Dual Turntables.

[southall-1998]

Thinking of getting a decent good turntable for the little bedroom system.

Are Duals any good? What are the good Dual turntables to go for?


Regards.

[Mr Pig]

The only Dual I've had was the 505, not brilliant. They are also quite complicated, lots of little bits to break.

[hifi_dave]

Back in the day, we sold thousands of Dual 505's (and I mean thousands) to record shops throughout the country. Although they looked flimsy, they were very robust and we had relatively few failures. Sonically, they were pretty naff though.

[southall-1998]

Looks like the 505 is off the list.

[MCRU]

look on e-bay for a rega p2 should do the job?

[DSJR]

1019, 1216, 1218, 1219, 1229, 501, 510, 601, 701 & possibly the CS5000

That do for a start?

There were some later auto belt drives, but I don't know much about these. The 505 series had very low mass arms and the Ortofon OM 20 is the best cartridge/stylus which can be fitted to them IMO. The deck plates were thinner than the old models, the platter lighter and the arms very resonant with anything other than a delicate high compliance cartridge. My 701 will just about work with an AT OC9 and Ortofon MC30 Super, but they're not really ideal IMO.

The 1019 is beautiful if you can find a cherished one. A real sleeper still.

Rega's are all very well, but even elderly ones with dried-out and worn main bearings and broken cueing devices fetch silly money these days - far more than they cost when new...

[southall-1998]

The Dual CS5000 looks nice and must sound decent. How much do they go for?

[keiths]

There's one on eBay, ending tomorrow. Cheap enough at the moment.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dual-CS5000-New-Tech-Record-Deck-/250781985414?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a63c56a86

[Mr Pig]

If looking for a cheap turntable I wouldn't narrow it down to any particular brand, what's the point of that? More important is simply getting a good one.

Key to that I feel is buying one locally. If you buy on eBay everything is against you. The postage is going to double the price of a cheap deck and they are not ideal items to post. They are large, fragile and few cheap turntables will still have their original packing. Few sellers will know how to safely pack them either, I've posted turntables without the original packing and it's not easy.

Just look locally for all turntables and something nice will turn up. Years ago I bought an Ariston RD11s with a Rega RB250 for £100. That's pretty much identical to an early Linn LP12 and it sounded great. Last year I bought a Systemdek One for the kids to play with. It's virtually identical to a Rega Planer 2 but with an arm similar to a Linn Basic LVX. That was £30.

Lots of stuff out there, throw the net wide.

[DSJR]

Good advice.

I've just got hold of another "scrap" Technics SL1500 with a suspect main bearing 'cos it was sent with platter in place. I haven't yet investigated it, but the thoughts of Lencos being shipped without the platter being removed fills me with dread.

As long as a Dual can be sent with loads of packing around the platter, you may just get away with it.. The 5000 has a suspension which will need some care. Sonically, the CS5000 is lean and bright but may respond to a warmer toned cartridge such as a vintage Pickering XV15/Stanton 681EEE or an ADC for instance.

[hifi_dave]

I've had a GL75 and a Thorens TD135 both wrecked in transit because the sender didn't pack them properly. The GL75 was shipped in a Howland West plinth with the lid in place. The platter came off, destroying the lid and arm..:eek:

Fortunately, my beautiful new Thorens TD 124 was delivered by hand...:cool:

[keiths]

When I bought my sl1500 off ebay, I pleaded with the seller by email to remove the platter and counterweight, fit the transit screws, tie the arm to the armrest etc. They complied and it arrived safe and sound.

[spendorman]

1019, 1216, 1218, 1219, 1229, 501, 510, 601, 701 & possibly the CS5000

That do for a start?

There were some later auto belt drives, but I don't know much about these. The 505 series had very low mass arms and the Ortofon OM 20 is the best cartridge/stylus which can be fitted to them IMO. The deck plates were thinner than the old models, the platter lighter and the arms very resonant with anything other than a delicate high compliance cartridge. My 701 will just about work with an AT OC9 and Ortofon MC30 Super, but they're not really ideal IMO.

The 1019 is beautiful if you can find a cherished one. A real sleeper still.

Rega's are all very well, but even elderly ones with dried-out and worn main bearings and broken cueing devices fetch silly money these days - far more than they cost when new...

Yes, I have a 1019, at first look, one might think of SP25's, but the 1019 is of super quality. It is a very quiet idler drive, in my view quieter that 301, 401 and Thorens TD124 II (which I still have).

My 1019 came with a B&O cartridge, is great.

[hifi_dave]

When I bought the TD 135, I asked the sender to remove and wrap the platter separately and secure the arm. Unfortunately, the sender wrapped the platter in bubble and secured it to the turntable chassis with insulating tape. In transit, the wrapped platter moved around sufficiently to damage the arm and when I removed the insulating tape from the chassis, some of the paint came with it. ..:eek:

I've not had good experiences with turntable purchases from E-Bay.

[DSJR]

Yes, I have a 1019, at first look, one might think of SP25's, but the 1019 is of super quality. It is a very quiet idler drive, in my view quieter that 301, 401 and Thorens TD124 II (which I still have).

My 1019 came with a B&O cartridge, is great.


Shhh, they'll all want one...

The last Garrard to have anywhere near this level of high quakity engineering IMO was the Lab 80. I've one coming next week and it will be interesting to see just how good (or bad) it really is. Forget my ravings about the AT6/60 etc - I'm quite well aware of their noise and crudeness (although they're still huge fun :)). I'm hoping the Lab 80 will be fairly quiet and well behaved arm-wise.

The 1019 (don't know the lesser 10** series) is a stunner. Still a touch of "idler whine" in the background, but as long as the stylus isn't a fine-line type requiring absolute precision in VTA, the arm is pretty rigid (think Ittok here) and with excellent bearings and auto-trip. A Linn K9 was quite at home for example, so an AT130E should also be, as they're related in most characteristics (I believe the K9 had a "Vital" tip though). It's the slickness of the controls I love so much about it - the 12** series didn't quite have this I felt, although they never put a foot wrong.

I love those old B&O cartridges as well and have an SP6 awaiting new stylus, an SP14 and a new old SP12, which is a bit microphonic in the 701 but wonderful in the Beogram 3000 I have, which is its natural home. Just a touch sucked-out in the lower treble, that's all. I have two MMC20CL's as well, one with a channel down, but they're a bit too "distant" sounding in our cool rooms to really rock, although tracking/tracing is perfect.

Shane, if you're still reading this, PLEASE bear in mind that any old deck will need some TLC (Lencos especially) and the Dual 12** series have issues with their "steurpimpel" (ooh err missus :D), which can easily be sorted with some care and a short length of ball-point refill....

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF0344_modifiedliftingpin.jpg

[Mr Pig]

I've had a GL75 and a Thorens TD135 both wrecked in transit because the sender didn't pack them properly.

I had an AR turntable arrive literally in bits! Looked like the sender just dropped it into a flimsy cardboard box.

I also bought a Rotel system for the kitchen once and sent the seller instructions on how to pack it. He ignored what I said and almost every component was damaged. The CD player was a bin job.

[hifi_dave]

John Michell once showed me a Gyro turntable which had been returned to him because of a minor fault. The dealer had put the fully assembled turntable back into the carton and scribbled on the box 'fragile'. Of course, the turntable was completely wrecked and the dealer was horrified that the courier hadn't taken better care with it...:doh:

[greenhomeelectronics]

just to put this back on topic, the 505's have two common faults, the first is the toothed belt that sets the speed breaks or the teeth wear off making it impossible to set the speed, the second is that the pivot for the on / off switch that is triggered by the arm gums up. If that happens it usually starts with the deck being slow to start when the arm is moved to the record, it then usually stops working altogether. Bot are easily fixed, although the toothed belts can be hard to find now. Better bet is the later 606, which was direct drive and did not suffer from either fault.
Hope that helps,
Dave.

[DSJR]

I've had 505's with hot running ballast resistors and a hot-component smell too. Don't know if it's a motor fault or summat else though..

To be honest, a Dual 505 is nowhere near as good as a cheap CD player and hasn't been for some time now. It sounds so ragged-n-rough with the supplied cartridge and doesn't get hugely better with cartridge upgrades I found, although the OM20 stylus (now costing twice what a minty 505 would fetch on the used market - grrr) did refine things. I appreciate that later ones came with an AT95E, but eben this cartridge can sound better in a superior turntable.