Sd acoustics bass driver re-foam...?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Havent collected the sd acoustics Obs yet ...
But just had a call from thier owner saying the surrounds on the bass drivers surrounds are falling to bits ...
They are 8" drivers
I'm interested to know costs of refoaming...
Diy options? Is it easy enough?
Where to get the required bits?
And getting it done by someone else?
Who offeres this service ?
What about just replacing the whole driver?
He has offered me a discount, so if I can find out what this might cost, I can go to him with a proposed discount price ...


Im a little disappointed but I guess it is to be expected with speaks this old ...

[Macca]

This chap was featured in HFW many years ago, apparantly he can fix or re-cone anything:

http://london.localtiger.co.uk/london-address-telephone/services/professional-speakers-adf/d-k-loud-speaker-services-15989.html

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'm not sure who made the bass driver. I took one out of one of my speakers to try to help out with this. I couldn't remember whether there were any identifying marks on them. Trouble is, mine have Deflex panels stuck on the back of the magnets so if there's anything there, I've covered it up & I can't take them off & replace them very easily.

So, best I can do is provide some photos & a description.
They're 8" doped paper drivers & the offending surrounds are, of course foam. The basket is actually plastic, which rather surprised me.


http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6947/dscf3485u.jpg

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9462/dscf3484a.jpg

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/9608/dscf3483r.jpg

It turns out that I'm going to have rather more interest in this thread than I originally thought because it looks like my surrounds are going south too!
One consolation though Hamish, is that the mid-range drivers have rubber surrounds & mine are still in very good nick.

[DSJR]

Wembley Loudspeakers are excellent too and are the dogs doo-dahs with old AR and Gale speakers in need of a re-foam.

That driver looks possibly like a SEAS and I believe some of these (or close derivatives) are being made again.

Good luck Hamish :)

[Ali Tait]

You should be able to buy reconing kits on ebay or similar if you fancy having a go yourself. Would be a lot cheaper that way.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Foam rings seem pretty cheap on Ebay - as long as we can find the right ones.

There's a 'How To...' here (http://www.audiofriends.nl/pdf/refoaming.pdf)

[Rare Bird]

Havent collected the sd acoustics Obs yet ...
But just had a call from thier owner saying the surrounds on the bass drivers surrounds are falling to bits ...
They are 8" drivers
I'm interested to know costs of refoaming...
Diy options? Is it easy enough?
Where to get the required bits?
And getting it done by someone else?
Who offeres this service ?
What about just replacing the whole driver?
He has offered me a discount, so if I can find out what this might cost, I can go to him with a proposed discount price ...


Im a little disappointed but I guess it is to be expected with speaks this old ...

Since as your purchase was over the top price wise, you want some money back, you do anyway as it wasnt mentioned in the listing, you are dissapointed & you have to pay out of your own pocket for repair.. they are Seas 8'' & can be done at Wembley Speeks as Dave mentioned, i read somewhere a bit back that someone taken his there to be re foamed.. People seem to think just gluing a set of new rings on is a simple procedure & can be done in any old fashion but i can assure you it's not & can't, but anything will do with some folk.Take em in get em done right

[The Vinyl Adventure]

So I won't be going it alone then ... Sorry to hear yours have died too Chris!

Cheers for the pointers so far!
The DIY option doesn't look to hard... If a touch on the scary side!

Ill see if I can make some enquieries in the week Chris ... Work is a bit crazy, but I'll see what I can find out at lunch time ...
Once I have the speakers I guess I can be a bit clearer as mine won't have the yellow things I'd guess!

He said he was happy to lower the price accordingly andre ... £185 was still within what I was happy to pay although I would have prefered £150, as that seems to be about the going rate...

[Rare Bird]

Hi Hamish

When resetting a fresh surround you have to make sure that cone is attached to the surround & basket right or you will end up with mis-alighnment issues: that voice coil has to be perfectly inline..

I won't have issues with my Seas 8'' drivers, they have Polypropelyne cones & rubber surrounds

You could, if you want try see if you can source a new pair, the model numbers will be on the back of the magnet in a blue & white sticker.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I tend to agree with Andre - they need to be done properly.

http://www.wembleyloudspeaker.com/

[Reid Malenfant]

The only plastic framed bass drivers i have ever seen were made by Audax ;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I tend to agree with Andre - they need to be done properly.

http://www.wembleyloudspeaker.com/

I'll give em a them next week then...
You want me to let you know what they say?


Audax mark? What does that mean?

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'll give em a them next week then...
You want me to let you know what they say?


Audax mark? What does that mean?

Yes please!


Audax is a drive unit manufacturer

[Reid Malenfant]

Audax is the name of a manufacturer of loudspeaker drive units ;) Like Peerless, ATC, Volt, Morel etc :)

As i say, the only bass drivers i have ever come accross that had a plastic chassis were made by Audax :cool:

[Rare Bird]

They are SEAS units tho, i agree the black coated baskets do give the impression of plastic..

[keiths]

The only plastic framed bass drivers i have ever seen were made by Audax ;)

My Heybrook Heylos have a plastic- (though Heybrook calls it "polycarbonate") framed bass driver. That one is made by Vifa in Denmark (TC18WG09)

[The Grand Wazoo]

They are SEAS units tho, i agree the black coated baskets do give the impression of plastic..


A bloody good impression in that case - they feel, look & weigh like plastic to me!

[Rare Bird]

I can assure you my SEAS units are Alloy baskets

[smithy]

I am going to get my Audax bass units refoamed when I get them out of storage I have used Wembley before and was happy have not had good experiences with DK loudspeakers in the past.

[DSJR]

Audax, SEAS, Peerless and Scan are one and the same overall management now aren't they?

[The Grand Wazoo]

What sort of price did Wembley charge?

(Sorry I don't know your name, would you mind amending your profile details for us please Smiffy?)

[smithy]

Wembley fixed one of my Epos ES14 bass drivers when the cone had separated from the voice coil a couple of years ago can't exactly remember the cost but they did a good job.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

wembley loudspeakers say if its a 8 inch driver it should cost £29 + vat per driver

[Rare Bird]

wembley loudspeakers say if its a 8 inch driver it should cost £29 + vat per driver

Hey you can't complain at that Hamish..

[The Vinyl Adventure]

indeed ... the chap im buying them off has taken a hit accordingly too which is nice ...
a shame really, for him at least, he seems a nice chap!

[nat8808]

Never trust ANYONE dude... Not a shame mate :scratch: only shame is you have to piss about eradicating the mess

hmm...

You have to understand that 95% of the population don't know much about hifi and when they hear a speaker with a foam surround just starting to crumble, they won't hear any difference! To be honest I'm not sure I would either..

If the speaker still sounds ok then why would a rotting surround be a problem to anyone in their view? It would be, to them, like saying something was a bit dusty or the like..

I really don't think it would be a deliberate attempt to con anyone unless they were a dealer of some sort and SHOULD know better.

Otherwise it's just one of those things and you have to take responsibility upon yourself to check these things out beforehand.

[nat8808]

I've used DK loudspeakers before in the past to re-rubber a Dalsford ABR (so not a common repair or size).

I both dropped off and picked it up in person - he did a good job and was very enthusaistic about speakers, drivers and the like, a personal enthusiasm rather than just a business. Think it was £40 (was going to be £50 but kindly only asked £40 off the top of his head after we'd had a cup of tea etc and I listened to his latest speaker creation).

Still, at £29 + VAT (£35 ish) by Wembley speakers - that sounds pretty good too.

[nat8808]

Hi Hamish

When resetting a fresh surround you have to make sure that cone is attached to the surround & basket right or you will end up with mis-alighnment issues: that voice coil has to be perfectly inline..

I won't have issues with my Seas 8'' drivers, they have Polypropelyne cones & rubber surrounds

You could, if you want try see if you can source a new pair, the model numbers will be on the back of the magnet in a blue & white sticker.

I disagree with this (sorry to comment on two posts from you André - coincidence I promise!) as I don't think perfection is that critical at all!

I really doubt there is perfection in Wembley Loudspeaker's work even though they have apparently a deserved good reputation.

I mean, how would they achieve perfection? They're not going to be measuring the gap with feeler guages I bet - they at most will use some sort of plastic shim.. BUT to use a plastic shim will mean removing the dustcap AND removing it in some way so as to be able to replace it or otherwise be forced to try and find an EXACT match (else the one re-foamed driver will won't match the other, cause problems with their customers and they wouldn't have their current reputation) or insist to refoam only in pairs (which they don't do either). Therefore - and especially for only £29! which includes parts - I bet you they won't even remove the dustcap or use any kind of shim.

Looking at the price again, £29, lets say £5 is for parts and Wembley take 50%. That leaves £12 for labour.. £12 per hour for a skilled job is quite low, so either it takes a lot less than that, say 30 minutes, or it's not a skilled job!
If it only takes them 30 mins to refoam the driver then they are certainly not using shims or bothering to remove that dustcap after carefully removing the old foam (can be quite stubborn and takes time).

Therefore I would conclude that Wembley Loudspeakers (or anyone charging £29 + VAT) will be using the very same method as www.AudioFriends.nl (http://www.audiofriends.nl/pdf/refoaming.pdf) and doing it by feel. That means the only difference between you and them is their experience and their gumption (which is easy to come by when it's not your driver and you're being paid).

For something like refoaming speakers, IMHO, experience will mainly be about speeding up the process and not about the quality of the job. A friend of mine has refoamed quite a few speakers which then sound as they should and look professionally done. He says it's easy!

It's easy to talk ourselves into the ground believing that what others do is not a possibility for us - the only way to debunk the myth is to have a go..

[nat8808]

I'm not sure who made the bass driver. I took one out of one of my speakers to try to help out with this. I couldn't remember whether there were any identifying marks on them. Trouble is, mine have Deflex panels stuck on the back of the magnets so if there's anything there, I've covered it up & I can't take them off & replace them very easily.

So, best I can do is provide some photos & a description.
They're 8" doped paper drivers & the offending surrounds are, of course foam. The basket is actually plastic, which rather surprised me.


http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6947/dscf3485u.jpg

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9462/dscf3484a.jpg

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/9608/dscf3483r.jpg

It turns out that I'm going to have rather more interest in this thread than I originally thought because it looks like my surrounds are going south too!
One consolation though Hamish, is that the mid-range drivers have rubber surrounds & mine are still in very good nick.

Looks Vifa-ish to me, much like the driver on Heybrook HB1s - it's the basket and number of mounting holes that look identical.

Could anyone say whether this is the same driver on the SD1 too? I've a pair with obviously wrong bass drivers and been trying to find out the original make..

[The Grand Wazoo]

No, the SD1's had a 10" driver. These are 8"

[Reid Malenfant]

I disagree with this (sorry to comment on two posts from you André - coincidence I promise!) as I don't think perfection is that critical at all!

I really doubt there is perfection in Wembley Loudspeaker's work even though they have apparently a deserved good reputation.

I mean, how would they achieve perfection? They're not going to be measuring the gap with feeler guages I bet - they at most will use some sort of plastic shim.. BUT to use a plastic shim will mean removing the dustcap AND removing it in some way so as to be able to replace it or otherwise be forced to try and find an EXACT match (else the one re-foamed driver will won't match the other, cause problems with their customers and they wouldn't have their current reputation) or insist to refoam only in pairs (which they don't do either). Therefore - and especially for only £29! which includes parts - I bet you they won't even remove the dustcap or use any kind of shim.
& i disagree with this :)

You honestly don't think that the dustcap will be fitted before they fit the cone to the driver basket now do you? They don't need to remove the dustcap simply because it won't be present until they glue it on at the end of the job ;)

Of course they shim it, there could & indeed has to be a quite significant gap between the spider & the pole plate of the magnet, if there wasn't the how would the cone be able to move backwards towards the rear of the driver. We are talking far less than 1mm between the inside of the voicecoil former & the centre pole, likewise with the external winding of the voicecoil & magnet top plate.

The gap between spider & magnet will quite possibly be at least 1cm, that is a big distance to get an accuracy of less than 0.1mm.

So they shim, glue the spider, glue the front suspension & then remove shims & glue on the dustcap :cool:

[Rare Bird]

Nat:
To do a proper job that dust cap needs to come of the centre of the cone you can make a thickish paper tube up & slide it down the hole, that will help keep it inline while repairing the surround, you can obviously buy new surrounds but not dust caps (i don't think)..why mess about when they are cheap as they are to get repaired.


I'm not disputing the honesty of the seller, seems to be ok enough.. Your right, it is best to take responsibility upon yourself to check these things out beforehand, i do painfull & i know i get on sellers wires with it, because i don't trust anyone, i've had too much dissapointment in the past not to. But in some cases you can't & i'm sure Hamish wouldnt have realise to enquire about the deteriorating surrounds, he's more than likely never encountered it before hence the last thing on his mind..The most important thing is hopefully the units will be repaired soon & working, they are goodies & well worth the set back.

[Reid Malenfant]

New dustcaps on fleabay Andre, i have bought a load before so no doubt still there :) In fact i only dropped some from my watched list about a week back :eyebrows:

[nat8808]

& i disagree with this :)

You honestly don't think that the dustcap will be fitted before they fit the cone to the driver basket now do you? They don't need to remove the dustcap simply because it won't be present until they glue it on at the end of the job ;)

Of course they shim it, there could & indeed has to be a quite significant gap between the spider & the pole plate of the magnet, if there wasn't the how would the cone be able to move backwards towards the rear of the driver. We are talking far less than 1mm between the inside of the voicecoil former & the centre pole, likewise with the external winding of the voicecoil & magnet top plate.

The gap between spider & magnet will quite possibly be at least 1cm, that is a big distance to get an accuracy of less than 0.1mm.

So they shim, glue the spider, glue the front suspension & then remove shims & glue on the dustcap :cool:

I would actually agree with you on this.. if they were replacing the cone.

However, I don't think they will be replacing the whole cone, only the surround and therefore the dustcap would have to be removed to use shims.

Cones just aren't available for any driver, only ones like Tannoy who have committed to providing spares - so the only thing to do is the foam replacement with the spider still in situe.

Wembley Loudspeakers will re-foam ProAc drivers for example which use a standard Scan-Speak foam but non-standard coil and branded dust-cap. They couldn't do it if they changed any more than the foam because even ProAc only provide complete drivers and then they're not available for older models direct.

I bet you they only do foams most of the time: re-cones cost a LOT more than £29! Think of the back-log caused by all the cone resourcing they'd have to do. Therefore I think they are doing the same job as an amateur, only faster and more often.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I got the speakers at last...
The bass driver definitely need new foams!
The mid drivers arent the dynaudio ones I was expecting either ... An apparently the seas tweeter has been updated ...
Anyway, I am fairly happy removing the drivers, but I'm less the confident about posting them... What's the best way to pack them to avoid possible further damage?

[Reid Malenfant]

I'd suggest you bolt or wire the drivers together face to face. IE with the fronts facing each other, maybe use spacers to keep them apart & then cover them both in a load of bubblewrap ;)

[Canetoad]

:mental: Kidneys Mark! :)

[Reid Malenfant]

:mental: Kidneys Mark! :)
:scratch: Sorry Bernie, after a few bevvies i might just work out what you are getting at ;)

:eyebrows:

[Canetoad]

Just reminded me of a bad joke I heard years ago. Calling your brains kidneys. I just thought your suggestion was a good idea. :eyebrows:

[The Vinyl Adventure]

That is a good idea ... I still worry about them getting jolted if thrown...
But I suppose a load of bubbles should help??

[The Vinyl Adventure]

A while coming

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/c12d76bd.jpg

My god are they in need of a bit of TLC!

Drivers going off to be fixed up tomorrow I think ... The one on the right is fuuuuucked ... Not foam and it buzzes like a bugger, think it might be terminal ...
Still, all good fun!

You should have seen Hannah's face when she saw them... "What the fuck is that... No! Whatever your goon to say the answer is no!" ... Haha you gotta love an understanding other half

I'd love to comment on how they sound, but I'm not sure it would be a fair assesment! ;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

... And the winner is ...
Vifa drivers

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/973cc5e4.jpg

Fucked Vifa drivers with metal baskets

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/50a3e4a3.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

Drivers going off to be fixed up tomorrow I think ... The one on the right is fuuuuucked ... Not foam and it buzzes like a bugger, think it might be terminal
Possibly not, though if you are sending them off to be reconed then it won't matter anyway :) The fact it happens to work with no visible front suspension is why it's rattling like a good one, however it's still working. If enough of the foam was there to keep things in line it wouldn't rattle...

With only the rear spider holding things up it's all out of line & making nasty noises as you are experiencing :eyebrows:

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Ooo I am lucky ... I found some stale cake inside the cabs!

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/f2db15c1.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

Ooo I am lucky ... I found some stale cake inside the cabs!
Only if you are are a Rat or Mouse :eyebrows: They'll eat anything...

Try foam :D

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Yeah, now I have it sat on its back that's more clear Mark...
This foam is completely banjoed! I can see why refoaming would be difficult!

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I tell a lie, it's bread!
I found a bit of crust!

[Jonboy]

i found smarties in a pair of kefs that i had to have refoamed once, pesky kids me thinks,

I picked a pair of SD1's for a mate as few years back, the crossovers where full of loose connections and i think one of the tweeters had a loose wire as well, i fixed all the loose bits and they sounded quite good to my ears, the previous owner told me that the designer and builder although made very nice speakers shoud of stuck to just designing as the build quility is a bit rubbish to be polite, my mate has now had to recone his as well :doh:

[Batty]

I refoamed a couple of 10" passive radiators just recently, easy enough job, but I wouldn't try proper drivers due to voice coil alignment criticality.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Ha, yep same here ... Wiring on both tweeters is dodgy, had to jiggly the wires to get a sound out of them!
I guess I could rewire all the drivers...
Glue the grill material back in place
Re glue one of the tops back on (fallen off)
Get the bread out
And get the drivers fixed ...
By that time I should have a reasonable pair of speakers ... Bit of a project :)

Smarties eh ... That's even luckier than bread, I'm quite jealous ;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Well, you finally got hold of them then Hamish!
Did the seller charge you for storage?

[nat8808]

(Do they have the right to charge for storage? I'd think there would have to be an agreement, verbal contract in place first..)

Are the Vifas the same as on the SD1s? Hoping they are as I need to find a pair of replacement drivers for my SD1 project (been in storage for ages). They were replaced with cheap ones rather than the previous owner re-foaming.

Are you going to do these yourself Hamish? Should cost about £14 for the foams and the instructions for re-foaming are here:

http://www.audiofriends.nl/pdf/refoaming.pdf

Notice how there's no need for shims or removing the dustcap. I suspect that's how Wembley loudspeakers do it.

I re-aligned the magnet on some BC3s a few months ago without use of shims or anything, just by feel. Worked perfectly and the driver no-longer rattles and scrapes.

[Mothman]

I managed to refoam my Bolivar(JBL's) and I'm frigging useless:lol: I made sure I got the correct foams from the States and the kit came with glue and the right size shims for the voice coils. I didn't fully remove the dustcaps but cut about 90% of the way round and then hinged them back to expose the voice coil. The scariest part was cutting through the dustcaps as these were concave, the rest was fairly straight forward and I made sure I gave time for each glue join to dry (usualy overnight) before proceeding to the next. Really pleased with the results and no rubbing from the voice coils.

I should add that the speakers cost 99p and so all I was risking was the cost of the refoam kit, but knowing what I know now I would certainly not be phased about having another go.

I know this can be done without shimming the voice coils but I certainly wouldn't try it.

[nat8808]

I just found some heybrook HB1s thrown out so I'm definately going to give it a go, though without dustcap removal as per that dutch company instructions.

I'll do a little photo log and let you know how I get on - err, probably won't be for at least a couple of weeks.