Duet upgrade to Touch, to Dac or not to DAC

[Domberlin]

I have a Duet Squeezebox at the moment and am looking for a sound upgrade.

Many write that the touch is much better on the digital and analog output, with only very expensive Dac's making a difference.

The Duet is ok, but analog output is lacking something to my ears, even digital output to a DAC is not supposed to be that good.


So therefore I wonder, should I just upgrade to a Touch and probably be very happy not only with the functional upgrade, but also the sound through the analog output?

Or keep the Duet and give a Beresford DAC a try.

Obviously there will be many here (as there is a huge Beresford fanbase here), writing Touch plus Beresford.

But that would not be the best route for me at the moment. ;)

Does the Caiman actually improve the Touch that much? Or does it "only" sound different?

Hope you can give me some good opinions.

[magiccarpetride]

I've originally started my foray into digital streaming with Duet. When I upgraded Duet with Caiman, the improvements were mind-blowing. However. moving from that configuration into Touch feeding via digital coax into Caiman pushed my system into the high-end territory.

I'd say that Touch into Caiman is the biggest bang for the buck on the market today. YMMV.

[howlindawg]

The DAC in the Touch is very good, astoundingly good considering the price point.
The Caiman certainly does improve on the Touch DAC but it's not a night and day difference, just a subtle improvement.
The Gator is slightly better again.

The Touch is certainly a huge improvement over the Duet for analogue output.
The Gatorized Caiman adds an extra few percent to the Touch performance.
I've never heard the Duet + Caiman combo so can't comment on how effective that combo is likely to be in comparison to a Touch.

If it was my money I'd sell the Duet, buy a Touch and consider adding an external DAC at a later date when funds allowed.

[wee tee cee]

I run a duet through a Musical Fidelity m1 DAC.The leap in performance is night and day.I previously ran it through a Dac Magic,with good cables it out performed my Naim 5 CDP.The MF DAC moved the game on further.
You could try upgrading your PSU to a maplin one for about £17,before you start shelling out wads.

[WAD62]

I run a duet through a Musical Fidelity m1 DAC.The leap in performance is night and day.I previously ran it through a Dac Magic,with good cables it out performed my Naim 5 CDP.The MF DAC moved the game on further.
You could try upgrading your PSU to a maplin one for about £17,before you start shelling out wads.

+1

Given that you already have a receiver you might as well spend the cost of a Touch on a better DAC, Beresford springs to mind, and as Tony said the VN10L maplins PSU makes a major difference to the receiver, and while you're at it buy another for the beresford...oh and perhaps a Belkin pure/white coax interconnect if you want to keep things on a budget :)

The touch is a better DAC than the receiver, but as a digital source for 16/44.1 FLAC into an external DAC they are very similar.

The Touch would be more of an option if you ever use high resolution FLAC, as the receiver is happiest with standard 16/44.1 FLAC.

[Gazjam]

Hey Will,

You think the VN10L psu would be worth it for the Touch?

I'm currently using this Maplins regulated switched supply http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-4a-switched-mode-power-supply-48517?c=73669 which I found improved upon the stock unit.
This VN10L being linear, just wondering if it might be a wee step up from what I have.

ta.

[WAD62]

Hey Will,

You think the VN10L psu would be worth it for the Touch?

I'm currently using this Maplins regulated switched supply http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-4a-switched-mode-power-supply-48517?c=73669 which I found improved upon the stock unit.
This VN10L being linear, just wondering if it might be a wee step up from what I have.

ta.

Hi Gaz, if you can get hold of a new spec one I would suggest yes...:)

They've changed suppliers for the VN10L, so the new spec includes 5V, the previous one's closest setting was 4.5v, so I haven't tried it on my SB3, which requires 5V like the touch, I'm still using the same SMPS that you linked to on that.

I've tried both the original VN10L and the SMPS one with my SB receivers and my Beresford as the old one does 9V(receiver), and 12v (Beresford 7510). the VN10L is definitely better IMHO, and cheaper too :)

I now have 3 VN10Ls, all the old spec, even when I ordered from their website I received the old one...

http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-20w-power-supply-32754?tabid=1&criteria=usb&c=so&u=strat15

...so be careful, it was OK for me as I wanted it for the beresford, and 12v works fine for that, they seem confused as to what they have in stock :steam:

[Domberlin]

Thanks so much for your suggestions!

I guess at the moment I am thinking of selling my receiver and getting a Touch, then later maybe a DAC.

The Touch being a bit more stable and having the added bonus of being able to play 24/96 material.



Financially this at the moment would be the cheaper option. Since I will get about 90 Euros for the Receiver and the Touch is 240 Euros at the moment.

But then again the Beresford does tickle me... Decisions, Decisions.:eek:

[WAD62]

Thanks so much for your suggestions!

I guess at the moment I am thinking of selling my receiver and getting a Touch, then later maybe a DAC.

The Touch being a bit more stable and having the added bonus of being able to play 24/96 material.



Financially this at the moment would be the cheaper option. Since I will get about 90 Euros for the Receiver and the Touch is 240 Euros at the moment.

But then again the Beresford does tickle me... Decisions, Decisions.:eek:

Hi Dom, I suppose the deciding factor is the high res capability, I don't own any high res stuff, and I don't up sample at the server end so the Touch wouldn't give me any real advantages. I prefer to put the extra money into a better quality DAC, and use the receiver as a digital source only.

And there are other upgrade options for the receiver (audiocom international offer some), which will make it a better source for 16/44.1 FLAC than the touch, but that is the glass ceiling for receiver resolution/performance. :)

[slate]

Not sure if this is your thread as it was also started the other day http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87414

[WAD62]

Not sure if this is your thread as it was also started the other day http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87414

Hi Jan, I may have already asked you this, so apologies for my ailing memory :doh:

Which Audiocom upgrades did you go for, and which ones would you recommend? Like you I only use it as a digital source :)

[Domberlin]

Not sure if this is your thread as it was also started the other day


yepp, it is my thread. Both forums have been very helpful - modding with Audiocom, well that is one step too far for me.

It is a neverending cycle, I have only just bought my NAD C545BEE CDP and am loving it, but then the Receiver sounded mediocre compared to it and now the upgrades begin...

[slate]

Hi Jan, I may have already asked you this, so apologies for my ailing memory :doh:

You have not, so in this case your memory have not failed you... yet;)


Which Audiocom upgrades did you go for, and which ones would you recommend? Like you I only use it as a digital source :)

Actually I have yet to perform a direct comparison between my 2 receivers... maybe I am afraid that I can't hear any:lol:

Well I had my first Duet running for about a year, when I found myself deported to work in Athlone for several months. I brought my music on an external drive and settled for headphone usage during that time using Squeezeslave.

I have always advocated using good components where it counts. Having to much free time in the evenings I was looking a mods for amps and stumbled over Audiocom on a forum. Tempted but having no experience working with SMD components, I ended up buying a second Receiver via Amazon and having it shipped to Audiocom for modifications... it looks like you can buy the Receiver directly now.

I just had a look at their page to refresh my memory and the modifications are different now. At the time there were no new clock option, WBT connectors, Super-regulator 3 or Teddy PSU.
I got the analog + digital modifications, but not the cryogenic freeze as that it is to far out for me.. aligning atoms:rolleyes:

At the time I was running analog, but today that Receiver is hooked up to my Caiman; actually it would now be easy to perform a digital comparision of the two...

BTW it was a long and difficult birth; now that I check my mails it took Logitech 3 months to deliver the Receiver and then another 4 months for Audiocom to deliver. I am a patient man, but had I not been exiled to Athlone for 3 months and on my return home distracted myself replacing the roof, I would have cancelled it all long before that.
And when I finally received it we had just been told that my workplace would be shutdown... so I never got around to compare with my thoughts and mood being elsewhere... and then I bought the Caiman.

Compared to running analog my setup moved to another level going digital with the Caiman. I tend to credit The Caiman but maybe my old analog pre-amp was partly to blame.

Obviously I would not do the analog part today; from the hip it would be the Digital level 1; no need for the WBT connector part of level 2 as I am using optical.

PSU wise I am on the lookout for a used dual labsupply that can feed both my Receiver and Caiman with some low fat, low sodium, low cholesterol power

A couple of related threads:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80603
http://www.avforums.com/forums/streamers-network-music-players/922807-audiocom-squeezebox-mods.html

[WAD62]

Cheers for the info Jan...my mind's not completely gone yet then ;)

[slate]

There are still hope