SME: 309 vs V

[MaksK]

Hey guys,

I was searching the net about differences between this two arms and there is only small amount of data available.

The main difference appears to be bearings, fixed headshell, damping and easy VTA adjustment on V.

What are the opinions here, is the V worth over the 309?

My other upgrades will consist of Mike New bearing & platter alongside PH SR5 psu.

[pure sound]

I'd guess the wiring is different too.

Here are some youtube films about SME that Dean (SCIDB) posted elsewhere. They do discuss the differences between some of the current arms and are a good watch anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8tbyVRsrKM&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tbv2WEi8ao&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2xQkexHT-M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_mgFEQ05NA&feature=related

[Beobloke]

Having heard both at length on my own turntable, my ears concluded that the V is in a completely different class to the 309.

In fact, I personally prefer the M2-9 to the 309.

[Marco]

Me too! Although, I'm not a massive fan of the V....

Give me an M2-12R (with a nice SPU strapped to it), anyday! :)

Marco.

[MaksK]

Hmm, it sounds like the 309 is not such a good buy then. Stretch (tho its massive money) for V or go the Jelco 750D route, which Im not very comfortable with its delicate settings to get it right. Also the cartridge choice is more limited and I like to use (beside MC) some MM for "rounder/punchy" sound on electronic music.

@Adam

With your observation regarding sme V, did you mean with different class as different sounding or that it sonically improves over 309 so much?

damn its hard to make choices when you are spending so much in one-go :scratch:

[Tarzan]

On the subject of the V, l had one on my Techie for a while with a Lyra Helikon, and it sounded brilliant.......but just on a hifi level, no toe tapping or musicality, or not much can much be done to remedy this without spending silly money:)

[Beobloke]

@Adam

With your observation regarding sme V, did you mean with different class as different sounding or that it sonically improves over 309 so much?


I meant that the V is a vast sonic improvement over the 309. Frankly I've wanted a V ever since it came out and still occasionally lie awake at night dreaming about one. One day......

[Marco]

Lol - I can think of much better things to dream about than a bloody tonearm! :lol:

;)

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Maks,

You've got a Techy, right? Well I can tell you from experience that the Jelco 750 and it are a match made in heaven, depending on what cartridge you're using.

I missed you mentioning that, so what is it? :)

The Jelco also works wonderfully well with low-compliance MM cartridges. I have quite a few, and the partnership is symbiotic!

If, however, you're looking for a more 'hi-end' tonearm to use than the Jelco, then personally I'd have one of the new Audio Note tonearms (not the old tarted-up Rega ones), with the choice of either solid copper or silver wiring. I've heard one, and they are superb. The Current 'Arm 3' will cost you roughly the same as a 309, and will annihilate it in terms of its musical prowess.

Or, I'd look at the Funk Firm FXR or one of the new Ortofon tonearms, such as the RS212D, which I'll be buying myself later in the year. Some of those arms may not quite be engineered to SME V standard, but in my experience, they sound a damn sight more musical!

Try not to be seduced by 'desirable badges', Maks, as often you're paying more for the reputation a company has in the marketplace, than on actual audio performance itself. For me, only the latter matters.

As an aside, it's no coincidence that engineers love things that are beautifully engineered (such as SME tonearms), and often for very good reason, but sometimes their 'engineer's head' can rule their heart, and thus they miss the bigger picture! ;)

Marco.

[Marco]

For reference, here's an interesting thread on the new Audio Note tonearm:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9702

Marco.

[MaksK]

Hi Marco,

Thanks again for so much info in one post :cool:

I know you are really happy with your Jelco "high-mass" setup and I totally belive how awsome it sounds. The Ortofon RS212D arm looks proper, no doubt, but its over my budget just like the SME V at the moment.

I found good deal on ebay for new SME 309 for £800 and if I can get it imported without huge VAt & custom duty I will be more than happy.

Regarding cartridge Im using at the moment, you might laugh, is Shure M97eX which I found perfect for electronic music, low noise and somehow doesnt pick up "cracks & pops" at all and the sound is just great, uncolored with "punchy" bass all around. Im really happy with it and its cheap so i dont need to worry about the wear.

When I save more founds, Im probably going to get AT33EV for other music listening. Heard it once with MJ's Off the Wall album and I was sold (no comparission made, just loved how the album sounded).

Decisions decisons, why oh why I cant make up my mind (hint; AoS, so many great first hand info) :lolsign:

[jantheman]

Decisions decisons, why oh why I cant make up my mind (hint; AoS, so many great first hand info) :lolsign:

Dont buy an arm...buy wine and everything will sound sooo much better.:lolsign::lolsign:
:cool:

[Audioman]

It appears quite clear from the 'Factory Tour' YouTube video (part 2) that SME have standardised all bearings as ABEC7. Essentialy all 9" arms use the same armtube and bearings. I know the V has easier/better adjustment for bias/VTF/VTA but the main elements governing sound quality are similar. The main difference in standard form is internal cabling for which SME offer a reasonably priced silver wire upgrade for all their arms.

I have heard all the arms at one time another but there is usualy little or no opportunity to compare them directly under the same conditions. I would guess that the latest 309 would run the IV and V very close with a wire upgrade. If there are large differences in current output, SME must be adding a sprinkling of fairy dust to the V or there is something apparantly insignificant in the design that makes a big difference. There is certainly a large jump in cost and I am sure the V sells as much on its status value as anything. I certainly am considering an upgraded 309 for my Gyro for which it should be particularly well suited.

I am sure that Mr Cawleys claimed high sales for the 309 are more to do with its value and quality than his own promotional efforts to a few blind followers on his forum.

[MaksK]

Hmm, didnt noticed that 309 is using same ABEC7 bearings. From SME spec it seams that 309 and IV are using ABEC3 and no internal dampering.

Btw, I have opted for the V at the end, as I got really good price and I like the easy VTA adjustment for fast switching carts.

[chris@panteg]

It appears quite clear from the 'Factory Tour' YouTube video (part 2) that SME have standardised all bearings as ABEC7. Essentialy all 9" arms use the same armtube and bearings. I know the V has easier/better adjustment for bias/VTF/VTA but the main elements governing sound quality are similar. The main difference in standard form is internal cabling for which SME offer a reasonably prices silver wire upgrade for all their arms.

I have heard all the arms at one time another but there is usualy little or no opportunity to compare them directly under the same conditions. I would guess that the latest 309 would run the IV and V very close with a wire upgrade. If there are large differences in current output, SME must be adding a sprinkling of fairy dust to the V or there is something apparantly insignificant in the design that makes a big difference. There is certainly a large jump in cost and I am sure the V sells as much on its status value as anything. I certainly am considering an upgraded 309 for my Gyro for which it should be particularly well suited.

I am sure that Mr Cawleys claimed high sales for the 309 are more to do with its value and quality than his own promotional efforts to a few blind followers on his forum.

I have a very recent 309 , and previously owned the 10 inch version with the ali arm tube , I've no intention of changing it for anything else on my 1210 , i know i took a bit of flak over this recently, but i believe any doubts over its performance in the SL1200 i had , are almost entirely down to my lack of skill in setting it up to its optimum performance .

Its a very fine arm , not to everybody's taste but that's a good thing !:)

[DSJR]

I understand from engineer friends of mine that bearing hardness (for high speed use) has little application for an audio tonearm?

[prestonchipfryer]

As some of you may know I own a Series V SME. Sheer quality, not only in build but in sound. Lifetimes' want by me and would not part with it. Fantastic pick-up arm backed up by superlative service from the company. :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Been reading this with some interest. I own a V, owned loads of $hit in the past dont think I want anything else. :)

[Mike_New]

Hi Maks,


Hmm, didnt noticed that 309 is using same ABEC7 bearings. From SME spec it seams that 309 and IV are using ABEC3 and no internal dampering.

Btw, I have opted for the V at the end, as I got really good price and I like the easy VTA adjustment for fast switching carts.

You will not regret opting for the SME V.
As you know I have fitted one to my personal SL1200MK6 and in conbination with my bearing and platter the sonics are unbelievable, especially voices.
As Marco remarked SME tend to apeal to engineers, well I guess they do.

[Pete]

I had a new 309, switched to a used V, and did notice improvement in a few areas.
On the used market, I would say the cost differential between the 309 and V, make the V worth it, IMHO.

Of course the phono cable on either of these arms must be replaced with a good unit or you will never hear what these arms are offering.

[chris@panteg]

I had a new 309, switched to a used V, and did notice improvement in a few areas.
On the used market, I would say the cost differential between the 309 and V, make the V worth it, IMHO.

Of course the phono cable on either of these arms must be replaced with a good unit or you will never hear what these arms are offering.

What would you suggest as an upgrade, i have been thinking about this .

[Audioman]

What would you suggest as an upgrade, i have been thinking about this .

This could be a good bet at a reasonable price. A Lot cheaper than Oyaide. Perhaps a forum member has experience of this.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ISOKINETIK-ISOTONE-TONEARM-CABLE-CARDAS-LITZ-CABLE-HIFI-/180510170782?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item2a073e9e9e

[Pete]

groverhuffman.com makes great cables for relatively cheap. I have all grover cables in my system and can't be happier.

I also made a phono cable using OHNO silver in teflon 28ga which sounds great.
Using this cable from the SUT to the phono stage.

Have not tried any other phono cables so my input is limited.

[chris@panteg]

This could be a good bet at a reasonable price. A Lot cheaper than Oyaide. Perhaps a forum member has experience of this.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ISOKINETIK-ISOTONE-TONEARM-CABLE-CARDAS-LITZ-CABLE-HIFI-/180510170782?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item2a073e9e9e

Thanks for the link , i have already looked at that one and contacted the seller , my problem with all of this is that , yes its accepted wisdom the supplied VDH cable can be improved on , but also so many say its awful , shite , etc,etc.

And yet when asked what to upgrade to , its usually some cable that cost's £150-250 and much more , and here is where i get confused :scratch: If the supplied VDH cable is so poor ! Why does it cost so much to better it ?

If its rubbish then a cheap £30 lead should do the job , Mark Grant can make an IC for £70 that beats almost anything up to £150 .

[Mike_New]

I am using a SME cable set supplied by G&E Connections in the UK
The fellow's name is John Miller
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/the-miller-family
Email johnandchris@hotmail.com

They are very well made and use the best Eichman and bullet RCA connectors.
The first set did not have the screening all the way to the SME connector, and I could discern some hum pickup at flat out volume. Apparently my set was the first he had done for a SL1200. He sent me a second set and I installed them two days ago, and they are perfect, hum wise, and the sound from them is excellent.

[chris@panteg]

I am using a SME cable set supplied by G&E Connections in the UK
The fellow's name is John Miller
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/the-miller-family
Email johnandchris@hotmail.com

They are very well made and use the best Eichman and bullet RCA connectors.
The first set did not have the screening all the way to the SME connector, and I could discern some hum pickup at flat out volume. Apparently my set was the first he had done for a SL1200. He sent me a second set and I installed them two days ago, and they are perfect, hum wise, and the sound from them is excellent.

Thanks Mike

The link doesn't work though .

[JohnM]

I think the question really at stake here is, are you happy with the sound? There are always going to be audiophiles out there to whom nothing is ever 'good' because it hasn't cost an arm and a leg (as far as I can see). Those LP rips you've posted in the other thread sound fantastic to me - would a new arm cable really make a day and night difference? Perhaps try and borrow a set just to see whether there really is a worthwhile gain to be had, or whether it's price-related placebo ;)

Cheers,

- John

[chris@panteg]

I think the question really at stake here is, are you happy with the sound? There are always going to be audiophiles out there to whom nothing is ever 'good' because it hasn't cost an arm and a leg (as far as I can see). Those LP rips you've posted in the other thread sound fantastic to me - would a new arm cable really make a day and night difference? Perhaps try and borrow a set just to see whether there really is a worthwhile gain to be had, or whether it's price-related placebo ;)

Cheers,

- John

Thanks John

To be honest , i am a wee bit picky and actually feel my rips could be better , my problem being i have had some pretty serious TT's in the past .

I think at the moment it would make no sense to spend even £120 on a new phono lead when the cartridge I'm using cost £50 :eyebrows: as Biff pointed out , this is heresy and i should burned at the stake !

Comparing my QL1 to the 1210/309/95HE , i would say that AT95HE outperforms the DL160 in certain areas , when the going gets tough or complex it starts to fall apart as i would expect , but its a hell of a decent cartridge for peanuts and the HE stylus is fantastic upgrade for around $30 from the states , well done LPgear .

[Slippershod]

I had a 309 for a while briefly - one thing I don't understand is why a company like SME would degrade their reputation (potentially) and a product (literally) with such a poor cable as some find it to be?

I'm not sure where I stand on the 'cable debate' in general, and am certainly not questioning the verdict of 'old hands' here and elsewhere as such ... but it seems strange SME haven't noticed this failing - such a company would, I assume, have no problem in providing a good replacement with no hit upon their finances etc. ?

[chris@panteg]

I had a 309 for a while briefly - one thing I don't understand is why a company like SME would degrade their reputation (potentially) and a product (literally) with such a poor cable as some find it to be?

I'm not sure where I stand on the 'cable debate' in general, and am certainly not questioning the verdict of 'old hands' here and elsewhere as such ... but it seems strange SME haven't noticed this failing - such a company would, I assume, have no problem in providing a good replacement with no hit upon their finances etc. ?

Is it so poor though ? It can be bettered yes but like i said most aftermarket efforts are all around £120 or more , J7 does one for around £80 i believe .

[Slippershod]

I think that's what I'm wondering about, Chris.

there does seem to be a common consensus that the cable is (relatively) poor; this being the case you'd think SME would haved sorted it, to 'reclaim' the integrity of their product.

Perhaps the more cynical would suggest the poorer cable is there to ensure a clear diff' between the 309 and it's more prestigious (pricey) brethren...?

As I said, I haven't heard enough cables to know if the difference can be so profound as claimed.

[DSJR]

Is it so poor though ? It can be bettered yes but like i said most aftermarket efforts are all around £120 or more , J7 does one for around £80 i believe .

The most expensive part of J7's cable is the custom arm-plug he does. The wire and phono's are a fiver or so (I use this excellent wire and plugs myself).

P.S. I use a "proper" Audio Origami cable bought used for £40 on fleabay, because I fugged up the original home-made one, which is now a vertical entry type and unsuitable for the Thorens. They sound the same though..

Audio interconnects are the biggest general rip-off in the "HiFi" industry IMO!

[Mike_New]

Hi Marc,
I do not think it is a case of SME disregarding their reputation per se'. rather a case once more of commercial awareness and reallity.
They would be aware that anyone purchasing their arms would probably be the people who would want to research and discuss the best cable set for their 309 or V.
In deed just as we are doing on this thread at this time!
The cable set I have with my V is nowhere near the sonic quality of the cable pair supplied to me by John Miller. However i am sure these do cost somewhat more than the OEM cables. And which can be purchased later when more funds accumulate.
Thus SME would need to increase their prices accordingly for the better cables.
What might be the better alternative, is for SME (and other upper end Arm suppliers) to offer their arm sans the interconnects. But I bet the price reduction would not be very great.

[Slippershod]

ok, Mike, and, really, I shouldn't go on (coz basically I don't know what I'm yapping about as per ... :lol:), but I've seen more than one thread on this subject where's it's asserted that the cable is 'letting down' the arm. Not just 'ok, but could be bettered'.

And that seems odd to me, if it really is so clearly the case.

my time with the 309 was very inconclusive: made a decent enough sound - but I just don't really like the arm aesthetically speaking :rolleyes:

[JohnM]

I'd like to know how the SME/VDH arm lead can degrade the signal exactly (from what people have been saying about it on other forums) - are the conductors not doing their job of transferring from A-to-B, are the plugs not connected using a decent solder, is the shielding not up to par etc etc. Or is the cable merely reflecting the quality of the arm/cart accurately?

I'd try and borrow a cable from someone to see if there's much - if any - difference. My own take is that cables CAN sometimes make a very slight difference, but certainly not night and day stuff, unless really poorly engineered. As cable sound can not be proved scientifically - at least not in terms of the differences many people claim they can hear - it's become a marketeers wet dream over the years. Some of the adverts in the Hi-Fi comics these days just have me shaking my head in sad disbelief. I really do think it's spun completely out of control and the prices are just insane for what you're actually getting.

[chris@panteg]

I'd like to know how the SME/VDH arm lead can degrade the signal exactly (from what people have been saying about it on other forums) - are the conductors not doing their job of transferring from A-to-B, are the plugs not connected using a decent solder, is the shielding not up to par etc etc. Or is the cable merely reflecting the quality of the arm/cart accurately?

I'd try and borrow a cable from someone to see if there's much - if any - difference. My own take is that cables CAN sometimes make a very slight difference, but certainly not night and day stuff, unless really poorly engineered. As cable sound can not be proved scientifically - at least not in terms of the differences many people claim they can hear - it's become a marketeers wet dream over the years. Some of the adverts in the Hi-Fi comics these days just have me shaking my head in sad disbelief. I really do think it's spun completely out of control and the prices are just insane for what you're actually getting.

Hi John

Guy Sargeant told me he feels the leads supplied by SME do hold the arm back as it were , so there must be something in this , but its interesting to hear what Brian Laker says in the SME tour video on youtube , take a look at it .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8tbyVRsrKM

[prestonchipfryer]

Suppose a lot of it depends on which way the wind is blowing. Cables can make a difference, maybe not better just a different presentation. Silver plated, rhodium plated, gold plated, copper, solid silver, solid copper, stranded, directional; make your choice. If a cable is properly constructed then it really is not a big issue as to what it's made of; so long as it transfers the signal efficiently and is shielded from RFI and other nasties. Certainly not worth the overblown cost insisted upon by various producers of cables.

[JohnM]

Hi John

Guy Sargeant told me he feels the leads supplied by SME do hold the arm back as it were , so there must be something in this , but its interesting to hear what Brian Laker says in the SME tour video on youtube , take a look at it .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8tbyVRsrKM

VERY interesting video(s) indeed, and I agree with what he says about the tonearm cables ;)

It's in part.2 that he mentions this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tbv2WEi8ao&feature=related

To me an SME will remain out of reach financially - the Jelco SA-750D is as good as I'll ever get I think short of winning the lotto. I'd just get on and enjoy it and stop fretting over cables - SME specifically chose that cable to go with that arm, so it's part of the design really. I'd enjoy it as such :)

[drrd]

My SME V came with VDH MC silver cabling, are people including this in the discussion of 'stock' cable? It sounds excellent to me.

[Audioman]

My SME V came with VDH MC silver cabling, are people including this in the discussion of 'stock' cable? It sounds excellent to me.

The stock internal V cable is better than the stock 309. However SME offer a superior silver cable for all arms at an extra £150. I think they are obviously aware of the limitations of the various stock cables. I believe the same external interconnect is standard for all arms. This would suggest they leave it up to the customer to 'improve' this.

This does not mean the stock cables are rubbish. They are obviously of very high quality. I think the criticism is that they don't bring out the full potential of the arms and may be partly the reason some reviewers prefer other less well engineered alternatives on 'musicality' grounds. Frankly most customers will probably be satisfied with standard cabling as it clearly does not make the arms sound bad. I'm sure it will be both system dependent and a matter of individual taste as to whether paying for upgraded cable is worthwhile.

[CableMaker1]

ok, Mike, and, really, I shouldn't go on (coz basically I don't know what I'm yapping about as per ... :lol:), but I've seen more than one thread on this subject where's it's asserted that the cable is 'letting down' the arm. Not just 'ok, but could be bettered'.

And that seems odd to me, if it really is so clearly the case.

my time with the 309 was very inconclusive: made a decent enough sound - but I just don't really like the arm aesthetically speaking :rolleyes:

Hello. I am in the same boat with you. I have the SME 309 on my Technics TT. I prefer the stock arm asthetic wise, however, the SME 309 sounds much better. I have an SME V on my other TT. I inquired about purchasing an arm in silver finish, but it would cose an extra 200 pounds. SME is a UK company.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi there Mike,
Welcome to The Art Of Sound - it's nice to see you here. I'm going to ask you to do a couple of things before you do too much more posting though, if you don't mind.

Would you mind nipping over to the welcome section & starting a new thread that introduces yourself to the community. Tell us all a little about yourself, you hi-fi & your taste in music, that way is the best route to a warm welcome from the natives!

Also, we'd prefer you to be a little more specific about your location - a city or county is good (we don't expect to know your house number or anything!).

Cheers

[CableMaker1]

The stock internal V cable is better than the stock 309. However SME offer a superior silver cable for all arms at an extra £150. I think they are obviously aware of the limitations of the various stock cables. I believe the same external interconnect is standard for all arms. This would suggest they leave it up to the customer to 'improve' this.

This does not mean the stock cables are rubbish. They are obviously of very high quality. I think the criticism is that they don't bring out the full potential of the arms and may be partly the reason some reviewers prefer other less well engineered alternatives on 'musicality' grounds. Frankly most customers will probably be satisfied with standard cabling as it clearly does not make the arms sound bad. I'm sure it will be both system dependent and a matter of individual taste as to whether paying for upgraded cable is worthwhile.

My SME 309 came with a stock VDH tonearm cable. I was not satisified with the cable they used, so I made my own cable (hence my name) and the tonearm sounds much better!!! So when I purchased my SME V, I purchased it without the tonearm cable and made my own. Got to love Vinyl!

[CableMaker1]

Hi there Mike,
Welcome to The Art Of Sound - it's nice to see you here. I'm going to ask you to do a couple of things before you do too much more posting though, if you don't mind.

Would you mind nipping over to the welcome section & starting a new thread that introduces yourself to the community. Tell us all a little about yourself, you hi-fi & your taste in music, that way is the best route to a warm welcome from the natives!

Also, we'd prefer you to be a little more specific about your location - a city or county is good (we don't expect to know your house number or anything!).

Cheers

Hello there.

Thanks for the welcome, and I will update some info in the About yourself area.

Mike

[The Grand Wazoo]

Thanks a lot.

[CableMaker1]

Hey guys,

I was searching the net about differences between this two arms and there is only small amount of data available.

The main difference appears to be bearings, fixed headshell, damping and easy VTA adjustment on V.

What are the opinions here, is the V worth over the 309?

My other upgrades will consist of Mike New bearing & platter alongside PH SR5 psu.

The internal tonearm wiring that the 309 uses is OFC. The V uses Silver Plated Copper which could explain some sonic differences.

The 309 also uses a removable headshell vs. a uni-cast tonearm on the V. The V also has a damping trough and VTA adjustment. A damping trough exists for the 309 as an accessory.

Both sound wonderful on the Technics SL-1200MK2.

[stevied]

I was told that the sme IV was the tonearm to go for and that many prefered the sound to the sme v

regards steve

[Spectral Morn]

Having owned a 309 (now moved on to a friend) and currently owning an SME5 arm (among others) The 309 was bettered by a big margin by the 5 arm.

I can also say that I find that the supplied VDH cable veils things quite a bit compared to other possible options. I would not call it crap but it is the bottle neck on this arm and all SME arms imho. However SME will rewire your arm for you if you supply them with the cable, they will even do this at time of ordering.

I did talk to a guy at SME about 4 years ago about doing this and also if it were possible for them to do/supply a magnapan wired one. They supply these to a US distributor but after a bit of pushing I was told that the cable is sent to them from said distributor and all the cabling is accounted for, for each arm they then supply. He did say they were aware of the dissatisfaction rife among certain audiophiles but they (SME) were happy with the VDH choice, so it would stay as standard but custom options were available.

For myself I use a junction box with Audio Note ANV (rca to rca) cable but I also use both RCA and XLR versions of the Graham iC 70 arm cable, with my Graham Phantom, Graham 2.2, Jelco 750D and SME 5.

One issue not mentioned much here is the type of plug used for fitting into the bottom of the arm. Frankly the arm well on the Technics does not allow much room, (if you are not using an arm with vertical cable output that is) for the right angled out put. If you are, you then need to use a slim neat termination such as the Graham (current one has three holes in it for allowing the connector to be turned, should the angle the cable exits at need to be changed.) or SME connector. Larger straight ones won't work generally, especially if the cable being used is heavy; with the Technics 1200 deck. Oh yes before anyone says......the rubber under my decks has been taken back to be flush with the metal inner circle of the arm well.


Regards D S D L

[Pete]

I echo Dalek's observations about the VDH supplied cable veiling the sound.
I also trimmed the rubber to match the round cavity that the tonearm sits in. This unsupported rubber is basically a diaphragm that can pick up vibrations, and serves no good purpose.

My V bettered my 309 in many areas as Dalek has also noted.

The V also has better internal wiring than the 309 which is also a contributor to the improved sound.

Some have gone as far as rewiring the internal wire of the V and report some gains there too. This is a more difficult step, and I'm not sure if the sound gets better or just different.

Mike New had an interesting approach to an external cable, he used the straight 5-pin DIN connector and drilled a hole through the back end of the table chassis to allow the cable to come straight out of the arm connector, thus avoiding the bends needed to make 90deg DIN cables work properly.

[DSJR]

Not sure of this hasn't been asked before, but isn't the V arm casting a different material to the other two?

By the way, the V always sounded utterly transparent on the PT decks, although fruitbox lovers didn't like this.

[chris@panteg]

Not sure of this hasn't been asked before, but isn't the V arm casting a different material to the other two?

By the way, the V always sounded utterly transparent on the PT decks, although fruitbox lovers didn't like this.

The 309 ,the IV and the V are all Magnesium ! Up until a few years back the 309 had an ali wand .

[DSJR]

Ah, thanks. I don't know the current 309, but the old one was lovely :) Cheaper than an Ittok too at the time ;)

[CableMaker1]

Remember that the 309 uses LB-OFC (pure copper) in their tonearm wire, where-as the V uses Silver Plated LB-OFC as the internal wiring. This adds an impurity to the wiring which alters the design. I am sure to those who have the V are quite pleased, but for that kind of money, they should use OF-pure silver wire or OF-silver and copper wiring in their tonearm. This would improve the sound even more, getting the most from such a high-end arm.

Unfortunately, this is not an apples-to-apples comparison when talking about the wiring inside the tonearm.

[chris@panteg]

Remember that the 309 uses LB-OFC (pure copper) in their tonearm wire, where-as the V uses Silver Plated LB-OFC as the internal wiring. This adds an impurity to the wiring which alters the design. I am sure to those who have the V are quite pleased, but for that kind of money, they should use OF-pure silver wire or OF-silver and copper wiring in their tonearm. This would improve the sound even more, getting the most from such a high-end arm.

Unfortunately, this is not an apples-to-apples comparison when talking about the wiring inside the tonearm.

A friend of mine had his V rewired with Kondo stuff , he's very happy with it , but he should be i guess.

I think i will try an aftermarket cable but stick with pure copper ? Chioce looks a bit small , but J7's looks good .

[Pete]

I believe the std SME V uses silver litz internal wiring, and VdH MCS150 silver is the optional internal wire.