View Full Version : Sad but true.
On AoS there are some very pleasant genuine music and Hi Fi enthusiasts. Some are extremely knowledgeable in their particular areas, in general very polite and helpful, everything one could wish for from a hobby forum in fact.
Then unfortunately we have the Trade, mainly salespeople but some so called manufacturers. In my forum experience it s been these parasites that have not only helped to ruin many forums but also done immeasurable damage to the Hi Fi Industry in general.
Well, reading the most recent outbreak of handbag bitch fighting here conducted by Trade reps it’s easy to understand why many forums just don’t tolerate their presence on the general forum.
My view is if someone registers as Trade then that’s where they should post and not be allowed to promote themselves and their products in the rest of the forum.
I don’t want to read stories about when I was selling crap to the gullible thank you and I don’t want to hear their opinions about equipment either. Surprisingly Hi Fi salespeople don’t have any better hearing than the rest of us although we’ve all had the “if you can’t hear the difference between this product and that product Sir, then is there any point in you listening to music at all” approach.
Thankfully the internet is slowly killing off the sales based retail outlets, unfortunately that means these people are turning up on the net forums and here we seems to have the worst of self promoting variety.
I mean, for example take at look at the quarter page declaration of one salesman who posts here.
Basically he states he won’t post unless he has something to say but pretty much every post is either a link to his blog or a news item. It seems he doesn’t actually have anything to say after all and the regular posting just makes sure his underhand advertising is in permanent view.
Consider the most recent handbag fight Andre quite reasonably points out quite correctly that this poster is using his introduction to promote his products and Andre is quite correct in this because that is exactly what he was doing. Then a fight broke out between another salesman and the original poster and as pointed out by Macca it makes the entire forum look as pathetic as the fighting salesmen.
One trade member who posts here has been banned from more forums than I’ve managed to visit. Are we really going to believe he’s just a misunderstood well meaning guy and everyone else has got him wrong? False accounts, constant product shilling,
Unnecessarily unpleasant? No, I don’t think so, just fed up with these people taking the piss.
I don’t believe the genuine enthusiast want these people. A brief read of what many think of the Hi Fi Industry in general on these forums illustrates as much: crap magazines, corrupt reviewers, rude and pushy sales staff, the list goes on.
If these people are genuinely interested in our hobby then why on earth can’t they contribute as individuals without the constant product and self promotion like the rest of us?
Seems easy to me: want to join as Trade? No worries, but stay on the Trade section. Want to talk to the rest of us? Great then leave the trade tag behind.
It’s a shame really because I’ve enjoyed contributing here and there are a great many interesting and friendly people here but I’m sick of the piss taking crap from the Trade here so I wont be contributing further.
John
I would ask you to reconsider I and many others find your contributions here excellent and really value your views
AOS sometimes get it wrong, but I think you found a place where you are really valued
Reid Malenfant
30-05-2011, 19:34
I think you have made some valid points John ;) If you genuinely mean what you say about no longer posting you have my email AD & i still have yours m8 :)
Keep in touch fella :exactly: It'll be a damn shame to see you stop posting though as that server build was getting interesting & i'm sure i'm not the only person on here that thinks the very same!
ATB chap.
Sorry to read that some trade posters have been bothering you, John. I guess it's fair to say that we all have at least one poster who irritates us, but could you not just exercise your brain filter and ignore? We don't want to lose you, mate, you're an excellent contributor here.
Am I a trade poster then - despite not having been in the trade since 2004?
We don't want to lose you, mate, you're an excellent contributor here.
+1 and I have to say all that bitch slapping was really annoying me too John, but I totally understand your feelings. I will be sorry to see a fellow 'file based audio' enthusiast go, especially as you kicked my butt and got me to build my own server ;)
Anyway, best of luck fella if you do decide to leave :cool:
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
30-05-2011, 20:03
If I read this correctly it is partly aimed at me, well I have not promoted any product of mine. I produce phono amps, amplifiers, speakers and cables. The product I was referring to is not mine, I make no money from it, all I am doing is providing a way to market for it, you obviously didn't read post 27 - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11512&page=3
Plus I don't see how I can be blamed for someone deciding to insult and attack me, anyway it has all been removed thankfully.
You will only get mention of NVA from me if I am asked a question or it is referred to, so if you blame me for leaving then please think again and stay.
There's always the "ignore list" http://theartofsound.net/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist
Personally, it doesn't bother me (at least not to the extent that it clearly does others) - we know who the trade members are so we can choose to ignore or interpret their postings with this in mind.
Hmmmm.... would be very sorry to see you go John, for the very reason that your latest post will prompt a few of us to have a think - you're not scared to "tell it how it is."
I think we all know the Trade members to which you are referring, and as Mark says, some valid points. That said, I also think you are being a little unfair to many of the trade members who DO add greatly to the AoS community. Would be unfair to name names, but if you think about it, there are plenty of them - probably more than you realise...
Your choice of course what you do, and all the best to you if you do move on, but I hope you will reconsider as your contributions are highly valued I feel.
Neil McCauley
30-05-2011, 21:30
It’s a shame really because I’ve enjoyed contributing here and there are a great many interesting and friendly people here but I’m sick of the piss taking crap from the Trade here so I wont be contributing further.
Oh dear. Must be galling that not everyone fits your ideal of the appropriate forum member? I feel certain that I fall beneath your benchmark of what might lead to my universal acceptability – were I to value it. But then again, who cares? Anyway, no shortage of other more appropriate online audiences elsewhere who take a similar view to you I guess.
Meanwhile, telling the forum what you don't want is all very well - but perhaps explaining what you do want in the way of comments, observations and so on might be more constructive? Just a thought. Moreover you could start your own forum. Just another thought.
That said, I also think you are being a little unfair to many of the trade members who DO add greatly to the AoS community.
Hear, hear.
That's not helpful, Howard.
Marco.
Neil McCauley
30-05-2011, 21:50
That's not helpful, Howard.
Marco.
Okay, what part would you like me to delete Marco? I'm at your service. Sincerely, Howard
That said, I also think you are being a little unfair to many of the trade members who DO add greatly to the AoS community.
Absolutely. Many of the trade members here make AoS what it is. We would not be where we are now (a successful and vibrant forum with a thriving community of like-minded enthusiasts) without them.
I also don't want John to leave, as I value his contributions, and like others here, adds his own unique personality and life experiences into the mix.
But I also have to be honest and say that I dislike these 'drama queen' style exits, where someone finds it justified to make sweeping criticisms simply because there are one or two people (trade or otherwise) out of a membership of nearly 4500, they don't like - especially when apart from that they seem pretty contented.
It’s far better simply to ignore those you dislike and get on with it. I'm afraid that in real life there are people who will annoy you, often neighbours and such like, but that doesn't mean you should move to a different area to avoid them! You stick it out and make the best of it.
Life isn't perfect, and neither are Internet communities. We do our best here, but it's a tough job trying to keep everyone happy all of the time.
Marco.
Okay, what part would you like me to delete. I'm at your service. Sincerely, Howard
The bit with "Bye bye John". It smacked of rubbing salt into the wounds. So I'd appreciate it, Howard, if you removed that remark, or better still, helped change John's mind and gave him a good reason to stick around.
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
30-05-2011, 21:57
Life isn't perfect, and neither are Internet communities. We do our best here, but it's a tough job trying to keep everyone happy all of the time.
Marco.
Amen to that! :)
Jac Hawk
30-05-2011, 21:59
I would go along with your view Alex, there are good and bad members both trade and none trade, i personally don't have a problem with trade members suggesting you try their kit or using their logo as an avatar, and to be honest i'm sure a lot of trade members are a lot more concious about what they post due to the fact that they are trade and don't want an innocent comment to be misinterpreted as a sales pitch. On the other hand though some trade members do come across as know it all twats who think because they've sold gear for the past billion years somehow their opinion is the only opinion that matters.
At the end of the day life's too short to let the few people who wind you up, stop you from doing what you enjoy, my advice is don't let them get under your skin john, your opinions are valued by many members who enjoy reading your posts as much as i'm sure you enjoy writing them, don't let em win mate.
Neil McCauley
30-05-2011, 22:00
The bit with "Bye bye John". It smacked of rubbing salt into the wounds. So I'd appreciate it, Howard, if you removed that remark, or better still, helped change John's mind and gave him a good reason to stick around.
Marco.
I will remove right now. As for the other request - truly I have no idea how to.
He is an adult and no doubt has his reasons. I might not agree with them but I respect his right to hold them and express them. Even his implication that all traders are to a greater or lesser extent disreputable.
Moreover, would he even listen to any suggestions from me – given that I’m tainted with the stigma of being a retailer – with all the associate guile and persuasive skills our part of the industry are stigmatized with? Somehow I doubt it. But if given the opportunity, then I’ll give it my best shot.
Moreover if AoS's 'loss' is another forum's gain (entirely logical I would suggest) that it is not inconceivable that the reverse might be true. Possible his migration to another forum might be the catalyst for one of their established contributors to contribute to AoS?
As I see it, and this most certainly includes me, anyone posting on a forum must be hoping for (a) an audience and (b) some recognition of their contribution. Otherwise, why would they do it?
Perhaps I have a very thick skin - as both a retailer and a 'civilian'? When I post or comment, I avoid any form of self-delusion that I might attract both a universal audience and universal agreement. Life's not like than in my experience. And anyway, that's not my objective - which is just as well 'cos it doesn't happen.
When I look at the online version of (for example) The Daily Telegraph, I don't when confronted by what is for me the trivia of sport, fashion and religion decide not to every look at it again? I make a decision to absorb the bits that relate to my interest and ignore the rest. All seasoned magazine editors and newspaper editors must I guess know this too. It seems of late that visitors to fora (if indeed that is the plural) seem to demand an utterly narrow set of postings which precisely match their own specific emotional or other aspirations and reinforce their own points of view. In this respect at least, online communication is in the stone-age compared to the mature and intelligent press.
And here's the irony; he now has the audience that he would deny others having.
Ok, thanks for that.
At the end of the day life's too short to let the few people who wind you up, stop you from doing what you enjoy...
That's it in a nutshell, Mike! :clap:
Marco.
Jac Hawk
30-05-2011, 22:10
Let's not turn this thread into a witch hunt fellas
kininigin
30-05-2011, 22:14
Hope you reconsider john as i also value your input.
We all have our off days,were the slightest thing can piss you off,so just chill for a bit,spend time with family and friends,have a laugh.
If your going to be pissed off about something,make it something worthwhile like jedwood or justin beiber.
Jac Hawk
30-05-2011, 22:20
If your going to be pissed off about something,make it something worthwhile like jedwood or justin beiber.
:steam::steam:yep they boil my piss:steam::steam: :ner::lolsign::lolsign:
If your going to be pissed off about something,make it something worthwhile like jedwood or justin beiber.
That's not helping - he actually LIKES those two artists! ;)
If your going to be pissed off about something, make it something worthwhile like jedwood or justin beiber.
I had to Google both those names and I'm still none the wiser . . . :lol: . . . I'm thinking maybe that's a good thing?
Jac Hawk
30-05-2011, 22:28
That's not helping - he actually LIKES those two artists! ;)
I bet he voted for them on eurovision:lolsign:
kininigin
30-05-2011, 22:32
I had to Google both those names and I'm still none the wiser . . . :lol: . . . I'm thinking maybe that's a good thing?
The only reason i know jedwood is from never mind the buzzcocks and to be honest i've heard the name justin beiber and know people think he is a twat but i don't know what he does.
kininigin
30-05-2011, 22:33
That's not helping - he actually LIKES those two artists! ;)
woops my bad
Jac Hawk
30-05-2011, 22:52
The only reason i know jedwood is from never mind the buzzcocks and to be honest i've heard the name justin beiber and know people think he is a twat but i don't know what he does.
The holes already dug mate, and no amount of back peddling is going to save you:eek: admit it you're a JEDWOOD groupie:gig:
:lolsign:
Hi Howard,
It seems of late that visitors to fora (if indeed that is the plural) seem to demand an utterly narrow set of postings which precisely match their own specific emotional or other aspirations and reinforce their own points of view.
There you make a very valid point, and one I wholeheartedly agree with.
I'm not saying John's guilty of that, but plenty are, and it's a completely ridiculous and unrealistic notion to have. Apart from anything else, it would make things very boring indeed!
The best you can do is be yourself and stay true to your beliefs and values, but not to the extent that it makes you blinkered. So always be open-minded to new ideas and concepts, embrace those you agree with, and be respectful and tolerant towards others.
If you simply want to cocoon yourself in a comfort zone, and have your world view or hi-fi values justified and reinforced, then the cut and thrust of joining a community full of many different characters, with often different views and values, is probably not the best place to obtain the 'warm glow' of self-congratulation...
Marco.
On the other hand though some trade members do come across as know it all twats who think because they've sold gear for the past billion years somehow their opinion is the only opinion that matters.
Double OUCH!!!!!
kininigin
30-05-2011, 23:08
The holes already dug mate, and no amount of back peddling is going to save you:eek: admit it you're a JEDWOOD groupie:gig:
bugger i've been outed by myself and in public,im such a jedwood :lol:
Thing Fish
30-05-2011, 23:15
I actually think the Bieber is quite a talented individual. Check him out playing the drums for a start!
Anywho the point I was going to make was about the ignore option. It's there for all to use and indeed I have used it to great effect for a few months now and boy what a relief it is...:eyebrows:
Jac Hawk
30-05-2011, 23:27
Obviously John has been upset by one or two members of the AoS, i don't know who's upset whom or what's been said and frankly i'm not really bothered, when folks are giving their opinion there is always going to be disagreement, it's how we handle the comments posted, and in the past i've noticed John does take some things to heart.
I enjoy the AoS because i can get advice from people with a wider knowledge base than me on many subjects, as well as give my opinion in return and have a bit of a laugh, i don't take things to heart and treat people with the respect i would like to be given, when this ceases to be the case i'll call it a day too, if John's not enjoying the forum and has a problem with a member or members that he can't sort out privately, then it's probably for the best that he calls it a day.
Jac Hawk
30-05-2011, 23:41
Double OUCH!!!!!
easy tiger;) i actually enjoy reading your posts dave:) this is what i mean though about this thread turning into a lot of finger pointing and witch hunting, if i personally think you're sounding like an arrogant know it all twat (and this isn't aimed at anyone in particular) i won't carry it around all day and let a comment on a forum upset me or bring me down, to be honest i've got bigger things to worry about.
Thing Fish
31-05-2011, 00:01
Lets all take a deep breath and raise a glass of cheer. That's my advice...:cool:
Jac Hawk
31-05-2011, 00:08
Lets all take a deep breath and raise a glass of cheer. That's my advice...:cool:
Well said +1:cool:
flatpopely
01-06-2011, 21:36
It's my fault that the handbags started and for that I appologise.
Andrew.
P.S. Sorry for making your life difficult Marco, it won't happen again.
BURN THE WITCH!!!
Of course, I'm kidding. There have been many wise words mentioned here, especially; life produces catalyst/circumstances that push ones buttons. It's always beneficial in the long run to try to remove the buttons, rather than run from the finger :¬)
It's my fault that the handbags started and for that I appologise.
Andrew.
P.S. Sorry for making your life difficult Marco, it won't happen again.
Hey, Andrew, we're all human, but I appreciate that :)
Marco.
Jhon,I do hope you will join us again when you have had some time to cool off some.
Your a great guy, and part of this forum.
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