Speaker Choice.......

[Elvis's last movement]

My Quad ESL989s must go.....my wife wants to open the window and the speaker is in the way so these are now placed in a corner of the room.

So far I have tried Townsend Glastonburys (bought off here), they are still connected. These sound OK with more bass than the Quads but with a lot less detail in my humble opinion.

I have a pair of Celestion Ditton 33s unopened in the other room and I have yet to try them. I have also heard about Celestion Ditton 66s. How different a beast are these when compared to the Celestion 33s.

Also on Ebay are a pair of Kef Cantatas....my first hifi speakers were Kef Corellis, a smallish bookshelf speaker and the Cantatas were top of the range. Anyone have any opinion on these? Are these worth a listen/purchase or are they best avoided?

I also have a pair of Kef Reference IIs. (also in the same room as the Quads, Glastonburys and pair of Ruark Templars (its crowded, I know)). How would the Kef Cantatas compare to Kef Reference IIs.

Does anyone have a view on how the Kef Reference II speakers compare to Kef Reference IVs? These Kef Reference IVs would have a very high wife acceptance factor if they were the Rosetta Burr ones. My wife won't allow me to sell the Kef Reference IIs.

I am sorry to ask so many questions but I would value any opinions you have?

I an keeping the EAR 509s amplifiers coz I loves them. I have a Linn Sondek in another room and I might get that going with my collection of MFSL records...I have never played the Vinyl Beatles Double White I bought.

Thanks, you've been a great audience and I mean that sincerely. Elvis.

[Elvis's last movement]

....there is a very similar questions on here asked yesterday to the ones I just asked ....right down to a set of responses naming Kef Corellis.

Oh my!

[DSJR]

Look at the Ref 3's on fleabay I pointed to in the "bargains" thread..

Kef went all commercial with the C series and i'm not sure about the Cantata, although they did a (sort of) replacement to the once popular Concerto with the B139 vertical and the Cantata could be the one (so long ago). I'm a huge fan of the 104ab (MUST be the ab version) and a clean pair of these with replacement foam grilles (you may have to buy some foam and cut it yourself though) should sound really good on modern sources. The Corelli's apparently were the 104ab crossover and drivers in a smaller box...

B&W CDM7's? (was there a CDM9? I can't remember)

Spendor S8 (either version)

The 509's will drive almost anything, so don't you dare sell these :)

[Elvis's last movement]

Look at the Ref 3's on fleabay I pointed to in the "bargains" thread..

Kef went all commercial with the C series and i'm not sure about the Cantata, although they did a (sort of) replacement to the once popular Concerto with the B139 vertical and the Cantata could be the one (so long ago). I'm a huge fan of the 104ab (MUST be the ab version) and a clean pair of these with replacement foam grilles (you may have to buy some foam and cut it yourself though) should sound really good on modern sources. The Corelli's apparently were the 104ab crossover and drivers in a smaller box...

B&W CDM7's? (was there a CDM9? I can't remember)

Spendor S8 (either version)

The 509's will drive almost anything, so don't you dare sell these :)

Thanks for the reply and no I won't be selling my Ear amplifiers...I might be parting with my World Audio Amplifier once I find the documentation and a Trio/Kenwood KA907 amplifier.

.....another reply mentioned Chartwell PM400. I had not realised that these speakers existed but I have a pair of Chartwell PM100s and they are excellent so I am interested in these.

I guess I am going to have to try (buy) loads of speakers until I find what I am looking for.

Any info on the Kef questions I asked would be appreciated. Nice Wooden Kefs would have a high wife acceptance, this is important to me....I love my house too much to argue about this. The Cantatas look nice.

[jantheman]

Well...I would say take a look at the Tannoy Prestige range.
http://www.tannoy.com/ResidentialSummary.aspx
But I would say that, wouldnt I.........

[Reid Malenfant]

Well...I would say take a look at the Tannoy Prestige range.
http://www.tannoy.com/ResidentialSummary.aspx
But I would say that, wouldnt I.........
:lol: Just like i'd say Yamaha NS-1000M ;) They'd be superb driven by the 509 :)

[Rare Bird]

I have a pair of Celestion Ditton 33s unopened in the other room and I have yet to try them. I have also heard about Celestion Ditton 66s. How different a beast are these when compared to the Celestion 33s.



The '33' are my Fav out of the lot of em, i even prefer them to the '66', regardless of the '33' 10'' bass compared to the '66', 12'' Bass + ABR

If you don't like em tho i'm yer man :eyebrows:

[Elvis's last movement]

The '33' are my Fav out of the lot of em, i even prefer them to the '66', regardless of the '33' 10'' bass compared to the '66', 12'' Bass + ABR

If you don't like em tho i'm yer man :eyebrows:

Thanks Andre, these Dittons were a bit of an inpulse purchase, tat might turn out to be inspired.

Itried to find out what an ABR actually did and how it works but I confess to not really understanding it.

[Alex_UK]

I tried to find out what an ABR actually did and how it works but I confess to not really understanding it.

This might help?

http://www.loudspeakerdesign.co.uk/bass_reflex.php

[Rare Bird]

I tried to find out what an ABR actually did and how it works but I confess to not really understanding it.

To cut a long story short a ABR basically carries off in a simular way to a Reflex port but without the issues

[Marco]

my wife wants to open the window and the speaker is in the way, so these are now placed in a corner of the room...


I presume that she asked if you were happy with this arrangement first? ;)

Marco.

[Tarzan]

Have you considered Harbeths?

[MCRU]

why are you buying speakers just to try them? is that not what a dealer is for?

I am looking for some new speakers, selling any?

ta

[jandl100]

why are you buying speakers just to try them? is that not what a dealer is for?


Well, a dealer is only for that if you think you might buy from them at whatever (presumambly near RRP) price they are asking.

Too many folks abuse a dealer's hospitality (and time/money) for 'free dems' then buy on t'internet or 2nd hand, imo.

I (used to) buy speakers just to try them - pay a sensible used price and you can move them on for similar. :)

[jandl100]

Replacing big Quad stats ... hmm, tricky.

What sort of sound are you looking for? The same sort of sound but in a more domestically sensible form? Or a bit of a sonic change? ... if so, in what way?

If you want Quad sound in a box, then Harbeths are a good option, imo.

[Elvis's last movement]

why are you buying speakers just to try them? is that not what a dealer is for?

I am looking for some new speakers, selling any?

ta

I will be selling my Quad esl 989s as soon as I have time to take photos etc.
Also the Townsend Glastonburys.

I am asking the questions here because I suspect that older speakers might be better than new ones, certainly cheaper than new.

To be honest, my knowledge of hi fi is limited and I moved on from hi fi and beer to women (and beer) then fatherhood, then divorce, remarriage and work going on in the background.....yawn. Probably like others here!!!!!

Any advice/observations offered is welcome

[Elvis's last movement]

I have been read reviews and one caught my eye

My own experience with mini-monitors has been long and intensely musically rewarding. For the first 15 years of my audio life (from 1972 to 1987) I did not have a room big enough to allow large speakers to perform correctly and I quickly sussed out that most of my customers (I was then involved in retail audio) were in the same boat. The LS3/5A was an epiphany and the speakers that I owned and/or sold in its wake: the Jim Rogers JR 149, the Visonik David 50, Braun Output C, KEF 101, Infinity Infinitesimal 0.1, Audio Physic Step, et. al., all confirmed that penetrating insight first grasped when listening to the LS3/5A. To guarantee getting maximum musical communication in the average smaller room, a mini-monitor is the most practical way to go.

Err what is an average sized room? My listening room is 20 feet by 15 feet. is this deemed average or large ( I wouls assume that its large especially as it has a vaulted ceiling.) Would a monitor do well in it? I like my music loud......this is the trouble when the majority of my hi fi life has been spent listend to stacked Quad ESL57s and Quad ESL989s.

[Reid Malenfant]

I'd call that a large room, it's a good bit bigger than mine & i'd call mine average ;) If you like things loud then you'll need bigger speakers than those mentioned such as LS3/5A, frankly i think they'd be lost in a room that size :eyebrows:

[Macca]

I have been read reviews and one caught my eye

My own experience with mini-monitors has been long and intensely musically rewarding. For the first 15 years of my audio life (from 1972 to 1987) I did not have a room big enough to allow large speakers to perform correctly and I quickly sussed out that most of my customers (I was then involved in retail audio) were in the same boat. The LS3/5A was an epiphany and the speakers that I owned and/or sold in its wake: the Jim Rogers JR 149, the Visonik David 50, Braun Output C, KEF 101, Infinity Infinitesimal 0.1, Audio Physic Step, et. al., all confirmed that penetrating insight first grasped when listening to the LS3/5A. To guarantee getting maximum musical communication in the average smaller room, a mini-monitor is the most practical way to go.

Err what is an average sized room? My listening room is 20 feet by 15 feet. is this deemed average or large ( I wouls assume that its large especially as it has a vaulted ceiling.) Would a monitor do well in it? I like my music loud......this is the trouble when the majority of my hi fi life has been spent listend to stacked Quad ESL57s and Quad ESL989s.

My understanding from the literature is that you need at least one dimension of the room to be greater than 25' in order to resolve the lowest bass notes correctly.

I would suggest an average room would be around 16' x 12' (in the UK) i.e the size of the living room in a typical 1930's to 1960's semi-detached. Of course this would just be broom cupboard for some of the Yanks and Aussies, I guess:)

[Reid Malenfant]

My understanding from the literature is that you need at least one dimension of the room to be greater than 25' in order to resolve the lowest bass notes correctly.
If that's the case then he has that 25ft :) Corner to corner diagonally ;)

Im not sure i actually take what people say as gospel though, it simply means than it'd be impossible to generate standing waves below the longest room dimension. I mean if you stick your head inside a speaker enclosure you aren't going to tell me you won't hear bass below 250Hz (given a 2ft internal dimension) now are you :lol:

[Macca]

If that's the case then he has that 25ft :) Corner to corner diagonally ;)

Im not sure i actually take what people say as gospel though, it simply means than it'd be impossible to generate standing waves below the longest room dimension. I mean if you stick your head inside a speaker enclosure you aren't going to tell me you won't hear bass below 250Hz (given a 2ft internal dimension) now are you :lol:

Good point about the diagonal - as far as standing waves go my understanding is that the limiter is the distance travelled before meeting a solid boundary that will cause reflection and cancellation - 250hz is not deep bass - what is bottom E on a bass guitar? 40 or 45 Hz I think, so deep bass would be say 20Hz or lower - notes you can feel as much as hear.

[Elvis's last movement]

If that's the case then he has that 25ft :) Corner to corner diagonally ;)

Im not sure i actually take what people say as gospel though, it simply means than it'd be impossible to generate standing waves below the longest room dimension. I mean if you stick your head inside a speaker enclosure you aren't going to tell me you won't hear bass below 250Hz (given a 2ft internal dimension) now are you :lol:

Your comment about sticking my head inside an enclosure made me laugh...:lol:

[Macca]

Your comment about sticking my head inside an enclosure made me laugh...:lol:

:lol: my head is always stuck somewhere I think...

[Reid Malenfant]

Yep, i'm in agreement Martin. However what i'm attempting to get accross is that you can still reproduce deeper bass than the longest room dimension would suggest you can ;) It's just that you'll get no standing waves whilst doing it because the note will be too deep & the wavelength too long, it simply gets cleaner as a result :cool:

My room gets a bit muddled at around 40Hz due to the room dimensions, yet i get lots of nice clean bass down to below 20Hz even though the room dimensions say this shouldn't happen :scratch:

[Macca]

As you say you could put the speaker in a 4'by 4' closet and still hear deep bass notes so maybe it is that you need 25'+ to avoid doubling and cancellation at some frequncies rather than to actually get some reproduction of deep bass. So it is a necessary parameter to get an even, clean bass response at all bass frequencies from a speaker that is capable of very low bass reproduction?

I'm out of my depth here...:)

[Reid Malenfant]

I must apologise to Lance for the thread drift :doh:

I think what happens is that while the wavelength may well be too big to fit in the room there is something else that needs to be taken into account - pressure!

My guess is that if you took a hypothetical speaker outside & placed it against a wall & had another wall 6ft away (speaker between the two) & you fed the speaker 20Hz with you opposite the speaker you'd probably hear nothing as the changes in air pressure would escape into the whole atmosphere. Move far enough away & you'd hear it due to the wavelength being so long. But if you enclose the thing in a 6 x 6 x 6ft box & play that 20Hz with you in the same position you'd certainly hear it then. Entirely due to the increased & decreased atmospheric pressure that the speaker would generate in the room :)

I actually prefer a small room because as i mentioned earlier, below the frequency that the longest wavelength can fit into the room there can be no standing waves so the bass gets cleaner below that frequency.

[Elvis's last movement]

I must apologise to Lance for the thread drift :doh:

I think what happens is that while the wavelength may well be too big to fit in the room there is something else that needs to be taken into account - pressure!

My guess is that if you took a hypothetical speaker outside & placed it against a wall & had another wall 6ft away (speaker between the two) & you fed the speaker 20Hz with you opposite the speaker you'd probably hear nothing as the changes in air pressure would escape into the whole atmosphere. Move far enough away & you'd hear it due to the wavelength being so long. But if you enclose the thing in a 6 x 6 x 6ft box & play that 20Hz with you in the same position you'd certainly hear it then. Entirely due to the increased & decreased atmospheric pressure that the speaker would generate in the room :)

I actually prefer a small room because as i mentioned earlier, below the frequency that the longest wavelength can fit into the room there can be no standing waves so the bass gets cleaner below that frequency.

Blimey there's no need to apologise!!I am grateful for the advice and guidance offered.

[Macca]

Well it sort of relevant to Lance as he was asking about room size and how that should affect his choice of new speakers.

Theory is all very well, but if I were to move my Celestions a couple of doors down to my neighbours house and set them up in his living room (11' by 12') I'm pretty sure they would sound boomy, congested and generally awful at anything above quiet volume levels asuming the programme material had some deep bass, that is.

I have some rock recordings where you can actually hear (edit: and feel) deep bass reverb energizing the room (The Cults eponymous album being a good example, also Marillion's Clutching At Straws), an effect I love:eyebrows: - I don't think I would hear this at all in a smaller room either that or it would just be overpowering and boomy.

[Reid Malenfant]

Things would get congested at around the longest wavelength that could fit in the room, below that frequency there couldn't be any standing waves so it'd get cleaner. If you think about it it's going to be more difficult to deal with standing waves of a lower frequency simply because more absorbtion is needed to deal with it than a higher frequency ;)

[Jonboy]

My room is about the same size as yours with a vaulted ceiling and i can recomend Tannoy Prestige series, i have had ESL 57's and 63's in it as well, all sounded good but i might also be biased towards the Tannoys ;)

[Elvis's last movement]

My room is about the same size as yours with a vaulted ceiling and i can recomend Tannoy Prestige series, i have had ESL 57's and 63's in it as well, all sounded good but i might also be biased towards the Tannoys ;)

By coincidence, I was at school with the grandson of Guy Fountain. I recall my old mucker telling me about his grandad and Tannoy. I drove past my old mucker's family home the other week and saw that it had been bulldozed, I dare say there will be a block of flats in its place.

I have only briefly heard Tannoy speakers and they sounded good. I am not going to buy loads of speakers, but I will take my time and try and find some to listen to in advance of purchase