Where to get a Stylus??

[Jac Hawk]

Hi chaps, i'm needing a little help please. As some of you know i've gotten back into vinyl, thanks in no small way to Dave Brook, anyway i've bought a couple of Cartridges an Audio Technica AT110 & an ARCAM C77, both secondhand, and after giving them both a listen, i find surprisingly that i like the sound of the ARCAM slightly more than the AT110, so i've been looking for new styli for the ARCAM with absolutly no joy, has anyone got any ideas??:scratch:

[The Grand Wazoo]

You're going back a bit with these. There were three models in the range & you could upgrade through them by changing the stylus, as the body & motor were supposedly identical.
I don't know where you can get one from, but I offer the above info in case you see a (superior) P77 stylus (for eg) & think it's no good

[Jac Hawk]

Cheers Chris, it's a bit tricky as ARCAM didn't actually make the cartridges themselves, apparently they are rebadged Garrott Brothers Carts, I'd hate to have to chuck it when the stylus is done cos it has a nice sound.

[hifi_dave]

Arcam and several other companies used the same body and stylus assemblies. Rega, FR and Supex also used the same body. They were Japanese but I'm not certain of the company.

There was a Garrott version but at a very inflated price, certainly not the standard jobbie. The usual models were C77, E77 and P77, all characterised by a relaxed, easy going presentation with greater detail as you went up through the range.

Production ceased approx 1985.

Sumiko still produce a very similar cartridge with various styli starting at £40 for a conical, so it's not worth paying more than this for a replacement stylus.

[DSJR]

There's a P77 and a GARROTT P77, and I understand the two are not necessarily compatible.

I have the same dilemma, as I have a C77 and a P77MG with dented cantilver. The C77 is dull as ditchwater and always was, so be warned about neutrality here. The P77 had a suckout making cymbalwork a bit dull, followed by the old-fashioned "mm peak" in the tinsel region of the frequency range ;) The Rega R100 was related too and I think the cheaper Sumiko's may share similar ancestry (they certainly do in sound........)

The best place to try if the cantilevers are ok is Expert styli, who I understand actually made at least some of the PN7 styli for Arcam at the time. I don't think they charge hundreds for this service either if 'just' a diamond transplant is needed. The same with good old Shures, where the rubber suspension and cantilever are sound but the diamond is knackered (M75-ED/EJ and V15's).

Good luck. I'll be following with interest.

P.S. The best A&R overall was the middle "E77."

[prestonchipfryer]

There was a Stilton body to be had in the 80s for the AR P77. My father had one but it long gone now. This is on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/A-R-Cambridge-C77-Cartridge-P77-Stylus-/260763272583?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item3cb6b3c587

[hifi_dave]

It's really not worth spending much on these. As Dave said, the E77 was the best of a very lack lustre bunch and we used to sell all manner of other cartridges which were a lot better. An old AT95E has a lot more get up and go, for instance,

[DSJR]

Forget all those old Goldrings (:ner:), an AT95E is where it's at (or a well priced AT110e if you can find one) :) Styli are cheap too and I believe ther's a Shibata 95 stylus available too.

[Rare Bird]

Mike get yourself a Nag MP11

[keiths]

Mike get yourself a Nag MP11

Seconded - lovely cartridge.

[Reid Malenfant]

Seconded - lovely cartridge.
Thirded :eyebrows: Better off with the Boron ;)

[Jac Hawk]

ok i get it!! i'll start looking for a nag mp11, hold on they don't make um anymore what about the mp110?

[Rare Bird]

ok i get it!! i'll start looking for a nag mp11, hold on they don't make um anymore what about the mp110?

Tons of 'MP11' turn up on auction you can fit a NOS styli which also turn up.. 'MP11' Boron body would be great as Mark says with 'MP20' styli! just to save you money but yeh buy a new one if you want..

[DSJR]

Why make life difficult with long obsolete tat. Just get a new MP110 or AT120E - loads of sources and prices for the AT certainly... :)

What HiFi liked the MP11, or was that Chris Frankland?

[Alex_UK]

I'd agree - the 2nd hand Planar 3 I bought last year came with a P77 with a buggered stylus - I spent ages trying to find one, and no-one makes them, so you're left to the mercy of ebay pretty much. (Only ever done 50 hours, honest guv!)

If you don't like the AT110, then a Nagaoka would be a fine choice for the SL-1800 I think. :)

[DSJR]

Stick it in a Sumiko shell though, the mid-70's Techie original looks cool but sounds a bit sludgy. Even the "current" Techie headshell with Sumiko wires would be better for a good mm such as this...

[Jac Hawk]

obsolete tat! you having a laugh Dave? large percentage of the members on here use obsolete tat, best we bin the lot then eh ;)

Well your stuff might be obsolete tat:lolsign:, i like to think of my stuff as classic, from a time when quality was a given, and "made in china" hadn't happened.

[Rare Bird]

Well your stuff might be obsolete tat:lolsign:, i like to think of my stuff as classic, from a time when quality was a given, and "made in china" hadn't happened.

Well i scrapped that post in fear of touchiness on the horizon, but u caught it :lolsign: your right Mike, out of all the Tat i've had through the years i'm presently in love with my Tat Amp & Tat Speakers like i've never been with anything else before, i can't see myself ever getting shut of them now.

[WOStantonCS100]

If you really like and want to keep the sound of the ARCAM, and a high quality stylus replacement is not available, I'd check out Expert Stylus (UK) or SoundSmith (US), if the cantilever needs replacing also. Just don't throw the old one out. Not sure if that's been mentioned, already.

[hifi_dave]

It's a cheap as chips cartridge, somewhere around £20 when new. The body is not a precision device by any means, so why spend hundreds of Pounds on getting it re-built. There are far better cartridges, new and used for a fraction of the cost.

As I said previously, Sumiko do equivalents nowadays, starting at £40, so it's worth considerably less than that.

[DSJR]

If you really must, I understand EsCo would charge less than a hundred quid to re-tip a sound assembly and possibly more if a cantilever graft is required.

If I refer to obsolete tat, it's because ALL of my stuff is thus. The newest part of my stereos is the X10-D and AVI preamp I think, and they're from the mid nineties. All the main gear is at least twenty years old and nearer forty now for most of it...

[WOStantonCS100]

It's a cheap as chips cartridge, somewhere around £20 when new. The body is not a precision device by any means, so why spend hundreds of Pounds on getting it re-built. There are far better cartridges, new and used for a fraction of the cost.

As I said previously, Sumiko do equivalents nowadays, starting at £40, so it's worth considerably less than that.

Why fix up an old Garrard 301, Technics SL-1200MK2 or Lenco GL75 when you can get a new Project Debut III, or whatever? ;) Some attest that they are far better and can be had new or used for a fraction of the cost.

[hifi_dave]

Because the 301, 1210 and GL75 are quality built turntables of real worth, capable of being brought up to the highest standards for very little outlay. Once serviced they will go on for many decades.

The old A&R cartridges, on the other hand, are cheap, generic cartridges of little worth. If you can pick one up for a few Pounds, then there is little lost but to spend serious money on re-tipping is a nonsense, especially as the stylus assembly is well past it's sell by date.

Pretty well the same cartridge is available from Sumiko for £40 - new and guaranteed.

[DSJR]

To get Garrard 301's, SL1200mk2's and GL75's up to anywhere near a "top end" standard involves many hundreds of quid - yep, even the GL75's, many/most of which are rusty, have knackered arms (which are far better once sorted than many would believe), with worn oil-less bearings and the external wiring and the original plinths aren't really good enough either. I have an acquaintance who's bought nigh on a dozen GL75's and 78's recently (don't ask) and all but one have been pretty knackered as supplied, and one or two of these have been very expensive indeed. All fixable though to be fair.

So, a £100-£200 bargain becomes several hundred quid at least after remedial fettling in many/most cases. A humble Rega RP1 or Pro-ject Debut III can start to look a lot better value when viewed this way. They'll have a warranty and perform properly straight out of the box.

Just an alternative view, but one that needs to be expressed with respect to you all.

[hifi_dave]

That's not really the point.

Take a 301, 1210 or GL75. Service, mod and fettle it and you have a very high quality turntable which will outlive you. Now, you wouldn't suggest doing the same with an old Connoisseur, Dual 505 or ancient Project because the build quality of these turntables just isn't worth the outlay.

Same applies to an old A&R cartridge. It was a cheap body and stylus assembly, used in various configurations by several companies back in the day and sold as 'budget' cartridges. There are no quality bits or build as say a Supex, FR, Koetsu, Kiseki, Dynavector etc and to spend a hundred or more Pounds on this cheap component isn't a good use of funds, because it wasn't up to much in the first instance.

Furthermore, as I keep pointing out, Sumiko still supply the same thing - new and guaranteed from £40. Why buy a 30 year old one and spend good money to bring it up to the standard of a new Sumiko when they are so reasonably priced right now ?

[MCRU]

That's not really the point.

Take a 301, 1210 or GL75. Service, mod and fettle it and you have a very high quality turntable which will outlive you. Now, you wouldn't suggest doing the same with an old Connoisseur, Dual 505 or ancient Project because the build quality of these turntables just isn't worth the outlay.

Same applies to an old A&R cartridge. It was a cheap body and stylus assembly, used in various configurations by several companies back in the day and sold as 'budget' cartridges. There are no quality bits or build as say a Supex, FR, Koetsu, Kiseki, Dynavector etc and to spend a hundred or more Pounds on this cheap component isn't a good use of funds, because it wasn't up to much in the first instance.

Furthermore, as I keep pointing out, Sumiko still supply the same thing - new and guaranteed from £40. Why buy a 30 year old one and spend good money to bring it up to the standard of a new Sumiko when they are so reasonably priced right now ?

Maybe because people like to ignore good advice Dave? It's been happening to me for years mate.:)

[Jac Hawk]

got my eye on an MP11, an AT120 and an MP110, so out of those 3 which is the one to go for, or are they all much the same, price wise they're all within £15 of each other.

ohh just realised i might have to run the stylus in on my AT110, I've only played it for abot 20 minutes and thought the C77 sounded better so put it back in it's box.

[MCRU]

got my eye on an MP11, an AT120 and an MP110, so out of those 3 which is the one to go for, or are they all much the same, price wise they're all within £15 of each other.

ohh just realised i might have to run the stylus in on my AT110, I've only played it for abot 20 minutes and thought the C77 sounded better so put it back in it's box.

dude just please buy 1, otherwise we will have another 3-4 pages dealing with the merits of each one...:ner:

you have lots more to do later with your TT anyway so bang a nagoaka in and spin some tooooons:gig:

[Jac Hawk]

well i used to be indecisive, but now i'm not so sure:ner:

Thanks for the advice:)

[WOStantonCS100]

That's not really the point.

Take a 301, 1210 or GL75. Service, mod and fettle it and you have a very high quality turntable which will outlive you. Now, you wouldn't suggest doing the same with an old Connoisseur, Dual 505 or ancient Project because the build quality of these turntables just isn't worth the outlay.

Same applies to an old A&R cartridge. It was a cheap body and stylus assembly, used in various configurations by several companies back in the day and sold as 'budget' cartridges. There are no quality bits or build as say a Supex, FR, Koetsu, Kiseki, Dynavector etc and to spend a hundred or more Pounds on this cheap component isn't a good use of funds, because it wasn't up to much in the first instance.

Furthermore, as I keep pointing out, Sumiko still supply the same thing - new and guaranteed from £40. Why buy a 30 year old one and spend good money to bring it up to the standard of a new Sumiko when they are so reasonably priced right now ?

Well, the big assumption here is that "audiophilia" has to be reasonable and practical. As with any hobby, it doesn't and it often isn't; similar to restoring a classic car. If I did have an old cartridge like an ARCAM (didn't Marco just get a Goldring G800 just 'cause he wanted one) I might just do the same thing maybe even just because it had that name on it or, perhaps, was a rarity in my neck of the woods. Who am I hurting? Specs are one thing. True value and enjoyment of one's own gear can only be determined by oneself. And sometimes it's just about having somebody over to your place and saying... "ya see that... that's a (fill in cartridge name here) with a brand new stylus... betcha never heard one that sounded this good, eh!?" That's when it gets fun. When this hobby stops becoming fun and centers solely around getting as good as you can get on the cheap... I'm out. Just chalk me up as one who wouldn't listen to good advice. ;):lol:

Nevertheless, I understand cost/value ratios; so, if that's the intent, no harm done there either. :)

[Jac Hawk]

to be honnest a new stylus just isn't possible, i got a few emails back from retailers from as far away as new zealand, they all say the same thing, either ditch it, try to pick up a secondhand stylus or get it refurbed, now the stylus on it is still ok, i just wanted to get a new one cos first off it sounds quite nice so it would be a shame to ditch it in the future, and secondly they haven't made this cart for some time now, so my thinking was the longer i left it the harder it would be to get a replacement.

Anyway i've come to the conclusion that when the stylus is worn out it's into the bin for the C77, ohh well no one lives forever i guess.

[WOStantonCS100]

to be honnest a new stylus just isn't possible, i got a few emails back from retailers from as far away as new zealand, they all say the same thing, either ditch it, try to pick up a secondhand stylus or get it refurbed, now the stylus on it is still ok, i just wanted to get a new one cos first off it sounds quite nice so it would be a shame to ditch it in the future, and secondly they haven't made this cart for some time now, so my thinking was the longer i left it the harder it would be to get a replacement.

Anyway i've come to the conclusion that when the stylus is worn out it's into the bin for the C77, ohh well no one lives forever i guess.

C'est la vie...

But, ;) you could always send it to me. :) The Mad Recycler

[The Grand Wazoo]

so my thinking was the longer i left it the harder it would be to get a replacement.


hehehe.......actually Mike, to be fair, you've left it quite a while now - 20 yrs or so!!

[Jac Hawk]

C'est la vie...

But, ;) you could always send it to me. :) The Mad Recycler

South East U.S. hmmmmmm so that would be south carolina, georga or florida, a long way for a little cart to travel

[Jac Hawk]

hehehe.......actually Mike, to be fair, you've left it quite a while now - 20 yrs or so!!

true, but seeing as i've just really got back into HiFi in the last year or so, some of it is new to me:)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Absolutely, and I'm fully with you for making the most of cheap stuff that comes your way if you like it. I've got some stuff here that I use all the time that cost almost nothing, but does the job.

[DSJR]

OK folks...

The MP11 was a pretty good budget priced cartridge, so if the stylus is good, it'll perform well as long as the arm isn't too massive.

You'll have to ask, but the MP110 stylus may well work fine on the MP11 body, but I can't answer that one - sorry.

I CAN vouch for the AT120E though. I'm stunned how pleasantly musical it sounds in the Dual's medium to lowish mass arm. It doesn't excite the Dual's tendency to microphonic headshell handling and the sense of air and space is almost palpable. The not-too-sharp elliptical tip doesn't zing or spit as the 440MLa can without VERY careful setup and the bass is fine, although Richard Black expressed slight reservations in HiFi Choice I understand (I haven't read the review).

I know money's tight for many these days, but £75 or so on a cartridge isn't huge money and either of the above should sound excellent and put many old top end confections to shame I reckon.

One final one for some iffy arms (like the Connoisseur SAU2 ;)), the Shure M97XE with damper is a good traditional model which will sound great when properly loaded. Cheap in some US online stores, it will preserve your records and work safely in a huge variety of tonearms. I sold many a 97HE to lovers of orchestral and choral music who found many alternatives mistracked these records badly. Twenty years ago, the HE was £50, the VST-V £150 (a little more refined and "replaced" by the V15V-xMR), the V15MR was £250 or so and the Ultra 500 was £500 (we never had the lower "Ultra" models here in the UK to my knowledge).

Good luck, just do it....