PDA

View Full Version : Isolation platforms



wee tee cee
17-05-2011, 18:26
I took the advice of one of the prevoius posters and botched a pair of isolation platforms.2 X ikea chopping boards....some medium sized bubble wrap and a wee bit of superglue to hold it in place....doesnt sound any worse.
Tried placing my floor standers on jiffy bags instead of the spikes into the wooden floor,Im really suprised by how much it has improved the low frequencies.Bass guitars sound lovely.Asda do 5 for a pound.

Reid Malenfant
17-05-2011, 18:37
Tried placing my floor standers on jiffy bags instead of the spikes into the wooden floor,Im really suprised by how much it has improved the low frequencies.Bass guitars sound lovely.Asda do 5 for a pound.
PMSL :lolsign: As a certain American tennis player of old used to say "you cannot be serious!"

Stuff that, doesn't it muddy the midrange with the enclosure rocking back & forth on heavy bass notes? :scratch:

:lol:

wee tee cee
17-05-2011, 18:43
sounds smashin to me...

Reid Malenfant
17-05-2011, 18:47
sounds smashin to me...
Cool, as long as you are happy that's all that matters :)

I don't think it's something i'd probably consider seriously though, but if it works for you then fair dinkum ;)

Effem
17-05-2011, 20:25
I have used slices of foam pipe insulation with excellent results. A metre of it costs around a quid and you have more than enough material to put these slices under all your kit. Light components only need around an inch per slice one under each corner, whereas heavier items needs upwards of two inch slices and six are needed to stop them squashing down under the weight.

wee tee cee
18-05-2011, 08:19
I have used slices of foam pipe insulation with excellent results. A metre of it costs around a quid and you have more than enough material to put these slices under all your kit. Light components only need around an inch per slice one under each corner, whereas heavier items needs upwards of two inch slices and six are needed to stop them squashing down under the weight.

Frank,
Do you mean placing a wee sausage of insulation at each corner or cutting a slice of the tube and placing it under the feet.I might pop into B&Q and give it a go today.
Im just having a bit of fun trying different tips.
Regards Tony.

Effem
18-05-2011, 09:00
Frank,
Do you mean placing a wee sausage of insulation at each corner or cutting a slice of the tube and placing it under the feet.I might pop into B&Q and give it a go today.
Im just having a bit of fun trying different tips.
Regards Tony.

Cut into slices and you can try them under feet or directly onto the chassis of components. I put some under the granite chopping boards of my speakers and the difference was amazing

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/kernowman/Hi-Fi/pipe_isolation.jpg

wee tee cee
18-05-2011, 19:30
Cut into slices and you can try them under feet or directly onto the chassis of components. I put some under the granite chopping boards of my speakers and the difference was amazing

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/kernowman/Hi-Fi/pipe_isolation.jpg

Frank,
Stuck some under everything,sounds lovely and seperated out.What does the granite do,I have cheapo ikea pine jobs in situ at the moment with spikes on the speakers into them.Does the granite make a differnce.
Regards Tony.

Effem
18-05-2011, 20:50
Frank,
Stuck some under everything,sounds lovely and seperated out.What does the granite do,I have cheapo ikea pine jobs in situ at the moment with spikes on the speakers into them.Does the granite make a differnce.
Regards Tony.

Not a huge amount really, I am getting the same result with 18mm MDF, although I will say the granite slabs do look much nicer

Thing Fish
18-05-2011, 22:24
Snake oil...;)

DavidF
19-05-2011, 00:46
Cut into slices and you can try them under feet or directly onto the chassis of components. I put some under the granite chopping boards of my speakers and the difference was amazing

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/kernowman/Hi-Fi/pipe_isolation.jpg


Looks a good idea.

I might try that.

Welder
19-05-2011, 10:11
I thought the idea was to keep the cabinets motionless and let the drivers move the air, not have the whole cabinet swaying about :eek::doh:

Reid Malenfant
19-05-2011, 10:15
I thought the idea was to keep the cabinets motionless and let the drivers move the air, not have the whole cabinet swaying about :eek::doh:
My thoughts precisely. Dog & tail spring to mind :scratch: Dog wags tail, tail wags dog :eyebrows:

wee tee cee
21-05-2011, 17:21
Gave it a whirl.....back to the spikes.

nat8808
03-06-2011, 16:28
Snake oil...;)

I thought 'snake oil' was for when someone tries to SELL you something that didn't exist, at great expense?

You shouldn't use it to deride experimentation, innovation, thinking out of the box or going agaist common (mis-?)understanding of something!

See Max Townshend's complete range of stands, including speaker stands, that isolate components by NOT coupling them to the floor - they float freely and wobble about..


But then maybe, on second reading, the wink was to show it was not meant seriously and I should err... shut up. Sorry...

nat8808
03-06-2011, 16:37
My thoughts precisely. Dog & tail spring to mind :scratch: Dog wags tail, tail wags dog :eyebrows:

Depends on the mass of the tail compared to the rest of the dog!

If the speakers are heavy enough and the diaphram light enough then there'll be next to no movement at all - especially if the suspension under the stands has the right Q or natural frequency so as to resist or allow certain movements of the speaker.

for Max Townshend's stands, isn't the idea that the isolation filters out higher frequency vibration that will effect precise phase information in the treble etc, that create a beleivable soundstage?

Or is it the idea that it they are a lossy damper so that resonances in the cabinet don't hit the high 'mechanical impedance ' of the floor and reflect back into the cabinet again some milliseconds later?

The latter sounds to me the most likely thing, from my lay persons point of view.

Or - now some memory of a Max Townshend interview is forming - perhaps actually they move such that the speaker DOES move freely back and forth but in the same plane as the driver rather than pivoting from the anchor on the floor..

synsei
03-06-2011, 19:53
I use granite chopping blocks purchased from The Range for £10.99, each sitting on three adjustable gold plated spiked supports identical to those Effem uses under his speakers. The supports were bought off ebay for £9.99 for a set of four.

I've been using these home made equipment supports for over a year now and considering they cost me less than twenty quid each to assemble I consider them a bargain. They've made a huge difference to the sound of my kit, tightening up just about everything and vastly improving the systems imaging capabilities. Sometimes a bit of lateral thinking really does pay off :cool:

nat8808
06-06-2011, 13:34
I use granite chopping blocks purchased from The Range for £10.99, each sitting on three adjustable gold plated spiked supports identical to those Effem uses under his speakers. The supports were bought off ebay for £9.99 for a set of four.

I've been using these home made equipment supports for over a year now and considering they cost me less than twenty quid each to assemble I consider them a bargain. They've made a huge difference to the sound of my kit, tightening up just about everything and vastly improving the systems imaging capabilities. Sometimes a bit of lateral thinking really does pay off :cool:

It does! That's what I've heard a lossy, wobbly support is supposed to do..

Thing Fish
06-06-2011, 15:35
Whatever the results its sure fun trying stuff out...:)

zanash
07-06-2011, 08:30
I have used slices of foam pipe insulation with excellent results. A metre of it costs around a quid and you have more than enough material to put these slices under all your kit. Light components only need around an inch per slice one under each corner, whereas heavier items needs upwards of two inch slices and six are needed to stop them squashing down under the weight.


hay.... that was me that suggested that !!!!

worked nicely too as I recall ..


I've been plugging on about the alkternative to spikes for god knows how long now .....

spikes ...are not always best .... if your serious about your music ...its worth trying the odd alternative ...

pipe insulation donuts work ...big bubble bubble wrap ....aurelex foam mopads or the foam in block form ...

if you use your imagination there are many no cost alternatives ..


A friend even sat his speakers in big square flower tubs filled with dry sharp sand to very good effect.

ursus262
19-06-2011, 22:20
i have read this thread with great interest. i have an urge. An urge to turn to drink. :cool: :lolsign:

wee tee cee
20-06-2011, 01:20
i have read this thread with great interest. i have an urge. An urge to turn to drink. :cool: :lolsign:

Try placing your drink on a coaster made of .......Lots of good people here,Try some new ideas out.Relax,enjoy the music.

MartinT
20-06-2011, 03:33
For speakers, I've never heard better than spike/cone coupling, preferably into concrete. I agree with Mark here, you don't want your speakers rocking with the music.

For equipment, isolation is key. I have a nice spring loaded system rack now which does the job very well. However, a child's bicycle inner tube under a granite shelf works a treat.

Rare Bird
20-06-2011, 09:40
I agree with Mark here, you don't want your speakers rocking with the music.



Do you agree that the Doppler effect i'm experiencing isnt normal then? :lolsign:

MartinT
20-06-2011, 11:01
LOL - it's not about doppler effect but sympathetic vibrations from the speaker cabinet!

idc
20-06-2011, 13:44
When I had speakers (all head-fi now) I market the carpet with the spiked stand and then through the holes I screwed Philips/cross headed screws into the floor boards and rested the spikes into the head of the screw. That has the advantge of being able to ensure your stand is perfectly level by adjusting each screw.

Depending on how hairy your carpet is, you will not even see the holes if you move the speakers.

colinB
20-06-2011, 15:58
I have a hefty pair of missions on top of bookcases in my store. I tried isolating them using a slab of acoustic foam. Seemed to work very well until one fell of and hit a customer on the head. Gone back to blu tack for health and safety reasons.

Yomanze
21-06-2011, 20:08
I use depleted uranium stands welded to a solid SoundDeadSteel floor. I did remove the spikes to achieve this.

zanash
23-06-2011, 08:51
you don't want your speakers rocking with the music.


this show precisely how little you understand the physics .....

the mass of even the tinyest speaker cabinet is many times the mass of the diaphram/cone ..

what your doimg when you decouple the speakers from the floor /stand is remove the [often] bad influnces associated with coupling the energy of the speaker draining into the floor ...or more probabley isolating the speaker from the enery and vibration returning the other way ...

as ~I have said ..this doesn't work for everyone ...but if you've not heard your system isolated rather than coupled then you should give it a go ...

whats the cost of one length of thick pipe insulation cut into 50mm thick donuts ?


the equivalent .....if you like is one of those posh bmw's that have different suspension settings ..... would you just pick one and not even try the others ..damn right you would not

you'd select the most appropriate for the driving conditions ...this is precisely the same thing trying the isolating method rather than coupling method ....

go give it a go, be an individulal thinker rather than a member of the herd that believes all its told by an ignorant few ! [thats partly said in jest]

Marco
23-06-2011, 09:25
be an individulal thinker rather than a member of the herd that believes all its told by an ignorant few !


I like that, Pete - and that mentality is precisely what we promote here! :cool:

Marco.

MartinT
23-06-2011, 11:12
this show precisely how little you understand the physics .....

Now, now. Be nice.


the mass of even the tinyest speaker cabinet is many times the mass of the diaphram/cone ..

And every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When that bass cone moves forward, there will be a tendency for the cabinet to move the tiniest amount backward. The more the cabinet is pinned down the more the backward motion will be coupled to the Earth and attempt to move that backwards by a vanishingly small amount.


as ~I have said ..this doesn't work for everyone ...but if you've not heard your system isolated rather than coupled then you should give it a go ...

I have heard my speakers straight on the carpet and I don't like the sound as much as when they are on cones through to the concrete. Also, do you know what approximately 160kg will do to your pipe insulation sections?


go give it a go, be an individulal thinker rather than a member of the herd that believes all its told by an ignorant few ! [thats partly said in jest]

You don't know me well, do you? I am always experimenting, either for real or in thought. I digest opinions from everywhere, like the good engineer that I am.

Effem
23-06-2011, 12:03
That might work well for you in your situation Martin, but some poor buggers have a listening room with bouncy floorboards coupled with a huge void beneath that amplifies beautifully any speaker that is sat up on spikes directly into the floorboards. It wasn't until I put in the granite slabs and pipe insulation that helped tremendously to reduce that awful bass boom. Perhaps I should just mount the drivers straight into the floorboards and use the cellar as one girt big infinite baffle cabinet :lol:

My speakers weighed just under 30kg and 6 pipe slices held that amount of weight easily. I did initially try 4 slices which did in fact squash down flat!

Just doing some mental arithmetic how many pipe slices would it need to keep 160kg up :eyebrows: Errrrrm, lots!

Macca
23-06-2011, 12:20
Perhaps I should just mount the drivers straight into the floorboards and use the cellar as one girt big infinite baffle cabinet :lol:

!

Do it! I expect photographs and a full report in the DIY section:eyebrows:

MartinT
23-06-2011, 12:29
That might work well for you in your situation Martin, but some poor buggers have a listening room with bouncy floorboards coupled with a huge void beneath that amplifies beautifully any speaker that is sat up on spikes directly into the floorboards. It wasn't until I put in the granite slabs and pipe insulation that helped tremendously to reduce that awful bass boom. Perhaps I should just mount the drivers straight into the floorboards and use the cellar as one girt big infinite baffle cabinet :lol:

Yep - in your case, Frank, that seems like the best bet.

WAD62
23-06-2011, 15:09
I'm with Martin on this one...and yes I'm lucky Frank I have concrete floors downstairs, so it's spikes on my floorstanders through the carpet for my main system.

My other systems upstairs are on spiked wall brackets (bookshelf speakers).

However in the kitchen my speakers are heavily blutacked to the window ledge...which creates one problem where to place the source without getting feedback.

So I rigged up this little platform, a bit of scrap marble and 2 squash balls for acoustic damping, seems to do the trick...and cost me a pint for the marble :)

Effem
23-06-2011, 19:25
That is a very nice looking piece of marble there - joy to behold :)

WAD62
24-06-2011, 12:17
That is a very nice looking piece of marble there - joy to behold :)

...why thank you sir!

My mate who's in the scrap business knocked it up for pint of Bass, it's from an old work-surface I think, it's a bit rough and ready round the back but does the job.

I've yet to patent the 'half squash ball' acoustic damping system...dragon's den awaits :lol:

MartinT
24-06-2011, 12:26
Do try a child's bike inner tube under the marble as an alternative. You can even tune it with the pressure according to needs.

ursus262
13-07-2011, 17:04
I'm with Martin on this one...and yes I'm lucky Frank I have concrete floors downstairs, so it's spikes on my floorstanders through the carpet for my main system.

My other systems upstairs are on spiked wall brackets (bookshelf speakers).

However in the kitchen my speakers are heavily blutacked to the window ledge...which creates one problem where to place the source without getting feedback.

So I rigged up this little platform, a bit of scrap marble and 2 squash balls for acoustic damping, seems to do the trick...and cost me a pint for the marble :)

Where's the sink?! :lol:

ursus262
13-07-2011, 17:06
... it's a bit rough and ready round the back...


I want to say something witty, but words fail me :lol:

sq225917
13-07-2011, 17:25
I have various lashed up isolation devices. Child's bicycle inner tube under the sink cut out from the kitchen worktop under my deck and two pence pieces on sticky thick felt discs from B&Q under each of my speaker spikes.

I'm not sure how good some peoples physics and maths is, but if you think your speaker is being forced backwards by the cone movement you might like to place a glass of water on top of your speaker and see how loud it has to go before you get any ripples from the movement of the speaker...

If you do get ripples in your glass then you seriously need to think about what effect this has on the time coincidence and phase response of your speakers. I don't imagine anyone who hasn't got 15" drivers on roller skates will find any ripples though.

MartinT
13-07-2011, 21:53
I'm not sure how good some peoples physics and maths is, but if you think your speaker is being forced backwards by the cone movement you might like to place a glass of water on top of your speaker and see how loud it has to go before you get any ripples from the movement of the speaker...

And I say again, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. You don't have to see ripples for there to be cabinet motion or cabinet talk. The more firmly the cabinet is built and coupled (or grounded, to emulate a circuit) to earth the better.

jandl100
14-07-2011, 06:55
After reading positive reports of increased rez using wobbly supports years ago, I have tried some under speakers - it always seems the opposite to me; rez reduces, imaging becomes more amorphous and less well defined, dynamics reduce. I've tried this with quite a few different speakers in different rooms and it's always been the same.


Mind you, I don't like wobbly supports (even sorbothane) under electronics, either. The end result always seems to be the same as for speakers. :scratch:

Marco
14-07-2011, 08:33
I don't imagine anyone who hasn't got 15" drivers on roller skates will find any ripples though.

My Lockwoods (with 15" Tannoy MGs) are on super-duper hi-tech 1960s castors. Does that count? :eyebrows:

However, the castors sit on a layer of Mana (Soundbases), just like the Celestions did at Scalford, and they are unquestionably the most effective isolation platforms I've ever used. In fact, one of the reasons the Celestions worked so well in that hotel room, and sounded superb, was because of the Mana Soundbases.....

In over 15 years of using them, never once have speakers placed on them (or electronics, for that matter), in numerous different environments, not hugely benefited, sonically :)

Marco.

sburrell
19-07-2011, 14:43
Hey,

I just sold my pair of B&W DM601 S3s to an engineer, and he told me he swears by the isolation material they use underneath heavy equipment (such as lathes) to prevent vibrations. Not sure what it's called but those in the know should be able to direct further.

wee tee cee
04-08-2011, 14:53
Well thought I better try the granite chopping board route under my speakers.The wee pipe insulation donuts at each corner.
£13 each at Tesco,she hasnt seen them yet........Does sound quite different.
Give it a listen and report back.

synsei
05-09-2011, 01:41
:popcorn:

Rare Bird
05-09-2011, 01:47
My Lockwoods (with 15" Tannoy MGs) are on super-duper hi-tech 1960s castors. Does that count? :eyebrows:


Only if they are Kendricks :)

FidelityArt
13-05-2012, 23:48
Hi,
I've just found this thread and will strongly recommend to try one of the PAB Platforms

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/sawik1977/FA/1ST_4702.jpg

More info: http://www.fidelityart.co.uk/furniture/platforms/

Regards

Chris