"Decibel" for Mac

[sburrell]

Hi,

It's been a long time since I posted here last, but recently I've been testing Decibel for music playback, and I wondered if anyone had had any experience with it. Either way, here's the link:

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/37573/decibel

I suppose the two highlight features are its ability to play all music entirely from RAM, and its ability to grant itself unique access to your chosen output - ie. nothing else can send a signal through that output if Decibel is launched.

I've been listening to it through my signature set-up and I'm enjoying it a lot, more than I would through iTunes I think.

So, any opinions?

[Beechwoods]

Sounds like it's got some interesting features. I'll check it out.

[Yoga]

Also check out Fidelia (app store). Audio wise, a lot of people have found it come up trumps.

[jantheman]

Why is it that I cant tell the difference with Mac apps but on a PC they seem obvious.....wierd!

[roob]

I tried the 15 day demo of Fidelia and found it to be very good, nice interface and easy to use.

[sburrell]

Somebody with claims to a high-quality system posted a review on MacUpdate under the name of Ozron, claiming that, having tried many of the alternatives including Fidelia, Decibel was the one that produced the best output. I actually wondered if it was by someone from here. Here's the link:

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/37573/decibel

Scroll down and their post is from 10th April. He even claims to have tried Amarra, which I think is $295 (down from $995).

By the way, try not to get too incensed by the attitude of Echorob while you're on that page :)

[allsorts]

FWIW, For anyone intererested in Music Player software alternatives to itunes, I'm quite taken with 'Audirvana', a free music player for Mac OS10.6 . Its still at beta stage with frequent updates, but using my MacMini with 8gbs ram, I just drag anything i want from my itunes library into the Audirvana playlist and turn off itunes. Even with my well worn hearing i can detect an improvement over itunes. It has Hog facility and you can dedicate as much ram as you like to the player,(the more the better).
It also gives a range of preferences, upscaling, integer mode and other options. The interface is basic (suits me fine);if you have existing playlists in itunes its quick and simple to drag and drop, wait for it to copy and off you go. There is a useful thread over at Computer Audiophile or google it. Its a work in progress but after 3 months of using it I'm a believer and sent the fella a donation for his efforts.
:)

[lovejoy]

Why is it that I cant tell the difference with Mac apps but on a PC they seem obvious.....wierd!

I find that this depends on the age of your Mac. If you have a model which features an Intel Core2Duo and an NVidia chipset, everything sounds pretty much of a muchness via MacOS - There's also a USB bug that means any USB DAC sounds a bit poor because every 16384'th sample is zero.

A nice shiny new Mac with an i3/i5/i7 processor will blow the old ones out of the water as they seem to have ironed out the issues. I've recently tried a swanky new top of the range MacBook Pro and it sounds STUNNING running Audirvana in Integer mode.

[aBe]

I've already stowed the rest, including Decibel ..

Audirvana - is my current fave and the only player for my Macbook Pro at this mo. Until I stumble upon something better (which I do hope I will) Audirvana is here to stay..

[Slippershod]

I find that this depends on the age of your Mac. If you have a model which features an Intel Core2Duo and an NVidia chipset, everything sounds pretty much of a muchness via MacOS - There's also a USB bug that means any USB DAC sounds a bit poor because every 16384'th sample is zero.

:uhho: oooer ... rich, can you elaborate on this - I've googled to no avail.

I've an imac with a core2duo and (I think) an nvidia chipset (the 'serial ATA is shown as such) ... and am using an usb soundcard...

could you post a link explaining the issue in more detail?

[jantheman]

I find that this depends on the age of your Mac. If you have a model which features an Intel Core2Duo and an NVidia chipset, everything sounds pretty much of a muchness via MacOS - There's also a USB bug that means any USB DAC sounds a bit poor because every 16384'th sample is zero.

A nice shiny new Mac with an i3/i5/i7 processor will blow the old ones out of the water as they seem to have ironed out the issues. I've recently tried a swanky new top of the range MacBook Pro and it sounds STUNNING running Audirvana in Integer mode.

Well my mac mini 2010 has a core 2 duo but so does my pc. Maybe it is the os but you would be using the same os on any other mac as well so it all seems a little confusing. I dont use the usb...I prefer toslink. Anyways I gave up worrying about this ages ago...never found a proper explaination...its just one of those imponderables.....:lol:

[Slippershod]

...its just one of those imponderables.....:lol:

probably, and maybe lovejoy was joking (i.e. the 'every 1648th is a zero...' bit) but somehow I suspect not...

any further info LJ would be much appreciated... :)

[Slippershod]

sorry to bump this - but can anyone else elaborate on the 'issue' Lovejoy mentioned a couple of posts above (macs with core2duo processors and usb soundcards)?

I don't think he was joshing - but can't google anything :(

[purite audio]

Macs aRe bit perfect, their USB output is usually limited to 24/96 unless you go for an Async USB dac like the M2Tech 'Young', the only bug in I tunes is that if you have a playlist with files of mixed sampling rate ( 44.1 96 176 etc ) Itunes will upsample or downsample everything to 24/96, unless you close ITunes change the sample rate in Audio Midi and then re open ITunes playback software such as Amarra and PM get around this bug.
Keith.

[Slippershod]

thanks for that Keith - I know you're well up in this stuff ( to put it mildly) so guess I should leave it there, but, just to be sure, you have read post 8 above by lovejoy (rich)?

[purite audio]

USB Bug! Never heard of that, or that a new i7 core will sound better? I am afraid I don't have a brand new MBp to hand to test that theory, I use Amarra and their 'cache' feature which loads everything into RAM, the only thing I have heard better is the new Weiss MAN server.
KR Keith.

[Werner Berghofer]

Never heard of that, or that a new i7 core will sound better?

Me too: I have never heard of this alleged USB bug, and I can assure you that there’s absolutely no difference in USB playback quality between my Mac mini (Intel Core 2 Duo) and my 17" Macbook Pro (Intel Core i7).

[Slippershod]

thanks again, Keith, and Werner ... hmmm, I wonder if Rich was having a bit of a larf - didn't sound like it.

c'mon Lovejoy, can you help us out ...? :)

[lovejoy]

Sorry for the delay. I've not been around all weekend.

I've had 3 Macs, all from the same vintage - Core2Duo/NVidia chipset machines dating from 2007. I first ran into the USB bug when I bought an M2Tech HiFace when, for the first few versions of drivers, I'd get nothing but pops and clicks every second - it sounded a bit like playing a scratched CD. Thankfully Keith at Purite and the guys at M2Tech were onto it and provided a fix. I was one of a very small number of people reporting this problem so the issue seems to be with a certain issue of Mac. If it's any help to anyone I have issue 3.1 of Macbook Pro - I'd have to check on the Mac Mini and the iMac but they all had the same problem (and the same hardware).

The problem re-emerged when I started using Audirvana, but only in Integer mode (and I know that my Audiolab 8200 supports Integer mode as it plays without issue on the brand new i7 Macbook Pro). So it would seem that the problem is only audible with integer mode (which I believe is what the HiFace is doing too) but I also believe that there is a knock-on effect with digital audio output in general with this particular vintage of Mac.

I wouldn't panic too much as I seem to have just been VERY unlucky with my choice of Macs and if you're not hearing any difference between i7 and Core2Duo then you're not affected but the differences (via optical or USB) between the i7 and my Core2Duo units are blazingly obvious.

For a bit of a sanity check I built a 'Hackintosh' using an old PC I had going spare - Once again, it's pretty much the same hardware (processor and chipset) that my older Macs are based on.. Guess what? Exactly the same problems! Clicking in integer mode and generally tonally flat and lifeless sound from iTunes or Audirvana in normal mode. So I removed 'HackOS' and installed Ubuntu and now it's sounding stunning!

There is mention of this particular bug over on the Audirvana thread on Computer Audiophile, but I'll stress again that I am one of a VERY small number of people who has experienced it (so it may even be in a certain batch of chipsets and not a problem throughout the range).

Sorry to be a bit of a scaremongerer.

[Slippershod]

hi Rich - apologies, I've sent you a PM, not realising you'd posted the above, for which many thanks.

not sure I'm absolutely clear however: if yer Mac's affected, will you clearly hear (i.e. pops and distortion) the problem (in 'integer' mode at least), or is it more of a tonal (flat) thing as you seem to be saying towards the end ... ?

one weird thing I've found with my emu tracker pre, is that it tends, once it's been on a while, to develop an 'undersea echo' type effect with all sound (system / recording etc), and needs a turn-off and reboot to correct... wonder if it's connected to the issue you've raised?

[lovejoy]

one weird thing I've found with my emu tracker pre, is that it tends, once it's been on a while, to develop an 'undersea echo' type effect with all sound (system / recording etc), and needs a turn-off and reboot to correct... wonder if it's connected to the issue you've raised?

That's not an effect I've suffered. My main complaint with all of the 2007 Macs I tried was that under normal playback conditions i.e. iTunes straight into the DAC it just sounded flat and lifeless. All the sounds were there and there were no odd effects, it just wasn't engaging me musically. The clicking and popping was introduced by switching to Integer mode either by the use of Audirvana or using the HiFace.

Now it's possible that these issues are unrelated but there's certainly a correlation between the Macs I've used that sound poor (i.e. they all produce pops using Integer mode) and the ones that sound really good (which don't produce the pops).

[Slippershod]

ah, right. that's a good way of checking (objective followed by subjective). thanks, Rich.

[sburrell]

I've already stowed the rest, including Decibel ..

Audirvana - is my current fave and the only player for my Macbook Pro at this mo. Until I stumble upon something better (which I do hope I will) Audirvana is here to stay..

Interesting. Which other players have you tried? If you think Audirvana beats Decibel, is it purely based on the sound quality, or the additional fact that it's free and your Decibel trial had expired (just checking ;) )?

Audirvana definitely sounds like a gander then. I know you guys sometimes have gatherings - how about someone set up a high-quality blind listening test to compare and contrast? The results would be much referred to I'm sure (especially if Amarra were to be included)! :)

[purite audio]

A free two week demonstration version of Amarra is available, just visit the Sonic Studio Amarra website.
Keith.

[sburrell]

Just FYI: Integer mode is NOT supported on the built-in optical out on any Mac computer. I got this straight from the horse's mouth.

[Millzee60]

Just FYI: Integer mode is NOT supported on the built-in optical out on any Mac computer. I got this straight from the horse's mouth.

Not sure I understand this. Based on the comments here I've just installed this on my C2D MacBook Pro with the Integer option selected. Does what you're saying mean that even though Integer is selected, it's not actually working in Integer mode?

Regards,

Colin.

[sburrell]

Here's the exact question and answer between the developer and I:


Hi,

I'm just trying out your open-source music player; my first impressions are that it is well worth downloading! :)

However, I have a question: I have Integer Mode checked in the Preferences, but the icon for it on the amplifier remains dimmed out, and if I hover the mouse cursor over it, a tooltip appears saying that, "Integer Mode is OFF". Is this just a visual error, or is integer mode genuinely not being applied?

My system: Mac Pro 2010, OS X 10.6.7, Audirvana 0.9d (built-in digital audio out selected), optical cable to outboard DAC (Beresford TC-7510 Mk6 - 24bit/96kHz D/A).

Merci,

S.
Response:

Hi,
It is not applied. The toslink output of all the mac models does not handle integer mode.

Best,
Damien

[aBe]

Interesting. Which other players have you tried? If you think Audirvana beats Decibel, is it purely based on the sound quality, or the additional fact that it's free and your Decibel trial had expired (just checking ;) )?

Audirvana definitely sounds like a gander then. I know you guys sometimes have gatherings - how about someone set up a high-quality blind listening test to compare and contrast? The results would be much referred to I'm sure (especially if Amarra were to be included)! :)

I've indeed tried almost all the available players around - Cog, Songbird, Vox, Decibel, Pure Music etc...except Amarra.

Audirvana is the one that sounds the best to my ears, with Pure Music trailing not far behind. IMO, the rest are 'just another music player'.

[Spur07]

I'm running the last of the powerpc G4's so no snow leopard for me. as they like to say on dragons den, i'm out! :(

[sburrell]

I've received my TASCAM FireOne firewire-attached sound device, and discovered that Audirvana's Integer Mode doesn't work with it either. I've emailed the developer for more comprehensive details on when Integer Mode can actually be used on Macs, and will post the outcome here.

[sburrell]

Hi,

Response from the Dev of Audirvana re: Integer Mode:

It depends on the device driver, and the device capabilities.
He then links to a list of currently-maintained integer mode-capable devices here (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Updated-integer-mode-capable-device-list).
A short list full of quite esoteric items.

[jeromesabbagh]

I have a 2007 mac that has the "pop" issue described above, both using Decibel in hog mode and Pure Music in integer mode. I am using a Wavelength Brick v3 DAC. I am running the DAC into a modified Fisher X-100 tube amp and Roger JR 149 speakers.

Apparently, according to Stephen Booth, the developer of Decibel, it's an Apple related issue that should be fixed in the upcoming OS 10.7 ("Lion"). Let's hope that's the case. Using a USB hub fixes the issue for me (I am able to use hog mode without pops in Decibel though a USB hub) but could possibly degrade the sound, although I can't be sure whether that's the case or not.

I find that Decibel using memory play, adjusting sample rate for best quality and hog mode ("exclusive access") through the USB hub sounds better than Decibel not using hog mode with the DAC directly plugged into the computer, i.e hog mode sounds quite a bit better to my ears, even through the added USB hub.

After trying Pure Music 1.74 and 1.8, Audirvana and iTunes, Decibel sounds the best to my ears, even through the USB hub: it's the most involving, the most coherent, the one that draws me in more and comes a step closer to live music. It is perhaps a hair bright, depending on the material played. In my opinion, iTunes is the worst of the bunch by quite a bit but it could be related to my computer if I understand the above posts.

[alfie2902]

Is it this Desibel you're talking about ;)

http://ratkje.no/current-projects/desibel-the-worlds-largest-mobile-horn-system/

[Slippershod]

I have a 2007 mac that has the "pop" issue described above, both using Decibel in hog mode and Pure Music in integer mode. I am using a Wavelength Brick v3 DAC. I am running the DAC into a modified Fisher X-100 tube amp and Roger JR 149 speakers.

Apparently, according to Stephen Booth, the developer of Decibel, it's an Apple related issue that should be fixed in the upcoming OS 10.7 ("Lion"). Let's hope that's the case. Using a USB hub fixes the issue for me (I am able to use hog mode without pops in Decibel though a USB hub) but could possibly degrade the sound, although I can't be sure whether that's the case or not.




well, b*gger me, after the latest mac os update, I've now got random digital 'pops' both with a usb sound/card and the built-in one, using a core2duo imac ... :(

I'm not actually using 'decibel' but the pops are consistently there regardless of programme being used (reaper, vinyl studio, quicktime player etc).


the usb was worse, as the pops were being recorded when ripping vinyl :steam:

line-in rca s to mini-jack cable seems to be avoiding that, although I still get the pops, as mentioned, when playing back.


resulting files play back as clean as a whistle on a windows 7 laptop.

good old apple. :rolleyes:

[Yoga]

Did you update to 10.6.8?

[Slippershod]

yes, that's the one - at least that's what 'about this mac' is telling me.

I'm quite certain the problem started with this update.