remember the rules about that, there's not enough gain in my preamp to compensate to go loud, but the preamp is essentially passive.

[wee tee cee]

Took delivery of a pair of monoblocks yesterday.Gave them a good listen last night.I ended up on the low level output with the display on the blue gain setting,it equates to 25db.Must admit sraight out the wrapper they sound fantastic.I had been using a standard bantum,which the only criticism I would level at is that when really pushed it lacked oomph.....
My son described the monos as a bantum on steroids....It has retained all the lovely 3d soundstage and detail/warmth but with a whole lot more grunt.
Early days yet but on first impressions Im delighted,looking forward to gettting them fully burnt in which John Clayton says takes a couple of days left switched on.
Im using the laptop as a pre-amp/volume control.
Just need to get some red wine ingested to really hear it sing......

[wee tee cee]

They seem to be coming on song...They have went through some different phases.I hate sibilance in my set up and had a couple of bouts were they were annoying me,trying different cables to tune it out.
The standard bantum has been re-installed a couple of times but what im now hearing has left it behind.The lovely valve soundstage is intact,with masses more attack and grunt.
Its sounding like I hoped it would,valve enjoyability mixed with SS grunt...

[aquapiranha]

Great news Tony, i am always glad to hear about 'budget' components that hit the mark. (the reason I said budget in quotes is because I see it as normally priced, against some of the ridiculously overpriced stuff available)

[wee tee cee]

I cant leave things alone....saw the old bantum sitting theyre unloved,well....
I have utilised the bantum to drive the tweeters and the mono blocks to drive the mid/bass.Took a bit of faffing about with gain settings to get it sounding balanced but it sounds bloody good to my ears.Does make me wonder how good 4 monos would sound.

[Ali Tait]

Yes, me too. Keep thinking of trying the monos. I'd need four though.

[Peter Stockwell]

....saw the old bantum sitting theyre unloved,well....
I have utilised the bantum to drive the tweeters and the mono blocks to drive the mid/bass.

Took a bit of faffing about with gain settings to get it sounding balanced but it sounds bloody good to my ears.Does make me wonder how good 4 monos would sound.

Before getting 4 monoblocks, you might consider an "overkill" power supply. I'm using my Bantam Gold (Power amp version) with a linear ps that's at least 3 times as big and cost a touch more! But the combo BG + PSU at c. £400 has a big solid sound that I haven't had in my system before, with great transparency and all the grunt I need.

[wee tee cee]

Ive got a maplins PSU on the bantum and it made a smashin upgrade.Is theyre a cost effective PSU for the monos,they have a strange 18.3v rating.I had to blag my sons speaker cable last night to get it bi-wired so at present its a bit of a lash up.
Just out of interest whats the consensus on running a long interconnect and placing the amp at the back of the speaker with a short speaker run OR is it better to have a short interconnect with long speaker cable?

[John]

Before getting 4 monoblocks, you might consider an "overkill" power supply. I'm using my Bantam Gold (Power amp version) with a linear ps that's at least 3 times as big and cost a touch more! But the combo BG + PSU at c. £400 has a big solid sound that I haven't had in my system before, with great transparency and all the grunt I need.

Do you have a link

[Peter Stockwell]

Do you have a link

http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/-dc2-dc-power-supply

[Ali Tait]

Do you have a pic of the inside Peter?

[Peter Stockwell]

Not yet, won't be opening for a while, but plan to shortly.

[Ali Tait]

Ok thanks, I'd be interested in a look when you do open it.

[wee tee cee]

Must admit,the mono blocks are really starting to sound quite fantastic.I think I will take the plunge and purchase another pair to bi-amp properly.Pound for pound they are something really special.

[aquapiranha]

Great news Tony. Sounds like they would be ideal for going active with a miniDSP! :)

[Ali Tait]

Aye, will do the same at some point for the OB's. You're still welcome for a listen anytime Tony.

[wee tee cee]

Ali,
looking forward to hearing them.Pardon my ignorance but whats a mini dsp and when you say active,what does that intail.

[aquapiranha]

Ali,
looking forward to hearing them.Pardon my ignorance but whats a mini dsp and when you say active,what does that intail.


The miniDSP is one brand of active crossover and works like this..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Active_loudspeaker.svg

http://www.minidsp.com/onlinestore/detail/13-audio-plug-ins/flypage/59-2way-advanced?sef=hcfp

[Ali Tait]

Well in my system I am using two golds to provide four channels. These go via a Behringer DCX2496 active crossover, a hugely versatile bit of kit which can be had secondhand on the bay for around 150 quid. One amp drives L & R Visaton B200 full range drivers, which are crossed over at 200hz to a pair of Eminence Alpha 15 inch bass drivers on each channel connected in parallel. These are driven L & R from the second gold amp.

[Ali Tait]

The 200hz crossover point was chosen on the advice of a friend who knows a great deal about speaker design, and keeps the respective drivers operating in their most linear regions, therefore getting the least cone breakup and distortion. It's also a fourth order crossover, so a very steep rolloff at the crossover point, again at my friend's suggestion. The Behringer will do up to six drivers, so I could add a supertweeter if I wished, but since fitting phase plugs to the B200's, I really don't feel the need. I can show you how it all works when you come over.

[Ali Tait]

Forgot to add, the Behringer also has a built in dac.

[wee tee cee]

Heavens above,I was going to say this is not rocket science.....but its no far off.
Ali,
Think I might have to bring a note book with me to try and get my head round things.
Steve,
Must admit it seems a bit beyond my technical abilities,I learned to solder by watching you tube videos....

[Ali Tait]

It's harder to explain than it is in reality. If you can connect up a passive hifi system, you can connect up an active one.

[aquapiranha]

Tony, as Ali says it really is not any harder than connecting up a passive sysem. The differnce is that the signal is split into high and low components at line level, before it is amplified, whereas in a passive system the signal is amplified and then split inside the speaker by a passive crossover. this means of course for a 2 way system you will need an extra stereo amp and of course the xover itself but honestly it might look hard but it isn't. :)

[electric beach]

Well, with some reluctance I've returned the Monoblocks; looked good on paper and in person, but just some lack of affinity with either my preamp or speakers. I just couldn't get the sound to fly free, it remained constrained and locked down, regardless of any system changes I made. I could hear the sound of the amp above the sound of the recording - the same reason I moved from the Trivista21 dac.

Many thanks to John at Temple Audio for his assistance, the trial and his understanding.
I would say that despite not delivering what I'm looking for in my system, this chip and design is very mature sounding, classy and refined. Bass is something special.

Back to the Mini-T marvel for me :eyebrows: With large horn speakers, augmented with a sub and a vintage sounding preamp, there are still some qualities missing but there are also some elements that are so right - and not ones that are particularly easy to achieve.

Onwards and upwards. Well, probably more like off on a sideways tangent if my history in this sport is any judgement...

[Ali Tait]

Daft as it sounds, it may be that there was just too much power for the Sachikos. Perhaps try a Gold instead?

[wee tee cee]

Iam currently running two mono blocks and a standard bantum.I have tried all manner of configurations and have found the mono blocks to be very revealing.The standard bantum went back in for a wee while as one of the mono blocks went doo-lalley....the bantum has some lovely qualities,very valve like and listenable but just lacks the grunt I need.
I have settled on the mono blocks running the treble units with my tellurium black and the bantum running the mid and bass unit with cheap van damme cable.I have ordered some tellurium blue for the bantum to see how it does with better cable.
I am undecided whether to buy a gold or gold mono block or whether to hold out and buy another pair of monos.To my ears the lack of distortion with the monos is fantastic but comes at the price of being very revealing with recordings and ancillaries.I hope the cable will give me a more even playing field and let me decide what path to take.
I am really enjoying playing about with the flexibilty the multiple amp approach gives.Once im settled with amplification and cables I can start on speakers.

[electric beach]

Once im settled with amplification and cables I can start on speakers.

Careful Tony; the relationship between the amp and speakers is fundamental, so choosing an amp in isolation seems impossible to me :scratch:

[wee tee cee]

Careful Tony; the relationship between the amp and speakers is fundamental, so choosing an amp in isolation seems impossible to me :scratch:

Steve,
Im going to go the DIY route and build some open baffles,there seems to be quite a bit of scope for tuning them to suit your ears and room/equipment.In saying that there's plenty of scope for making a complete pigs ear of it.
Regards Tony.

[stu.dio]

Hi - am new here - basically joined as I have a pair of these and need some advice from those who bought bespoke PSUs.
I got a pair on a whim, I have very little background with digital amps, I come from valve land (Arion Adonis, World Audio EL34 kit and last one a Bill Beard BB100a beast)

Firstly a little background - I took the dive into class t/d when I read about NuForce and how energy efficient they where (The BB100a albeit a totally lovely amp -it did make the lights dim during its startup cycle) and found a steal on ebay. 2yrs later - my NuForce 9 v2se's just up and died (again) (some reoccurring issue with a particular batch of DC-DC converters) and had to send them off for repair. I had been driving the NuForces with an Audio Aero Capitole 24/192 (has internal valve output pre) Nordost Heimdall bi cable into some heavily modded ProAc Studio 200s - I had finally thought I'm happy here.

Well I was amazed. Adding the BAs really gave a special magic. There was immediacy, emotion, soundstage and a very large smile. Then the Audio Aero had a startup issue - that went off to the menders - and I reinstated an old Wadia 12 Dac that fed directly into the BAs. The Wadia, fed from my mac pro's digital out and volume/selection with iTunes - not bad, really not bad at all - lost a bit of balance but immediacy was amazing, and the bass! - how powerful?! - but there was something happening in the mids that didn't sound right (recessed into the background) and it started becoming over critical (probably due to the direct connection with DAC) - good recordings were arresting - but bad ones - you had to reach for the stop button quick to prevent your ears bleeding.

Read on the internet a bit more - clearly I was missing the valve output stage (and of course the superior AA dec) - still waiting on the AA to return, I had the opportunity to get a valve pre on the cheap (a greek model - Tsakiridis Alexander) some of the magic has returned, the odd drop in mids is fleshed out, BUT and this is a tricky BUT - now the bass has gone a tad "flabby"? on the majority of music apart from a few really well recorded lossless files. I have added an Audio Note stepped attenuator (replacing the Alps blue motorized in the pre) that has improved on the sound somewhat, focus of the soundstage, tad more clarity in bass and overall spectrum (possibly a little too much in the treble on poor recordings) - but I can't help feel the amps aren't singing yet (like they did with the AA) So.. until it comes back...the PSU route

Does anyone have opinions or recommendations? I have tried batteries (albeit my black and decker drill's 12v 1.2ah) very comical but very nice (FYI they lasted an impressive 24hrs continuous med-loud play) - not really that much different from the stock supply though. I have seen on the internet a german owner has them running on a pair of KingREX SLAPs - they look great - BUT is it really SO much different with a quality PSU? does it need to be reg or unreg, linear, switching... ???:mental:

Fidelity Audio do some that range from £75 - £329 - but I get the feeling to hear a significant positive difference you need to cough up the money.Which in a sense goes against the philosophy of the BAs. I mean the amps the BAs have replaced cost approx £1200 each - and I'm not missing them at all.
As it is quite tricky arranging a home trials here in Greece - any advice would be greatly appreciated - Is it worth it? or just hype? I'd hate to be a sucker for the hype. 329x2 isn't small change.

PS has anyone tried replacing the x2 2200uf caps in the BAs? if it ain't broke don't fix it - I know, I know... just curious - but coming from a valve background I can't help but think what would it sound like with a better cap. like a Mundorf 2200uF 63Vdc MLytic. probably just hype- and of course it will sound different...

[Gazjam]

Sean Jacobs at Custom HiFi Cables Ltd can do you one of his DC2 linear supplies at the correct voltage for the Bantam Monos for about £270.

http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/-dc2-dc-power-supply.
The customer testemonial is from someone who fitted the psu to his bantam monoblocks I think?
It would have two dc out cables, one for each mono amp I think.

30 day guarantee...try before you buy :)

[stu.dio]

Yes I saw this PSU earlier on in the link - have you/anyone taken the leap with it? Are you using the Caiman/Linear psu for the Squeezebox or Bantams?

I have an Induction PSU by Aloia kicking about - but it outputs various vdc two 31v one 5v and another 25v (I tried temporarily the 25v feeding one of the BGs and it sounded awful - pulled the plug immediately- sweated for a while - put the stock psu back on and all was fine.) Ive been thinking to get a DC-DC convertor to drop down the current to 18v but have been told they are quite "noisy" - I don't know enough about electronics to figure out how else to do it - I may make one of the online kit chip amps that are rated at 30v for another system. - anyway this is side tracking, sorry.

[lordmortlock]

Fascinated to read your post re the AA and 'blocks Stuart - bizarrely it's exactly the combo I plumped for only yesterday for my totem forests. Glad to hear it looks like it might be money well spent.

Hear what you're saying re the price of a quality psu though. Part of the feel good factor Is the price. Unlike the Capitole.

[Ali Tait]

I'm using the MCRU supply on my SB. Well worth it IMHO. I'd say this supply could be used for the Bantams also.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Yes I saw this PSU earlier on in the link .......

Stuart, you have a message on your profile page (http://theartofsound.net/forum/member.php?u=6740). I'd be grateful if you'd read it & comply with my request.
Thanks

[lordmortlock]

I'm using the MCRU supply on my SB. Well worth it IMHO. I'd say this supply could be used for the Bantams also.

I'm sure it'd power them but the spec of the bundled switching psu is 18v so I'd be keen to replicate that. Not many off the peg options out there. Are people really hearing a big difference with a linear supply?

[lordmortlock]

Daft as it sounds, it may be that there was just too much power for the Sachikos. Perhaps try a Gold instead?

Not daft at all - I had Cain and Cains super abbeys and they HATED my ion obelisk, rated at 30wpc iirc. Much more at home with the 10wpc output of an AN oto.

[Ali Tait]

I'm sure it'd power them but the spec of the bundled switching psu is 18v so I'd be keen to replicate that. Not many off the peg options out there. Are people really hearing a big difference with a linear supply?

I believe the voltage is adjustable in these power supplies, so can be set for a range of devices.

Are they worth it? Yes, definately. An immediate and obvious improvement was heard over the stock Touch supply. I run a pair of Bantam Golds, which I run from a linear supply I liberated from work, and that again was an obvious improvement.

At the price of the MCRU compared to similar units elsewhere, it's a no brainer IMHO.

[lordmortlock]

Thanks Ali, thats good feedback. I'll have to look into it.

[Ali Tait]

Welcome, glad to help.

[stu.dio]

Fascinated to read your post re the AA and 'blocks Stuart - bizarrely it's exactly the combo I plumped for only yesterday for my totem forests. Glad to hear it looks like it might be money well spent.

Hear what you're saying re the price of a quality psu though. Part of the feel good factor Is the price. Unlike the Capitole.

Yes - the AA was the most I have ever paid in hifi terms(and it was s/hand)- it was quite nervy at the start (and something I had to keep well hidden for weeks for fear of death)- the BGs on the other hand just make me smile a lot and they're so small she'll never see them.

You should be in for a treat. (I've found the XLR output from AA with some home made cables XLR-RCA into the BAs lowest gain worked best for me)

[stu.dio]

I'm using the MCRU supply on my SB. Well worth it IMHO. I'd say this supply could be used for the Bantams also.

If I don't go out every Thurs/Fri for a month then I can "legally" afford the DC2 you mentioned before... hmmm I can sneak tinies into the studio those nights

[Ali Tait]

:lol:

[stu.dio]

Ok - I have a PSU now - albeit made up from what I had to hand (the original SMPS that came with the BAs "suffixed" with large flat inductors and then onto amps) - the difference is utterly, utterly positive - highly recommend to anyone who has these amps to do them a favour - I was very skeptical but now am listening to the difference what an enhanced power supply can do (to these amps anyway)

[stu.dio]

here's a photo of the PSU with the lid off - you can see the stock SMPSs - so far been running it for 2 days, no explosions, no heat - hums - buzzing - very very happy
https://public.me.com/ix/stu.dio/BA-DIY-INDUCTION-PSU.jpg

[wee tee cee]

Does a PSU make a lot of difference sonically?
I have 4 monoblocks at work in my set up and just wondered if it makes a justifiable difference/improvement. I made tentative enquiries with Paul Hynes but the Psu worked out more expensive than the four amps......

[Ali Tait]

I think it does Tony. What's the power requirements of one monoblock? Perhaps Nick's PS for the Touch could do the job.

[stu.dio]

Does a PSU make a lot of difference sonically?
I have 4 monoblocks at work in my set up and just wondered if it makes a justifiable difference/improvement. I made tentative enquiries with Paul Hynes but the Psu worked out more expensive than the four amps......

I was in your boat only a few days ago - but now I know IT REALLY DOES help - The differences my standard SMPS with added inductors have made are -
• absolute focus of image (well the best I have ever heard my system produce)
• real sense of space (probably due to more focused sound)
• "bouncy" elastic rhythm :rolleyes::cool:
• textured deep bass (still not earth shaking but definitely deep enough)
• very clear highs
• most of all the midrange has leveled and come out to play (as much as I love these amps the midrange always seemed a little hidden/nasal)

If you have equipment that you deem special and enjoy often, then I would recommend it so they can be appreciated for their full potential.

[Reid Malenfant]

I was in your boat only a few days ago - but now I know IT REALLY DOES help - The differences my standard SMPS with added inductors have made are -
• absolute focus of image (well the best I have ever heard my system produce)
• real sense of space (probably due to more focused sound)
• "bouncy" elastic rhythm :rolleyes::cool:
• textured deep bass (still not earth shaking but definitely deep enough)
• very clear highs
• most of all the midrange has leveled and come out to play (as much as I love these amps the midrange always seemed a little hidden/nasal)

If you have equipment that you deem special and enjoy often, then I would recommend it so they can be appreciated for their full potential.
Can I ask a question?

Do you have any storage capacitors downstream of the inductors?

You see inductors don't like changes in current & from what I am reading you are feeding a power amp or two following these. If there is no downstream storage capacitance I'd expect the rail voltage to change at the amps depending on the load & this isn't good for a class D amp as they have poor power supply rejection ratio.

[Ali Tait]

Would it have much effect in this case Mark, as I think the monos only drag up to 2A each? (I think)

[Reid Malenfant]

Quite possibly unless there is some kind of decent sized storage capacitance in the amps themselves Ali :cool:

What this chap has done is create the same kind of supply that is in a few of the musical fidelity amps, but without a decent sized cap following the inductor it won't be as good as it could be & it could be very good indeed :D

[Ali Tait]

Not sure mate, but they are pretty small amps! About the size of four cd's stacked together.

[stu.dio]

Can I ask a question?

Do you have any storage capacitors downstream of the inductors?

You see inductors don't like changes in current & from what I am reading you are feeding a power amp or two following these. If there is no downstream storage capacitance I'd expect the rail voltage to change at the amps depending on the load & this isn't good for a class D amp as they have poor power supply rejection ratio.

None at the moment - in it's previous incarnation it had x2 small 1000uf 63v in series per inductor. But I had read that it is not a particularly good idea to place a capacitor after an SMPS - http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=63266

My electronics knowledge is pretty limited - and must admit to this PSU working out is somewhat of a fluke - a friend advised me to replace the torroidal in the original design as to output the 18v(3a) the BAs peak at.
I am very interested to hear if you think putting some caps on the output is a good thing - and do you have and recommendations

Stu

[Reid Malenfant]

None at the moment - in it's previous incarnation it had x2 small 1000uf 63v in series per inductor. But I had read that it is not a particularly good idea to place a capacitor after an SMPS - http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=63266

My electronics knowledge is pretty limited - and must admit to this PSU working out is somewhat of a fluke - a friend advised me to replace the torroidal in the original design as to output the 18v(3a) the BAs peak at.
I am very interested to hear if you think putting some caps on the output is a good thing - and do you have and recommendations

Stu
Hi Stu, adding extra capacitance after an SMPS is indeed a bad idea as it can affect the feedback loop of the power supply & make it unstable, so your reading is correct :) However, you have placed an inductor on the output of your SMPS, so any capacitance following this won't effect the PSU ;)

I'd suggest you fit as large a capacitance as you can find that has a higher voltage than the PSUs. If you look on ebay I'm sure you'll find a couple of caps fairly cheap that should do the trick. Once you have done so you'll have what is known as a pi filter, these work very well indeed.

[stu.dio]

Fantastic - thanks for the sage advice - If it sounds any better than it does right now I'm in for a real treat.

[stu.dio]

I'd suggest you fit as large a capacitance as you can find that has a higher voltage than the PSUs. If you look on ebay I'm sure you'll find a couple of caps fairly cheap that should do the trick. Once you have done so you'll have what is known as a pi filter, these work very well indeed.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any recommendations? the amps already have x2 2200uf 35v Bgates each (they were x2 2200uf 25v Nichons) - I have only but a good feeling (nothing scientific) for some 22,000uf/40v or even 33,000uf (http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/mundorf_mlytic_ag.html) but am conscious of damaging something - would such a high value need a bleed resistor? - Then there is the issue of earth - as I'm in greece the SMPS only run off + and - AC - I have been told the caps would need to be connected to the positive out on the inductors and ground / do I therefor need to run and ground cable back to the mains earth? or use the neg? :mental:
apart from damaging something, I also get the uncanny feeling of something exploding.

kind regards
Stu

[stu.dio]

All ok - it's sorted - bank of 12x1000uf caps in parallel per output after the inductors did the trick.

- Sounding OH so lovely -

so for definite the Bantam monos perform in a deferent league with a decent PSU. There are ways of doing it on the cheap if you know how - by using the supplied SMPS units and filtering them.

Stu

[pitadavespa]

(Old thread wake up)

Hi,

I've been listening my recently acquired TA Monoblocks and I'm loving it.

Mines are a "special ones" :D , because they have a -15dB gain made by TA, ordered by the original owner to match his high gain preamp.

I'm using them with Rotel 980 (transport+DAC), Icon Audio Passive pre and Xavian Mia II speakers (86dB). The sound is great, but I have to use the red gain setting in the monos to get a good volume level (due to the -15dB).
TA says the best sound quality (technically) is obtained using the lowest gain setting (yellow).
What gain setting do you prefer?
Do you guys think I'm loosing something here?

To use the lower settings and obtain a good volume I'd have to remove that gain reduction (replacing some resistors).
Do you think I should do it?
Is there any noticeable difference in sound quality between the lower and higher gain settings?

Thanks,
Luis

[Mr Kipling]

BSA ?

[pitadavespa]

BSA ?

I have no idea what you mean... :scratch:

[RMutt]

I have no idea what you mean... :scratch:

BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) is an old English motorcycle company that used to make a model called a Bantam. I assume that is the connection.

[walpurgis]

BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) is an old English motorcycle company that used to make a model called a Bantam. I assume that is the connection.

Pop, Pop, Pop. Ridden a few. :D

[RMutt]

I've got an A65 Thunderbolt in the garage that is going to be my retirement project.

[pitadavespa]

BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) is an old English motorcycle company that used to make a model called a Bantam. I assume that is the connection.

Ohhh. Ok.

[WAD62]

BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) is an old English motorcycle company that used to make a model called a Bantam. I assume that is the connection.

I used to taz about the farm on an old D144/175 Bantam, a right old lump of pig iron!!! ;)

A monoblock question....I've been umming and ahhing about the monoblocks for some time now, my plan is to bi-amp with them at some point, so I'd be going with four.

Presumably the 2 RCAs in the back are 1 in and 1 out for 'daisy chaining'?

P.S. Anyone tried them with an MDAC as a pre-amp?

[pitadavespa]

I used to taz about the farm on an old D144/175 Bantam, a right old lump of pig iron!!! ;)

A monoblock question....I've been umming and ahhing about the monoblocks for some time now, my plan is to bi-amp with them at some point, so I'd be going with four.

Presumably the 2 RCAs in the back are 1 in and 1 out for 'daisy chaining'?

I believe you will only take real advantage of bi-amping if you use an external crossover and remove your speakers crossovers.
I think it's the only way to guarantee that each amp only needs to take care of "it's own frequencies".

[WAD62]

I believe you will only take real advantage of bi-amping if you use an external crossover and remove your speakers crossovers.
I think it's the only way to guarantee that each amp only needs to take care of "it's own frequencies".

Thanks for your concern...However I've been happily bi-amping with two 8000Ps for the last 15 years, into my bi-wired speakers!!!

Perhaps you'd better have a word with John at Temple Audio...

"The gain settings are selected using the front button and the power LED will change colour to indicate which gain level you have chosen

Being able to very accurately tweak the gain of each amplifier block in the system has an additional benefit in Bi or Quad Amped systems."

Now can someone answer a straightforward question please...;)

[Clive]

I used to taz about the farm on an old D144/175 Bantam, a right old lump of pig iron!!! ;)

A monoblock question....I've been umming and ahhing about the monoblocks for some time now, my plan is to bi-amp with them at some point, so I'd be going with four.

Presumably the 2 RCAs in the back are 1 in and 1 out for 'daisy chaining'?

P.S. Anyone tried them with an MDAC as a pre-amp?
The 2 rcas on the monos can be used for daisy chaining, they are simply connected in // on the older monos. The latest monos only have one rca as it seems people got confused by this!

[WAD62]

The latest monos only have one rca as it seems people got confused by this!

Hi Clive, so are these photos out of date...http://www.templeaudio.net/monoblock.html

Only one RCA, that's going to make bi/quad-amping a bit difficult, I'd need an RCA splitter or some-such...or have I missed something?

[pitadavespa]

Thanks for your concern...However I've been happily bi-amping with two 8000Ps for the last 15 years, into my bi-wired speakers!!!

Hi Will,

It's not a concern, it's more of an humble advise. Please don't take me wrong.

I'm sure you do. But that doesn't mean that you wouldn't be even more happier if you splited the signal before entering each amp.
I think (maybe I'm wrong), that the way you're using your amps each amp has to deal with the entire range of frequencies. If you used an active crossover to split the signal, only the desired frequencies would reach each amp and be amplified.

But, that was not your question.

Cheers,
Luis

[Ali Tait]

Hi Clive, so are these photos out of date...http://www.templeaudio.net/monoblock.html

Only one RCA, that's going to make bi/quad-amping a bit difficult, I'd need an RCA splitter or some-such...or have I missed something?

Only if your pre has only one pair of rca outs. If there are two sets, no problem.

[WAD62]

Hi Will,

It's not a concern, it's more of an humble advise. Please don't take me wrong.

I'm sure you do. But that doesn't mean that you wouldn't be even more happier if you splited the signal before entering each amp.
I think (maybe I'm wrong), that the way you're using your amps each amp has to deal with the entire range of frequencies. If you used an active crossover to split the signal, only the desired frequencies would reach each amp and be amplified.

But, that was not your question.

Cheers,
Luis

No problem Luis...:)

There are probably differing degrees of bi-amping, the more conventional way IME, is parallel feeds into the amps, one driving the bass one the tweeter...into bi-wirable speakers, which is what I have. So I have one stereo amp driving the tweeters, and one driving the bass...other options are an amp per channel...but I digress

Anyway with only one RCA on the monoblock I'd struggle to replicate my current configuration, nevermind anything more sophisticated...:scratch:

I've sent an enquiry to Temple Audio, perhaps John can explain...

[Clive]

Hi Clive, so are these photos out of date...http://www.templeaudio.net/monoblock.html

Only one RCA, that's going to make bi/quad-amping a bit difficult, I'd need an RCA splitter or some-such...or have I missed something?
Here's a pic of my Monos which I used for a recent review. I tried tried bi-amped stereos and 2 monos + 1 stereo too.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/cmeakins/MonoblocksRear_zps63fef878.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cmeakins/media/MonoblocksRear_zps63fef878.jpg.html)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/cmeakins/MonoblocksFront_zps8e80a156.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cmeakins/media/MonoblocksFront_zps8e80a156.jpg.html)

[WAD62]

Only if your pre has only one pair of rca outs. If there are two sets, no problem.

Hi Ali, the MDAC only has one set of RCAs...but it does have additional XLRs

Mmmm I wonder...time for a JW question

[Clive]

Maybe get someone you make you up a short splitter cable to connect to a single interconnect. That's what I did and didn't notice any degradation.

[WAD62]

Maybe get someone you make you up a short splitter cable to connect to a single interconnect. That's what I did and didn't notice any degradation.

...or if the XLRs can be connected at the same time as the RCAs on the MDAC...without the smell of burning!

I'd just need some XLR to RCA adapters...if such a thing exists

[Ali Tait]

Hi Ali, the MDAC only has one set of RCAs...but it does have additional XLRs

Mmmm I wonder...time for a JW question

I'm sure they will accommodate whatever you need, I've found them vey helpful in the past.

[Clive]

...or if the XLRs can be connected at the same time as the RCAs on the MDAC...without the smell of burning!

I'd just need some XLR to RCA adapters...if such a thing exists
I suspect there would be a 6db difference between the outputs. I'm sure JW will advise more accurately.

[pitadavespa]

No problem Luis...:)

There are probably differing degrees of bi-amping, the more conventional way IME, is parallel feeds into the amps, one driving the bass one the tweeter...into bi-wirable speakers, which is what I have. So I have one stereo amp driving the tweeters, and one driving the bass...other options are an amp per channel...but I digress

Anyway with only one RCA on the monoblock I'd struggle to replicate my current configuration, nevermind anything more sophisticated...:scratch:

I've sent an enquiry to Temple Audio, perhaps John can explain...

Ok. :thumbsup:

[Ali Tait]

I run my OB's actively, with two stereo Bantam Golds, fed from a miniDSP active crossover jobbie. Works well for me, and is easily better than the Behringer DCX2496 I was using before.

[WAD62]

I suspect there would be a 6db difference between the outputs. I'm sure JW will advise more accurately.

Cheers Clive, that route looks like a bit of a dead end then...

The answer is staring me in the face, I have one of Stan's (Beresford) RCA routers between my pre-amps MDAC (Digital), Q (analogue), and my power amps, it has A or B outputs. If I have it modded to A & B outputs it's job done, and no additional cables...:)

[WAD62]

I've been in touch with my used Audiolab chap, who's interested in my 8000Ps, he has a pair of reconditioned UK 8000Ms available at a reasonable price....:eyebrows:

So I'd be going from horizontal Bi-amping/Bi-wired, with one P on Tweeters, one on Bass...to one M per channel bi-wired to each channel....

Any thoughts as to how 4 Bantam Monoblocks would compare? Ultimately the cost will be similar...ultimately I'll need to listen ;)

Source is MDAC (L2 Toy upgrade) DAC & Pre, into upgraded Mission 753s (to be replaced by IPL TL5s)

[WAD62]

The price was too reasonable...bought and installed...:eyebrows:

The upgraded 8000Ms sound superb, terrific weight and body...burning in nicely :D

[Peter Stockwell]

I think it's more to do with the feisty Santa rooster.

[Peter Stockwell]

I think it's more to do with the feisty Bantam rooster.
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