Chinese audio

[Haselsh1]

Chinese audio…?

In 2006 I was in a reasonably lucky financial situation and so bought via Ornec an Original 2008F HDCD CD player and a Yarland Pro 200SE 300B SE amplifier. Both of these units looked amazing and were very stylish by comparison with British units but of course I could not listen to either before purchase. The sum total of these two units after import duty was around seven hundred and fifty pounds.

In 2007 the Original stopped working but still had internal power as some of the solenoids were still clicking on power up/power down. I took the unit into a local electrical store and had their engineer take a look at it to see if he could fix it. It turned out that the mains toroidal transformer had burnt out and would need replacing. This was done at a cost of around eighty five pounds. The unit has worked perfectly ever since but in February 2010 was joined by a Beresford Caiman.

The Yarland lasted until 2008 when it developed blue flashes in the 300B’s on power up with loud cracking sounds coming from the speakers. This I now know is referred to as flash over and can often happen in the rectifier valve. I had a valve engineer take a look at the amp and he was to be polite, gobsmacked by what he saw inside the amp. He was disgusted by the internal construction of this amplifier and found out that along with the CD player, the amplifier had a European voltage mains transformer. This meant that all of the amplifiers internal voltages were out with some of the voltages being dangerously high. What I don’t understand is why it took a year and a half to manifest itself in the switch on of the amplifier. The Yarland was eventually sold as a chassis project for sixty quid.

This is simply an outline of my experience with Chinese Hi-Fi not all of which has gone according to plan. What are your personal views on this stuff and how has it affected you…? Would you actually buy any of this now that China has woken up and knows how to price their products…? Would you buy through a British importer who adds a couple of grand just because he has checked it over and modded it…? My personal view is that this Chinese stuff looks amazing but that is about as far as it goes. Yes I could have used a device to match the correct voltage going in but who the hell wants one of those in their lounge under the sofa…? My experience was not so good but I still love valve amps however the Yarland wasn’t a patch on the Croft I now have even though this has it’s fair share of problems.

[DSJR]

Much hifi bought in the UK now is of Chinese origin - Quad, some or all of Arcam? Cambridge, popular speakers from B&W, KEF etc

I appreciate that this isn't really what you're on about, but I think it's fairly common knowledge that much of the specialist gear sold directly is wired for 220V and as long as UK voltages don't drift too high, it's *just* usable.

I suppose the lesson to be learned is to have these units thouroughly checked out before use, so that transformers can be replaced if necessary, voltages checked and any possible bad assembly corrected. I hope Guy would also comment as he seems to take an imported product, makes it usable here and I suspect a fair proportion of his profit may be in getting the units "approved" for UK sale.

Of course, Glenn is a master of "less is more" and his carefully assembled products seem to work for decades without trouble unless one is extremely unlucky (my beautifully assembled unregulated Croft OTL power amp didn't like me or my speakers at all).

[Techno Commander]

This is a problem with most of the Chinese offerings, especially those on ebay. Many are made with 110/220 volt transformers which is fine for USA and Asia. Some may have 230 volt transformers which is OK for Europe but not for the UK where mains can often exceed 250 volts.

In a way, I am glad you have started this thread, as I have also been looking at getting a Chinese valve amplifier. However, I have also been doing my homework.

From what I have found so far, there are 2 main issues with Chinese kit. These are the afore mentioned mains transformer issue and secondly, there have been a number of concerns regarding assembly and quality control.

Superficially, a number of the Chinese offerings appear to offer superb value for money and if you lived elsewhere in the world, then that may be the case, but as you have alluded to, you would need to have a stepdown transformer hidden somewhere to prevent the eventual fireworks that are likely to happen when something is fed with far too many volts.

The only way to prevent this is to find a product that has a 240 volt transformed installed in it during the manufacturing process. So far, I have only found one manufacturer that does this and this is Meixing/MingDa. I know this for 2 reasns. Firstly, I have contacted the factory as I am interested in one of their amplifiers. I have received a reply stating they do indeed use dedicated 240 volt transformers in their products. Secondly, they are an OEM manufacturer for Icon Audio. Tis means they are bulding products designed in the UK for a UK market. Therefore all relevent UK and Eu safety and legislative requirements need to be met.

The factory stated they would be prepared to sell me a 240 volt specified amplifier direct, rather than going through a middle man and (possibly) getting what ever they had to hand. The factory option also comes with a warranty.

The other questionable fact with Chinese products is QC, or in some cases lack of it. I have seen some shoddily assembled PCBs on equipment. Admittedly, the message is slowly getting through and things are slowly improving, but this is more at the higher end products. The "cheap" equipment is still cheap for a reason. I do believe that within a few years there will be some absolutely stunning equipment emerging from China with relevent Eu safety approvals. Hopefully some of it will be designed/constructed to UK specifications.

Anyway, if we return to the Meixing products, the other thing which impresses me is the quality they employ in their construction. All their amps are hard wired and the quality of this construction appears to be impeccable.



I therefore feel confident that buying one of these amps will be far less of a gamble than purchasing many of the other offerings that are available. I am sure there are other products available that will also be OK for use in the UK, but I would ensure that you sufficiently research your purchase prior to investing your money.

[DSJR]

Looks very neat indeed and inspires confidence. Inevitable servicing should be easy in the future decades too.

[Haselsh1]

First of all I definitely question that validity and value of a warranty that's offered by a manufacturer located in China. Just how much do you think it's going to cost to transport a 28kg amplifier back to China for a repair...? Also, the amplifier I bought was sold to me as being a 230V AC unit. This was clearly bullshit.

Regarding the internal assembly, the Yarland has a valve rectifier but also has SS rectifiers inside and resistors that are doubled or in some cases tripled. The whole thing appeared to be cobbled together in some sort of fashion that almost certainly wouldn't have been in the UK. It was supposed to be dual mono but clearly wasn't. Now I am aware that even the revered Audiolab these days is Chinese but for the majority of valve equipment made in China, I'm not 100% sure these people know what they are doing. Maybe that's why Icon Audio have to put so much effort into modding their amplifiers.

[Techno Commander]

I agree with your point about a warranty being somewhat superficial. Where did you buy your amp from? As I mentioned, many are built as 110/220v and if sold through a "middle man" they are likely to say anything to achieve a sale. Also remember that UK mains can reach 253 volts and still be "within specification". Stuffing this into something designed with a 220 volt transformer is going to cause severe ( approx 15%) overloading of the circuits. The DC heater circuit in a valve amplifier is particularly vulnerable.

[Jason P]

I think it's a case of 'caveat emptor', but don't tar all of their products with the same brush. It would be more appropriate to have a go at the distributors who say stuff is 240 when in fact its not!

I had a Yaqin MC10L. It was fine, never missed a beat, and apparently was 240v (according to the box). Sounded great too. Without getting an engineer involved, I had no way of knowing if this was the case - but it worked flawlessly for the months I had it.

Now I have an Image i65... 30-odd kilos of chi-fi loveliness. Built like a tank, point-to-point wire and decent componentry, all for around £500. It sounds great and I have no qualms about longevity, as any competent tube engineer would be able to fix it...



So not all Chi-Fi is crap, I think there are some genuine bargains to be had...

[lurcher]

First of all I definitely question that validity and value of a warranty that's offered by a manufacturer located in China. Just how much do you think it's going to cost to transport a 28kg amplifier back to China for a repair...? Also, the amplifier I bought was sold to me as being a 230V AC unit. This was clearly bullshit.

Regarding the internal assembly, the Yarland has a valve rectifier but also has SS rectifiers inside and resistors that are doubled or in some cases tripled. The whole thing appeared to be cobbled together in some sort of fashion that almost certainly wouldn't have been in the UK. It was supposed to be dual mono but clearly wasn't. Now I am aware that even the revered Audiolab these days is Chinese but for the majority of valve equipment made in China, I'm not 100% sure these people know what they are doing. Maybe that's why Icon Audio have to put so much effort into modding their amplifiers.

I am not suggesting its not cobbled together, but you would expect to find SS rectifiers in any valve amp that uses DC heating, and often the driver stage is powered by a separate supply that is SS rectified. Having this second supply may be more beneficial that the entire amp using the supply that goes through the valve rectifier. So the presence of SS rectifiers of its self is not a clear indication of a problem.

Likewise running resistors in parallel is a good way of increasing their power handling, and again not itself a problem.

I have seen good and bad amps from China, and some that were both at the same time :-), but I am just saying those two points you mentioned are not what I would use to judge. The most important points are as mentioned before, does the mains transformer primary mean the heater supplies are out of spec, does it mean the power supply caps are over voltage, does it push B+ and anode dissipation beyond their limits, or does it push the reverse voltage rating of any rectifiers beyond their limits. But before that I would check simple things like is it earthed? I have seen them with nothing connected to the earth pin of the iec connector.

I have seen all the above points in the past from imported amps. I have also seen very good Chinese amps.

[hifi_dave]

I have no real beef with Chinese products personally imported. You're all big boys now and should know the score and what you're getting into.

As for 220 volt transformers and our voltage, this is not just relevant for Chinese equipment. Quite a lot of USA manufactured equipment has the same problem becuase it is not worth the companies getting geared up to produce products to work on our 250 volts when they sell so little of it here.

What I object to is the Chinese companies which pretend they are the well established British companies we all know and trust. You have to look long and hard to find any mention of Chinese manufacture behind these names. Surely, if the products were up to the mark they could sell them under their own names ?

Isn't it time these companies were made to state where the products are manufactured ?

[Techno Commander]

Jason: Do you have any more info on the amp you pictured above? It looks most impressive.