Vintage unusual vinyl spinner

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Guys

I chance conversation a week ago has brought an opportunity to try out a very unique UK vinyl spinner from abut 30 years ago.

Its a JBE Series 3 Slatedeck turntable with SME 3009 arm (think that's what it is) and an MC cart from I think Strathern Audio a failed Northern Irish HiFi manufacturer from the early 80's.

So far very interesting though I think the cart has seen better days. But all the qualities of direct drive are here....speed stability, great bass. I plan to either put my SME 5 on it or I think my Graham Phantom will fit too :)

Photos to follow when my camera charges up.


Regards D S D L

[DSJR]

How's the servo Neil? It's too long ago for me to remember much, but Colloms and co. noticed a problem with the classic old-fashioned Direct Drive servo overshoot..

I think the classic KJW1 record player pre Linn was a JBE with Formula 4 arm and Sonus Blue cartridge

[Spectral Morn]

How's the servo Neil? It's too long ago for me to remember much, but Colloms and co. noticed a problem with the classic old-fashioned Direct Drive servo overshoot..

I think the classic KJW1 record player pre Linn was a JBE with Formula 4 arm and Sonus Blue cartridge

Servo? Its working fine I think (what is it lol) I can't detect any issues on speed stopping starting. Bit of a thump on switch on so volume needs turning down on the pre but other than that so far so good.


Regards D S D L

[DSJR]

If when playing (or looking at a strobe disc) you gently slow the platter a tad and let go, does the speed over-shoot too fast before settling, or does the speed gradually come back to optimum? The current techie won't do this obviously, but the OEM Matsushita motors could be dire - and with weak torque as well to compound this (JBE supposedly changed the motor during production).

I speak from current experiences here. the Dual 701 isn't a torquey motor, but with carts tracking at 1.5g or less (what it was designed for), there's no problem at all. The techie now belonging to Alex was superb, slowing and letting go just causing the speed to quickly return to normal. My current SL1500 tends to over-shoot too fast before settling although the torque is ample for normal playing at under 2g. There are trimmers on the board and it's only a case of checking two voltages across four points, so not difficult to optimise if I can be a*sed to do it. Alex's bearing seems a touch "stiffer" than mine, so it could be that mine has had many thousands of hours of use and the bearing has polished up (no slack though).

[hifi_dave]

I sat in on a couple of demonstrations at Hi-Fi shows where the JBE was pitted against the LP12. The idea was that the public were given a pad and asked to list which of the two turntables they preferred when listening to a couple of tracks.

On both occasions, where I was present, the dozen strong audience almost to a man preferred the LP12, much to the consternation of the chap from JBE who was conducting the demo...:doh:

[Spectral Morn]

I sat in on a couple of demonstrations at Hi-Fi shows where the JBE was pitted against the LP12. The idea was that the public were given a pad and asked to list which of the two turntables they preferred when listening to a couple of tracks.

On both occasions, where I was present, the dozen strong audience almost to a man preferred the LP12, much to the consternation of the chap from JBE who was conducting the demo...:doh:

I have read about that Dave. Must say I am quite impressed so far with the JBE but I wont really know more until I get one of my own arms on it with a known cart. The SME 3009 with knife edge bearings not a great arm imho...I could be wrong though.


Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

If when playing (or looking at a strobe disc) you gently slow the platter a tad and let go, does the speed over-shoot too fast before settling, or does the speed gradually come back to optimum? The current techie won't do this obviously, but the OEM Matsushita motors could be dire - and with weak torque as well to compound this (JBE supposedly changed the motor during production).

I speak from current experiences here. the Dual 701 isn't a torquey motor, but with carts tracking at 1.5g or less (what it was designed for), there's no problem at all. The techie now belonging to Alex was superb, slowing and letting go just causing the speed to quickly return to normal. My current SL1500 tends to over-shoot too fast before settling although the torque is ample for normal playing at under 2g. There are trimmers on the board and it's only a case of checking two voltages across four points, so not difficult to optimise if I can be a*sed to do it. Alex's bearing seems a touch "stiffer" than mine, so it could be that mine has had many thousands of hours of use and the bearing has polished up (no slack though).


I will have a look at that and see Dave thank you. I have put a Bruil weight on it and no issues so far.


Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

Photos of the JBE Series 3 Slatedeck

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/002.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/003.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/001.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/004.jpg


Regards D S D L

[Rare Bird]

Great stuff Neil. I owned one for approx 4 days

btw: on you opening post you put SME '3009' it's an SME 'III'

[Spectral Morn]

Great stuff Neil. I owned one for approx 4 days

btw: on you opening post you put SME '3009' it's an SME 'III'

Thanks Andre thought it was but as I don't have the box I guessed (and wrongly lol)

Why only 4 days...or should I not ask?


Regards D S D L

[Alex_UK]

I love the looks of these, and asked about them sometime ago: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=131392&postcount=503

If you follow the thread responses you'll see "The Two Daves" weren't raving about them, but equally they didn't slaughter them like most of my enquiries! :lol:

Personally, I love the 70's look, but by the sounds of it, it is only going to be of curiosity value rather than a sonic giant-killer.

[Spectral Morn]

I love the looks of these, and asked about them sometime ago: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=131392&postcount=503

If you follow the thread responses you'll see "The Two Daves" weren't raving about them, but equally they didn't slaughter them like most of my enquiries! :lol:

Personally, I love the 70's look, but by the sounds of it, it is only going to be of curiosity value rather than a sonic giant-killer.

Maybe Alex we shall see. I have found some very positive comments on line including one guy who thought it destroyed his Garrad 401.


Regards D S DL

[Beobloke]

Personally I'm intrigued by the Strathearn cartridge. Never knew they marketed such a thing.

[Spectral Morn]

Personally I'm intrigued by the Strathearn cartridge. Never knew they marketed such a thing.

Hi Adam

The owner of the turntable told me that that is what it is. It is certainly a moving coil cart as their was virtually no noise from it using an MM input only MC input gave good volume. There is no markings on it or anything else to say what it is.

The owner informed me that these didn't get to market as such but that two local guys who went on to form a successful Linn dealership bought a lot of the bankrupt Strathern stock and built a business from selling it off and these carts were the cream on the top of what they bought.

I need to get the SME box of the guy as I need some tools from it; so I will ask for more info box of cart etc.


Regards D S D L

[Beobloke]

Interesting, thanks. I'd be keen to know more about it.

I wonder who made it for them? Given that Strathearn couldn't make a turntable that worked properly I doubt they had a go at an MC themselves!

[Spectral Morn]

Interesting, thanks. I'd be keen to know more about it.

I wonder who made it for them? Given that Strathearn couldn't make a turntable that worked properly I doubt they had a go at an MC themselves!

Good question :lol: When I remove the arm I will take some close ups of the cart and assuming I can get no more info from the owner (who I have just rung and left a message for him to ring me back) maybe those will help identify it.


Regards D S D L

[chris@panteg]

I find this statement quite interesting , from Strathern themselves .

' The new design of electronic servo direct drive motor in the SMA-2 has levels of speed variation (wow, flutter and drift) and vibration (rumble) that are so low compared with those on records, that further improvement would be of questionable value.

The deck used to go backwards very often didn't it , in fact most owner's didn't know what it was going to do :eyebrows:

[Spectral Morn]

I find this statement quite interesting , from Strathern themselves .

' The new design of electronic servo direct drive motor in the SMA-2 has levels of speed variation (wow, flutter and drift) and vibration (rumble) that are so low compared with those on records, that further improvement would be of questionable value.

The deck used to go backwards very often didn't it , in fact most owner's didn't know what it was going to do :eyebrows:

It was a brave attempt at something unique for the UK but it was a flawed design. I have only ever seen one once a very long time ago and truth be told I paid it almost zero attention being more interested in CD players and valve amplifiers at the time :doh:. I am told that their speakers are very good but I have neither seen or heard a pair so don't know if this is true or not.


Regards D S D L

[Beobloke]

I find this statement quite interesting , from Strathern themselves .

' The new design of electronic servo direct drive motor in the SMA-2 has levels of speed variation (wow, flutter and drift) and vibration (rumble) that are so low compared with those on records, that further improvement would be of questionable value.

The deck used to go backwards very often didn't it , in fact most owner's didn't know what it was going to do :eyebrows:

To be fair, I owned an SMA4 for a while and it was an interesting beast. I actually thought the motor (which was a larger version of the unit designed for Mettoy's Music Maker range of toy record players) was an interesting concept, if not executed sufficiently well for a hi-fi product. Mine ran well and surface noise was very low indeed. For me the biggest problem was the flexible headshell coupling on the arm which completely ruined the bass.

As to the running backwards thing, I was most disappointed that mine never did this, even if I tried to make it do so deliberately! The only deck I have ever owned which ran backwards with boring regularity was the dreadful Connoisseur BD1.

[Spectral Morn]

The cartridge is not Strathern its an Entre one. Anyone know anything about that one. tracking weight etc.


Regards D S D L

[The Grand Wazoo]

I feel sure I've got something about an Entre cartridge in an old magazine, Neil. Can't find it though - I'll have a bit more time in a few days.

[Barry]

The cartridge is not Strathern its an Entre one. Anyone know anything about that one. tracking weight etc.


Regards D S D L


Hi Neil

1.8 - 2.0g VTF

The Lentek preamp (enthused over by Marco) was designed for the Entré 1. I seem to remember the cartidge was favourably received by the Hi-Fi press, though today it might now seem to be a little 'boring'. I wanted one at the time, but ended up continuing my interest in Ortofon MCs.

http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/October%201978/163/855609/Equipment+Reviews

Regards

[hifi_dave]

The cartridge is not Strathern its an Entre one. Anyone know anything about that one. tracking weight etc.


Regards D S D L

I'm pretty certain that DSJR has one. If not, he'll have all the info stored away in his brain cells...:scratch:

[DSJR]

Gawd, the number of bloody Entre's I set up and sold in my time....

The Entre changed over time. At its best it was a soft and all-enveloping sound and worked in all sorts of arms we'd not take seriously now and at its best in (you've been H)adcocks :lol:

Later Entre's got a but spitty when new but we went over to the Supex 900E at the time and the Entre, together with the Lentek head amp, faded from view for us.

1.8g was about right as I remember. I don't remember ever going as high as 2g tracking...

[Neil McCauley]

I have read about that Dave. Must say I am quite impressed so far with the JBE but I wont really know more until I get one of my own arms on it with a known cart. The SME 3009 with knife edge bearings not a great arm imho...I could be wrong though.


Regards D S D L

Good evening. I sold many many JBE decks and yes, motors were a variable. However exchanging the motor was a doddle. During demos and at home I never switched it off during a listening session. Just placed and removed the record from the spinning platter.

The majority of mine were sold with a Dynavector DV-505 arm (custom-cut extended plinth of course) and whatever Dynavector cartridge was to hand. My preference was the Karat 12-D. As for comparisons with the Linn, it was a doddle. At the peak demand for JBE, the LP12 was at its maximum bass-sogginess. Terrific.

One track of a Mobile Fidelity pressing of "Crime Of The Century" was all it took. Once on the LP12 and then on the JBE. Job done. Cash was flashed. Ivor was increasingly enraged. Win-win all round. Magic. Oh happy days.

[Spectral Morn]

Gawd, the number of bloody Entre's I set up and sold in my time....

The Entre changed over time. At its best it was a soft and all-enveloping sound and worked in all sorts of arms we'd not take seriously now and at its best in (you've been H)adcocks :lol:

Later Entre's got a but spitty when new but we went over to the Supex 900E at the time and the Entre, together with the Lentek head amp, faded from view for us.

1.8g was about right as I remember. I don't remember ever going as high as 2g tracking...

Having chatted with the owner today he tells me its probably only had about 70 hours use max. I have just taken the SME off and I am going to see if my Graham will fit. It may be too tall for the low platter but I am going to give it ago. I think the Graham will sound good on this TT.


Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

Good evening. I sold many many JBE decks and yes, motors were a variable. However exchanging the motor was a doddle. During demos and at home I never switched it off during a listening session. Just placed and removed the record from the spinning platter.

The majority of mine were sold with a Dynavector DV-505 arm (custom-cut extended plinth of course) and whatever Dynavector cartridge was to hand. My preference was the Karat 12-D. As for comparisons with the Linn, it was a doddle. At the peak demand for JBE, the LP12 was at its maximum bass-sogginess. Terrific.

One track of a Mobile Fidelity pressing of "Crime Of The Century" was all it took. Once on the LP12 and then on the JBE. Job done. Cash was flashed. Ivor was increasingly enraged. Win-win all round. Magic. Oh happy days.

How are you Howard keeping well i hope. really nice to see you back on AOS.
Thank you for that info. This JBE seems to be Aok no motor noise and everything working well. It will be interesting to see how a Graham Phantom sounds on it.


Regards Neil

[Neil McCauley]

How are you Howard keeping well i hope. really nice to see you back on AOS.
Thank you for that info. This JBE seems to be Aok no motor noise and everything working well. It will be interesting to see how a Graham Phantom sounds on it.


Regards Neil

Hi, and thank you for the welcome. It feels good to be back. Moreover I'm back pretty much because of Marco's clearly careful moderating hand. A rare combination of assertiveness without aggression. Not something I'd be able to achieve under similar circumstances.

Re JBE, I found the supplied Audio Technica isolators to be near useless but were the only things around at the time 'cos Sorbothane hadn't been released at that point. If I had a JBE today I'd be tempted to use the LFD isolators ('cos I stock 'em) or fiddle about with split squash balls or whatever. I cleaned the slate first with meths and then dressed it with linseed oil. Cleaning the platter of dust required a lot of Q-tips and a lot of patience.

Regards. Howard

[DSJR]

Good luck - great sound with better arm I'm sure :)

JBE weren't the only ones to suffer with iffy motors and it seems the manufacturers using them weren't all to blame. Seems to me that Matsushita wanted people to buy their own decks, although some of the cheaper ones were dire early on as I recall.

I think that most of these decks will sound better than ever nowadays, as we're paying far more attention to the setup and support of these solid-style models.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi, and thank you for the welcome. It feels good to be back. Moreover I'm back pretty much because of Marco's clearly careful moderating hand. A rare combination of assertiveness without aggression. Not something I'd be able to achieve under similar circumstances.

Re JBE, I found the supplied Audio Technica isolators to be near useless but were the only things around at the time 'cos Sorbothane hadn't been released at that point. If I had a JBE today I'd be tempted to use the LFD isolators ('cos I stock 'em) or fiddle about with split squash balls or whatever. I cleaned the slate first with meths and then dressed it with linseed oil. Cleaning the platter of dust required a lot of Q-tips and a lot of patience.

Regards. Howard

Do you remember if the platter can be removed and if so how?


Regards D S D L

[DSJR]

Ahem - HiFi Dave sells LFD too, just to put some balance into the proceedings;)

[Spectral Morn]

Graham now mounted.....

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/004-1.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/001-1.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/003-1.jpg

Few small issues discovered i.e one of the threaded arm mounting holes on the deck isn't aligned correctly :doh: but three are Aok and arm VTA is just right and no more. The Graham is quite tall but with slightly thicker vinyl VTA will be spot on.

Let listening begin......


Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

After a few days of listening and increasingly thinking this was not up to much I replaced the neglix cable with the Graham IC70 :doh::eek::) Seriously guys if anyone really thinks this is the best cable around, well ummmmm sorry, but I have to disagree totally (and yes I know the Graham is dear...I bought mine S/H) but it pisses over the Neglix by so big a margin its scary.

Let the listening continue.

Oh yes if your using a neglix get rid of it and try something better...seriously its holding your analogue replay back. So all you Jelco 250/750 users start trying different arm cables...you will be quite shocked.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/001-2.jpg


Regards D S D L

[synsei]

Lovely looking deck that Neil, I was quite taken by the 'Star Trek' styling in my HiFi yoof... :lol: