View Full Version : Caiman: Bantam Gold vs. Mini-T
Hi guys,
The Gator-Caiman comes tomorrow (can't wait), and while I'm burning it in with headphones (HD595's for the time being) and FLAC Pink Floyd (bring it on) I'd like to get the amp + speakers + cables nailed :¬)
Just been reading the very information-rich threads regarding these amps. The threads activity ended a few months ago so I wondered if more burn in time has changed anything.
From what I've read, the BG may not be worth the extra ton, and lacks a little in deep bass. The Mini-T seems to get rave feedback when used with a 12V 5A PSU.
I found this on fleabay...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mini-T-T-Amp-HiFi-Amplifier-5A-PSU-TA2020-UK-SELLER-/180635350560#ht_3211wt_1030
Is that the model you guys have been discussing? I'm not to grips with the variances of the different TA20XX models.
Close to pulling the trigger :¬)
My study is only small (2m x 3m), and the speakers sit pretty much right infront of me (about 2 feet), either side of the monitor (sitting on a deep window ledge). Currently using M-Audio AV40's. Attached a photo as it's much easier to get an idea. Speakers that aren't anal over positioning are the biggest factor for me :¬)
Considering the size of the room, and my close proximity to the speakers, I don't need too much power. Still after deep, tight bass of course (and the rest!).
This is the speaker shortlist...
AN AX-2 £500 (90dB)
EB1 £470 (86dB)
DM 2/6 £450 (86dB)
Arcaydis DM1 £310 (87dB)
Dali Lektor 2 £250 (85dB)
Aviano 1XR £200 (89dB)
MA BX2 £225 (90dB)
I'd rather not spend more than £300, but am a stickler for quality. My question I suppose, is with either of the TAmps, and the close proximity, do I even need anything more than the sub £200?
Some ideas would be very much appreciated, I'm new to all of this, and a tad saturated with options at the moment. Even if the comment is "BX2 are fussy with space", that's still very helpful :¬)
With the window blind up, I have about 28cm gap between window and back of current speakers.
Thanks guys!
Edit, oh, on a side note, I saw that Gazjam bought this for his Caiman...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/13.8v-regulated-mains-power-units-231?c=54264&u=skim2113x565594xd9b0fae359e1257b6792aa371fd2cb1c
Should I do the same? :¬)
Study set-up...
jandl100
27-04-2011, 06:20
Hi Ross
I'm the happy camper who started the fuss about the Mini-T amp on the Wigwam forum. :eyebrows:
A fine amp, regardless of cost imho.
As you may have seen amongst the forest of posts on the amp, I tried a TA2022 chip amp, and I don't think it matched the openness and speed that is the magic I hear from the TA2020 amps. Forget the TA2024 amps if what you have read about the Mini-T appeals - they are not bad, but slow and closed-in in comparison. So despite the extra power available from the BG 2022 amp (which in your circumstances, as you say, is probably not needed anyway) I'd go for a TA2020 amp. My choice would still be the Mini-T, as I have found it to be better (although far from night & day) than a Muse TA2020 amp that I also own.
And, yes, the eBay link you give is the Mini-T that I rave on about. :)
As for speakers .... I suspect this is an important choice for getting the best out of the Mini-T. I think it thrives on an easy load - by this I don't mean sensitivity (my 83dB/W MBL speakers seem a good match, and that is pretty low sensitivity) but a fairly even impedance that doesn't dive down to 4 ohms or below at midrange or bass frequencies would be preferred. Those dinky PSU's just can't be expected to provide enough real world current into low impedances.
I have only a passing familiarity with most of the speakers on your shortlist, but sadly I think I would go for the more expensive ones! The "BBC midrange" available from the DM2 (I assume this is an old B&W?) would be an excellent match for the openness of the Mini-T, and I always like AN speakers (and they have an easy load which would also be good).
Arcaydis, Aviano, EB1 ... sorry, not at all familar with those!
To my ears, MA speakers tend to be too bright and forward, but I'm not that familiar with all the models. The openness of the Mini-T is quite exceptional, imo, and would tend to allow thru and seem to highlight any brightness in the speaker.
I'm a bit wary of the ribbon hybrid Dali's ... complex crossover maybe that would be hard to drive? Dunno.
I'd be happy to loan you my Mini-T if that would be any help, just PM me your address. :)
Hope some of that helps! :cool:
Hi Jerry,
Thank you! The DM 2/6's are on the list as I can't find Dynaudio 42's. They do also get great reviews.
The only thing that worries me is, firstly, from What Hi-Fi (I know, I know!):
Against
Needs a punchy amp to shine
They mentioned the Naim Nait 5i in their review (http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Dynaudio-DM-26/), which is rather nice amp :¬)
6moons (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dynaudio2/dm_2.html) review said:
Dynaudios need a lot of power to show their best. The DM 2/6 was less efficient than the Xavians and KEFs. It's not a real disadvantage, just a feature you must cater to. With the proper amp, these will offer wonderful sound.
A couple of questions, in your experience, can the Mini-T deliver for harder speakers? I also listen to rock and 'deep bassy digital' music (Trentmoller, Zero7). Again, is this suited to the Mini-T?
Thank you very much for the loan offer. I'd probably just plump for one, as it seems an unbelievable bargain from what yourself, Gaz and others have mentioned :¬)
jandl100
27-04-2011, 07:18
Ah, well, What Hifi ... :)
"Punchy amp". Well, yes, the Mini-T is a punchy amp within its power band. It has a "dynamic speed" that leaves most amps sounding stodgy and out of breath, imho.
The bass is a somewhat more contentious issue. It's a bit lean for some folks. But it goes deep and is seriously taut and controlled - no flab at all. I would call it very good bass, others look for a bloomier, fuller sound.
It's a tricky one and is down to personal taste.
As for Dynaudios .. they are a real bastard to drive (if you'll pardon my French) ... but I got one PM from a guy on the Wigwam forum (he was too scared to post on the open forum as it was getting a bit feisty at the time :eyebrows:) and said the Mini-T was fabulous with his Dyns. Which left me a bit baffled, I must admit. :scratch:
:)
The Vinyl Adventure
27-04-2011, 07:41
Yep yep yep ... Dyn 42a(4ohm/86db) + bantam = :)
Not tried with mini-t I don't think ... Im pretty certain I got it after I took the x-overs out
Still been mulling boxing the x-overs so I could give it a try, just need some spare speaker cable ... ...
But if it worked with the bantam ... It should work with the t-amp I'd guess ... Although nothing could be that simple in hifi could it ;)
I'm not a huge fan o a lot of the monitor audio range ... Some are nice, and I haven't heard bx1's yet ...
If only you were closer ... I could show you a bunch of relevant kit working together ...
I still think you should add usher s520 to that list ... They are lovely speakers!! And in combo with caiman and a modded x10d valve buffer sound absolutely wonderful with a mini t ... ...
Ali Tait
27-04-2011, 07:50
I have heard both in the same system and there is no contest IMHO, the Gold is a much better amp. Not bass light at all, you just need to use the right speakers i.e. easy to drive. A lot of small speakers are a harder load in the bass frequencies, which may be leading to the bass light claims.
Not to say the mini t is a poor amp, it isn't, it's just I think the Gold is well worth the extra.
Ah, well, What Hifi ... :)
"Punchy amp". Well, yes, the Mini-T is a punchy amp within its power band. It has a "dynamic speed" that leaves most amps sounding stodgy and out of breath, imho.
The bass is a somewhat more contentious issue. It's a bit lean for some folks. But it goes deep and is seriously taut and controlled - no flab at all. I would call it very good bass, others look for a bloomier, fuller sound.
It's a tricky one and is down to personal taste.
As for Dynaudios .. they are a real bastard to drive (if you'll pardon my French) ... but I got one PM from a guy on the Wigwam forum (he was too scared to post on the open forum as it was getting a bit feisty at the time :eyebrows:) and said the Mini-T was fabulous with his Dyns. Which left me a bit baffled, I must admit. :scratch:
:)
Yes that does confuse things somewhat. It depends on the guys tastes I suppose, as with anything (everything) we experience subjectively.
Yep yep yep ... Dyn 42a(4ohm/86db) + bantam = :)
Not tried with mini-t I don't think ... Im pretty certain I got it after I took the x-overs out
Still been mulling boxing the x-overs so I could give it a try, just need some spare speaker cable ... ...
But if it worked with the bantam ... It should work with the t-amp I'd guess ... Although nothing could be that simple in hifi could it ;)
I'm not a huge fan o a lot of the monitor audio range ... Some are nice, and I haven't heard bx1's yet ...
If only you were closer ... I could show you a bunch of relevant kit working together ...
I still think you should add usher s520 to that list ... They are lovely speakers!! And in combo with caiman and a modded x10d valve buffer sound absolutely wonderful with a mini t ... ...
The 42's and DM 2/6's have different specs if I recall correctly. Will have another look.
The 520's were on the list until I read the What HiFi review (again, I know) coupled with some user reviews on other non-commercial sites. It seems very mixed. Goodsound praised them though (just found that review), which is making me seriously reconsider.
What's a modded x10d valve buffer? :¬)
Yes it is indeed a shame, as you have a set-up I could easily reproduce! Including the ushers.
Update: Caiman just arrived! :¬)
I have heard both in the same system and there is no contest IMHO, the Gold is a much better amp. Not bass light at all, you just need to use the right speakers i.e. easy to drive. A lot of small speakers are a harder load in the bass frequencies, which may be leading to the bass light claims.
Not to say the mini t is a poor amp, it isn't, it's just I think the Gold is well worth the extra.
Damnit, I was 90% sure then ;¬)
Joking aside, thanks Ali. What set-up did you test them both with?
Jerry - I may take you up on the loan offer in the future if you would be so kind, as the Bantam Gold's are returnable, allowing for some A/B testing :cool:
Goodness. Caiman has given much more depth, energy, tightness and separation to the music (using USB). Is that what you guys call the soundstage? :¬)
It has also highlighted the poor top end/treble of the M-Audio AV40's. Which is bad for my wallet :D
The Vinyl Adventure
27-04-2011, 11:28
Ignor what hifis review of the ushers it's a load of old toss!
kininigin
27-04-2011, 12:15
just to add a bit more confusion on what route to take,have you considered active speakers?
Ignor what hifis review of the ushers it's a load of old toss!
Yeah, they are best taken with a pinch (bucket) of salt. I have to keep myself fro getting sucked into them. Much beter to find personal reviews on forums and enthusiast sites. Here's the other feedback I was mentioning...
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/bookshelf-speakers/usher/s-520/PRD_327530_4290crx.aspx
just to add a bit more confusion on what route to take,have you considered active speakers?
Yes dude, very open to active speakers/monitors. I had my eyes on KRK RP5's for a while. Someone mentioned studio monitors are better for nearfield listening.
The Vinyl Adventure
27-04-2011, 12:52
here you go buddy ... just to throw a massive spanner in your works
sod all this nonsense and stick with your original plan of some active speakers
i have done a bit of mooching on my lunch break in town and found you 2 options
ex dem Adam A5's £400 (were £680)
http://www.mannaudio.com/All-products/Adam-Audio-A5-Active-Monitors/prod_56.html
they can be found that sort of cash all over the shop though as they have been superseded ...
but, even better ...
dynaudio mc15 £500 (were £880)
http://www.mannaudio.com/All-products/Dynaudio-MC-15-Active-Monitors/prod_57.html
http://www.bartlettshifi.co.uk/_prodimages/MC15.jpg
oooooo, aaaaaaa,
id go for the dyns and have it done with ;)
as an aside to all the the dyn dm 2/6 are the ones that superseded, not preceded the a42s
Thank you Hamish, very kind fo you!
Those Dynaudios are very tempting indeed. From what I've digested so far, they are a consistently good performing brand.
Under serious consideration :¬)
The Vinyl Adventure
27-04-2011, 13:07
give him a ring, he might be blagged down! ... you can tell him i sent you ... but dont tell him i said that ;)
The Vinyl Adventure
27-04-2011, 13:14
i nearly bought the mc15's but did this instead
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8377
give him a ring, he might be blagged down! ... you can tell him i sent you ... but dont tell him i said that ;)
Yeah, well worth a pop.
i nearly bought the mc15's but did this instead
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8377
Nice project :¬)
Ali Tait
27-04-2011, 15:23
Damnit, I was 90% sure then ;¬)
Joking aside, thanks Ali. What set-up did you test them both with?
Jerry - I may take you up on the loan offer in the future if you would be so kind, as the Bantam Gold's are returnable, allowing for some A/B testing :cool:
I took most of my system to another member's house. It consists of WAD Pre 2 valve preamp, two Bantam Golds which feed a pair of diy open baffles actively via a Behringer dcx2496. They have a pair of 15" Eminence Alphas and an 8" Visaton B200 full range driver on each channel. Sound very good driven by the Golds, and no lack of bass.
Thanks. Sounds like a nice setup :¬)
Still very tempted by the BG + Arcaydis DM1, along with the Dynaudio MC15's.
Hamish, how musical are the MC15's? Anything to compare them too, performance wise (inc. the 42's)?
Edit: even with my (relatively) cheap monitors, I'm hearing new depth of sounds in some of my fave Dire Straits tracks. Money for nothing especially! This Caiman is already awesome from cold, as such :¬)
The Vinyl Adventure
27-04-2011, 16:17
ive not heard them in context, certainly not in anyway that i could compare them and make any sencible or realistic comments ... other than hearing them is what gave me the idea to dismantle my dyns in the hope i could get something similar!
i have heard them, and some lower range dyn actives (bm5a's or something they were i think) both in hifi shops ... which is never a great indication ... but have always been taken aback by how good they sound for the £££
active speakers just sound more dynamic to me, i think the phrase is "lower noise floor" and we could probably go with "more air around instruments" for luck too and certainly a lot of "effortlessly musical" ... but thats a generalisation on the active speakers i have heard compared to a lot of passive set ups i have heard and by no means should be taken as gospel ... its just my experience so far ... which compared to a lot of people on here is not a great deal ... but most if not all of the opinion on here is likely to differ from yours in the real world anyway ... look how infrequently anyone actually agrees on anything in this place
also look at my title thing under my name ... im bound to harp on about active speakers being amazing ... i spent a fuck load on my active adams and really cant see me going back to any system that uses passive crossovers long term .... ... they are just less to worry about (even my upstairs system, where i do tinker and mess with stuff .... which is soon to have 2 valve beasties, and 3 transistor type amps to choose from is going to be powering single driver corssoverless speakers)
but all this shite is opinion ... and my opinion, for what its worth, is its really not worth listening to anyones opinion ... just listen to the gear and make up your own mind whats right for you!
rant over :)
with that in mind a pair of those dyns sold on ebay used for £470 ... so even if you had to buy them to hear them you probably would loose very much on them ... ... ....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dynaudio-MC15-speakers-/200595378468?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_Mo nitors&hash=item2eb46a9124
just a thought ;)
That makes a big difference actually, thanks (again).
I'm going to call that shop tomorrow and get haggling :¬)
Hi Ross, l was one of Jerrys wingmen on Wigwam, regarding the Mini-T, l use mine on some Harbeth Compact 7ES2 in a small room, and have no issues with bass at all, in fact it is full and round, but the Harbs are pretty easy to drive, the 6-8W the Mini-T produces goes quite a way l can tell you, it is a remarkable sounding little amp (maybe l got lucky with the synergy) the sound is full, dynamic and 3D and very very musical, hope this helps :)- oh nearly forgot mine is a 2A psu.
Hi Ross, l was one of Jerrys wingmen on Wigwam, regarding the Mini-T, l use mine on some Harbeth Compact 7ES2 in a small room, and have no issues with bass at all, in fact it is full and round, but the Harbs are pretty easy to drive, the 6-8W the Mini-T produces goes quite a way l can tell you, it is a remarkable sounding little amp (maybe l got lucky with the synergy) the sound is full, dynamic and 3D and very very musical, hope this helps :)- oh nearly forgot mine is a 2A psu.
Hi Andy. I recognise your nickname from the W thread actually :¬)
Nice speakers! Thanks for the feedback, I think the bass issue is more speaker/matching related. The same goes for the Bantam Gold.
A £60 amp feeding £1500 (at the time) speakers is pretty impressive :¬)
The Vinyl Adventure
27-04-2011, 20:27
I think you can add an extra zero on to that for the speakers jerry uses one with ....
I think you can add an extra zero on to that for the speakers jerry uses one with ....
When writing that reply it popped into mind I thought I could recall something about £15K JBL speakers :¬)
Madness!
If you got a bit of money, get both try them in your system and then keep the ones you like best you not have to much trouble selling them on , you lose a bit of money on the resale but not to much more likely to lose on the Bantams
I had the Mini T in my system lovelly fast amp, brillant with acoustic music but throw something more drum based on it like this http://open.spotify.com/local/John+Zorn/Music+Romance%2c+Vol.+2%3a+Taboo+and+Exile/Koryojang/381 and it would come unstuck I have no idea if the Bantams would have same issue my guess is no and that is with speakers that are quite easy to drive, its my only real critism of the Mini T which for its money is awesome
If you got a bit of money, get both try them in your system and then keep the ones you like best you not have to much trouble selling them on , you lose a bit of money on the resale but not to much more likely to lose on the Bantams
I had the Mini T in my system lovelly fast amp, brillant with acoustic music but throw something more drum based on it like this http://open.spotify.com/local/John+Zorn/Music+Romance%2c+Vol.+2%3a+Taboo+and+Exile/Koryojang/381 and it would come unstuck I have no idea if the Bantams would have same issue my guess is no and that is with speakers that are quite easy to drive, its my only real critism of the Mini T which for its money is awesome
Thanks John. Yes indeed, multiple purchases are an option.
Current thoughts are the Dynaudio MC15's vs Amp + Arcaydis DM1.
Jerry has kindly offered a loan of his Mini-T, and I could purchase the Bantam Gold knowing it can be returned. The same goes for the DM1s.
So many options, so little time...
:¬)
jandl100
28-04-2011, 06:08
When writing that reply it popped into mind I thought I could recall something about £15K JBL speakers :¬)
Madness!
Yep - totally potty! :lol:
... but a damn good sound. I heard amps up to £5.5k rrp that I prefer the Mini-T to.
I've not heard a Bantam Gold, but Hamish was kind enough to loan me his HLLY Tamp-90 .. I think that uses the same chip as the BG ?? .. and the Mini-T was a street or two ahead in terms of what it excels at - openness, speed, presence. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
I'd be happy to loan you my Mini-T for a shootout thru whatever speakers you choose.
And by the way, my speakers are MBL. ;) http://www.mbl-usa.com/View.aspx/2103/mbl-116-Elegance
________
As for active speakers ... I've had some of those (ATC, Wharfedale and B&W) and yes, they are interesting. But I've happily gone back to passives and I miss the actives not one jot (I didn't like the ATC at all, the B&Ws were nice, the Wharfedales were OK but a bit bland).
I'd get a proper dem before committing if t'were me. :)
________
Too many choices !! But you knew that already ... and choosing what is right for you is (or should be) part of the fun.
Yep - totally potty! :lol:
... but a damn good sound. I heard amps up to £5.5k rrp that I prefer the Mini-T to.
I've not heard a Bantam Gold, but Hamish was kind enough to loan me his HLLY Tamp-90 .. I think that uses the same chip as the BG ?? .. and the Mini-T was a street or two ahead in terms of what it excels at - openness, speed, presence. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
I'd be happy to loan you my Mini-T for a shootout thru whatever speakers you choose.
Very kind fo you, really appreciate the offer. Will you not be without your favourite amp though? I would not want to devoid you of your listening pleasure.
And by the way, my speakers are MBL. ;) http://www.mbl-usa.com/View.aspx/2103/mbl-116-Elegance
Blimey! Did you steal and mod the robot from Lost in Space? :¬)
http://www.lz95.net/lzhs/english/isilverman/Lost%20in%20Space%20Robot.jpg
I bet you just opened it up and plonked a Mini-T inside it :eyebrows:
In all seriousness, I bet they sound amazing. Serious craftsmanship.
As for active speakers ... I've had some of those (ATC, Wharfedale and B&W) and yes, they are interesting. But I've happily gone back to passives and I miss the actives not one jot (I didn't like the ATC at all, the B&Ws were nice, the Wharfedales were OK but a bit bland).
I'd get a proper dem before committing if t'were me. :)
Too many choices !! But you knew that already ... and choosing what is right for you is (or should be) part of the fun.
Very true, I do get lost in interwebs research. I'll be taking my time so will try and demo a few different speakers next week.
Very kind fo you, really appreciate the offer. Will you not be without your favourite amp though? I would not want to devoid you of your listening pleasure.
If not, you can borrow mine Ross, as it is only used in a secondary system I wouldn't miss it too much.
You're on the horns of a pleasant dilemma Ross, either way will be a good choice, and value for money...
I've got a Mini-T (5A), a Muse M21 EX, a Bantam Classic, and had a Bantam Gold for a couple of months (now with the inlaws, I was just running it in :)).
In the setups I had them in (secondary) I struggled to notice any major discernible difference between them, they were used between SB receivers and Mission 780SEs. Perhaps because the SB as an analogue source isn't that great, certainly nowhere near a Beresford.
The one thing I will throw into the argument is that with a 60W linear power supply (originally bought for the Muse), both the Mini-T & the Muse out performed the Bantams, for bass and depth.
And I'm sure that if I put a better PSU on the Bantams they'd improve too, but for less than the cost of the Gold you could have the Mini-T and a reasonable linear PSU...just to muddy the waters a little more ;)
Oh and you could buy one for the Beresford too...:)
If not, you can borrow mine Ross, as it is only used in a secondary system I wouldn't miss it too much.
Thank you Alex! Where abouts in Suffolk are you based? I was born in Lowestoft :¬)
You're on the horns of a pleasant dilemma Ross, either way will be a good choice, and value for money...
I've got a Mini-T (5A), a Muse M21 EX, a Bantam Classic, and had a Bantam Gold for a couple of months (now with the inlaws, I was just running it in :)).
In the setups I had them in (secondary) I struggled to notice any major discernible difference between them, they were used between SB receivers and Mission 780SEs. Perhaps because the SB as an analogue source isn't that great, certainly nowhere near a Beresford.
The one thing I will throw into the argument is that with a 60W linear power supply (originally bought for the Muse), both the Mini-T & the Muse out performed the Bantams, for bass and depth.
And I'm sure that if I put a better PSU on the Bantams they'd improve too, but for less than the cost of the Gold you could have the Mini-T and a reasonable linear PSU...just to muddy the waters a little more ;)
Oh and you could buy one for the Beresford too...:)
Thanks for the advice Will, I like the sound of that :¬)
Do you happen to have a model name/link for the 60W linear PSU?
Regarding the Caiman PSU, I had seen this:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/13.8v-regulated-mains-power-units-231?c=54264&u=skim2113x565594xd9b0fae359e1257b6792aa371fd2cb1c&C=54264&U=skim2113X565594X3a5955531dd32f6bff2760259fa80811
Any other recommendations?
Really appreciate everyones help so far, much appreciated :¬) I'm slowly learning!
Hi Ross,
not been on the forum for a wee while, just came across your thread.
Hope your enjoying the Caiman..its a cracker, especially with the Gator.
Be careful though or this forum will eat your wallet :)
Some really worthwhile upgrades to the Caiman, particularly in the power supply department.
Speaking of which, I did buy that Maplins CB radio linear supply you linked to.
This was in fact on Stans direct recommendation.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5893
I'm sure you can do better if you throw a lot of money at it, but this supply is a nice upgrade to the stock one and well worth getting.
I've heard the Mini-T (Jerrys in fact!) and I can say its a cracking lilttle amp. Very open and "direct to the music" kind of sound...no flab.
In your smaller room it will give all the power you need.
I have heard it in comparison though to the Bantam Gold and I think the Bantam is the better amp.
It was my system that Ali T brought his kit over to and in comparison the Gold is better.
I would say though that the Mini-T gets 80% of the way there though and is quite a bit cheaper...so take your choice. :)
Im looking at the amp side of things too, and Im picking up a couple of the Bantam monoblocks to be used with the Caiman as preamp, and this is based on how good I thought the Bantams sounded as well as being a very good VFM option for me.
have fun
gaz.
Thank you Alex! Where abouts in Suffolk are you based? I was born in Lowestoft :¬)
Ipswich - but I spent from age 8 to 36 in Norwich - only moved here 'cos of my now wife. I'd rather still live in Norwich, but much easier from here to travel (I do a lot of trips down south and the Midlands.) I was born in Northampton, but my spiritual home is still the Fine City. :)
Thank you Alex! Where abouts in Suffolk are you based? I was born in Lowestoft :¬)
Thanks for the advice Will, I like the sound of that :¬)
Do you happen to have a model name/link for the 60W linear PSU?
Regarding the Caiman PSU, I had seen this:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/13.8v-regulated-mains-power-units-231?c=54264&u=skim2113x565594xd9b0fae359e1257b6792aa371fd2cb1c&C=54264&U=skim2113X565594X3a5955531dd32f6bff2760259fa80811
Any other recommendations?
Really appreciate everyones help so far, much appreciated :¬) I'm slowly learning!
There was a little bit of a saga regarding my Muse PSU, like anything from China it was a bit of a gamble, the info about it is lower down in this listing for the muse m21 amp, but the link no longer works, perhaps the guy has stopped selling it due to reliability issues :scratch:;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MUSE-M21-EX-TA2021-T-Amp-Mini-Stereo-Amplifier-25WX2-B-/120567506263?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c12622557#ht_4057wt_756
The more electronically minded chaps on here helped me out on this thread;
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8741
It's been repaired and improved, and really does make an improvement to the Mini-T, perhaps one could find an alternative elsewhere.
As for the Beresford, I only have a TC-7510 in my study setup, which is 12V (is the Caiman the same?) and is significantly improved by one of these...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-20w-power-supply-32754
...it's linear, and it's cheap, a lovely combination :)
Hi Ross,
not been on the forum for a wee while, just came across your thread.
Hope your enjoying the Caiman..its a cracker, especially with the Gator.
Be careful though or this forum will eat your wallet :)
Some really worthwhile upgrades to the Caiman, particularly in the power supply department.
Speaking of which, I did buy that Maplins CB radio linear supply you linked to.
This was in fact on Stans direct recommendation.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5893
I'm sure you can do better if you throw a lot of money at it, but this supply is a nice upgrade to the stock one and well worth getting.
I've heard the Mini-T (Jerrys in fact!) and I can say its a cracking lilttle amp. Very open and "direct to the music" kind of sound...no flab.
In your smaller room it will give all the power you need.
I have heard it in comparison though to the Bantam Gold and I think the Bantam is the better amp.
It was my system that Ali T brought his kit over to and in comparison the Gold is better.
I would say though that the Mini-T gets 80% of the way there though and is quite a bit cheaper...so take your choice. :)
Im looking at the amp side of things too, and Im picking up a couple of the Bantam monoblocks to be used with the Caiman as preamp, and this is based on how good I thought the Bantams sounded as well as being a very good VFM option for me.
have fun
gaz.
Hi Gaz, thanks for the info. With two offers to try the Mini-T amps out, it would be silly not to give it a pop first. As you mentioned, it's a small room and I'm listening near field, the bass will most likely not be an issue.
Absolutely, this audio lark is rather addictive. My budget keeps going up, haha!
Ipswich - but I spent from age 8 to 36 in Norwich - only moved here 'cos of my now wife. I'd rather still live in Norwich, but much easier from here to travel (I do a lot of trips down south and the Midlands.) I was born in Northampton, but my spiritual home is still the Fine City. :)
A fine city indeed! I said that last night actually to a couple of clients :¬) Lovely and laid back.
There was a little bit of a saga regarding my Muse PSU, like anything from China it was a bit of a gamble, the info about it is lower down in this listing for the muse m21 amp, but the link no longer works, perhaps the guy has stopped selling it due to reliability issues :scratch:;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MUSE-M21-EX-TA2021-T-Amp-Mini-Stereo-Amplifier-25WX2-B-/120567506263?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c12622557#ht_4057wt_756
The more electronically minded chaps on here helped me out on this thread;
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8741
It's been repaired and improved, and really does make an improvement to the Mini-T, perhaps one could find an alternative elsewhere.
As for the Beresford, I only have a TC-7510 in my study setup, which is 12V (is the Caiman the same?) and is significantly improved by one of these...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-20w-power-supply-32754
...it's linear, and it's cheap, a lovely combination :)
I think I recall reading that the Caiman was 12V also. Thanks for the PSU suggestion, although I now have the added dilemma of deciding between that and Gaz's recommendation. Being a complete novice with electrical DIY, I may opt for your own, ready to go solution :¬)
I think I recall reading that the Caiman was 12V also. Thanks for the PSU suggestion, although I now have the added dilemma of deciding between that and Gaz's recommendation. Being a complete novice with electrical DIY, I may opt for your own, ready to go solution :¬)
There are a lot of people on here with some astonishing electronic and DIY skills, as you may well have noticed I am definitely not one of them. ;)
I can just about solder speaker wires on, but always keep some savlon handy :eek:
I'm sure Gaz's DIY PSU will out perform the stock maplins one, and there are probably other off the shelf options that will do so to.
Budget was a bit more of a criteria in my choice for my study system, hence I picked up an old TC-7510 quite cheaply from Stan, but the maplins PSU I linked to is definitely an big improvement over the stock one on the 7510. :)
There are a lot of people on here with some astonishing electronic and DIY skills, as you may well have noticed I am definitely not one of them. ;)
I can just about solder speaker wires on, but always keep some savlon handy :eek:
I'm sure Gaz's DIY PSU will out perform the stock maplins one, and there are probably other off the shelf options that will do so to.
Budget was a bit more of a criteria in my choice for my study system, hence I picked up an old TC-7510 quite cheaply from Stan, but the maplins PSU I linked to is definitely an big improvement over the stock one on the 7510. :)
Lol! I think the last time I soldered something was about 15 years ago, using my fathers equipment. I have none of my own :¬)
I just remembered, there is a Caiman specific PSU - 15v.
http://www.beresford.me/products/Caiman.html
Don't think it's linear though...
Lol! I think the last time I soldered something was about 15 years ago, using my fathers equipment. I have none of my own :¬)
I just remembered, there is a Caiman specific PSU - 15v.
http://www.beresford.me/products/Caiman.html
Don't think it's linear though...
That's a SMPS 15v upgrade, but even Stan recommends a linear one over that, as for the impact of using a different voltage...err I'd need to get my old physics books out.
There's a whole thread on 'going linear with the caiman', which is much more informative...;)
Ali Tait
28-04-2011, 11:51
Yep - totally potty! :lol:
... but a damn good sound. I heard amps up to £5.5k rrp that I prefer the Mini-T to.
I've not heard a Bantam Gold, but Hamish was kind enough to loan me his HLLY Tamp-90 .. I think that uses the same chip as the BG ?? .. and the Mini-T was a street or two ahead in terms of what it excels at - openness, speed, presence. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
I'd be happy to loan you my Mini-T for a shootout thru whatever speakers you choose.
And by the way, my speakers are MBL. ;) http://www.mbl-usa.com/View.aspx/2103/mbl-116-Elegance
________
As for active speakers ... I've had some of those (ATC, Wharfedale and B&W) and yes, they are interesting. But I've happily gone back to passives and I miss the actives not one jot (I didn't like the ATC at all, the B&Ws were nice, the Wharfedales were OK but a bit bland).
I'd get a proper dem before committing if t'were me. :)
________
Too many choices !! But you knew that already ... and choosing what is right for you is (or should be) part of the fun.
Hi Jerry,
No, it's a different chip used by the Gold, and not a Tripath one. It's a Texas Instruments one I think.
That's a SMPS 15v upgrade, but even Stan recommends a linear one over that, as for the impact of using a different voltage...err I'd need to get my old physics books out.
There's a whole thread on 'going linear with the caiman', which is much more informative...;)
Just been reading that thanks, over my head really :¬)
Excuse my ignorance here; the PSU you linked reads Variable in the description. Is that still Linear, or are V/L mutually exclusive?
Ali Tait
28-04-2011, 11:54
Ross, I forgot to say that both Golds of mine are run from a high quality supply, which makes quite an improvement to the sound from the amps over the stock supply. I also use one on my Squeezebox Touch with similar gains, in fact we tried it on Gary's Touch when I took my gear over, and I think he was quite surprised by how much improvement there was.
Ali Tait
28-04-2011, 11:58
Just been reading that thanks, over my head really :¬)
Excuse my ignorance here; the PSU you linked reads Variable in the description. Is that still Linear, or are V/L mutually exclusive?
No, variable just means the output voltage of the power supply can be adjusted over a certain range. You also can get fixed supplies, which obviously just give you a fixed output voltage. Whether the supply is a Switched Mode or Linear design is irrelevant to this, they could be either.
Ross, I forgot to say that both Golds of mine are run from a high quality supply, which makes quite an improvement to the sound from the amps over the stock supply. I also use one on my Squeezebox Touch with similar gains, in fact we tried it on Gary's Touch when I took my gear over, and I think he was quite surprised by how much improvement there was.
Ah, that makes a difference also. Thanks. That may just lean me towards the Mini-T again. Out of interest - which PSU's?
No, variable just means the output voltage of the power supply can be adjusted over a certain range. You also can get fixed supplies, which obviously just give you a fixed output voltage. Whether the supply is a Switched Mode or Linear design is irrelevant to this, they could be either.
Thanks Ali. People here are fantastically helpful and patient towards the audio-uneducated newcomers such as myself :¬)
Just been reading that thanks, over my head really :¬)
Excuse my ignorance here; the PSU you linked reads Variable in the description. Is that still Linear, or are V/L mutually exclusive?
No variable and linear are not mutually exclusive...
They do a more expensive variable SMPS @ 60W, the one I linked to is a 20W linear...although there's a new version (the one on the website), with different voltages, I have 3 of the originals powering my Beresford and 2 SB receivers.
As I said there are probably better alternatives, but I've not seen any better value ones...:)
Thanks Ali. People here are fantastically helpful and patient towards the audio-uneducated newcomers such as myself :¬)
When I joined at the end of last year I'd have scoffed at anyone suggesting that a mere PSU would be significant upgrade...you live and learn ;)
There are a lot of people on here with some astonishing electronic and DIY skills, as you may well have noticed I am definitely not one of them. ;)
I can just about solder speaker wires on, but always keep some savlon handy :eek:
I'm sure Gaz's DIY PSU will out perform the stock maplins one, and there are probably other off the shelf options that will do so to.
. :)
Bit of Cross Porpoises here Will..
No homebrew PSU for me, being an equally numpty-level DIYer ;) I just went with Stan B's original recommendation for his Dac as shown here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5893
http://www.maplin.co.uk/13.8v-regulated-mains-power-units-231?c=54264&u=skim2113x565594xd9b0fae359e1257b6792aa371fd2cb1c&C=54264&U=skim2113X565594X3a5955531dd32f6bff2760259fa80811
:)
No variable and linear are not mutually exclusive...
They do a more expensive variable SMPS @ 60W, the one I linked to is a 20W linear...although there's a new version (the one on the website), with different voltages, I have 3 of the originals powering my Beresford and 2 SB receivers.
As I said there are probably better alternatives, but I've not seen any better value ones...:)
Thanks Will :¬)
Bit of Cross Porpoises here Will..
No homebrew PSU for me, being an equally numpty-level DIYer ;) I just went with Stan B's original recommendation for his Dac as shown here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5893
http://www.maplin.co.uk/13.8v-regulated-mains-power-units-231?c=54264&u=skim2113x565594xd9b0fae359e1257b6792aa371fd2cb1c&C=54264&U=skim2113X565594X3a5955531dd32f6bff2760259fa80811
:)
That's still quite DIY for me, as it doesn't have a plug that's ready to connect! :mental:
Of course, I understand it's easy when you know how :¬)
14 x 14cm, might be a bit of a squeeze.
Bit of Cross Porpoises here Will..
No homebrew PSU for me, being an equally numpty-level DIYer ;) I just went with Stan B's original recommendation for his Dac as shown here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5893
http://www.maplin.co.uk/13.8v-regulated-mains-power-units-231?c=54264&u=skim2113x565594xd9b0fae359e1257b6792aa371fd2cb1c&C=54264&U=skim2113X565594X3a5955531dd32f6bff2760259fa80811
:)
Ah sorry Gaz, you're a finger burner like me...;)
Just noticed something in that thread Gaz...
The bad news is that the Caiman power supply produced better results than the modded CB radio PSU when tried on an unmodified TC-7520 and Caiman.
The good news is that the modded CB radio PSU comes into its own with a Caiman fitted with the Murata regulators.
I have no idea if my Caiman has those. It's this one (http://www.beresford.me/products/Caiman.html), with the Gator mod. I assume not?
Hey Ross,
no...the Standard Caiman doesn't come with the Mutara regulators, so not sure if the Maplin Linear would reap the benefits it might do.
I'd go with the standard PSU and enjoy the music, dont get pulled into the trap of thinking yours is always 2nd best unless you buy x,y or z. :)
Beresford suggests that the standard Caiman wont benefit...so I'd put that out of your mind.
Enough of us old guys on here with audiophile OCD without another one!
Seriously though, Caiman and Gator board will take a lot of beating, dont get too hung up on incremental upgrades.
Besides...according to some it'll take 200hrs or so to burn in properly! ;)
Hey Ross,
no...the Standard Caiman doesn't come with the Mutara regulators, so not sure if the Maplin Linear would reap the benefits it might do.
I'd go with the standard PSU and enjoy the music, dont get pulled into the trap of thinking yours is always 2nd best unless you buy x,y or z. :)
Beresford suggests that the standard Caiman wont benefit...so I'd put that out of your mind.
Enough of us old guys on here with audiophile OCD without another one!
Seriously though, Caiman and Gator board will take a lot of beating, dont get too hung up on incremental upgrades.
Besides...according to some it'll take 200hrs or so to burn in properly! ;)
That sounds like sound advice to me, thanks Gaz. PSU is on the back-shelf :¬)
kininigin
28-04-2011, 16:02
Deffinately get to know your dac first before doing any mods and when/if you do do any mods not to many at once so you can here what mods has what effect.
When i got my dac a couple of years ago,everone was changing this and that every 5 mins lol.When i changed an op amp i would leave it in for a good few weeks so i could evaluate it over a wide spread of listening conditions,quality,volume ect.
Caiman Gator with standard PSU is as good as a decent £1Kish CD player, just not as expansive (or expensive :)) as a full blown superfi player costing several thousands of pounds (in an equally expensive case)..
I've said it before, but well worth repeating.. next thing is to compare one with my old and surprisingly good Digit/Positron :)
Yeah will do Daz, thanks. Only had the Caiman 2 days, she's far from being burned in! :¬)
Caiman Gator with standard PSU is as good as a decent £1Kish CD player, just not as expansive (or expensive :)) as a full blown superfi player costing several thousands of pounds (in an equally expensive case)..
I've said it before, but well worth repeating.. next thing is to compare one with my old and surprisingly good Digit/Positron :)
AVI Positron speakers?
Reid Malenfant
28-04-2011, 16:39
No, QED Digit DAC & Positron PSU ;)
No, QED Digit DAC & Positron PSU ;)
Way off, cheers :¬)
I had early Positron speakers and updated the crossover in the first round of mods. They were good, but I'd come straight from some big LOUD ATC active 100's and was rather disappointed with their lack of power handling before the bass unit hit bottom.. Things have changed now though :lol:
The Digit/Positron was bought from a kind soul here at a very favourable price and I was genuinely surprised how capable it turned out to be. When I have spare dosh, I'll try to get a second positron and do the twin-supply conversion (there was one for sale not so long ago but the seller wanted too much for it).
jandl100
30-04-2011, 07:56
Very kind fo you, really appreciate the offer. Will you not be without your favourite amp though? I would not want to devoid you of your listening pleasure.
No - my Mini-T is 'resting'.
As many folks here will know I am an OCD boxswapper :mental: - I'm on my 27th amp since the Mini-T was my primary watt supplier. OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration ... but not by much! :eyebrows:
I can send you off the Mini-T to play with whenever you wish. :)
No - my Mini-T is 'resting'.
As many folks here will know I am an OCD boxswapper :mental: - I'm on my 27th amp since the Mini-T was my primary watt supplier. OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration ... but not by much! :eyebrows:
I can send you off the Mini-T to play with whenever you wish. :)
Thank you Jerry. Depending on whether I opt for MC15's or Focus CM50's, I may be in touch :¬)
here you go buddy ... just to throw a massive spanner in your works
sod all this nonsense and stick with your original plan of some active speakers
i have done a bit of mooching on my lunch break in town and found you 2 options
ex dem Adam A5's £400 (were £680)
http://www.mannaudio.com/All-products/Adam-Audio-A5-Active-Monitors/prod_56.html
they can be found that sort of cash all over the shop though as they have been superseded ...
but, even better ...
dynaudio mc15 £500 (were £880)
http://www.mannaudio.com/All-products/Dynaudio-MC-15-Active-Monitors/prod_57.html
http://www.bartlettshifi.co.uk/_prodimages/MC15.jpg
oooooo, aaaaaaa,
id go for the dyns and have it done with ;)
as an aside to all the the dyn dm 2/6 are the ones that superseded, not preceded the a42s
Bought the Dyns Hamish - Phil asked if I knew you :¬)
Thanks for advice, and for finding them, great deal (got them cheaper too).
Can't wait to pair them with Caiman!
Nice one Ross. I wonder how much collectively new members of this forum have ended up spending after they join... :lol:
The Vinyl Adventure
04-05-2011, 14:54
Bought the Dyns Hamish - Phil asked if I knew you :¬)
Thanks for advice, and for finding them, great deal (got them cheaper too).
Can't wait to pair them with Caiman!
ah, good work!
no probs, happy to help! ... slightly envious i have to say, i spent a good bit of time mulling over buying them ... especially at the price!
hope you like em now!
keep us posted :)
Nice one Ross. I wonder how much collectively new members of this forum have ended up spending after they join... :lol:
Haha yeah, the budget shot up quite quickly too :¬)
ah, good work!
no probs, happy to help! ... slightly envious i have to say, i spent a good bit of time mulling over buying them ... especially at the price!
hope you like em now!
keep us posted :)
Try and stop me ;¬)
allsorts
25-07-2011, 00:48
Talking of spending more money, :rolleyes: My Bantam Gold arrives soon and I am thinking about getting some efficient bookshelf speakers such as Monitor Audio BX2. I liked their sound when I listened at a mates place. Would they be efficient enough and a good match for use in a small (12X15') living room playing jazz and chamber music?
allsorts
25-07-2011, 04:53
Wow. Bantam arrived (OZ)today in 7 days from UK. I knew it was small at one level, but to see it with the ipod touch sitting on top of one half of it is amazing. Nice sound straight from the unpacking and lots of output with the extra gain on. Will run it for a few days and give it a session with the macmini/caiman. Plenty of volume coming out of the Richter Merlins (87db) though, so I may not need the Monitor Audio BX2s.
Patrick Nash
26-07-2011, 08:53
I've just had a Topping TP30 delivered today - another variation of the T amp, but with USB i/p and DAC as well as the usual single ended i/p. Just hooked it up to my charity shop Kef Chorale IIIs and it copes very well with them.
Not surprisingly a big improvement over the tiny internal speakers in an old laptop.
roomania
19-04-2012, 05:24
Is it true that forums develop a preference, or fan base for certain products?
There seem to be lots of Caiman fans here. I had a Caiman after a Consonance Droplet 5 CD player. At less than a tenth of the price of the Droplet, it offered more detail, but a less 'organic'/'realistic' overall portrayal. Excellent job at the price point.
Next up was an AudioGD NFB3, marginally higher list price than Caiman, about 4 times the size and a much better sound. More detail again, delivered in a more lifelike way. This I think, is one of the great bargains of our times.
And there I would have stayed, except last Xmas with too much time to burn, spotted a nearly new Ayon CD1sc on Audiogon at a killer price. I was even driving to the city where it was located, so audition and no freight.
The AudioGD is over engineered, but the Ayon makes it look like a tin can. Just freakin' beautiful in every way. The point here is that whilst the differences get more and more subtle at one level, as you chase after better sound, at another they are still profound.
The Ayon offers the same fundamental experience as the Droplet - it's like listening to live musicians, but the Ayon is more real again. It's most noticeable in that I've gone back to listening to CDs and now tend to listen to a CD several times in a row, rather than listening to lots of different tracks via the Squeezebox.
So s/h the Ayon was about 7 times what I paid for the Caiman, new would be double that, but for me it's worth every $, because the music is real, the performers are there in the room.
Anyway, maybe the next step is a pair of Bantam monoblocks, since the Ayon has remote volume and they are supposed to work well with a valve output stage. Anybody got a pair of those they can comment on?
Hi Chris,
Welcome to AoS :)
May I direct you to this thread and the information therein:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17333
See you in the Welcome section! :cool:
Marco.
P.S We also need your proper geographical location (city or town & country), as "Hifiland" won't do ;)
StanleyB
19-04-2012, 06:55
Is it true that forums develop a preference, or fan base for certain products?
There seem to be lots of Caiman fans here.
I can't speak for other forums, but in the case of AoS it was in many cases me who asked buyers of the Caiman to join the AoS community.
In other words: many Caiman owners first bought the DAC and then got directed to AoS by me. Some buyers had questions for me about speakers, amps, interconnects etc.There aren't many forums on the net where you can get honest advise on a wide range of subjects, without being surrounded by advertising links from forum sponsors. And long may that continue :).
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