Beresford: TC-7520SEG vs TC-7510

[Bras]

I have had a Beredsford 7510 the last 2 years and thought it was time to make an upgrade to the lastest Caiman with the Gator board since everyone only have had nice words to say about it.
So I ordered the new model TC-7520SEG and thought it would sound better than the old one .... but I unfortunately I got very disappointed. After 8 days of burn-in the sound is still better on the old one.
The midrange sounds quite equal on the models but bass is deeper and treble is more "detailed" on the old one....like a more 3D-sound and detailed.

At the moment I have both dacs connected to my SB Touch so it is very easy to make a switch over between the dacs to make a comparison.
I have ofcourse tried to switch the cables and coax/optical inputs....but still the good old 7510 beats the 7520SEG.

I really hope burn-in will get it to sound better but I doubt.

[Marco]

Hi "Bras",

Welcome to AoS :)

First of all, we need your REAL first name included somewhere on your profile, unless of course your parents named you "tweaker" ;)

Secondly, all new members are required to pop into the Welcome area and introduce themselves to our community, by telling what their system is and what music they like.

Therefore, could you please attend to this on your next visit?

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

[WAD62]

I have had a Beredsford 7510 the last 2 years and thought it was time to make an upgrade to the lastest Caiman with the Gator board since everyone only have had nice words to say about it.
So I ordered the new model TC-7520SEG and thought it would sound better than the old one .... but I unfortunately I got very disappointed. After 8 days of burn-in the sound is still better on the old one.
The midrange sounds quite equal on the models but bass is deeper and treble is more "detailed" on the old one....like a more 3D-sound and detailed.

At the moment I have both dacs connected to my SB Touch so it is very easy to make a switch over between the dacs to make a comparison.
I have ofcourse tried to switch the cables and coax/optical inputs....but still the good old 7510 beats the 7520SEG.

I really hope burn-in will get it to sound better but I doubt.

I'm in no position to compare and contrast, as I only have a TC-7510 Mk6/4, one of Stan's old stock picked up as a bargain.

However as a TC-7510 owner your comments do give me a nice warm feeling, either that or I've forgotten to go to the toilet again ;)

[Yoga]

I'm in no position to compare and contrast, as I only have a TC-7510 Mk6/4, one of Stan's old stock picked up as a bargain.

However as a TC-7510 owner your comments do give me a nice warm feeling, either that or I've forgotten to go to the toilet again ;)

:lolsign:

Hahaha!

Bras: It may be that you're used to, and prefer the sound of your older unit. There is no objective better with regards to sound. It's entirely subjective and personal, just as the love/hate with marmite :¬)

I'm sure Stan would be happy to offer a refund if you're unhappy, the service he offers is second to none.

[Bras]

:lolsign:

Hahaha!

Bras: It may be that you're used to, and prefer the sound of your older unit. There is no objective better with regards to sound. It's entirely subjective and personal, just as the love/hate with marmite :¬)

I'm sure Stan would be happy to offer a refund if you're unhappy, the service he offers is second to none.

Yoga, I fully understand what you are saying and I am a patient guy so I still wait for it to "open up " - or to get used to it.
Anyhow, so far 5 of my friends have been listening to it and they all preferred the sound of the 7510. Their comments are "missing dynamic"
Before I bought the TC-7520SEG I also tried the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC ... but I shipped it back after a week and thought if I just got a new Beredsford then it would at least "to my ears" sound as good as the old one.

[Yoga]

Yoga, I fully understand what you are saying and I am a patient guy so I still wait for it to "open up " - or to get used to it.
Anyhow, so far 5 of my friends have been listening to it and they all preferred the sound of the 7510. Their comments are "missing dynamic"
Before I bought the TC-7520SEG I also tried the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC ... but I shipped it back after a week and thought if I just got a new Beredsford then it would at least "to my ears" sound as good as the old one.

8 days of burn in is nearly 200 hours, I'm pretty sure the sound you have now will be indicative of the 'final' sound.

However, email Stan and make him aware of the situation and your thoughts. He'll be able to give you a much better idea of expected performance/burn in ratios.

[CanDAC]

[QUOTE=Bras;216525]I have had a Beredsford 7510 the last 2 years and thought it was time to make an upgrade to the lastest Caiman with the Gator board since everyone only have had nice words to say about it.
So I ordered the new model TC-7520SEG and thought it would sound better than the old one .... but I unfortunately I got very disappointed. After 8 days of burn-in the sound is still better on the old one.
The midrange sounds quite equal on the models but bass is deeper and treble is more "detailed" on the old one....like a more 3D-sound and detailed.

QUOTE]

Were you running it 24/7 for thos 8 days? The truth is the Caiman needs a lot of burn-in time. In my case, I can still continue hear subtle improvements
even though mine has gone well past the oft quoted 200 hour mark.

[Werner Berghofer]

bass is deeper and treble is more "detailed"

I don’t know the TC-7510, but the quoted words describe pretty good my first impressions as I switched from a TC-7520 to a Caiman with Gator audio PCB. Compared to a standard TC-7520 a gatorized Caiman offers much more bass, power, punch, channel separation, detail resolution and dynamics. Even after upgrading my TC-7520 DACs with Gator audio PCBs and Gator PSUs I definitely prefer the Caiman.

I doubt that such superstitious voodoo as burn-in for electronic equipment exists, but even when used directly out of the box at least for my ears the Caiman does sound much better. For me there’s no way to return to earlier models of Stan’s DAC once you’ve heard a Caiman.

As already other forum members suggested: Get in touch with Stanley.

[Butuz]

What an interesting thread! In my opinion there are subtle but definate differences between my 7520 with op amps and my 7520 with passive mod. I think I would say the op amps give a more normal low end hifi sound the type you would get straight from most cd players under £300. But with the passive or gator mod it takes on a whole new level of instrument separation and detail. This could be a sound that the OP doesn't actually favour?? In which case he peters the old model??

I would love to hear a Caiman gator against my passive 7520.

Butuz

Butuz

[Bras]

What an interesting thread! In my opinion there are subtle but definate differences between my 7520 with op amps and my 7520 with passive mod. I think I would say the op amps give a more normal low end hifi sound the type you would get straight from most cd players under £300. But with the passive or gator mod it takes on a whole new level of instrument separation and detail. This could be a sound that the OP doesn't actually favour?? In which case he peters the old model??

I would love to hear a Caiman gator against my passive 7520.

Butuz

Butuz

Please note that the comparison I made was between the old 7510 and the gatorized Caimain so I actually have no idea how the 7520 without gatorboard sounds

[Bras]

Hi folks

First, thanks a lot for you inputs :-)

This evening I turned off the TV and started listening to music again and when my girlfriend
did not have the option to watch the TV she also started to listen to the music. She did not know which of the DACS that were playing but she also picked the 7510 as the best sounding one with the following comments:

- more detailed
- better bass
- better treble
- better midrange
- more open sound ( not hiding inside the speakers as the new one )

I will still give the new one a week more to "open up" before contacting Stan ...but if anyone else have had a chance to make a compare between the 7510 and the 7520 (gatorized or not) I would like to hear their comments.

Please do not misunderstand me the TC-7520SEG sounds fine but the TC-7510 sounds GREAT when compared.

PS: just wonder if it is due to DAC that is used ( guess it was not the Wolfson DAC that was used in the 7510 model )

[Labarum]

I have both a 7510 and a Caiman now with Gator.

I find the 7510 is bettered by the Caiman, which takes another step forward with the Gaitor Mod.

And I to am sceptical about "burn in" except for the short time it may take for new electrolytic capacitors to form fully on initial power up.

[StanleyB]

The Gator was not designed to produce more bass and more treble. It was designed to amplify the low signal of the passive mod. And the passive mod was designed to give a more natural and analogue sound with less of a digital feel to it.

[Labarum]

Absolutely, Stan, and my Caiman-Gator does a superb job of driving my Quad 405-2.

[barry-potter]

The Gator was not designed to produce more bass and more treble. It was designed to amplify the low signal of the passive mod. And the passive mod was designed to give a more natural and analogue sound with less of a digital feel to it.

Does that mean that the seg is is passive?

[StanleyB]

Does that mean that the seg is is passive?
No, it;s amplified and buffered.

[leo]

The 7510 was and still is a great little dac, I found the Gator Caiman to be more mature sounding, more realistic .
Both will suit many tastes out there ;)

[Butuz]

Out of interest Bras what does the rest of your system consist of?

Butuz

[Bras]

Hi Butuz

The system consist of:

Amplifier: Nad C375bee ----> http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-375BEE-Integrated-Amplifier

SB Touch with home-made PSU ( SB touch modified with Soundcheck mods )

Speakers: B&W 683 with QED silver anniversary XT cables - biwire

The 2 dacs are connected via the fixed outputs

Music: ripped in flac format level 0 with DBpoweramp


I must admit it is not a highend system but absolutely not a low end either.

The 7520SEG sounds to me more like the build in dac in the SB Touch and with the 7510 you hear the bass gets deeper and more clarity and openess in the sound.

As other ones mentioned the sound from the 7520SEG should sound more analog / realistic but unfortunately I am hearing the opposite ( maybe I should visit an ear-doctor).

Anyhow I need to mention when I have been listening via head-phones ( very seldom ) I think I would prefer the sound from the 7520.

Cheers,

[leo]

Just an idea but did you try removing the Nads shorting links (pre-out to amp in) and using the dacs variable outputs to drive the amp input direct? quite a nice feature to see on an integrated . just wondered how the dacs pre-amp compared against the Nads pre-amp

[Bras]

Hi Leo

I already thought about trying this but I have not yet found the time to do it...and it makes it more difficult to compare between the pre-amps as you need to swap the cables and then you cannot do an immediate compare.

But I will try it one day...( then it is a petty there is no remote for the dac if it sounds better )

Cheers,

[Bras]

Hello Folks

After several weeks of burn in the 7510 still is my favorite....so the 7520SEG I will give my son to play with.

Soundstage / sound out of speakers is so much to preferable from the 7510 that I can note live without it.
Maybe the sound from the 7520SEG is more analoge.....but this so-called analoge sound really miss the engagement and sound more like there is a curtain in front of the speakers.
I guess I won't be popular within this forum.......but what I am trying to say is that because something is newer it really don't need to be better.....at least that's my conclusion.....the music should get out of the speakers and not stay inside

Cheers, :cool:

[StanleyB]

To each his own medicine heh Bras;). The TC-7510 is still selling strong in some markets, where its low price versus high performance ticks the right boxes for the many users. I just hope that its replacement with only a fixed output (i.e. no headphone and variable output) will be just as popular :).

[Labarum]

To each his own medicine heh Bras;). The TC-7510 is still selling strong in some markets, where its low price versus high performance ticks the right boxes for the many users. I just hope that its replacement with only a fixed output (i.e. no headphone and variable output) will be just as popular :).

Have I missed an announcement somewhere along the line, Stan?

Are there more details published on this forthcoming product?

I use my Gatorised Caiman to drive my Quad power amp directly, which it does supremely well; but as you say, each to his own.

I've got a Quad 520f being "refreshed" by DADA at this very moment. Now that should be interesting.

[StanleyB]

Have I missed an announcement somewhere along the line, Stan?

Are there more details published on this forthcoming product?

Work in progress. I tend not to release specs too far in advance. I know from bitter experience that it's possible for FE factories to use ideas and put them into production in less than three weeks after they read about an idea. But suffice to say that many TC-7510 owners and potential buyers asked for a version without headphone and variable output. So that's what I hope to have ready by Christmas.