View Full Version : Osama killed in Pakistan!
:clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapcla pclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::c lapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapc lap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::cla pclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapcla p::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapc lapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap: :clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapcla pclap::clapclapclap:
We have his body,I'll bet our service men have been kicking it and peeing on it.
I hope they cover him in 6 feet of human poop.
You can kill him in this fun game.
http://www.flashrolls.com/shooting-games/Bin-Laden-Liquors-Flash-Game.htm
Thing Fish
02-05-2011, 05:52
About time to.
WOStantonCS100
02-05-2011, 06:26
I know this will be spun to the hilt and analyzed from every angle. Conspiracy theories will abound and some may have credibility. Dead is dead. The fact is he was an enemy of many, many peoples. I'm a born New Yorker whose parents narrowly escaped the 9/11 b***s***. Let's, too, not forget all persons around the globe who have been victims on London trains, car bombs and suicide bombers elsewhere, etc. etc. All I have to say is...
I AM HAPPIER THAN A M*****F*****, RIGHT NOW!
Hey, Osama... :finger: I'd say let the dogs lick up your blood; but, why poison the dogs?
Beechwoods
02-05-2011, 06:28
I appreciate the sentiments, but can we keep the language reasonable please?
Thing Fish
02-05-2011, 06:30
Now to find Zawahiri who is sure to take over the reins. I've always thought he was more cunning and dangerous than Bin Laden and actually may have been the mastermind behind much of what Bin Laden got credit for.
WOStantonCS100
02-05-2011, 06:37
I appreciate the sentiments, but can we keep the language reasonable please?
Didn't mean to offend. This just hits close to home. Actually, it did hit my home town. Let me know if I need to change it further.
Beechwoods
02-05-2011, 07:08
No problem Biff.
to be honest I I thought he had died many years ago and they just could confirm that it was him,
but great news ! about time they got him but sadly they'll be somebody else to take over his position :-(
but for the people who died or were injured in 9/11 and 7/7 a bit of relief.
My cousin was meant to be in the south tower of WTC on 9/11, he's been in there on 9/10 but on the way in the morning of 9/11 decided to stop off to do a quick job in higher Manhatten before going back to the WTC, he has been living with guilt for nearly 10 years now.
Brilliant news! I've just been watching it. How I'd have loved to have been the solidier with him in my sights... :guns:
Anyway, now *THIS* is something genuinely worth celebrating!! ;)
Marco.
he's already been buried at sea
or has he ? body taken to area 51 for storage i think
Thing Fish
02-05-2011, 07:59
I would have ***** him in an old rusty dustbin and let **** eat his *******.
Edited so as not to offend anyone.
:lolsign:
It's just a pity that they couldn't have captured and tortured him first!
I'd have locked him in a room with some of the poor folks who lost their loved ones in the 9/11 attacks, given them some red-hot pokers and various razor-sharp implements, and let them get evil on his ass..... :chainsaw:
Marco.
Thing Fish
02-05-2011, 08:11
Imagine the **** and painful ***** if he had been ******* to death with **********...:yay:
Edited so as not to offend anyone.
so who's getting the £25,000,000 reward then ?
thats a lot of new HiFi kit :lol:
Spectral Morn
02-05-2011, 10:07
Guys I am deeply saddened by the vile nature of the comments above.
While I am pleased this criminal has been caught and dealt with I am horrified at the level your statements are lowering you to. Frankly the actions you are proposing or would have liked to happen do nothing but lower yourselves to the same level of the creatures who planned and plotted 9/11, 7/7 the beheading of Ken Biggly etc.
We need to be much better than this or the lies/distortions told to the children of these men and women will be confirmed in their minds and a new generation of terrorists will rise up against the *evil* western civilisation.
So be happy he has been caught and punished but keep the rampant hatred in check please.
D S D L :(
Noted, Neil, and point taken. But I think folks are entitled to blow off a little steam, considering the terrible atrocities this man has been guilty of.
The "rampant hatred" will be kept in check, but I personally haven't said anything here that I haven't already told people in real life, therefore I am simply expressing my true feelings on the matter, which others are also entitled to do (within reason).
Marco.
Thing Fish
02-05-2011, 10:35
So people can slag off the royal family but Mr Bin-laden gets protected?
Jac Hawk
02-05-2011, 10:44
Guys I am deeply saddened by the vile nature of the comments above.
While I am pleased this criminal has been caught and dealt with I am horrified at the level your statements are lowering you to. Frankly the actions you are proposing or would have liked to happen do nothing but lower yourselves to the same level of the creatures who planned and plotted 9/11, 7/7 the beheading of Ken Biggly etc.
We need to be much better than this or the lies/distortions told to the children of these men and women will be confirmed in their minds and a new generation of terrorists will rise up against the *evil* western civilisation.
So be happy he has been caught and punished but keep the rampant hatred in check please.
D S D L :(
Very true Neil, i apreciate that he and his organisation have caused many people a whole heap of suffering, but we are better than this, him and his organisation. I just hope that this is the end of it, and there are no repercussions, by people who will undoubtedly make a martyr of him, the problem is, you can easily kill a man, but killing an idea is another matter:rolleyes:
So people can slag off the royal family but Mr Bin-laden gets protected?
Not on here he won't, mate.
You're quite right. To allow 'slagging off' of the Royal Family, and then get all prissy about folk venting their justified hatred of one of the most vile war criminals man has known (particularly what he stood for), would be hypocritical in the extreme - and so it won't be happening!
Marco.
chris@panteg
02-05-2011, 10:53
Hate breed's Hate !
Does anyone think that's the end of it , Has America ever really wondered why these people hate them so much ? Or us in fact .
Do we want to try and change that ? , what's going to happen now , more bombing and killing is my guess , and it go's on and on .
I'm not going to say too much here, but I think Benjamin Franklin once said "Humility makes great men twice as honourable"
Scenes like the ones I am seeing on some of the news pages will only fuel the fire. The BBC earlier had a picture of Bin Laden's image being burned (thankfully now removed), we are supposed to be better than this aren't we? Yes it is welcome news and will no doubt be applauded across the world, but what sort of example are we setting by dancing on his grave?
The Vinyl Adventure
02-05-2011, 10:55
I'm with Neil ... I'm very shocked at some of these comments ... Vile out pourings!
Apart from anything, bin ladens death will probably do very little (bar vast amounts western propaganda justifying action of war of course)... The ideal remains ... And that it where any "problem" lies!
Jac Hawk
02-05-2011, 11:03
I'm not going to say too much here, but Benjamin Franklin once said "Humility makes great men twice as honourable"
Scenes like the ones I am seeing on some of the news pages will only fuel the fire. The BBC earlier had a picture of Bin Laden's image being burned (thankfully now removed), we are supposed to be better than this aren't we? Yes it is welcome that he has been brought to justice, but what sort of example are we setting by dancing on his grave?
Exactly, we see on the news images of the stars and stripes being burned in muslim countries, now i'm british so that doesn't bother me, but my girlfriend is from the U.S. and she is furious about it, what we are doing is no better than that, we in the west need to look at ourselves and think about the impression we are giving to the arab/muslim world, they want war, all we are doing is winding up the extremists, you don't need to be a genius to guess what comes next.
Thing Fish
02-05-2011, 11:15
It will come regardless what we do.
Beechwoods
02-05-2011, 11:16
... and think about the impression we are giving to the arab/muslim world, they want war, all we are doing is winding up the extremists, you don't need to be a genius to guess what comes next.
Please let's remember in the middle of all this that the extremists are a tiny minority. Most people living the 'arab/muslim world' just want what we all want, peace, prosperity and stability.
I shot him years ago. With a Nine. Repeatedly. Heres a picture to prove it;)
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/004.jpg
Thing Fish
02-05-2011, 11:24
You can claim the reward Macca...!!!
kininigin
02-05-2011, 11:31
All these comments remind me of bill hicks when he said..
eR3KwODDzeY
If a arab guy who was funded by the cia in the 80's,masterminded the attack of two buildings in which two planes pulled off impossible manuvres and flew into restricted airspace without the airforce being alerted,which resulted in two buildings which for the first time in history completly collasped at free fall speed due to fire,if he really did that then i could understand some of these comments although i don't agree with them.
People seem to have very short memorys regarding all the so called 'evidence' like the names of the so called 'highjackers' who all died in the attacks still being alive or the passports of 'highjackers found by the buildings,you know those things made of paper or the lack of plane reckage and tiny hole in the pentagon or the video evidence which was faked or doctored or the eyewitness statements that would contradict 'official govement evidence' and be left out the 9/11 commission report and hidden from the public. i could go on and on.
So while you all jump for joy at the alleged killing of a patsy (classic false flag operation)and although a few thousand died in 9/11, maybe spare a thought for the millions that have died since 2003,i hope you all think it was worth it.
I for one think it's all a load of bullshite and everyone who has died as a result of the 9/11 attacks and the following wars deserves to have thier lives honored by finding the truth about why all these people died and i for one will voice my opinion till the truth does come out.
Please let's remember in the middle of all this that the extremists are a tiny minority. Most people living the 'arab/muslim world' just want what we all want, peace, prosperity and stability.
There a much larger number than you would like to think.
I REALLY DON'T CARE IF PEOPLE THINK I'M A MONSTER FOR WANTING HIS HEAD ON A PLATE,DID YOU NOT SEE PEOPLE JUMP FROM THE TOP OF THOSE BUILDINGS HOLDING HANDS BECAUSE THE FIRE WAS SO HOT?
I'd drag his body through N.Y. then feed it to the pigs!
He has caused nothing but torcher and death in his life caused thousands of women to be raped and stoned to death,people to be skinned alive,the whole world should be having a party! :cool:
I like conspiracy theories, Darren, but I don't buy into the '9/11 was false flag operation' theory, that's not to say there are no false flag ops.
Discussed this with a devout muslim a couple of months ago, face to face, I should add. It was a rational, friendly discussion and in the end we agreed to disgaree. I don't think he liked to face up to the idea that his fellow muslims were capable of such an atrocity.
All these comments remind me of bill hicks when he said..
eR3KwODDzeY
If a arab guy who was funded by the cia in the 80's,masterminded the attack of two buildings in which two planes pulled off impossible manuvres and flew into restricted airspace without the airforce being alerted,which resulted in two buildings which for the first time in history completly collasped at free fall speed due to fire,if he really did that then i could understand some of these comments although i don't agree with them.
People seem to have very short memorys regarding all the so called 'evidence' like the names of the so called 'highjackers' who all died in the attacks still being alive or the passports of 'highjackers found by the buildings,you know those things made of paper or the lack of plane reckage and tiny hole in the pentagon or the video evidence which was faked or doctored or the eyewitness statements that would contradict 'official govement evidence' and be left out the 9/11 commission report and hidden from the public. i could go on and on.
So while you all jump for joy at the alleged killing of a patsy (classic false flag operation)and although a few thousand died in 9/11, maybe spare a thought for the millions that have died since 2003,i hope you all think it was worth it.
I for one think it's all a load of bullshite and everyone who has died as a result of the 9/11 attacks and the following wars deserves to have thier lives honored by finding the truth about why all these people died and i for one will voice my opinion till the truth does come out.
Are you calling Bin Ladin a lair,he took credit for the attack, he even called his mother the night before and explained he would have to go into deep hiding.
Neil McCauley
02-05-2011, 11:42
Most people living the 'arab/muslim world' just want what we all want, peace, prosperity and stability.
Surely the word 'apparently' was missing from the above? Or perhaps 'We'd like to believe that ........"
Exactly, we see on the news images of the stars and stripes being burned in muslim countries, now i'm british so that doesn't bother me, but my girlfriend is from the U.S. and she is furious about it, what we are doing is no better than that, we in the west need to look at ourselves and think about the impression we are giving to the arab/muslim world, they want war, all we are doing is winding up the extremists, you don't need to be a genius to guess what comes next.
They declared war on us Remember.
There going to try to kill us any way, If other Islamists would speak up ageist these extremists and they really are only 5% then we wouldn't need to be at war.
BUT WE ARE AT WAR...
Rich Conroy
02-05-2011, 11:47
I'd also like to appeal for some moderation in these postings. It's very important to realise that THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM. It's not a discussion over a few pints in a pub.
I'm certainly very happy OBL is dead, BUT I'm not going to glorify in the death of anyone (OK, I'll make an exception for Bono). It's important to realise that we should keep the moral high ground. Anything else will provide propaganda to muslim extremists.
MOST COUNTRIES have at some point behaved in an evil way or produced individuals/groups who did so.
RC
kininigin
02-05-2011, 11:51
I like conspiracy theories, Darren, but I don't buy into the '9/11 was false flag operation' theory, that's not to say there are no false flag ops.
Discussed this with a devout muslim a couple of months ago, face to face, I should add. It was a rational, friendly discussion and in the end we agreed to disgaree. I don't think he liked to face up to the idea that his fellow muslims were capable of such an atrocity.
If you want to believe the inconsistences in the official story then fair enough that's your decision.
I don't 'like' conspiracy theories,i like to know the truth when so many have lost thier lives and to my mind the official story doesn't add up.
The man has organized the largest terrorist organization in the world planned and financed hundreds of attacks and inducted 1000's of children some as little as 6 years old to give there lives to kill us,maybe you should read a little history about the Saudi Royal family and see why he is banned from Saudi Arabia.
Or spend a few months in Pakistan as a non Muslim.
They declared war on us Remember.
There going to try to kill us any way, If other Islamists would speak up ageist these extremists and they really are only 5% then we wouldn't need to be at war.
BUT WE ARE AT WAR...
A lot of people in the UK understimate the effect 9/11 had on the USA. The mindset is very different over there, lets forget it and all be friends is not an option that is on the table.
kininigin
02-05-2011, 11:57
Are you calling Bin Ladin a lair,he took credit for the attack, he even called his mother the night before and explained he would have to go into deep hiding.
Believe what you like,if it makes it easier for you,rather than face the possibility that the truth is far closer to home,thats your choice.
Convert or die dosen't leave much room for discussion.
In fact it tells you in the koran never to trust a Jew or a Christian.
It even say's they have the right to cut off our heads,make us slaves or Tax us as they see fit.
Make peace with that,or defend you self,family,country but don't fool your self.
I think people need to chill out a little bit, yes it's a very emotinal subject but remember at the end of the day we are all human.
A lot of people in the UK understimate the effect 9/11 had on the USA. The mindset is very different over there, lets forget it and all be friends is not an option that is on the table.
Indeed!
It's very easy to be rational and sensible about this if you haven't lost your husband, wife, son or daughter, as a result of the barbarism of religious extremists, whether Bin Laden was directly responsible for such atrocities or not.
He was simply a 'figurehead' for Al-Qaeda. The hatred people rightly feel towards him is directed at what he represents, not necessarily at him himself.
And for me, such hatred is entirely justified.
Marco.
When the only realistic alternative to end the war was a ground invasion of Japan (Operation Olympic) with an estimated 100,000 Allied casualties in the first 3 months?
Not saying it was an 'okay' thing to do but although most of the decisions in a war are tough ones to make, they still have to be made.
Thing Fish
02-05-2011, 12:06
decisions in a war are tough ones to make, they still have to be made.
+ 1 :thumbsup:
Lets reflect a bit
People are not bad individuals are bad history keeps showing this
I totally understand why people have reacted the way to Bin Larden death he is a figure head
Many Muslims have died because of the actions of terrarium and we also started to see a new way in the Arab world in the last few months with the events of Tunisia and Egypt has shown other aspirations
9/11 has changed the world forever it ripples are still being felt , but please lets not stereotype people
I'd drag his body through N.Y. then feed it to the pigs!
He has caused nothing but torcher and death in his life caused thousands of women to be raped and stoned to death,people to be skinned alive
A fate not so dissimilar to that of a large number of "Native Americans" a hundred years before.
If we look at every nation history there stuff not to be proud off
Thing Fish
02-05-2011, 13:18
******,*****,****...:chainsaw::):)
Edited so as not to offend anyone.
Jac Hawk
02-05-2011, 13:24
Now i'm going to piss our American friends off with the next statement i'm going to make, but it's a worth while point, anyway here we go...........:eyebrows:
Back before terrorism was invented, you know before 911, we the British people had to put up with a bunch of "freedom fighters" called the IRA, did we call for sanctions against Southern Ireland.....No, did the U.S.A. help us in anyway combat the bombings through the 70's and 80's..........No, but the largest amount of funding for the IRA came from sympathisers from the U.S.A, also IRA fugitives often fled to the U.S.A to go into hiding. I'm sorry but the U.S.A did very little until it happend to them.
Terrorism has been happening for many many years, and the U.S.A has only taken this hard line approach since 911.
Also with regards to most muslims being peaceful, back when 911 happened i worked with a group of Pakestan lads, and i was honnestly shocked at their revelry at what had happened, they seemed to look on it as payback, so as non muslims we need to be very careful not to make mistakes when dealing with muslim nations, and in particular with things like Iraq, when we invaded under false pretences, and Israel where we and especially the U.S. turn the cheek when it comes to things the Israelies have done and continue to do.
We really need to take the higher ground, this will help to defuse any repercussions, and paint us in a better light too.
I was in work on 9/11 and when it happened the team leader at the time a very musilm lad first words he said was "they'll blame the muslims" he didnt even seem suprised by the attack.
I totally agree with Mike on his last statement.
I once nearly got in a fight in a bar in New Jersey because of the IRA and the young men in the bar saying they supported the IRA and made money donations to them.
itrYbwesN7s
This is getting old and so are you
Everything you know and never knew
Will run through your fingers just like sand
- Enjoy it while you can -
Like a snake between two stones
It itches, in your bones
Take a deep breath and swallow, your sorrow, tomorrow
Raise the cup and let's propose a toast
To the thing that hurts you most
It's your last cup of sorrow
What can you say?
Finish it today
It's your last cup of sorrow
So think of me
And get on your way
It won't begin until you make it end
Until you know the how the where and the when
With a new face you might surprise yourself
Like a snake between two stones
It itches, in your bones
Take a deeper breath and swallow, your sorrow, tomorrow
Raise the cup and let's propose a toast
To the thing that hurts you most
Is your last cup of sorrow
What can you say?
Finish it today
It's your last cup of sorrow
So think of me
And get on your way
You might surprise yourself
Si446VRaTyw
kininigin
02-05-2011, 16:02
GOVERMENT:'Quick look we got him see'
PUBLIC:'But it looks like an 15yr old photo which has been photoshopped,have you any other evidence?'
GOVERMENT: 'Erm no,we threw his body in the sea'.
Warning disturbing images'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake
So they tried to pass off a fake as a real, and now the people found out, and they are saying it's a fake.
Beechwoods
02-05-2011, 16:09
Please, no pictures. These are freely available elsewhere on the web for anyone wishing to go looking for them.
kininigin
02-05-2011, 16:13
Please, no pictures. These are freely available elsewhere on the web for anyone wishing to go looking for them.
apologies,remove if need be.I just don't like seeing people manipulated and feel it's an important subject,i sometimes forget it's a public forum.
Beechwoods
02-05-2011, 16:18
It's a valid point Darren, and I'd not clicked through to see the detail. I'd also not realised that the pictures doing the rounds were Photoshopped.
I'm am conscious however that members do read the forum in family areas and images like that can be disturbing in that situation.
Under those circumstances it's best to link to elsewhere, with a note to warn people what they're going to see when they hit the link. I'd prefer not to have to edit anyone's post, but if you'd like to edit yours that would be great.
kininigin
02-05-2011, 16:28
It's a valid point Darren, and I'd not clicked through to see the detail. I'd also not realised that the pictures doing the rounds were Photoshopped.
I'm am conscious however that members do read the forum in family areas and images like that can be disturbing in that situation.
Under those circumstances it's best to link to elsewhere, with a note to warn people what they're going to see when they hit the link. I'd prefer not to have to edit anyone's post, but if you'd like to edit yours that would be great.
duly noted nick,im just trying to nudge people and suggest that maybe what we see and hear is not the whole story.
duly noted nick,im just trying to nudge people and suggest that maybe what we see and hear is not the whole story.
Nothing wrong with doing that, but posting pictures IMO is in very poor taste, no doubt you can find that if you want at Rotten.com - but on an audiophile forum?
anthonyTD
02-05-2011, 16:41
hi Darren,
i suspect there are many here who have read your posts and thought similar thoughts, Free thinking people will [hopefully] always see through the veil of inconsistencies and lies that obscure the truth.:)
A...
Beechwoods
02-05-2011, 16:41
Thanks Tim. And thanks Darren for editing your post.
kininigin
02-05-2011, 16:42
Nothing wrong with doing that, but posting pictures IMO is in very poor taste, no doubt you can find that if you want at Rotten.com - but on an audiophile forum?
I think you missed the point tim,im not seeking gratuitous satisfaction from the pictures.
I'm never "glad" when any human being is killed, and I do fear what the repercussions will be, but it is not a loss to the World that he is no longer active. Problem is, there will be a queue of people waiting to take his place.
I do find it very strange that they already threw his body into the sea though... :scratch: I guess they didn't want to end up with a place of pilgrimage, and I'm not saying he should have been stuffed and mounted, but at least with a normal burial there is the opportunity to exhume the remains, should the need ever arise - i.e. independent DNA testing...
Thanks from me too Darren for removing them, I see enough distasteful things without adding to them here. I don't think people will have missed the fact and find it suspicious that his body has been dumped at sea - mind boggling really when you think of his importance :scratch: And I rarely think that what I'm fed by the media and from 'official sources' is the whole story, quite the contrary actually, so I got you point completely ;)
That's me done here now, I'm off to drink beer and listen to some cool toons :cool:
kininigin
02-05-2011, 17:08
hi Darren,
i suspect there are many here who have read your posts and thought similar thoughts, Free thinking people will [hopefully] always see through the veil of inconsistencies and lies that obscure the truth.:)
A...
I hope your right anthony and thought more and more people were starting to question things after all the bad things that have happened over the last few years,after some of todays post i started thinking whats the point.
I have had so many discussions, well more like arguments about 9/11 and the 'war on terror' that im tired of trying to convince people now.Nowadays i just try to suggest an alternative viewpoint and leave it up to them to decide if it's valid or not.
I have a friend who is in the navy and has the total opposite view to me on these matters but we are still mates but he has a belief system which stops him looking at things which contradict his belief system.It took me a while to realise you cannot just expect people to change there views over night,i have allways been of the type to question things.
kininigin
02-05-2011, 17:12
Thanks from me too Darren for removing them, I see enough distasteful things without adding to them here. I don't think people will have missed the fact and find it suspicious that his body has been dumped at sea - mind boggling really when you think of his importance :scratch: And I rarely think that what I am fed by the media and from 'official sources' is the whole story, quite the contrary actually, so I got you point completely ;)
That's me done here now, I'm off to drink beer and listen to some cool toons :cool:
no problem tim,enjoy your drink and choons :)
Neil McCauley
02-05-2011, 17:16
Free thinking people will [hopefully] always see through the veil of inconsistencies and lies that obscure the truth.:)
A...
Yes, but WHICH truth is the one we should be looking for? Is it the one that most satisfies (supports) our individual belief systems for example?
To claim that there is only one truth is, somewhat ironically, the ethos of the deceased terrorist and his believers.
Truth couuld perhaps be looked at as the perception of reality
Jac Hawk
02-05-2011, 19:06
Yes, but WHICH truth is the one we should be looking for? Is it the one that most satisfies (supports) our individual belief systems for example?
To claim that there is only one truth is, somewhat ironically, the ethos of the deceased terrorist and his believers.
Good point Howard, it really depends on what side of the fence you are, i'm sure if the killing of Bin Laden has been reported in say Iran it would have a whole different slant, and the people of Iran would have believed that to be the truth, one countries terrorist is anothers freedom fighter as they say.
to be honnest it's all about power and/or wealth, religion is just the tool to get the masses on your side, be it muslim, christian etc...
I may have posted this before, so apologies if I have. Many years ago (12?) I was at the Swanton Morley Air Show, when a light plane crashed, sadly killing the pilot. Needless to say, it made the local and national TV, Radio and newspapers. Every single report of the accident was different, (The plane stalled; he clipped wings with another member of the team; he hit a tree; he just plummeted to the ground) - needless to say, I learned a valuable lesson that day - never believe anything unless you witness it with your own eyes, and even then, accept that your perspective on how you see things may be flawed - either literally, or emotionally.
Good posts, chaps. I'm in agreement with the above :)
I think what's crucially important to remember in all of this is that I don't believe folks here are necessarily rejoicing over the death of Bin Laden the human being, but rather Bin Laden the deceased figurehead of the Al-Qaeda - and the disgusting and inhumane acts of barbarism carried out in its/his name.
I guess it's a form of 'closure' for some Americans, albeit in the long term an ineffectual and temporary one. And so I can totally sympathise with the strong feelings expressed here by the American members of our community, such as Jeff and Biff.
Can anyone here imagine what it must have been like as a New Yorker, for instance, having to live with the aftermath and sheer horror of 9/11 - perhaps being an eye-witness to those poor people committing suicide, by jumping off the Twin Towers, because they considered that dying that way was preferable to being burned alive, and dealing with seeing the horrific images of the aftermath of that tragedy on the news every day, for months, and the psychological trauma for many that will have caused?
Or perhaps being one of those whose loved ones had phoned from one of the Twin Towers to say goodbye forever because they were just about to die a horrific death?? - And all because of the total lack of respect for innocent human life by Bin Laden and members of the Al-Qaeda, in the pursuit of religious fanaticism. Quite frankly, they are beneath scum.
I’m afraid that I abhor those who are prepared to take innocent human life so cheaply, all in the name of religious extremism. And so Bin Laden got his justified comeuppence. In fact, if we are to believe how the media have portrayed events, then he got off lightly, as far as I'm concerned. So let's cut the 'holier than thou' attitude I've seen here from some! ;)
None of us in the UK (other than those who were directly involved in the London bombings, or who perhaps lost loved ones during 9/11) can even BEGIN to comprehend having to deal with such atrocities, sitting here thousands of miles away in the comfort of our homes, still in the possession of all of our loved ones, with the freedom and safety to exist in peace.
So let's cut our American friends some slack, and allow them to blow off steam, by acknowledging the death of the figurehead of the organisation responsible for committing those atrocities, in whatever way they see fit, within the bounds of reasonable decency (all comments will be closely monitored), and not be judgemental of them justifiably expressing their strong emotions at this very difficult time.
Marco.
Indeed!
It's very easy to be rational and sensible about this if you haven't lost your husband, wife, son or daughter, as a result of the barbarism of religious extremists, whether Bin Laden was directly responsible for such atrocities or not.
He was simply a 'figurehead' for Al-Qaeda. The hatred people rightly feel towards him is directed at what he represents, not necessarily at him himself.
And for me, such hatred is entirely justified.
Marco.
He was the founder and financier of Al Qaeda,He is also responsible for all of the madras schools and Wahhabi isum being made the official sect of Islam in Saudi Arabia,the spread of Sharia law, he spent 85 million+ of his own money building an army of Evil thugs who will do anything horrible in the name of God.
I would also like to apologize for poking fun at the British Royles it just smacks like Hollywood star warship to me. But It is a little different because for England it is about tradition.I was just having a little fun but meant no serious disrespect.
For those who don't get what life is like under Mr. Osama and his thugs they should spend some time in Afghanistan or Pakistan.
Hey,Go on Net Flicks and rent the movie Osama (It is not about Bin Ladin but he dose have a part in it).
I think most people just don't have a clue how Evil and hateful his followers really are.
I'm never "glad" when any human being is killed, and I do fear what the repercussions will be, but it is not a loss to the World that he is no longer active. Problem is, there will be a queue of people waiting to take his place.
I do find it very strange that they already threw his body into the sea though... :scratch: I guess they didn't want to end up with a place of pilgrimage, and I'm not saying he should have been stuffed and mounted, but at least with a normal burial there is the opportunity to exhume the remains, should the need ever arise - i.e. independent DNA testing...
I am never happy when some one dies till now.
I am OK when a child murderer dies as well,makes me smile all day in fact.
I am OK when a child murderer dies as well,makes me smile all day in fact.
Have to disagree there Jeff - (and now I'm going to be a hypocrite) - keep them alive as long as possible, but make every moment of their existence a living hell to the point where they are begging for it to end...
BTH K10A
02-05-2011, 21:55
I for one do find this thread very disturbing.
Whilst I too find the atrocities that Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organisations have perpetrated totally abhorrent, some of the comments here are little different to those espoused by islamic fundamentalists when an "infidel" is killed.
If we are to rejoice in the death of figureheads responsible for atrocities then who's next? The number of innocent people killed in 9/11 pales when compared with Iraq and yet there would be anger if the muslim world rejoiced in the death of Bush or Blair etc.
We have to be better than that. There is now fear of revenge attacks which in turn will provoke a response and the same cycle of death and suffering.
Yes the terrorists need to be stopped but we need to hold the high moral ground and the west must also start to address the fundamental issues that give credence to these terrorist causes. Then hopefully, we can all work towards a more peaceful and tolerant world.
So, with that said it's goodbye from me...
Hopefully just on this thread?
Fair enough, Andy. I understand and agree to a point. But I still think it's easy taking the "high moral ground" when you haven't suffered the loss or the psychological trauma that clearly others here have, who were/are closer to these atrocities than you or me.
However, we're all entitled to our opinion on this thorny subject, and yours is as valid as mine. There is no need for anyone to fall out :)
Marco.
kininigin
02-05-2011, 22:34
Hopefully just on this thread?
Fair enough, Andy. I understand and agree to a point. But I still think it's easy taking the "high moral ground" when you haven't suffered the loss or the psychological trauma that clearly others here have, who were/are closer to these atrocities than you or me.
However, we're all entitled to our opinion on this thorny subject, and yours is as valid as mine. There is no need for anyone to fall out :)
Marco.
I don't think anyones taking the ''moral high ground'' and i may not of directly been affected but i do have the ability to empathise and when something that tragic happens i get very upset.
You make some valid points marco but for me at least the arguement isn't that he represents what ''al queda'' stands for and so there is a percieved victory for the americans and it's allies but that he and the so called ''terrorist network'' he lead had nothing to do with what happened on 9/11.
A few years ago i went to a talk/conference? in Henley-on -thames in which a guy called william rodriguez gave a talk about what he experienced on 9/11.There were other speakers as well such as ex army generals ect,giving examples of false flag operations from the past but cannot remember thier names.
He brought me to tears with the story he told,i'll post a link to one of his talks as i think it's a must watch.This is a true hero
There may be disturbing images in the video,there were at the talk i went to anyway.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4380137365762802294
It’s a bit more complicated than some of the rather naïve views expressed not just here but all over the world.
Yes, it’s maybe a good thing that a figurehead of a radical religious group who advocated violence against civilians has gone. Better still if he had been brought to trial rather than killed by a state funded hit squad.
Anyway, to make a point.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/c613255a979d602c1a41e748894e5dd2ec7449dda3cb4b7877 8de275a3dfd2212g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=z95062nq96by04u&thumb=5)
Reputed to have committed terrible atrocities. Funded by Rome, with the Pope as the figurehead. Terrorist or religious fanatic?
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3f661656601bb137f191796939d56bedf41414517f1a1798ae a53f5878c0a10c2g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=2f7dgbppjxb14au&thumb=5)
IRA freedom fighter or terrorist?
Funded by the USA
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/5599ed53d4e4d5e50a195df93b8e8ba38d046f48be23b26fe2 d1c04a640abc9e2g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=ej5ptg65gjmjds4&thumb=5)
Gerry Adams MP or the IRA’s version of Bin Laden?
There are hundreds of such examples. I don’t mind the changes in status over time but it would be nice if they all stopped killing people in the name of god and freedom don’t you think. Makes it kinda hard to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys……….or maybe it’s not that simple either.
Hi Darren,
I don't think anyones taking the ''moral high ground''...
Well, it's what Andy was asking us to do. That's not something I'm comfortable with, I'm afraid, as I feel that it's disrespectful and demeans the justified strong emotions of some of the American people who witnessed these atrocities first-hand, or who were indeed actual victims of them.
One simply cannot judge what one does not truly know.
I'll have a look at the video you linked to, and comment further later :)
Marco.
kininigin
02-05-2011, 22:47
just to lighten the mood a little
I think he says ''he's dead'' then wallop lol
http://www.gifbin.com/984865
kininigin
02-05-2011, 22:49
Hi Darren,
Well, it's what Andy was asking us to do. That's not something I'm comfortable with, I'm afraid, as I feel that it's disrespectful and demeans the justified strong emotions of some of the American people who witnessed these atrocities first-hand, or who were indeed actual victims of them.
One simply cannot judge what one does not truly know.
I'll have a look at the video you linked to, and comment further later :)
Marco.
ok fair enough must have missed that post :)
WOStantonCS100
02-05-2011, 22:59
Good posts, chaps. I'm in agreement with the above :)
I think what's crucially important to remember in all of this is that I don't believe folks here are necessarily rejoicing over the death of Bin Laden the human being, but rather Bin Laden the deceased figurehead of the Al-Qaeda - and the disgusting and inhumane acts of barbarism carried out in his/its name.
I guess it's a form of 'closure' for some Americans, albeit in the long term an ineffectual and temporary one. And so I can totally sympathise with the strong feelings expressed here by the American members of our community, such as Jeff and Biff.
Can anyone here imagine what it must have been like as a New Yorker, for instance, having to live with the aftermath and sheer horror of 9/11 - perhaps being an eye-witness to those poor people committing suicide, by jumping off the Twin Towers, because they considered that dying that way was preferable to being burned alive, and dealing with seeing the horrific images of the aftermath of that tragedy, for months, and the psychological trauma for many that will have caused?
Or perhaps being one of those whose loved ones had phoned from one of the Twin Towers to say goodbye forever because they were just about to die a horrific death?? - And all because of the total lack of respect for innocent human life by Bin Laden and members of the Al-Qaeda, in the pursuit of religious fanaticism. Quite frankly, they are beneath scum.
I’m afraid that I abhor those who are prepared to take innocent human life so cheaply, all in the name of religious extremism. And so Bin Laden got his justified comeuppence. In fact, if we are to believe how the media have portrayed events, then he got off lightly, as far as I'm concerned. So let's cut the 'holier than thou' attitude I've seen here from some! ;)
None of us in the UK (other than those who were directly involved in the London bombings, or who perhaps lost loved ones during 9/11) can even BEGIN to comprehend having to deal with such atrocities, sitting here thousands of miles away in the comfort of our homes, still in the possession of all of our loved ones, with the freedom and safety to exist in peace.
So let's cut our American friends some slack, and allow them to blow off steam, by acknowledging the death of the figurehead of the organisation responsible for committing those atrocities, in whatever way they see fit, within the bounds of reasonable decency (all comments will be closely monitored), and not be judgemental of them justifiably expressing their strong emotions at this very difficult time.
Marco.
It was truly difficult for me to read that as it brought the whole thing back vividly to my mind. But, I thank you for explaining what I still find very difficult to talk about.
I am not a blood thirsty, Dirty Harry type. But, at some point, good has to fight back against evil, lest we all perish horridly. It is not possible to live in a world where all responses to issues are civil ones because the world isn't there yet. There are those who despite all advances in sociology are bent on aggression to the point of rape and murder. That is still the reality of life in the 21st century. Diplomacy does not and will never work for those who respect it not and have no regard for it. Love is a great ideal. And TV Christians (as I call them) love to extol "love"; but, they've forgotten the accounts of God wiping out 100s of thousands, even in one night. (If you so believe and if you're going to throw a verse out... make sure it's connected to the whole book.) While the hippie's were singing "all you need is love" and the civil rights activists were marching peacefully, they were being fed to the dogs, watered down with fire hoses and beaten senseless. Peace often does not always beget peace. It would be nice if it did.
This brings up another thought. I am not blind to what goes on in America. I live in no delusion. My ancestry includes Africa and the Cherokee nation as well as European nations. I am not only well aware of how the world (not just America) benefited from the slave trade; but, also how the Native Americans were forced onto reservations, how Japanese Americans were placed in camps and even how Jews are viewed in southern US, right now. We all want to move past that; but, we cannot if persons so bent on evil, such as but not limited to Osama aren't taken out in such a manner as to let all know that the citizens of this planet, who want to live in peace, will not in anyway tolerate their murderous behavior. Ask my stepmother who fled Austria to get away from Hitler and narrowly escaped death in the process. This wasn't just about attacking the west or America. The WTC and NYC in general is a place where the world comes together and where all the world is welcome. It is small minded for Americans and non-Americans alike to think 9/11 was about attacking America. No, it was about putting the whole world on notice, that this group of people wanted what they wanted at any cost and were/are still willing to do anything to obtain their objectives. We were all attacked on 9/11. When one civil person who values peace and civility is attacked, everyone else who values the same is attacked.
Neither do I blindly trust the media or any government. For those who do believe conspiracies abound. I will not argue. There have always been, big or small. I hold no special respect for anyone who may have been involved, whether in Osama's camp or nested right here in our own government. If there are Americans, or Brits or French persons (whoever, wherever) who were involved and are found out... ...shooting them would be the easy way out. I say give them a choice between burning to death or disintegrating into a pool of their own fluid by jumping off the tallest building in the world. We, in every country, diligently go about bringing justice to people who commit "minor" crimes and rejoice when they are brought to justice, even if that's just getting a ticket for speeding. I do not understand why we have such a problem when someone who has committed far greater atrocities comes to his end.
And now, in reflection, I'm not so happy. Far too many folks the world over have lost their lives and/or loved ones in all of this. So, to those who think badly of my rejoicing, know that is was short lived. But, I'm reserving the right to forever be very much pleased that Osama bin Laden is no longer walking this Earth.
One thing is for sure he won't be planning the death of members of this forum or there friends and family's and that is the whole damned point.
We should celebrate our victory over Evil and make no mistake he was an evil bastard.
Thing Fish
03-05-2011, 00:56
Can you say bastard on this forum...?
Don't be a stupid bastard! ;)
Marco.
Jac Hawk
03-05-2011, 21:30
It’s a bit more complicated than some of the rather naïve views expressed not just here but all over the world.
Yes, it’s maybe a good thing that a figurehead of a radical religious group who advocated violence against civilians has gone. Better still if he had been brought to trial rather than killed by a state funded hit squad.
Anyway, to make a point.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/c613255a979d602c1a41e748894e5dd2ec7449dda3cb4b7877 8de275a3dfd2212g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=z95062nq96by04u&thumb=5)
Reputed to have committed terrible atrocities. Funded by Rome, with the Pope as the figurehead. Terrorist or religious fanatic?
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3f661656601bb137f191796939d56bedf41414517f1a1798ae a53f5878c0a10c2g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=2f7dgbppjxb14au&thumb=5)
IRA freedom fighter or terrorist?
Funded by the USA
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/5599ed53d4e4d5e50a195df93b8e8ba38d046f48be23b26fe2 d1c04a640abc9e2g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=ej5ptg65gjmjds4&thumb=5)
Gerry Adams MP or the IRA’s version of Bin Laden?
There are hundreds of such examples. I don’t mind the changes in status over time but it would be nice if they all stopped killing people in the name of god and freedom don’t you think. Makes it kinda hard to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys……….or maybe it’s not that simple either.
Spot on John
Jac Hawk
03-05-2011, 21:35
Don't be a stupid bastard! ;)
Marco.
It's actually pronounced B'stard:lolsign:
anthonyTD
04-05-2011, 09:35
Spot on John
+1
A...
I am a little surprised at some of the responses both in articles and on this forum.
Just as how surprised I was to find books like 911The Big Lie being used as propaganda while I was in Pakistan. These kinds of books become reprinted into leaflets in Urdu and used to both insite anger and point to the U.S. government as the big satan.
The Wahhabi gladly take the credit for 911 as did Osama himself in a phone call to his own mother and reaffirmed by Koleed Shake Mohammad.
Yet these stupid theory's still go on.
I understand the UK has not had an attack on the same scale but it has been attacked and with East London's growing population of Muslims and the possibility of suria law being accepted along side British law. I would think top priority would be removing from the world those who kill in the name of Islam.
One thing the west has not done well at is pointing to the huge numbers of Muslims killed by Osama for not sending there boys to fight for him not to mention his help in building both Alkiada and the Taliban that killed,raped,disfigured thousands of people under his leadership.
This man was a murderer using religion to justify his blood lust,He was the Charles Manson of the middle east on a massive scale.
I have not made it a secret I am unhappy with our President Obama but he gets a huge thumbs up from me for this.
It doesn't mean I agree with him on anything else but he and our Navy seal team rid the world of a cold blooded killer.
When I see articles like this one,I'm glad most of his readership disagreed.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/03/bin-laden-death-us-patriot-reflex
It would almost seem the UK has forgotten two of my favorite Heroes of western culture,Margret Thatcher and Winston Churchill after 911 what would they have done. And would England have cheered at the death of it's enemy,Well they didn't morn the death of a man named Adolf Hitler,I can tell you that much.
P.S. I don't know anything about the IRA being funded by the U.S. but I do agree with the posters that we should have helped end it.
I am sorrily lacking in the history of England's involvement with Ireland or why England would care about such a poor little island with no resources of there own.
I welcome a good link or briefing from some one who knows more.
Jac Hawk
04-05-2011, 21:06
I am a little surprised at some of the responses both in articles and on this forum.
Just as how surprised I was to find books like 911The Big Lie being used as propaganda while I was in Pakistan. These kinds of books become reprinted into leaflets in Urdu and used to both insite anger and point to the U.S. government as the big satan.
The Wahhabi gladly take the credit for it as did Osama himself in a phone call to his own mother and reaffirmed by Koleed Shake Mohammad.
Yet these stupid theory's still go on.
I understand the UK has not had an attack on the same scale but it has been attacked and with East London's growing population of Muslims and the possibility of suria law being accepted along side British law. I would think top priority would be removing from the world those who kill in the name of Islam.
One thing the west has not done well at is pointing to the huge numbers of Muslims killed by Osama for not sending there boys to fight for him not to mention his help in building both Alkiada and the Taliban that killed,raped,disfigured thousands of people under his leadership.
This man was a murderer using religion to justify his blood lust,He was the Charles Manson of the middle east on a massive scale.
I have not made it a secret I am unhappy with our President Obama but he gets a huge thumbs up from me for this.
It doesn't mean I agree with him on anything else but he rid the world of a cold blooded killer.
When I see articles like this one,I'm glad most of his readership disagreed.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/03/bin-laden-death-us-patriot-reflex
A few points if i may.....
Ist off i was unaware that in britain we were going to allow suria law to run along side british law, and to be honnest i don't know where you got this info from but i reacon it's a million miles off.
Secondly i was also unaware the Bin Laden had anything to do with the Taliban, the Taliban were the "freedom fighters" that fought against the USSR during the sovient occupation of Afganistan, and were trained and supplied with weapons covertly by the CIA, after the russians left, they took control of the country.
Finaly the only reason Bin Laden was so successful with his organisation was that he had shed loads of cash so that his plans could be put into action, there are probably millions of people throughout the muslim world that feel as much hatred towards the west as Bin Laden, they don't like us interfearing with their countries, and lets face it the only reason we in the west give a rats ass about the afairs in the middle east is OIL end of story, if they had nothing we wanted none of this would be happening.
At the end of the day Truth is just the propeganda you choose to believe.
P.S. Jeff please don't take this as a personal dig, but you guys in the U.S.A don't seem to be bothered about world events, unless they involve you.
A few points if i may.....
Ist off i was unaware that in britain we were going to allow suria law to run along side british law, and to be honnest i don't know where you got this info from but i reacon it's a million miles off.
Secondly i was also unaware the Bin Laden had anything to do with the Taliban, the Taliban were the "freedom fighters" that fought against the USSR during the sovient occupation of Afganistan, and were trained and supplied with weapons covertly by the CIA, after the russians left, they took control of the country.
Finaly the only reason Bin Laden was so successful with his organisation was that he had shed loads of cash so that his plans could be put into action, there are probably millions of people throughout the muslim world that feel as much hatred towards the west as Bin Laden, they don't like us interfearing with their countries, and lets face it the only reason we in the west give a rats ass about the afairs in the middle east is OIL end of story, if they had nothing we wanted none of this would be happening.
At the end of the day Truth is just the propeganda you choose to believe.
1.There is a push in the Islamic world for western acceptance of Suria in western courts.
2. The U.S. and Saudi Arabia did support Bin Laden and the Mugahadeen in the war against the Russians,The Taliban came from Karachi Pakistan (menny ex members of the former Mugahadeen organised and funded by Osama. Think of Pakistan and Afghanistan much like the U.S. and Canada (no real borders) and openly traveled.
3.Sorry to completely disagree the first war between Islam and the U.S. happened at least 200 years before the advent of the automobile.
So oil was not the issue. read some history.
http://www.amazon.com/Pirate-Coast-Jefferson-Marines-Mission/dp/B000A5CJJ0
Muslim pirates where taking westerners as slaves,stealing ships and cargo.
Thomas Jefferson sailed to tripplei Lybia and to meet there king and resolve the issue.He was told that because Americans where non Muslims they had the right to Kill.enslave,tax or do what ever they wished with our sailors.
The car was not even invented yet.
Terror is no longer the primary goal of Islamc expantionests in the over throw of western civilization.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apTb3xKVpl0
Jac Hawk
04-05-2011, 21:24
Forgot to mension, i had to take my kids back home to Spain yesterday, i flew there and back yesterday afternoon, and ohhhhhh my god was the security tight in Stansted Airport, you had, armed police, sniffer dogs all over the place, and the border control officers were 3 deep, i even got stopped and questioned:eek:
Jac Hawk
04-05-2011, 21:44
3.Sorry to completely disagree the first war between Islam and the U.S. happened at least 200 years before the advent of the automobile.
So oil was not the issue. read some history.
http://www.amazon.com/Pirate-Coast-Jefferson-Marines-Mission/dp/B000A5CJJ0
Muslim pirates where taking westerners as slaves,stealing ships and cargo.
Thomas Jefferson sailed to tripplei Lybia and to meet there king and resolve the issue.He was told that because Americans where non Muslims they had the right to Kill.enslave,tax or do what ever they wished with our sailors.
The car was not even invented yet.
So why were sailors from Europe not treated the same? or were they? or was it that the Lybians thought they could get away with it, because the sailors were Americans and a long way from home, so military repercussions would be unlikely, also if you want to go back that far, were we not at war with you too:eek:
Jeff don't get me wrong, i don't agree with a lot of muslim beliefs, i find the way they treat women as distasteful, and many of their laws brutal and barbaric, but who are we to tell them what to believe.
Like i said, nowadays, the only reason we trouble ourselves with middle eastern affairs is the OIL that is under their soil, it's all about money, and it always has been.
Jack you said we don't care about the worlds problems till they involve the U.S.
I really don't feel we should do any different,we can not afford to be the worlds police and we are hated for the help we have given.
Can you name a country that has helped more in disaster relief?
We gave Africa 60 billion in one huge payment to help stop the spread of aids.
Tsunami relief,earthquakes,ect...
We do support our Alis and our own interests,and help others more than any country in the world "what more do you want?"
Have we not helped the whole UK get access to oil too,thats why we just supported France who gets there oil from Lyibia ,we don't buy there oil and we havent got one barrel of oil from Iraq for the billions we spent but the rest of the world has benefited from the war we paid for.
The U.S. is not perfect,we are not saints but we have not been monsters to the world as a super power either.
I believe we have been pretty thoughtful along the way for the most part.
Best of Luck when China becomes the big stick in the world.
Jac Hawk
04-05-2011, 22:15
I'm not saying you don't give help, but there always seems to be a kick back, after the 1st war with Iraq, after they invaded Kuwait, did not most of the lucrative contracts for rebuilding pipelines, oil pumping stations etc go to American companies? it's not the U.S. government that gets anything, but American companies always seem to do quite nicely after a good ole war, they in turn pay taxes to whom?
Ohh and by the way, during the 80's we had a little scurmish with Argentina after they invaded a british island called the Falklands, i recall we asked for U.S help, did we get any?................erm NO, not even a trade imbargo, like i said, you help there's no dennying it, but only if you get something in return, a nice jucey contract say.
Anyway mate lets not fall out, it may not seem to be the case but i really like Americans and America for that matter, i rent my place in Jerez in Spain to the U.S. Navy for gods sake, but there are a few things that are just best left alone, politics and religion
kininigin
04-05-2011, 22:29
i may be wrong here jeff, but it does seem you have a somewhat anti islamic agenda and maybe religious views are obscuring possible alternative scenarios.
The oldest trick in the book devide and conquer.
kininigin
04-05-2011, 22:34
Forgot to mension, i had to take my kids back home to Spain yesterday, i flew there and back yesterday afternoon, and ohhhhhh my god was the security tight in Stansted Airport, you had, armed police, sniffer dogs all over the place, and the border control officers were 3 deep, i even got stopped and questioned:eek:
im flying to munich on sunday from gatwick,i hope i don't have to deal with some brain dead half wit with a power trip,as i might say something that might piss them off.
I'm not saying you don't give help, but there always seems to be a kick back, after the 1st war with Iraq, after they invaded Kuwait, did not most of the lucrative contracts for rebuilding pipelines, oil pumping stations etc go to American companies? it's not the U.S. government that gets anything, but American companies always seem to do quite nicely after a good ole war, they in turn pay taxes to whom?
Ohh and by the way, during the 80's we had a little scurmish with Argentina after they invaded a british island called the Falklands, i recall we asked for U.S help, did we get any?................erm NO, not even an trade imbargo, like i said, you help there's no dennying it, but only if you get something in return, a nice jucey contract say.
Anyway mate lets not fall out, it may not seem to be the case but i really like Americans and America for that matter, i rent my place in Jerez in Spain to the U.S. Navy for gods sake, but there are a few things that are just best left alone, politics and religion
Fair enough but didn't Britain take the Falklands islands like Grant took Richmond,I mean it all happened pretty fast.
I knew people going to collage here from Argentina who said the retaking was a slaughter.
I do remember reading that the people on that island voted to remain under British rule.
It was not a well appreciated comment back then,yet we still remained friends.
I don't believe we get much for the Billions we have spent or we wouldn't have gotten into so much debt.
I will always feel a brother hood with Brittan and would pack my owe bag or my sons bag to defend her,same as my own country as we are much as the same people but it ticks me off greatly when we are always mislabeled the big bully over the world.We have not ever been that.
As far as the middle east the U.S. has been bleeding green to keep peace there for 50 years.There has been less tribal wars since U.S. involvement and a larger peace then ever before in there history.
You could say we have sponsored peace in the middle east at great cost,It would have been far cheaper to just kill everyone and take there oil if that was the end game.
That area of the world was at war before King Arthur was born.
War over soil is all they know,it will remain that way till end of days.
Jac Hawk
04-05-2011, 22:49
im flying to munich on sunday from gatwick,i hope i don't have to deal with some brain dead half wit with a power trip,as i might say something that might piss them off.
Just don't :eek: border control is a law unto itself, and yes they love the power trip
Jac Hawk
04-05-2011, 22:58
Fair enough but didn't Britain take the Falklands islands like Grant took Richmond,I mean it all happened pretty fast.
I knew people going to collage here from Argentina who said the retaking was a slaughter.
I do remember reading that the people on that island voted to remain under British rule.
It was not a well appreciated comment back then,yet we still remained friends.
I don't believe we get much for the Billions we have spent or we wouldn't have gotten into so much debt.
I will always feel a brother hood with Brittan and would pack my owe bag or my sons bag to defend her,same as my own country as we are much as the same people but it ticks me off greatly when we are always mislabeled the big bully over the world.We have not ever been that.
As far as the middle east the U.S. has been bleeding green to keep peace there for 50 years.There has been less tribal wars since U.S. involvement and a larger peace then ever before in there history.
You could say we have sponsored peace in the middle east at great cost,It would have been far cheaper to just kill everyone and take there oil if that was the end game.
That area of the world was at war before King Arthur was born.
To be honnest mate, i think a lot of the recent problems stem back to the 70's, when the CIA was, shall we say a little too envolved in who ran what in the middle east, also there's no denying the fact that the U.S hasn't lifted a finger with regards to Israel and some of the international laws it's broken, when it comes to Isreal words will do, also they do seem to buy an awful lot of arms from you guys, maybe that's the reason you guys turn the cheek when it comes to their indiscreations.
i may be wrong here jeff, but it does seem you have a somewhat anti islamic agenda and maybe religious views are obscuring possible alternative scenarios.
The oldest trick in the book devide and conquer. Huh?
Anti Islamic agenda?
95% not 90% or 60% of the country (my wife is from) support Osama Bin Laden and openly talk about a Islamic State of America.) Poll taken by Al jizira just after 911.
Wahhabisum is growing it is an uncompromising sect of Islam that believes in killing all those Kufers who will not convert to Islam.
Yes, I oppose that in a non apologetic kind of way!:doh:
And I have no plans of changing my religion, Do you?
Hey,I know what you can get for your wife or girl freind on her next birthday a Burka!
This way she can start getting used to it.
To be honnest mate, i think a lot of the recent problems stem back to the 70's, when the CIA was, shall we say a little too envolved in who ran what in the middle east, also there's no denying the fact that the U.S hasn't lifted a finger with regards to Israel and some of the international laws it's broken, when it comes to Isreal words will do, also they do seem to buy an awful lot of arms from you guys, maybe that's the reason you guys turn the cheek when it comes to their indiscreations.
Israel gave up the whole west bank to get a peace agreement that was violated before the ink dried.
What has the Palestinians done to promote even a seize fire,nothing.
Israel is constantly under attack from Palestinians and has shown huge restraint 99% of the time.
kininigin
04-05-2011, 23:16
Huh?
Anti Islamic agenda?
95% not 90% or 60% of the country (my wife is from) support Osama Bin Laden and openly talk about a Islamic State of America.)
Wahhabisum is growing it is an uncompromising sect of Islam that believes in killing all those Kufers who will not convert to Islam.
Yes, I oppose that in a non apologetic kind of way!:doh:
And I have no plans of changing my religion, Do you?
Hey,I know what you can get for your wife or girl freind on her next birthday a Burka!
This way she can start getting used to it.
The point i was trying to make was that while,those who are christian,muslim,black,white ect argue fight amongst each other there are those in power who,while claiming in the public arena to be christian,muslim,conservative liberal ect and are none of those things,and play each oppossing group off against each other while they roll out there agenda,and whilst all the distractions are played out you cannot see the woods for the trees.
kininigin
04-05-2011, 23:27
Just don't :eek: border control is a law unto itself, and yes they love the power trip
I'll try,but cannot promise anything :lolsign:
The historic conflict between Christians and Muslims is irrelevant with regard to this particular issue.
The point is the USA and doubtless the UK has supported terrorism throughout the world if it suited their particular political agenda at that time. Unfortunately the USA isn’t very good at it and has the unfortunate propensity for supplying arms to various groups only to find that as the world changes the very arms they supplied end up getting used against them.
For what is in historic terms a very young country with a very poor understanding of global history and lots of largely Christian backed money to invest in arms, a very profitable trade as long as they are used elsewhere, perhaps they are not best suited to being the world police. I certainly don’t recall anyone asking for them to adopt this role.
The shock at finding out that despite their enormous wealth and investment in national security a little known splinter terrorist group was able to launch such a devastating attack on their home soil shook the nation to its foundations.
Over here in Europe and the rest of the world in fact, well, we’re kind of used to it.
The point is its hard to condemn terrorism on the one hand and supply it arms and technology on the other and then try to persuade the rest of the world that your sole objective in taking what are often both politically and financially lucrative military action on foreign soil has the sole objective of curtailing terrorism.
Add to that America presents itself as the guardians of justice and freedom and then sends a professional government hit squad to a foreign country, probably without that countries explicit consent to kill what may or may not have been an active participant in a terrorist attack looks rather like wild west lynch mob mentality bent on revenge and ego preservation and little to do with justice.
As for Jeffs concerns about China….well, lets wait and see, at least it wont be a bunch of cowboys and they’ll probably have the good manners to bow and offer us a decent cup of tea before they fuck us all over.
The Grand Wazoo
04-05-2011, 23:32
Gents,
Politics and religion - individually, each of those are tricky things to deal with without tempers becoming flared and things starting to get unseemly.
Mix them together and the potential for an upset becomes rather more obvious.
So can we try to be sure we keep on the straight and narrow here please?
Just to remind you of a few things in the AoS Ethos:
Virtuosity and goodness.
Goodwill to those you address.
Using wisdom and knowledge in a practical way.
and:
The usual requirement of not deliberately causing offence to others applies here.
Thank you.
Stratmangler
04-05-2011, 23:37
I'll try,but cannot promise anything :lolsign:
Darren
Please, keep the smart comments to yourself - unless of course you want to find out how seriously inconvenienced you will be if customs and immigration take an interest in your existence.
These people are not noted for having any kind of sense of humour, and will take great delight in detaining you for a long period of time, just to piss you off even more than you pissed them off should you make any "smart" comments.
WOStantonCS100
04-05-2011, 23:38
First, what country anywhere does not put it's own interests first or desire to maintain it's sovereignty first, regardless of whether it helps another??? Are you a student of history? Name one. The US? No. UK? No. Russia. No. Pakistan. No. Italy. No. Do I really have to go any further?
If every country in this world of ours had to answer for doing things or making policies that another country didn't like, all citizenry everywhere would be sentenced to death. There are no saintly countries; because, they are all made up of humans with the human condition. End of story. The continual "your country is worse than ours finger pointing mentality" is a kin to a fart in a bag. It's not gonna go anywhere and it's gonna smell like hell when the bag is opened.
Political conjecture means absolutely nothing when it comes down to it and totally misses the point of why people just about anywhere should be glad Osama is not around. My father emailed me recently concerning this. He used to work for a multi-national corporation. They lost 9 people in the Windows On The World restaurant(s) on 9/11 and one in the first plane. The OP was about being glad, a known murderer, is gone.
Lastly, and then I'll remove myself from this conversation, to say the US doesn't care unless it affects them is utter garbage. The "US" is a very non-specific term when comes down to those who reside here. Once again, I would remind persons that the US (like a good number of other countries) is made up of peoples from around the globe, many of whom have close relational ties to family and friends overseas. To again make a blanket statement that "we" don't care is rubbish.
The historic conflict between Christians and Muslims is irrelevant with regard to this particular issue.
The point is the USA and doubtless the UK has supported terrorism throughout the world if it suited their particular political agenda at that time. Unfortunately the USA isn’t very good at it and has the unfortunate propensity for supplying arms to various groups only to find that as the world changes the very arms they supplied end up getting used against them.
For what is in historic terms a very young country with a very poor understanding of global history and lots of largely Christian backed money to invest in arms, a very profitable trade as long as they are used elsewhere, perhaps they are not best suited to being the world police. I certainly don’t recall anyone asking for them to adopt this role.
The shock at finding out that despite their enormous wealth and investment in national security a little known splinter terrorist group was able to launch such a devastating attack on their home soil shook the nation to its foundations.
Over here in Europe and the rest of the world in fact, well, we’re kind of used to it.
The point is its hard to condemn terrorism on the one hand and supply it arms and technology on the other and then try to persuade the rest of the world that your sole objective in taking what are often both politically and financially lucrative military action on foreign soil has the sole objective of curtailing terrorism.
Add to that America presents itself as the guardians of justice and freedom and then sends a professional government hit squad to a foreign country, probably without that countries explicit consent to kill what may or may not have been an active participant in a terrorist attack looks rather like wild west lynch mob mentality bent on revenge and ego preservation and little to do with justice.
As for Jeffs concerns about China….well, lets wait and see, at least it wont be a bunch of cowboys and they’ll probably have the good manners to bow and offer us a decent cup of tea before they fuck us all over.
If I where to respond to this as I feel it deserves it surly would break all the forum rules so I am going to let my above comments stand and respect the Forum, but this is nothing more than a hit piece against my county and should be taken as such.
Strangely enough Jeff it’s sort of my country as well being half American and having dual nationality. That doesn’t mean I have to ignore the truth though does it :)
Strangely enough Jeff it’s sort of my country as well being half American and having dual nationality. That doesn’t mean I have to ignore the truth though does it :)
Comparing our Navy Seals to a lynch mob because they killed a mass murderer who was continuing to plot terror attacks against the western world in a country that has lied to us and tipped off Bin Laden before,harboring him for 5 or 6 years...
In a country we have spent 6 billion dollars a year building roads,schools,hospitals and training there military.
And you dare criticize the U.S. for our actions?
This is your truth?:mental:
What would you call it then Jeff? It definitely wasn’t an arrest and sent to trial was it?
A government hit sound any better?
Lets try to ignore all the emotive stuff for a moment and concentrate on the principles of justice and fair trial.
I would say exactly the same if we were talking about any of the similar operations the SAS have carried out.
Jac Hawk
05-05-2011, 00:00
Israel gave up the whole west bank to get a peace agreement that was violated before the ink dried.
What has the Palestinians done to promote even a seize fire,nothing.
Israel is constantly under attack from Palestinians and has shown huge restraint 99% of the time.
But wasn't Isreal, Palestine before the end of the 2nd world war, and were not the founders of what is now Isreal, Jews from Germany, Poland etc. and did they not initially take the West Bank and Gaza Strip from the Palestinians. the Answer to all the above is yes i think. Mate the Isrealies get away with murder, but you guys seem to be happy to let them do what they want, ohh as long as they continue to buy their guns from you, the largest arms dealers on the planet.
Anyway this thread was ment to be about the death of Osama Bin Laden, and we've gone a bit off topic, and with regards to that, i'm sure we the public have been told what we needed to know about what happend, i don't think the actual truth will ever come out, i'm frankly a little supprised that Pakistan hasn't kicked off about a foreign militery operation being conducted on it's land without it permission, all that says to the muslim world is that the U.S.A can do what it wants, where it wants, without any repercussions, which in turn is going to piss them off even more, it would have looked a lot better if the Pakistan government had captured him or killed him, and would have sent a clearer message to would be muslim terrorists that Pakistan is no hiding place for fugitives.
kininigin
05-05-2011, 00:06
Darren
Please, keep the smart comments to yourself - unless of course you want to find out how seriously inconvenienced you will be if customs and immigration take an interest in your existence.
These people are not noted for having any kind of sense of humour, and will take great delight in detaining you for a long period of time, just to piss you off even more than you pissed them off should you make any "smart" comments.
I treat people how i like to be treated but if some goon decides to violate my rights or is being unreasonable i will voice my opinion on the matter if it ever came to that,even if it means being detained.
I know we don't have the tsa over here but if someone trys to treat me like what some of the tsa in the usa treat there passengers then i will say something.
If standing up for your rights and expecting to be treated with respect means being seriously inconvenienced then so be it,chris i do take these matters seriously.:)
Stratmangler
05-05-2011, 00:12
I treat people how i like to be treated but if some goon decides to violate my rights or is being unreasonable i will voice my opinion on the matter if it ever came to that,even if it means being detained.
I know we don't have the tsa over here but if someone trys to treat me like what some of the tsa in the usa treat there passengers then i will say something.
If standing up for your rights and expecting to be treated with respect means being seriously inconvenienced then so be it,chris i do take these matters seriously.:)
Just looking out for your interests Darren :)
But wasn't Isreal, Palestine before the end of the 2nd world war, and were not the founders of what is now Isreal, Jews from Germany, Poland etc. and did they not initially take the West Bank and Gaza Strip from the Palestinians. the Answer to all the above is yes i think. Mate the Isrealies get away with murder, but you guys seem to be happy to let them do what they want, ohh as long as they continue to buy their guns from you, the largest arms dealers on the planet.
Anyway this thread was ment to be about the death of Osama Bin Laden, and we've gone a bit off topic, and with regards to that, i'm sure we the public have been told what we needed to know about what happend, i don't think the actual truth will ever come out, i'm frankly a little supprised that Pakistan hasn't kicked off about a foreign militery operation being conducted on it's land without it permission, all that says to the muslim world is that the U.S.A can do what it wants, where it wants, without any repercussions, which in turn is going to piss them off even more, it would have looked a lot better if the Pakistan government had captured him or killed him, and would have sent a clearer message to would be muslim terrorists that Pakistan is no hiding place for fugitives.
No President of Pakistan would assist in his capture or death,that would be suicide.
second,there where no Palestinians,Palestine was a region and after the Israelis left was occupied by people from mostly Jordan who later called themselves Palestinians.And England played a huge part of relocating and reestablishing Israel after the war as did we.
But we did it badly displacing people f0rom there homes with out helping them in anyway (that was a terrible wrong) but the killing that has come as a result,is an even bigger wrong.
kininigin
05-05-2011, 00:15
Just looking out for your interests Darren :)
cheers mate,im sure nothing will happen i travel fairly frequently and have had no problems as of yet.
What would you call it then Jeff? It definitely wasn’t an arrest and sent to trial was it?
A government hit sound any better?
Lets try to ignore all the emotive stuff for a moment and concentrate on the principles of justice and fair trial.
I would say exactly the same if we were talking about any of the similar operations the SAS have carried out.
Would the out come be any different if we dropped a bomb killing hundreds to get him?
This is not a police action but a war,there are no Maranda rights!
Did England try to arrest the Nazi's or did they shoot them?
Duh...
"Hey Hitler stop" or well shoot ,you have the right to an attorney,If you can't afford an attorney you will be afforded one,ect... ect..
"BANG GAME OVER"
Jac Hawk
05-05-2011, 00:21
Just looking out for your interests Darren :)
Well a year or 2 ago my girlfriend tried to come over here from the U.S. lets just say the border agency didn't like the look of her and sent her packing, i was told by them that they thought she was looking to stay longer than her visa allowed, even though she had a job in the states working for the federal gov no less, they could have easily checked out when she was due back at work, she even had a return ticket, but no, i was fcuking furious, i even phoned my MP and was told they answer to no one, can do what they want, interperate the law how they want, so basically if they don't like the look of ya, you're buggered:eek:
Jac Hawk
05-05-2011, 00:27
Would the out come be any different if we dropped a bomb killing hundreds to get him?
This is not a police action but a war,there are no Maranda rights!
Did England try to arrest the Nazi's or did they shoot them?
Duh...
"Hey Hitler stop" or well shoot ,you have the right to an attorney,If you can't afford an attorney you will be afforded one,ect... ect..
"BANG GAME OVER"
Hold on a sec jeff, Adolf Hittler was the elected leader of his country, and it was the country that went to war not the individual, and by the way did we not capture and try a great many Nazi's at Nurenberg, i'm sure if Hittler could have been captured and tried, he would have been.
Well a year or 2 ago my girlfriend tried to come over here from the U.S. lets just say the border agency didn't like the look of her and sent her packing, i was told by them that they thought she was looking to stay longer than her visa allowed, even though she had a job in the states working for the federal gov no less, they could have easily checked out when she was due back at work, she even had a return ticket, but no, i was fcuking furious, i even phoned my MP and was told they answer to no one, can do what they want, interperate the law how they want, so basically if they don't like the look of ya, you're buggered:eek:
My wife is From Pakistan,we where married less than 60 miles from where Osama was killed less than 10 miles from where they arrested KSM.
It took a year to bring her here,I used 3 attorneys,had the help of a U.S. congressman who sent a letter to immigration to check on her status,it took a huge effort on my part and we are still working on her citizenship 6 years later with a son to boot.
You gave up to easily,it is not easy my friend but it can be done,legally.
Hmmm, I think I’ll wish you all a good night ;)
Hold on a sec jeff, Adolf Hittler was the elected leader of his country, and it was the country that went to war not the individual, and by the way did we not capture and try a great many Nazi's at Nurenberg, i'm sure if Hittler could have been captured and tried, he would have been.
Capture only works if they surrender,he did not, as far as I know.
And Osama was being harbored,you kill your enemy where ever he is and we took great care in not killing anyone else.
England would have done things any different given the same circumstances?
Bin Ladin would have you killed as a non Muslim on his soil,toughen up man!
This isn't soccer,it's saving lives!
kininigin
05-05-2011, 00:37
My wife is From Pakistan,we where married less than 60 miles from where Osama was killed less than 10 miles from where they arrested KSM.
It took a year to bring her here,I used 3 attorneys,had the help of a U.S. congressman who sent a letter to immigration to check on her status,it took a huge effort on my part and we are still working on her citizenship 6 years later with a son to boot.
You gave up to easily,it is not easy my friend but it can be done,legally.
respect jeff
kininigin
05-05-2011, 00:38
Hmmm, I think I’ll wish you all a good night ;)
+1
Good night my friends across the pond.
Jac Hawk
05-05-2011, 00:44
No President of Pakistan would assist in his capture or death,that would be suicide.
second,there where no Palestinians,Palestine was a region and after the Israelis left was occupied by people from mostly Jordan who later called themselves Palestinians.And England played a huge part of relocating and reestablishing Israel after the war as did we.
But we did it badly displacing people f0rom there homes with out helping them in anyway (that was a terrible wrong) but the killing that has come as a result,is an even bigger wrong.
But at the end of the day, you guys did enter a foreign country without permission to execute a terrorist, what gives you the right to do that? how would you feel if a british person fled to the U.S.A, after being accused of terrorism in country not friendly with the U.S.A, only then to find that, that counry sent a group into your country without permission and kill the british person accused of terrorism? it would piss you off.
Jac Hawk
05-05-2011, 00:48
My wife is From Pakistan,we where married less than 60 miles from where Osama was killed less than 10 miles from where they arrested KSM.
It took a year to bring her here,I used 3 attorneys,had the help of a U.S. congressman who sent a letter to immigration to check on her status,it took a huge effort on my part and we are still working on her citizenship 6 years later with a son to boot.
You gave up to easily,it is not easy my friend but it can be done,legally.
Well it's all been sorted out now, i was just giving an example of how the border agency over here can be.
But at the end of the day, you guys did enter a foreign country without permission to execute a terrorist, what gives you the right to do that? how would you feel if a british person fled to the U.S.A, after being accused of terrorism in country not friendly with the U.S.A, only then to find that, that counry sent a group into your country without permission and kill the british person accused of terrorism? it would piss you off.
The right is selfevidant, We probably stopped an attack in both the U.S. and U.K.
Self preservation and the right to defend our selves is justification enough.
What right dose Pakistan have to complain,they take billions from us lie to us and hide him right next to there military hospital so he could get kidney dialysis,he was so well protected he didn't even need guards.
I am willing to bet Pakistan was getting paid pretty well by his family to hide him.
Playing both sides to there advantage.The shame is all on Pakistan.
A British person would never commit an act of terrorism so will never know,it's not in there blood to act cowardly.
They have been known to dress silly at times though.
:doh:
kininigin
05-05-2011, 01:08
just come across this,would be interested in peoples opinions on this,i'll comment tomorrow,definately going to bed now :lol:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag.html
I do have deep concerns having read about this man Steve Pieczeink and his time under Henry Kissinger and with the CFR.
If what he is saying is true there would be the largest uprising the world has ever seen.
People under estimate the spirit of the people in this country, it would cause complete civil
upheaval on a unthinkable scale .
But most likely he is just trying to promote another best selling book as he wrights with Tom Clancy.
http://www.ibs.it/code/9788817040143/clancy-tom-perry-steve/net-force.html
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/pakistan_s_nukes_144.html
A big problem is that the Nukes in Pakistan's tribal regions are not secure from the Taliban and Al Qaida and since there small arsenal of once 14 is now possibly 150,75 for sure.That should concern the world.
These are not small 15 to 20 kiloton war heads but Soviet war heads in the Megaton family, 20 to 50 Megatons each.
I am also worried about Saudi Arabia's Nukes as well,If they fall into the hands of the Wahhabi rebels we have even more trouble.At least for now the Saudi Royal family is still holding it all together.
Techno Commander
05-05-2011, 11:45
From the book of faces. :)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8i1Hyus8Ryc/TcH8z9HlsMI/AAAAAAAADNY/E7EywCcl55Y/s640/Osamba+on+Facebook.jpg
kininigin
05-05-2011, 12:04
this whole story has false flag written all over it and think we need to seriously look at what is happening here.
Listen carefully to what this man is saying and consider
kGv7lJDTIvg
mcZ1j5YhORw
Jac Hawk
05-05-2011, 20:18
It's no secret that the CIA were heavily involved in covert middle east affairs in the 70's, seems logical that they are still playing games.
There's more to this than meets the eye.
Reid Malenfant
05-05-2011, 20:22
From the book of faces. :)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8i1Hyus8Ryc/TcH8z9HlsMI/AAAAAAAADNY/E7EywCcl55Y/s640/Osamba+on+Facebook.jpg
Oh hell, i must read this thread tomorrow (too mashed right now) :lolsign: Therefore now bookmarked :)
Jeff's link contains several factual errors. Most are fairly trivial, but taken in toto are sufficient to cast doubt on the whole.
That's the trouble with conspiracy theories, you can't discuss them sensibly, as witness the above video clips.
Everybody knows the world is run by the 10' tall lizard-like members of the Bilderberger group! :lol:
Then theres this...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383011/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Pakistanis-burn-US-flags-backlash-grows.html
Jeff, you do realise the paper you are quoting? The Daily Mail is considered a bit of a joke by right minded thinking people. It's quite handy for wiping your arse with though!
Beechwoods
06-05-2011, 09:47
This discussion has pretty much run it's course, so we're putting it to bed for a while. Thanks everyone.
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