Computer upgrading advice

[Covenant]

My trusty HP Compaq 5100 MT has started to get a bit sluggish of late; last night I had to delete stuff as its 80 Gb is nearly used up.
So, I was all set to buy a new internal hard drive when I thought I better get some advice before I start messing with a machine that provides my income and entertainment.
So, its a Pentium 4, 2.8gh with 504Mb memory. Will I need a SATA hard drive? Should I go for a particular make? Should I upgrade the memory at the same time? Is fitting the new hard drive easy?:mental:

Any advice most welcome. :cool:

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Jerry, right click on "my computer" & select properties, then click "hardware" & select "device manager" & then click on the HDD. It'll then tell you what type of HDD is fitted to your machine then google it & you'll find out all about it. It might well be an IDE drive rathan than SATA & it'll almost certainly be a mobile drive which is much smaller than a PC drive.

You can pick up 7200RPM IDE drives at reasonable prices now, strange as they are out of production :scratch:

[Mark Grant]

with 504Mb memory.

If it has half a meg of memory that is also why it is slow.

visit crucial
http://www.crucial.com/uk/

and use the scanner tool 'Scan my System'
it will tell you what is in the PC and if you have spare memory slots.

[Reid Malenfant]

If it has half a meg of memory that is also why it is slow.
OI whatcha like, this lappy only has 500Mb as well & it isn't slow :eyebrows: PS i reckon you mean gig :ner:

[Covenant]

Thanks chaps,
Did I give the impression its a laptop? No, its a PC. Mark, I looked in my computer under Disk Drives and it says IDE\Disk ST3808110AS. When you google that reference number the examples are SATA so I am still unsure.

[Reid Malenfant]

What manufacturer is the drive Jerry, i guess that bit is important to :) It'll be miles cheaper to update a PC than a laptop, lucky you ;)

[Tim]

Thanks chaps,
Did I give the impression its a laptop? No, its a PC. Mark, I looked in my computer under Disk Drives and it says IDE\Disk ST3808110AS. When you google that reference number the examples are SATA so I am still unsure.
If it's a PC, maybe just take the side off and look at the leads going into the HDD. If it's a wide ribbon cable, about 2" it's IDE. SATA will be a small thin cable, normally red in colour, but can be other colours?

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/sata-vs-ide-labelled.jpg

[Covenant]

Over the weekend I will open it up and have a look but all the examples with that reference on Google are Seagate Barracuda.

[Tim]

Over the weekend I will open it up and have a look but all the examples with that reference on Google are Seagate Barracuda.
Could be either, the Seagate Barracudas can be IDE and SATA drives - I suspect due to the age of the processor it may well be IDE, but that's a pure guess. 80GB also leads me to believe it maybe IDE too?

If I wanted to do a small cheap upgrade to that machine, it would be to install a 500GB HDD and 2GB RAM. Then a general tidy up of the operating system using something like Ccleaner and a good defrag. Or better still, backup your important data and do a fresh install of Windows. Takes time I know, but Windows unless you really keep on top of it, will slow over time.

If you have got an older IDE drive, it could be 5400RPM, so installing a 7200RPM drive will also give you a small boost in performance.

[Effem]

Memory, memory and more memory!

My PC only had 512mb of memory, was getter slower and slower despite endless deleting and defragmenting, so a mere fiver bought two more 512mb SIMMS off ebay, it took only 10 minutes to whack them in and so my pooter runs much faster now :eyebrows:

[Tim]

Memory, memory and more memory!
+1 indeed :)

[Covenant]

Wow, I didnt realise memory was so cheap. I will deffo stick a load more in.
I really dont fancy messing with Windows. Can I add the new hard drive rather than replacing it?

[Tim]

Wow, I didnt realise memory was so cheap. I will deffo stick a load more in.
I really dont fancy messing with Windows. Can I add the new hard drive rather than replacing it?
OK, some things you will need to be aware of here upgrading an old machine? Modern memory can be cheap, but older DDR can cost more than modern DDR3 and IDE drives are also harder to source and more expensive than their SATA equivalents, unless you buy second-hand. So you will need to check which memory your motherboard needs as well? You will only need 2GB RAM for a 32bit Operating System as that is a recognised sweet spot for cost/performance.

No problem putting a second drive in, if you have the ports available on your motherboard. I suspect if you are IDE, you will have an optical drive as well, so as long as you have the available connections no problem.

This is a good tool for telling you what's under the hood too http://www.piriform.com/speccy

[Krisbee]

Jerry's HP machine is a "dc5100 Microtower PC", some hardware manuals can be found online at the HP website. It does have bays ( and ports) for up to two SATA drives.

One thing he must check before doing anything is what the maximum size hard drive the machine's BIOS can support. It's relatively old hardware and todays large hd sizes may not be supported - the BIOS could date from 2002.

The general startegy to replace a small hard drive with a second larger drive is fit the new drive alongside the old one, clone the existing drive (OS + data) and then remove the old one.

You'll need the new drive, and software to clone your existing Windows install from the old to the new drive. The HP manual mentions a "RESTORE PLAUS CD". Do you have this CD? In any case this would probaly wipe all your exisiting user data. So you'd probably have to buy/find/use an alternative to clone your data. You may also need to familiarise yourself with the system's BIOS as you may need to juggle the hard disk boot order with two hard drives in the machine.

Assuming you are comfortable doing this sort of thing, there is also the question of Windows complaining and asks for re-activation. As it's an HP machine I would have thought you'd have a OEM licence install and there should be no problem.

An alternative woud simply be to install an additional hard drive, leaving the Windows installed on your existing hard drive alone. When you re-boot with two hard drives in your machine Windows should detect the new drive automaically and install any necessry drivers. Once formatted and partitioned, you can move what data you wish to the new drive. The disadvantage is that your PC will have slightly greater power consumption and possibly run hotter.

Another possiblity is to use an external USB drive, assuming you have an spare unused USB port. (There's one on the rear panel and two on the front)

This HP machine supports up to 4GB of unbuffered DDR2 PC-3200 or PC-4300 memory. (It's doesn't say if it's non-ecc or not) It's probaly best to check exactly which type is already fitted and so avoid having to play around in the BIOS with CAS latency settings, nor is it a good idea to mix different spec memory modules. But if it's Windowx XP that you are running, 512Mb is workable (I run win xp inside Linux as virtual machine on 512MB). However, with a nearly full disk performance will be horrible. I cannot remember what the recommended unused space capacity is, but once it drop below about 10% you cannot even defrag the hard drive effectively.

I would have to say though, perhaps it's time for Jerry to consider upgrading his machine to something more modern. It doesn't have to cost a fortune, plenty of s/hand base units around, e.g a HP Compaq DX2300MT for around £100, or Lenovo ThinkCentre M55 8811 DVD 2GB Tower for around £150 if buying a known brand, and a loads of others to choose from.

[slate]

If it is this one then it is SATA
http://www.amazon.com/HP-Compaq-dc5100-Pentium-Professional/dp/B002TMAHI2

But check the cables to get it right.

More memory is good; assuming that you run XP I would recommend minimum 1 GB.

[Covenant]

All the advice is really appreciated, thanks chaps.
I took the cover off (how do PC's get so dusty?) and the cable connection to the drive does appear to be SATA but its blue not red. Also the motherboard has a spare connector alongside so fitting the new one should be ok.
The crucial scanner says my memory is DDR PC2-5200 and PC2-5300 or 6400 is suitable as a replacement up to a max of 1 gb in each of the 4 slots.
I must say I hadn't thought about replacing the entire mini-tower. Given that a decent hard drive will cost £50 and the memory £25 its worth thinking about.
Attached are a couple of photos. Note the high fidelity speaker :)

[Tim]

To be honest, there are so many good deals around at the moment, it may be worth considering a new PC. You would have very little hassle and a brand new Windows 7 machine which will trounce all over your current one in terms of performance.

If you use eBay, strip the old one down and sell the components individually, which is likely to get you more back than trying to sell it as a complete unit. Then keep your current 80GB drive with your data on and slot it into the new machine?

[Krisbee]

Jerry, you machine is in serious need of a spring clean. I'm not sure I'd trust the crucial on-line scanner, better to download, install and run a system info tool like the one Tim suggested. Hwinfo32 is another that will tell you accurately what memory modules are installed on your m/board.

HP just happens to use blue to show which is the primary hard drive. I wouldn't be surprised if the BIOS limits you to booting off the primary hard drive only.

The "parts map" for your HP DC5100 MT can be found here:

http://bizsupport2.austin.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/c00281919/c00281919.pdf

A couple of points that strike me is that it may not suppport 2GB memory modules, mulitples of 1gb look ok. The largest drive size mentioned is 250GB, small by today's standards. It is possible to update the BIOS

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=uk&taskId=130&prodSeriesId=454811&prodTypeId=12454&objectID=c00007682

but I cannot find the max size hard drive supported.

Time to shop around, I think.

[Macca]

If it's any help I bought a new desktop last week - online from PC World - £280 incl Saturday morning delivery. It is lightening fast and better still - almost completely silent - the hiss of the gas fire is louder. I didn't need anyhting fancy so I just ordered their cheapest desktop.

[slate]

What speaker.... still coughing up dust bunnies...

[Covenant]

What speaker.... still coughing up dust bunnies...

:lol:

[WAD62]

If you decide to upgrade rather than replace, grab a copy of Norton Ghost and make a disk image of your 80gb HD onto a new larger drive...then swap them round. You won't even need to rebuild it...oh and whack a couple more on there whilst you're at it, always best to have data disks separate from your system disk, safer and faster :)

I got a seagate 7.2k SATA 2 500gb for £24 a couple of weeks ago, they're dirt cheap these days.

Oh and as everyone states put at least 2Gb of memory on it, check out if it's 'dual channel' or not, as you need the memory slots to be in matching pairs

I use these chaps http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/

Very competetive :)

[Covenant]

I think I have decided to go with Will's suggestion and get a 500Gb SATA hard drive plus 2 x 1 Gb memory. I will leave the existing drive in place but transfer Flac files and work files onto the new drive. Once the original disc has a bit more space on it I will defrag it.
That should do me for a couple of years.

[Tim]

:( Not that I'm a sulking type of person or anything, but isn't that what I said in post number #9 ;)


If I wanted to do a small cheap upgrade to that machine, it would be to install a 500GB HDD and 2GB RAM.

:lolsign:

[Covenant]

So you did Tim, many thanks. Now I am just reading up on Sata 2 and SATA 3. I suppose I will have to find if the new drive is compatible with my motherboard.

[Tim]

It will be SATA II on your board and newer drives are backwards compatible. :)

[aquapiranha]

I would certainly upgrade the RAM bit I would keep the PC and maybe install Ubuntu and use it as a spare. :)

[slate]

Supposed to be backward compatible

[Covenant]

So this should be ok?
http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product.aspx?code=HDS-500413AS

[Tim]

So this should be ok?
http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product.aspx?code=HDS-500413AS
Yup, should be fine this is similar value http://www.ebuyer.com/product/158860, so guess it goes down to P&P costs? You can read customer comments too.

Ebuyer are one of the countries largest, together with Dabs, not heard of Eclipse :scratch: Unless you have one, you will need a SATA cable too?

[WAD62]

Yup, should be fine this is similar value http://www.ebuyer.com/product/158860, so guess it goes down to P&P costs? You can read customer comments too.

Ebuyer are one of the countries largest, together with Dabs, not heard of Eclipse :scratch: Unless you have one, you will need a SATA cable too?

Eclipse are fine, but I have the added advantage of being close to them, if there's a problem I can pop to the shop in Cov...I'm sure there are plenty of good options.

Make sure you get a SATA cable with a clip on it, a loose SATA cable has caused me lots of anguish recently ;)

You'll probably need a power cable too :)

[Covenant]

Very impressed with Eclipse. Ordered the hard drive, cable and memory on Sunday and they arrived today. Just finished installing and formatting the hard drive so I can start moving stuff over to free up space. I was down to 3% on my original HD so it was as well that I didn't wait any longer.
A question on the software side of things. I want to move over all my music which is under C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music. My new drive is E. Will the new path be E:\ My Music