1210's and Mods...

[JRS]

....Modifications that is and not the Parka wearing, scooter riding winklepickeling herberts of yesteryear.:)
After reading many threads about 1210 tweaking I was wondering if any of you regretted spending what looks like £1000's in some cases on the Techie and bought into a higher end TT?
What else could you buy for around £1.5k-2k?
The reason I'm asking is because I have a couple of 1210's and need to improve one or sell both and get something better.
I do love my 1210's and I'd like to keep them so I'd also like some advice on the best mods vs budget mods for arms and PSU's. I see that Paul Hynes is highly regarded for PSU's. how do the earlier models compare to the S5?
Cheers

[Wakefield Turntables]

....Modifications that is and not the Parka wearing, scooter riding winklepickeling herberts of yesteryear.:)
After reading many threads about 1210 tweaking I was wondering if any of you regretted spending what looks like £1000's in some cases on the Techie and bought into a higher end TT?
What else could you buy for around £1.5k-2k?
The reason I'm asking is because I have a couple of 1210's and need to improve one or sell both and get something better.
I do love my 1210's and I'd like to keep them so I'd also like some advice on the best mods vs budget mods for arms and PSU's. I see that Paul Hynes is highly regarded for PSU's. how do the earlier models compare to the S5?
Cheers

Welcome!

I had a LP12 worth twice as much as I spent on my 1210 and I still think the 1210 has the ripped the LP12 to bits in every department. I have no regrets, I've listened to various "high-end" tables and not found anything better than my little techie! It can do all the things the other decks claim to do and probably more besides. With £1.5-2k you could probably get the Mike new bearing, a decent tonearm, decent cartridge and probably the Timestep power supply. You'd need a little more spending power to get a fully trumped out 1210. The 1210 is already a great deck, any modification thats listed within this hallowed forum will only give more benefits to your lug holes :ner:

[DSJR]

I see it like this - the basic deck is good and in domestic use may see most of us off.. Any/most mods can be carried out by the end user in a predictable and safe manner, rather than paying a dealer shedloads to do it and even though the end user has done it, the results will be consistent - the LP12 was a nightmare in its formative decades as no two samples were usually the same.

Enjoy your Techies guys :)

[chris@panteg]

I have spent a bit on mine , and though a very good deck , I'm not so sure its as good as i thought it was !

The good thing is if i get tired of it ,then the 309 can be transplanted to any new contender such as the Avid Diva or Notts Spacedeck for example .

I don't regret trying out the mods to mine , but i don't think you need to spend that much to get it to sing as it were .

[bubba45]

I have a couple of 1210's, an SL-7 & SL-DL1 and an SP10.

The only mods to my 1210's are - new feet (1 with rubber cones & 2 with sorbothane pods), change of platter mat on 2 - Herbie's mat & platter matter - and change of arm - 1 with Jelco 370H, 1 with Jelco/LAD 370D and 1 with a Mission 774SM. They sound marvellous. Really lovely IMPO.

I think that is about all I will do with them except possibly ask Richard @ Vantage Audio to move the PSU externally at some point in the future. But only possibly. The 1210's are great decks as is but with a few basic mods they become excellent TT's that are hard to beat and are real VFM.

What would I do if I had a couple of 1210's and £1k - £1.5k to spend but unsure which way to go?
I'd do one of 2 things -

1. Sell the 1210's and look out for an SP10, get the deck fully serviced / upgraded by Richard @ Vantage Audio, then make sure I got the best arm/cart combination I could.

2. Keep the 1210's as is and get a few of the basic mods - feet & mat and add the best arms / carts I could afford. Spend any left over on vinyl. The Jelco arms make a great combination on a 12** deck.

Just my opinion based on limited experience with Technics 12** TT's. I've had a few other TT's - mainly belt drives - and I rate the 12**'s very highly.

[DSJR]

I have spent a bit on mine , and though a very good deck , I'm not so sure its as good as i thought it was !

The good thing is if i get tired of it ,then the 309 can be transplanted to any new contender such as the Avid Diva or Notts Spacedeck for example .

I don't regret trying out the mods to mine , but i don't think you need to spend that much to get it to sing as it were .

Chris, I don't know the Avid (although Dave Cawley does I think) but the NAS deck to look at is the Hyperspace - and probably with the Wave-Mechanic supply a cool £3K worth. The Spacedeck is lovely I know, but may not quite have the rock-solid pitch that the techies and lencos of this world seem to have. Again with the Ace-Spacedeck, there's the Heavy-Kit and Wave-Mechanic option, which again, takes it further and at a cost increase (up to £2K at least).

Sadly, you don't get owt for nowt in this world, unless you're very lucky...

[Ammonite Audio]

.... I see that Paul Hynes is highly regarded for PSU's. how do the earlier models compare to the S5?
Cheers

I'm sure that Marco will soon chip in with his experiences, having had various flavours of PSUs powering his Technics. Paul Hynes produces a number of PSUs - I have the SR3 and the much beefier SR5, both of which are very much current products. Both share the same topology, but with different current capacities. To answer your question, I do not believe that you will be dissatisfied with the smaller SR3, which IMHO does rather leave the Timestep PSU standing in terms of sound quality. The SR5 is in a different performance league altogether, as Marco and Martin have experienced. I should add that my SR3 is now used to power a HiFace Evo USB converter, and the SR5 powers my Kenwood KD-770D. I no longer own a Technics deck.

[JazzBones]

I'm sure that Marco will soon chip in with his experiences, having had various flavours of PSUs powering his Technics. Paul Hynes produces a number of PSUs - I have the SR3 and the much beefier SR5, both of which are very much current products. Both share the same topology, but with different current capacities. To answer your question, I do not believe that you will be dissatisfied with the smaller SR3, which IMHO does rather leave the Timestep PSU standing in terms of sound quality. The SR5 is in a different performance league altogether, as Marco and Martin have experienced. I should add that my SR3 is now used to power a HiFace Evo USB converter, and the SR5 powers my Kenwood KD-770D. I no longer own a Technics deck.

Ermm Hugo, which Timestep PSU are you referring to, the standard one or the HE one? I did ask somewhere else but as far as I can tell the comparison is still to be done :scratch: To muddy the waters further, Origin Live have also come up with with their own PSU in three possible implementation for the 12**. No doubt Musical Fidelity will come up with their version and will receive glorification in the Hi Fi press :eek::lol:

As for me, I am inclined to go along with Chris P's view point as for a Hi-modded 1210.

I think anyone considering taking the Tekko to its limits should first of all do the financial sums first, tot up what they are prepared to pay, keep the total amount in mind then go and see/hear what other makes of turntables can do for you... there is something for everyone out there and the 12** is not the B all of TTs to own. Each of us have different tastes and requirements and choice. Who knows you might say, 'sod turntables, I'm putting my money towards a good digital player' ;)

I think that the point of no return is when the final outlay, viz: the Mike New platter is contemplated as this is where the larger share of the spending will take place on the motor unit itself IMO and could one expect to recoup all monies in selling off the super tricked out Tekko... who knows? Somewhere Marco has said that his expenditure to date is in the region of UK£4.5K which would give a wide choice of good TTs, would it not?

Ron :violin:

[chris@panteg]

Hi Ron

I am inclined to agree with you :)

To better my current Techie , a 2nd hand Voyd Valdi would take it to the cleaner's i suspect , can't say the same for anyone else's 1200/1210 though !

Perhaps I'm just unlucky .

[JazzBones]

Hi Ron

I am inclined to agree with you :)

To better my current Techie , a 2nd hand Voyd Valdi would take it to the cleaner's i suspect , can't say the same for anyone else's 1200/1210 though !

Perhaps I'm just unlucky .

Yup Chris, I see where you are coming from :) I bought my 1210 to play (no pun intended) a secondary roll to my LP12 (Modded). The 1210 was to be used in a small home study room (I mean small too!) but after reading HFW way back a few editions ago, I bought my 1210 and used it straight out of the box after installing a Goldring GX1012 pickup cartridge, it would have stayed like that as I had already spent my pension fund :) on the LP12 mods, but alack and alas I got hooked on hot rodding the 1210, beats lying under a car bonnet, and stopped short at the MN platter... not knocking it one iota but it was one chunk of money from under the mattress to far for me if you follow my thinking?

We'll get there one day mate :lol:

Ron

[MartinT]

Hi Jamie

Ron's advice is sound - try to identify what mods you may want to incude, cost it up and listen to what else you could buy for the same price.

For me, I have no regrets at all. I love the sound my 1210 makes and I do know mine is one of the more extreme examples. Listening is believing.

[Ammonite Audio]

Ermm Hugo, which Timestep PSU are you referring to, the standard one or the HE one? I did ask somewhere else but as far as I can tell the comparison is still to be done :scratch: To muddy the waters further, Origin Live have also come up with with their own PSU in three possible implementation for the 12**. No doubt Musical Fidelity will come up with their version and will receive glorification in the Hi Fi press :eek::lol:

I do not know about the Timestep HE either. My comments relate to the original Timestep PSU, which I did own.

[JRS]

Thanks for the tips. How much do the S3's go for? I was thinking of the jelco 750 but not sure of the difference between the D, E or L. I need something with a detachable head shell as the wife has lots of vinyl but likes to casually drop the needle on the record until she finds her favorite tune:steam: So I'll need to keep anything exotic under wraps. I've looked at the AT-OC9ML/II but at £490 it's a bit much really. Any alternatives?

[colinB]

I recently swapped my Ortofon 2m blue for a Goldring 2500 on a jelco arm.
I just couldnt pay out for the black stylus at £400. Im very pleased with it and wont touch it until it wears out.

[WOStantonCS100]

I was wondering if any of you regretted spending what looks like £1000's in some cases on the Techie and bought into a higher end TT?

My short answer to that is, "No."

The longer answer is, "Throw me a Grand Prix Monaco, Technics SP-10MK3 or "The Beat", and I'll throw you a 1200 in a heartbeat (well, more like a 1500K2). ;)

[spikeyfaz]

I should add that my SR3 is now used to power a HiFace Evo USB converter, and the SR5 powers my Kenwood KD-770D. I no longer own a Technics deck.

Shuggie

How do you find the Kenwood compares to the Technics?

I own a couple of KD-990's and worry about the spares situation on these decks. On one of them the speed has gone haywire and I was thinking of getting a Technics tt before the other one goes as well. Unless of course the power supply you refer to by-passes all of the Kenwood electrics...??

Regards
Mike

[Ammonite Audio]

Hi Mike

I would not worry unduly about Kenwood spares, since Richard at Vantage Audio seems to keep a decent stock of parts.

To answer your question, the two decks are very different animals. The Kenwood has a much calmer feel about it, a bit like my old Nottingham Spacedeck, which is intended as a compliment. I did always get the feeling that the Technics was always trying just a little bit too hard, and while its speed control was ostensibly spot on accurate, I felt that underneath its control circuitry was maybe on the ragged edge. It did not (to my ears at least) sound particularly musical, even after PSU and bearing upgrades. But, this hobby is all about individuals and their tastes and many here are very happy indeed with their Techies, whether modded or not.

I am no technical expert, but the Kenwood has a relatively low-torque motor that is built into a large composite block which cannot ever suffer the flex and wobble that I believe the Technics suffers from (and which is only solved by applying all of Mike New's upgrades). That low torque motor spins a large and massy platter, which gives good inertia, but the bearing itself is grease lubricated and has relatively high natural drag. I believe that The Kenwood's motor is designed to push gently against this fixed drag, so will never overshoot, as the free-spinning Technics must do to a degree. Simple and elegant.

Ultimately, I do find the Kenwood to be a more musical and lyrical thing, but I do admit that it does not do sonic fireworks as well as a fettled Technics can. I got a birch-ply plinth made for it by Russ Collinson which looks lovely, but the thing sounded very dull indeed, when fitted with the Jelco arm. Luckily, the new Audio Note arm gets on just fine with that plinth and I'm very much enjoying listening to it. A minor speed variation problem has been solved by replacing all of the important electrolytic capacitors (thanks to Richard at Vantage Audio for those).

Cheers




Shuggie

How do you find the Kenwood compares to the Technics?

I own a couple of KD-990's and worry about the spares situation on these decks. On one of them the speed has gone haywire and I was thinking of getting a Technics tt before the other one goes as well. Unless of course the power supply you refer to by-passes all of the Kenwood electrics...??

Regards
Mike

[spikeyfaz]

Thanks for your reply Hugo.

Will stick with the Kenwood and focus on getting a cartridge for it. Keep swapping from Denon DL-110 to DL-103 but cannot find that sweet spot. I have no idea what sort of effective weight the Kenwood arm has. Any ideas?

Regards
Mike

[Ammonite Audio]

Thanks for your reply Hugo.

Will stick with the Kenwood and focus on getting a cartridge for it. Keep swapping from Denon DL-110 to DL-103 but cannot find that sweet spot. I have no idea what sort of effective weight the Kenwood arm has. Any ideas?

Regards
Mike

I reckon that it's a fairly low mass affair, so adding weight may be the answer to getting a 103 to work properly. A good way of adding weight is to wrap lead sheet around the headshell end of the armtube - search eBay for "Dolls House Lead Flashing".

[spikeyfaz]

I reckon that it's a fairly low mass affair.

Yeah, I had a feeling that might be the case.

Both the DL-110 & DL-103 are worn out so need to decide on a single replacement. I 'nuded' the DL-103 and then glued a more solid backing plate to it and the results weren't bad. I'm using Ortofon SUTs plugged into the back of my amp. However, I still find the sound a bit 'shut-in' compared to the DL-110. I wonder if more mass would help in this regard.

I suppose I could get my other Kenwood tt up and running, sell one and then use the funds to experiment with a higher mass arm to suit the 103. I just have a feeling the 103 has a lot more to give than the 110.

Mike

[Marco]

Chaps, sorry I've come late to this thread - been too busy playing with valves.... :eyebrows:

I'll add some thoughts (a few crucial points need addressing) once I've downed my croissant and cappuccino!

Marco.

[JazzBones]

Chaps, sorry I've come late to this thread - been too busy playing with valves.... :eyebrows:

I'll add some thoughts (a few crucial points need addressing) once I've downed my croissant and cappuccino!

Marco.

I wondered where you had got to... be gentle with us when you get back:)

[UV101]

I'll add some thoughts (a few crucial points need addressing) once I've downed my croissant and cappuccino!

Marco.

thats some coffee you got there Marco!!! :eyebrows::lol:

[Marco]

Some other things have cropped up, but as Arnie says: "I will be back...!" ;)

Marco.