PDA

View Full Version : Tim's SL-1210 adventure



Sid and Coke
05-09-2008, 23:13
I decided to take a two pronged approach to ths one in the end. I used the supplied Technics overhang guage and a razor blade to get the overhang correct. I then downloaded and printed off a generic Stevenson alignment protractor from Vinyl Engine. When i checked the aligment using the grid I found that it was pretty much spot on and just needed just the smallest amount of fine tuning.

It may sound weird but straight away i thought the deck sounded better. I'm not actually sure that it did sound different from just using the plastic tool , but in my head i just felt that i'd done as good a job as i could.

I've been using the deck all afternoon and think that is sounds pretty damn good. I've not warmed to it as much as my existing Linn , however I'd wanted an LP12 for years and years before i got mine and then i have gone on to stamp my own signature on it. I don't feel the same way about the Technics, yet. It doesn't feel like its mine.
From a purely mechanical 'machine' point of view the Technics is pretty special though, everything just seems to work so well on it .


So far I would say that on the plus side:

The deck seems solid and extremely well made.
everything just seems to work and there is a lot of 'facility' e.g. adjustable VTA built in, Arm seems to be good quality, electronics and switch gear feel nice.

I like the instant stop/start and adjustable pitch, etc which i've even surprised my self by using on a few records to 'zip' them up a bit :)

The stylus light is handy and gives a good view in the gloom.

Things that I'm not too impressed with

The base, plinth and suspension/feet seem to be a bit more susceptable to outside influence than i'm used to. I have my deck mounted on a Mana wall shelf which I think is a pretty good support. If i very lighlty tap the wall shelf, feet or deck with the needle just resting on a stopped record i can hear it very clearly through the speakers. I'm pretty sure i dont get none of this with my Linn unless I tap the plinth really quite hard, or slightly softer on the arm board. I don't think this has actually equated to affecting my listening pleasure though. I've not noticed and accoustic feedback, even though one of my speakers (Rega Kyte/Kan stands) is very close and i use a small sub-woofer.

The lid feels flimsy and plasticy rather than heavy and acrylicy if that makes sense. These are the type of lids that Hi-Fi magazines used to recommend to remove due to microphany years ago. No probs with the Linn. Bit pissed off that i had to spend an extra £22 to retro fit a new hinge kit too. I always use the lid and almost had two nasty accidents because of my old habits...

Tha bright red stobe is handy, but a defeat switch would have been nice.

I have the VTA set to zero and am ssing the supplied Technics slip mat on top of the rubber mat and still my DL304 looks a bit high at the back and slighly tail up.

I did make a nice thick aluminium block from a chunk of 7075 T6 ali ( less than 5g). This allowed me to mount my DL304 onto the block , using two screws, then mount the whole lot onto the headshell, using nuts and bolts , unfortunately it was a little too heavy and i couldn't get the counter weight to balance out. The extra few mm would have been nice to make the VTA setting more usable .

I'm sure I'll have a few more develpoments over the coming weeks , but for now I'm up and running with it proper ....

Marco
06-09-2008, 09:25
Hi Tim,

Nice write-up. I will move your post to the 'Stokes of Genius' section where reports such as this are archived, and where there is already lots of info about the 1210. Please continue to give us your thoughts as you familiarise yourself with it more.


I'm not actually sure that it did sound different from just using the plastic tool , but in my head i just felt that i'd done as good a job as i could.


I did say ;)

A notable percentage of what you hear though with hi-fi is due to psychological effects, so you done the right thing just to be 100% satisfied.

Marco.

Sid and Coke
06-09-2008, 11:59
Pro:

The counter weight. It seems to be incredibly accurate. I used a set of electronic vtf scales and if you follow the instructions in the manual, the divisions seem to be exactly correct. e.g. balance the arm in the hover, zero the dial, turn the whole counterweight to your setting ( 1.3g in my case) and when i checked using the digital scales they read exactly 1.30g .

Don't know why this should surprise me but it is nice when stuff just works...

DSJR
06-09-2008, 12:02
I'd respectfully suggest that a 304 may not be ideally suited to the Technics arm perhaps, due to its highish compliance (for moving coil)...

All "solid" style turntables will exhibit a little "thud" through the speakers if you gently thump the plinth but you have to counteract this with the "terminal" boom/wobble that used to occur if you tapped the LP12 arm-board (I know the Cirkus is better here and the Keel almost certainly is totally better in this). Whether the Mana is adding its own "counter" resonances to the picture I don't know (I suspect it is, but I avoided that religion like the plague back then - the awful screechy noise they got out of ATC 100's put me off for life :D)

Marco
06-09-2008, 12:31
LOL, Dave. You haven't heard the "notorious one's" system, have you? :eyebrows:

There's nothing "screechy" sounding about Mana when it's set-up properly - if there was I wouldn't use it :)

Marco.

DSJR
06-09-2008, 12:42
LOL, Dave. You haven't heard the "notorious one's" system, have you? :eyebrows:

There's nothing "screechy" sounding about Mana when it's set-up properly - if there was I wouldn't use it :)

Marco.


I'm glad to hear it Marco... But that dem at a Heathrow show was more "hifi" than "hifi" if you see what I mean. I just stood there in total disbelief at how such a big speaker with a reasonably extended bass could end up sounding like a pair of Rob's (from PFM) re-foamed AR18's on a Dual 505 source.....:lolsign:

Actually Tim (?), once you have the arm height situation sorted (a different headshell should assist you possibly, or try a balsa or ally spacer (not too tight on the screws though), a KAB damper should help with stability and may also assist with isolation I think.

Marco
06-09-2008, 12:51
Ah, I know the demo you're referring to now. I think you can safely disregard that ;)

Marco.

Sid and Coke
06-09-2008, 14:32
Actually Tim (?), once you have the arm height situation sorted (a different headshell should assist you possibly, or try a balsa or ally spacer (not too tight on the screws though), a KAB damper should help with stability and may also assist with isolation I think.

I did make a nice headshell spacer. It is made from a bit of 7075 T6 Aluminium. I threaded the two front holes to take a couple of small cart bolts through the DL304's front two holes, then cut another couple of holes to attach the whole lot through the headshell. Although the spacer is <5g when i add the mounting hardware i can't get the arm to balance as my counterweight is too light.

I have a few other bits and pieces available to me to try another one , slightly thinner ali plate, perspex, paxolin, etc. i just need another couple of mm. I'm already using the supplied Rubber mat and slip mat to get some height.

Balsa wood seems a little too squashy for my liking ? ....

Took me bloody ages to file that block square too so i was a bit miffed.

Mike
06-09-2008, 14:41
A bit of cut down old PCB should work quite well Tim.

Cheers,
Mike.

Yomanze
06-09-2008, 15:17
I did make a nice headshell spacer. It is made from a bit of 7075 T6 Aluminium. I threaded the two front holes to take a couple of small cart bolts through the DL304's front two holes, then cut another couple of holes to attach the whole lot through the headshell. Although the spacer is <5g when i add the mounting hardware i can't get the arm to balance as my counterweight is too light.

I have a few other bits and pieces available to me to try another one , slightly thinner ali plate, perspex, paxolin, etc. i just need another couple of mm. I'm already using the supplied Rubber mat and slip mat to get some height.

Balsa wood seems a little too squashy for my liking ? ....

Took me bloody ages to file that block square too so i was a bit miffed.

It's worth mentioning that getting some extra-heavy new counterweights up brings a most worthwhile improvement in overall definition and 'weight' to the sound. A big upgrade from the pretty light stock C/W. You'll see some on Marco's avatar. Here's a pic of my deck (now using more weights & a nude DL103 stuck to a 4mm thick brass plate).

http://media.tumblr.com/mVlnxPqN4b03xpy9GbVMfCwX_r2_400.jpg

DSJR
06-09-2008, 16:22
That counterweight looks really good.

Marco, could you be troubled to change your avatar to show a bit more of the deck and arm please?

Balsa is a bit soft I agree, but just how tightly does a cartridge have to be torqued to in a detachable head arm, bearing in mind the other fallacies that have been de-bunked recently? Silly rhetorical question I know, but look at the squidgy thing the cartrdge man supply's (which does have a bad effect on the bass performance...).

The black decks do look quite subtle don't they? Almost makes me wish I could have my ancient SL110 back, but I fear it would sound just as smeared and feedback prone as it did when I replaced it with my first LP12.

Sid and Coke
06-09-2008, 16:49
Can you go too far with all this weight though ?

I know that bearings a pretty robust, but there must be point where you can go too far.

For the moment i think I'm going to try another spacer. i suppose i could also drill a load of lightening holes in the one I've already made to take a bit of mass out of it, an perhaps even dispense with the second set of bolts ( i kinda liked that idea though )

My reason for making it was twofold. firstly as a spacer ( it is 5mm thick) and also to add some support to the top of the cart if i went for the Baewald cartridge alignment which seems to push the cart far fwd on the head shell. I've decided after an afternoon of playing records that the Stevenson alignment sounds OK, i probably wouldn't notice the differnce between the two anyway if i'm being honest.

The Technics SL1200, there are many thousands of them out there , but this one is mine:

Latest Picture (http://imageevent.com/sidandcoke/someofmydecks?p=12&b=-1&m=30&c=2&w=2&s=1&n=1&l=0&z=3#album)

Apologies for my photography skills I'm just a snap shooter...

Yomanze
06-09-2008, 17:00
Hi Tim, I noticed more distortion on the inner tracks with Baerwald alignment. It does seem that Stevenson is the way to go with the SL1210.

With regards to mass, I guess you can go 'too far', but not with a Denon DL103... ;) Not sure if the increased mass will cause damage, but maybe could increase bearing wear. I personally am not worried about increased bearing wear because even if it did become an issue, a replacement tonearm is £45 to £65 - thank God for mass production!

Marco
06-09-2008, 17:20
Marco, could you be troubled to change your avatar to show a bit more of the deck and arm please?


Hi Dave,

I'd love to but Steve's the one with the camera phone.

I'm sure one of the other 1210 brass counterweight 'crew' could help you out :)

Tim,

Getting the brass c/w balance is a good idea, but if you don't want to go down that road I have the little metal counterweight that came with the deck, which crews into the back of the main counterweight balance to add extra weight. I can send you this if you wish as I have no use for it. It might be enough to allow you to balance the arm.

Also, you're right about going too far with mass, as far as your 304 is concerned. It's a different ball game from the 103 in terms of compliance and the need for mass loading. 'Just enough' is what you're looking for.

Marco.

Cotlake
06-09-2008, 18:16
Hi Tim,

I'm not knowledgable on 304's or your deck for that matter but I believe users of the 304 get best results by adding mass to the headshell so your spacer should be good. This needs to be recipricated at the counter weight not just to make it balance but also so you can keep the counter weight as close to the arm pillar as possible in order to keep sideways inertia to a minimum. Could you (as an initial experiment) stick a cut out section of sheet lead to the counter weight to get it working correctly and then assess performance? If it works you could then weigh your 'experimental' weight and have a brass one turned up to that spec. Of course, the greater the diameter, the narrower the weight needs to be and the lower the sideways inertia when playing a record.

Best wishes,

Greg

Sid and Coke
06-09-2008, 18:43
Cheers fella's. I was running the 304 in this manner on my Akito 2B. I had a headshell weight ( made from a £1 coin (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/sidshifi/large/DSCF0173.JPG):) ) and also modified the Akito counterweight packing it out ( and out of sight ) using some lead strips and blue tac as it is hollow.

http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/upcloseandpersonal/websize/DL304%20top.jpg


The DL304 seems to work quite well to my ears in the Technics arm as it is , I'd just like to ge it a bit more parallel though. Time to get back in the shed with the tool box me thinks... :)

Marco
07-09-2008, 09:35
Tim, I think that plate you've made is ample in terms of adding more mass. The 304 is nothing like as fussy about mass as a 103, so watch you don't overdo it either at the headshell or at the other end of the arm. It's also worth noting that the Technics arm has an effective mass of 12g (minus added weights), which I think is higher than the Akito.

Marco.

thrunobulaxx
07-09-2008, 13:20
Cheers fella's. I was running the 304 in this manner on my Akito 2B. I had a headshell weight ( made from a £1 coin (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/sidshifi/large/DSCF0173.JPG):) ) and also modified the Akito counterweight packing it out ( and out of sight ) using some lead strips and blue tac as it is hollow.

http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/upcloseandpersonal/websize/DL304%20top.jpg


The DL304 seems to work quite well to my ears in the Technics arm as it is , I'd just like to ge it a bit more parallel though. Time to get back in the shed with the tool box me thinks... :)

Oy you. i was just about to patent a H/S plate and aux c/w kit.:)

Nice use of the coin but you know you have posted a pic of an illegal act ?:eyebrows:

There was me buying brass plate and paying its postage:doh:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/DSC02929.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/Linnplate001.jpg

Do you want some smaller s/s bolts.;)

Sid and Coke
07-09-2008, 16:06
thrunobulaxx:
£1 coin, non magnetic, reasonably tough, corrosion resistant and about the right size, it just made sense to me :).

Marco:

I have looked through my box that the SL1200 was supplied in and it would appear that the only thing the seller didn't send me was the additional Counter weight ( mine was sold as a mint s/h unit ), so if you do have one going spare I'll happily take it, ( scrounging git :) ) .

All;
I have made a new headshell spacer. I used a piece of 2-3mm thick paxolin type meterial, ( we use them as non metalic scrapers at work to remove sealant). It is fairly hard stuff so i was abble to thread it. I have firmly attached the spacer to my DL304 usig a couple of bolts, then bolted the cartridge and spacer assy to the headshell.

I cut some extra lightening holes in the spacer to reduce weight further (Aircraft tech mode ;) ) but without losing too much rigidity, this device just taking compressive loads.

The spacer places the stylus tip close to the Technics o/hang tool to aid alignment. I then just cross checked and fine tuned with the Stevenson grid protractor ( again :) )
I am really warming to that little o/hang tool, it isn't 'absolutely' perfect ( especially with an eliptical needle i would guess), but it definately brings things down to gnats cock fine tuning territory. ( pics to follow)

Got the deck playing music again. I'm not to slag off my Linn LP12 as i love it too much and have thoroughly enjoyed owning and tweeking it , but the sheer functionality of the Technics is great. And it seems to sound good too.

I have set myself a target of the end of the month to decide which one is going to stay, so more music.....

Peter Stockwell
08-09-2008, 11:17
Got the deck playing music again. I'm not to slag off my Linn LP12 as i love it too much and have thoroughly enjoyed owning and tweeking it , but the sheer functionality of the Technics is great. And it seems to sound good too.

I have set myself a target of the end of the month to decide which one is going to stay, so more music.....

I admit I don't know LP12's intimately, the last time I heard one back in 2002, maybe ? I was troubled by what I call pitch instability, in comparison to CD that is. I think the SL1200/SL1210 completely nails the pitch stability thing. With he PS1200 from KAB, epmhatically more so.

I also think that the technics is very matter of fact in presentation, and some listeners may not like this lack of, for want of a better word, excitement.

regards

Marco
08-09-2008, 13:59
Marco:

I have looked through my box that the SL1200 was supplied in and it would appear that the only thing the seller didn't send me was the additional Counter weight ( mine was sold as a mint s/h unit ), so if you do have one going spare I'll happily take it, ( scrounging git :) ) .


PM sent :)


I am really warming to that little o/hang tool, it isn't 'absolutely' perfect ( especially with an eliptical needle i would guess), but it definately brings things down to gnats cock fine tuning territory


Remember that the 'little plastic overhang tool' is made by the Japanese, namely the makers of the deck, so they wouldn't manufacture it if it wasn't accurate or fit for the job ;)


Got the deck playing music again. I'm not to slag off my Linn LP12 as i love it too much and have thoroughly enjoyed owning and tweeking it , but the sheer functionality of the Technics is great. And it seems to sound good too.


As Peter says the LP12 is quite coloured sounding in comparison, albeit it 'tuneful', as a result of its sonic signature. I can understand people preferring it to a 1210 because of this unique 'character' (and some can be enjoyable to listen to) the same way as perhaps some consider a nice piece of steak more enjoyable with Diane or pepper sauce poured on top. I however prefer the real taste of the meat with no 'artificially enhanced richness'.

Also, having been used to the accurate speed stability of a good direct-drive mechanism for some time now I can instantly hear the 'wavering' of notes as they decay on any low-mass belt-drive T/T, particularly on solo piano, and the LP12 is no exception. It is very distracting.


I have set myself a target of the end of the month to decide which one is going to stay, so more music.....

Given the circumstances under which you acquired your LP12, and the beautiful plinth you've put it in, I think you might struggle separating the emotional pull of this from what you feel is the more accurate and realistic sound - in short, letting your heart rule your head. Therefore the LP12 will 'win'.

I am more than happy to be proved wrong, though! Keep us posted of developments.

Marco.

Mike
08-09-2008, 15:29
Given the circumstances under which you acquired your LP12, and the beautiful plinth you've put it in

Huh?... :confused:

Looks like a perfectly standard Afromosa plinth to me. Exactly the same as the one I had in fact.

Marco
08-09-2008, 15:32
Mikey,

Tim had a bespoke 'limed oak' plinth made - check out the pictures on his website, although perhaps this is no longer current...

Marco.

Mike
08-09-2008, 15:38
Oh that one!

I ignored it coz I don't like it. :ner:

Marco
08-09-2008, 21:00
It's a personal taste thing, I guess :)

Marco.

Sid and Coke
09-09-2008, 15:02
I know what you mean, mass produced painted aluminium and moulded black hard rubber is so much more unusual, unique and and organic isn't it . ( :D ).

Onto much more serious things;

I have got the OEM rubber mat fiitted, on top of that i have the OEM Technics slip mat. I have a 2mm thick headshell spacer between my DL304 on the OEM Technics Headshell. I have the VTA adjuster set and locked at the '0' setting and still i can't get the top surface of the DL304 to sit parallel to the record surface, which accoding to the Cartridge instructions is correct.

The DL304 doesn't seem to be a particularly unusually shaped or dimensioned Cartrdidge. how do you guys get on in this respect ?

Sid and Coke
09-09-2008, 15:51
A picture paints a thouand words ( even if its a badly taken picture :) )

http://imageevent.com/sidandcoke/technicssl1200snaps


.

Peter Stockwell
09-09-2008, 18:33
I have got the OEM rubber mat fiitted, on top of that i have the OEM Technics slip mat. I have a 2mm thick headshell spacer between my DL304 on the OEM Technics Headshell. I have the VTA adjuster set and locked at the '0' setting and still i can't get the top surface of the DL304 to sit parallel to the record surface, which accoding to the Cartridge instructions is correct.



is the arm "arse" downwards or "arse" upwards ?

Peter

Marco
09-09-2008, 18:54
Hi Tim,


I know what you mean, mass produced painted aluminium and moulded black hard rubber is so much more unusual, unique and and organic isn't it . ( :D )


LOL. Don't include me in the list of not appreciating the 'beauty' of your limed oak plinth! I quite like it, although I'd probably have something like maple. The 1210's aesthetic design is much more along the lines of 'functionality', which is where I feel it excels.


I have got the OEM rubber mat fiitted, on top of that i have the OEM Technics slip mat.


Jeezuz :no:

Never use the slip mat for hi-fi use - it kills the sound! You need something that grips the platter, and which the record 'adheres' to. Slip mats are for DJs doing 'scratching' - nothing else!!

If you're struggling to get VTA right with your 304, simply use more mats until you get the arm level, spindle clearance permitting. You will need to obtain some extra mats though to facilitate your experimenting. Any on-line Technics stockist sells stock thin rubber mats pretty cheaply, so use those. I need to use three mats (Isoplatmat, Herbie's, and stock thick rubber mat) to optimise VTA with the 103.

With the three mats in use I've got just enough room and no more to fit a record securely, but that doesn't matter - what matters is this arrangement allows correct set-up of the cartridge, and thus optimum performance. The end result is the deck sounds superb. So whatever you have to do to get VTA right, do it.

Marco.

Sid and Coke
09-09-2008, 19:35
is the arm "arse" downwards or "arse" upwards ?

Peter

Arse up, nose down.



Never use the slip mat for hi-fi use - it kills the sound! You need something that grips the platter, and which the record 'adheres' to. Slip mats are for DJs doing 'scratching' - nothing else!!

If you're struggling to get VTA right with your 304, simply use more mats until you get the arm level, spindle clearance permitting. You will need to obtain some extra mats though to facilitate your experimenting. Any on-line Technics stockist sells stock thin rubber mats pretty cheaply, so use those. I need to use three mats (Isoplatmat, Herbie's, and stock thick rubber mat) to optimise VTA with the 103.

With the three mats in use I've got just enough room and no more to fit a record securely, but that doesn't matter - what matters is this arrangement allows correct set-up of the cartridge, and thus optimum performance. The end result is the deck sounds superb. So whatever you have to do to get VTA right, do it.

Marco.

Just had a rumage and found another rubber mat, it is a very old one and even had a Technics logo on it :) .

Decided to buy another headshell and very possibly another Denon DL103. i love then carts this will be #3 ! Unfortunatley i can only afford a cooking base model version (again).

I played a record that i am very familiar with this afternoon, ( Coldplay - A Rush of Blood to the Head) and was pretty disappointed if i'm being honest There were great swathes of the whole album that was lacking something very big, possibly that mid range fruitiness that comes with an LP12, it was quite sobering. This was the first album that i've played on the Technics so far that has disappointed if i'm being honest.

note to self;
Reality check time. The Technics is a stock item that has cost £270 with a online price of circa £ 380 new , If my Linn LP12 got lost/stolen/burnt ( :) ) today it would probably cost me 'about' £1500 - £2000 to replace it even via online/mail order discount.

so Im not too disheartened.

Right must dash some of us have got to go to work now... L8r...

scoobs
09-09-2008, 20:58
Hi Tim,

Jeezuz :no:

Never use the slip mat for hi-fi use - it kills the sound! You need something that grips the platter, and which the record 'adheres' to. Slip mats are for DJs doing 'scratching' - nothing else!!

Marco.

The 1200/10 should come with the black technics logo'd felt 'slip' mat and a thin translucent 'scratch' mat, both of these should be put away in the drawer pronto.

Marco, I noticed that the achromat slips very easily on the sds isoplatmat (as bad as the stock mat), so I peeled off the thin black neoprene layer from the herbies and placed it between them, they are nice and solid now.

I've also added a nice heavy clearlight rdc puck just to make sure :eyebrows:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/indypepa/hi-fi-again-005.jpg

Tim, I have a spare herbies way excellent 2 foam mat and the technics 'audiophile' heavy mat if your interested, they may may work well as a pair, otherwise you would be wise to bite the bullet and get an achromat and/or an sds, or the cheaper origin live jobbie, they may be an upgrade for the sondek too if you decide to chuck the 1200.

Peter Stockwell
10-09-2008, 05:23
Scoobs,

Is that a sand box for your SL1210 ?

Peter

Peter Stockwell
10-09-2008, 05:29
Tim,

I'm using an SDS isoplatmat and a stock mat, Sumiko headshell. Cartridge is an MP11 boron, I have a spare if you happen to be interested, and the arm is parallel to the deck with the VTA dial at 3.6 mm.

Peter

Marco
10-09-2008, 06:44
Nick,


Marco, I noticed that the achromat slips very easily on the sds isoplatmat (as bad as the stock mat), so I peeled off the thin black neoprene layer from the herbies and placed it between them, they are nice and solid now.


Yep, good idea. You really don't want anything slipping about. Double sided tape is another solution, and you don't have to trash your Herbie's ;)

I dig da puck, man :smoking:

Marco.

Marco
10-09-2008, 07:34
Tim,


Decided to buy another headshell and very possibly another Denon DL103. i love then carts this will be #3 ! Unfortunatley i can only afford a cooking base model version (again).


The 103, when set-up and partnered correctly, has a uniquely musical sound that in my experience is rarely (if ever) found in modern moving coil cartridges. The good thing this time is that you'll be using it on a T/T and tonearm which are much more suited to it than your previous LP12/Akito combination.

Which headshell did you go for? To get the 103 to really sing you'll need about 15g of added mass on a 'normal' headshell, such as the stock one you're using, or less if it's a Sumiko/Zu Supreme type. I've experimented a lot with how much mass the 103 needs and it was only when I bought my AT LH-18 headshell (which weighs 18g) that it really started to sing. Trust me, anything less than 18g (not including mounting hardware) is not enough!

Also, if you're going to use a 103, you'll have to look at getting a brass counterweight balance such as the one in my avatar, or on Nick's or Peter's decks. This not only increases the arm's effective mass to a level that better suits the 103's requirements but also directly couples the counterweight to the armtube, doing away with the plastic 'spacer' which is fixed to the inside of the stock counterweight balance, and this (for whatever reason) quite significantly improves performance. John (Thrunobulaxx) will do one for you and they're not expensive.

If you really want to hear what the cartridge is capable of (and it's pretty special) then this is the only way it will happen. Like the old saying goes: if you're going to do a job, do it right...


I played a record that i am very familiar with this afternoon, ( Coldplay - A Rush of Blood to the Head) and was pretty disappointed if i'm being honest There were great swathes of the whole album that was lacking something very big, possibly that mid range fruitiness that comes with an LP12, it was quite sobering. This was the first album that i've played on the Technics so far that has disappointed if i'm being honest.


There could be a number of factors at play here: either the 1210 is simply more neutral sounding and revealing of the recording, or like you say, the deck is still in stock form and has its limitations - or deep down you still prefer the way your LP12 plays this music. It's all very well striving for 'accuracy', but sometimes the 'truth', sonically, isn't as palatable as a lightly coloured version of it. At the end of the day hi-fi is about creating a sound that you enjoy and which connects you with the music. No real notion of 'accuracy' in hi-fi exists.

However, knowing what a stock 1210 and a modified one sounds like, I can tell you that you've got a long way to go still to hear what the deck is truly capable of. If you persevere and upgrade things bit by bit you'll be rewarded with a superb turntable that will compete with the very best available today.


Reality check time. The Technics is a stock item that has cost £270 with a online price of circa £ 380 new , If my Linn LP12 got lost/stolen/burnt ( :) ) today it would probably cost me 'about' £1500 - £2000 to replace it even via online/mail order discount.

so Im not too disheartened.


Yep, don't be. One thing though - never judge the 1210 on price, either new or second-hand, because it's simply a fallacy. The only reason the 1210 is as cheap to buy today is because of economies of scale, i.e. the decks are mass-produced down to a fine art by a major Japanese manufacturer with massive global resources. Direct-drive mechanisms of the quality in a 1210 are hugely expensive to manufacture.

Technics (National Panasonic) have been making the Quartz controlled direct-drive mechanism since the 70s, so the tooling and production procedures have long since been paid for. If a UK manufacturer were to embark on such a project today and produce something of equivalent quality you'd be looking at a price tag of thousands of pounds. I kid you not!

So always bear this in mind and judge the 1210 accordingly as a high-end turntable, with its performance being held back somewhat by the relative poor quality of its ancillary items. Sort that out, and you end up with a T/T which is a veritable giant-killer... :eyebrows:

Marco.

Sid and Coke
10-09-2008, 09:00
Hi Marco,

I have not decided which Headshell or Cartridge to buy as yet. I decided to get something else just before i left for work last night, today is decision and purchase day. I'm not certain that the DL304 is ideally suited to the Technics arm, so it only seems fair to get something that is better suited to give the Technics a fair trial. I can then refit the DL304 to the Linn and do some A - B comparisons.

Headshells I am considering are another stock Technics item , they seem as good as any other to my eyes and were obviously made for the the arm by the OEM.

I am also considering the Sumiko HS-12, which is top of my price range at circa £30 . Good quality and VFM is what I'm after at the moment not an specialist/exclusive boutique badge & price tag to try and impress the neighbours.

I've only really settled on these two as i have found them with minimal searching, the sun has just popped its head out from behind the rain clouds and i have things to do in the garden today so can't spend all day at my computer ( like i normally do when I'm off shift :) ) .

Marco
10-09-2008, 09:24
Hi Marco,

I have not decided which Headshell or Cartridge to buy as yet. I decided to get something else just before i left for work last night, today is decision and purchase day. I'm not certain that the DL304 is ideally suited to the Technics arm, so it only seems fair to get something that is better suited to give the Technics a fair trial. I can then refit the DL304 to the Linn and do some A - B comparisons.

Headshells I am considering are another stock Technics item , they seem as good as any other to my eyes and were obviously made for the the arm by the OEM.

I am also considering the Sumiko HS-12, which is top of my price range at circa £30 . Good quality and VFM is what I'm after at the moment not an specialist/exclusive boutique badge & price tag to try and impress the neighbours.


Indeed. And if you had neighbours who were impressed by a tonearm headshell then I would be extremely worried! ;)

No, rest assured that the Sumiko or Zu Supreme (shown below) are more expensive due to their superior construction:

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=LPGZHEAD&Category_Code=HEADSHELLS

I have one and can vouch for its quality.

When you get one of these (or the Sumiko) and compare it visually in terms of build quality to the stock Technics item there is no comparison. Don't let 'what the OEM made' influence you when it comes to disposable ancillary items such as headshells. These are simply mass-produced by the bucket load and made to a price, unlike more important core components of the deck (such as the motor unit) where no expense has been spared.

From experience, Tim, I can tell you that the 103 will not perform properly on an 'ordinary' headshell; it likes rigidity and mass. The Sumiko and Zu weigh in at 12g, so you will still need to add about another 6g (say with your existing brass plate) for optimal results, but the effect of doing so will surpass what you'll achieve by mass-loading the stock headshell. The added bonus with the Zu or Sumiko is you get some high quality headshell leads thrown in for good measure! And those definitely make a difference.

The decision is yours! :)

Marco.

P.S The supplementary counterweight balance, as discussed, will be posted to you tomorrow.

Sid and Coke
10-09-2008, 10:20
I got a Sumiko HS-12. I liked the look of the Zu and it was similar price , but I want it now ! and couldn't be arsed with shipping from USA.

As far as additional weight at the headshell goes i have no problem there as i still have my 'Aerospace metal Alloy' ( :) ) Headshell weight that i made previous. It is 5g plus extra long SS fixing bolts.

Now to choose a cartridge...

Marco
10-09-2008, 10:37
Nice one, Tim :)

The cheapest place to buy a standard DL-103 is from Hifi X:

http://www.hifix.co.uk/sku_list.lasso?red=1&dept_id=65&dept=b799d26ec1cb63d33d77d9fd9a9766f9&majorg=07e9c8c49ebbd9c1e3c3ef1eae70c2a2d619e597ba1 4988a&minorg=40afd4605a22996e&minor_id=&major_id=29

Or if they're out of stock, Harrow Audio:

http://www.harrowaudiohifi.co.uk/products.asp?Parent=C91&

Failing that, try Mantra:

http://www.mantra-audio.co.uk/

All are good. I've used them all at some point! :smoking:

Marco.

Sid and Coke
10-09-2008, 10:54
Coil or a fairly decent MM , it's a tough one.... I seem to recall that the DL110 sits fairly tall in the headshell last time i had one, so I would consider a DL160 just becausew I've not tried one before. The AT440ML looks pretty good on paper and also has the same stylus profile as the Shure V15VxMR which i loved.

Nagaoka MP11 Boron , Peter....

Marco
10-09-2008, 11:01
Coil for me, especially a 103, given the deck and headshell you're going to use.

However if you fancy a top-notch MM that's classier and more refined sounding than the usual Ortofon/Goldring/AT fayre, check out the new range of Nagaokas at Musonic Styli:

Click on 'Cartridges', then on 'Nagaoka':

http://www.musonic.co.uk/

I've heard the MP-150 - it's a belter! Very different from the 103, though...

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
10-09-2008, 11:57
Tim,

I have a V15 type IV that I'm going to install in the rig at some stage, once I get the JICO super analogue stylus for it. I was going to faff around with the 4 combinations of MP11 boron, but decided against it, so one of them is spare, PM me if you are interested.

The PS1200 psu solidifies the bass of the SL1210 clears the midrange and also lets more treble energy through, the stock incarnation of the SL1210 does tend to sound harmonically lacking. The Headshell and Cardas wires go someway in alleviating this.

regards

Sid and Coke
10-09-2008, 13:39
Sumiko HS-12 and a vanilla Denon DL103 ( #3 in 5 years :doh: ) it is then.

Hopefully they will be here before the weekend.

Marco
10-09-2008, 13:49
Way hey! Congrats.

Prepare to hear the 103 as you've never heard it before... ;)

Marco.

scoobs
10-09-2008, 18:10
Scoobs,

Is that a sand box for your SL1210 ?

Peter

Yes Peter it is. the stock feet have been swapped out for RDC cones and the deck sits on a slab of granite on top of silver sand...:mental: I decided to max out on isolation and wrap it up in a room friendly package...an uber plinth, or a breadbin? You decide.
:lolsign:

Marco
10-09-2008, 18:28
You know fine well it's a bloody breadbin! :lol:

Marco.

scoobs
10-09-2008, 19:01
Watch it Marco, I've had enough of your nonsense, I'm getting a cob on now!
For your information mate this plinth certainly isn't half baked, it significantly lowers the noise flour and the music bursts forth with vibrancy and loaf.

Marco
10-09-2008, 19:35
LOL. Chill, dude. I was pulling yer leg!

Maybe I should have put one of these after my post? ';)'

Marco.

scoobs
10-09-2008, 19:49
LOL. Chill, dude. I was pulling yer leg!

Maybe I should have put one of these after my post? ';)'

Marco.

:lol: I was actually pulling your leg Marco, notice the daft double entendres, a cob is a welsh colloquialism for a specialty bread :eyebrows:

I thought the lack of emotioncons would be funny (in a deadpan kind of way)...:doh:

:ner:

Marco
10-09-2008, 19:53
I wasn't entirely sure, but I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt! :mental: :eyebrows:

Btw, what makes your breadbin sound best Kingsmill or Hovis, or do they both make the sound a bit 'grainy'?

:lol:

Marco.

scoobs
10-09-2008, 20:03
Nah, none of them. I just consider myself Sunblest to have such an eye for aesthetic design.

Marco
10-09-2008, 20:13
Hehe.... :eyebrows:

Marco.

Sid and Coke
13-09-2008, 21:12
Well marco credit where it's due, there is no doubt that the Sumiko Headshell seems to be better all round than the stock Technics item. I'm talking here from a pure materials, look/feel pov, pitty that they didn't incorporate a finger lift into the design, rather than get the end user to fit a seperate item. The head leads seem a bit posh with their litz style construction.

The flat plate type design is certainly easier from a mounting 'stuff' angle, the technics OEM item is flat underneath and curved on top, probably good for strength and anti resonance , but not so practical in a real world use sense, especially for those of who like to experiment a bit and 'bodge stuff on', ( like headshell weights , etc ) .

I can see that I'm going to a have to get files and drills out again to fashion some sort of spacer to go between cartridge and headshell.

This is becoming a big downer for me, that fact that one can't just fit a pretty much standard sized cartridge into a standard headshell and get the thing to sit properly without resorting to loading up the platter with the best part of a centimetre of platter mats. This deck did start out life as a standard 'Audiophile/Hi-Fi' unit didn't it , before the DJ's discovered its merits....

Marco
13-09-2008, 22:19
Nice one on the Sumiko, Tim. I told you it was worth it. Have you compared it yet sonically to the Technics headshell?

And has your 103 arrived yet?

The problems you're experiencing with optimising VTA is only because the arm was designed to be used with 'higher bodied' cartridges than the 103. I don't think Peter has encountered any problems with his Grado...

I agree, though, it would be nice if the arm could be lowered further than the current design will allow. However it's much more user friendly than other arms to be able to raise and lower it with a rotating wheel, even when a record is playing! Yes I've done that a few times :eyebrows:

Persevere with the mats and your new headshell and all will be well :)

Oh and lets have some shots of your 103/Sumiko in situ in due course when they're set-up.

Marco.

Sid and Coke
13-09-2008, 23:56
Nice one on the Sumiko, Tim. I told you it was worth it.
You did and it was. Don't be thinking that i'll be following all of your advice though, you 'do' wires & cables' and other such nonsense don't you ;) :lolsign:


Have you compared it yet sonically to the Technics headshell?
No I haven't and probably won't either. It has certain design features that i prefer over the Technics and that is good enough for me. Had to hacksaw an extra slot in the plastic o/h tool though to take the extra spigot.

And has your 103 arrived yet?

Yes it arrived yesterday, had to wait for the Sumiko to arrive today though, then went out for the whole day to the RAF Leuchars low cloud and rain show - the Runway piano keys are 1000m away from my back door so not much point trying to seriously listen to music today :), which is why I'm messing about with it at midnight on a Saturday...



The problems you're experiencing with optimising VTA is only because the arm was designed to be used with 'higher bodied' cartridges than the 103. I don't think Peter has encountered any problems with his Grado...

The problems 'we' experience :), and they are problems, and the solutions are inelegant bodge-ups.....

I've spent more time at the vice in my shed armed with a plethora of files, hacksaws and bits of ali alloy, plastic and paxolin making little spacers....

and i'll be back in there tomorrow , trying to sort this one out. Two rubber mats and a felt one isn't much better either.




Persevere with the mats and your new headshell and all will be well :)

Oh and lets have some shots of your 103/Sumiko in situ in due course when they're set-up.

Marco.

I took some shots , but the artificial light was bad, i'll have to wait until daylight tomorrow. The new lot is fitted though and making music.

here's one piccy though , I did make one new spacer but as you may know if the spacer is too thick you can't use the plastic tool any more, so i came up with this solution, it works rather well . The sumiko headshell design makes using this method very easy to do as it lies dead flat on the graph paper . ( picture (http://imageevent.com/sidandcoke/technicssl1200snaps?p=7&n=1&m=-1&c=3&l=0&w=2&s=0&z=2) )

Marco
14-09-2008, 08:52
I think you need to invest in an extra thick Technics rubber mat (available from any DJ shop) and do away with two of your thinner ones to eliminate the inelegance you speak of. It's all good fun though, Tim, so keep playing! :eyebrows:

Here are couple of set-up tips, if you haven't thought of them already. Remove the little rubber washer attached to the bayonet fixing on the Sumiko. This seems to decouple the arm better from the effects of vibration and results in improved sound quality, giving better 'focus' and detail retrieval.

When adjusting azimuth (apart from using the hex bolt adjustment on the Sumiko which tends to cause excessive movement from left to right) you'll notice there is a small amount of 'play', allowing you to twist the headshell slightly in the arm.

Place the plastic stylus cover on the 103 when it's fitted on the tonearm (you'll notice that it has a flat section at the front) and sit it on a record. If azimuth is out you'll immediately notice that the flat plastic section of the stylus cover does not sit properly flat on the record surface, therefore simply twist the headshell slightly until the stylus cover sits flat on the record, slip the cover gently off the cartridge - then, bingo, azimuth will be bang on!

You can also do the same thing with cartridges which have those flat plastic stylus covers fixed to the cartridge body, such as on the DL-110, 160, etc.

Marco.

Primalsea
14-09-2008, 11:13
I don't know if such a thing has been mentioned before but I have managed to get relatively average tonearms (stock SL1210??) sounding fantastic just by slitting a Scaletrix tire and clipping on the arm close to the headshell. It just kills resonances. Also stuffing the tube with sponge foam is worthwhile but I imagine most people have done this already.

Also if you goto a craft shop you can by thin A4 sheets of foam, Neoprene if you're lucky, sticking this to the headshell or cartridge body can do wonders.

Just a few things I have had success with over the years.....:)

Sid and Coke
14-09-2008, 12:33
I knocked up a new headshell spacer this morning. I used a flat piece of perspex. The perspex is drilled and threaded and the cartridge is then firmly fixed to the spacer. I then assembled the cart/spacer to the sumiko headshell using some long bolts, before squeezing the whole assy together after first aligning the cartridge. It sounds pretty good in the other room whilst I type this. I think i can happily live with the sounds that I'm getting at the moment. Probably feel a whole lot better about the Technics as i personalise it more over the coming months...

a few piccies:
http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/technicssl1200snaps/websize/Sumiko%20spacer%20head%20on.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/technicssl1200snaps/websize/Sumiko%20spacer.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/technicssl1200snaps/websize/Sumiko%20set%20up%202.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/technicssl1200snaps/websize/Sumiko%20set%20up.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/technicssl1200snaps/large/SL1200-Sumiko-DL103.jpg

Marco
14-09-2008, 13:07
Looking good, Tim, and if I may say, expertly set-up! :)

It seems to be sounding good as well, which is what it's all about.

All you need now is a bit more mass on the headshell. The acrylic plate will sort out your VTA issues, but won't add the extra mass you need. I'm sure you'll design a suitable brass plate (or whatever) in due course.

Was the little supplementary counterweight balance any use?

Marco.

Sid and Coke
14-09-2008, 13:52
Was the little supplementary counterweight balance any use?

Marco.

Definately, thank you ! The arm would not have balanced out without it. I've been in touch with John ref a nice brass one.

I'm flat stoney broke at the moment though, so will have to slum it for a while.

I'd forgotten just how much i liked the DL103 , it's bloody amazing for the price. This is my 3rd one now, however every time i stick a DL103 on the end i start enjoying my music more. I should stop messing about with other Carts , but know i won't. Cartridges are small, high tech and jewel like, they attract me like a Jackdaw to a dangly earring :)

I'm selling my Linn. I can't aford to have that amount of money sitting in a box upstairs doing nothing and the Technics has enough inbuilt performance just as a stock item to warrant its inclusion in my system. It has scope for useful affordable upgrades too.

My DL103 has about 2 hours use now and is sounding great to my easily pleased ears.....

Marco
14-09-2008, 22:21
Hi Tim,


I've been in touch with John ref a nice brass one.


Excellent. When you've got the dosh and get hold of one I'm sure you'll hear a difference with the brass c/w - it just seems to add more weight and authority, and 'purpose' to the music. For me, it's a no-brainer, and there are apparently a few others who agree! ;)


I'd forgotten just how much i liked the DL103 , it's bloody amazing for the price. This is my 3rd one now, however every time i stick a DL103 on the end i start enjoying my music more. I should stop messing about with other Carts , but know i won't. Cartridges are small, high tech and jewel like, they attract me like a Jackdaw to a dangly earring


LOL. I know exactly what you mean; I'm the same with cartridges. I also feel the same way as you about the 103 - it's just so God darn musical sounding, when it's set-up properly and partnered sympathetically. And for me no other cartridge I've heard at any price does bass like it. The 103's bass is so deep, tuneful, and with a syncopating rhythmic quality which propels music along that's just so bloody addictive!

Yes, there are umpteen much more expensive cartridges that have a sweeter sounding more revealing top end, but to my ears they trade bass weight and natural warmth for forensic detail retrieval and with it give a cold, clinical, sound (almost CD-like in its 'glassy' clarity) that I personally don't think accurately reflects the sound of real voices and instruments. It's a soulless rendition of music, devoid of real emotion which classic cartridges like the DL-103 (and Ortofon SPU) have in spades.


I'm selling my Linn. I can't aford to have that amount of money sitting in a box upstairs doing nothing and the Technics has enough inbuilt performance just as a stock item to warrant its inclusion in my system. It has scope for useful affordable upgrades too.


I totally understand and I would do the exact same in your position. I honestly think you've made the right decision, Tim, not just from a financial point of view but also from a musical perspective. The LP12 is a nice deck to listen to if you're seduced by its inherent colorations, but the SL-1200/1210 is a far more neutral sounding and accurate device that will reward you much more in the long term, particularly if you have the arm Cardas rewired and/or add the separate KAB PSU, as Peter, Scoobs and I have done.

Then you really will have a top-notch T/T on your hands! Enjoy and please continue to give us your thoughts as your cartridge runs in :smoking:

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
15-09-2008, 06:54
I'm selling my Linn. I can't aford to have that amount of money sitting in a box upstairs doing nothing and the Technics has enough inbuilt performance just as a stock item to warrant its inclusion in my system. It has scope for useful affordable upgrades too.


Another one bites the dust! Amazing innit, the nec plus ultra of British Hifi decks humbled by a crap DJ deck ;).

My deck is going into storage, and the arm is going to fettled by J7, this week. It won't be back in service until the end of October. I'll have to make do with streaming from iTunes, via Stan's DAC. (and, tbh, it's very good, I can see a future with just streaming and vinyl)

Marco
15-09-2008, 22:27
Another one bites the dust! Amazing innit, the nec plus ultra of British Hifi decks humbled by a crap DJ deck ;)


Indeed, Peter. And how many more would bite the bust if more people got to hear what a modified 1210 is capable of? I know Tim's is still pretty standard, though...

Basically if you love vinyl, and you're not a badge snob or seduced by the LP12's 'romantic' coloration, then choosing a 1210 instead is not a difficult decision.

Marco.

Sid and Coke
16-09-2008, 00:30
Indeed, Peter. And how many more would bite the bust if more people got to hear what a modified 1210 is capable of? I know Tim's is still pretty standard, though...

Basically if you love vinyl, and you're not a badge snob or seduced by the LP12's 'romantic' coloration, then choosing a 1210 instead is not a difficult decision.

Marco.

Although if i don't get a decent offer for my LP12 pretty soon it'll be the Technics that gets the boot - I ain't fussy they both play music perfectly well to my ears. I'm pretty sure i will get most of my money back for the SL1200 .
I've been happily using the DL103 for the last couple of days, its probably got 'about' 20 -30 album sides use on it by now. This morning I quickly refitted my DL304 - ( 'cause i got a removable headshell now and i can :D ) .

Bloody hell , the DL304 is one seriously good cartridge. I didn't think that the Technics arm suited it ( on paper) and that a DL103 would be better, now I'm not so sure, that little golden hued scratcher digs deep...

Marco
16-09-2008, 07:34
Although if i don't get a decent offer for my LP12 pretty soon it'll be the Technics that gets the boot...


LOL. And abandon your intriguing project just as it's getting interesting? Come on, man, where's your sense of adventure! :eyebrows:

Seriously though, Tim. Let me assure you of two things: 1) someone will buy your LP12 soon - LP12s always sell eventually. Have you advertised it on all the forums? (I haven't noticed it here), or on Ebay?

2) (And this is the important bit) from experience of long-term ownership of both turntables I know that the sonic potential of your Technics when further modified completely outweighs anything your LP12 is capable of.

Therefore even though you say that "I ain't fussy they both play music perfectly well to my ears", that's only because the playing field is fairly level at the moment. But if you have the arm rewired on the Technics and add the off-board PSU, trust me, that situation will change dramatically!

The decision is yours but I would think long and hard before doing what in my opinion is a backwards step. See the adventure through, Tim; the rewards will be worth it.


I've been happily using the DL103 for the last couple of days, its probably got 'about' 20 -30 album sides use on it by now. This morning I quickly refitted my DL304 - ( 'cause i got a removable headshell now and i can.


Hehe... I know. And you want to abandon this facility? ;)


Bloody hell , the DL304 is one seriously good cartridge. I didn't think that the Technics arm suited it ( on paper) and that a DL103 would be better, now I'm not so sure, that little golden hued scratcher digs deep...

Yep, I've had a DL-304 before so I know what it does. It's an excellent cartridge. The 304 has a better midrange and more delicacy and fine detail retrieval at the top end, but it doesn't have the sheer 'balls' of the 103, particularly in the bass, and therefore doesn't drive music along with the same rhythmic intensity: the 103 has real 'soul'. I don't think the 304 has this trait or the 'fun factor'; it's a cartridge which appeals to the head more than the heart.

As with all in hi-fi, everything is a trade-off, so it's a matter of choosing your compromises!

Marco.

Sid and Coke
18-09-2008, 10:38
I just picked up a new vial of main bearing oil. Thought i'd give it a bit of a drink.
The picture in the manual isn't exactly clear to me, does the bearing/spindle actually lift out leaving a housing well ( like my Linn ).

Basically, how do you change the oil ? ( step by step please ).

Mike
18-09-2008, 13:53
Basically, how do you change the oil ? ( step by step please ).

Step1 - You don't! :lolsign:

Marco
18-09-2008, 16:21
LOL. You can, of course, Tim.

Peter (user34) might be the man to ask as he's had the platter off his deck recently to fit the KAB PSU. Have a look at his thread where it shows the inside of the deck and see if it offers any clues.

J7 re-oiled my deck for me and added his 'extra-slippy' bearing oil, which incidentally is highly recommended. Unfortunately I forget exactly what he done.

To do the job properly though you'll have to flush out the old oil before refilling with new stuff, as considering yours is an older deck the current oil is liable to be a bit manky with dirt and debris collected through time. It's a bit like changing oil in a car.

If you're struggling I'll put some feelers out and find out what the score is :)

Marco.

Sid and Coke
18-09-2008, 16:53
Basically I put a few drops onto where the picture indicated, then I played it a while, so old would mix with new a bit , then mopped up any excess with a tissue and repeated this process several times thoughout the day, ( without being too obsesive about it ).

Marco
18-09-2008, 17:02
Hi Tim,

So you managed to remove the platter... How's it done? It would be useful for reference purposes if you posted step-by-step how you done it :)

Marco.

Sid and Coke
18-09-2008, 18:17
You being serious :confused:

Remove the platter mats, put a finger into each of the two holes and lift striaght up. The reverse of how you fitted the platter after it arrived in the box... (iirc it was 3 weeks or so ago now and a lot has happened in that time :D )

muffinman
18-09-2008, 18:21
J7 re-oiled my deck for me and added his 'extra-slippy' bearing oil, which incidentally is highly recommended. Unfortunately I forget exactly what he done.




LOL - perhaps he just said he'd done it

Marco
18-09-2008, 21:02
You being serious

Remove the platter mats, put a finger into each of the two holes and lift striaght up. The reverse of how you fitted the platter after it arrived in the box... (iirc it was 3 weeks or so ago now and a lot has happened in that time :D )


LOL. It might seem like I wasn't, but I've tired that and mine doesn't seem to want to move. Not to worry, it'll be a long time until the bearings need oiled again!

Gareth, I observed the man 'in action' ;)

Although obviously not well enough to remember what he done! :lol:

Marco.

Marco
19-09-2008, 07:34
Btw, Tim, what's this mince you've been writing on PFM?


However at some point in the future i would like to buy a brand new Linn Sondek LP12 fresh out of the the box just like you. It is what i aspire to in the future.


ROFL! ;)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
19-09-2008, 08:59
but I've tried that and mine doesn't seem to want to move.

It 'sticks" a bit but a nice tug and it comes free, easy enough.

I have nearly everything packed away now, but last night i had time for 2 sides. The Kab PS is really a top buy, even at low volumes you can hear much further into the mix.

And to think on the naim forum, people want to spend £2000+ on majik :confused: :scratch: :mental:

But hey it's good for scotland, I suppose.

Marco
19-09-2008, 09:10
Thanks for that, Peter. I'll bear it in mind next time I need access to the bearings.

Linn charge 'fantasy' prices for gullible badge snobs - sad but true. It's this sort of nonsense mentality that we're up against!

Marco.

Mike
20-09-2008, 17:02
"However at some point in the future i would like to buy a brand new Linn Sondek LP12 fresh out of the the box just like you. It is what i aspire to in the future."

Been there, done that, won't be doing it again. :)

Sid and Coke
20-09-2008, 17:13
Btw, Tim, what's this mince you've been writing on PFM?



ROFL! ;)

Marco.


Its the truth, i have no doubt that i will probably own another Linn Sondek LP12 at some point in the future. It will more than likely be when i have spent some time effort and money getting the Technics to how i like it , then look back through rose tinted specs and say to myself - I wonder how an LP12 would compare to this.. and then the cycle starts again. We all do it , you, me everybody who is into Hi-fi. I think its all part of the fun , not a bad thing. A bad thing woudl be to say that item 'X' is better than Item 'Y' and anybody who disagree's is obviously a deaf idiot, now that just wouldn't be right...

Anyway, I spent this morning building a bespoke concrete support plinth for my LP12 direct replacement. I used paving slabs and it works rather well :)

Picture 1 (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/gashcarstuffhosting/huge/GSX600F%20-1.JPG)

picture 2 (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/gashcarstuffhosting/huge/GSX600F%20-2.jpg)

.

Mike
20-09-2008, 17:24
Anyway, I spent this morning building a bespoke concrete support plinth for my LP12 direct replacement. I used paving slabs and it works rather well :) Picture 1 (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/gashcarstuffhosting/huge/GSX600F%20-1.JPG)picture 2 (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/gashcarstuffhosting/huge/GSX600F%20-2.jpg)

That looks suspiciously like s Suzuki GSX600 'Teapot'. :)

Sid and Coke
20-09-2008, 17:32
That looks suspiciously like s Suzuki GSX600 'Teapot'. :)

It looks suscpiciously like an old tatty GSX 600F teapot. However I bought it off one one of my current work buddies, who has been a mate of mine for about 16 years.
He passed his test just over 1 year ago and treated himself to a 900 Fireblade a week or so ago. I've helped him do a few servicing jobs to this bike over the last year at work and know that not only has he looked after it , but has also fixed lots of little thngs that needed doing. It had an MOT 3 weeks ago, when a new back tyre was fitted ( £100 ), so i thought that at £300 it was worth a punt.

Just need to pass my test now so i can ride it... I've booked a course for October - no pressure then and also S&C enters into another money sucking pit :D

Marco
21-09-2008, 09:40
Tim,

Congrats on the 'teapot', btw! Make sure you buy some shexy leathers to go with it and you'll be irresistible! :eyebrows:


Its the truth, i have no doubt that i will probably own another Linn Sondek LP12 at some point in the future. It will more than likely be when i have spent some time effort and money getting the Technics to how i like it , then look back through rose tinted specs and say to myself - I wonder how an LP12 would compare to this.. and then the cycle starts again.


It's your time and money, mate, so have a ball. I suspect though that once getting the Technics 'up to speed' and hearing how very serious that can sound any such desires highlighted above will be diluted to the point of insignificance ;)


We all do it , you, me everybody who is into Hi-fi. I think its all part of the fun , not a bad thing. A bad thing woudl be to say that item 'X' is better than Item 'Y' and anybody who disagree's is obviously a deaf idiot, now that just wouldn't be right...


For sure; it always pays to be open-minded with hi-fi and I doubt anyone here would portray the closed mindedness you describe. However, I research and audition things very carefully before buying equipment and once I decide that something is better than what I've used before I never go back. The KAB 1210 is a case in point. The only thing I'd replace it with is an EMT. I've had numerous LP12s in the past, some highly specified ones amongst them, and they were all significantly inferior to the KAB 1210 I use now.

Mark my words, if you ever see me selling the Techinics and buying an LP12 (or any other deck I've owned in the past) you can feel free to slag my ass big time, and I will run stark naked around Wrexham sporting nothing but a Santa hat and a smile! :lolsign:

Of course I would warn all children and people of a nervous disposition well beforehand...

Marco.

Sid and Coke
30-09-2008, 00:03
Oh well , thats the Linn gone.
The buyer ( and his music loving Hi-Fi owning girlfriend :respect: ) popped around yesterday afternoon to pick up in person. We spent a good couple of hours going over the various aspects of the deck, with some close inspections of important bits. I'm pretty sure that Kev my buyer was more than happy with his purchase but i wanted to demonstrate that everything was at least as advertised, if not better.

Unfortunately and i'm sure that mostly down to the Ortofon Pro S DJ cart that i'd fitted. The Linn in my system wasn't performing as i knew it had in the past. I couldn't get the Ortofon set up absolutely perfectly. Anyway I at least managed to prove that the wires and controls were working as they should and with the use of my strobe light and disk demonstrate that the speed was spot on, if its turning at the right speed and all the wires are all connected up correctly then the rest is purely down to setup and support on an LP12.

So , back to the Technics. Do i feel let down... absolutely not. After a month of using the Technics, then goin back to the Linn for a day, then going back to the Technics again today, i am a happy that i have got a good record player that i reckon can hold its own with the best.

John is hopefully finishing off my new brass counterweight even as we speak, and the new advenure can start in earnest .

Next planned.. modifications for me will probably be an arm damper.

Peter Stockwell
30-09-2008, 07:05
Mine's going into hibernation, and I still haven't found the time to get the arm off for fettling. Glad that you sold the LP12 to a good home, I once, along time ago aspired to an LP12. Yours looked like a really nice one. The Garrard 401 and, above all, the SL1210 have put an end to that aspiration.

I haven't compared, but from my POV the PS1200 is the next move.

cheers

Marco
01-10-2008, 10:19
Hi Tim,


Oh well , thats the Linn gone.
The buyer ( and his music loving Hi-Fi owning girlfriend :respect: ) popped around yesterday afternoon to pick up in person. We spent a good couple of hours going over the various aspects of the deck, with some close inspections of important bits. I'm pretty sure that Kev my buyer was more than happy with his purchase but i wanted to demonstrate that everything was at least as advertised, if not better.


Yep, there are some decent females around like that ;)

That's what I like about you - the thoroughness. You seem like quite an organised, methodical, person and I respect that. I'm like that myself. The only thing is by adopting this policy in a sales situation you can sometimes shoot yourself in the foot. You've no idea whom you're dealing with; people are fickle and it's *so* easy to say or do the wrong thing to put them off! They seemed like pretty nice folks though and it's obviously worked out ok, so well done.


Unfortunately and i'm sure that mostly down to the Ortofon Pro S DJ cart that i'd fitted. The Linn in my system wasn't performing as i knew it had in the past.


Bloody hell, a DJ cartridge on an LP12 - that's sacrilege! :eyebrows:

Now that could have so easily have lost you the deal because the buyer has no real way of knowing if it's sounding pants because of the cartridge or for some other reason. I think you were very lucky!


I couldn't get the Ortofon set up absolutely perfectly. Anyway I at least managed to prove that the wires and controls were working as they should and with the use of my strobe light and disk demonstrate that the speed was spot on, if its turning at the right speed and all the wires are all connected up correctly then the rest is purely down to setup and support on an LP12.


Not necessarily, but I know your deck was fine. You got away with escaping from a potentially tricky situation, so that's the main thing. On the rare occasions I have people coming round to buy hi-fi gear I simply set it up and let them have a quick listen (I know it will sound good and blow them away) and allow them to inspect it, but I don't dwell on things any longer than is necessary. I'm pleasant, as I always am with people, but I like to get the business done A.S.A.P before they change their mind for any bizarre reason - trust me, it happens! It's a classic scenario in sales.


So , back to the Technics. Do i feel let down... absolutely not. After a month of using the Technics, then goin back to the Linn for a day, then going back to the Technics again today, i am a happy that i have got a good record player that i reckon can hold its own with the best.


You definitely have, Tim. Quite simply so many people can't be wrong, and above all your own ears have told you it's a superb T/T. The good news is, you're only getting about 65-70% of its performance at the moment and you still love it. When you hear its full potential it'll blow your socks off!


John is hopefully finishing off my new brass counterweight even as we speak, and the new advenure can start in earnest .


That will give you a very nice sonic upgrade, and more than anything a beautiful looking piece of 'jewellery' on the end of your tonearm. I know you like nicely made things!


Next planned.. modifications for me will probably be an arm damper.

I'm with Peter here, Tim. Go for the PSU upgrade next - source first and all that! I can also tell you from experience that it will make a much bigger difference than the damper. In my experience to get the biggest 'bang for your buck' the order of upgrades for the 1210 should be as follows, presuming that the deck is bought in standard form:

1) PSU
2) Arm rewire
3) Damper
4) Thruno's brass counterweight balance
5) Headshell (Sumiko type, etc) and headshell wires
6) Mat(s) (SDS, Achromat, etc)
7) Isonoe feet
8) Strobe light disabler (this could actually go in at number 2 if its effect is as significant as I suspect it might be, but as I had no way of comparing it with and without it's impossible to be sure).

On a standard deck, especially the models without improved wiring, I would also look at fitting the RCA phono plate which is normally included when having the arm Cardas rewired by KAB. It allows the fitting of decent interconnects instead of the really crap ones supplied on everything but MK5G models and above. Trust me, these are not very good.

As such this upgrade is of a fundamental importance and I would therefore place it ahead of the arm rewire as the next priority after the PSU.

Marco.

thrunobulaxx
01-10-2008, 16:41
Tim, your "jewellery" ;)has been forwarded today.
Remember its recorded so have someone there in the morning.
Let me know if any mass changes are needed, tho i reckon you will be fine, you dont HAVE to use all 3 bits you know.:)

Marco
01-10-2008, 16:59
Hey, John, I meant "jewellery" as a compliment! :)

So why the sad face?

Marco.

thrunobulaxx
01-10-2008, 17:25
Hey, John, I meant "jewellery" as a compliment! :)

So why the sad face?

Marco.

Wrong smily Marco, it was meant to be a wink, but when i went back to correct it i was logged out again and then the pages taking an age to load, dont know whats going on but i have this problem a lot here (ending up logged out)

After this i`m going to restart but dont think its my end, but it does only seem to happen here, if i log into the wam i`m there untill i actually log out wherever i go in between visits, must be a different system here ?

Peter Stockwell
01-10-2008, 17:26
8) Strobe light disabler (this could actually go in at number 2 if its effect is as significant as I suspect it might be, but as I had no way of comparing it with and without it's impossible to be sure).


Thought you could disable the disabling ?

thrunobulaxx
01-10-2008, 17:31
Thought you could disable the disabling ?

Hi Pete, have you had a butchers at those feet yet ? or are they still unopened, if so i dont know how you could do that, i would have had to look.

I never could wait for xmas pesents as a kid, always sneaking a look :eyebrows:

Peter Stockwell
01-10-2008, 17:41
Hi Pete, have you had a butchers at those feet yet ? or are they still unopened, if so i dont know how you could do that, i would have had to look.

I never could wait for xmas pesents as a kid, always sneaking a look :eyebrows:

John,

I know you want to know how I feel about them, but the feet are not only unopened they're in a storage space under lock and key! I've seen the photos, I'm sure they are the real deal, and they'll be among the first things realeased from purgatory when the decorating is done. I haven't had time to take off the arm either, for J7 to fettle!

I have to get everything packed and out of the lounge by sunday, problem of living in a 2bedroom flat.

cheers :)

thrunobulaxx
01-10-2008, 19:12
John,

I know you want to know how I feel about them, but the feet are not only unopened they're in a storage space under lock and key! I've seen the photos, I'm sure they are the real deal, and they'll be among the first things realeased from purgatory when the decorating is done. I haven't had time to take off the arm either, for J7 to fettle!

I have to get everything packed and out of the lounge by sunday, problem of living in a 2bedroom flat.

cheers :)

OK, i will let you off this time ;)

Have those decorators been messing you about, it seems to have been going on for a bit now ?

The Etile is still singing away nicely btw, i made a new stainless steel counterweight, very finely tuned mass wise so i could get right up close to the pivot point, it meant tapering the sides so i would not foul the yoke on lift, its that close.I also made this one with its stub hole a little less near the top edge as in the other underslung types from expressimo machining etc, which i feel are a bit too low slung.
Its made an improvement imo.:)

Is anyone else finding page loading at a snails pace tonite ? it took a full 9 mins from clicking reply to get this page to load, most annoying.:steam:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/ssnewcw002.jpg

Marco
01-10-2008, 22:13
Wrong smily Marco, it was meant to be a wink, but when i went back to correct it i was logged out again and then the pages taking an age to load, dont know whats going on but i have this problem a lot here (ending up logged out)

After this i`m going to restart but dont think its my end, but it does only seem to happen here, if i log into the wam i`m there untill i actually log out wherever i go in between visits, must be a different system here ?


It could be a VBulletin thing, John. WW runs on a different system. I can't say that I've noticed anything running slower than usual :)

Maybe your comp is full of spyware from looking at all those porn sites? :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

Marco
01-10-2008, 22:16
Thought you could disable the disabling ?

Probably, but that would mean fiddling and I can't be arsed! :)

Marco.

thrunobulaxx
01-10-2008, 22:24
It could be a VBulletin thing, John. WW runs on a different system. I can't say that I've noticed anything running slower than usual :)

Maybe your comp is full of spyware from looking at all those porn sites? :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

I think i`m getting past punami Marco, bloody 60 next year, so i dont look at things i cant have, or rather wouldn`t want me.:lolsign:

Its actually a relief not having needs you know :smoking:

iv`e had my fair share so not complaing:eyebrows:

Marco
01-10-2008, 22:36
Punami? I've not heard that one before :lol:

What is it they say, John, the older the fiddle the better the tune...

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
02-10-2008, 14:19
Probably, but that would mean fiddling and I can't be arsed! :)

Marco.

I think it's just a question about how you press one or two of the buttons, to activate or disactivate?

This from the kabusa website:

"In use you simply hold the start-stop button down for 5 seconds and the lamp will disable. Hold again for 5 seconds and the lamp returns on."

Doesn't sound much like fiddling, I'll get one of these too when I've got the arm fettled.

The decorating story took a different turn yesterday, I've been preparing for their visit for about a month now, I hate being rushed. They were supposed to start monday 6/10/2008, but they told me yesterday they can't start until 27/10/08 at the earliest.

Rats!

Which on the one hand gives me more time to get everything to storage, and should comfortably give me the time to unarm the SL1210, but on the other, means I'll have to pay more for storage.

cheers

Marco
02-10-2008, 14:29
I think it's just a question about how you press one or two of the buttons, to activate or disactivate?

This from the kabusa website:

"In use you simply hold the start-stop button down for 5 seconds and the lamp will disable. Hold again for 5 seconds and the lamp returns on."

Doesn't sound much like fiddling, I'll get one of these too when I've got the arm fettled.


Hi Peter,

Yes that's exactly how it works but to analyse the effect properly I'd like to be able to enable it and disable it when a record is playing to quickly hear what's happening (or isn't), so that would involve doing something more intricate.

Basically it's designed to reduce electrical 'noise' in the circuit, and as I've had success before with removing LEDs on preamps and mains blocks, which resulted in improve sound quality, I decided to invest in the strobe disabler. Although, like I said before, if nothing else it switches off that garish red 'brothel' light which IMO cheapens the appearance of the deck :)

Don't work too hard with all this decorating malarkey!

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
02-10-2008, 14:38
Although, like I said before, if nothing else it switches off that garish red 'brothel' light which IMO cheapens the appearance of the deck :)

Don't work too hard with all this decorating malarkey!

Marco.

As it happens I was in Amsterdam last weekend, for the last night of Emmylou Harris's european tour. She played the Carré theatre, which is about the best small to medium (<1000 people) hall that I've heard since I left Kansas City.

There was a hall called the Downtown theatre, iirc., saw Bonnie Raitt, Ry Cooder and others there.

cheers

Marco
03-10-2008, 10:53
Amsterdam! :lolsign:

It sounds like it was a cracking venue, Peter. I like all the artists you mentioned latterly, too. How was Emmylou Harris, then; I’m presuming she did some of the material from her new album?

Tim's gone very quiet... Maybe he's too busy listening to his new LP12-beater ;)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
05-10-2008, 08:31
Emmylou did a great show, she's a true professional. This makes 3 times I've been to a Concert. The earliest being 1981.

She did a best of Emmylou Harris show, Including stuff from back in the day up till the current album, about 4 songs from the currrent album. She didn't do "Boulder to Birmingham", but she did "Red Dirt Girl", "Going back to Harlan", "Songbird" and other faves that I can't now recall.

I spent 2 months in Amsterdam 87/88, and it was lit up like the light on a teccie SL1200/SL1210, that seems to have changed.

I'm looking forward to another visit to the Carré theatre, but I'm looking out for the right show.

cheers

Sid and Coke
05-10-2008, 10:20
Tim's gone very quiet... Maybe he's too busy listening to his new LP12-beater ;)

Marco.

Just been busy, mostly non Hi-Fi/Music related.
I had my Motorcycle theory test on Wed which took up most of my spare time for a few days previous to this, didn't want to fail at the first hurdle, saving that for the proper drivng test :lol:.
I am notoriously bad at taking driving tests. It took me 3 attempts to pass my car driving test (24 years ago) and 3 attempts to pass my HGV test. I've not driven a Truck since the day i passed my test, in 1988.
This will be my 2nd attempt at getting the bike test, although the last one was 13 years ago, so reckon that no longer counts :) - I am not brimming with confidence, however my instructor comes highly recommended, and its not as if i've never done it before , or am a complete novice, so this is my only concern now for the next few weeks.

The Hi-Fi and records will still be there when i've completed it all - however long that takes....

I have managed to fit my new brass counter-weight though. Very happy with that.

Mike
05-10-2008, 18:53
I don't envy you at all. I took my bike test in... err... 1981 I think, about a year after my car test.

It was ridiculously easy in those days. As in almost pointless, you more or less had to have/cause a serious accident in order to fail. It wasn't the best of situations TBH.

Having said that, I can't help but feel that over the years there has been an effort to actually discourage people to even bother trying to take their motorcycle test (conspiracy theorists step in right here!) in order to keep the unruly bastards off the road!... Grrrrrr :steam:

My very very bestest of wishes to you Tim. Good Luck!!! ;)

Marco
12-10-2008, 22:56
I have managed to fit my new brass counter-weight though. Very happy with that.

Pics, pretty please! :)

I echo Mike's best wishes regarding your bike test. I passed mine in the late 80s when it was a two-part test, which wasn't quite as easy. One thing passing a motorbike test does (and the subsequent regular riding of one) is gives you excellent road awareness as a car driver...

Good luck, mate!

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
13-10-2008, 09:33
Pics, pretty please! :)

I echo Mike's best wishes regarding your bike test. I passed mine in the late 80s when it was a two-part test, which wasn't quite as easy. One thing passing a motorbike test does (and the subsequent regular riding of one) is gives you excellent road awareness as a car driver...

Good luck, mate!

Marco.

I almost got T-boned by a lane splitter I didn't see this morning, lucky for me he could brake and no harm was done. You can argue that I should have been more careful, but when I looked before changing lanes he wasn't there! On my commute some of these "motards" go way too fast when splitting lanes.

Still I'm really glad I missed him, or the contrary if you prefer, and I do look for them when changing lanes.

Sid and Coke
14-10-2008, 10:46
Pics, pretty please! :)

I passed mine in the late 80s when it was a two-part test, which wasn't quite as easy. One thing passing a motorbike test does (and the subsequent regular riding of one) is gives you excellent road awareness as a car driver...

Good luck, mate!

Marco.


Cheers, I'll need it. What was the two part test - some older bikers i have spoken to reckoned it was actually easier back then ?

I really hope i pass, I'm itching to get out there on my bike before the really shitty winter weather gets here.
I have done a bike test before though in sept 1995 and remember from this experience that the test is not only hard to pass but more worryingly easy to fail , so keep 'em crossed for me on the 31st October.

These days you have to do a computer based theory test, then get a CBT certificate, then pass the test. with Direct Access which is what i'm doing at least you can do all the training on a bigger bike now .

I don't care though, I'm happy to soak up all the advice i can get from my instructor, do all the safety training i can and just be safe. Sliding down the road on my arse with my head bouncing off the tarmac is not my idea of fun.



Irally like my Technics now, possibly because it is the only record player that i have , but i just enjoy using it. Even the quick stop/start with no wobble settle down period is nice.

The Denon DL103 has a nice healthy output, compared with the DL304. I do like the detail retrieval of the 304 , but the 103 does drive my amplifier chain along better think.
I absolutely love the sound of my little KEL84 , but sometimes wish i had a bit more bollocks in reserve. Adding a sub has helped a bit although i have not optimised and integrated it fully as yet as the Kytes aren't really my proper speakers, they are just emergency back-ups whilst i re-finish the Ela's.

Hmm,, th sun is shining, it is a nice crisp day. Wonder if i should get my arse in gear and do a bit of cabinet veneering today.... we'll see.

Peter Stockwell
14-10-2008, 11:48
I absolutely love the sound of my little KEL84 , but sometimes wish i had a bit more bollocks in reserve.

Isn't this a little amp crying out for some Klipsch Heresy's ?

I'm sorely tempted to try to persuade Mrs user34 we need a nice little tube integrated and some nice hornloaded loudspeakers ;)

Glad you are enjoying the SL1200, and yes the instant stop start is great, isn't it!

Marco
14-10-2008, 17:49
Hi Tim,


Cheers, I'll need it. What was the two part test - some older bikers i have spoken to reckoned it was actually easier back then?


It probably was, but it sounds harder than the one Mike passed! :eyebrows:

Basically, the first part was manoeuvring around cones and stuff - knowing how to control your bike. The second part was identical to the non-theory part of the driving test today although you had someone sitting at a vantage point watching you complete the instructions you were given.


I really hope i pass, I'm itching to get out there on my bike before the really shitty winter weather gets here. I have done a bike test before though in sept 1995 and remember from this experience that the test is not only hard to pass but more worryingly easy to fail , so keep 'em crossed for me on the 31st October.


I hope you do too, mate. Just be careful out on the roads - the majority of car drivers pay f*ck all attention to motorbikes, and with the amount of traffic on the roads these days a serious accident is always around the corner. It's a dangerous game now! Always wear full leathers and boots... I've had mates whose knee caps have been dislocated from their legs and all their skin scraped off and left on the tarmac after falling off their bikes at speed whilst wearing jeans and trainers.


These days you have to do a computer based theory test, then get a CBT certificate, then pass the test. with Direct Access which is what i'm doing at least you can do all the training on a bigger bike now.


Sounds like nightmare. But it should be difficult because it takes a great deal of skill and awareness to remain safe on a bike with the amount of traffic there is now. It's ok out in the country, but in towns or cities, or on motorways, it's a totally different ball game.


I don't care though, I'm happy to soak up all the advice i can get from my instructor, do all the safety training i can and just be safe. Sliding down the road on my arse with my head bouncing off the tarmac is not my idea of fun.


Too bloody right. Trust me you don't want to go there! Having a crash in car is one thing - at least you have some metal around you for protection. Until you've been involved in a motorbike accident you don't realise how delicate and susceptible to damage the human body is. Listen to your instructor and glean as much info as you can, but there is no substitute for practical experience out on the road.


I really like my Technics now, possibly because it is the only record player that i have , but i just enjoy using it. Even the quick stop/start with no wobble settle down period is nice.


The Technics is operationally a joy and sonically a delight. Have you gone for the KAB damper or PSU yet or are you just simply enjoying and getting to know the deck at the moment?


The Denon DL103 has a nice healthy output, compared with the DL304. I do like the detail retrieval of the 304 , but the 103 does drive my amplifier chain along better think.


Detail retrieval is what the 304 excels at, but in every other area the 103 smokes it, particularly in the bass, which is crucial for me as I listen to lots of bass-driven material. If a cartridge gets the bass wrong in terms of weight or tune then the whole of this type of music falls apart. That's why I like the 103 so much - no other cartridge I've heard at any price handles this aspect of the music better, and in such a funky and rhythmic way!


I absolutely love the sound of my little KEL84 , but sometimes wish i had a bit more bollocks in reserve. Adding a sub has helped a bit although i have not optimised and integrated it fully as yet as the Kytes aren't really my proper speakers, they are just emergency back-ups whilst i re-finish the Ela's.


You need to check out some good push-pull KT88 designs, Tim, like a WD88 or such like. There is no shortage of grunt or slam with those, and they are subtle sounding and musical, too.

Marco.

Sid and Coke
15-10-2008, 18:42
Always wear full leathers and boots... I've had mates whose knee caps have been dislocated from their legs and all their skin scraped off and left on the tarmac after falling off their bikes at speed whilst wearing jeans and trainers.


I don't have leathers as it is coming into winter, and I'm a little broke at the moment if i'm being honest.
However i have bought some fairly decent quality, waterproof, cordura textile bike gear , with Knox CE rated protectors in all the right places, plus winter gloves and got a new Helmet yesterday too. Decided that my 13 year old Nolan had too much of an unknown 'treatment history' for me to risk my life with it, even though it actually looks sparkling and unblemished.

Only thing i haven't bought as yet is dedicated Bike boots. I was planning to just wear my Timberlands for a while. Might have a wander round town just to see if there is anything affordable available though. I'm sure some of the dealers may have some discounted stock.

I have a feeling that i am going to be a bit of a fair weather rider if I'm being honest. I won't be going out in the rain, snow, slush, frost and Ice for fun thats for sure.



Sounds like nightmare. But it should be difficult because it takes a great deal of skill and awareness to remain safe on a bike with the amount of traffic there is now.


I actually enjoyed studying for the Theory test if I'm being honest. As an existing driver of over 25 years standing I found that it was useful to re-aquaint myself with the Highway code, etc, etc.




Too bloody right. Trust me you don't want to go there! Having a crash in car is one thing - at least you have some metal around you for protection. Until you've been involved in a motorbike accident you don't realise how delicate and susceptible to damage the human body is. Listen to your instructor and glean as much info as you can, but there is no substitute for practical experience out on the road.


To be perfectly honest I'm a bit scared already and i have ridden bikes on the road. I have had several little 125cc learner bikes, but not been on two wheels for over 13 years now. Hope i don't end up like all these other 'born again biker' statistics we often read about....

What is it about being in your 40's eh ?

Now then anybody got a book on how to snag yourself a young, attractive & willing mistress who'll happily try 'anything' once :lol:




The Technics is operationally a joy and sonically a delight. Have you gone for the KAB damper or PSU yet or are you just simply enjoying and getting to know the deck at the moment?


It is even simpler than that Marco, I simply don't have any spare 'Tims Toys' cash at the moment. I've not done too badly though recently, but with one more kids birthday to go and christmas a very few weeks away I'm going to have to wait for Santa to deliver.




You need to check out some good push-pull KT88 designs, Tim, like a WD88 or such like. There is no shortage of grunt or slam with those, and they are subtle sounding and musical, too.

Marco.

The WD88 is what I'm after next, so will slow look out for either buying a new DIY kit to build, or possibly buy a well made s/h unit, this is way off in the future at the moment for now. I know i will be happier when i get the Ela's re-installed.

Marco
23-10-2008, 07:18
Hi Tim,


I don't have leathers as it is coming into winter, and I'm a little broke at the moment if i'm being honest.
However i have bought some fairly decent quality, waterproof, cordura textile bike gear , with Knox CE rated protectors in all the right places, plus winter gloves and got a new Helmet yesterday too. Decided that my 13 year old Nolan had too much of an unknown 'treatment history' for me to risk my life with it, even though it actually looks sparkling and unblemished.


Yep, you can never be too careful or have too much protection when you're on a bike. When you can afford it, I'd advise that you invest in a good set of leathers, as these are the only things that'll offer any real protection in the event of an accident. The chicks'll love ya, too! ;)


Only thing i haven't bought as yet is dedicated Bike boots. I was planning to just wear my Timberlands for a while. Might have a wander round town just to see if there is anything affordable available though. I'm sure some of the dealers may have some discounted stock.


I think you should definitely do that as proper boots are an essential. Timberlands are substantial enough in normal circumstances, but not for falling off a bike at speed! How about proper bike gloves - do you have those?


I have a feeling that i am going to be a bit of a fair weather rider if I'm being honest. I won't be going out in the rain, snow, slush, frost and Ice for fun thats for sure.


There's nothing wrong with that. I was the same - it's only the diehards who go out in really bad weather. You need to know what you're doing not only in terms of handling your bike in those conditions but being prepared for just how cold you'll be within a very short time. The wind chill factor is something else, not to mention how much more this effect is increased when you're wet. Your hands, even with thick gloves on, will turn to ice pretty quickly and the whole of your face will be like one big (red) icicle! It's not like I'm trying to put you off or anything... :eyebrows:


I actually enjoyed studying for the Theory test if I'm being honest. As an existing driver of over 25 years standing I found that it was useful to re-aquaint myself with the Highway code, etc, etc.


How come I'm not surprised about that? It's the methodical Timmy boy again! :lol:

No, you can never know too much about the Highway code, and the theory test is essential in preparing you for the rigours of riding a motorbike on today's hugely busy roads full of (largely) inconsiderate car drivers. You need all the tools you can to survive safely!


To be perfectly honest I'm a bit scared already and i have ridden bikes on the road. I have had several little 125cc learner bikes, but not been on two wheels for over 13 years now. Hope i don't end up like all these other 'born again biker' statistics we often read about....


Don't even joke about that, mate... My advice would be to get as much practice as you can on quiet roads so you get a good feel for the bike and build up confidence before going anywhere near a motorway or large town. Trust me, hesitant, ill-prepared or inexperienced bikers lacking in confidence, and busy roads, are not a good combination!


Now then anybody got a book on how to snag yourself a young, attractive & willing mistress who'll happily try 'anything' once


Unfortunately not. If you find one, pass me a copy! :lol:

Don't worry, they'll love you in your leathers, as long as you don't sweat too much :lolsign:


The WD88 is what I'm after next, so will slow look out for either buying a new DIY kit to build, or possibly buy a well made s/h unit, this is way off in the future at the moment for now. I know i will be happier when i get the Ela's re-installed.

There are all sorts of options available when the time comes, and plenty of experienced folk here who'll give you all the genuine advice you need :)

Marco.

Sid and Coke
23-10-2008, 18:04
Hi Tim,
Yep, you can never be too careful or have too much protection when you're on a bike. When you can afford it, I'd advise that you invest in a good set of leathers, as really these are the only things that'll offer any real protection in the event of an accident. The chicks'll love ya, too! ;)


The guy who i bought the bike off said the same, he had decent cordura stuff all last winter and early spring, but said that Leathers are a whole differnet league. I'll aim to get some next spring , assuming I've passed by then.


I think you should definitely do that as proper boots are an essential. Timberlands are substantial enough in normal circumstances, but not for falling off a bike at speed! How about proper bike gloves - do you have those?


Like the lady in the Bike clothing shop said; Timberlands ae great walking and general boots bu aren't ideal as Bike boots. Bike boots are rubbish walking boots. I bought some proper bike boots and gloves, although hey are winter ones , so i have borrowed my mater summer gloves too see which are best during early training, then stick to the chose option for my late training and test . Hope i don't blow it, I'll be well pissed off.







How come I'm not surprised about that? It's the methodical Timmy boy again! :lol:

No, you can never know too much about the Highway code, and the theory test is essential in preparing you for the rigours of riding a motorbike on today's hugely busy roads full of (largely) inconsiderate car drivers. You need all the tools you can to survive safely!

Prior planning prevents piss poor performance



Don't even joke about that, mate... My advice would be to get as much practice as you can on quiet roads so you get a good feel for the bike and build up confidence before going anywhere near a motorway or large town. Trust me, hesitant, ill-prepared or inexperienced bikers lacking in confidence, and busy roads, are not a good combination!


Yeah, if i pass I don't plan on travelling too far for the first few days , stick to all the local roads that i know so well, although no doubt they will take on a whole new dynamic on two wheels...

Sid and Coke
28-10-2008, 20:15
3 days into my Motorbike driving course. Did the CBT trainig on saturday it was freezing cold, windy and lashing down with rain all day - great fun - not.

Yesterday was getting used to the 500cc bike then lots of town driving and set pieces ( U-Turns, emergency stops, etc) .

Today was more town driving plus Country road driving ( The instructor learnt us about counter steering going round bends - wow how cool is that ! ) also driving on Dual Carriageways, I will freely admit that when i first opened it up and got upto speed at 70mph - i thought to myself is this supposed to be fun because i'm a bit scared at the moment, obviously after a while you get used to it but i don't think i've ever felt that in touch with the road or vunerable before....

Two more days of training , then the big day on friday - i am not very confident at this stage as i still keep making stupid little ( fail worthy ) mistakes :(

Sid and Coke
31-10-2008, 16:23
Driving course done and Motorbike test passed ! :cool:

I knew the money from that LP12 sale would be put to a good cause.

pure sound
31-10-2008, 18:30
Congratulations! money well spent!

Mike
01-11-2008, 11:13
Driving course done and Motorbike test passed ! :cool:

I knew the money from that LP12 sale would be put to a good cause.


Whaay!... :):eek::clap::clap:

Marco
01-11-2008, 11:18
Congrats, matey :cool:

I'll warn the local denizens immediately of your imminent road abuse! :eyebrows:

Marco.

alcarmichael
15-07-2012, 08:23
I know this is an old thread but I stumbled upon it while researching my first turntable purchase. I had pretty much decided on a Rega Planar 3 but now am considering one of these Technics decks and embarking on a little project. What do you guys think to this idea?

My knowledge of turntables is currently pretty much non-existent but I am an engineer so shouldn't have too many problems learning about the workings of a deck.

Wakefield Turntables
15-07-2012, 08:31
Alex,

This place is probably the net's BEST forum on turbo charging your 1210 (if you buy one), so my advice would be very simple! SEARCH the forum for threads on how we have all pimped our techies. There is absolutely everything you could possibly ever want to know about the subject. The question you ask has been asked multiple times on the forum. Good luck with your project. ;)


A

alcarmichael
15-07-2012, 10:13
Trust me I've been doing a lot of reading! :lol:
All I've done for most of this weeks evenings and ALL of this weekend is research TT's. Initially my thought process was to get a nice, simple, good quality deck and build up my record collection, then maybe move onto something a little more exotic. Now I'm really tempted to jump in at the deep end and buy a TT with the intention of upgrading it following the paths you guys have taken....

Tarzan
15-07-2012, 10:38
Alex, go and buy a Techie and thank me later:)

alcarmichael
15-07-2012, 10:41
Ha, I'm not going to get any other suggestions here am I? :)
Perhaps an already modified Techie would be the right move for me....
Anybody know of any for sale?

Wakefield Turntables
15-07-2012, 10:44
Trust me I've been doing a lot of reading! :lol:
All I've done for most of this weeks evenings and ALL of this weekend is research TT's. Initially my thought process was to get a nice, simple, good quality deck and build up my record collection, then maybe move onto something a little more exotic. Now I'm really tempted to jump in at the deep end and buy a TT with the intention of upgrading it following the paths you guys have taken....

If you go down the techie route then your in for a treat. Many members techies have undergone various degrees of modification from light to severe (mine included :eyebrows:). Your level of modification will be determined by what you want from your techie and the size of your wallet. You must be able to define one (your decks needs) before you can gauge the other (finicial outlay) :trust: You are in an incredibly lucky position because many members can advise you on how the myriad of kit has up or down graded their techie.

Remember just mail us if you need us, we have all been in your position.

Andy

;)

alcarmichael
15-07-2012, 10:48
As a complete novice it will be hard for me to pinpoint what my deck needs.

Macca
15-07-2012, 11:11
As a complete novice it will be hard for me to pinpoint what my deck needs.

Start simple -

Get a 1200/1210

Replace the rubber mat (lots of alternatives available from £20 to £XXX, it is a suck it and see thing with the mat, the importnat thing is to get rid of the stock one).

Replace the stock headshell, again, lots of alternatives from £30 up.

Fit a suitable cartridge.

Now the deck is up to hi-fi standards. Start listening, see what you think and then move on with the further mods as and when you feel it necessary.

alcarmichael
15-07-2012, 11:14
Thanks for the advice - the search for a deck begins....
Out of curiosity, what is wrong with the original mat?

Macca
15-07-2012, 11:19
Thanks for the advice - the search for a deck begins....
Out of curiosity, what is wrong with the original mat?

To my ears it makes the sound thick and bloated - I'm not the only one to have noticed this. When used as a DJ deck to play dance music through a PA it is not really an issue but in a domestic set up it really does spoil the sound.

Disles1
15-07-2012, 11:20
Start simple -

Get a 1200/1210

Replace the rubber mat (lots of alternatives available from £20 to £XXX, it is a suck it and see thing with the mat, the importnat thing is to get rid of the stock one).

Replace the stock headshell, again, lots of alternatives from £30 up.

Fit a suitable cartridge.

Now the deck is up to hi-fi standards. Start listening, see what you think and then move on with the further mods as and when you feel it necessary.

Don't throw out the stock mat and headshell yet. You may find that in some situations the heavy stock mat will come in handy so don't throw it out. With some high-end and other cartridges you will find that a modified stock cartridge - mine has pure silver leads - is best since it is low weight and keeps the cart/arm frequency resonance in the sweet spot.

Macca
15-07-2012, 11:26
Don't throw out the stock mat and headshell yet. You may find that in some situations the heavy stock mat will come in handy so don't throw it out. With some high-end and other cartridges you will find that a modified stock cartridge - mine has pure silver leads - is best since it is low weight and keeps the cart/arm frequency resonance in the sweet spot.

Yes fair point - don't bin anything you replace - if you decide the deck is not for you then return it to stock and sell it on and sell your mat and headshell seperately That way you won't have dropped hardly any money on the experiment.