Passive preamp buzzing?

[Marco]

No, there's as much debate about this as with everything else. On paper a stepped attenuator passive is the most 'truthful'.

I'd contend that, if everything is going in its favour, in terms of it optimally matching the system it's going to be used with (as I've outlined), then a stepped attenuator passive is the most 'truthful', but not ultimately as much for me as the BEST active designs, which can be hugely expensive in comparison.

Marco.

[Arkless Electronics]

I've never noticed any lack of drive, slam or dynamics when using a passive... nor is it technically possible for there to be any such loss! (sounds like symptoms of needing to turn the volume up to me!). A passive attenuator is about the most perfect item, technically speaking, in a hi fi system and has near as damn it no distortion, no noise and a perfectly flat frequency response with no ringing etc from DC to 100KHz + It's a "straight wire with loss"! Like it said in the film, maybe some people "can't handle the truth"

[Marco]

Hi Oliver,

I see what you're saying Jez. In all honesty, the GP was a wow moment after my pre, plugging the avc in is more of a subtle Change. Pretty much instantly, I felt the AVC was more natural in its presentation of tone and this was confirmed over about 10 different tracks, the bass in fuller and driven and the treble has a bit more depth to it. I really like the AVC. It's my favourite of the three in my system.

Interesting, and I totally get where you're coming from, as it's largely what I heard too, for precisely the reasons I've just explained.

The AVC, for me, doesn't have the overall resolution of the Goldpoint, in terms of that 'stripping of veils' and 'hearing right into the music', but it does make some stuff sound more tonally convincing, and has a bit more 'drive' (such as you've noticed with drums).

Therefore, ultimately like any other piece of kit, it's all down to what YOU prefer and what matches best with your system

One thing I would say is that I can assure you the GP didn't possess the qualities you appreciate and recognise now, when it was in stock form, until my mate Duncan (tubehunter) rewired the switches, to shorten the signal path (for details, see the thread I started on the Goldpoint), and afterwards when the series resistors were upgraded to Z-foils.

The stock unit, for me, was a huge let down [sounding rather veiled and lacklustre], the opposite from what it does now, and would've been punted on almost immediately, had Duncan not done to it what he did.

Marco.

[Bigman80]

I've never noticed any lack of drive, slam or dynamics when using a passive... nor is it technically possible for there to be any such loss! (sounds like symptoms of needing to turn the volume up to me!). A passive attenuator is about the most perfect item, technically speaking, in a hi fi system and has near as damn it no distortion, no noise and a perfectly flat frequency response with no ringing etc from DC to 100KHz + It's a "straight wire with loss"! Like it said in the film, maybe some people "can't handle the truth"

Trust me Jez, the volume was up lol.

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[Macca]

I've never noticed any lack of drive, slam or dynamics when using a passive... nor is it technically possible for there to be any such loss! (sounds like symptoms of needing to turn the volume up to me!). :

Agree. With a passive you can bang the spl right up without any of the shout or glare you will get from anything but the best active preamps. Maybe if you only listen at background level you'll prefer an active for that reason. Although if you only ever listen at that level it isn't really worth bothering with a proper hi fi in the first place.

[Bigman80]

Hi Oliver,



Interesting, and I totally get where you're coming from, as it's largely what I heard too, for precisely the reasons I've just explained.

The AVC, for me, doesn't have the overall resolution of the Goldpoint, in terms of that 'stripping of veils' and 'hearing right into' the music, but it does make some stuff sound more tonally convincing, and has a bit more 'drive' (such as you've noticed with drums).

Therefore, ultimately like any other piece of kit, it's all down to what YOU prefer and what matches best with your system

One thing I would say is that I can assure you the GP didn't possess the qualities you appreciate and recognise in it now, when it was in stock form, until my mate Duncan (tubehunter) rewired the switches, to shorten the signal path (for details, see the thread I started on the Goldpoint), and afterwards when the series resistors were upgraded to Z-foils.

The stock unit, for me, was a huge let down [sounding rather veiled and lacklustre], the opposite from what it does now, and would've been punted on almost immediately, had Duncan not done to it what he did.

Marco.

That's a good point well made there. It's all personal preference. It's a difficult choice between Ultimate resolution and tonal accuracy. Surely there must be something that provides both!!!! Probably not.

Its a quality item, the GP. No doubt and iME the less wire the better. No PCB is better and silver usually outperforms copper wire. You've done good things to the GP, Marco. Shaman was wise to pick it up. I'm gonna get him round for a listen to both hopefully. See what he thinks.

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[Marco]

I've never noticed any lack of drive, slam or dynamics when using a passive... nor is it technically possible for there to be any such loss! (sounds like symptoms of needing to turn the volume up to me!). A passive attenuator is about the most perfect item, technically speaking, in a hi fi system and has near as damn it no distortion, no noise and a perfectly flat frequency response with no ringing etc from DC to 100KHz + It's a "straight wire with loss"! Like it said in the film, maybe some people "can't handle the truth"

Lol, not at all, Jez. It should be patently obvious by now the type of presentation I favour from the equipment I use. Undoubtedly, to my ears, the BEST active preamps make music sound more lifelike, but that's not to say that the BEST passives lack drive or dynamics, per se. They don't. They just do in comparison, to my ears, with said actives, when that bar has been raised sufficiently high enough.

It's not something I can elucidate in words. I'd have to demonstrate it. So, one day, if you ever visit, or we're at NEBO again, you bring your passive with you and we'll compare it to the Croft, and we'll see if I can successfully demonstrate to you what I mean

Trust me, the WHOLE reason why I investigated in such depth into passives, and spent the money I did on modifying the Goldpoint, and also listening to various other examples of passive preamps in different systems, was because I completely understood why they're notionally 'perfect for audio use', and so me being me (always seeking to obtain the most 'truthful' sound), I wanted to improve that element of my system, and subsequently make it more 'accurate', by using a passive.

It's a shame, however, that in the REAL world (as opposed to the theoretical one), it didn't quite work out that way, which is why I've returned to the Croft, and now ticked off passives from my 'bucket list'

Marco.

[Marco]

Agree. With a passive you can bang the spl right up without any of the shout or glare you will get from anything but the best active preamps.

You've heard the Croft on a couple of occasions, Martin. which I can assure you is integral to how my system sounds, so you'll know where I'm coming from in terms of what the best active (valve) preamps can do

Marco.

[walpurgis]

The AVC DOES seem to be richer, maybe sweeter and yes i'd echo that it has an element of "valve" midrange BUT i have valves in my Phonostage and my monoblocks so is it the AVC or is it just revealing the tonal qualities i set out to achieve when i bought them?

That's what I find with the TVC units.

There's more 'heft' to the sound, definitely better mid transparency and very accurate detail. I get no top end brightness either. In my system, the impression is as if there is no pre-amp and nothing is in the way of the music.

There are nay-sayers. But they've not used AVC's or TVC's to any great extent that I'm aware of. Some will not even try one 'co it has to be wrong'. Well perhaps that principle is wrong? I say at least give one a spin and see!

[Bigman80]

That's what I find with the TVC units.

There's more 'heft' to the sound, definitely better mid transparency and very accurate detail. I get no top end brightness either. In my system, it's there is no pre-amp and nothing is in the way of the music.

There are nay-sayers. But they've not used AVC's or TVC's to any great extent that I'm aware of. Some will not even try one 'co it has to be wrong'. Well perhaps that principle is wrong? I say at least give one a spin and see!

Well, I am definitely free of pre judgement <see what I did lol.

I like it, excellent resolution, timbre and filigree. Can't argue with its qualities, just need a bit of time to see the negative side, if any.

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