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Macca
11-05-2011, 22:52
Dropped on big time today with some absolutely bea-ay-uytiful Ditton 44. One owner from new. Except for a slight blemish in the botom corner of the back of one cab and a little fade in the venier on the top of the other they are minter than mint. Drivers look like they were installed yesterday.

Got 'em back tonight took one snap and the camera died. Will do some more tomorrow as the teak cabs are stunning. I went to collect them walked into the room and nearly died to see them - it looked like they had just been taken out of the boxes brand new.

Anyway enough of my yacking; here is the one dodgy picture I managed to take while there was still daylight and charge in the camera (just to whet the appetite):

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/celestion44001-1.jpg

Rare Bird
11-05-2011, 23:27
Nice one Martin

John
12-05-2011, 06:28
Enjoy Martin

Marco
12-05-2011, 07:15
Ooooh... More Celest-fest! And so another Celestionista joins the fold :)

Fire 'em up and let us know what you think, then take a decent photo of the buggers! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Macca
12-05-2011, 07:20
Hi Marco

What do you use for speaker cable/connectors on the 66 as these have tiny, tiny speaker terminals that will only accpet spade connectors, they won't take bare wire even?

Marco
12-05-2011, 07:37
Mmm... That's interesting, Martin. On both my 15XRs and 66s, there are (admittedly very basic) but decent enough speaker terminals that take any kind of modern banana plugs.

Do your 44s not look like this at the back?


http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6447/buzkhzgcwkkgrhqvhsev10g.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/buzkhzgcwkkgrhqvhsev10g.jpg/)


Note the type of terminals shown, which are also the same as on my 66s. Banana plugs simply fit straight in :)

Marco.

Macca
12-05-2011, 07:41
The terminals on mine are tiny - the plastic cover that unscrews is about 5mm across and the pillar it sits on is about 5mm deep so practically impossible to get even 79 strand bound around it. They are all original so I don't know how your 66 are different. I will have to get some spade connectors before I can try them I think:(

Marco
12-05-2011, 07:47
Yup, that is a strange one, unless yours are super-early ones which might have been fitted with different terminals. Andr'e would know :)

What was the guy using, in terms of speaker cable, who you bought them from - bell wire??

It's quite easy though to fit new terminals :cool:

Marco.

Macca
12-05-2011, 07:48
Yeah bell wire with spades I think but he had them in storage for 30 years and was using Tannoys and B&W 601 s2 instead

Marco
12-05-2011, 07:56
You'll defo need to fit decent speaker terminals, not least because you won't be able to use any decent cable otherwise.

Still, that's a minor problem. The good news, apart from the fact that they look in mint condition, is that the early ones tend to have the best bits inside, crossover-wise, so I wouldn't worry too much ;)

Can you see what the serial numbers are?

Marco.

Macca
12-05-2011, 07:58
No, I don't want to mod them as thye are so minty mint and original it would be a crime. Will post some decent snaps when I get back at tea-time, gotta do some work now:(

Marco
12-05-2011, 08:10
No worries, dude. Let us know later what you think when you've had a listen :)

Marco.

spendorman
12-05-2011, 09:06
Several years ago I bought a pair of 44's pretty cheap, the cabinets matched and the serial numbers were not far apart, but completely different arrangement for speaker terminals on each speaker, both look original.

tommy6206
12-05-2011, 13:20
The one's on mine are also small,so what i did was strip wire back split in half and wrap around post and twist the wire back together then screw terminal back down works well here.They do sound very nice.I have mine mounted on Atacama speaker stands filled with play sand from Argos, with spikes on the bottom and blue tack on the top.

Macca
12-05-2011, 16:56
Here are some more piccies:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/003-1.jpg

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/002-1.jpg

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/007.jpg

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/004-1.jpg

I always wanted a set of 3 way infinite baffle speakers with a 12'' bass driver - and now I have them! (subject to stands and cables). The bloke wouldn't take more than £60 for them! (I tried to pay more, really I did!).

Interestingly these are the second from the top in the Ditton range, top of the range being the 66 like Marco has. My exisiting Celestions ( model A2) are also second from top in their range ( A series released late 1990s) so an upcoming Celestion shoot out is on the cards!

Reid Malenfant
12-05-2011, 17:07
The bloke wouldn't take more than £60 for them! (I tried to pay more, really I did!).

Obviously the bloke hasn't seen how much a pair of HF2000 tweeters go for on ebay :eek:

:lolsign:

Bargain ;)

Macca
12-05-2011, 17:10
Obviously the bloke hasn't seen how much a pair of HF2000 tweeters go for on ebay :eek:

:lolsign:

Bargain ;)

Breaking them would be a crime, they are almost box fresh, appearance wise anyway. I said he would get a lot more on ebay but he wasn't bothered, I think he preferred they go to an enthusiast with no intention of selling em -

Reid Malenfant
12-05-2011, 17:13
I wasn't suggesting that Martin, what i meant was if a pair of tweeters can go for getting on for £100 or more then it gives some idea of the value of the whole lot :eyebrows:

Alex_UK
12-05-2011, 18:38
Enjoy and cherish them, Martin - I think its great that the previous owner wanted them to go to a good home - and after you've listened to them for a while I suspect they will be going nowhere! :)

Jac Hawk
12-05-2011, 19:09
I bought a set of ditton 130's they had the same terminals on them, the red and black screw on bits completely unscrew, anyway i gave them to a mate and he used crimp ring terminals with Belkin Pure A/V speaker cable. they are strange somewhat old fashioned terminals but do the job and you can at least get the connections screwed down nice and tight.

Macca
12-05-2011, 20:19
I bought a set of ditton 130's they had the same terminals on them, the red and black screw on bits completely unscrew, anyway i gave them to a mate and he used crimp ring terminals with Belkin Pure A/V speaker cable. they are strange somewhat old fashioned terminals but do the job and you can at least get the connections screwed down nice and tight.

Thanks Mike I'll see whats available - if they fit the Belkin cable that's all I need.

Macca
12-05-2011, 20:33
Enjoy and cherish them, Martin - I think its great that the previous owner wanted them to go to a good home - and after you've listened to them for a while I suspect they will be going nowhere! :)

That's it - in theory my A2s should be better given 20 odd years development. I'll need stands for the Dittons first so it is a fair comparison.

Great just to look at them though, have to confess I got in from work tonight and went straight for another look at them before I took my coat off:)

Macca
12-05-2011, 20:38
I wasn't suggesting that Martin, what i meant was if a pair of tweeters can go for getting on for £100 or more then it gives some idea of the value of the whole lot :eyebrows:

Sorry Mark - yes I understood you - although didn't know the HF units were so valuable - they do look good, though. Neither of us was interested in making a buck on the deal it was just very generous of him to refuse any more on principle. Top bloke really.

Rare Bird
13-05-2011, 09:20
Martin
They are an early pair of Veneered baffle board 44's, that still carry the previous plastic terminal pods ..Just remove the old terminals & fit a small diameter post such as the Michell.

Use the Michell Amplifier post (not the speaker post version)..

This terminal is only approx 10mm dia, needs a 5mm hole. you will be able to use bannana plugs or thick bare wire then. I can tell you the best place to get them from..

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Post.jpg

Marco
13-05-2011, 10:03
That's it - in theory my A2s should be better given 20 odd years development.


That counts for bugger all, mate.

The best vintage speakers will more often than not piss all over many modern designs, simply because they often used much better quality drive units, and crucially, were voiced to accurately reproduce music, and not the screechy noise that commercial pressures dictate that speaker manufacturers should produce with their designs these days!

The only thing that sometimes holds back the performance of the best vintage speaker designs are the crossover components, which often need replacing due to being long past their sell-by date.

However, that can be done sympathetically by anyone with an understanding of basic electronics, and a good pair of ears :cool:

The comparison will be interesting, but I'm expecting the A2s to sound rather more 'hi-fi' than the Celestions. I suspect that both will have their strengths and weaknesses, but that the 44s will be the ones you come back to listening to most ;)

Marco.

Rare Bird
13-05-2011, 10:18
Hi Marco
Too right mate, It still amazes me the results you can get from changing the old cross over parts, some old companies around this era did infact use very high quality Inductors, celestion being an example, i would personally stick with whats in those '44's indctor wise..As for caps, not brainy spending mega buck on boutique capacitors, a set of Ansar polyprops would be an excepional choice at beer money, i'll always recommend these caps, Mike (Jack Hawk) took up the recommendation with his old castle's, i believe he was very very please with the end result.

Marco
13-05-2011, 10:30
Yep, mate, I agree about the inductors - I'd leave those well alone. The ones used inside my 66s are very good indeed, and so I'd expect those in the 44s to be of similar quality :)

Classic speakers like these should be kept as original as possible, but sometimes small tweaks need to be carried out in order to get the best from them - and also crucially to preserve the functionality of the drive units, which of course are very difficult to replace.

Marco.

Rare Bird
13-05-2011, 10:44
Right. I whole wholeheartedly agree that gear of this age does need rebuilding & in most instances with modern high quality equivilant parts, but under no circumstances do i believe in modification that requires defacing an old item, my advice is think very carefully as to your plan & what items you are gonna use to perform the rebuild/mod, it;'s always possible. As for crossovers, my recommendation would be to hardwire on a new board. Just keep the original board safe no harm is done then.If the board is already an old hard wired then great, a simple part change (except those inductors that will be the same quality as your 66's marco)

spendorman
13-05-2011, 12:14
Both pairs of my Ditton 44's (and my four spare crossovers) have hard wired crossovers.

Macca
13-05-2011, 12:21
Hi Marco, Andre

I have ordered some Belkin screw on spade connectors to replace the screw on banana plugs so as soon as they arrive I can connect up the Dittons without modding anything. I don't intend to change the caps unless they really sound like they need doing.

The Celestion A2 was from the last flagship range Celestion did before being bought out by the Chinese (Haden Boardman described them as 'the last of the true Celestions') so they are designed and built in the UK just as the Dittons before them - they definetly do not sound like modern screechy speakers if they did I would not be using them :) as I find the sound of a lot of modern speakers to be unmusical, as I suspect do both of you;).

Rare Bird
13-05-2011, 12:23
Here's an old 60's amplifier i'm in the middle off. It's had a lot of part changes inside. I wanted it to look as original as possible (as always). Just needs some new internal wiring in places (& more tidy than originally) :lolsign:

As you can see the bottom amp is an untouched example of another simular model, poor quality crosshead bolts, the horrific 2 core bell wire :eek:

The rear pannel goal was to replace those bolts with stainless steel button head allen fixings, the speaker terminal were obviously inpossible to used. terminals as with phono sockets were not the same centre fixings as they are thesedays hence i had to opt for a small diameter speaker terminal that would fit in the existing holes of that original mounting plate..

Re: mains cable, thanks to Dave brook i now have an ideal flexable high grade mains cable which was perfectly the corect diameter i wanted, i removed the original plastic cable gland, fitted a slotted gromet that would allow the larger diameter cable (was impossible to mount a large cable gland), the cables inside is clamped down as not to pull out of the grommet.The amp now has a proper 3 core cable .. all this looks great & without defacing the original item.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Rebuild-1.jpg

Macca
13-05-2011, 12:35
Looks great Andre - if I do decide to mod these Dittons I'll be bringing them over to you:lolsign:

spendorman
13-05-2011, 12:38
Here's an old 60's amplifier i'm in the middle off. It's had a lot of part changes inside. I wanted it to look as original as possible (as always). Just needs some new internal wiring in places (& more tidy than originally) :lolsign:

As you can see the bottom amp is an untouched example of another simular model, poor quality crosshead bolts, the horrific 2 core bell wire with no earth to chassis :eek:

The rear pannel goal was to replace those bolts with stainless steel button head allen fixings, the speaker terminal were obviously inpossible to used. terminals as with phono sockets were not the same centre fixings as they are thesedays hence i had to opt for a small diameter speaker terminal that would fit in the existing holes of that original mounting plate..

Re: mains cable, thanks to Dave brook i now have an ideal flexable high grade mains cable which was perfectly the corect diameter i wanted, i removed the original plastic cable gland, fitted a slotted gromet that would allow the larger diameter cable (was impossible to mount a large cable gland), the cables inside is clamped down as not to pull out of the grommet.The amp now has a proper 3 core cable earthed to chassis.. all this looks great & without defacing the original item.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Rebuild-1.jpg

Are those speaker terminals a bit too close together (the new ones)?

Rare Bird
13-05-2011, 12:46
I was waiting for you ;) No they are actually 0.5mm wider apart than the backs of the originals, besides the ones i use are the smallest diameter high grade posts you can use i this situation, they are perfect. I'm extremely methodical in everything i do, no mistakes

spendorman
13-05-2011, 12:54
I was waiting for you ;) No they are actually 0.5mm wider apart than the backs of the originals, besides the ones i use are the smallest diameter high grade posts you can use i this situation, they are perfect. I'm extremely methodical in everything i do, no mistakes

Still a bit too close for me with my clumsy hands and possible loose strands of wire!

Rare Bird
13-05-2011, 12:59
Still a bit too close for me with my clumsy hands and possible loose strands of wire!

Theres a hell of a lot more chance a strand of wire touching two terminals with the old way than the new, besides i wouldnt be seen dead using bare wire in a situation like that. ;)

spendorman
13-05-2011, 13:06
Theres a hell of a lot more chance a strand of wire touching two terminals with the old way than the new, besides i wouldnt be seen dead using bare wire in a situation like that. ;)

Ah, using plugs, not so bad.

Rare Bird
13-05-2011, 13:14
Not So Bad :scratch:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Picture104.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Picture105.jpg

Anyway sorry about the sidetracking Martin

Jac Hawk
13-05-2011, 20:48
Hi Marco
Too right mate, It still amazes me the results you can get from changing the old cross over parts, some old companies around this era did infact use very high quality Inductors, celestion being an example, i would personally stick with whats in those '44's indctor wise..As for caps, not brainy spending mega buck on boutique capacitors, a set of Ansar polyprops would be an excepional choice at beer money, i'll always recommend these caps, Mike (Jack Hawk) took up the recommendation with his old castle's, i believe he was very very please with the end result.

Very good advice it was too, now i do understand where you're coming from macca, you want yer new speakers to be as original as possible, but parts do wear out and the caps even if the speakers have only been used once in a blue moon will need replacing due to the age of them, the Ansar's Andre recommended to me really will make a big difference, the best way i can discribe the difference it made to my Castles is with the old caps they sounded out of focus, however with the new caps everything sounds clear and easily definable

Macca
13-05-2011, 21:10
I'm sorting out some stands tomorrow and I've already ordered some Belkin spade connectors so as soon as I have the whole thing together I will hook them up and do a comparison. Bear in mind the A2 were £1500 in 1996 they are not a budget speaker. If it is a walk-over for the Dittons (once set up properly) I will be amazed - I expect them to be just different I think.

Macca
15-05-2011, 10:01
I couldn't get any suitable stands for the Dittons locally :( so was reduced to trawling the web. I needed either short (up to 12'') open frames (ideally) or a short pillar stand with decent size top plate. Not much around that was suitable except some Atacama at £99.99 plus delivery - waayyy to expensive:eek:

In the end I opted for these from e-bay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220780904948

32 cms high which I think is about a foot in the old money (I struggle with metric:rolleyes:) which will do the job of getting the cabs off the floor without putting the mid and tweeter too high up.

Checked on my spade connector order but showing not dispatched and not in stock - typical for an Amazon seller - in my experience anyway:steam:. So, I've ordered some diferent ones as well from someone who actually has stock of the thing that he is selling (that's how you do business, folks:)) which will not screw into my new Belkin cables but will take bare wire of which I have some that can be robbed from the AV system if needed.

Speaking of which, today's task is to strip down and rebuild my entire AV system as nothing is working properly and the rat's nests of cables and power cords have to be seen to be believed. So I may just lash the Dittons up to that system with bare wire (the suround speaker cable I have is just crappy enough to maybe wrap onto the Ditton's tiny little terminals) and actually have a listen to my new babies:eyebrows:

spendorman
15-05-2011, 10:10
I couldn't get any suitable stands for the Dittons locally :( so was reduced to trawling the web. I needed either short (up to 12'') open frames (ideally) or a short pillar stand with decent size top plate. Not much around that was suitable except some Atacama at £99.99 plus delivery - waayyy to expensive:eek:

In the end I opted for these from e-bay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220780904948

32 cms high which I think is about a foot in the old money (I struggle with metric:rolleyes:) which will do the job of getting the cabs off the floor without putting the mid and tweeter too high up.

Checked on my spade connector order but showing not dispatched and not in stock - typical for an Amazon seller - in my experience anyway:steam:. So, I've ordered some diferent ones as well from someone who actually has stock of the thing that he is selling (that's how you do business, folks:)) which will not screw into my new Belkin cables but will take bare wire of which I have some that can be robbed from the AV system if needed.

Speaking of which, today's task is to strip down and rebuild my entire AV system as nothing is working properly and the rat's nests of cables and power cords have to be seen to be believed. So I may just lash the Dittons up to that system with bare wire (the suround speaker cable I have is just crappy enough to maybe wrap onto the Ditton's tiny little terminals) and actually have a listen to my new babies:eyebrows:
How about some Ditton 10's for the rear channels!!

DSJR
15-05-2011, 10:10
Ditton 44's were big, friendly and involving speakers, but the bass, although good quality, can swamp the mid if the speakers are too close to walls and floors (so many of these were floor mounted so all the treble was muffled).

I think these may be late ones (can't remember if the rebates around the grille frames were changed later on, but they didn't always have black cloth grilles).

The 33's are good as well, but I'd avoid the 25's unless you have a large room, as the double tweeters (used to get the treble output up) will give funny dispersion/phasey problems if you sit too close.

Anyone tried Goodmans Magnum K2's in recent times? Another one which transforms on lowish stands.

I'd personally avoid single pillar stands for these speakers above unless they're very heavy, as they'll wobble around otherwise. A couple of low lamp tables may be ok, or the Target/Apollo open frame types should be fine. For a couple of hundred quid, Something Solid will custom-make a pair of their excellent XF stands up and these are wonderful with speakers of this type I've found.

Those stands look good - PLEASE DON'T damage the cabinets with top spikes - some bump-on feet will be fine IMO.

Macca
15-05-2011, 10:16
How about some Ditton 10's for the rear channels!!

Like these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-CELESTION-DITTON-110-SPEAKERS-/380333661817?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item588da71e79

Don't give me ideas:lolsign:

spendorman
15-05-2011, 10:19
Like these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-CELESTION-DITTON-110-SPEAKERS-/380333661817?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item588da71e79

Don't give me ideas:lolsign:

No, no, like these:

http://www.reparatur-hifi.de/images/Celestion_Ditton10.jpg

Recognise the bass/mid unit!

Rare Bird
15-05-2011, 10:20
:spew:

Macca
15-05-2011, 10:22
:spew:

Andre no likee:lol:

DSJR
15-05-2011, 10:26
The Counties weren't bad, but the HF1300 was almosr dominated by the larger bass-mid. Today, the sense of timing and bass extension would win through I think.

Jac Hawk
15-05-2011, 12:25
Like these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-CELESTION-DITTON-110-SPEAKERS-/380333661817?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item588da71e79

Don't give me ideas:lolsign:

Those 110's look crap or as Andre would say :spew: not even real wood vaneers, just cheap looking vinyl wrap, i'm sure they didn't even cost that price when they were new, just cos they're Dittons doesn't mean they're great, they may be ok as rear speakers but not for that much money.

Good luck with sorting out your A/V setup mate, i did the same thing a few months ago, carefully coiling up and tie locking cables that were too long etc, still ended up looking like a rats nest:scratch: i think it's meant to.

Macca
15-05-2011, 14:11
Okay! I have working Celstion Ditton 44 hooked up to a Sony XB930E and my AV amp with nasty 55 strand cable - playing some Erykah Badu - sounding very nice indeed!:eyebrows:

Note the piles of unused kit slowly building up in to the rear - a side effect of AOS membership...:rolleyes:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/002-3.jpg

DSJR
15-05-2011, 14:45
Wot yer got to move on then?

Macca
15-05-2011, 17:48
Wot yer got to move on then?

Nothing I particularly need to shift cause I can't be bothered with the agrro plus I never know when I may need it again. Which is why it is all still piled about in the lounge! The pile in the photo comprises:

Behringer A500 (waiting to be a sub-woofer amp, I've got another somewhere)
Sony CDP 761E - laser knackered I think
Another Sony CDP - fine draw won't open on its own
Samsung Blu-ray player
Linn LK1 Preamp

spendorman
15-05-2011, 18:03
The Counties weren't bad, but the HF1300 was almosr dominated by the larger bass-mid. Today, the sense of timing and bass extension would win through I think.

Don't understand, Counties have an 8" paper cone bass unit and HF1300. The 1300 was often used with 8" bass units.

The Ditton 10 used an approx. 5" unit (same as the Ditton 44 mid) and HF1300.

Both County and 10 are not too bad a speaker. The Ditton 10 has remarkable bass for the size. Treble, up to the limit of the 1300 (not that high) is pretty good.

The early Ditton 10's were 15 Ohm, were marked Studio Series, had heavy bitumen panels damping the inside of the cabinet and I reckon that they were possibly an inspiration for the LS3/5a

The limited (but good) treble of the 10's might make them good rear channel speakers for the Ditton 44.

Rare Bird
15-05-2011, 18:09
I think these may be late ones (can't remember if the rebates around the grille frames were changed later on, but they didn't always have black cloth grilles).



:lolsign: Already told him they are early Venered baffle board version that still carries the old plastic terminal pod (Post 24) :) The later one's didnt have a plastic pod.

But your right the '33's are great, still my Fav out of all of them.

However they are in nice condition Martin, you just need some low open frame stands now..Don't you just love the wide x shallow depth cabinets, i have stacks more playability with my speakers being not deep at all..

Jac Hawk
15-05-2011, 21:25
Hello everyone my names Andre and I'm a 70's oholic :lolsign:

sorry mate, couldn't resist;)

Rare Bird
15-05-2011, 21:29
There's no cure :eyebrows:

Macca
15-05-2011, 21:58
:lolsign: Already told him they are early Venered baffle version that still carries the old plastic terminal pod (Post 24) :) The later one's didnt have a plastic pod.

But your right the '33's are great, still my Fav out of all of them.

However they are in nice condition Martin, you just need some low open frame stands now..Don't you just love the wide x shallow depth cabinets, i have stacks more playability with my speakers being not deep at all..

Hi Andre

Got some stands coming but they area low pillar, could not find any open frames to suit despite extensive trawling. Shouldn't matter as I will be using them in free space anyway due to room constraints. Sounded very good indeed earlier on just plonked on the floor with a lash up system so I have high hopes.

Macca
21-05-2011, 14:57
Well it has been a lot of work but it has been worth it. Here is a piccie of the Celestions now sat upon their new stands, secured with lashings of our old friend Blu-Tak and wired up with Belkin cable and gold plated screw on Belkin spade connectors (thanks to Chris 'Wazoo').

Do they look Kick Ass or what?:eyebrows:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/001-2.jpg

My Williams power is out on loan so the system is as per my sig but with a Linn LK100 on power amp duties. As mentioned before I am interested in the comparison between these Celestions - the second in the 1970s flagship Ditton range behind the '66, and my A2s which were second in the 1990s 'A' series range.

As you can see in the photo the 44 is a true 3 way sealed box whereas the A2 (which are hiding behind) is a two and a half way with the one 8'' for mid/bass and another for low bass only, laid out in a D'Appolito or MTM arrangement and with a bass port on the back the size of the Mersey Tunnel

Having designed and had built some speakers in the dim and distant past my preference is for large sealed cabs with drivers dedicated to each section of the frequency range hence my interest in trying out the 44s.

Listening kicked off with some recently cleaned vinyl:

The Blues Brothers - original soundtrack
Pat Travers - Makin' Magic
BB King - The Best Of

By the time I got to the BB King it is fair to say I was stunned. One of the first things that became apparant is that there is a noticable 'family' sound between the 44 and the A2. Let me put it this way, if, in 1996 after 20 years you decided to replace your old 44s with the latest equivelent Celestion you would not have to suffer too much of a culture shock - big expansive, warm and sweet describes both loudspeakers, in fact the Ditton is actually sweeter and maybe more open in the top.

The Ditton also has the edge on instrumental seperation and vocals, preumably because of the dedicted midrange driver; but the real star of the show here is the bass from those 12 inch paper cones. Clean, deep-ish (deep enough anyway) and with an almost intangible but nevertheless addictive rich, sumptuous tone to it. I have read that the same cones are prized for guitar cabs due to their particular sonic signature. No wonder!

I am actually starting to think that these speakers have had very little use from new, I mean under 100 hours as they have effectively been in storage for 20 odd years. There is no question that the sound opened out and bass and mid became faster and sweeter the longer I played. I may actually be still breaking the drivers in!

Spinning records for several hours (actually from 6pm to 1030pm without a break!) I had no desire to swap back to the A2. I had gone through a number of rock albums which all hit the spot nicely. So then I decided to try some more demanding material in the form of the live Pat Metheney record 'The Road to You' which is a stunning production and very dynamic and wideband.

It was the best I have ever heard it reproduced.

Are these keepers? Well I am going to have to think long and hard about it. Certainly, with the listening so far, I think I prefer them to the A2, although there is not a gulf between them, it is not 'night and day':lolsign: With volume up you can maybe hear the box a little on the 44 whereas you can't on the A2.
Then there is the beautiful cabs of the 44 - the veneer is perfect and it is a pleasure just to sit and look at them even when they are not doing anything!

I may try the A2 on the stands as they will fit on them with a little coaxing and a lot of Blu-Tak - we shall see. Anyway, enough of my yakking, that's it for now, I am off to listen to my new toys again!

Regards To All

keiths
21-05-2011, 16:03
Great write up Martin. Sounds like you got a real bargain there :clap:

Reid Malenfant
21-05-2011, 20:15
Great write up Martin. Sounds like you got a real bargain there :clap:
He did, just the tweeters go for more on fleabay than he payed for the pair of speakers :lolsign:

Nice one Martin, enjoy chap! They sure do look good, superb condition :partytime:

DSJR
21-05-2011, 20:55
You can toe them in a little if you'd like to :)

They look lovely. Glad you love them and you can be assured that they've almost never sounded as good as they do now...

DSJR
21-05-2011, 20:57
Don't understand, Counties have an 8" paper cone bass unit and HF1300. The 1300 was often used with 8" bass units.

The Ditton 10 used an approx. 5" unit (same as the Ditton 44 mid) and HF1300.

Both County and 10 are not too bad a speaker. The Ditton 10 has remarkable bass for the size. Treble, up to the limit of the 1300 (not that high) is pretty good.

The early Ditton 10's were 15 Ohm, were marked Studio Series, had heavy bitumen panels damping the inside of the cabinet and I reckon that they were possibly an inspiration for the LS3/5a

The limited (but good) treble of the 10's might make them good rear channel speakers for the Ditton 44.

It was ages ago (decades in fact), but I remember the Counties as nasal, overly dry and almost muffled in balance.

Macca
21-05-2011, 22:16
Thanks for your responses lads:)

Dave - I have toed them in a bit earlier tonight...just a little. Some more minor fettling to do I think. Incidentally it's also a thumbs up for the bargain basement Belkin AV speaker cable - my struggle to open the packaging was nothing short of heroic, I assure you:lol: - anyway - nothing wrong with it that I can hear.

Regards

Jac Hawk
22-05-2011, 13:12
Thanks for your responses lads:)

Dave - I have toed them in a bit earlier tonight...just a little. Some more minor fettling to do I think. Incidentally it's also a thumbs up for the bargain basement Belkin AV speaker cable - my struggle to open the packaging was nothing short of heroic, I assure you:lol: - anyway - nothing wrong with it that I can hear.

Regards

That Belkin Pure A/V speaker cable is deceptively good value, i use it on all my kit now, i don't think it's worth looking any further, nowt cheaper is as good and you have to pay considerably more to hear any real difference

Macca
22-05-2011, 18:02
That Belkin Pure A/V speaker cable is deceptively good value, i use it on all my kit now, i don't think it's worth looking any further, nowt cheaper is as good and you have to pay considerably more to hear any real difference

Yes, agree totally - I am going to order some more runs - the only issue I have with it is that it is a bit inflexible with that mesh screening, minor point I know but if you have WAF considerations it is a bit difficult to hide.

Quadraphonic
27-06-2011, 21:27
Hi to everyone, this is my first post, I live in Liverpool, uk, a firm hi fi buff without the anorak!! but very keen on decent sound, vinyl, I love Quadraphonic sound which ought to raise a couple of eyebrows, but my first post concerns the Celestion Ditton 44s.

I have four, predictably, and thought others might like to know what i have done with these in terms of restoration. Acutally very little, but all pretty far reaching.

First, I replaced the undersize binding posts with modern banana sockets. Beware, the metal plates on the earlier round post enclosures act as conductors.....you need something between, ok. I also replaced the wire between posts to crossover, and crossover to bass. The rest I think pretty adequate for now........:lol:

Next, I did not hesitate to replace the capacitors, thinking them well past their best. The inductors are excellent, so I left those well alone. The caps set me back about £40. At first, they sounded thinner, lighter and I though OMG!!! and wanted to reverse the work. But, I left them a good couple of months, and they truly opened up, bass is more extended but not boomy, they dig lower than ever I heard them, but remain very controlled. Lower notes of organ are certainly reproduced well below the stated bottom end of 25 Hz, I tried a CD of Liverpool cathedral organ and could catch bottom C!! 16 Hz.

The last thing I did was check the midrange enclosures, these are glued yes, but I noticed when I got these last year that the enclosures were not airtight (probably glue decomposing? cracking?), but moved with the 12 inch bass, ie the cone was being sucked in with the 12's movement. Not good. I PVA glued all four enclosures (bit of a pain!!....) , all of which leaked to varying degrees, and the midrange opened up amazingly. The bass was much the same, slightly tighter but not night and day. The big difference was the mid. Bright, very airy, musical, detailed.

A friend of mine had these babies years ago, I finally got four myself, as I was tired of small speaekrs failing to reproduce organ or orchestral stuff well and sounding wel....small!!!, these sound big and accurate, but amazingly uncoloured, even by todays standards.

Thanks for reading, hope this is of interest and maybe some help to you guys!!

Richard

The Grand Wazoo
28-06-2011, 14:04
Hi Richard,
Would you mind stopping by the Welcome section to introduce yourself to the natives? That's the best way to be sure of a warm welcome. Tell us a bit about yourself, the rest of your system & the music you like.

Cheers

pavalon
10-07-2011, 09:08
I'm considering a pair of classic Celestion speakers. The price of 15s are very resonable at the moment compared with the 44s. Are the Ditton 15s worth getting or is it worth up the budget a little and go for a pair of better sounding 44s ?

Macca
10-07-2011, 09:24
I'm considering a pair of classic Celestion speakers. The price of 15s are very resonable at the moment compared with the 44s. Are the Ditton 15s worth getting or is it worth up the budget a little and go for a pair of better sounding 44s ?

Never heard a 15 but they are quite different in their design from the 44 so I guess will have a different presentation too. The really important thing to take into account with these old Celestions is the drive unit condition. They're very old speakers now so I would not worry about which model so much as getting a very lightly used pair that will still be able to give their best.

DSJR
10-07-2011, 11:15
The 15's were rather coloured by the standards of the mid 70's, let alone today.. HOWEVER, a modern system and a re-wire/recap may help to change all that, so don't be put off.

The best vintage mini-Celestions are possibly the DL range, as these got good reviews, look a bit more modern and benefitted from more advanced driver design...

By the way, the Ditton 15 became the 15XR which Marco uses and likes. I believe these evolved into the Ditton 150, but I have no knowledge of these at all. Anyone ever heard them?

Mothman
05-06-2012, 16:18
Picked up a pair of 44's today courtesy of fellow forumer Lance aka 'Elvis's Last Movement' (thoroughly nice bloke). These appear to be of a similar vintage to Martin's pair as they have the veneered baffles and feeble terminal posts on a plastic circular insert. Unlike Martin's these cabinets are well worn with a few knocks and one tweeter has lost its rubber outer ring but it appears to be working OK, all this was reflected in the very generous price that Lance let them go for.:)
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/okmothman/Hi-Fi/Ditton44002.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/okmothman/Hi-Fi/Ditton44003.jpg

Have hooked them up to the A60 and will give them a good listen to see how they compare to my Audiomasters before deciding how to proceed with any restoration.

The Black Adder
05-06-2012, 18:49
OOOh... very nice, looking forward in hearing how they sound, they are in superb nick.

Mothman
05-06-2012, 19:10
Joe, they look alright from a distance but they do have signs of their 30+ year life when you get close up, should be a good basis for some restoration though.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/okmothman/Hi-Fi/Ditton44004.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/okmothman/Hi-Fi/Ditton44007.jpg

Reid Malenfant
05-06-2012, 19:21
Still in better condition than the enclosures of my Ditton 66 Rich :)

Mine look like they have been attacked by a pack of ravenous rats on speed :lol:

They still work as intended though, which is the main thing ;)

The Black Adder
05-06-2012, 19:30
Still not bad Rich... I'm sure those bits can be fixed up.

Mothman
05-06-2012, 19:48
I need to get a weeks listening under my belt before deciding how to proceed with the 44's and then bombarding you guy's for advice. Initial impressions are good but they are by no means wiping the floor with the Audiomasters, I think it maybe a close fight ;)

Mothman
16-06-2012, 14:29
Well I have lived with the 44’s for a couple of weeks and have to say that I really like them, they have that definite 70’s feel about them and can be listened to for hours with out any sense of fatigue. My listening room is the size of a single garage (cause that’s what it used to be) and I when I got the 44’s I was expecting them to be too much for a releatively small space, however I have found the base to be so polite and well controlled that I often forget that I’m listening to largish speakers and get a shock when I turn round to find two 12” base drivers staring back at me :lol:.

I think these are definitely going to be keepers and so now have to decide what to do them, the cabinet’s definitely need some work but I am a little unsure about how to go about this with the drivers in place.

For those that are interested in the oily bits, I also had a peek inside at a crossover. I have identified the values of some of the caps but some are unmarked, also not sure what type of caps the green ones are in the HF circuit

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/okmothman/Hi-Fi/Ditton44Crossover.jpg

Macca
16-06-2012, 14:41
Hi Rich

Your findings mirror mine in that despite the size of these speakers and the 12'' bass drivers they are certainly not a PA speaker. I cannot get the best out of them in my room but your's does sound close to ideal for them. I agree they are so easy to listen to and bass quality is superb. That crossover looks mint to me, do you think it is worth updating the components?

Wakefield Turntables
16-06-2012, 15:21
Rich,

I'm in the same position as you in that i'm now going to modify the hell out of the 44's I own. :cool: Quick tip. Remove all the drivers first and then restore the cabinets. Take lots of photo's. The cross-over has been extensively discussed on www.diyaudio.com just do a search of the threads for celestion 44 and not only will you get the values to your seeking but also some very good info on how to tweek them. I have the following mods planned.

1. Stiffen up the cab with more cross bracing
2. rebuild the x-o with silver instead of copper, replace all caps with silver based
versions.
3. brand new high purity silver/copper binding posts (or see point 8)
4. re-wire all units with teflon coated silver
5. replaced the dampening material
6. remount all the drivers with a 1mm sorbothane dampening ring
7. externally house the cross-over in aluminium and mumetal casing
8. Probably solder speaker cables direct to x-o so no need for binding posts
or a set of Eichmann's

Skys the limit really but just a few ideas to float your boat. :cool:

Mothman
16-06-2012, 18:20
Wow Andrew, that some list of mods you are planning:eek:. I had read a few threads re the crossover caps, there seems to be some discrepancy about the larger value cap on the Mid circuit I have seen values mentioned from 24uF to 33uf, I have ??uF+6uf in parallel.

Martin, I'm not sure what to do about the crossovers, what do you think? I had toy'd with the idea off changing the Mid & HF caps for some basic films such as Ansars or Claritycaps and then do a straight swap for new electrolytics on the base caps, this would keep the cost reasonable. However I think the necessary soldering skills would be beyond me and so I am currently trying to work out if I can refurb the cabinets with the drivers in place.

Macca
17-06-2012, 09:19
Martin, I'm not sure what to do about the crossovers, what do you think? I had toy'd with the idea off changing the Mid & HF caps for some basic films such as Ansars or Claritycaps and then do a straight swap for new electrolytics on the base caps, this would keep the cost reasonable. However I think the necessary soldering skills would be beyond me and so I am currently trying to work out if I can refurb the cabinets with the drivers in place.

lol I'm not the best person to ask - I'm in the If It Aint Broke Don't Fix It camp. Andrew's list is pretty exhaustive, I'd mix and match from that dependant on your skills and how much time/money you want to invest. Re the cab refurb you could tape up the drivers as though you were respraying a car. Have to be real careful though...

dantheman91
28-12-2012, 08:11
I have been offered a pair at £50 should i go for it

Rare Bird
28-12-2012, 08:18
Sounds good Dan, early ones with the hard wired X-Overs would be even better.

dantheman91
28-12-2012, 08:24
Excellent thanks.

Wakefield Turntables
28-12-2012, 11:18
I have been offered a pair at £50 should i go for it



YES

Wakefield Turntables
28-12-2012, 11:22
I must admit that I have been side tracked with this project. I decided I wanted to spend a little more time getting my valve setup upgraded. This has meant that I have replinthed and fully restored a garrard 301, had a SME 3012 full fettled, mess around with some JR149's, oh and trial out a new SUT. As you can see, I've been busy. The 44's are sittting in the loft, only to be restored at some point in the future. I sorry to say that i dont think it will be anytime soon :( I intend messing around with the power input to both my 1210 and valve setup next year. Maybe, mid 2013 and I'll have another rethink.

DSJR
28-12-2012, 11:23
Thing is, they have a very approachable and friendly sound to them in stock form - easy to live with once the size is taken into account :)

Macca
28-12-2012, 11:26
I have been offered a pair at £50 should i go for it

Good condition examples consistently fetch over £200 on eBay, even colection only so I would say yes, buy them. The drive units can be had cheap if they need replacing - except for the tweeters, that is.

Wakefield Turntables
28-12-2012, 11:27
Thing is, they have a very approachable and friendly sound to them in stock form - easy to live with once the size is taken into account :)

+1 mine are still in stock form at the moment, so this is still an option for any current owners. ;)

walpurgis
28-12-2012, 12:01
A pair of Ditton 44s at £50 is a bargain. They're worth buying just for the HF2000 tweeters and bass units are pretty decent too.

wiicrackpot
28-12-2012, 12:05
Martin,

This might be a solution for you, got a pair of 44's last year (reading from here to see what the fuss is about)only to find both tweeters gubbed, :doh:
after checking the going rate for the HF2000's, no way am i gonna drop £150 to £200 for a pair,
so i lashed up a fix with some Wharfedale Purple tweeters i had kicking around. both measured 4.5 ohm and working a treat,
not my main speakers but i must enlarge the magnet hole to drop them in someday, the outside diameter is perfect btw. :)

Pulled them out to take a couple of shots to let you see what i mean, note they sit on ipad packing to have them firing slightly downwards to give time alignment, sounding lovely as i type. :D

http://imageshack.us/a/img7/1596/002izc.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img801/7223/004sri.jpg

Macca
28-12-2012, 12:14
Hi Andy

No mine are in absolutely mint working order. I was just pointing out to Dan that if the mids or bass drivers are knackered you can get them quite cheap.

dantheman91
28-12-2012, 12:24
Going to view them tommorow. I'm not sure i really need them but i can make ap rofit on them anyway they hold their value

wiicrackpot
28-12-2012, 12:26
Hi Andy

No mine are in absolutely mint working order. I was just pointing out to Dan that if the mids or bass drivers are knackered you can get them quite cheap.
Then snap them up Martin, mine's are mark 1's and cost me £80.00, got them home only to find no HF, tested with a 9v battery and nothing,
what worked a treat was the 'P' clip connectors on the Wharfe's pushes into the tags on the front of the HF2000 and the grill even pushes in perfectly, :D
hence i never bothered doing a permanent fix in a vain hope i come across a pair of original tweets for sane price.

Good luck with it if you buy, they're very good. :cool:

P.S. only noticed it's Dan thats getting them, teach me to read through thread before doing anything. :rolleyes:

Macca
28-12-2012, 13:02
P.S. only noticed it's Dan thats getting them, teach me to read through thread before doing anything. :rolleyes:

lol..

Here is a piccie of mine:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/001-2.jpg

dantheman91
28-12-2012, 14:09
So how do they sound then guys.

Macca
28-12-2012, 14:20
They sound excellent. The only issue I have is the power handling - used in free space in my room - as per the picture - I can't really get enough volume without worrying about blowing them. Bear in mind I am sat 18' from the speakers. They need a wall behind them, ideally. Not something I can do in my room due to fireplace, doorways etc. They have some great strengths, particularly bass timing is spot on and also the sweet top end delicacy.

dantheman91
28-12-2012, 14:34
There going to be used at light volume. on 2 max I never play music loud :cool:

I have a fairly big room. I have a pair of target stand for them.

Macca
28-12-2012, 14:58
If you can get them close to a wall and on about 6 inch stands that would be about perfect. I'm afraid I am one of those people who likes to feel the bass power, ;) but they are not that sort of 'speaker although they have excellent bass, makes a mockery of a lot of contemporary speakers with their rows of 5 inch 'bass' drivers.

dantheman91
28-12-2012, 15:09
If you can get them close to a wall and on about 6 inch stands that would be about perfect. I'm afraid I am one of those people who likes to feel the bass power, ;) but they are not that sort of 'speaker although they have excellent bass, makes a mockery of a lot of contemporary speakers with their rows of 5 inch 'bass' drivers.



Will see how i get on.

Rare Bird
28-12-2012, 15:13
You don't see many '44 Series 2' (Not to be confused with the Mk.2), '442' & especially the '44 Legend' up for grabs..

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 12:19
Picked up the 44's this morning. one of the mids is knackard. but got the for even cheaper price.

Rare Bird
29-12-2012, 12:30
If you can't test it fit the mid from the other cab see if it still does'nt work

Macca
29-12-2012, 12:37
Picked up the 44's this morning. one of the mids is knackard. but got the for even cheaper price.

Replacement here: (bit pricier than usual though).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CELESTION-MF-6-MID-UNIT-EX-DITTON-44s-/121043380693?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item1c2ebf69d5

Rare Bird
29-12-2012, 12:41
The original '44' mid unit is called a 'D5'..

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 13:27
Is it worth replacing and fixing them.

Rare Bird
29-12-2012, 13:28
Might be nowt wrong with it if you try swapping around..

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 13:42
I have had a look they are soldered on. I think its working just not as crisp and clear as the other one.

Rare Bird
29-12-2012, 14:04
I have had a look they are soldered on. I think its working just not as crisp and clear as the other one.

If you do swap it over & it becomes clearer, you may have a duff Electrolytic within the Midrange 2nd order.. Theres a couple of Elco strapped together & a Single on the board..
I find it odd the Mid has gone duff.

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 14:10
If you do swap it over & it becomes clearer, you may have a duff Electrolytic within the Midrange 2nd order.. Theres a couple of Elco strapped together & a Single on the board..
I find it odd the Mid has gone duff.



Hi

Maybe they need to be used they have been sat for 10 years plus. The mid is rustaling when pushed in and out. rotated 180 deg still no luck.

run me by how to swap them over.

Rare Bird
29-12-2012, 14:35
If they are soldered your gonna need a iron, be carefull soldering on the unit terminal, attach a miniture crock clip to dissipate some of the heat, as a temp measure you could cut the wire, transfer unit from other speaker, twist the wires back together wrap some electrical tape around the twist.

What you are trying to establish is weither one of the caps is duff or the unit, caps need replacing anyway..Im assuming you have an early pair with brown hard wired boards when you say they are soldred?

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 14:57
If they are soldered your gonna need a iron, be carefull soldering on the unit terminal, attach a miniture crock clip to dissipate some of the heat, as a temp measure you could cut the wire, transfer unit from other speaker, twist the wires back together wrap some electrical tape around the twist.

What you are trying to establish is weither one of the caps is duff or the unit, caps need replacing anyway..Im assuming you have an early pair with brown hard wired boards when you say they are soldred?



Hi

Just seeing if the unit is faulty. Got them home hooked them up :rolleyes: Called the guy he said they have never been tested and were sat in the loft for 10 years plus he was given them by a sound engineer who toured with bon jovi and queen. He said come back and collect your money and you can keep them as they need space :ner::. The condition is not too bad could be worse. The tweets have the grills missing.

Macca
29-12-2012, 14:59
They don't appear to be the original tweeters

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 15:02
They don't appear to be the original tweeters


Your right. I think their from the mk2's

Rare Bird
29-12-2012, 15:05
They are 'HF2000' it's just the dust caps are missing from the diaphram.. You could buy new T2373 kits at one time..

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 15:06
[

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 16:53
Can buy a mid for £14. but!!!

Rare Bird
29-12-2012, 16:54
Have you tested it then Dan?

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 17:02
Have you tested it then Dan?



Hi

What shall i do? unscrew and take the midrange driver out.

Rare Bird
29-12-2012, 17:12
Post #111 Dan, were just trying to establish if it's the Driver or one of the X-Over caps that's the problem, the other mid range unit is ok.so by swaping them over the seemingly duff one should then sound ok, if it does'nt it's the unit that's the problem.

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 18:04
Its the driver thats faulty.

Rare Bird
29-12-2012, 18:06
still the same is it?

dantheman91
29-12-2012, 18:38
still the same is it?


Yes.


Shall i buy the driver from that well known place.

dantheman91
30-12-2012, 07:37
The midrange is completly gone. Nothing from it.

So i think a £30 replacement i a good deal

AlfaGTV
30-12-2012, 08:54
Sorry bout the midrange Dan, but once that is fixed you'll have a very nice pair of speakers! Actually, yours are identical to my pair, except for the missing tweeter grille. I changed the horrible greybrown cloth to a black one and the all of a sudden look a lot more contemporary! ;)
http://www.ollars.net/hififorum/CD44_01.JPG

http://www.ollars.net/hififorum/CD44_02.JPG

Regards //Mike

Mothman
30-12-2012, 11:15
Dan, if you can get them fixed up for £30 it's a no brainer, as others have said a pair of working tweeters will sell for much more if it doesn't work out and you have to break them (perish the thought).

Post 77 has a picture of a crossover out of my pair if you need a reference.

dantheman91
30-12-2012, 12:37
Dan, if you can get them fixed up for £30 it's a no brainer, as others have said a pair of working tweeters will sell for much more if it doesn't work out and you have to break them (perish the thought).

Post 77 has a picture of a crossover out of my pair if you need a reference.



Cheers they were free so. fix them up and use them. how are you finding yours

wiicrackpot
30-12-2012, 13:04
No brainer, once sorted could be really good.

Since pulling mine's out for the purpose of pics with blotched Wharfedale tweeters, i am enjoying them immensely,
the old boy who sold them to me said the crossovers have been serviced a while back,
that maybe has a bearing on what i am getting out of them besides the Wharfedale tweeters working surprisingly good,
while i've never heard Hf2000's, i am getting a nice crisp/airyness without the whiteish colouration of some metal domes,
nice mid, smooth, even, not overly warm, bass doesn't down as far as it's 12'inch suggests but nicely rounded,pacey/punchy sound,
not kick in the chest kind but not a'' bitch slap'' either, somewhere in between.

Overall, while not as charming, clearcut, beguiling, and realism as my previous Harbeth SHL5's,
or the dynamic kick,immediacy or easy dynamics of my current Tannoy 12' MG's,
(bear in mind i am not comparing but barely using them as yardsticks), the Ditton 44 are great performers, even handed and makes playing music ''FUN'',
i didn't analyse too much,i am not very good at describing things so maybe the vets on here could chip in to correct what i've wrote. :)

wii.

dantheman91
30-12-2012, 17:50
Mine should be up a running within the week.

:D

DSJR
30-12-2012, 21:23
Tweeter grille:

I'm probably even more off my trolley than usual, but I read recently that the tweeter grille for the LS3/5A was nicked from the Celestion HF2000 unit. if so, these grilles MAY be available for sale from Stirling Broadcast, who make the pukka V2 LS3/5A (similar balance but better sound from modern drive units).

Well worth asking anyway and some of their parts are on eBay in their shop.....

dantheman91
31-12-2012, 08:34
Tweeter grille:

I'm probably even more off my trolley than usual, but I read recently that the tweeter grille for the LS3/5A was nicked from the Celestion HF2000 unit. if so, these grilles MAY be available for sale from Stirling Broadcast, who make the pukka V2 LS3/5A (similar balance but better sound from modern drive units).

Well worth asking anyway and some of their parts are on eBay in their shop.....



Hi

Contacted them

thanks

Mothman
01-01-2013, 10:47
Cheers they were free so. fix them up and use them. how are you finding yours

I love em, picked mine up cheap just as an experiment to see what they were like and I haven't been dissapointed, been my main speakers ever since. Other than their size they are very easy to live with. As Macca has already said, if you have a big space to fill (I don't) and lots of bass is your thing then there are probably better choices but otherwise I think they are great, especially if you can get yours working for little money :).

dantheman91
01-01-2013, 11:25
I rember my dad's old 66's. I'm sure i will love these. The condition is excellent just need to polish them up. I have a beautiful vintage Quad 33 / 303 to go with them.

I can fix them cheap really cheap so everyones a winner.

wiicrackpot
01-01-2013, 14:44
I can fix them cheap really cheap so everyones a winner.
....not from the seller's POV. :D

Have reeled mine's away and pressed my Tannoy's back in service and there's no contest,through my set up and room,they just have more of everything,
wider,deeper,way more open and better dynamic shading,singers seem more real and instruments seems to come from a more defined bigger soundstage,
and bandwidth the 44's just couldn't match, infact my other sulking speakers (40kg of homebuilt Spendor SP100r clones)
are much nearer and would happily live with them before i'd settle for the 44's,
but hey.... i've tried them and they are still good in their own way.

Let us have your views when you're done. :cool:

dantheman91
04-01-2013, 12:01
The Mid has arrived. There now running and sounding very sweet.

Very low volume to warm them up a bit.
:D

walpurgis
04-01-2013, 14:50
....not from the seller's POV. :D

Have reeled mine's away and pressed my Tannoy's back in service and there's no contest,through my set up and room,they just have more of everything,
wider,deeper,way more open and better dynamic shading,singers seem more real and instruments seems to come from a more defined bigger soundstage,
and bandwidth the 44's just couldn't match, infact my other sulking speakers (40kg of homebuilt Spendor SP100r clones)
are much nearer and would happily live with them before i'd settle for the 44's,
but hey.... i've tried them and they are still good in their own way.

Let us have your views when you're done. :cool:

What Tannoys?

I've owned Ditton 44s and whilst they're pleasant and OK for the money they can still be picked up for (although I've seen a few sellers asking loony prices), they won't seriously compare to any decent Tannoy. The Ditton 66 is another story though, it competes well against the bigger Tannoys, albeit with a totally different presentation.

The 44s let down is the midrange driver, it's just not that incisive or tranparent and is expected to extend quite a way into the upper frequency ranges, crossing over to a tweeter that really only comes into its own above about 7kHz.

In theory, I suppose the 66 midrange unit could be used in the 44 along with the 66 crossover. That might be worthwhile, as it should be just a straightforward substitution job (with minor cabinet mods) and you'd only be losing out on the deepest bass in comparison.

dantheman91
04-01-2013, 15:06
There sounding good at the moment just running them up.

dantheman91
04-01-2013, 18:39
These are FANTASTIC very happy with them.

:cool:

Rare Bird
04-01-2013, 18:48
Good Dan
Maybe a capacitor upgrade will be in order now but don't let other people put you off the '44's', a lot of people tend to compare modern speaker sound to vintage sound claiming the vintage are crap in comparison, this get on my titz & is of course a totally foolish thing to say in the first place..

dantheman91
04-01-2013, 19:00
Good Dan
Maybe a capacitor upgrade will be in order now but don't let other people put you off the '44's', a lot of people tend to compare modern speaker sound to vintage sound claiming the vintage are crap in comparison, this get on my titz & is of course a totally foolish thing to say in the first place..



Hey

The modern equivelent would just not be the same you would need to spend thousends i think. It was a cheap fix. I just love stuff from this era or earlier i belive the celestions are 1974!

They are quite room friendly once you get used to there size. I have them raised about 6 inches from the floor the bass is sweet and punchy. The mid and highs are great. The BBC spec HF2000's come into there own. For a free pair of speakers i can't complain. I'm just running them in with my denon amplifier for the time being. They still retain their quality down low.

Rare Bird
04-01-2013, 19:10
Hi Dan
I was trying to say that Bright detailed in your face & all that is some peoples idea of good sounding speakers :spew:

I don't know what vintage yours are but the '44's were out around 1972

dantheman91
04-01-2013, 19:13
Hi Dan
I was trying to say that Bright detailed in your face & all that is some peoples idea of good sounding speakers :spew:

I don't know what vintage yours are but the '44's are around 1972




1972! even better. Well each to their own buddy. :cool: These are currently ticking the boxes.

Rare Bird
04-01-2013, 19:15
Great stuff Dan they are nice speakers, Vintage all the way with me..

dantheman91
04-01-2013, 19:20
Great stuff Dan they are nice speakers, Vintage all the way with me..



:cool:

Can't go wrong

Rare Bird
04-01-2013, 21:26
If you got a pair of aluminium plates lazer cut the same shape of the '44' Mid Range units, but cut out to mount a pair of Celestion 'MF500' mid range units, thay may work well.

Marco
04-01-2013, 22:43
The Ditton 66 is another story though, it competes well against the bigger Tannoys, albeit with a totally different presentation.


Owning and using both on a daily basis, I would concur with that assessment :)

The very different presentation, however, never ceases to both amaze and delight me in equal measures... It's great having the choice of using two such superb pairs of speakers! :cool:

Andre is right - modern speakers just don't have the same richness of tone or addictive musicality. It's patently obvious when you listen!

Marco.

Rare Bird
04-01-2013, 22:52
Andre is right - modern speakers just don't have the same richness of tone or addictive musicality. It's patently obvious when you listen!



Exactly the reason it knobz me orf when people buy Components/Hi-Fi strickly on spekificati'oo'n :nono:

wiicrackpot
04-01-2013, 23:34
What Tannoys?

Geoff, 12''inch Monitor Gold's, think you've mis-read my post, i wasn't saying the 44's were better than my MG's, it's the other way round, :)
i actually agree with 99% of all your input i've read on here, just that i don't normally get involved with technical threads as i don't know what i am talking about,
just that OP asked for opinions, he's a happy camper and thats all that matters. :cool:

I am with RB regarding most people's assumption regarding bright speakers as good detail/fast sound, don't do bright either.

The Grand Wazoo
05-01-2013, 00:07
Bright detailed in your face & all that is some peoples idea of good sounding speakers

If you like having your scalp surgically removed, it's great............for about 10 minutes. After that, folks think their front end or amp needs upgrading because the shiny new speakers sound amazing and, funnily enough they can't listen to music anymore. Can't be those amazing new speakers though can it?

dantheman91
05-01-2013, 09:48
It looks like these are staying. Thanks for the help guys.

:D

Marco
05-01-2013, 10:47
Great speakers, Dan - you'll not go wrong with them! :)

Marco.

dantheman91
05-01-2013, 11:08
Great speakers, Dan - you'll not go wrong with them! :)

Marco.



Well Happy. Playing a bit of Charlie Haden & Pat Methany - Beyond The Missouri Sky the scale and depth is superb.


:cool:

walpurgis
05-01-2013, 15:34
Geoff, 12''inch Monitor Gold's, think you've mis-read my post, i wasn't saying the 44's were better than my MG's, it's the other way round, :)
i actually agree with 99% of all your input i've read on here, just that i don't normally get involved with technical threads as i don't know what i am talking about,
just that OP asked for opinions, he's a happy camper and thats all that matters. :cool:

I am with RB regarding most people's assumption regarding bright speakers as good detail/fast sound, don't do bright either.

Yeah, I got the gist of what you were saying Andy.

I was just curious to know which Tannoys you'd made the comparison with, as Tannoys are very much my thing and have been since I got interested in Hi-Fi.

I'm not knocking the Ditton 44s, I think they are a pleasant listen, but I was pointing out their limitations, every speaker has them. As you suggest, a pair of decent Tannoys will win out, as they would against most speakers.

wiicrackpot
05-01-2013, 17:18
Yeah, I got the gist of what you were saying Andy.

I was just curious to know which Tannoys you'd made the comparison with, as Tannoys are very much my thing and have been since I got interested in Hi-Fi.

I'm not knocking the Ditton 44s, I think they are a pleasant listen, but I was pointing out their limitations, every speaker has them. As you suggest, a pair of decent Tannoys will win out, as they would against most speakers.
Good Geoff, no confusion, apart from tannoy's, have noted through various posts you rate some vintage British speakers like i do and been all ears when you post something on them, :cool: would really like a pair of Tannoy 15'inch Gold's though but it's not gonna happen anytime soon.:(

Cheers!

walpurgis
05-01-2013, 18:50
Good Geoff, no confusion, apart from tannoy's, have noted through various posts you rate some vintage British speakers like i do and been all ears when you post something on them, :cool: would really like a pair of Tannoy 15'inch Gold's though but it's not gonna happen anytime soon.:(

Cheers!

The 15" Gold is a lovely unit, however, there are a number of other Tannoy D/C drivers that are capable of superb results. The 15" HPD gives little away to the Gold really and is also capable of spectacular results.

One Tannoy driver not to be underestimated is the 'little' HPD 295A from the Eaton. I've owned five pairs of these. It may only be a 10" driver, but still packs a wallop and used with good valve amplification it sounds sublime, It's not related to the preceding 10" IIILZ, its actually a ten inch version of the 12" Gold. It does not have the less popular Girdacoustic cone bracing of the larger HPDs, and has a cleaner midrange and also has butyl rubber surrounds that seem to last forever. I've always found it far smoother and cleaner than the 12" HPD and sweeter at the top even than the 12" Gold, which is odd as they all use the same tweeter, but I've done the comparisons. The 295 however, cries out for a bigger cabinet than the Eaton jobbie. I'd love to put a pair in either decent sized transmission line or horn cabinets, that should work beautifully.

wiicrackpot
05-01-2013, 19:15
Yes, noticed your love for the 295A and have peeked my interest up on it, once i happen on a pair cheap, then i'll strike. ;)

As you have mentioned about it being let down by too small a cabinet,lets twist this a bit, do you think the 295A's go well in Ditton 44 cabs, :eek:
yes i am thinking about gutting my pair and selling my drivers and crossovers and using the cabs to house a pair,
the chances of me sourcing a proper pair of HF2000's are nil, i won't even entertain the stupid prices asked for them.

walpurgis
05-01-2013, 19:53
Yes, noticed your love for the 295A and have peeked my interest up on it, once i happen on a pair cheap, then i'll strike. ;)

As you have mentioned about it being let down by too small a cabinet,lets twist this a bit, do you think the 295A's go well in Ditton 44 cabs, :eek:
yes i am thinking about gutting my pair and selling my drivers and crossovers and using the cabs to house a pair,
the chances of me sourcing a proper pair of HF2000's are nil, i won't even entertain the stupid prices asked for them.

Well, I'm sure the HPD 295A would work in a cabinet the size of the Ditton 44, but the front baffles are not removable and blanking off the driver holes and re-cutting to suit a ten inch driver sounds like an awful lot of messing about.

Anyhow, I'm sure there are other tweeters about which would work in the Ditton 44, as long as you have the impedance close (6 ohm) the existing crossover should be OK, you'd need something fairly near in sensitivity, but a db. or so either way is unlikely to hurt.

Check out this HF2000 replacement tweeter:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seas-19TFF-1-H0737-08-Tweeter-Celestion-HF2000-replacement-/160877392162?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Speaker_Parts&hash=item25750a3122

The HF 2000 is not scarce, although prices are rising. A couple of years ago you'd have got a pair for about £70, but I've seen people asking over £200 lately. I've still got a late mint pair from the Celestion UL10 speakers and I'm rather keen to hang onto them unfortunately.

spendorman
05-01-2013, 20:02
The Peerless tweeter in the JPW Golds, that can be bought very cheaply, work well in the Ditton 44 as a substitute for the HF2000.

wiicrackpot
05-01-2013, 20:26
Well, I'm sure the HPD 295A would work in a cabinet the size of the Ditton 44, but the front baffles are not removable and blanking off the driver holes and re-cutting to suit a ten inch driver sounds like an awful lot of messing about.

Anyhow, I'm sure there are other tweeters about which would work in the Ditton 44, as long as you have the impedance close (6 ohm) the existing crossover should be OK, you'd need something fairly near in sensitivity, but a db. or so either way is unlikely to hurt.

Check out this HF2000 replacement tweeter:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seas-19TFF-1-H0737-08-Tweeter-Celestion-HF2000-replacement-/160877392162?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Speaker_Parts&hash=item25750a3122

Geoff, reason i am thinking about butchering the 44 cabs is the recess could work, i could turn the cab upside down,
the 12'inch hole will definitely have enough clearance for the 295A magnets,
and bang a new baffle on with crosshead screw BBC monitor style, we're away, just a thought mind. :D

Yeah, i have seen those replacements before thanks.

The Peerless tweeter in the JPW Golds, that can be bought very cheaply, work well in the Ditton 44 as a substitute for the HF2000.
Thanks Alex, 1st i heard Peerless as a possible, TBH the Wharfedale tweeters i have works a treat. :)

wiicrackpot
05-01-2013, 20:43
.........or i could use these.
http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/145/dscf2953x.jpg
http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/21/dscf2955t.jpg
http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/221/dscf2957d.jpg

but i'm reluctant to do so as i am enjoying them so much, absolute belting so they are,
plus i'd rather house some big JBL or Altec's in them if i was to do anything else with them. :rolleyes:

walpurgis
05-01-2013, 20:44
Just had a poke about on eBay. These look close enough to work, 5 ohms impedance and the dimensions are about right, the sensitivity isn't known, but any excess ouput can be trimmed with a cheap L pad. Not to mention they're dirt cheap and being Yamaha they'll probably sound OK. The slight difference in impedance shouldn't matter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170962921156?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Rare Bird
05-01-2013, 20:48
I forget which model but one of the Seas Tweeters we a great replacement.

wiicrackpot
05-01-2013, 20:57
Just had a poke about on eBay. These look close enough to work, 5 ohms impedance and the dimensions are about right, the sensitivity isn't known, but any excess ouput can be trimmed with a cheap L pad. Not to mention they're dirt cheap and being Yamaha they'll probably sound OK. The slight difference in impedance shouldn't matter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170962921156?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Oh...those look tasty, i am tempted to try them instead of the real mcCoys or the Seas replacements.

I forget which model but one of the Seas Tweeters we a great replacement.
Geoff linked them on #157.

spendorman
05-01-2013, 21:02
Geoff, reason i am thinking about butchering the 44 cabs is the recess could work, i could turn the cab upside down,
the 12'inch hole will definitely have enough clearance for the 295A magnets,
and bang a new baffle on with crosshead screw BBC monitor style, we're away, just a thought mind. :D

Yeah, i have seen those replacements before thanks.

Thanks Alex, 1st i heard Peerless as a possible, TBH the Wharfedale tweeters i have works a treat. :)

I guess that the Peerless will be a bit smoother that the Wharefdale tweeter.

wiicrackpot
05-01-2013, 21:12
Just had a poke about on eBay. These look close enough to work, 5 ohms impedance and the dimensions are about right, the sensitivity isn't known, but any excess ouput can be trimmed with a cheap L pad. Not to mention they're dirt cheap and being Yamaha they'll probably sound OK. The slight difference in impedance shouldn't matter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170962921156?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Just measured the hole in my 44's, 100mm outer and 65mm inner holes, probably have to do cosmetic work on the inner hole to pass the Yammy magnets through, bought them anyway thanks Geoff. :)


I guess that the Peerless will be a bit smoother that the Wharefdale tweeter.
Probably Alex, but there wasn't any imbalance and thats what i was happy with, i won't know now as i have committed to another brand. :eyebrows:

walpurgis
05-01-2013, 21:57
Just measured the hole in my 44's, 100mm outer and 65mm inner holes, probably have to do cosmetic work on the inner hole to pass the Yammy magnets through, bought them anyway thanks Geoff.

I just looked at eBay and saw they'd gone. Wondered if it was you. Let me know how it works out.

I don't expect you to have any issues, but just as a precaution, in case there's a problem or mismatch to deal with. I'd suggest trying them wired to the tweeter connection wires, but outside the cabinets before you do any carpentry. You'll still get a fair idea of how the completed installation will sound.

Rare Bird
05-01-2013, 22:01
Geoff linked them on #157.

oops! not paying attention :o

wiicrackpot
05-01-2013, 22:09
I just looked at eBay and saw they'd gone. Wondered if it was you. Let me know how it works out.

I don't expect you to have any issues, but just as a precaution, in case there's a problem or mismatch to deal with. I'd suggest trying them wired to the tweeter connection wires, but outside the cabinets before you do any carpentry. You'll still get a fair idea of how the completed installation will sound.
Will do.


oops! not paying attention :o
S'ok, i do that all the time, bloody attention deficit i have.

wiicrackpot
08-01-2013, 13:30
Got my Yammy tweeters, looks really nice little units, holes have to be widen for magnets and slightly larger baffle diameter has to be covered by a gasket to look right, working till 9pm this week so will tackle it in the weekend. :(

dantheman91
08-01-2013, 14:29
Still running mine.

Mothman
08-01-2013, 19:52
There is a good thread on the vintage radio forum regarding tweeter replacement, well worth a read if considering :)

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55474

wiicrackpot
08-01-2013, 22:14
Still running mine.
Good, long may it continue. :cool:


There is a good thread on the vintage radio forum regarding tweeter replacement, well worth a read if considering :)

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55474
Thanks, will trawl through that once i'm fed and rested, :) never knew about that site before.

wiicrackpot
09-01-2013, 12:32
Can't wait till the weekend so went out to buy spade connectors and duly crimped,don't want to solder incase i didn't like the sound so easier to move on,
sounding lovely so just the matter of widening the hole on the baffle,was thinking of borrowing a hole drill bit but feel a bit unsure,
as i will be drilling it freehand and there being a existing 65mm hole there already, anyone any ideas. :scratch:

http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/854/001hsd.jpg

walpurgis
09-01-2013, 19:25
Hi Andy, glad things sound promising.

A hole saw is not the right tool to widen an existing hole as you'd have no way of centering it and it would wander about chewing wood up. I don't know how much material you need to remove, but it can't be much. I reckon a rotary rasp in a drill will probably do it OK. Just take it very gently and finish off with a hand file and sandpaper.

Rare Bird
09-01-2013, 20:24
Bloody Cowboys :rolleyes:

1: Router:
2: Deep Profile trimmer bit (Bearing at the top (none cutting end) of the cutter/at the base of the shank)
3: Piece of 1/4''' MDF to make a cut out template for the router)

The MDF wants to be long enough for you to use the Mid Range unit fixing ter hold it in place.. Once you made perfect cutout in you MDF template you can't go wrong really.

Will the new tweeter completely cover the old faceplate recess?

walpurgis
09-01-2013, 20:50
"Cowboys" indeed!

I was just trying to keep it simple Andre. I agree, a router would do a nice job, but I suspect Andy's bit of woodwork is a small one off and unless he's going to do more, a router and cutter bits is quite an expensive investment.

Any work done with a rasp will be hidden and if done with care should be adequate.

Rare Bird
09-01-2013, 21:11
"Cowboys" indeed!



:lol: I'd be climbing the walls if i knew i had an hand trimmed cut out behind my tweeters :D

wiicrackpot
09-01-2013, 22:34
Hi Andy, glad things sound promising.

A hole saw is not the right tool to widen an existing hole as you'd have no way of centering it and it would wander about chewing wood up. I don't know how much material you need to remove, but it can't be much. I reckon a rotary rasp in a drill will probably do it OK. Just take it very gently and finish off with a hand file and sandpaper.
Yes Geoff, sounded braw and thanks for the heads up btw, ;)

Been thinking at work today and think the hole saw idea is doable but only if i made a 5mm thick template with outer circumference,
held in place by the 3 clamps then criss cross to find centre, then drill the whole way through,
but will the template be thick enough give me enough purchase to stop hole saw drill bit from going off centre. :scratch:


Bloody Cowboys :rolleyes:

1: Router:
2: Deep Profile trimmer bit (Bearing at the top (none cutting end) of the cutter/at the base of the shank)
3: Piece of 1/4''' MDF to make a cut out template for the router)

The MDF wants to be long enough for you to use the Mid Range unit fixing ter hold it in place.. Once you made perfect cutout in you MDF template you can't go wrong really.

Will the new tweeter completely cover the old faceplate recess?
Don't hold back dude. :D

Point #1 is out, can't get a hold of a router whereas i coiuld borrow a hole saw bit from work, lost me #2 and thought about point #3.

The tweeter won't cover the recess being slightly smaller than original, but thats o.k., i am gonna make a gasket from non slip mat that'll cover the slight exposed ring or i could just paint the recessed bit black, either way it'll be fine.

Rare Bird
09-01-2013, 23:14
:) As long as you get a good seal, You could fit some tweeter absorption pads over the new face plates which will disguise the gap..

http://www.diffractionbegone.com/newblankcontact.html

wiicrackpot
09-01-2013, 23:22
The seal is no problem, the tweeters actually have very thin foam backing to seal them to the baffle, quite nifty wee tweeters, anything i am doing is just cosmetic. :)

walpurgis
09-01-2013, 23:47
The way you propose to use the hole saw is feasible, but you could just cut a bit of MDF round to fit the existing holes and glue it in, then you could mark the centre and drill away with the hole saw.

Rare Bird
09-01-2013, 23:51
Is it possible to unscrew the new tweeters from the face plates?

I was thinking you could have a pair of faceplaces lazer cut, mount the new tweeter domes in em, bobs your uncle perfect fitting tweeters. :eyebrows:

walpurgis
09-01-2013, 23:57
Is it possible to unscrew the new tweeters from the face plates?

I was thinking you could have a pair of faceplaces lazer cut, mount the new tweeter domes in em, bobs your uncle perfect fitting tweeters. :eyebrows:

Sorry Andre, but NO, NO, don't do it! Because the diaphragms and voicecoils come away with the faceplate and then you'll have the whole nightmare of centering the voicecoils in their gaps. You'll have no way of knowing if you've got it right.

If there's a gap round the edge of the tweeters just put some black foam sealing strip around and nobody will ever know the difference. (I'll send you some if you need it)

Rare Bird
09-01-2013, 23:58
Ok Geoff .Ive not had any hands on with the tweeter in question, it was just an idea.. i know you can with the old Audax tweeters..

wiicrackpot
20-01-2013, 19:26
Spent last week deciding how best to tackle this without making a pigs ear, discarded the template idea after making 2 templates for it.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/443/018va.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/018va.jpg/)
got a piece of foam backing from shirt packaging, yogurt pot and sharp stanley.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/818/011bhl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/011bhl.jpg/)
borrowed the tools needed today, rasp and half round file.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/705/012vfi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/012vfi.jpg/)
having drilled out the inside edge with a 1.5mm drill bit, the rasping and filing only took 5 mins to get to the desired diameter.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/338/003yhv.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/003yhv.jpg/)
having cut out the outer diamater with the yogurt pot firmly pressd onto the foam, turned the pot over and cut the inside and ended up with the exact gasket size.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/690/005wkc.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/005wkc.jpg/)
did a dry run before using Pritt stick to hold the gasket in place.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/35/002phm.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/002phm.jpg/)
happy with the result so clamped the tweeter in place.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/838/007slu.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/007slu.jpg/)

now playing sweet music, prove to be a brilliant match, the purple Wharfedale tweeter sound spitty by comparison. :)

walpurgis
21-01-2013, 00:33
Nice one Andy.

It looks very good. The slightly larger dome should actually be better suited to taking up where the 5" mid leaves off than the original HF2000 was.

If the gasket curls up a bit at the edges when the tweeter is tightened into place, just glue the gasket into the recess and it won't happen.

Glad it worked out for you.


Geoff.

(P.S. I expect Andr'e will have something to say when he sees the woodwork though, he has perfectionist standards, mind you it is hidden)

Rare Bird
21-01-2013, 02:46
:eek:

:lol:

wiicrackpot
21-01-2013, 08:56
Nice one Andy.

It looks very good. The slightly larger dome should actually be better suited to taking up where the 5" mid leaves off than the original HF2000 was.

If the gasket curls up a bit at the edges when the tweeter is tightened into place, just glue the gasket into the recess and it won't happen.

Glad it worked out for you.


Geoff.

(P.S. I expect Andr'e will have something to say when he sees the woodwork though, he has perfectionist standards, mind you it is hidden)
Geoff,

Considering my limited resources and lack of workspace, all done with me straddling it on the living room floor as can be seen the tip of my slippers,
it's not too bad, the hole template idea was shelved as i don't think i could hold it in position without anything for the centering drill bit to bite into.

Get what you're saying about the finish could be better, i could have spent longer and wrap a sheet of sandpaper round a aerosol can to round it off nicely,
but it's covered up and everything is retrofitable if i get a set of HF2000 in future, (hardly likely,have you seen the pair that went for £226.00 last week):eek:,
the gasket works a dream, was gonna cut up a sheet of non-slip mat but had this lying around and thought it'd be better. :)

Finally, many thanks to you for the heads-up on this replacement tweeter. :cool:



:eek:

:lol:
Andr'e

Is that a very impressed/horrified Eeek !!....or shockingly bad belly bursting Lol !!....., i could always take it all apart and sand it real round,
as long as i have my tub, i could make more gaskets. :D

dantheman91
21-01-2013, 09:10
Pics of my 44's

wiicrackpot
21-01-2013, 09:44
Lovely, bet you have problems deciding which is better between 44's and the Rogers.

Moved clutter in the foreground to add final pics.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n0llqru9t2j475h/2003-01-01%2000.04.22.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5l58tt9abfmziry/2003-01-01%2000.00.10.jpg?m

Rogues gallery are from left to right:

401 (project) on freebie Goodmans C.D player from midi system (all C.D. players sound the same) :scratch::lol:.
Meridian 101/104/105 Mono's.
LFD MMC stage.
Tim de P - TX4 ''the head'' SUT
401 + SME IV (main deck)

DSJR
21-01-2013, 20:08
GET THOSE BLOODY 44's OFF THE FLOOR - unless you like boom posing as bass...... Been there and dun it yonks ago and still remember how much better they were once lifted 10 to 12 inches off the floor...

Wakefield Turntables
21-01-2013, 20:31
Two garrard 401's! Nice.

Rare Bird
21-01-2013, 20:35
(P.S. I expect Andr'e will have something to say when he sees the woodwork though, he has perfectionist standards, mind you it is hidden)

Thats just as bad, if something isnt finished to the same high standards internally as externally it will equally do my nut in :lol:

wiicrackpot
21-01-2013, 21:17
GET THOSE BLOODY 44's OFF THE FLOOR - unless you like boom posing as bass...... Been there and dun it yonks ago and still remember how much better they were once lifted 10 to 12 inches off the floor...
Easier said than done Dave when not my prime speakers, defo not gonna drop a 100 quid for low stands when i don't even know if i'm gonna keep them. :)


Two garrard 401's! Nice.
Yes Andrew, snagged that flat strobed (what i always wanted) one over Christmas cheap when everyone was stuffed and lying in a stupor. :cool:


Thats just as bad, if something isnt finished to the same high standards internally as externally it will equally do my nut in :lol:
Got the message of what....
:eek:

and that..
:lol:

...means now Andr'e, S'ok, i've got broad shoulders. :D

Rare Bird
21-01-2013, 22:20
Don't worry Andy no everyones as nutz as me (I don't think anyone is tbh) :D

wiicrackpot
22-01-2013, 12:05
Have noticed some Ditton 44's have lost their metal mesh tweeter covers for the HF2000,
is there any interest on my pair before i toss them in the bin?, perfect in every way,
all it needs is the thinnest sliver of double sided tape cut to shape and job jobbed.

PM me with details if interested and i'll pop them in the post FOC.

P.S. Been listening to these and are stupid good btw, as Dave said a bit boomy at higher volumn levels as it's on the floor but they are braw in everyway.

dantheman91
22-01-2013, 12:29
Have noticed some Ditton 44's have lost their metal mesh tweeter covers for the HF2000,
is there any interest on my pair before i toss them in the bin?, perfect in every way,
all it needs is the thinnest sliver of double sided tape cut to shape and job jobbed.

PM me with details if interested and i'll pop them in the post FOC.

P.S. Been listening to these and are stupid good btw, as Dave said a bit boomy at higher volumn levels as it's on the floor but they are braw in everyway.


Hi

Do they have the grilles. if not no problem i will take them.

wiicrackpot
22-01-2013, 12:33
Dan,

It's the metal grills, the perimeter paper can't be retrieved, my attempts at taking them off just tore them, PM details and i'll drop them in the post.

dantheman91
22-01-2013, 12:39
Dan,

It's the metal grills, the perimeter paper can't be retrieved, my attempts at taking them off just tore them, PM details and i'll drop them in the post.



PM sent

DSJR
22-01-2013, 13:07
Metal grilles are available, just ask Stirling Broadcast in the first instance...

Regarding getting them off the floor, you don't need £100+ stands. What about good old decorative house-bricks or breeze blocks for research purposes.........?

Macca
22-01-2013, 13:22
I used stands of 12 inch tall and that is really a bit too much. 6 to 8 inches would be best, you don't want to move the bass driver too far from the floor boundary or you lose too much bass. A couple of thick, hardback books will do in a pinch.

dantheman91
22-01-2013, 13:59
I have now put mine on 6 inch target stands.

Rare Bird
22-01-2013, 15:31
Target didnt exist in 1972 :) You lot tryin' yer modern wayz voodoo on proper speekas :lol: Get some tilt back jobbies for the real aurfentic look loike.. :eyebrows:

Marco
22-01-2013, 16:20
Actually, the vintage ones will probably also perform better, as experience has shown me that in some instances castors can sound better than spikes! Think why a company today like Shahinian use them on their speakers.... ;)

Also, I like the way that the speakers are coupled firmly to the stands, on the vintage 'tilt back' jobbies - defo way better than using Blu Tak on a daft little metal top plate! :exactly:

Marco.

dantheman91
22-01-2013, 16:47
The targets will do for now. I always see the above stands at the car boots so not diffecult to source. also more better for moving and placement etc.

walpurgis
22-01-2013, 17:45
The best way to get the bass units away from the floor is to turn the speakers upside down, as per Dynaudio Consequence (see thumbail).

wiicrackpot
22-01-2013, 19:16
Thanks for the ideas/tips guys, will see if i could find something near hand to raise them up 6' inches or so. :)

Dan, dome covers sent 1st class, should be with you tomorrow weather permitting.

wiicrackpot
23-01-2013, 11:43
Just been to Lidl and came across these self build stools, 8 inches tall x 15 inches wide, £3.99 each and works a treat.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hthbdd9hb8gdnkz/2003-01-01%2000.01.27.jpg

Glad to hear domes arrived at Dan's.

dantheman91
23-01-2013, 12:18
Hi Chap

Quick question as andy said the dome covers arrived this morning.

Just wondering whats the best way to attach them to the tweeters.

DSJR
23-01-2013, 12:32
I doubt you'd lose too much bass as floor mounted, there's too much mid bass to start with and the tiny tweeter would fire into one's tummy with them plonked on the floor.

Remember, all these bigger Wharfedale, Goodmans and Celestions from the early 70's were designed for well heeled music lovers trading up from big heavy radiograms, with their lovely rich "tone." A thin toned screecher as all too often made today wouldn't have been sellable back then.

walpurgis
23-01-2013, 17:38
Hi Chap

Quick question as andy said the dome covers arrived this morning.

Just wondering whats the best way to attach them to the tweeters.

Thin double sided sticky tape cut to shape. Clean off any old residue first. Soaking with wax spray furniture polish a couple of times will remove the residue, but you'll have to degrease them by washing in detergent after.

dantheman91
23-01-2013, 18:07
Hi

Thanks

I have furnature polish at work will this do. Also what double ided tape is best also where to buy it from etc.

AlfaGTV
23-01-2013, 19:53
Most hardware stores carry thin double sided carpet tape. In my experience that would work fine, as it's thin, easy to shape with scissors, reasonably stable over time and have got very good adhesion.
There are also some automotive tape that might work, but im not sure where to get this.

Regards Mike

walpurgis
23-01-2013, 23:34
Double sided tape is what they were mounted with originally anyway. The automotive stuff I've got is thicker. £1 shops sell the thin stuff sometimes, I believe W H Smiths have it too.

dantheman91
30-01-2013, 12:27
Tweeters Now have the grilles


:)

wiicrackpot
30-01-2013, 19:00
Looking good, so what did you use?. :)

Totally enjoying mine, so much so i'm gonna hang on to them a little longer, the Yamaha tweeter is working extremely well, :cool:
love to compare them to the real mccoys to see i am not deluding myself.

dantheman91
30-01-2013, 20:33
I used double sided tape cut to size as thats what was originaly used for the grilles. Been playing with them again today i love them they are staying . Swaping about allot each week to have a play with the gear i have and have a boogie. There typical celestion though. had many but these are the best up there with the 66's