Led Zeppelin II... uuggghhh!? [Archive]

WOStantonCS100

05-05-2011, 22:32

I was diligent about getting all the others. But, since I grew up listening to an original pressing of LZ II my father had, and knowing how popular it was, I took for granted that I'd be able to get a decent copy (not even an RL copy) at any time.

Well, bad move on my part, as car boots and used record stores have had zilch for a long time. What often shows up now are record club pressings and/or very much wore out copies for almost £12!! What a blunder on my part! :doh: I just righted that situation and filled that hole in my collection; but, I had to sell one of my children. I wonder if the wife will notice. :scratch:

The Grand Wazoo

05-05-2011, 22:38

Similarly, I've been looking for a good clean copy of the first Doors album and 'Let It Be' for years, since I had them nicked. God knows how many copies of each I've bought, but they've all sounded like someone cleaned them with Brillo pads. I snaffled a copy of the Doors album at the record store day the other week & it's perhaps the worst pressed album I've ever bought - all for 20 quid

WOStantonCS100

05-05-2011, 23:04

...they've all sounded like someone cleaned them with Brillo pads

YEEEOOOUCCH!! :eek:

I don't have those two, either. :doh: Worse, than that, I have to confess, I don't think I have any Doors. I'm pretty much done for in that category. It's probably costly reissues or nothing. Somehow, once you get the record on the turntable... ...it makes all the trouble of getting the music, worthwhile. :)

It's really strange the holes you find in your collection, sometimes; things you thought you had stashed away in the cubby ages ago.

WAD62

06-05-2011, 11:17

Quite sadly I have everything up to and including 'in through the out door' on vinyl, plus everything apart from 'in through the out door' (as it was rubbish) on CD, and on top of that I have the 4 cd original remaster box set, then the subsequent odds and sods 2cd set, and finally the 2 cd BBC live set...oh and add to that 2 copies of the song remains the same DVD (I don't know how that happened!), the live 2 DVD set, and the knebworth DVD...

My Zeppelin OCD knows no bounds...:eyebrows:

DSJR

06-05-2011, 16:25

WOStantonCS100

06-05-2011, 17:11

I have LZII on Canadian vinyl, UK Polydor vinyl (they both sound the same), CBS pressed mid 70's vinyl (different but no worse or better), and various CD incarnations. This one has huge bass distortion, which tends to affect the vocals on vinyl, but is separate in nature on the CD's. The box sets seem rather trebly compared to the remastered albums (same digital transfers apparently) and it's obvious that Jimmy Page did some eq'ing of the II masters to take ones attention away from the overloaded bass-tracks of the master. A shame they couldn't locate the multi-tracks for these sessions, but these may have been re-used once the mixes were done (for cost saving reasons).

I tried for an "RL" copy; but, the price of one in beat up condition just wasn't sensible for me. "Gold Sticker" copies weren't much better, condition-wise also considering asking price. Then again, those who bought this record most likely played it... a lot. I settled for a VG+ reissue (late 70's maybe?). When it arrived it was scratched and only VG or G. It also turned out to be a "record club" pressing. Not that all RC pressings are bad; but, the sound quality on this particular one is abysmal. (I actually did get a full refund and the seller didn't even want the record back despite offering to send it back on more than one occasion.)

I ended up ordering the Classic Records vinyl reissue. I think it's 180 grams, not that that really means anything. If the sound quality only equals that of the "Gold Sticker" version I grew up with (thanks Dad!), I'll be happy.

Anyone else heard/have the Classic Records reissue? Do you like it? How does it compare to others you've heard?

Rare Bird

06-05-2011, 19:02

"You Shook Me" till i was "Dazed and Confused" , we've has some "Good Times Bad Times" but "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" .

"How Many More Times" do i have to tell you "Your Time Is Gonna Come"

"Ramble On" on all you want, your just an "Heartbreaker" I'd rather meet the "Gallows Pole" than be with you much longer.

So i'm "Going to California" with my "Black Dog" , "Over the Hills and Far Away" to find myseld a "Black Country Woman" , so "Thank You" & goodbye.

Barry

06-05-2011, 19:11

"You Shook Me" till I was "Dazed and Confused" , we've has some "Good Times Bad Times" but "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" .

"How Many More Times" do I have to tell you "Your Time Is Gonna Come"

"Ramble On" on all you want, your just an "Heartbreaker" I'd rather meet the "Gallows Pole" than be with you much longer.

So I'm "Going to California" with my "Black Dog" , "Over the Hills and Far Away" to find myseld a "Black Country Woman" , so "Thank You" & goodbye.

:lolsign:

DSJR

06-05-2011, 19:18

sparrow

06-05-2011, 19:41

I tried for an "RL" copy; but, the price of one in beat up condition just wasn't sensible for me. "Gold Sticker" copies weren't much better, condition-wise also considering asking price. Then again, those who bought this record most likely played it... a lot. I settled for a VG+ reissue (late 70's maybe?). When it arrived it was scratched and only VG or G. It also turned out to be a "record club" pressing. Not that all RC pressings are bad; but, the sound quality on this particular one is abysmal. (I actually did get a full refund and the seller didn't even want the record back despite offering to send it back on more than one occasion.)

I ended up ordering the Classic Records vinyl reissue. I think it's 180 grams, not that that really means anything. If the sound quality only equals that of the "Gold Sticker" version I grew up with (thanks Dad!), I'll be happy.

Anyone else heard/have the Classic Records reissue? Do you like it? How does it compare to others you've heard?

I have a Classic Records 200g reissue and it sounds superb...quite pricey these days..How much did you pay?

Jac Hawk

06-05-2011, 20:10

well on a better note, i've been tring to hunt out the LP's that i really liked from my original collection and get them again, anyway an LP high on my list was ZZ Top "Tres Hombres" and i mannaged to get a close to mint original 1973 pressing on the London label, only paid £2.50 for it, and all credit to the bloke i got it from for looking after it so well:)

WOStantonCS100

07-05-2011, 04:41

...anyway an LP high on my list was ZZ Top "Tres Hombres" and i mannaged to get a close to mint original 1973 pressing on the London label, only paid £2.50 for it, and all credit to the bloke i got it from for looking after it so well:)

Ahhh yes, the good Rev. ...and "Francine" (Rio Grande Mud). ;) Picking up their early records wasn't much of a challenge here as the "sharp dressed men" hype got all the attention.

I have a Classic Records 200g reissue and it sounds superb...quite pricey these days..How much did you pay?

Quite pricey is right! To my house via FedEx new/sealed... £60!!! :rolleyes: Nevertheless, "sounds superb" is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping to hear. I almost didn't go for it; but, the music is too good to settle for a crap copy. I mean, right off, "Whole Lotta Love", (played to death, perhaps); still, Bonham's high hat is killin' it!! Rockin' and swingin'; air guitar and bum-shakin' all at the same time. Fabulous. When Robert Plant said, "we're gonna groove", he meant it. :)

I think it sounds pretty good as an original 45rpm, even edited and in mono (not mine). Sonically, it wipes the floor with my record club LP pressing, even thru YT.

XtDyoxuM9FQ

Macca

07-05-2011, 09:16

My Zep2 is a 1971 re issue on Atlantic, bought in 1987 for about £4

It was in shit state but no scratches or groove damage, it cleaned up with repeted plays. There are some dodgy stains on the cover (which were there when I bought it honest) and it may have been used to skin up on a few times:rolleyes: but it is still my number one most prized record.

Rare Bird

07-05-2011, 11:20

I've Seen Led Zep 'I' UK 1st issue sell for just short of £1K

aquapiranha

07-05-2011, 11:26

As a LZ fan, I found this amusing...

http://youtu.be/tiiY4ciKFQA

Cliff

07-05-2011, 11:44

I have Zep II on classic records and it is the best sounding one of the Zeps on classic that I have, and I have almost all of them.

I use it as a reference, in fact, for dialing in my system. If side 2 sounds right and good to me, I am usually pretty happy with everything;)

WOStantonCS100

07-05-2011, 19:25

It arrived today. Whoa! It is the Quiex (33 rpm) 200 gram version! I'm giving it a quick listen, now. It threw me at first as I'm used to a lot more distortion and general "crudiness"; takes a minute to get used to the clarity.

I do appreciate how Robert Plant has made it quite clear in interviews that LZ was so greatly influenced by blues musicians and American music in general... meeting Elvis, etc. But, like Jimi, I stand by the fact that they took those influences to a whole other place and I am tremendously grateful for that. All the better, credit where credit is due; but, doesn't diminish the accomplishments, in my eye.

Werner Berghofer

08-05-2011, 06:30

I do appreciate how Robert Plant has made it quite clear in interviews that LZ was so greatly influenced by blues musicians and American music in general

Not only American music: Led Zeppelin also shamelessly ripped off British artists without giving credit where credit is due. ”Black mountain side“ from Led Zeppelin’s first album (1969) is a copy of ”Blackwater side“, published in 1966 by British guitarist Bert Jansch on the album ”Jack Orion“. It sounds like a traditional, but in fact it was composed by Bert Jansch.

The moment I discovered the original songs and the true roots and origins of most Led Zeppelin stuff, I felt very sorry for the black musicians and their names not even being mentioned by a supergroup of rich, white British dudes.

Macca

08-05-2011, 08:22

Zeppelin rocked like no band before or since; they were the pinnacle of Rock Music, it's Concorde Moment. They are way beyond serious criticism.

Once you start trying to work out who ripped off who in the world of music you open up a big, big can of worms. Those delta blues guys weren't original either. don't forget..

WAD62

08-05-2011, 09:27

Well they did have to cough up to Willie Dixon's family for 'Whole lot of love', stolen or reinterpreted (make your choice) from 'You need love', and Leadbelly was fully credited for 'when the levee breaks'.

A couple of years ago I saw a guy called Neru Kaine (probably the wrong spelling), who played traditional african berber tribal music, on what looked like a stick with 3 pieces of string, it was immediately obvious where the early blues boys got their influences from...everyone gets their influences from somewhere, it's just what you do with it that counts IMHO ;)

Werner Berghofer

08-05-2011, 10:11

Martin,

They are way beyond serious criticism.

I wholeheartedly agree, they were and still are beyond serious criticism. As a male, once you’ve passed your 25th birthday, Led Zeppelin’s attitude – as well as most heavy metal, hard rock band’s (whatever one may call the musical expression of the pain of oversexed and underf*cked adolescent, guitar strangling dudes) – sounded and looked really ridiculous, and it still does at least for me :-)

In my humble opinion every Led Zeppelin album released after ”Led Zeppelin IV“ contained largely crap. The highly praised two LP set ”Physical graffiti“ easily could have been cut down to just one LP.

Led Zeppelin was a band for a certain age, for a certain period in the lifetime of a young male. Looking back with the perspective of a grown-up man, most of Led Zeppelin’s songs are embarrassing. Compare this for example to songs from Bob Dylan or Tom Waits, which quite on the contrary seem to become better, deeper and really timeless with every year.

Well, to each his own, for sure. A lot has changed since 1980, not only in the world of music. Let’s face it, guys, we are not teenagers anymore :-)

Werner Berghofer

08-05-2011, 10:17

Will,

everyone gets their influences from somewhere

that’s very true, but I do think there is a certain difference between influence and shameless theft.

Cliff

08-05-2011, 10:32

Will,

that’s very true, but I do think there is a certain difference between influence and shameless theft.

Everything worth doing has already been done before, and probably better, in the past, except maybe in certain fields of science.
Is there anything in the world of film new today? Not as I can see.
Many if not most other artists fail to fully credit those who influenced them or from whom they steal, if you prefer.

You don't like Zep, fine. I think Dylan sucks and is highly overrated-- a singer who sings terribly and whose voice grates.

I credit the original poster of these ideas, whoever he may be.:ner:

Werner Berghofer

08-05-2011, 10:52

Cliff,

You don't like Zep, fine.

gosh, that’s not true, and if my statements gave this impression I used the wrong words (hard for me to write about delicate cultural matters in a language which I do not speak natively). I purchased the remastered first four albums of Led Zeppelin just a year ago and still like to listen to their music occasionally, but I do this with a certain tongue in cheek mode.

Once I discovered the words and the music for example of Robert Johnson, Son House, Bessie Smith, Big Bill Broonzy, Sonny Boy Williamson, Leadbelly, Lightnin’ Hopkins, Brownie McGhee, Muddy Waters, B.B King or Memphis Minnie, I got the impression that the British blues revolution was just another facet of how the white race exploited the so-called ”third world“.

Besided this, I really appreciate the more bare-bones, reduced to the max style of playing music. Take away the Marshall amplifiers, the ring modulators and the many other electric ornaments which were introduced by Jimmy Page and have a look at the true substance of a song – you will see what remains is mostly the expression of underprivileged black people.

WAD62

08-05-2011, 11:14

Will,

that’s very true, but I do think there is a certain difference between influence and shameless theft.

Indeed Werner, I think they were certainly rumbled for 'Whole lotta love'...

We live in a world where Elvis is more famous than Muddy Waters or Robert Johnson, there's no accounting for taste, or fairness for that matter :cool:

My point of view is that Zeppelin took Muddy Waters 'electification' of the blues that one step further, so they did contribute quite a bit IMHO ;)

Anyway from our old friend wiki;

In 1962, Muddy Waters recorded "You Need Love" written for him by peer Willie Dixon. In 1966 British mod band the Small Faces recorded the song as "You Need Loving" for their eponymous début Decca LP. Some of the lyrics of Led Zeppelin's version were copied from the Willie Dixon song, a favourite of Plant's. Plant's phrasing is particularly similar to that of Steve Marriott's in the Small Faces' version. Similarities with "You Need Love" would lead to a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin, settled out of court in favour of Dixon in 1985.[3] The Small Faces were never sued by Dixon, even though "You Need Loving" still only credits Ronnie Lane and Steve Marriott.
Robert Plant, a huge fan of blues and soul singers, regularly quoted other songs, especially live.
Page's riff was Page's riff. It was there before anything else. I just thought, 'well, what am I going to sing?' That was it, a nick. Now happily paid for. At the time, there was a lot of conversation about what to do. It was decided that it was so far away in time (it was in fact 7 years) and influence that...well, you only get caught when you're successful. That's the game.[4]
- Robert Plant

Jac Hawk

08-05-2011, 11:32

The way i see it is, being influenced by a particular style or artist is one thing having similar riffs etc. however it's a completely different matter when you pretty much take someones music note for note and pass it on as your own. Will is right when he said that Willie Dixon got his dues as well as many other artists, the thing is though sometimes you get a tune pop into your head, or at least i do, and your not sure if it's something you've come up with or if you're just remembering something you heared years ago, now in my case it's usually the latter, but my point is, if you can't remember hearing it in the past you're going to pass it off as yours until someone comes along and says, oi thats mine!

The other thing you have to wonder about too, is the free exposure the likes of led zep gave the old blues artists when the shit hit the fan so to speak, i mean how many led zep fans will have gone out and bought some records or tapes of muddy waters or howlin wolf, just to see what all the bother was about, then found that they liked it and bought more....

Cliff

08-05-2011, 12:00

Cliff,

gosh, that’s not true, and if my statements gave this impression I used the wrong words (hard for me to write about delicate cultural matters in a language which I do not speak natively). I purchased the remastered first four albums of Led Zeppelin just a year ago and still like to listen to their music occasionally, but I do this with a certain tongue in cheek mode.

Once I discovered the words and the music for example of Robert Johnson, Son House, Bessie Smith, Big Bill Broonzy, Sonny Boy Williamson, Leadbelly, Lightnin’ Hopkins, Brownie McGhee, Muddy Waters, B.B King or Memphis Minnie, I got the impression that the British blues revolution was just another facet of how the white race exploited the so-called ”third world“.

Besided this, I really appreciate the more bare-bones, reduced to the max style of playing music. Take away the Marshall amplifiers, the ring modulators and the many other electric ornaments which were introduced by Jimmy Page and have a look at the true substance of a song – you will see what remains is mostly the expression of underprivileged black people.

I enjoy my Zeppelin albums and my blues albums by many of the artists you mention (and many you don't). Sure Zep is heavily influenced by many of those artists and maybe even directly rips off some of them, but to me Zeppelin music is a very different experience that I enjoy for its own sake.
Zeppelin took that music to a different level, or a different place.
It seems to me that is the way it is done in the music world.

And I have to smile at the political sentiments expressed in ,say, a J. B. Lenoire song, just like I smile at grown men who see everything including their music through a political filter.
I thought that was for youngsters under 25.

John

08-05-2011, 12:05

I guess for me Zepplin was always about the live event and yes when they were in their prime it would be like a religious experience IMHO

Macca

08-05-2011, 15:49

lot has changed since 1980, not only in the world of music. Let’s face it, guys, we are not teenagers anymore :-)

Werner

You may not be a teenager anymore, but I, for one, ain't going to give in that easily.:eyebrows:

:guitar:

Werner Berghofer

08-05-2011, 18:20

The other thing you have to wonder about too, is the free exposure the likes of led zep gave the old blues artists

That’s a very good and important point I share with you and I completely agree with you.

Look, a little time before Led Zeppelin took off there have been British artists like Alexis Korner, John Mayall and maybe Cream. They always talked about their true idols, exposed these names and their music to a bigger public.

Led Zeppelin did not do this, and they did not behave like true gentlemen. Being a true gentlemen is not related to the length of your hair, the style of your clothes or the way you act on a stage. It includes respecting the work and rights of other creative people.

Werner Berghofer

08-05-2011, 18:22

Zeppelin took that music to a different level, or a different place. It seems to me that is the way it is done in the music world.

A very good and true point.

WOStantonCS100

08-05-2011, 20:08

Martin,

I wholeheartedly agree, they were and still are beyond serious criticism. As a male, once you’ve passed your 25th birthday, Led Zeppelin’s attitude – as well as most heavy metal, hard rock band’s (whatever one may call the musical expression of the pain of oversexed and underf*cked adolescent, guitar strangling dudes) – sounded and looked really ridiculous, and it still does at least for me :-)

In my humble opinion every Led Zeppelin album released after ”Led Zeppelin IV“ contained largely crap. The highly praised two LP set ”Physical graffiti“ easily could have been cut down to just one LP.

Led Zeppelin was a band for a certain age, for a certain period in the lifetime of a young male. Looking back with the perspective of a grown-up man, most of Led Zeppelin’s songs are embarrassing. Compare this for example to songs from Bob Dylan or Tom Waits, which quite on the contrary seem to become better, deeper and really timeless with every year.

Well, to each his own, for sure. A lot has changed since 1980, not only in the world of music. Let’s face it, guys, we are not teenagers anymore :-)

...taking the piss out of this thread, eh ;) Well, okay; but, sometimes I wonder where folks come up with stuff like this or maybe it's just for shock value. The rest of the truly music loving world has happily moved on from assigning music by demographic. :)

Werner Berghofer

09-05-2011, 06:11

Biff,

sometimes I wonder where folks come up with stuff like

because music – like any other artistic expression – cannot be perceived detached from historical, social, psychological and other aspects and contexts of life, especially if the music is accompanied by lyrics and even more if the music became massively popular. At least for me this is the case.

Taking the piss into this thread again: If plain joy for pure music itself is existing there certainly are other sources which are much more satisfactory than the stuff produced by Led Zeppelin :-)

Cliff

09-05-2011, 06:30

"there certainly are other sources which are much more satisfactory than the stuff produced by Led Zeppelin :-)"

I would have to agree with you there sir, I don't think anyone is arguing that Zeppelin embodies the ultimate paradigm of musical expression.

But I really like them, still, and I am already 20 years over 25--maybe I am just a young man at heart.

BTW, your English is very good, no problems there.

Peace, Cliff

WOStantonCS100

09-05-2011, 08:03

Biff,

because music – like any other artistic expression – cannot be perceived detached from historical, social, psychological and other aspects of life, especially if the music is accompanied by lyrics and especially if the music became massively popular. At least for me this is the case.

It's amazing what you can say, as long as you suffix it with that, innit. ;)

Taking the piss into this thread again: If plain joy for pure music itself is existing there certainly are other sources which are much more satisfactory than the stuff produced by Led Zeppelin :-)

"Pure music"? Time for me to quietly exit stage left... :wave:

Werner Berghofer

09-05-2011, 08:41

"Pure music"

Yes, pure music – Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane and Jan Garbarek for example.

Macca

09-05-2011, 12:31

Yes, pure music – Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane and Jan Garbarek for example.

I either like something or I don't. It's historical contrext and sociological implications are utterly meaningless and irrelevant to me. I don't really listen to lyrics so they are largely irrelevant also.

I like and own recordings by Parker, Davis and Coltrane because I like the sound of their stuff, I don't consider it any more 'pure' than Zeppelin and I don't see why 'purity' matters anyway. If Osama Bin Laden had made a good record then I would buy it and play it regardless of the moral perspective.