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aquapiranha
01-10-2008, 20:21
Since getting rid of my Roksan a couple of years gao, I have been thinking about getting another T/T but I have only a very limited budget. I have seen a very nice Systemdek 11X for a nice price. Any opinions? I would like to get a 1210, but don't have the cash... :doh:

niklasthedolphin
01-10-2008, 21:44
Since getting rid of my Roksan a couple of years gao, I have been thinking about getting another T/T but I have only a very limited budget. I have seen a very nice Systemdek 11X for a nice price. Any opinions? I would like to get a 1210, but don't have the cash... :doh:

Go for the Systemdek IIX.

It's by far better than the 1210 if you have the patience and take the time and get the expert skills to set it up properly.

"dolph"

aquapiranha
01-10-2008, 22:11
Go for the Systemdek IIX.

It's by far better than the 1210 if you have the patience and take the time and get the expert skills to set it up properly.

"dolph"

I am not sure at the moment if I can afford it this month, but hopefully I will be able to! setting it up should not be a problem.

thanks for the reply. :)

Marco
02-10-2008, 10:00
Go for the Systemdek IIX.

It's by far better than the 1210 if you have the patience and take the time and get the expert skills to set it up properly.

"dolph"

No disrespect, Dolph, but from experience of using both I would strongly disagree with that statement, although the Systemdek is a nice deck in its own way.

Steve, I suggest that you read some of the threads on the 1210 in the 'Strokes of Genius' section, particularly 'Tim's SL-1210 adventure' (shown below). There should be some interesting info in there for you. Dolph, you might also wish to read it :)

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1030

Apart from anything else, I would contend that if a standard unmodified 1210 is as good as or better than a pretty well-specified LP12, it's better than a Systemdek ;)

Oh, and you can pick up second-hand 1210s for not a lot of money, sometimes less than 100. Just watch that you have some idea of its history, though.

Marco.

niklasthedolphin
02-10-2008, 10:18
I am not sure at the moment if I can afford it this month, but hopefully I will be able to! setting it up should not be a problem.

thanks for the reply. :)

Don't forget that the Systemdek needs a brick wall mounted shelf to stand on.
The Systemdek's are going very well with Rega RB arms from 300 and up.
It should be set up with extremely soft suspended subchassis to pull out the last deep notes in the groove and to get the amazing soundstage it can reproduce.

If you can find a Systemdek IV, that will be the best they ever made.
Don't go for the Systemdek made without a plinth.

Give it a good cartridge like Shelter 901, Lyra Dorian, Benz L2 or Goldring Elite.

Run it through seperate RIAA like Whest, Mantra or similar super HQ unit.

This will make it a rig compatible with any 10.000,- new-on-the-market rig you can find anywhere.

Good Luck.


Oh.........
And Marco:
Did you ever have a correctly set-up Systemdek from IIX and up to compare?
I had the 1210 and I'm not in doubt.
Stay happy.

"dolph"

Marco
02-10-2008, 10:37
Dolph, I "correctly set-up" every turntable I own! :lolsign:

And yes I'm 'au fait' with both T/Ts. I'll reverse the question and ask you - have you ever heard a 1210 "correctly set-up"? ;)

And by that I mean removing and upgrading the cheap bits which hold back its performance?

Plus, you've just listed about 2k+ of cartidges and phono stages to go with the Systemdek in order to transform it into "a rig compatible with any 10.000,- new-on-the-market rig you can find anywhere" when Steve has stated that he doesn't have the cash for a 1210... LOL!

There's fundamentally one thing that lets the Systemdek down - the fact that it's driven by an 'elastic band' :eyebrows:

Direct-drive, done properly as with the SL-1210, is quite simply more accurate and displays less 'sonic signature', which is what hi-fi is about. Other than that, the Systemdek is a very good turntable, and better than most other belt-drive T/Ts being made today at or near its price point.

Marco.

aquapiranha
02-10-2008, 13:37
Guys, guys....

I have never heard a Systemdek, just one came up at a good price, but I have heard good things about them.

Marco, I am fully aware of the potential from a 1210 - a freind has recently sold his having put it up against a NAS. I may have a think about the idea.

:scratch:

Marco
02-10-2008, 13:51
No worries, Steve. I'm just giving infomation which should help you make a decision :)

I have a lot of experience in this area.


Marco, I am fully aware of the potential from a 1210 - a freind has recently sold his having put it up against a NAS. I may have a think about the idea.


Did you mean it the other way round? ;)

Marco.

aquapiranha
02-10-2008, 17:51
No worries, Steve. I'm just giving infomation which should help you make a decision :)

I have a lot of experience in this area.



Did you mean it the other way round? ;)

Marco.

Well I have not heard the two together, and only heard the NAS on occasion, and it does sound very good. I can't remember if he tried a Rega arm on it - I know he had one - though he knows what he likes. I think I will look into a 1210.

niklasthedolphin
02-10-2008, 19:29
No worries, Steve. I'm just giving infomation which should help you make a decision :)

I have a lot of experience in this area.



Did you mean it the other way round? ;)

Marco.

I wonder.....................

How can you be so categorical about putting a review on some TT's and drive your own with a cartridge belonging in a bin?

Do you have all that experience?
Did you have TT since the mid sixties, like me, without ever giving the format a pause?
DD better than belt driven................and the way you nickname it "elastic band"........................tsk......................t hat leaves me in no dout about lack of listening experience.

1210 is an entry level TT for me and will always be like that.
You can modify it until you can't recognize it....................you can even convert it to a proper belt drive and I would gues it still doesn't deserve any better cartridge than the poor man's choise of the tremendously unnuanced and screamingly distorted Denon cartridges.

The 2k of surrounding equipment I mentioned would serve the Systemdek well. It would be a complete waste of money with the 1210.

And give any 10.000 rig the same or better conditions and the Systemdek set up with the surroundings I mentioned would be strongly competitive ..............if not the overall winner.

My simple advise to the guy with the OP is to go for the Systemdek and avoid the 1210.

"dolph"

Marco
02-10-2008, 20:07
How can you be so categorical about putting a review on some TT's and drive your own with a cartridge belonging in a bin?


LOL! We'll have to agree to differ, Dolph!!

I won't even tackle the rest of your post... I think we should leave it there, my friend, and let Steve decide himself. I don't want to get in a pointless argument with you :)

Marco.

Sid and Coke
04-10-2008, 09:32
well folks:

I've owned and used a Systemdek IIX (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/someofmydecks/large/systemdek%202.JPG) and a Technics SL1200 (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/technicssl1200snaps/large/SL1200%20installed%202.jpg) and i really liked both decks.
The Technics is my only TT now and I'm very happy with all aspects of it apart from its 'plasticky' looks ( i know it's not plastic - but it looks like plastic ! :ner:) and the un-deniable & very distinct lack of arm height when using 'audiophile' Hi-Fi cartridges.
They are both easy to use and to set up. Both decks can also be significantly and easily upgraded in affordable bite sized chunks - handy if you are on a budget - (which i am most of the time). I would say that in this respect the Systemdek is probably easier and cheaper to upgrade - It has a very similar motor to that fittted to a Linn LP12 and so any 'Linn LP12 type' power supply should work on the systemdek. The stock arm geometry on the teardrop armboard decks are the same as a Linn , the square armboard decks will take any Rega spec arm. It would be incredibly easy though to make a bespoke armboard to fit pretty much any other typical arm.
To do this on a Techics looks like it would take a bit more effort.

It is amost essential that the Systemdek is placed on a dedicated TT wall shelf, it is a nightare to operate on a floor mounted rack especially if you have springy suspended wooden floors.

You DO NOT have to fit a turntable wall shelf to an external ( or internal) solid brick or concrete wall. If have only ever fitted ( very successfully ! ) my TT wallshelves to internal, internal, lightweight , plasterboard stud walls. ( an old picture (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/sidshifi/large/System%2022%20July%202003.JPG) ) You just have to use your gumption and common sense when you do it. Don't just attach to the palsterboard , use the internal wooden studs. Here is my last wall shelf fitting adventure (http://imageevent.com/sidandcoke/wallshelfintoacorner) - I can stand in front of my record player - with a record playing, jump up and down like an idiot and it has 'NO' effect on the record player whatsoever - no mean feat i can tell you...

I actually think that in internal stud wall is a prime example of 'Light, strong and rigid' construction , that is often ideal in Hi-Fi situations. The wall dissipates and does not store or transmit vibration in the way that a solid wall would do. You need to have double decker buses full of school kids passing just a few meters away from your Hi-Fi ( picture (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/wallshelfintoacorner/websize/Another%20bloody%20bus%20ex.jpg) ) to appreciate this though...

Right , i'm off to work...

Marco
04-10-2008, 11:02
Interesting post, Tim :)

The 'golden' question though, which you've neatly skirted round, is which one do you think offers the best sonic performance? No sitting on the fence, now! ;)

Having used both myself, I personally am in no doubt whatsoever as to which I prefer - and it doesn't even come close!

Also, would you not agree that a decently specified LP12 is better than any Systemdek, certainly that was the consensus of opinion at the time when both were in their 'heyday', and what my own ears have told me. When I was in Scotland I once visited the factory in Kilmarnock so I know a fair bit about them.

I also rate Lencos - when suitably fettled!

Marco.

niklasthedolphin
04-10-2008, 16:16
Interesting post, Tim :)

The 'golden' question though, which you've neatly skirted round, is which one do you think offers the best sonic performance? No sitting on the fence, now! ;)

Having used both myself, I personally am in no doubt whatsoever as to which I prefer - and it doesn't even come close!

Also, would you not agree that a decently specified LP12 is better than any Systemdek, certainly that was the consensus of opinion at the time when both were in their 'heyday', and what my own ears have told me. When I was in Scotland I once visited the factory in Kilmarnock so I know a fair bit about them.

I also rate Lencos - when suitably fettled!

Marco.

It's a little funny you mention the LP12.
That one I had too.

But my Dunlop Systemdek is the rare TOTL model IV which made me choose to get rid of LP12.

I also had Lenco.
That's a very good TT...................if you stick to 78's.

I would never use Lenco for LP's without changing arm, plinth, standard cartridge, plattermat and almost everything else.

I think you need some better equipment to part the sound from different TT's into their respectively classes.

I rate the Dunlop Systemdek IV, I have, although slightly modded with damping material and Disc of Silence feet in the class of SME 30/2, The Anna Log, Goldmund Studio and so forth..................and guess what.....................I had the chance to compare on extremely well matched super high end equipment.

I also had the chance to listen to EMT machines.
They perform like driving a tractor in a F1 race.
But they are collectable.

Between this class and the 1210 is many thousands of TT's.
The LP 12 lands a lot closer though.

You don't realy respect your own statement: "I won't even tackle the rest of your post... I think we should leave it there, my friend, and let Steve decide himself. I don't want to get in a pointless argument with you :)"

But that's fine.
We are just having fun.

About shelfing the sprung TT's, it just might work fine without bricks.
But don't consider using a gypsum, straw or mud walls.

"dolph"

Marco
04-10-2008, 16:22
My reply was to Tim (Sid and Coke).

Dolph, we're *SO* far apart in our respective opinions on T/Ts and cartridges that it's simply pointless arguing with you - I just don't have the time or the energy! As you say: "stay happy" - I know I am ;)

I had to chuckle at this bit, though:


I had the chance to compare on extremely well matched super high end equipment.


Was it really super, super, super high end, or just merely "super high end"?

ROFL!

Marco.

Sid and Coke
04-10-2008, 17:47
The 'golden' question though, which you've neatly skirted round, is which one do you think offers the best sonic performance? No sitting on the fence, now! ;)


Marco.

To be honest Marco the last time i used my Systemdek iiX was about 6 years ago. I'm pretty sure that every single other component in my Hi-Fi system has also changed since then , so to try and remember what it sounded like is just impossible- i'd have to have them both here side by side to do that. I did acatually do that back then and compared my newly aquired s/h LP12 with the systemdek and because of all the hype i was supremely disappointed by my Linn. I thought it would blow the Systemdek away - but it didn't. I kept the LP12 because it was an LP12 and i'd always wanted one.
I was attracted to the kudos and pride of ownership of the badge if I'm being honest. The systemdek was a fine performer, obviously I had serviced mine and set it up as best as i could, the LP12 was new to me and desperately in need of a service by somebody who knew the deck. I now feel that i know the deck well enough to do this myself now, but have no need :)

The Technics is a fine performer straight from the box, I am already warming to my ownership of it.

I enjoyed owning all 3 decks that I've mentioned in my post, they are all different, I don't think one is better then the other. I'm just going to concentrate on enjoying what i have now, rather than what i've had in the past , or may have in the future.

Marco
04-10-2008, 18:18
I'm just going to concentrate on enjoying what i have now, rather than what i've had in the past , or may have in the future.

Sensible lad :)

The Technics is a superb turntable and quite franky makes low-mass, speed inefficient, belt-drive turntables look and sound like the toys they are :eyebrows:

Marco.

Cotlake
04-10-2008, 19:44
The Technics is a superb turntable and quite franky makes low-mass, speed inefficient, belt-drive turntables look and sound like the toys they are :eyebrows:
Marco.

Hmm, interesting. As a Garrard 401 user in a Slatedeck, obviously you'd expect me to be biased on this arguement anyway. I've spent some time listening to direct drive decks (including ownership) and actually no matter how they are fettled, they don't work for me. I simply find the sound a bit unemotional and maybe clinical, albeit in terms of speed I recognise the music is delivered bang on and accute. In contrast I can't hack the lack of speed and attack from a belt drive (I've owned several) together with the poor decay on notes as the music is presented. Now if you're a belt TT owner, without making the comparison you won't understand this statement. In my view, belt driven TT's are sloppy in sound presentation but obviously in terms of manufacturing costs they are dead cheap to produce and if you don't really know anything different, what is there to say. I thought my top end Michell was the best thing before I experimented with a properly set up Garrard. Once I'd done that I never looked back and whats more, I was quids in on the sale of the Michell over the cost of the Garrard and Slatedeck mounting.

I prefer the indirect driven option as with my Garrard or even that of a Lenco properly mounted, regardless of playing speed. In fact for me, a well mounted Lenco (I don't use one) has probably got to be the best sound per pound bargain available if you are willing to do a bit of DIY and dig into the used market. I know a properly set up second hand Lenco will outperform a current production belt drive TT in the 5000 range. I kid you not. I've heard the difference. The reason why I prefer indirect drive is that to me the sound has more emotion, maybe even more PRAT. I don't mean it is coloured. I just feel I get more enjoyment out of it in this respect.

I've never listened to (and really want to) a belt drive turntable driven by a rigid non stretch belt but I'm not aware of commercial availability. Certainly I believe rubber band belt drive is flawed because of stretch issues effecting micro-speed stability (it doesn't measure but the ears can pick it up) but I'm aware of a few DIY people using non-stretch tape for their belts (spliced video tape was the original stuff used) and I'd love to hear and form an impression on that application. Hopefully time will tell.

Best wishes,

Greg

Marco
04-10-2008, 20:04
I've spent some time listening to direct drive decks (including ownership) and actually no matter how they are fettled, they don't work for me. I simply find the sound a bit unemotional and maybe clinical...

Hi Greg,

Are you bringing your 401 to Owston? If so we can have a little 'shoot out' with my KAB 1210. It faired very well against Nick's Slatedeck SP10 at Chester. You will probably still prefer your Garrard (it's a great deck, just a bit overly rich in the bass for my tastes) but I'll lay a bet that you won't find my 1210 "unemotional" or "clinical", unless I use an unemotional or clinical cartridge ;)

I'm with you 100% on the speed stability thing - it's why I can't listen to ANY belt-drives after being used to the accuracy of D/D: the easily audible W&F and 'wavering', particular on the likes of solo piano, does my head in!

snapper
04-10-2008, 20:08
franky makes low-mass, speed inefficient, belt-drive turntables look and sound like the toys they are :eyebrows:

Marco.


Well I don't know if franky made mine,but you've convinced me to bin it.

Marco
04-10-2008, 20:13
LOL. Nah, your Linnie and you are joined at the hip, mate, and it works in your system (synergy is very important) :)

If you like I'll bring the 1210 with me when I come up in December and you can judge for yourself :smoking:

Marco.

Marco
05-10-2008, 06:46
Greg,

Was that a yes to you bringing your 401 to Owston?

;)

Marco.

John
05-10-2008, 07:21
It be intersting to hear the 401 against the 1210 so far the 401 is the best turntable i heard and this is against such great tables as the Raven AC and Brinkmann Lagrange but this maybe how i like to hear my music
I have a freind who is big into DIY and he has just modified a Orbe by putting the bearing onto a Slate and using the Verus Drive I have not heard it yet but he says its better than his slatedeck Garrard and Lenco which he has now soldhttp:
I f you go the Teres website there is an interesting piece on drive units
http://www.teresaudio.com/

I think good results is possible by all direct drive, belt and Idlier each present slightly different challenges

Mike
05-10-2008, 20:26
but I'll lay a bet that you won't find my 1210 "unemotional" or "clinical", unless I use an unemotional or clinical cartridge ;)

What like maybe a Denon 103? :lolsign: Just joshin. But be warned, like me, Greg is not a 103 fan. ;)

I'm desperately trying to make it to Owston, I just need to punch a few people a bit harder to sort out an on-call swap.

Cotlake
05-10-2008, 20:45
Hi Mike,

I'd be happy to punch (or even use some of my 'tools') a few people for you if that would help :lolsign:

Best wishes,

Greg

Mike
05-10-2008, 20:55
Hi Greg,

Maybe you could arrest them?

Oh, hang on, no that wouldn't work... They can't be on-call if their in a cell! :doh:

;)

Marco
06-10-2008, 06:58
Right enough of this hilarity! :eyebrows:

Greg, if you don't answer my question it'll be you who's going in a bloody cell :ner:

Slatedeck Garrard 401 vs. KAB-modified 1210 at Owston... Are you a man or a mouse?

I think I can hear an "eek" :lol:

Marco.

P.S Your Seasick Steve request in the music room has now been processed. Sorry for the delay!

niklasthedolphin
06-10-2008, 11:31
I have a Garrad for my 78's.
If you brought your 1210, LP12 and 401 to DK, my Systemdek IV would kick their asses.
For sure......................
:-)

"dolph"

Marco
06-10-2008, 11:46
Is that an invite, Dolph? I've always fancied a holiday in Denmark :cool:

I believe the local girlies provide some half-decent eye candy ;)

Marco.

John
06-10-2008, 15:19
I be more than willing to see how the a rim drive VPI Super scoutmaster gets on against the KAB mod 1210. Whoever wins has to pay for the Petrol and drinks
Should get my Superscoutmaster tommorow so I will need a bit of time But I am up for the challenge.
Think major issue is travelling; North Wales is far away!

aquapiranha
06-10-2008, 17:13
Bloody 'ell chaps! i was just askin'..... ;-)

No need for fistycuffs! .. anyway, the point is moot at least at the moment since I am skint.

I will however give careful thought to the situaton when I need to, but the 1210 looks good from a modding point of view, and I like modding..

John
06-10-2008, 18:01
I am interested in hearing the 1210 compaired to a decent idlier drive system I did not mean to come across as aggressive sorry

Marco
06-10-2008, 18:13
Hopefully you'll get a chance to hear the comparison, John ;)

Steve, it's all good fun, mate. Dolph is passionate about what he believes in, as am I - everyone is entitled to their opinion :)

I may be in charge but that doesn't mean people must agree with me!

Marco.

niklasthedolphin
06-10-2008, 19:49
Bloody 'ell chaps! i was just askin'..... ;-)

No need for fistycuffs! .. anyway, the point is moot at least at the moment since I am skint.

I will however give careful thought to the situaton when I need to, but the 1210 looks good from a modding point of view, and I like modding..


Hehehehe

Isn't it amazing what you can get an admin to write if you provoke him in the right way.

:lolsign::lolsign::lolsign:

"dolph"

Marco
06-10-2008, 20:48
"Provoke" away, my friend! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Cotlake
06-10-2008, 21:45
Hi Marco,

I'm not ignoring you. Simply it wasn't my intention to bring my deck this time because it had the outing last time and having attended most fests like this since they started, I recognise it is important to move on and concentrate on the new kit people are introducing.

This time I expect many will want to here Nick's Slatedeck SP10. I certainly do. Any comparison between our decks will have limited value because they are mounted differently, might require different supports and certainly the arms and cartridges are very different so I'm not sure what would be acheived outside of "my deck is better (different) from your deck!" etc. Even if we set a criteria of assessing purely on emotional presentation (which is what I call it but to another this would be meaningless) the differences would have little significance. The only conclusion the listener could come to would be what their preference is between our decks when demonstrated outside of their proper listening place. I rather feel that in these circumstances, a competition is not appropriate because that is exactly what Owstfest is not about.

If you want to make a comparison, I suggest maybe you visit me or I visit you and we do a private thing with maybe some invited guests (mini fest). Generally this is the best way to analyse and compare kit. I know you did it with DAC's last time and whilst a clear hieracy of performance was generally agreed, the results actually do not match the satisfaction people feel at home. Stanley's DAC didn't do that well in the test, but clearly as evidenced on numerous posts here, alot having made home comparisons think a Beresford is the bargain of the year. I'd not argue with that.

You'll have to argue a bit more to convince me to bring it :) Remember, Slate is a pretty fragile material. Transportation is a risk every time and replacement now would cost me twice what I paid for it a few years ago.

Best wishes,

Greg

aquapiranha
06-10-2008, 22:16
It's OK chaps, I realise nobody was getting shirty, it is all just banter, as it should be!

In honesty I like the look of idler drives, particularly the likes of 124 / 401's but I have never had the pleasure. I have heard the likes of NAS and Linn, all fine decks. Unfortunatly in my position my choice becomes thinner as the dreaded Christmas approaches..

One thing that has always interested me though, and a little OT, is why parallel tracking arms are not more common, I mean, they do not need to be too expensive given that most of the materials are readily available, and from a technical point of view they seem to stand up well.

I just had a thought, what about a 1210 and a souther.... :lol:

purite audio
06-10-2008, 22:30
No bass.

John
07-10-2008, 07:21
One thing that has always interested me though, and a little OT, is why parallel tracking arms are not more common, I mean, they do not need to be too expensive given that most of the materials are readily available, and from a technical point of view they seem to stand up well.

[/QUOTE]

My experience of the Parallel tracking arm is a total thumbs up I heard people complain about Bass but the arm I am using does not have these issues I had a SME4 before silver wired and the Terminator beats it in every department including Bass It works well on Idlier drives and even 1210s
http://www.trans-fi.com/clientscorner.htm
For me sounds per buck this beats anything and I kid you not this arm will compete with a Phamton
I think most people see these arms as awkward with noise coming out from the air holes etc but the only noise I have is from the pump which is not to bad and can in most cases be eaisly put out the way I hear no noise from the arm itself due to the weight of it .
Keith "purite audio" when you come over you can hear for yourself about the bass on the arm I use

Marco
07-10-2008, 08:44
Hi Greg,


I'm not ignoring you. Simply it wasn't my intention to bring my deck this time because it had the outing last time and having attended most fests like this since they started, I recognise it is important to move on and concentrate on the new kit people are introducing.


Yep, you're right but our little 'shoot-out' could be part of the 'experimental activities' on the Sunday rather than on the main event on the Saturday where there are other priorites as you correctly state. I'm sure we could fit it in then. Will you be there on the Sunday?


This time I expect many will want to here Nick's Slatedeck SP10. I certainly do. Any comparison between our decks will have limited value because they are mounted differently, might require different supports and certainly the arms and cartridges are very different so I'm not sure what would be acheived outside of "my deck is better (different) from your deck!"


LOL. It's not about that, or 'competitions'. I fully realise that this wouldn't be appropriate at Owston. It's about both of us perhaps learning something new. I've had fairly scant exposure to a 401, certainly a nice one like yours, and I don't think you've ever heard a KAB-modified 1210. Therefore it would be good for us to become better acquainted with both.

As an aside, I'll be bringing my 1210 anyway to let those who couldn't make it to Chester hear it against Nick's SP10. The decision on what to do with the 401 is yours :)


If you want to make a comparison, I suggest maybe you visit me or I visit you and we do a private thing with maybe some invited guests (mini fest). Generally this is the best way to analyse and compare kit.


Sounds good! We can discuss this at Owston :smoking:


I know you did it with DAC's last time and whilst a clear hieracy of performance was generally agreed, the results actually do not match the satisfaction people feel at home. Stanley's DAC didn't do that well in the test, but clearly as evidenced on numerous posts here, alot having made home comparisons think a Beresford is the bargain of the year. I'd not argue with that.


The Beresford is undoubtedly the bargain of the year, and I respect Stan and rate his designs highly at their respective level. What happens with hi-fi is that discerning people are always able to recognise a superior piece of kit when they hear it, even in an unfamiliar environment. However, once home, our ears quickly readjust to the different presentation of something else, and what was considered superior before fades fairly quickly in our memory and we simply get used to and enjoy our own equipment whether it's inferior to what we heard before or not. Then once the pleasure of our home environment is factored in, together with an acoustically superior room, better set-up, etc, any fading memories of what, for example, my Sony DAC did in a pub hall are long forgotten, and rightly so!


You'll have to argue a bit more to convince me to bring it :) Remember, Slate is a pretty fragile material. Transportation is a risk every time and replacement now would cost me twice what I paid for it a few years ago.


LOL. Well I've done my best, so the rest is up to you. If you don't decide to bring it, given what you've written above, I'll understand and respect your decision.

Marco.

niklasthedolphin
07-10-2008, 19:41
I believe this site should change name from Art of Sound to Forum for mad Technics TT Lovers.

"dolph"

Marco
07-10-2008, 21:09
What about this for a name: "Save our Systemdeks from blandness and mediocrity"? :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

sastusbulbas
11-10-2008, 15:11
I owned a Systemdek IIX and at the same time I had two Technics 1200's and a Sony Direct drive.
Even with better set up, cart and such, the Systemdek was never quite as good as the 1200 in my opinion. the 1200 is far better engineered and much more precise. The IIX was overpriced wood with a basic motor.

My own Systemdek ended up on a Mana Reference table with a Ringmat, these helped a little, but the 1200 still proved better even plonked on the floor. By comparison the IIX sounded like the speakers were behind heavy curtains and the bass drivers had knitted woolly cones with pom poms for dust caps.

I ended up going to a Michell Gyro SE, with a QC and SME 309, then an SME IV. I still think the 1200 is a superb deck, and it has something teh Gyro does not woth regard to timing and bass. I won't get rid of the Gyro, but do want a new 1200 with an SME 309 or IV to run in my second system.

Marco
12-10-2008, 10:58
Steve, I aways new you had class and a discerning pair of ears :)

Btw, nice to see you posting again. It's been too long since your last visit!

Marco.

JAMesRock
02-12-2008, 17:00
Hi,

Do any of you know which would be better between a Systemdek 2X2 and a Systemdek IV? I have owed a modded Danish version of the Systemdek II and a Systemdek IIX and I now own the Systemdek 2X2 with a reinforced base and extra damping. It is truly far better than the II or IIX but I'm wondering if the IV would be an upgrade and why.

I actually just sold my Michell Gyro SE with an HR PSU because the 2X2 sounded much better in comparisons using the same arm and cartridge. I couldn't make sense of this as I thought it was obvious the Gyro would blow the Systemdek away. I got some second opinions and it turned out to be no contest. Everyone prefered the Systemdek. Now I'm encouraged to compare a Technics 1200. Is the 1210 as good?

Marco
02-12-2008, 21:11
Hi James,

Welcome to AOS :)

Dolph is the man for Systemdeks, so I'm sure he'll come along soon and offer advice.

I prefer the 1210 but I guess it depends on what you consider as "good". What system are you running, what type of sound do you like and what sort of music do you listen to?

Once I know that information I may be able to help further.

Marco.

pure sound
02-12-2008, 22:57
Even the stock IIx would see off many of the well regarded and more expensive suspended decks. It had alot going for it. Extruded ali subchassis, it hung from its springs rather than perched on them, it had the same premotec motor as was used in the LP12, and if you changed the platter from glass to acrylic and fitted an ali armboard you had a poor mans (but better made) Pink Triangle!

The IV is a much more heavyweight affair with a vinyl/metal laminate platter but a similarly well executed suspension. You'd need to compare. It might not have the brio of the IIx.

The Technics gives an altogether different presentation perhaps trading some of the air afforded by the sprung suspension for far greater precision, speed constancy and much better bass. But I could quite understand someone being very fond of the way the IIx plays. I've a very high regard for it. Both my brother and my 2 sisters all still use IIx's I obtained for them & they all still sound fine to me.

niklasthedolphin
03-12-2008, 13:33
Even the stock IIx would see off many of the well regarded and more expensive suspended decks. It had alot going for it. Extruded ali subchassis, it hung from its springs rather than perched on them, it had the same premotec motor as was used in the LP12, and if you changed the platter from glass to acrylic and fitted an ali armboard you had a poor mans (but better made) Pink Triangle!

The IV is a much more heavyweight affair with a vinyl/metal laminate platter but a similarly well executed suspension. You'd need to compare. It might not have the brio of the IIx.

The Technics gives an altogether different presentation perhaps trading some of the air afforded by the sprung suspension for far greater precision, speed constancy and much better bass. But I could quite understand someone being very fond of the way the IIx plays. I've a very high regard for it. Both my brother and my 2 sisters all still use IIx's I obtained for them & they all still sound fine to me.


I have the Dunlop Systemdek IV in a slightly modified version and I am very satisfied with the performance.

It will propably make a riat, but I had the 1210 through the testing many years ago and let it on to other owners because I find it a low-end entry level TT............ sonically.

I have far more deep frequency response with far more control in my Systemdek IV than any original or heavily modified 1210 ever could get close to.

I used to have the IIx as well and I am the one to set it up and allign it for three of my friends at every Cartridge or arm change.

I have yet to hear a sub 10.000,- TT outperform the one I have. What would you do but keep it?

Is there anything I can be helpful with about the Systemdeks?..........or anything else related?

"dolph"

Marco
03-12-2008, 13:56
I have far more deep frequency response with far more control in my Systemdek IV than any original or heavily modified 1210 ever could get close to.


LOL! Dolphy darling, how would you know if you've never heard one?

Me thinks you're being rather presumptuous! ;)

James, let's return to the real world... If you can tolerate the annoying speed stability issues of (any) low-mass belt-drive turntable, Systemdek included, then you might like its musical presentation which as Guy says is pretty good. It is however not in the class Dolph makes out. In my experience, a modified 1210 is markedly superior in all areas. I can go into more detail if you wish and provide some genuine insight on the matter.

Marco.

niklasthedolphin
03-12-2008, 15:31
LOL! Dolphy darling, how would you know if you've never heard one?

Me thinks you're being rather presumptuous! ;)

James, let's return to the real world... If you can tolerate the annoying speed stability issues of (any) low-mass belt-drive turntable, Systemdek included, then you might like its musical presentation which as Guys says is pretty good. It is however not in the class Dolph makes out. In my experience, a modified 1210 is markedly superior in all areas. I can go into more detail if you wish and provide some genuine insight on the matter.

Marco.

You never heard the Dunlop IV, I take, and for sure not in my modified version.
And then you wouldn't know if I heard the KAB or not.

So I think YOU are rather presumptuous! ;)

"dolph"

Marco
03-12-2008, 15:42
Dolph, I think it's best if we just agree to differ on this matter and let James make up his own mind :)

Marco.