Half-a-brain loonies and internet geeks

[sastusbulbas]

I am posting this here as initial response elsewhere seem not to get the point, not sure I do either but bear with me...

Having just read today's Fi Choice, a certain article caught my interest. Internet Geeks.

The point that got me reading was with regard to internet opinion on computer audio, this initial interest was quickly eroded by what I felt was a general opinion/assumption of public forum members and their misguided opinions.

Now I do not claim to know everything, nor do I agree on everything I read on forums (or magazines for that matter), but I did find it slightly belittleing as a forum member to read the opinions of this articles author regarding forum members.

I think the avid magazine reader has came under a lot of flack in recent years for "believing" what is written in magazines, many forum members are completely intolerant of any magazine derived opinion because of exactly the same facts, figures, science, pseudo science, surmising and opinion based reviews many magazine reviewers have given over the years, there always seems to be someone on a forum who can discredit a review or piece of kit and belittle the forum member who mentioned the article. These days there seems to be a lot more forum members willing to slander reviews and their readers than there is anyone backing up review and magazine articles with robust evidence.

Hence my opinion that most of the (claimed by the author of said article) half a brain lunatic bigoted argumentative forum members who spout what may be apparently rubbish are the end result of misinformed and skewed magazine articles which never get defended or have their claims backed up with robust evidence, or seem to have misplaced any common sense and reasons why five years previous such an item may have been detrimental to the system.

So far the only evidence getting any sort of airplay within forums is by people willing to provide what seems like conclusive robust evidence to discredit every forum member (or indeed magazine reviewer) who has made a purchase or fell for the apparent "Foo" claimed in an audio magazine.

I myself feel I am labelled a "Foo" believer on one side of the fence, and a half a brain dimwitted lunatic on the other side, leaving me straddled on an uncomfortable wire fence. I am sure other forum members do.

Until robust evidence is provided and technology sufficiently explained to the average audio purchaser and magazine reader which holds up against argument with technical merit, we will always have dreaded geeks with opinion of no merit due to magazines and AES articles and other engineer based opinion.

How does any regular member of the public defend himself within a public forum with regards to his choice of speaker cable or mains cable when so much foo seems to be abundant, and no clear technical debate is instilled by any subjective magazine review of such, until magazines change their approach what else can we expect to see other than the virulent forum debate spawned by the industries actions.
Of course it is not possible or in the magazines interest to lay bare the truths about any item such as say a cable and it's performance or origins, nor ensure the customer makes the best evaluated choice. ( I guess it is a bit like the way the government lies about the average wage and cost of living to keep a divide between classes)
Magazines and the audio industry should take some of the responsibility, cables and audio supports would be a good start for an area to clean up some of the bull and balance the scales of debate.

Here is one, are all the claims and adverts and reviews of Chord Co Signature speaker cable nothing but hype with no technical merit, and is it true the cable cost pennies from an outsourced supplier? Are customers being ripped off by purchasing 5m pairs of cable for £1200 when it can be sourced elsewhere for £5 per metre?

What about big name companies offering DVD players at ridiculous prices just because of a nice case and badge, with no change at all to the electronics and such?

When ARE the customers interests going to be looked after? With the word Critic in the title I guess some truths had been wrongly expected? I cannot imagine a restaurant reviewer only discussing the good food, pretty sure if something is rubbish or from a packet they are forthcoming with such opinion, is it unfair to expect the same in an audio journal? If no action is taken how can one make complaint against what their own industry has helped create?

Steve

[Primalsea]

I think it all boils down to polarisation. Some articles I have read have just come across as arrogant thinking from an arrogant person. You get the impression that if you agree you are in the club with the good guys and if you don't then you are stupid and incapable of making any sound judgement.

I have been in situations with dealers/manufacturers who do a similar thing. Once at a show I was speaking to a guy was just the most opinionated twat I had ever met. Everything had to be his way or you were stupid. He used squash balls as isolation between layers of his idler TT plinth. I said I use squash balls under my CD player too but I cut them in half. I all got back was a load of crap "Whay would you do that, Air suspensions is the best you can do, blah blah. In the end I just said well if I don't cut them in half my CD player will roll of the F*****G table.

Anyway..

All to often I see posts on forums that rubbish people for owning something and standing by it. These posts often back themselves up by by the poster insulting the ability of the target to make choices about their own equipment.

I'm afraid the shit gets thrown from both sides and has the result of bostering the self importance of some people while insulting others the result is agressive posts from the insulted parties who feel personally under attack. This then leads to shootout and anyone who was on the fence tends to natrually gavitate to the path of least resistance.

At the end of the day many people are no better than the teenage girls who used to fight over if Bross or Brother Beyond was the better band.

[StanleyB]

Reminds me of a sale I had yesterday. The punter cancelled the order because his best mate had never heard of me before.

[muffinman]

I have been in situations with dealers/manufacturers who do a similar thing. Once at a show I was speaking to a guy was just the most opinionated twat I had ever met. Everything had to be his way or you were stupid. He used squash balls as isolation between layers of his idler TT plinth. I said I use squash balls under my CD player too but I cut them in half. I all got back was a load of crap "Whay would you do that, Air suspensions is the best you can do, blah blah. In the end I just said well if I don't cut them in half my CD player will roll of the F*****G table.

I wish, i wish, i wish i was there.
i would have soiled myself

[anthonyTD]

I think it all boils down to polarisation. Some articles I have read have just come across as arrogant thinking from an arrogant person. You get the impression that if you agree you are in the club with the good guys and if you don't then you are stupid and incapable of making any sound judgement.

I have been in situations with dealers/manufacturers who do a similar thing. Once at a show I was speaking to a guy was just the most opinionated twat I had ever met. Everything had to be his way or you were stupid. He used squash balls as isolation between layers of his idler TT plinth. I said I use squash balls under my CD player too but I cut them in half. I all got back was a load of crap "Whay would you do that, Air suspensions is the best you can do, blah blah. In the end I just said well if I don't cut them in half my CD player will roll of the F*****G table.

Anyway..

All to often I see posts on forums that rubbish people for owning something and standing by it. These posts often back themselves up by by the poster insulting the ability of the target to make choices about their own equipment.

I'm afraid the shit gets thrown from both sides and has the result of bostering the self importance of some people while insulting others the result is agressive posts from the insulted parties who feel personally under attack. This then leads to shootout and anyone who was on the fence tends to natrually gavitate to the path of least resistance.

At the end of the day many people are no better than the teenage girls who used to fight over if Bross or Brother Beyond was the better band.

great
reminds me of a guy i used to be involved with [business wise] everything made by him was great, the best thing since sliced bread etc, anything you mentioned you had, or heard from some other manufacturer, was "SHIT" irespective wether he had heard it or not! that was the main reason i had to get away from him, well, that and the small matter of him being a crook! but lets not go there. anyway, i think there is a lot of merit in what is said here, unfortunetly a lot of people dont seem to have the balls, or the faith in their own gut feelings to stand by what their own ears are telling them.. untill they do, i fear they will continue to have their pants taken down, etc, etc...
i hope to be considered as one of those small manufactures out there who considers and respects others opinions, but also having the knowledge to actually be able to provide them with something sonically better for their hard earned cash, not just, well, taking their pants down....
regards,anthony,TD...

[Prince of Darkness]

He used squash balls as isolation between layers of his idler TT plinth.

I've tried this, it's not that good (in my opinion). Better than springs, but I found that just putting wooden blocks in was a lot better. I now use glass marbles.

[Colin]

Just goes to show, I thought most of it was willy waving. Is it really that much different from playground bickering. When it comes to audio equipment the best review, comment, or critical acclaim and box can receive are the one's awarded by your ears. Why worry if your brand is the cheapest, most expensive, or god forbid the latest 5 star award winner from ***** mag.

The Internet certainly can bring out the pack instinct in people, and generate a certain amount of follow the leader. (search for tongue in cheek emoticon failed) Its easy to avoid, just buy a unfashionably bland brand that sounds better than people expect. That way you are either to be pitied, I mean to say he uses Rega or Rotel (its all he can afford you know), Or a fashion conscious wanna be (he uses apple and AVI you know)

[Steve Toy]

There are three approaches to dealing with unwanted energy that interferes with turntables and all other electronic components:

1) Absorb or cushion the energy in something squidgy or containing air like Sorbathane, Vibrapods, squashballs (cut in half or not), inflatable bladders etc.

2) Ground the energy to a heavy mass like slate, granite, a metal cavity filled with sand or a solid lump of wood.

3) Ground the energy quickly to earth.

There is no hard-and-fast rule on this as different mechanical designs respond to different approaches. Generally electronics tend to respond better to 3) whilst turntables and speakers can respond to any one of the above although not all. Beware that approaches 1) and 2) don't kill the dynamics though and make everything sound sloth-like.

In all, Mr Squashballs-are-the-panacea looks a bit of a ****

[Marco]

Just goes to show, I thought most of it was willy waving. Is it really that much different from playground bickering. When it comes to audio equipment the best review, comment, or critical acclaim and box can receive are the one's awarded by your ears. Why worry if your brand is the cheapest, most expensive, or god forbid the latest 5 star award winner from ***** mag.
The Internet certainly can bring out the pack instinct in people, and generate a certain amount of follow the leader. (search for tongue in cheek emoticon failed) Its easy to avoid, just buy a unfashionably bland brand that sounds better than people expect. That way you are either to be pitied, I mean to say he uses Rega or Rotel (its all he can afford you know), Or a fashion conscious wanna be (he uses apple and AVI you know)

Great post, Colin - especially the bit in bold.

It never ceases to amuse me how some (apparently) experienced enthusiasts require the 'crutch' of a favourable magazine review to facilitate their hi-fi buying decisions. It's exactly the same with the scientifically-minded in hi-fi and measurements!

Similarly, on forums and elsewhere, I find it sad (and rather strange) that people allow themselves to become victims of their peers... Be your own man, I say, not a puppet just to be popular!

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

Just goes to show, I thought most of it was willy waving. Is it really that much different from playground bickering. When it comes to audio equipment the best review, comment, or critical acclaim and box can receive are the one's awarded by your ears. Why worry if your brand is the cheapest, most expensive, or god forbid the latest 5 star award winner from ***** mag.

The Internet certainly can bring out the pack instinct in people, and generate a certain amount of follow the leader. (search for tongue in cheek emoticon failed) Its easy to avoid, just buy a unfashionably bland brand that sounds better than people expect. That way you are either to be pitied, I mean to say he uses Rega or Rotel (its all he can afford you know), Or a fashion conscious wanna be (he uses apple and AVI you know)

nail and head comes to mind, well put collin.
anthony,TD...