This crazy world of witch hunts...

[farflungstar]

I was listening to any answers today on radio 4 and this was the main topic. Of 3 women who called re wolf whistling one liked it, one didn't really have an opinion, the third didn't like it. Pretty balanced. But when a woman caller mentioned that she'd seen female work colleagues sexually harassing v male colleagues on numerous occasions it was acknowledged but not explored, where as a woman caller was encouraged to talk by about her sexual harassment. Let's be honest - this debate will not be balanced.

[farflungstar]

In my opinion this is a symptom of a much bigger issue and one in which the media is absolutely complicit along with the fashion industry. They've made it their job to sell sex, and aided in the sexualisation of kids.

The feminist brigade are hypocritical - they laude stars such as Beyonce as female icons - someone who dresses in as little as possible on stage and shakes her ass and t*ts in the faces of male audience members. (Surely sexual harassment). Kids copy her style and actions - meanwhile boys watch vile porn on their mobiles where women wearing the same clothes and behaving in the same way are victimised by men. WTF. How are the next generation supposed to know how to interact appropriately?

I've had this discussion in class on many occasions - girls always say the same, it is their right to dress and behave like a whore if they wish - but not for a man to respond. I find the argument flawed and thank God I'm gay where the rules are a little more clear cut.

[Len Co]

I've had this discussion in class on many occasions - girls always say the same, it is their right to dress and behave like a whore if they wish - but not for a man to respond. I find the argument flawed and thank God I'm gay where the rules are a little more clear cut.

I've had this clothing discussion with my wife several times - some (a lot actually) of girls and women wear such tight leggings and jeans that there is little left to the imagination, ditto low-cut and tight tops, and ultra-short skirts. Teenage schoolgirls walking down my road have skirts at least half-way up their thighs. Of course it's their right but they should realise that boys and men find that very attractive and provocative and might generate an inappropriate or offensive response.
If men paraded down the high street in ballet tights with their 'lunch boxes' on full view that would undoubtedly be labelled disgusting and probably classed as harassment.i agree this debate will never be balanced, it is overflowing with PC and the moral high ground and takes no account of normal human wiring.
Of course I in no way condone rape or sexual harassment but this dress thing does perplex me. Seems like ladies want to show themselves off and be ignored simultaneously. (My wife has no answer by the way)

[karma67]

thank God I'm gay .

oh the ironie,there's a 40 page thread right there

[farflungstar]

I am neither sexist or a mysogonist - I rant at my female students everytime they say mis padres (my fathers and not parents) mis hijos (my son's refering to daughters) etc. Spain is terrible that way. Women should have 'exactly' the same rights as men, period. But no more than men - it should be balanced and equal - and honest.

Stop the porn industry, stop Vogue etc promoting women as nothing more than meat and stop the fashion industry from putting it into stores. Then we can say that yes, how a woman dresses has no negative impact on them.

No one should ever violate a woman's right to say no - but equally Beyonce or anyone else should not be allowed to titillate men through their dress or behaviour then cry victimisation. It has to be balanced.

[Macca]

Make burkahs compulsory? That is Islam's answer to the problem.

it isn't a world I would want to live in.

Women dress to impress other women, not to impress men. Okay sometimes they want to impress men, or a specific man, but they don't want any bother from the men they are not trying to impress. If that sounds like they are trying to have their cake and eat it then I'd suggest re-assessing your viewpoint. They should have that right.

I think that blaming the porn industry or the fashion industry for male sexual harassment makes no sense. Men were harassing women long before those industries existed. In fact women have demonstrably had a much harder time of it in history than they do now. Like blaming TV and video games for violence, as though it had never occurred to anyone to use violence before they were invented.

It is always going to happen to an extent and legislation will not prevent it just like it does not prevent robbery or drug dealing or drink driving. The best we can hope for is that there is maintained a climate where it is culturally unacceptable, since that at least will deter the majority of potential offenders. I think we do have that climate currently, at least in the West.

[farflungstar]

Make burkahs compulsory? That is Islam's answer to the problem.

it isn't a world I would want to live in.

Women dress to impress other women, not to impress men. Okay sometimes they want to impress men, or a specific man, but they don't want any bother from the men they are not trying to impress. If that sounds like they are trying to have their cake an eat it then I'd suggest re-assessing your viewpoint. They should have that right.

I think that blaming the porn industry or the fashion industry for male sexual harassment makes no sense. Men were harassing women long before those industries existed. In fact women have demonstrably had a much harder time of it in history than they do now. Like blaming TV and video games for violence, as though it had never occurred to anyone to use violence before they were invented.

It is always going to happen to an extent and legislation will not prevent it just like it does not prevent robbery or drug dealing or drink driving. The best we can hope for is that there is maintained a climate where it is culturally unacceptable, since that at least will deter the majority of potential offenders. I think we do have that climate currently, at least in the West.

I agree in part - but go down a dodgy area waving your Rolex around and you're asking fur trouble. Likewise putting your bits on display or behaving a certain way will attract certain types of men and trouble. Turning a blind eye to the effects of porn on the internet isn't wise, many studies of school kids have shown that boys think its normal to treat other girls the same way - wth no respect.

[Tim]

I think that blaming the porn industry or the fashion industry for male sexual harassment makes no sense.

Absolutely Martin.

I'm also surprised (well maybe not) at how many here are still living in caves, amazing how they get the electrickery in there to listen to their Hi-Fi and surf the net.

[struth]

I agree in part - but go down a dodgy area waving your Rolex around and you're asking fur trouble. Likewise putting your bits on display or behaving a certain way will attract certain types of men and trouble. Turning a blind eye to the effects of porn on the internet isn't wise, many studies of school kids have shown that boys think its normal to treat other girls the same way - wth no respect.

There will always be some who act that way but the industry does provide a service of sorts and overall probably prevents more than it causes. Banning just puts it underground and opens folk up to blackmail etc. Like prostitution it's not going to die out

[Macca]

I agree in part - but go down a dodgy area waving your Rolex around and you're asking fur trouble. Likewise putting your bits on display or behaving a certain way will attract certain types of men and trouble. Turning a blind eye to the effects of porn on the internet isn't wise, many studies of school kids have shown that boys think its normal to treat other girls the same way - wth no respect.

Again that assumes that prior to internet pornography men treated women with respect and the problem only started when the porn became available. Since that is demonstrably untrue I would question that there is any causal relationship, or at least that there is any proof of such. IME these 'studies' tend to show what the people conducting them/paying for them want them to show. For example there is a few studies that claim to show that incidences of rape and sexual assault have gone down significantly since access to hard core porn became universal. Guess who paid for those?

Maybe the problem started with the Romans, they liked their porno? But then so did earlier civilisations like your Minoans, Greeks, Indus Valley mob and so on. Loads of pre-historic 'mother earth' statues in the British Museum. Ironically we still have no idea if the makers of these statues displayed them on the mantelpiece or hid them under the bed.