View Full Version : Atc Set Up
System (family friendly not to bulky and not sacrificial alter in the middle of the room required)
ATC SCM 50 active sl's (mana stands)
AVI lab series cd
AVI lab series pre
Meridiam DAC
Hi Im a nooby to hi end (just uprgraded from Meridian active system) and Wanted to know if any one has any experience of bespoke power cables for ATC actives (thinking of using missing link).
To re wire the whole system (crzy cryogenic "dark art" inter connects etc) would cost about £1k - am I wasting my money or is this really going to make a difference?
By way of experiment I put the Cd through the dac (having written it off as pointless in the Merdidian set up) and was amazed at the difference. I then got a very very heavy oak side table (could hardly lift it) spiked it and plonked the cd etc on that and was again amazed at the difference.
Or should I forget it and spend the mony on cd's (as my very very sensible wife has suggested)
Thoughts?
purite audio
12-09-2008, 11:31
Listen to your wife!
Filterlab
12-09-2008, 11:42
Well, cables do make a difference, but whether they make an improvement is another matter. Experiment, find a good dealer that has some loan cables, ask any high-end friends if they have spare cables laying about, chop and change and see if you can find improvement before financial outlay. I've tried many cables over the years, my current interconnects cost about £30 and they completely demolished the Chord Anthem interconnects which retailed at the time for nigh on £300. The best (read: most appropriate) is not necessarily the most expensive and even though spending £1k on cables is tempting as an improvement, you may be able to get as much a significant improvement for 10% of that and then spend the rest of your dosh on CDs.
looking at the stuff on your website actually we must have bought the oak table at the same shop - so we agree on that!
As for cables - I keep hearing dramatically differing views - gues ill have to borrow some and try and work it out.
sound advice - the Missing Link wil lend cables on the you wont belive your ears basis and I propose to try it bit by bit rather than blow a £k in one lot.
Curious if any users have ATCs and how they set them up - what with etc? - have not seen a single pair or mention of them on this site - but I love them to bits and so does my wife (she'd love them a little less if she knew how much they cost - but shes into dressage and 3 day event horses so is not one to lecture me on expensive hobbies)
Filterlab
12-09-2008, 12:04
It's odd that given ATC's popularity and quality that nobody on here has anything by them (that I've noticed). ATCs were on my shopping list when I bought my Revels but I couldn't get an audition pair so I crossed them off. Always struck me as great quality equipment though, and if Mark Knopfler likes them and masters exclusively through them then that should be good enough recommendation for anyone.
purite audio
12-09-2008, 13:04
Which Meridians did you have before?
Indeed I coveted them for many years - having heard a pair in the cornflake shop years ago. Finally the spare cash was available and I bought a pair 2nd hand. They were £££! but have not regretted a penny of it.
NB I am a relative novice in this game and had some AVI stuff which sounded great so when I upgraded I bought - yet more AVI and it sounds great - pure detail nothing added - nothing taken away.
And nobody seems to have any AVI stuff either - but the combination works for me and thats what matters - subject to me spending too much on some poncy mains cables get out of the system what I am guessing is more detail lurking "in there".
Any views on whether it might be sensible to mount the lot on massive slabs of granite lots of with silly cones and spikes? - I only suggest it - as there is monumental mason just round the corner and I can offcuts very cheap.
Which Meridians did you have before?
M60 ACTIVE (sitting room)
M30 ACTIVE ((kitchen)
avi pre
meridian 506 cd and 636? dac
Steve Toy
12-09-2008, 14:23
AVI stuff is absolutely fine other than the fact that Ashley James its marketeer has given up on trying to sell anything other than ADM Bloody Nine lifestyle speakers and seems to be pimping Apple/rubbishing traditional sources in the process.
I can't imagine a thousand pounds worth of cable creating as much lift in your listening experience as a thousand pounds worth of cds.
Tim
Filterlab
12-09-2008, 14:38
Certainly the AVI integrated and pre/power amplifiers are superb and get rave reviews throughout the industry. But as Steve says, it's the marketeering plonker and his cronies that f*ck it all up.
I can't imagine a thousand pounds worth of cable creating as much lift in your listening experience as a thousand pounds worth of cds.
Tim
well that is a dead cert I have to agree - but then I should have kept the old system and spent £4k on cds - DOHH!
what will happen is that I will spend £1k on cds any way as its not as if I have a choice once I enter the music shop - the ol' "thousand yard stare" kicks in and I routinely leave £100 lighter and happier to boot.
Ali Tait
12-09-2008, 16:09
By all means try some loan cables,but there are many DIY designs on the net that are very easy to make and will cost a fraction of 1% of the cost of some commercial designs and IMHO will get you very very close to the performance of the very expensive commercial types.You may want to consider doing something with the actual supply to the plugs that supply the power to your system first(i.e. dedicated supply etc.) before spending silly money on some bits of wire for the last meter.Marco is the man to comment on this.If you go down the DIY route you will save a great deal of money which can be spent on more cd's!
Regarding the granite slabs,if you can get them cheap then I'd say give it a go.Perhaps just buy one to start and try it under each of your components to see what improvements can be had.Supports do make a difference,but it is very system and room dependent,so the only way to see is to try it for yourself.
Regards,Ali.
By all means try some loan cables,but there are many DIY designs on the net that are very easy to make and will cost a fraction of 1% of the cost of some commercial designs and IMHO will get you very very close to the performance of the very expensive commercial types.You may want to consider doing something with the actual supply to the plugs that supply the power to your system first(i.e. dedicated supply etc.) before spending silly money on some bits of wire for the last meter.Marco is the man to comment on this.If you go down the DIY route you will save a great deal of money which can be spent on more cd's!
Regarding the granite slabs,if you can get them cheap then I'd say give it a go.Perhaps just buy one to start and try it under each of your components to see what improvements can be had.Supports do make a difference,but it is very system and room dependent,so the only way to see is to try it for yourself.
Regards,Ali.
Thanks - expediency dictates that the most I can do to the mains is go back as far s the wall sockets (get a sparky to change those) - any further and the "boss" wont like it. As for DIY on cables -er I can barely wire a plug so no thanks to that- my old dad (a famous and respected accademic scientist) would really turn in his grave at this (he could build a radio out of two batteries, a bit of string and bit of coal) - but his "electro genes" did not pass to me - only his old quad system which still gathers dusts some where. So I am stuck with paying for it - I can play about with granite years though as the worst that can happen is drop it on my foot!
Ali Tait
12-09-2008, 17:39
Well if you can wire a plug you can make a mains cable! :)
Hi ATC fan,
Welcome to AOS :) What's your first name? We usually ask people that (and to put it in their signature) as it makes for more friendly interaction - and of course saves people referring to you as "ATC fan" all the time!
I rate ATCs, as I do all what I call 'proper' British (monitor-style) speakers (Spendor, Harbeth, PMC, Tannoy, etc). I just like their accurate portrayal of music, especially the big boys with 12" bass drivers and above :eyebrows:
AVI? I'd always rated their gear - it was well made, sounded good and was free from marketing bullshit; that was until Ashley James and John Craddock (their MD and chief fanboy) started polluting every audio forum under the sun with their computer audio and ADM9 propaganda. Now their gear has more marketing bullshit behind it than all the rest put together!
As a matter of principle now, even if AVI gear were the best sounding hi-fi in the world, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole such is the level of disingenuous nonsense that those two have spouted everywhere to influence the gullible. Strong words, perhaps, but sometimes sales pitches are just so fundamentally wrong and damaging that it borders on the insane :mental:
Anyway, forgive me for digressing... Enjoy the forum and have fun. We want to hear all about your views on hi-fi and music :smoking:
Marco.
Hi ATC fan,
Welcome to AOS :) What's your first name? We usually ask people that (and to put it in their signature) as it makes for more friendly interaction - and of course saves people referring to you as "ATC fan" all the time!
I rate ATCs, as I do all what I call 'proper' British (monitor-style) speakers (Spendor, Harbeth, PMC, Tannoy, etc). I just like their accurate portrayal of music, especially the big boys with 12" bass drivers and above :eyebrows:
AVI? I'd always rated their gear - it was well made, sounded good and was free from marketing bullshit; that was until Ashley James and John Craddock (their MD and chief fanboy) started polluting every audio forum under the sun with their computer audio and ADM9 propaganda. Now their gear has more marketing bullshit behind it than all the rest put together!
As a matter of principle now, even if AVI gear were the best sounding hi-fi in the world, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole such is the level of disingenuous nonsense that those two have spouted everywhere to influence the gullible. Strong words, perhaps, but sometimes sales pitches are just so fundamentally wrong and damaging that it borders on the insane :mental:
Anyway, forgive me for digressing... Enjoy the forum and have fun. We want to hear all about your views on hi-fi and music :smoking:
Marco.
Andy is the name:
Yes indeed the complete 100% accuracy was all I wanted to hear nothing added nothing taken away (shredded wheat!) I want to hear people muttering in between somgs and John Lee Hookers fingers brushing (as well as twanging) the strings.
Plus I confess I rather fancied the idea of the "studio cred" (Abbey Road etc) that comes with them. I'd be a liar if I didnt admit that was an attraction.
Thats why I am so suprised they are never mentioned on these venerable pages. I am not a box swapper (just havent the time to do it) but happy to tinker about a bit for fun and to get the best out of the system (which all my friends are in jaw dropped awe at when they hear it) You gotta believe it the AVI gear really is the business at 1/3 cost of any thing else. And its going to have to last for at least 5 years - so it plenty of time to fiddle with granit bases and poncy mains cables.
AVI is a perfect match for them - and all I need to do now is have some fun and tweak the set up without wasting too much money (offers about "how to" gratefully received from any ATC owner?)
Even the 9 inchers on the 50's have more ooomph than most - god knows what a 12 inch would be like. May try one day if we move house. Then again I might try an REL sub one day to "underpin" the whole system for the organ works (see below)
My music? Any thing - From Bach, (Mozart is too noncey for me) Rameu, B'hoven, Olivier Messian (mainly Organ Works) Elvis Costello (the last true pop act in the UK and the only one who really got it right) to Fela Kuti, Tioumani Diabanti, John Lee Hooker, Howlin Woolf, all things by Steve Earl (a musical god in my view) , Taj Mahal, Led ZEp and Canned Heat Alison Kruass etc Ricki Lee Jones, Coltraine, Yusef Lateep, Papa Wemba, Abse Guyuer, Lee Perry, Grateful Dead, Propeller heads, chemical brothers, shamen, Ian Dury, Clash (7year old daughter loves the clash), The Doors, Van Morrison, Manu dibango, Leftfield, Nick Lowe, Prodigy, (but sorry absolutely NO Brit Pop of any sort or any ****ing stupid *****ing guitar bands or the`whinging bleating Coldplay in there! ever ever ever) My wife: just add Ornette Coleman - sounds like honk, squeek to me - we have to "differ" on that one -jeeez one gig we went to was a long 3 hours for me!
Marco, John Craddock is nothing to do with AVI (unless you know differently...), which is a two man band, the other being designer Martin Grindrod, who stays away from forums (although I wish he didn't, as he can tell any enquirer what he's done and WHY...).
I own ATC SCM20A sl pro's (to give something like their full title) and very much appreciate their no bullsh*t presentation. Music by straight-jacket? I can see why some would say this. Before I married, I owned SCM100A's and miss them very much; their current owner continues to tell me how wonderful they are. I'd go to live jazz gigs and play decent recordings of similar music at home and not feel the need to compare. I've never done that before or since with audio equipment and much as I love the 20 pros, they just don't "do it" the same....
ATC and AVI don't need silly cables to sound at their best, although the ATC's will need a good 16A rated mains wire to replace the 10A rated gauge they usually supply. best to buy the bits and make your own.
Regarding interconnects, I use Belden 8760 beldfoil shielded cable bought in this instance from ATC as recommended (there's a blue heavy woven screen one as well type 9272 which sounds identical to me) between sources and AVI S2000mp+p pre and from pre to speakers. This cable doesn't seem to have a sound and just gets on with it, allowing recording differences through with ease.
By the way, the speakers could do with being a little higher than the standard stands (unless they've changed them), but spikes are unnecessary, just "plonk and go." Granite style blocks may change things possibly.
I must admit I never found the AVI pre (or the CD player of theirs I owned) to need solid heavy bases underneath them, but as my Micro Seiki CD player (which weighs a ton) prefers being perched on a lightweight Sicomin base I suppose anything's possible :D
Hi Dave,
Marco, John Craddock is nothing to do with AVI (unless you know differently...)
I didn't say JC worked for AVI; I said he was a fanboy, which he is, and a hugely counterproductive one at that.
Whenever I read the bullshit AJ and Craddock (before he was banned) write on PFM it makes me cringe because it's full of half-truths aimed solely at trying to manipulate people into their way of thinking and to promote ADM9s. I don't know why Tony lets him get away with it. What AJ writes about "legacy separates" in particular is just blatant nonsense. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
AJ is so desperate to make AVI's decision to abandon traditional hi-fi and focus on computer technology work (his livelihood depends on it) that he'll go to any lengths necessary. As I've said it's rather sad, but what annoys me is the way he deliberately misleads people in order to further his own ends. That's why AJ (and his sidekick) were banned from AOS.
I have no problem with AVI products, particularly the old stuff which I think is excellent, but I have no time whatsoever for people who are disingenuous.
Andy,
Nice post. I'll come back to you tomorrow. Right now I'm off to listen to some tunes before going to bed :smoking:
Laters,
Marco.
"""""""""I own ATC SCM20A sl pro's (to give something like their full title) and very much appreciate their no bullsh*t presentation. Music by straight-jacket? I can see why some would say this. Before I married, I owned SCM100A's and miss them very much; their current owner continues to tell me how wonderful they are. I'd go to live jazz gigs and play decent recordings of similar music at home and not feel the need to compare. I've never done that before or since with audio equipment and much as I love the 20 pros, they just don't "do it" the same....""""""""
Thats why I am so nonplussed at their absence on these pages - surely thats the whole point (for me any way) pure reproduction quality - mind you I have only ever had an active system and never actually heard any other hi end fi - so I have nothing to compare it too - only crappy mass market systems my mates have.
A
I think the absence on these pages is due to their lack of "musicality" and poor reputation as a speaker designed to go very loud with low measured distortion.
I'm not sure what tweeter they use nowadays but the ATC Actives I heard in the early 90ies were pretty atrocious in the treble ie a sort of hashy sound.
I personally attended a demo by their then marketing manager Ashley James playing very loud Heavy Metal - after he took out my piano & violin recording which didn't sound good.
purite audio
13-09-2008, 09:00
I used Meridian active speakers for 20 years, and have very fond memories of them, I auditioned some ATC's at Cornflake and 5 minutes was quite enough, harsh ,strident ,not my cup of tea at all. Active speakers 'should' be capable of delivering the best sound, but as in everything implementation is everything .
Personally, I've never found ATCs to sound harsh providing that they're partnered with a source and preamp which don't exaggerate the mid and upper frequencies, where ATCs are voiced in such as way as to be unforgiving and somewhat 'brutal'.
It's that old 'synergy' thing again... It's *so* important with a hi-fi system that all the constituent components 'pull' together to satisfy musically. This can be somewhat more difficult to achieve than it seems.
The ATCs that intrigue me the most are the new huge floorstanders that Shadow Audio sell, but I can't remember what the model number is or even find a picture of them on the Net. They were advertised by Shadow Audio in one of the hi-fi magazines. I'll have a look and see if I can find it.
Maybe someone knows which ones I'm referring to?
Marco.
Filterlab
13-09-2008, 11:26
By all means try some loan cables,but there are many DIY designs on the net that are very easy to make and will cost a fraction of 1% of the cost of some commercial designs and IMHO will get you very very close to the performance of the very expensive commercial types...
That's true, worth investigating. However there are some designs that promise the world but actually end up costing you a tenner and a wasted Sunday afternoon for nothing. :) I've been there.
Filterlab
13-09-2008, 11:30
The ATCs that intrigue me the most are the new huge floorstanders that Shadow Audio sell, but I can't remember what the model number is or even find a picture of them on the Net. They were advertised by Shadow Audio in one of the hi-fi magazines. I'll have a look and see if I can find it.
Maybe someone knows which ones I'm referring to?
Marco.
Do you mean the EL150SLPs?
http://www.stereokorea.com/bbs/data/news/atc_el150_slp_resize.jpg
Filterlab
13-09-2008, 11:32
Personally speaking, the SCM150s look like they could shift the floor, but what about delicacy and accuracy?:
http://www.flatearthaudio.com/images/atc_speakers/scm150slat.jpg
Or perhaps the ATC SCM-50ASL Anniversary in Magnolia ?
Ali Tait
13-09-2008, 12:10
Good point Rob,but at least you only wasted a tenner! :)
Filterlab
13-09-2008, 12:12
Good point Rob,but at least you only wasted a tenner! :)
LOL! You got that right mate.
Actually one pair of speaker cables that I wove from Cat5E communication cable sounded awful on my 2 channel set up, but it transformed by cinema system, literally transformed it! I've got hundreds of metres left too. :) Sometimes it does work.
Do you mean the EL150SLPs?
http://www.stereokorea.com/bbs/data/news/atc_el150_slp_resize.jpg
That's the one's, Rob! They look awesome, but I wonder how they sound... I love the wood on the cabinets. What kind is it? Appearance and specification-wise they're *so* my type of speaker :fingers:
I also dig the SCM150s for their 'brutal no prisoners taken' monitor look.
These are proper speakers not like yer piddly little tinny sounding ADM9 shite :eyebrows:
Marco.
Filterlab
13-09-2008, 12:22
The finish on those ones is Burr Magnolia which I must say looks feckin' awesome, particularly contrasted with the black baffle and brushed aluminium driver surrounds. I'd imagine the sound to be very weighty and capable, but I've been surprised in the past with how some enormous speakers can sound ultra delicate and finely balanced. Of course the laws of physics still apply and starting and stopping a huge bass driver like that will always be tricky, but again I suppose it depends on if the crossover has set up to steer the mid bass away from it and toward the mid dome.
There's only one way to find out, demo. :)
Filterlab
13-09-2008, 12:24
By the way, here's the specifications:
EL150SLPs (http://www.atc.gb.net/el150slp.htm)
The spec is very tasty indeed, and the Burr Magnolia finish just beautiful.
It's the kind of speaker that if I had a bigger room I wouldn't hesitate to buy in a flash! I bet they'd sound awesome on the end of my EA1s, but sadly (or not) those are up for sale in the major hi-fi mags, and should appear listed in next month's editions.
Goodbye ECSs, we had some fun... Hello Tube Distinctions 30W pure Class A (KT88) Copper amp :)
Look out for a full review (with pictures) this Tuesday. This baby is freakin' awesome!
Marco.
I think the absence on these pages is due to their lack of "musicality" and poor reputation as a speaker designed to go very loud with low measured distortion.
I'm not sure what tweeter they use nowadays but the ATC Actives I heard in the early 90ies were pretty atrocious in the treble ie a sort of hashy sound.
I personally attended a demo by their then marketing manager Ashley James playing very loud Heavy Metal - after he took out my piano & violin recording which didn't sound good.
I dont know what you want to hear mate - but er um the music is what I like to hear - not "the speakers" or the system - mine are 2nd hand so probably late 90's early 2000 (just serviced) and all I can hear is pure music (and all the other shakes and rattles of a live concert) - you must have been having a bad hair day.
BTW way I suffer from very mild tinitus and the detail I hear through this system is the perfect foil as it keeps the mind active as it were - and allows one to lose oneself in the performance and forget anything else.
purite audio
14-09-2008, 18:03
ATC used to use an extremely cheap tweeeter a vifa? Perhaps they just need to be used with something that tones them down a little, the room at Cornflake was quite small with a hard tiled floor, they chose to use a Mark levinson cdp for the dem, it was real tooth loosening stuff.
Keith - sounds like it was probably a mismatch. I'm not a big fan of any of that American hi-end stuff, Krell, ML, etc - it all sounds somewhat 'forced' and unmusical to my ears. The exception is McIntosh; I quite like their gear, especially the valve stuff.
So probably a big part of what you heard was the sonic signature of the room and the Levinson CDP. It might be unfair to blame the ATCs for merely revealing their deficiencies ;)
Marco.
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